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  1. #1
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    not stoked on the 07 Talas RLC on the ML....ideas?

    Been riding the new 07 Talas RLC on the Moto for the last month or so and I'll have to say - I'm not all that stoked w/ it.

    I've constantly toyed around w/ the set-up and it does one of two things:

    -set up w/ 25-30% sag and I hardly ever come close to hitting full travel, in 140mm mode usually get 110-120mm

    -set up to achieve full travel with >30% sag and it just wallows way down in the stroke and suffers from ridiculous brake dive.

    this is my fisrt Talas and am I correct in that the std Float 32 will have a different 'spring rate' w/o the talas feature?

    I will have to say that I do like the new travel adjust switch - super easy o use, usually on use the 140-120 modes, and the fork is really quite stiff torsionally for a 32mm 140mm travel fork w/ normal QR's

    Anybody have any recommendations on other forks? FYI - 175lb rider in rough/rocky high alpine terrain with lots of climbing so I'd like to keep weight reasonable w/ good climbing performance and super plush useable travel and stick w/ normal QR's

    thanks

  2. #2
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    RS Revelation or Marzocchi AM1 if you have to have QR skewers.
    RS Pike 454 U-Turn if you can handle an axle conversion.

    All three are killer forks.

  3. #3
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    Revelation vs AM1
    thats sort of what I was wondering about...

    Now I assume the Rock Shox will be the lighter more 'racy' of the two and the all Mtn will be the bomber 'all mtn' fork w/ the only penalty being it's weight- correct? Big fan of Marzocchi from back in the day - ran countless Z1's on my bikes over the years. May need to go back.....

    Bike will not be raced aside from an appearance at this year at 24 hrs Moab where I'll be putting myself throught the fun and excitement of racing (actually just riding) it on a Duo team w/ my wife. after 8+ yrs of doing Moab on 4 or 5 person teams, time for something a bit defferent. If I'm actually going to do a XC race - it'll be on the 29er SS. the ML is my fun 'toy' and all day death march epic machine here in the wasatch.

  4. #4
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    It'll cost you around $240 with shipping and tax (not sure how they get away with charging state sales tax to out of state customers) to send it to Push for a custom tune job, but at this point, it may be your best option...

  5. #5
    thats right living legend
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    Dude! Push it!!!

  6. #6
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    yeah but....
    what about the Talas cartridge? My understanding is that getting it Push'd really only makes a larger improvement on the non-talas forks. something to do w/ the travel adj I think. anywho - yes I will contact the boys at PUSH - but don't be surprised to see a 07 talas 32 RLC show up on the classifieds or the 'bay. I've seen way too many pre 07 Talas forks puking out there - if it wasn't for the fact the deal was too good - probably would of gone for a simpler fork

    The Marz All Mtn forks have me thinking

  7. #7
    thats right living legend
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    Whaaa???

    Quote Originally Posted by Alta825
    yeah but....
    what about the Talas cartridge? My understanding is that getting it Push'd really only makes a larger improvement on the non-talas forks. something to do w/ the travel adj I think. anywho - yes I will contact the boys at PUSH - but don't be surprised to see a 07 talas 32 RLC show up on the classifieds or the 'bay. I've seen way too many pre 07 Talas forks puking out there - if it wasn't for the fact the deal was too good - probably would of gone for a simpler fork

    The Marz All Mtn forks have me thinking

    Push makes a TALAS even better. Never heard, read, or seen anything any where about them doing anything less with the TALAS than any other Fox fork...

    In fact the TALAS seems to be the fork people are most happy haveing pushed...

  8. #8
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    Lovin the 07 Talas

    Have had it for about 5 rides. Lovin' it!!! Am getting full travel out of it. Am head over heals for the 3 position lever.

    Chris

  9. #9
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Take 5 ml of oil out of the damper side (the right leg) and go back to your original air pressure for 25% sag. If you still don't get full travel, dump another 5 ml out. Fox chronically overfills forks which makes them come up short on travel.
    Last edited by tscheezy; 08-23-2006 at 08:46 PM.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  10. #10
    thats right living legend
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    Take 5 ml of oil out of the damper side (the right leg) and go back to your original air pressure for 25% sag. If you still don't get full travel, dump another 5 ml out. Fox chronically overfills forks which makes them come up short on travel.

    No wonder my 05 didden't feel good till it started leaking oil....

  11. #11
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alta825
    The Marz All Mtn forks have me thinking
    AM1.....

    I have an all mountain SL which I really like- the a2c at 140mm really tunes the motolite for technical descents. And it's very light too.

    Then my buddy Matt (slayer_rulez) got the All moutain 1. Holy crap! 1/2lb heavier (5lbs), total marzocchi coil feel on the small stuff, air progressiveness on big hits, ETA, TST, and TAS to fine tune the a2c & travel to the head angle. Lock the ETA down and engage the TST, you get basically a locked out 3" fork. Open the adjustments up and you get a 6" Z-1. I was totally impressed.

    Should be here any day....

  12. #12
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    thanks all for the advice -

    Will definitely check the oil and probably will remove a bit of oil - I'll give it a whirl and see what happens if still not much better then the phone call will be made to PUSH , guess I was misunderstood what they can and cannot do in regards to the Talas forks.

    The Marz still has me thinking though, even set up soft the Talas still doesn't have that bottomless feel. Oh well time to get out of here.....

  13. #13
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    Yeah, I'm loving the AM1 on the ML. I recently sent it in to bleed the tst cartridge so I'm on an 04 Talas right now. I really don't like it. It's not nearly as stiff and and it doesn't soak up the small hits as well but it bottoms out real easy on the big hits. In comparison the AM1 does seem bottomless. I also prefer a more slack head angle. The steering on the Talas at 130mm is way too quick for me. I honestly can't tell the difference weight-wise. I was hoping that I'd notice 1/2 lb. but I don't.

    I'd love to try a PUSH'd Talas just to see how it feels. I love what they do with the rear suspension.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    AM1.....

    I have an all mountain SL which I really like- the a2c at 140mm really tunes the motolite for technical descents. And it's very light too.

    Then my buddy Matt (slayer_rulez) got the All moutain 1. Holy crap! 1/2lb heavier (5lbs), total marzocchi coil feel on the small stuff, air progressiveness on big hits, ETA, TST, and TAS to fine tune the a2c & travel to the head angle. Lock the ETA down and engage the TST, you get basically a locked out 3" fork. Open the adjustments up and you get a 6" Z-1. I was totally impressed.

    Should be here any day....
    Hey FM,
    It would be great if you would write-up a post-ride comparison between the AMSL and the AM1. I'm loving the AMSL on my 575, but have always wondered if an AM1 would have been a better choice.

    BTW - why would anyone want a locked out 3" fork?!?

    Ant

  15. #15
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    BTW - why would anyone want a locked out 3" fork?!?
    That's exactly what I said until I came across a steep 5 mile fireroad climb that seemed to never end. I toughed it out for about a mile while my buds pulled away from me. I stopped and did everything I could to lockout my suspension front and back. The ETA feature was gold on the front end. I suffered on the back end. The guy who finished the climb first had a lockout on front and back.

    For my normal "AM" tech type riding with the ocassional fireroad I never use it.

  16. #16
    thats right living legend
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    AM1.....

    I have an all mountain SL which I really like- the a2c at 140mm really tunes the motolite for technical descents. And it's very light too.

    Then my buddy Matt (slayer_rulez) got the All moutain 1. Holy crap! 1/2lb heavier (5lbs), total marzocchi coil feel on the small stuff, air progressiveness on big hits, ETA, TST, and TAS to fine tune the a2c & travel to the head angle. Lock the ETA down and engage the TST, you get basically a locked out 3" fork. Open the adjustments up and you get a 6" Z-1. I was totally impressed.

    Should be here any day....

    What year AM1 are you getting? Do you happen to know if they raised or lowered the AC for the AM1? I've heard they raised it, and that they've lowered it, so does anyone know???
    Last edited by blackagness; 08-24-2006 at 08:36 AM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak
    That's exactly what I said until I came across a steep 5 mile fireroad climb that seemed to never end. . .For my normal "AM" tech type riding with the ocassional fireroad I never use it.
    Makes sense. I've never seen extended fireroad climbs (I've only ridden in NE and Michigan), so it's hard for me to fathom the usefulness of the ETA.

    (Geez, a steep 5 mile climb must end with an awesome descent. )

    Ant

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    AM1.....
    Second that... AM1 is THA crap to have!!
    I love mine!

    Pike 454 is the only good contender though, but you need a new front hub and wheel. If you don't care about the new wheel, it'll be as stiff or stiffer, shorter A2C for better overall behaviour, a nice progressive feel and tons of tuneability... and if you still don't like it, just wait till end of year and PUSH IT!!!

    A note on the AM1 for you FM and the rest of the bunch. On the suspension board there are some reports about bad AM1's of late... cartridges with the need of a bleed and some clunking noise that is only solved by putting an stupid shim between the underside of TST topcap and the head of the cartridge. Also, '06 AM's are Post-Mount. Something to take into account.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alta825
    thanks all for the advice -

    Will definitely check the oil and probably will remove a bit of oil - I'll give it a whirl and see what happens if still not much better then the phone call will be made to PUSH , guess I was misunderstood what they can and cannot do in regards to the Talas forks.

    The Marz still has me thinking though, even set up soft the Talas still doesn't have that bottomless feel. Oh well time to get out of here.....
    Gotta admit that Push does a marvelous job on the Talas.
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  20. #20
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by antonio
    Hey FM,
    It would be great if you would write-up a post-ride comparison between the AMSL and the AM1. I'm loving the AMSL on my 575, but have always wondered if an AM1 would have been a better choice.

    BTW - why would anyone want a locked out 3" fork?!?

    Ant
    I will definitely write up a comparison……

    The AM1 on the way is a 2006 with post mounts, I already have the adaptor. Sounds like most of the issues have been with 2005 forks. BTW, I hadn't planned on switching- I called marzocchi to see about the possibility of retro-fitting an ETA cartridge into the left leg of my AM SL. After lengthy discussion they offerred to trade me up into the all mountain 1 at cost. After riding my friends, I was all over it- his fork is amazingly versatile.We do some steep fire-road climbs, this is where I missed the ability to lower the front end. Being able to lock it out as well as down is a nice feature that I will probably only use on these fire road climbs.

  21. #21
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    Yeah, that's actually what is wrong with mine right now. Mine's a 2005 and I was getting severe top-out clunk. It was still rideable but very annoying. I'm hoping they solved the problem.

  22. #22
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    It hasn't been said....

    but the 07 Vanilla RLC is said to be quite nice.... and it's reasonable in price too. But you'll have to give up the ease of TA. If you like that sort of thing.

    I have a 05 Vanilla RLC and it is as good as as stock fork gets.

    Regards,

    EndUser
    My advice and $3 will buy you nothing more than a tunafish sandwich.

  23. #23
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    I will definitely write up a comparison……

    The AM1 on the way is a 2006 with post mounts, I already have the adaptor. Sounds like most of the issues have been with 2005 forks. BTW, I hadn't planned on switching- I called marzocchi to see about the possibility of retro-fitting an ETA cartridge into the left leg of my AM SL. After lengthy discussion they offerred to trade me up into the all mountain 1 at cost. After riding my friends, I was all over it- his fork is amazingly versatile.We do some steep fire-road climbs, this is where I missed the ability to lower the front end. Being able to lock it out as well as down is a nice feature that I will probably only use on these fire road climbs.
    mmmmmhhhh.... I'm positive also that you can just swap the Doppio Air for the ETA. But who knows? 130 and 150 versions aren't equal and they do not share the same lowers and cartridges.

    Anyway... I'm glad you're getting the fork you want and yeah, the '06 ones shouldn't have the top-out clunk. Being the lowers different, that issue should be sorted out.

    As usual... we await your detailed reports!
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  24. #24
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    mmmmmhhhh.... I'm positive also that you can just swap the Doppio Air for the ETA. But who knows? 130 and 150 versions aren't equal and they do not share the same lowers and cartridges.
    I was hoping to go that route, but they quoted over $200usd in parts!
    Cartridge, springs, top cap, adjuster knobs... it was like 8-10 different pieces.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alta825
    Been riding the new 07 Talas RLC on the Moto for the last month or so and I'll have to say - I'm not all that stoked w/ it.

    I've constantly toyed around w/ the set-up and it does one of two things:

    -set up w/ 25-30% sag and I hardly ever come close to hitting full travel, in 140mm mode usually get 110-120mm

    -set up to achieve full travel with >30% sag and it just wallows way down in the stroke and suffers from ridiculous brake dive.

    this is my fisrt Talas and am I correct in that the std Float 32 will have a different 'spring rate' w/o the talas feature?

    I will have to say that I do like the new travel adjust switch - super easy o use, usually on use the 140-120 modes, and the fork is really quite stiff torsionally for a 32mm 140mm travel fork w/ normal QR's

    Anybody have any recommendations on other forks? FYI - 175lb rider in rough/rocky high alpine terrain with lots of climbing so I'd like to keep weight reasonable w/ good climbing performance and super plush useable travel and stick w/ normal QR's

    thanks

    I wonder if you're too pre-occupied with getting full travel. You're sag setting at 25%+ (should be set at the 140mm setting) will always yield a soft/loose/sloppy front end. Try ~15% and see how the bike handles, set the rear to a comprable %. For measuring your max travel, take all the air out of the fork. If you still can't get close to 140mm, then take oil out. Keep an open mind that 140mm may be there to allow you to soak up a big hit, like 3-5' drop. Otherwise, in normal riding, why would you want to see your fork go through most of its travel? If so, what would you expect it to do on a very highspeed hit, and or a big drop? You don't want it to bottom out do you? Think ragdoll...
    In normal riding, if I see my fork come close to full travel, i get concerned, and start thinking of putting more air in it.

    I find that the ML climbs and bobs like a pig with anything around 25% sag. Great for a super plush ride, but handling is not great.

    Good luck, and enjoy the ride.

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