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Thread: Project: El G.

  1. #1
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    Project: El G.

    Well after lusting after all the El Guapos comming through our shop lately I began losing sleep over the thought of a tricked out Blue El G. After riding about every demo bike we have I have found that nothing speaks to me like a 6" bike does........especially one that pedals well, jumps well and can rail corners like a shifter cart. I swapped parts from my current bike with the addition to a couple more goodies to throw in the mix. I must appologize about the poor lighting on the photo, I finished the build late yesterday after work and was jonesing to put it through it's paces today and I brought along the camera for a "nature shot" so the El G would be in it's right element but there was a ton of overcast. I will post more photos once the sun comes out and rest assured i will post some action shots soon, and give a full ride report. Ride On- E2 eric@competitivecyclist.com

    P.S. I'm not sure if you can tell from the photos but I did some alternate cable routing because those darn side mount cable stops kept raking my knee.
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  2. #2
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    DROOOOOOOL...

    ya, what's up with the sucky cable routing anyway? Who thought THAT was a good idea?

    BTW, why not run the cables just like the Ml, under the top tube?
    Last edited by Jwind; 07-01-2007 at 06:00 PM.

  3. #3
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    I Love, Love, Love It!!!!!

    Looks absolutely sick! I dig the white rims HARD!

    Kick ass cable routing too.... That puts my mind a little more at ease should I be able to pick one of these bad boy's up one day.

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    Sensational Eric

    El Guapo stoke.

    I think Blackey likes it

    That Lyric is a great choice. I just rode that mission control fork yesterday on a mate's bike. His bike was a big letdown but his fork wasn't

    Looking forward to some more photos !~!

    Cheers
    AM

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain
    Sensational Eric

    El Guapo stoke.

    I think Blackey likes it

    That Lyric is a great choice. I just rode that mission control fork yesterday on a mate's bike. His bike was a big letdown but his fork wasn't

    Looking forward to some more photos !~!

    Cheers
    AM

    Don't stick your tongue out at me!!!!

  6. #6
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    Nice! What does it weigh? Do you get any chain slap w/o a protector?

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    weight/chainslap

    30.86lbs, before installing the seat, so now i would guess around 31.25ish, I'm going to install a coil shock in the rear soon. As for the chainslap.......of course, but I wasn't too worried about it I was too anxious to ride!
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    Wow that's pretty light. I like the blue spokes and pedals, looks sweet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by presslab
    Wow that's pretty light. I like the blue spokes and pedals, looks sweet.
    Nice weight!

    Are those the Straitline pedals? They look great!
    Extreme stationary biker.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain
    I just rode that mission control fork yesterday on a mate's bike. His bike was a big letdown but his fork wasn't
    AM

    What bike? Why the letdown?
    Extreme stationary biker.

  11. #11
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    Dang, Eric...

    That's a gorgeous ride. I have never liked that blue color... Until I saw your build. White makes a HUGE difference with that blue.

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    Pedals are from Twenty6 products........you may have seen them in this months Decline mag. The pedals themselves are truely awesome 375g for the pair, Ti axles fully rebuildable, tons of pin placement options as well. As for the weight i was pretty shocked myself, hell if I went tubeless I could save a bit more. I'm goping to order a DHX coil for it.....the Pearl shock just ramps up too quickly, I am still 1/2 an inch from blowing the o-ring off the slider, with 30% sag and a couple of jump and drops. I'm hoping this thing will be even better with the coil, all in all so far it rocks!
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    Quote Originally Posted by E2@CC
    .... I'm goping to order a DHX coil for it.....the Pearl shock just ramps up too quickly, I am still 1/2 an inch from blowing the o-ring off the slider, with 30% sag and a couple of jump and drops. I'm hoping this thing will be even better with the coil, all in all so far it rocks!
    In the mean time and in between time mount the Pearl in the coil position (if you haven't done so already).

    And, it would be good to see what the real difference is.

    Have you tried the Twenty6 Dualie Brake Lever ?~? Any better than DB lever ?~?

  14. #14
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    Awesome ride, Eric!

    Very sweet build....

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain
    In the mean time and in between time mount the Pearl in the coil position (if you haven't done so already).
    That'd make an air shock to use even less travel. There should be more ramp up at the end for the coil not to bottom bad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    That'd make an air shock to use even less travel. There should be more ramp up at the end for the coil not to bottom bad.
    Yeah I know, just wanted to see just how much of a difference it would be. My own personal agenda .

  17. #17
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    Good job!

    Eric, looks sweet, just email your team re inquiring about a demo of the El G. Am in St Louis for 2 weeks, starting next week. So am keen to try one, then I may well be able to place an order for a Ti El G....

    AM, fess up about the bike you didnt enjoy, your amongst friends, was it a Turner....

    I still think they should change the name from El G to El Caribou....... Would sell far more.
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain
    In the mean time and in between time mount the Pearl in the coil position (if you haven't done so already).

    And, it would be good to see what the real difference is.

    Have you tried the Twenty6 Dualie Brake Lever ?~? Any better than DB lever ?~?
    I've got the dualies on both my bikes. If you look close at the picture you can see them.........they're polished prototypes for the Formula brakes. I'll tinker with the pivot placement and let you know my findings.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    AM, fess up about the bike you didnt enjoy, your amongst friends, was it a Turner....

    I second that. There's plenty of good reviews around here. Personally if I wanted gum drops and pixy dust, I'd sit down on the crapper and grab an issue of MBA.

    Negative reviews are the most informative IMO.


    OUT WITH IT.

  20. #20
    the 36 year old grom
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    what didn't you like about the guapo??

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    couple more photos

    I'll post the review tonight when I have time to type more.
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  22. #22
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    Looking good Eric..... Have a demo coming from CC next weekend, to get a real grasp on the El G..... Am worried the Pearl will spoil the ride.... But looking forward to a weekend on a El G

    Look forward to reading your review later
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

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    Yeah Whafe, I think Ryan (our demo manager) got the bike cleaned and ready for you.........keep in mind that the Pearl does ramp up quite a lot at the end of the stroke, don't let that deter you from the overall ride. You may want to set the sag around 20% rather than the 30% I'm running and that will probably give the rear a better feel and back off on the Gate knob a bit, I'm running only 2 clicks on mine from full off.....I'm still waiting on my coil shock, hopefully it will be here next week enjoy the demo!
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  24. #24
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    Sweet, those grips are rad. Lookin good man. Now ditch that shock and get a "Man's" shock on there.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by E2@CC
    Yeah Whafe, I think Ryan (our demo manager) got the bike cleaned and ready for you.........keep in mind that the Pearl does ramp up quite a lot at the end of the stroke, don't let that deter you from the overall ride. You may want to set the sag around 20% rather than the 30% I'm running and that will probably give the rear a better feel and back off on the Gate knob a bit, I'm running only 2 clicks on mine from full off.....I'm still waiting on my coil shock, hopefully it will be here next week enjoy the demo!
    Sweet to hear Eric, the whole crew there have been awesome to deal with for this demo. Total cool cats..... Thanks for the word on the shock, am not going to let that deter me in any way from the bike, shocks can be changed, well as you are really....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  26. #26
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    Ultra-sharp looking Guapo you got there. I've been wanting to see some pics of the baby blue. The white bits really set it off. You need a white fork . Not sure about the mismatched turquoise grips and ano blue pedals. Maybe they look better in person. Otherwise, stunning. Edit: Now I see the blue ano spokes..... that ties in the pedals nicely. Schweet.

    Anxious to hear your ride report. Also looking forward to hearing what you have to say about your demo Whafe.
    Last edited by KRob; 07-17-2007 at 11:09 PM.
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    Ride report time:

    Here it is guys:
    First impression is the bike feels like you could nail any line you want to, whether it be steep or hitting a double at the jump trails, to nailing a skinny log ride. I've logged a few rides on it now in conditions ranging from singletrack to jumping off loading docks and scouring the new construction sites around my house to find piles of dirt, and ride rocky steep lines.
    I'm very impressed with the ride so far-nothing I would want to change (aside from the rear shock). On climbs the bike tracks very well even if I leave the front end at 160mm and don't use the travel adjust it hasn't felt as though the front would want to lift unwantingly. On the straight away sections of trail or with a slight transition you can tug the bars-lean back-and cover the rear brake because when you want it to, the front end will loft easily. With the lower BB height than I'm used to I find that I need to be more cautious about pedal strikes when hammering along on the flats (our trails here are littered with rocks and roots) this is both a positive and a negative. Positive because it rails corners easier and creates a super stable ride, and makes for some rock solid flight patterns. It's a negative becuase of the pedal strikes but once I get used to it it will be much better and I probably won't see it as a negative anymore.

    Overall trail performance is like you were riding a bike that was hardwired directly to your brain. Seriously. Slight shifts in body position don't seem to upset the rear end at all, I think this is due in large part to the lower leverage ratio on the bike. Point it where you want to go and it changes direction like a cat on carpet. I've taken a few sizeable drops and jumped a couple sets of stairs and the bike feels like it could take WAY more than what I've dished out to it so far. Riding position seems to be very centered on the bike when using a non setback seat post. Bunnyhops on this thing can't quite compare to bunnyhopping a DJ bike but the thing certainly does leap off of the ground with relatively little effort. Braking on a descent with tons of stutter bumps doesn't seem to make the rear end loose traction one bit, after you're braking on the descent load the suspension and get ready for the next turn, this thing will rocket you out of the corner and go directly where you point it. You almost have to ride this thing with reckless abandon to realize it's true potential as both a trail bike capable of tackling any terrain around, or a hucker bike. I need to get a chance to take this thing over a couple double jumps and see how she flies, but so far bump jumping roots,rocks, and curbs the thing feels very settled in the air. I even nailed a small wallride on it today......impressive!
    I will give another review when I get the coil on the rear and I'm sure it will feel way better than it already does. If you're in the market for a new 6" bike this thing needs to be on your very short list (and near the top, if not the TOP ) I don't want to make this too long so i'll stop for now, if you guys have any questions fire away! Ride On-E2
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  28. #28
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    whoa! that thing looks fantastic!

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    Looking good Eric..... Have a demo coming from CC next weekend, to get a real grasp on the El G..... Am worried the Pearl will spoil the ride.... But looking forward to a weekend on a El G

    Look forward to reading your review later
    Whafe, that is exactly what I was thinking when I test ride an EG... but after my short ride, the pearl is not that bad after all ..

  30. #30
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    E2@cc, you got a really great looking bike cool color combi

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    Thanks for the report E2.

    I like the idea of a little more active rear suspension when pedalling and braking compared to my 6.6... but I do love how the 6.6 stiffens up when I stand and hammer.

    How does the EG do with standing and hammering?

    Thanks. Looking forward to the coil review. Are you going to Push the DHX?
    Last edited by KRob; 07-09-2007 at 05:17 PM.
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    KRob

    Quote Originally Posted by KRob
    Thanks for the report E2.

    I like the idea of a little more active rear suspension when pedalling and braking compared to my 6.6... but I do love how the way the 6.6 stiffens up when I stand and hammer.

    How does the EG do with standing and hammering?

    Thanks. Looking forward to the coil review. Are you going to Push the DHX?

    Agreed--------nothing stiffens up under power better than a well designed VPP (after all it's pretty reliant on chain torque to give it the stiff ride) which is why some people complain about pedal kickback and what not . As far as I can tell there seems to be more movement under hard out of the saddle efforts (at least that's what the Pearl is telling me each time it screeches under compression) I wouldn't say it moves too much or that it's robbing me of any power output. I will say this though, it bunnyhops a lot easier than my 6.6 does, there is no need to run a crazy fast rebound to boost off the ground. As for pushing the DHX, I'm not sure if I will go that route-at least not right from the gun, I want to spend a few hours and get it dialed first then decide if it's worth the dinero to get it done. Expect a ful ride report once the coil is on, and some action shots should be following shortly as well. Ride On-E2
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    Fyi

    Just so you guys know I just got off of the phone with Titus and they informed me that use of the upper hole isn't going to work on the coil shock. Why you ask? Because the upper hole would yield a little different eye to eye measurement. The coil shock will use the same hole, and may require more bottom out resistance than the air shock would. Hopefully my shock will be in this week and I'll let you know how everything turns out. The guys @ Titus were impressed with the way the Guapo rides with the coil shock (rumor has it they have been testing it extensively) Ride On-E2
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by E2@CC
    ...Because the upper hole would yield a little different eye to eye measurement. The coil shock will use the same hole, and may require more bottom out resistance than the air shock would...
    Extreme stationary biker.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    geolovechild.... mommy doesn't let you use the 2nd hole?

  36. #36
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    Upper hole was designed around a prototype FOX shock. The upper hole will not be used at all now. The forward path of the seatstays would cause very slight contact with the under side of the top tube when in the upper mount position.
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    geolovechild.... mommy doesn't let you use the 2nd hole?
    Yeah, you don't ask, you just use it and post the results...
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    geolovechild.... mommy doesn't let you use the 2nd hole?
    LMFAO

    Sheesh DS, am in a meeting, just lost it with laughter......
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    Yeah, you don't ask, you just use it and post the results...
    Well the result I know is "no Babies"
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    Well the result I know is "no Babies"
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  41. #41
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    I've been using the 2nd hole, hittin it hard too!!

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    geolovechild.... mommy doesn't let you use the 2nd hole?
    Lots of things are now off-limits now that we are married...

    Now there is another reason to not get married....and not get an El Guapoo....2nd hole is no-go.
    Extreme stationary biker.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    Lots of things are now off-limits now that we are married...
    What?? Your wife does not allow you to have more caribou??

    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    Now there is another reason to not get married....and not get an El Guapoo....2nd hole is no-go.
    You just gotta find the right e2e shock with a slightly shorter stroke and you're golden... Eric didn't mention if the e2e on the upper hole is longer or shorter (I may think it's longer), so maybe you just need the right shock.

    There's always Push...
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    You just gotta find the right e2e shock with a slightly shorter stroke and you're golden... Eric didn't mention if the e2e on the upper hole is longer or shorter (I may think it's longer), so maybe you just need the right shock.

    There's always Push...
    Are you still talking about my wife here????
    Extreme stationary biker.

  45. #45
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    Lets stick to the muddy trails on our mountain bikes you guys, sheesh.......The forbidden trail is not one that is riddenn that often..........
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    Lets stick to the muddy trails on our mountain bikes you guys, sheesh.......The forbidden trail is not one that is riddenn that often..........
    Forbidden trail is muddy...


    Geo... I was talking 'bout the bike...
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  47. #47
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    [QUOTE=Warp]Forbidden trail is muddy... QUOTE]

    I always go with the addage of "no babies" for me it didnt work just the once.....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  48. #48
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    Eric...

    Can you put deep headset cup on the El Guapo?? Any reaming to do or is the frame prepared?
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    A little clarification...

    Quote Originally Posted by E2@CC
    Upper hole was designed around a prototype FOX shock. The upper hole will not be used at all now. The forward path of the seatstays would cause very slight contact with the under side of the top tube when in the upper mount position.
    Hi,

    I wanted to take a moment to clarify some of the comments that were made by Eric regarding the use of a coil-over shock and the El Guapo.

    First I would like to briefly explain the original design goal of using two different rocker positions. The lower hole was designed to offer a more linear spring rate to compensate for the progressive nature of air sprung shocks. The upper hole placement was to create a more progressive spring rate because of the linear nature of a coil shock. Both rocker positions allow for 155mm of travel.

    Now with regards to the use of the second, “coil”, rocker position, we have seen a few cases in where manufacturing tolerances have not been maintained and in extreme cases the yoke of the upper swing arm has made contact with the top tube at full compression. This is not a wide spread situation, but something we have recently become aware of.

    What does this mean to you? Well, first of all it is by no means a cause of panic. We’ve gone back and re-examined the suspension design of the El Guapo. Along the way we have learned that two different shock mounting positions for air and coil is really an idea that was spawned from the early years of suspension when the shocks were not a technically advanced as they are now. The majority of coil shocks these days have so many adjustments including a bottom out adjustment which negates the need for a progressive ‘coil’ rocker mount. Because of these shock features, you can safely use a coil shock in the “Air” position without any adverse effects. As a matter of fact I just returned from a three day trip to Whistler with the El Guapo and two of the three days I ran a DHX coil in the “Air” setting and the bike behaved beautifully.

    As I mentioned earlier, this is not really a cause for panic. We just want to be cautious to make sure that you don’t damage your frame. As always, please feel free to contact me if you have any further questions.

    Thanks.

    Jeff


    Jeff Titone
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    Titus Cycles
    800.858.4887 x.15
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  50. #50
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    You went to whizzler without a Zoke Roco

    Is it 155 mm travel or 160 mm travel as per website quick specs ?~?

    Second hole will be deleted for 08 ?~?

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    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain
    You went to whizzler without a Zoke Roco

    Is it 155 mm travel or 160 mm travel as per website quick specs ?~?

    Second hole will be deleted for 08 ?~?
    The DHX is really nice and no one has shared the Zoke cool-aid with me so I don't know what I am supposedly missing. 155mm according to our actual engineering drawing. 160mm is website typo which will be fixed shortly. The second hole will not be deleted as we believe in our design philosophy of having two separate shock positions. My previous point was just to show that you can safely run a coil in the "air" setting and not suffer and performance losses from the suspension. We have corrected the hard point placements to allow for a greater variance in manufacturing tolerance so that there is zero chance for this potential interference issue for 2008 models.

  52. #52
    the 36 year old grom
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    I've got no stokie for Zokie.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain
    We ain't got any cool-aid like the Homers do... but Warp can serve up a good taco
    All original Tacos, tamales, gorditas, etc...
    Check my Site

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    All original Tacos, tamales, gorditas, etc...
    Do you know how to make Mexi-melts? I bet your granny taught you how even better than Taco Bell?

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    All original Tacos, tamales, gorditas, etc...
    Yummy! Tamales! Hows about some Carnitas!

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    Do you know how to make Mexi-melts? I bet your granny taught you how even better than Taco Bell?
    Check my Site

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65
    Yummy! Tamales! Hows about some Carnitas!
    Estilo Michoacan!!
    Check my Site

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    Estilo Michoacan!!
    I'll take them and I will enjoy them! Please send them right away!

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    Estilo Michoacan!!
    So, the pork is baked and not fried? That is the style?

  60. #60
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    How about a pic or two of the rear tire clearence (chain and seat stay) and maybe a few real-world measurements on the BB height and seat/head tube angles??? Please!
    Nothing to see here.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titus Jeff
    we have seen a few cases in where manufacturing tolerances have not been maintained and in extreme cases the yoke of the upper swing arm has made contact with the top tube at full compression.
    This is nothing unique to Titus frames....


  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain
    Mate, you need Zoke Stoke, it's guaranteed to pleasure.
    It's worth trying out, Jeff, if you can. I'd love to hear a comparison between the DHX 5 Coil and the Roco (TST or WC).

    I've got the Roco TST in my Quasi now, with the linkage plugged into the "air" pivot, and it works very, very, very, well.

    With my 4 yr old Fox Vanilla RC coil there was a disctinct bipolar nature to the bike. Slow-speed stuff were tight and controlled, and at about 15 mph the machine transformed into a very smooth trail eater. With the Roco, there is not so much of an obvious change and the bike feels like it smoothly translates according to speed and terrain.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    Eric...

    Can you put deep headset cup on the El Guapo?? Any reaming to do or is the frame prepared?

    King Steelset? I guess this what you are referring to. Yes-- and the headtube needs no additional reaming in order to accomplish this either. As for the frame being prepared, we face all headtubes and BB shells that leave our store.
    Don't drink it

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSINGA
    How about a pic or two of the rear tire clearence (chain and seat stay) and maybe a few real-world measurements on the BB height and seat/head tube angles??? Please!
    My BB is just under 13.25", and that's with 2.35 Kenda Small Block 8's. I'll measure the angles later when I get a chance, but I'm sure the headangle comes to around 66, maybe 66.5 degrees. I'll get back with you on seattube angles.
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  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by E2@CC
    My BB is just under 13.25", and that's with 2.35 Kenda Small Block 8's. I'll measure the angles later when I get a chance, but I'm sure the headangle comes to around 66, maybe 66.5 degrees. I'll get back with you on seattube angles.
    Thanks for the info.

    13.25" - is that ground to bottom of BB shell?
    Nothing to see here.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSINGA
    Thanks for the info.

    13.25" - is that ground to bottom of BB shell?
    Nope it's Floor to center of crankarm spindle.
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  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by E2@CC
    Nope it's Floor to center of crankarm spindle.
    whoa! Check my math here. So if you subtract the length of a std 175mm crank arm you only have 6.36" (+/-) of ground clearance?? Take away 2" of sag and you're down to 4.36. Then subtract full compression of the remaining 4" and you have .36"

    Better make sure you land jumps and drops with your cranks parallel to the ground!
    Nothing to see here.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSINGA
    Better make sure you land jumps and drops with your cranks parallel to the ground!
    Not to worry, the El Guapoo was spec'd with a Pearl...obviously this bike was not meant for jumps and drops...
    Extreme stationary biker.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    Not to worry, the El Guapoo was spec'd with a Pearl...obviously this bike was not meant for jumps and drops...
    LOL!! strange spec for sure.
    Nothing to see here.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSINGA
    whoa! Check my math here. So if you subtract the length of a std 175mm crank arm you only have 6.36" (+/-) of ground clearance?? Take away 2" of sag and you're down to 4.36. Then subtract full compression of the remaining 4" and you have .36"

    Better make sure you land jumps and drops with your cranks parallel to the ground!

    Sure.........there's really no other proper way to land. Take the Intense M3 for instance 9" of travel and 14.125" BB height. 3" sag for proper ride qualities of a DH rig. I have said before that I've had to be aware of pedaling through corners on this bike or the pedal hits, but the lower BB lets you rail corners easier.
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  71. #71
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    Will tell you Peeps on Saturday how this puppy lands....SSINGA, really not good landing either way, without the cranks straight so to speak....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSINGA
    whoa! Check my math here. So if you subtract the length of a std 175mm crank arm you only have 6.36" (+/-) of ground clearance?? Take away 2" of sag and you're down to 4.36. Then subtract full compression of the remaining 4" and you have .36"

    Better make sure you land jumps and drops with your cranks parallel to the ground!
    I measured about 13.7-13.8 with my 2.4s and i'd say that the 13.8 inch BB spec is acurate with the nevegal 2.5 tires that all the demo bikes had on them..... which makes sense to me. so what you got is a frame geomtry that is actually designed for the way people are going to set up the bike. i.e. big tires and a bigger fork.

  73. #73
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    That BB hieght does seem really low, but I think that might be cool. The head angle though? Are you sure about that? Did I hear you corectly that you said 65-66 DEGREES? That can't be right?


    I think I'm gonna go out on my ML (about 14.25 BB hieght) and try to land a drop with my pedals strait up and down... I just want to see if I would requier a leg brace or one of those casts that go up your ebtire leg?

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    I measured about 13.7-13.8 with my 2.4s and i'd say that the 13.8 inch BB spec is acurate with the nevegal 2.5 tires that all the demo bikes had on them..... which makes sense to me. so what you got is a frame geomtry that is actually designed for the way people are going to set up the bike. i.e. big tires and a bigger fork.

    Good concept!

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    Good concept!
    I've kept my ML pretty low. but a lot of you guys. you and AM and (FM) for example, had jacked your MLs up with big tires and Extra long forks. why repeat the process on EL guapo?? cake and eat it too. big tires and still keep the geometry that the designer had intended. poppycock

    el Guapo is not for everyone. isn't that RAD!!!!!

    and another gem. With the low BB and the longer chain stay. I can actually use a fork that doesn't have travel adjust!!!!!!!!!!! I went through a whole ride and forgot to use it. I also don't adjust my seat height as much.

    and maybe next year when all the fork guys decide that 170mm or 180mm is the way to go, well that wont be such a big deal to the guy with guapoos.

  76. #76
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    No- 66 or 66.5 degrees......definitely not 65.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Don't drink it

  77. #77
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    Demo - why so defensive? Just trying to verify the actual numbers and see how real-world riders like it. I'm not dogging on the bike at all.

    E2 - what travel setting on your lyrik are you getting 66 degree headangle? Is the handling when climbing feel sloppy at all and have you wanting to drop the fork?
    Nothing to see here.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSINGA
    Demo - why so defensive? Just trying to verify the actual numbers and see how real-world riders like it. I'm not dogging on the bike at all.

    E2 - what travel setting on your lyrik are you getting 66 degree headangle? Is the handling when climbing feel sloppy at all and have you wanting to drop the fork?

    Well first it's a guess on HA, but I'll measure tonight. 160mm..............and yes I drop the fork to 115 on just about every climb.
    Don't drink it

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSINGA
    Demo - why so defensive? Just trying to verify the actual numbers and see how real-world riders like it. I'm not dogging on the bike at all.

    E2 - what travel setting on your lyrik are you getting 66 degree headangle? Is the handling when climbing feel sloppy at all and have you wanting to drop the fork?

    That's actually just Demo's personality... hey! he don't suffer fools.


    and yeah! 65, 66.5 what's the dif? That can't be right?

    I mean we're talkin full on DH numbers here?

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    That's actually just Demo's personality... hey! he don't suffer fools.


    and yeah! 65, 66.5 what's the dif? That can't be right?

    I mean we're talkin full on DH numbers here?
    Using a digital angle finder, it measures 66.5 degrees. Full on DH numbers? Maybe that's why it's so f-in fast going downhill! To get manufacturers specs you have to use manufacturers stock set-up..........what fork was it designed around to derive the 68 degree HA? Axle to crown may be shorter than my Lyrik.
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  81. #81
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    True!...

    Quote Originally Posted by E2@CC
    Using a digital angle finder, it measures 66.5 degrees. Full on DH numbers? Maybe that's why it's so f-in fast going downhill! To get manufacturers specs you have to use manufacturers stock set-up..........what fork was it designed around to derive the 68 degree HA? Axle to crown may be shorter than my Lyrik.

    I just didn't relize a Lyric was that much longer than a 36 (which I presume it was designed around). Anyway it seems to work cause no ones mentioned anything about "too slack" a HA, and if it still climbs decent, and padals freindly than a slack HA's even better.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by bear
    It's worth trying out, Jeff, if you can. I'd love to hear a comparison between the DHX 5 Coil and the Roco (TST or WC).

    I've got the Roco TST in my Quasi now, with the linkage plugged into the "air" pivot, and it works very, very, very, well.

    With my 4 yr old Fox Vanilla RC coil there was a disctinct bipolar nature to the bike. Slow-speed stuff were tight and controlled, and at about 15 mph the machine transformed into a very smooth trail eater. With the Roco, there is not so much of an obvious change and the bike feels like it smoothly translates according to speed and terrain.
    I'd like to try a Roco, but first I'm probably going to try a Double Barrel. When I was @ Cannondale, Ohlins supplied the suspension pieces for the Moto's and Quads and I know they've got their stuff together.

  83. #83
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    Slack is definitley better for what I'll be doing on it.....just wait til you see some of the action shots......maybe tomorrow night I will have some and post them for your viewing pleasure.
    Don't drink it

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titus Jeff
    I'd like to try a Roco, but first I'm probably going to try a Double Barrel. When I was @ Cannondale, Ohlins supplied the suspension pieces for the Moto's and Quads and I know they've got their stuff together.
    The CCDB is a sweet shock. I've tried most of the current shocks (except the Roco) and I prefer the CCDB on my bike.
    Nothing to see here.

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by E2@CC
    Using a digital angle finder, it measures 66.5 degrees. Full on DH numbers? Maybe that's why it's so f-in fast going downhill! To get manufacturers specs you have to use manufacturers stock set-up..........what fork was it designed around to derive the 68 degree HA? Axle to crown may be shorter than my Lyrik.




    Lyrik at 160 travel a2c is listed as 545mm give or take 5mm

    El Guapo is listed at 68 HA using 551m a2c

    Yours should measure more like just over 68 degrees...


    What gives ?~?~?

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titus Jeff
    I'd like to try a Roco, but first I'm probably going to try a Double Barrel. When I was @ Cannondale, Ohlins supplied the suspension pieces for the Moto's and Quads and I know they've got their stuff together.
    I can't fault your reasoning. If I could have afforded the cost, I'd probably have gotten the CCDB when I got the Roco, but at 2x the cost I just couldn't do it.

    It *was* close though.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain



    Lyrik at 160 travel a2c is listed as 545mm give or take 5mm

    El Guapo is listed at 68 HA using 551m a2c

    Yours should measure more like just over 68 degrees...


    What gives ?~?~?
    The Titus spec seems suspect.... I measured 67.8 deg with a 518 mm a2c which seems to closely correlate with E2's 66.5 deg with 545 mm a2c.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by presslab
    The Titus spec seems suspect.... I measured 67.8 deg with a 518 mm a2c which seems to closely correlate with E2's 66.5 deg with 545 mm a2c.

    According to my dodgy math ... that means the 551 is really 515 ?~?


    but.... what did the mountian bike action review measure the HA to be ?~?

  89. #89
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    MBA claims they measure it at 68 degrees.

    That settles it.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    That settles it.
    rad...

  91. #91
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    maybe its 68* with the front fork sagged. ???

  92. #92
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    Hmm it makes me want to measure seat tube angle to see what is going on here...

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by presslab
    Hmm it makes me want to measure seat tube angle to see what is going on here...
    got the home depot gravity angle finder, measured on flat pavement
    HA* =66.5*
    ST* =70*
    BB height 13.7"

    tires: enduro pro 2.4 2bliss on DT5.1s front and rear.
    fork: 36 talas with 7mm crown race 545+7 = 552mm A-C
    wheel base (L) is ~44.6"

    sweet!!!! I like my real geometry better then the spec!!!! :

    I did some vicious climbs on this thing and it was great. lot less drama then my ML!!! but I kinda tend to sit and spin it up in the granny.

    I'm doing the downieville "dh" on it tis sunday. it was totally sick on the preride. I'm going to sport my ML on the XC race. but I was real close to going all mountain with the guapo.

  94. #94
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    Interesting.. So the Titus web site says 71.5 ST and 68 HA. This makes me think the a2c spec is wrong, however the BB height spec of 13.85" does not agree with that.

    I measured my BB height and it is 13.0"!! No wonder it handles so good! That's with Kenda NG/BG 2.35 tires and Nixon 145 fork. I do pedal smack more often but I just need to get used to the lower height.


  95. #95
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    Demo - why the 7mm crown race?? Was it necessary for fork crown clearance or was it to just raise the front up more?
    Nothing to see here.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSINGA
    Demo - why the 7mm crown race?? Was it necessary for fork crown clearance or was it to just raise the front up more?
    He's a Fox fan-boy... no way a 66 would make its way onto Demo's bike, but those Foxes are too short for any serious trail-AM riding.
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  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSINGA
    Demo - why the 7mm crown race?? Was it necessary for fork crown clearance or was it to just raise the front up more?
    it was necessary on my 04 supermoto for down tube clearance Vs talas knob... and I basically just stripped the parts off my SuMo to build le guap. SO.... I just haven't pulled it off yet. and I may not. I'm very happy with the handling.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    it was necessary on my 04 supermoto for down tube clearance Vs talas knob... and I basically just stripped the parts off my SuMo to build le guap. SO.... I just haven't pulled it off yet. and I may not. I'm very happy with the handling.
    Certainly a possible error in the reported a2c information. Fortunately, it's on the side I like . Hopefully the 08's will be just as slack.


    demo_slug do you have any issues with the cable holders and intended cable routing ?~?

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    it was necessary on my 04 supermoto for down tube clearance Vs talas knob... and I basically just stripped the parts off my SuMo to build le guap. SO.... I just haven't pulled it off yet. and I may not. I'm very happy with the handling.
    hI DS, how did you set up the Pearl? Thanks

  100. #100
    the 36 year old grom
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain
    Certainly a possible error in the reported a2c information. Fortunately, it's on the side I like . Hopefully the 08's will be just as slack.


    demo_slug do you have any issues with the cable holders and intended cable routing ?~?
    the cable routing is covered in another post. all I can say about the routing is that it works fine. its ugly. but...??? PS. I use a model of Thomas and Betts ty wraps, They have a rounded profile.

    I wish the routing was more like how it was done on El SuMo, which is about how Eric did his. I'll post a "what I hate about cable routing" next week.

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