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  1. #1
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    MotoLite bearing durability

    Hi Titus Folks,
    I am a Santa Cruz Blur rider and am getting a little fed up with the constant bearing/pivot maintenance and am considering a MotoLite to replace it. I understand the ML uses bushings and bearings and was wondering how well they hold up and if they creak much? Thanks much.

  2. #2
    thats right living legend
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    You'll forget all about em.

    With proper maintenance they run silent.... as silent as any?

  3. #3
    I rode 'Whistler XC'
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    How much maintenance are you guys having to do on the Blur's?

    A friend of a friend just sold his Blur to get a Superlight because he is sick of maintenance.

    I've done one strip and lube on my ML rear suspension, including removing the bearing seals and regreasing in the 15 months I've had mine and have done several VERY wet and muddy rides in that time.

    No hassles yet....touch wood
    If I wanted your opinion I'd give it to you

  4. #4
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    EJBlur, you've come to the right place !~!

    No worries. Moto Lites don't creak. They perform

    Get some TitusAid, it will solve that creaky blur problem

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain
    EJBlur, you've come to the right place !~!

    No worries. Moto Lites don't creak. They perform

    Get some TitusAid, it will solve that creaky blur problem
    I may just have to do that, although it will require changing my MTBR user name ;-)

    What is your opinion on the value of ML vs. ML2 and do you know what the weight savings are of the ML2? Is the ML still being made or are they leftover models from '06?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by MintSauce
    How much maintenance are you guys having to do on the Blur's?

    A friend of a friend just sold his Blur to get a Superlight because he is sick of maintenance.

    I've done one strip and lube on my ML rear suspension, including removing the bearing seals and regreasing in the 15 months I've had mine and have done several VERY wet and muddy rides in that time.

    No hassles yet....touch wood
    It's a constant battle...the bolts never stay tight, crankset has to be removed to tighten lower pivots, and pivot axles creak a lot, even if the bearings are good. Which means punching out the axles, cleaning, regreasing, etc. I love working on my bike, but this is just ridiculous.

  7. #7
    Veni Vidi Vici
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    Worry free... you will miss working on your bike

  8. #8
    Hueston Woods Trail Crew
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    Ml/ml2

    Quote Originally Posted by EJBlur
    I may just have to do that, although it will require changing my MTBR user name ;-)

    What is your opinion on the value of ML vs. ML2 and do you know what the weight savings are of the ML2? Is the ML still being made or are they leftover models from '06?
    For 2007, the all-aluminum ML comes only in copper powdercoat as part of the Motolite Complete package. Because Titus is temporarily out of stock of copper frames, they are substituting the carbon ML2 in green or black at a great deal until they run out, or the ML's show up.
    With the ML2, you'll save about 210g (thanks to hyroformed lowers, carbon uppers and rockers), and get the RP23 (vs RP2) rear shock, and anodized finish (with the black frame).

    Can we call you EJMoto? Titus already has an EJ working for them.

  9. #9
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikerbob.com
    For 2007, the all-aluminum ML comes only in copper powdercoat as part of the Motolite Complete package. Because Titus is temporarily out of stock of copper frames, they are substituting the carbon ML2 in green or black at a great deal until they run out, or the ML's show up.
    With the ML2, you'll save about 210g (thanks to hyroformed lowers, carbon uppers and rockers), and get the RP23 (vs RP2) rear shock, and anodized finish (with the black frame).

    Can we call you EJMoto? Titus already has an EJ working for them.
    wow..that sounds like it could be a great deal

  10. #10
    Paper or plastic?
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    Used my ML for a little over 2 years. I never touched the bearings (not even once) and I had them changed by the LBS a couple months back. Most of them were in good shape.
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  11. #11
    "El Whatever"
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    Same here... 2004 Switchblade and bearings are still in top form.

    Only the delrin bushings on the HL pivot need replacement. They're too brittle now, but still doing their job with no play in them.

    By the finish of the rain season around here, I'll swap them. But so far, so good.
    Check my Site

  12. #12
    Spring! Spring! Spring!
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    Not a MotoLite, but I've an '03 QuasiMoto (essentially the same pivot bearings and such) and have replaced bearings once in the time I have owned the bike. It has a ton of miles logged, dry, wet, sandy, muddy, rocky, whatever.

    I have broken one main pivot bolt, it was like the 10th time I fell on the rocks, and ended up landing on top of the bike. Go figure, sheard off the bolt at the threads.

    Very infrequently, as in very very infrequently, as in <1 per year, I've had the main pivot bolt start backing out. Depending upon your crankset/chainring combo you may be able to tighten it w/o removing the cranks but I can't.

    Other people have had issues with the rear-pivot (horst-link) bolts working loose. Some loc-tite on those bad boys seems to be the cure. Mine are not lock-tit'd and I've never had them worm out on me.

  13. #13
    Where is my mind?
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    Sounds like you guys are not trying hard enough. Just got a call from my local bike shop that on the main pivot (behind BB), one pair of bearings were shot and one of them even fell apart upon removal. I've had the bike for almost a year and a half so I guess it was well due for a replacement set.

    Hey Warp, thanks for the tip. It never would have occurred to me to check or replace them. Who knows what kind of disaster I just avoided.
    "'I refuse to prove that I exist,' says god, 'for proof denies faith and without faith I am nothing'"

    - Douglas Adams: "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"

  14. #14
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclopod
    Sounds like you guys are not trying hard enough. Just got a call from my local bike shop that on the main pivot (behind BB), one pair of bearings were shot and one of them even fell apart upon removal. I've had the bike for almost a year and a half so I guess it was well due for a replacement set.

    Hey Warp, thanks for the tip. It never would have occurred to me to check or replace them. Who knows what kind of disaster I just avoided.
    Nothing to thank for, bro...
    Check my Site

  15. #15
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    I had to have my lower rear bushings replaced after about a year. My shock bushing went bad and I think that is what caused the lower bushings to go bad.

  16. #16
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    I rode up next to some guy on a Blur yesterday. I actually felt bad. His bike was making so much noise I couldn't believe it. He had a look on his face like somebody just kicked his dog.


  17. #17
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    Bearings holding up well....

    Quote Originally Posted by EJBlur
    Hi Titus Folks,
    I am a Santa Cruz Blur rider and am getting a little fed up with the constant bearing/pivot maintenance and am considering a MotoLite to replace it. I understand the ML uses bushings and bearings and was wondering how well they hold up and if they creak much? Thanks much.
    on an early 2005 ML... three riding seasons and still no need for a bearing replacement. I've never had a creak. It can get pretty wet and muddy where I live and the bearings do get contaminated badly. I service them about 2 to 3 times a season as preventative maintainance. The swing link bearings and horst link bushings are in great shape, but the main pivot bearings have gotten more notchy thru time.

    Regards,

    EndUser
    My advice and $3 will buy you nothing more than a tunafish sandwich.

  18. #18
    club très grand de VTT
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    Ulp! The idea of doing bearing maintenance wasn't even on my radar scope. I will have to hunt for a guide on how to perform this.

    I suppose that this is a ringing endorsement for the ML bearings - certainly no creaks, lack of smoothness, or anything in my 8 months of ownership despite our tropical dusty, muddy and wet conditions.

    PS: if anyone has such a guide to hand it would be appreciated



    Cheers,

    P.
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    Last edited by pongee; 07-18-2007 at 10:34 PM. Reason: Wanted to show off my ride :-)
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  19. #19
    I rode 'Whistler XC'
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    Mmm....not a good idea to wait till the day before you leave for Whistler to check them. Was reading this thread again and decided to pull my swinglinks and the top bearings are both slightly rough. They're ok, but getting to the end.

    Will rip all four out now and replace to be sure. I'm pretty sure the main pivot bearings and horst-link bushes should be fine. Don't have time to rip the entire suspension apart. My RX ran for 3yrs without needing to touch anything so I'm pretty confident they'll be fine. Touch wood!
    If I wanted your opinion I'd give it to you

  20. #20
    Paste eater
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    Over a year and 1/2 in Maine (read real wet) with not a single creek! Santa Cruz and intense guys around here seem like they are always doing some sort of pivot maintenance.

  21. #21
    Spring! Spring! Spring!
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    Quote Originally Posted by pongee
    PS: if anyone has such a guide to hand it would be appreciated
    It's not ML specific, but I have a copy of the old Quasi-Moto web-user-manual online as a PDF file, it includes instructions on doing bearing swaps. The only difference bearing-wise would be the shock linkage - the horst and main-pivot are AFAIK identical between the two.

    http://www.bearandwife.com/bear/cycl...oto-manual.pdf

    BTW: Most material in that PDF was published originally by Titus on their web site, too bad they took it down. They have the RacerX "manual" online but it's a lot more lean than this. I've also added information about hardware and stuff that is possibly specific to the Quasi-Moto so don't get confused on that score, eh?

  22. #22
    Where is my mind?
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    So I have a question. Titus, clearly does not make the bearings themselves. Clearly they picked a good set. Or is it that the stress load on the 4-bar suspension system less stressing than a VPP or similar type of suspension system.

    From what I've read, stainless steel bearings are probably the best for suspension bearings (I'm not ready to jump on the ceramic bearing bandwagon). So are Enduro bearings, employed by Titus the best on the market? Or are there better choices?
    "'I refuse to prove that I exist,' says god, 'for proof denies faith and without faith I am nothing'"

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  23. #23
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclopod
    So I have a question. Titus, clearly does not make the bearings themselves. Clearly they picked a good set. Or is it that the stress load on the 4-bar suspension system less stressing than a VPP or similar type of suspension system.

    From what I've read, stainless steel bearings are probably the best for suspension bearings (I'm not ready to jump on the ceramic bearing bandwagon). So are Enduro bearings, employed by Titus the best on the market? Or are there better choices?
    Yes... VPP, Maestro and other short linkages suspension are more prone to overstress the bearings/bushings. However, there are many factors involved, such as the diameter of bearings and the way the whole system is structurally designed.

    IH recently introduced bigger bearings at some of their pivot points. Some others are using now needle bearings which are better suited for suspension duties. However, one of the best solutions and for sure the cheaper is the bushing, which is used on our HL pivots and all points on Turners.

    Then you have bearing selection. Not all bearings are created equal.

    Titus uses Enduro Bearings. Enduro bearings are very good quality and the seals used on them is above the "industry standard" (2RS - rubber seals on both sides, with contact on the inner race) being them LLU or LLB (Full contact seals).

    http://www.endurobearings.com/produc...ec-3_tech.html

    Also, the standard four bearing set-up on the main pivot is very solid (some would say overkill).

    You can replace the Enduros with any other bearing from a bearing manufacturer, with the same number and markings. However, stay away from any bearing made at other countries but Germany, USA, Sweden, Japan, UK, Czech Republic and Mexico (yes, our bearings are top notch) as the manufacture is not that good.

    A safe bet is to buy from brands like SKF, F A G, Timken/Torrington, INA, etc.
    Check my Site

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJBlur
    Hi Titus Folks,
    I am a Santa Cruz Blur rider and am getting a little fed up with the constant bearing/pivot maintenance and am considering a MotoLite to replace it. I understand the ML uses bushings and bearings and was wondering how well they hold up and if they creak much? Thanks much.
    I won't knock the ML as it a great bike and I did purchase an ML2 for the wife in Dec. She loves it. However, having said that I have an 07 Nomad with over 1,000 hard miles on it and the bearings have yet to creak. Numerous other folks on the SC board report the same experience under much harder use and higher mileages. Before your replace a frame that has presumably served you well you might want to take a look at a new pro-pack with the bearing seals (at least I believe the newest Blur pack has inner seals). Lube the new axles in the Pro Pack with anti-seize and torque to spec. I check my lower pivots about once every three months and re-torque to spec. They are seldom much out of spec. The whole process takes about 15-20 min. and includes a check on all of the pivot points.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain_Man
    I won't knock the ML as it a great bike and I did purchase an ML2 for the wife in Dec. She loves it. However, having said that I have an 07 Nomad with over 1,000 hard miles on it and the bearings have yet to creak. Numerous other folks on the SC board report the same experience under much harder use and higher mileages. Before your replace a frame that has presumably served you well you might want to take a look at a new pro-pack with the bearing seals (at least I believe the newest Blur pack has inner seals). Lube the new axles in the Pro Pack with anti-seize and torque to spec. I check my lower pivots about once every three months and re-torque to spec. They are seldom much out of spec. The whole process takes about 15-20 min. and includes a check on all of the pivot points.
    Too late...I just bought a Silver ML2 today! Can't wait to swap out the parts and take it for a ride. Buying a propack and replacing all the bearings and axles on a 2 month old frame is a little crazy IMO. I already replaced one bearing that went bad in the first two months and anti-seized an axle but now the lower pivot is creaking. I have a torque wrench and check them religiously, although it seems that even Santa Cruz is not sure what they should be as they just increased the torque values by about 30%. I owned a classic blur for 3 years and had the same issues....I'm done! Perhaps the design/extra rigidity of the Nomad puts less stress on the bearings. Not every Blur owner has issues, so perhaps they are lucky and got a 'good' bike or perhaps its a weight isssue with heavier riders having more issues. Afterall, the same bearings support the suspension whether you are a 100 lb woman on an XS or a 200 lb man on an XL. Thanks everyone for your advice and opinions...I'll post pictures soon and who do I contact to change my username?

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