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  1. #1
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    New El Guapo...there are revision 2 and revision 3 frames. A few questions

    I figured this is the best place to ask the question. I just ordered an El Guapo frame from ON-ONE UK and fear I made a mistake.

    The frame I ordered was the less expensive V2 frame. There is a newer V3 frame with a few geometry tweaks. Both have the RT3 rear shock.

    I secretly wanted the V3 because of the slightly more slack head angle (67 instead of 68). I saved about $250 buying the old frame, and I am thinking of putting in a slackset (mixed taper 1 or 1.5 degrees) to slacken things out a bit. This will also drop the BB a bit (like the V3).

    Does this seem like a decent plan? The v2 frame is still a 2012 or 2013 frame correct...because it has the mixed taper headtube and cable routing fixes?

    This is all slightly confusing and when I was ordering I didn't even know the V3 existed. I reckon that with a slackset all is well?
    X-prezo Super-D, 26in style.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by y0bailey View Post
    I figured this is the best place to ask the question. I just ordered an El Guapo frame from ON-ONE UK and fear I made a mistake.

    The frame I ordered was the less expensive V2 frame. There is a newer V3 frame with a few geometry tweaks. Both have the RT3 rear shock.

    I secretly wanted the V3 because of the slightly more slack head angle (67 instead of 68). I saved about $250 buying the old frame, and I am thinking of putting in a slackset (mixed taper 1 or 1.5 degrees) to slacken things out a bit. This will also drop the BB a bit (like the V3).

    Does this seem like a decent plan? The v2 frame is still a 2012 or 2013 frame correct...because it has the mixed taper headtube and cable routing fixes?

    This is all slightly confusing and when I was ordering I didn't even know the V3 existed. I reckon that with a slackset all is well?
    I thought the v2 frame was the first EG post-On-One purchase. I think this requires the smoothie mixture headset and lost the cable guide on the head tube.

    v3 has fixed the headset issue and has slightly altered geometry.

  3. #3
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    V2 was a revision by On-One, V3 was a further revision.

    V3 has longer TT (10mm longer) and a touch lower BB for a given fork length. Head angle is a touch slacker.

    V2 with a Slackset is a BRILLIANT bike :-)

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    V2 was a revision by On-One, V3 was a further revision.

    V3 has longer TT (10mm longer) and a touch lower BB for a given fork length. Head angle is a touch slacker.

    V2 with a Slackset is a BRILLIANT bike :-)
    Thanks brant! I just wanted someone else to see my plan and not think I am crazy.

    One more question...is the V2 and 2012 frame, and the V3 a 2013 frame? V2 a 2011, V3 2012? Does it matter?

    Just want to make sure I have all the details before I go bragging about my sweet new ride.
    X-prezo Super-D, 26in style.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    V2 was a revision by On-One, V3 was a further revision.

    V3 has longer TT (10mm longer) and a touch lower BB for a given fork length. Head angle is a touch slacker.

    V2 with a Slackset is a BRILLIANT bike :-)
    So brant, is this the latest version? Titus El Guapo Frame And Monarch Shock

    It should be because they offer the new colors...

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Gr View Post
    So brant, is this the latest version? Titus El Guapo Frame And Monarch Shock

    It should be because they offer the new colors...
    Yes

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    Yes
    Nice! Going for the Super Raw!
    Another question please... Is a 180mm fork too much? I was looking for a two step (180-135 or 180-150) rather than a 170mm.

    Edit: Well now that I read my post again I think that 180 is too much...
    Last edited by George Gr; 07-10-2012 at 02:03 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    V2 was a revision by On-One, V3 was a further revision.

    V3 has longer TT (10mm longer) and a touch lower BB for a given fork length. Head angle is a touch slacker.

    V2 with a Slackset is a BRILLIANT bike :-)
    I have an issue with the V2 that just arrived today. I bought the On-One slackset and the headtube reaming isn't deep enough for it to fit. This completely blows my plans as I also bought a 150mm fork to put on it - I don't need a Lyrik anymore. I'd be OK moving to the mixer headset but not with a 150mm fork because it'll have a steeper HTA than desired.

    Brant, Is this a known issue and is there a fix for this?

    Thanks,

    Mike

  9. #9
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    Bad news Mike. I am majorly fearing this will happen to me as well. I will report in when my frame arrives.

    Is this the headset you ordered?

    On-One Slackset Headset By Works Components
    X-prezo Super-D, 26in style.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnigro View Post
    I have an issue with the V2 that just arrived today. I bought the On-One slackset and the headtube reaming isn't deep enough for it to fit. This completely blows my plans as I also bought a 150mm fork to put on it - I don't need a Lyrik anymore. I'd be OK moving to the mixer headset but not with a 150mm fork because it'll have a steeper HTA than desired.

    Brant, Is this a known issue and is there a fix for this?

    Thanks,

    Mike
    Just need to have the top of the head tube reamed deeper.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    Just need to have the top of the head tube reamed deeper.
    Can anyone confirm that the MKII and this headset will work together without reaming?

    On-One Slackset Headset By Works Components
    X-prezo Super-D, 26in style.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by y0bailey View Post
    Can anyone confirm that the MKII and this headset will work together without reaming?

    On-One Slackset Headset By Works Components
    The MK2 head tube needs to be reamed to fit the Slackset.
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  13. #13
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    This is incredibly unfortunate and makes me depressed I bought a MKII yet again. Really wish the website was less confusing.

    Now I have to find someone to ream this headset out, or get drunk and take a dremel tool to it to lower the lip a bit?
    X-prezo Super-D, 26in style.

  14. #14
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    Shiggy...I just read a thread about the shallow counterbore, and that
    OK. Message heard. All El Guapos will have the head tube reamed before they are shipped.
    It was posted on 3/2012. How can I order a frame 4 months later and this issue still be going on?

    Is it confirmed that this frame will not have the deeper headtube ream?
    X-prezo Super-D, 26in style.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by y0bailey View Post
    Shiggy...I just read a thread about the shallow counterbore, and that

    It was posted on 3/2012. How can I order a frame 4 months later and this issue still be going on?

    Is it confirmed that this frame will not have the deeper headtube ream?
    MK2 EGs shipped from Portland are reamed.
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  16. #16
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    any chance the UK folks got the memo?
    X-prezo Super-D, 26in style.

  17. #17
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    confirmed that the EG I received from the UK/On-One does NOT have the head tube reamed.It wouldn't be more than a small PITA if I could find a shop with a 44mm reamer. I have called 15 of the most reputable bike shops in the ATL area and no one has this tool. The biggest reason is that 44mm ID head tubes are fairly new.

    So, I will say that I am a MotoLite owner. Had one since before Titus changed hands and I love that bike. It is one of the biggest reasons that I sold the Nomad I had and moved to the EG. But, this throws a HUGE wrench in my build plans. I have a vacation week and was planning on riding this new beast... guess it'll have to wait until I figure out how to resolve this issue. I will say that my frame doesn't even have a 10mm bore depth on the top of the HT. I couldn't see any headset fitting in there. I'm still a loyal Titus owner. Just wish that On-One took care of this issue back at their warehouse like Titus did. I'd have spent the extra $$ on the 2013. As it stands, I already drove to an LBS that "thought" they could help me at a cost of $20 in gas... once finished, I can see this will end up costing me an extra $100 if I can even find a shop that can do it.

    Shiggy, any ideas of who the best shops in the southeast are? This added delay is killing me.

  18. #18
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    yobaily, i just looked at on-one's site. the frame you ordered should be the 2013 version. they only have orange in sock and have probably reduced it to spur purchases as a lot of people are probably waiting on other colors. anyway, they sold out of the 2012 a few weeks ago.

  19. #19
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    Man o man. Don't know what else to say. But man, I feel for you guys.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    The MK2 head tube needs to be reamed to fit the Slackset.
    Shiggy, you have got to be fricken kidding us. After all the mud I dragged you through regarding the shallow ream [ MANUFACTURING DEFECT] and your promise to rectify the situation, you guys still manage to pass the buck to your buyers?
    Do you not get it? The customer service thing?
    I am almost speechless. You guys are pathetic.
    ****

  21. #21
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    it's not even so much a money/hassle issue for me... which it is, mind you... but it is like having a brand new Porsche (insert car of choice) in the garage & keys in hand but the car is sitting on blocks w/o wheels. my vacation starts on Sat and I'll be lucky to be rolling by the end of it.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnigro View Post
    I will say that my frame doesn't even have a 10mm bore depth on the top of the HT. I couldn't see any headset fitting in there.
    A Smoothie Mixer headset will fit in there just fine, and if it gets you out of a hole I will action one getting sent to you, free of charge.

  23. #23
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    V3 frames (the ones that are on sale on On-One now) can fit the On-One slackset or a smoothie mixer headset without reaming?
    Are they reamed already?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Gr View Post
    V3 frames (the ones that are on sale on On-One now) can fit the On-One slackset or a smoothie mixer headset without reaming?
    Are they reamed already?
    V3 frames have a deeper factory ream depth as standard.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnigro View Post
    yobaily, i just looked at on-one's site. the frame you ordered should be the 2013 version. they only have orange in sock and have probably reduced it to spur purchases as a lot of people are probably waiting on other colors. anyway, they sold out of the 2012 a few weeks ago.
    I think I purchased the last MK2 model. Literally after I purchased, it switched to out of stock.

    My receipt says "FRTITELGUV2-MED-OR", so I see a v2 in there.


    Really wish I didn't tear apart my 3 year old Heckler for parts...I predict a massive delay in my riding.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    V3 frames have a deeper factory ream depth as standard.
    Dumb question here....but if I do manage to find someone to ream this out for me, how deep should I take it? All the way through, 10mm? How deep are the MK3s reamed?
    X-prezo Super-D, 26in style.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by y0bailey View Post
    Dumb question here....but if I do manage to find someone to ream this out for me, how deep should I take it? All the way through, 10mm? How deep are the MK3s reamed?
    As our headset works just fine with the slim insert depth in the upper headset area, Workscomponents and myself have figured that there is no issue trimming the headset to fit the frame.

    There is no difference to the outside of the frame between the deeper/shallower reamed headtubes, so running bore to 12mm is fine.

    If you require a Smoothie Mixer headset to get you rolling, let me know and I will have one shipped to you (require your Sales Order number).

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    V3 frames have a deeper factory ream depth as standard.
    Thanks a mil brant!

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    If you require a Smoothie Mixer headset to get you rolling, let me know and I will have one shipped to you (require your Sales Order number).
    I will take you up on this...because I know my few local shops aren't going to be able to do this. I will probably be driving a bit to find one.

    I will PM you with info.

    Thanks for making this right (ish). Glad the MK3's got things sorted out.
    X-prezo Super-D, 26in style.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by y0bailey View Post
    I will take you up on this...because I know my few local shops aren't going to be able to do this. I will probably be driving a bit to find one.

    I will PM you with info.

    Thanks for making this right (ish). Glad the MK3's got things sorted out.
    I have requested one is shipped out to you today, on my account, to your address, free of charge.

    I hope to have notifications it's left shortly.

  31. #31
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    brant, do you think a 160 or a 170 fork with a slackset will be too much? Will it lower the bb much or any other problem that I cannot think off?

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    Brant, you were always a huge help when you were at Ragley, any time questions came up you were on top of it. You continue to offer that type of help now. I am very grateful!!!

    I'll PM you about this offline.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Gr View Post
    brant, do you think a 160 or a 170 fork with a slackset will be too much? Will it lower the bb much or any other problem that I cannot think off?
    Slackset barely lowers the BB. And if you're the sort of person who likes the slackset style, then fitting your rocker in the forward position raises the BB 3mm, and increases progression.

    Lower BB's are fine, fun and stable. You just have to accept pedal strikes and pedal sensibly.

  34. #34
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    Brant, you mentioned taking a few mm off of the Slackset cup. Is this a tried and tested solution and will it be OK to run it that way?

    Thanks,

    Mike

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnigro View Post
    Brant, you mentioned taking a few mm off of the Slackset cup. Is this a tried and tested solution and will it be OK to run it that way?

    Thanks,

    Mike
    It's what I'd do.
    And if you really screw it up, I'll send you a new Slackset cup.

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    Cool. I was just looking into that with an ex-factory mech for Yeti. He didn't see to want to do that. I'll call Titus later today and have them handle it.

    Thanks again fr all of your help, Brant!!!

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    And if you're the sort of person who likes the slackset style, then fitting your rocker in the forward position raises the BB 3mm, and increases progression.
    I didn't quite get that...
    "Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" Ralph Waldo Emerson

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Gr View Post
    I didn't quite get that...
    The rocker mount on the downtube has two positions. The forward one is more progressive, the rear more linear. The forward one raises your static BB height 3mm more, though I bet it actually doesn't affect sagged BB height by much as the bike will tend to sit into it's travel more due to the progressive nature of the shock. Hmm.

    I ride it in forward position. Just feels more fun.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    The rocker mount on the downtube has two positions. The forward one is more progressive, the rear more linear. The forward one raises your static BB height 3mm more, though I bet it actually doesn't affect sagged BB height by much as the bike will tend to sit into it's travel more due to the progressive nature of the shock. Hmm.

    I ride it in forward position. Just feels more fun.
    So for an air shock (RT3), the rear mount is best for most, correct? This is due to air shocks being more progressive by nature?
    X-prezo Super-D, 26in style.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by y0bailey View Post
    So for an air shock (RT3), the rear mount is best for most, correct? This is due to air shocks being more progressive by nature?
    Depends on your airshock!
    The high volume RT3 we sell with the El Guapo is pretty linear - that's what the high volume bit does.
    Certainly historically, this was the way Titus intended the bikes to be set up. But back in the day, air shocks were a lot more progressive than the high volume shocks now.

    The tunable aspect of the El Guapo is a lovely trait, and it means you can dial a bike to be a bit stiffer and feel faster and harsher (back position) or more squish (front position).

    I definitely prefer the front.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnigro View Post
    Cool. I was just looking into that with an ex-factory mech for Yeti. He didn't see to want to do that. I'll call Titus later today and have them handle it.

    Thanks again fr all of your help, Brant!!!
    We can ream the head tube. Not able to mill the headset cup.
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    The rocker mount on the downtube has two positions. The forward one is more progressive, the rear more linear. The forward one raises your static BB height 3mm more, though I bet it actually doesn't affect sagged BB height by much as the bike will tend to sit into it's travel more due to the progressive nature of the shock. Hmm.

    I ride it in forward position. Just feels more fun.
    I am looking at your drawing and trying to find which one is the rocker mount... http://s3.amazonaws.com/files.poster...eHTMRVRPVms%3D
    Forgive me for being an ass but I am not too familiar with this...
    "Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Quote Originally Posted by George Gr View Post
    I am looking at your drawing and trying to find which one is the rocker mount... http://s3.amazonaws.com/files.poster...eHTMRVRPVms%3D
    Forgive me for being an ass but I am not too familiar with this...
    You are confusing things George. The rocker mount is a bolt that holds the rear shox onto the frame/rear triangle. There are two holes in the rocker, and you can remove the bolt, move the shock into the other hole, and place the bolt back in.

    The diagram you linked to is for the headset/slackset and installing your fork.
    X-prezo Super-D, 26in style.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by y0bailey View Post
    You are confusing things George. The rocker mount is a bolt that holds the rear shox onto the frame/rear triangle. There are two holes in the rocker, and you can remove the bolt, move the shock into the other hole, and place the bolt back in.

    The diagram you linked to is for the headset/slackset and installing your fork.
    OK, got it. I am sure I am an ass now!
    Hahahah, sorry!
    "Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    wrong post...

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    Back to the headset fitting issue...

    I haven't had a good experience with the Smoothie Mixer as it didn't last more that 6 months before it got trashed (bought my V2 in December), and now I want to replace it with a Hope headset (which in other bikes have lasted for years without a bother). Can anyone confirm if the Hope headset will fit the frame? And if not is there any longer lasting headset in the market that will fit it?

    Thanks,

    Pedro
    Last edited by PedroC; 07-12-2012 at 01:04 AM. Reason: bad grammar

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    Oh wow! Either I have been the only one who had durability issues with my Smoothie headset, or talking about headsets from other brands is a no-no here.
    So as I failed to get any help with my previous question, I will change it a bit.
    Can anyone tell me the depth of the headtube ream on the V2 frame?
    Thanks,
    Pedro

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by PedroC View Post
    Oh wow! Either I have been the only one who had durability issues with my Smoothie headset, or talking about headsets from other brands is a no-no here.
    So as I failed to get any help with my previous question, I will change it a bit.
    Can anyone tell me the depth of the headtube ream on the V2 frame?
    Thanks,
    Pedro
    Mine was about 4mm; it should be at least 12mm.
    ****

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    Pedro, the bore depth of the Mk2 that I have seems to be around 7 or 8mm. It is a little deeper than a 5mm spacer and a little shorter than a 10mm spacer. I can't get a micrometer in there to be 100% sure.

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    Mine was about 4-5mm at most. So shallow. Luckily I have a fantastic independent mechanic in the area that reamed it with me standing there hanging out for $20. I feel bad for the folks that had to drive around and search for someone...because I got lucky it was so easy.
    X-prezo Super-D, 26in style.

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    Yobailey, who reamed it for you, a bike mech? You're lucky, I spent hours calling around and even drove a few hours to 2 different shops trying to find someone who foul do it for me... No luck. I'll tell you, if it wasn't for Brant, this frame would be on its way back to the UK and a Turner 5 Spot would be on the way.

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    Yea. Cycle Surgeon - Home

    Has an awesome shop at his house, super nice guy, knows his crap more than anyone I have ever seen. I called a few local shops and no luck. Then a friend reminded me this guy was around. He did it for me in 15 minutes.

    He had never seen a headtube reamed that shallow before. It kinda blew his mind.
    X-prezo Super-D, 26in style.

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    Ouch!! That's so shallow, will probably not be able to use any headset apart from the bloody Smoothie.

    Next question then... has anybody else had durability issues with the Smoothie Mixer? Mine was creeking badly after just 5 months and last week when I openned it up, the upper bearings were a total mess!

  54. #54
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    Are you sure that you didn't over-torque the headset when you installed it? I've had some that were more finicky than others - CaneCreek has always been the best for me.

    I've not read anything about the smoothie mixer having issues. A few years ago I had an FSA headset that got some rusty bearings and since then, I pack all my headsets with automotive bearing grease. I have yet to pull one apart that isn't still packed really well. I'll look up the name of the stuff I use but it is really, really stringy, thick stuff and was only about $8 a can at Autozone or the like.

  55. #55
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    Does the EG v3 work with spring shocks ?

  56. #56
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    mnigro thanks for your input. And thanks to all who gave me the ream depth. I don't know shop where I live where I can get the frame reamed so I will have to stick with the Smoothie. Now I know of the issues I had with it, I will try to maintain it often as oppose to just fit and forget, maybe not such a big deal.
    Cheers

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxus View Post
    Does the EG v3 work with spring shocks ?
    It was designed for both air and coil. They each have their own rocker mount at the lower frame pivot, one in front and one in rear. Lots of people running coils. Look at the EG set up thread.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by PedroC View Post
    Back to the headset fitting issue...

    Can anyone confirm if the Hope headset will fit the frame?

    Pedro
    I've got a Hope headset fitted to my V2 and works just fine! Whether or not this is the best one to use for angle I dont know. Trying to figure this out at the moment!

  59. #59
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    what is the shock size on EG ? My V3 is on the way from UK, meanwhile wanna to buy a spring shock for it.

  60. #60
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    216mm with 22x8mm bushings

  61. #61
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    8.5 i2i, 2.5 stroke, if you prefer standard.

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