Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    830

    New ML Build, cable routing question

    I posted this in the SC forum by mistake...so reposting here. Just built up my new ML2 with help from a friend this weekend. Although I haven't taken it on any trails yet, I think I'm going to love this bike.

    I've read all the ML setup posts and looked at the pictures to see how the cable routing looks and also searched under shifting issues to see if I could get an answer for this question.

    Problem is when I get on the bike, it creates a shift and also when I get off the bike it shifts back (rear derailler). I have teflon cable and an Avid Rollamajig, so there is minimal friction. I suspect the housing near the rear shock. Right now it runs over the bridge in the pivot link and according to one post, it's better to run it under that bridge and make it as short as possible. Right now the housing bows out to the left when I get on the bike. Any advice on proper setup of this would be appreciated.

    Also, any opinions on shock/fork pressures would be great. I am 200 lbs with gear and right now have 150 in the RP23 and 90 in the TALAS. Pictures and build detail coming soon.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    club très grand de VTT
    Reputation: pongee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    287
    Hi EJ,

    Firstly congrats on your new ML.

    Re cable routing, I originally had my cables routed above the pivot link. Initially this caused a problem with ghost shifting under suspension compression, but it then went away. However, the cables continued to bow out to the left under compression, which led me to make the change last week to routing them under the pivot link.

    However, I now consistently get ghost shifting under compression. I must say that I also put a cable tie-based 'guide' attached to the pivot link with a loose guide to hold the cables in as one of the other posters suggested, and this appears to be aggravating my particular circumstances. I tried to follow the picture example as closely as possible, but I guess I screwed it up. I intend to remove this "cable tie guide" before my next ride, especially as it appears to be chafing my cables something awful, and try to work from there.

    I think at the end of the day you have to work out what's best for your individual bike. Have fun with your build.

    Cheers,

    P.
    Last edited by pongee; 07-23-2007 at 12:07 AM.
    "There are no hills on this trail. It's all flat." - Scott TDF Roberts

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,258
    Quote Originally Posted by EJBlur

    Also, any opinions on shock/fork pressures would be great. I am 200 lbs with gear and right now have 150 in the RP23 and 90 in the TALAS. Pictures and build detail coming soon.

    Thanks!

    I am similar in size to you and have been using 145-150 lbs in the RP23 (giving 0.5" sag with propedal off) and ~60 lbs in the fork (Talas RLC). Funny thing with the fork is that I only need about 45lbs to get 25% sag - way below what Fox recommends. With 60 I get ~12-15% sag.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Comrade K's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    192
    I've got a '07 ML and I run the rear der cable as well as my rear brake hose under the bridge. The der cable bows leftward and the brake hose bows out to the right. I have never had any ghost shifting problem at all.
    One think I did differently was place a little heat shrink tubing over my cable housing ends so that they would sit more firmly in the cable stops on the frame.
    BTW, what's a rollamajig?

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    830
    Quote Originally Posted by Comrade K
    I've got a '07 ML and I run the rear der cable as well as my rear brake hose under the bridge. The der cable bows leftward and the brake hose bows out to the right. I have never had any ghost shifting problem at all.
    One think I did differently was place a little heat shrink tubing over my cable housing ends so that they would sit more firmly in the cable stops on the frame.
    BTW, what's a rollamajig?
    Here's info on the Rollamajig. Essentially it eliminates the loop of cable that goes into the shimano derailler, thus reducing cable friction. It's a great add-on as your cables can get much dirtier and still shift well due to the reduced friction of the entire length of cable.

    http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/Extras/product_20952.shtml

    Don't pay much attention to the first review as everyone I know that has used them has been very happy and even SRAM has designed their derailler in this fashion.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    27
    On a small frame I took both der. and rear break housing out of the linkage. Now they are just going along the sides of the linkage and staying put nicelly. This has eliminated cable rub and potential shifting issues for me. You are using proper shifter housing I assume? (SIS or the like)

    Seb.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dominator13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,423
    I, also, ran the cables over and got the "ghost shifting" so I ran them under and then used the Flak Jacket cable holders to stabilize the cables. The cables bow in towards each other so there is no issue with them. However, when I changed out my cables this year I got my "ghost shifting" again. I then realized that my housing above the shock was an 1/8" short and it was allowing the housing to move and thus the "ghost shift". I put in the proper length and all was good!
    Attached Images Attached Images
    [SIZE="2"]"You don't stop playing because you get old, you get old because you stop playing!" - Unigeezer [/SIZE]

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    51
    That Flak Jacket cable guide seems pretty cool -- where did you get it?

    I left the rear brake cable outside the pivot while having the derailleur cable inside like you show so no need for the guides, but still their pretty cool.

    As one poster said having the housing length long enough that it never creeps out of its ends is important.

    Eric, post your bike porn shots before it's forever covered in dust

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    830
    Quote Originally Posted by jcbikeski
    That Flak Jacket cable guide seems pretty cool -- where did you get it?

    I left the rear brake cable outside the pivot while having the derailleur cable inside like you show so no need for the guides, but still their pretty cool.

    As one poster said having the housing length long enough that it never creeps out of its ends is important.

    Eric, post your bike porn shots before it's forever covered in dust
    Ok, I think I got the shifting worked out...knock on wood. Stupid error on my part housing was too short and there was play allowed...I lengthened the housing and it was then too long to fit inside the link so rather than cut it again, I ran it outside the link and it works great and looks ok...I'm going to leave well enough alone for now. Thanks for all the tips and Yes, I'd like to get some of those Avid cable holders...do tell where we can get them JC, bike pics coming...I took them yesterday but can't find the USB cable....grrrr.

  10. #10
    club très grand de VTT
    Reputation: pongee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    287

    Cable Guides

    Dominator13,

    I'm so jealous of your setup with the flak jacket guides - looks really clean and 'factory'. Obviously, a frankenstein cable-tie analogue could be fabricated, but would look nowhere as cool.

    Maybe if we did like a group buy thing for ML owners, Avid might sell them to us.

    Cheers,

    P.
    "There are no hills on this trail. It's all flat." - Scott TDF Roberts

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    448

    The bike seem sensative to housing length

    I tried something similar to dominator at the first of the year - that combined with new housing -- guess what ghost shifting. Also, I am running a one piece continuous housing to the rear derailleur. My housing guides were made using the clips that attach to the caliper bolts on Shimano brakes. Anyway, I stopped using the housing guides, just allowing the housing to bow out were needed and no more ghost shifting. I say just run the housing under the link. From what you describe it sounds like you have too much housing to start with if when you sit on the bike it shifts. Post up your size of frame and someone with a the same size should be able to give you a housing length for no ghostshifts. Here is a pic of my attempted cable guides -- that I am no longer using.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    830
    Quote Originally Posted by eman2
    I tried something similar to dominator at the first of the year - that combined with new housing -- guess what ghost shifting. Also, I am running a one piece continuous housing to the rear derailleur. My housing guides were made using the clips that attach to the caliper bolts on Shimano brakes. Anyway, I stopped using the housing guides, just allowing the housing to bow out were needed and no more ghost shifting. I say just run the housing under the link. From what you describe it sounds like you have too much housing to start with if when you sit on the bike it shifts. Post up your size of frame and someone with a the same size should be able to give you a housing length for no ghostshifts. Here is a pic of my attempted cable guides -- that I am no longer using.
    Hmm, Interesting. Right now I have the cable outside of the link with a small bow to it and it shifts great...I'm reluctant to cut it down again and try to fit it within the link for now although that would certainly look cleaner. Tired of messing with it and just want to enjoy the bike for awhile. I have a large. I ran into the same issue with my Santa Cruz Blur, so I think this is something that is common to a lot of bike models.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    158
    I just ordered my ML2 yesterday...what areas are the most prone to cable rub? what are you guys using to try and prevent it?

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dominator13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,423
    Congrats! You'll love it! Make sure you post pics when she's ready.
    3m makes a plastic patch that comes in a sheet. They are very durable, clear and stick well. It cost about $3 and should be able to be found or orderd at your LBS.
    [SIZE="2"]"You don't stop playing because you get old, you get old because you stop playing!" - Unigeezer [/SIZE]

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    158
    great..does it have a particular name? where on the bike is it most needed? sorry for all the newb ?'s!!!

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    830
    Quote Originally Posted by lonnie_20
    great..does it have a particular name? where on the bike is it most needed? sorry for all the newb ?'s!!!
    I had the same question...how does the anodized finish hold up to cable rub? Is some type of protection still needed? I've never seen the 3M sheets at a bike shop, but some shops do carry the Lizard skin plastic patches for about $7.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    51
    I used Bonk brand 3M sheets on my 2006 ML after hearing horror stories about chips. It's worked very nice where I put it -- partly wish I put it on even more areas.

    http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/14620-400_BNKDI6-2-Accessories-30-DVDs/Books/More/Bonk!-Paint-Protection-Film-Do-It-Yourself-Kit-offerIN070GLB.htm?zmam=3075515&zmas=1&zmac=30&zmap=14620

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    158
    Quote Originally Posted by jcbikeski
    I used Bonk brand 3M sheets on my 2006 ML after hearing horror stories about chips. It's worked very nice where I put it -- partly wish I put it on even more areas.

    http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/14620-400_BNKDI6-2-Accessories-30-DVDs/Books/More/Bonk!-Paint-Protection-Film-Do-It-Yourself-Kit-offerIN070GLB.htm?zmam=3075515&zmas=1&zmac=30&zmap=14620
    it says it does not stick well to anodized or matte finishes...

  19. #19
    club très grand de VTT
    Reputation: pongee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    287
    Eman2,

    I'll try it without the guides this weekend - hopefully matters will improve. FYI I'm running a medium sized ML.

    Re patches, I'm using a freebie set of patches I 'pursuaded' my LBS to throw in for free as part of some upgrades. They are transparent oval patches, relatively thick, and seem to stick pretty well to the oh-so-delicate matte paintjob of my ML. So far so good, unfortunately I don't know the brand. I've stuck them on wherever a cable can/does rub against the frame.

    To the new ML owners, welcome to the club, and stick those patches on before you turn a wheel

    Cheers,

    P.
    "There are no hills on this trail. It's all flat." - Scott TDF Roberts

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sungchang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    641
    I tried over and under, zip ties, you name it and it just wasn't working for me. Following someone on the board, I decided to go totally outside. I don't have a picture of mine, but I think I still have the one from the board...ah here it is.



    And it has worked wonders. I don't get any more ghost shifting. Also it doesn't bow out to the side like it used to.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •