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Thread: ML vs EL G

  1. #1
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    ML vs EL G

    I thought about continuing the fired up thread, but decided it may be better to just start a new one.

    I am in the process of purchasing a new bike. My old bike has treated me well, but my main problem is that is just too small for me. I am starting to get pains in my back, shoulders, etc. I had narrowed it down to a few with the ML being at the top of my list. I did the Comp Cyclist rental for a week (Large #42) and took it everywhere I could (Oak Mtn., Swayback Bridge, Hurrican Creek, trails around my house) to try to get a feel for the bike. After the end of the Demo I was sold, so much so that I almost despise riding my current bike now after knowing what I could be on. I was expecting a marshmallow feel moving from a 3Ē bike to a 5Ē bike (as I have experienced with some of my buddies bikes) but was blown away by the solid feel and I actually looked to make sure the center shock was not locked out.

    This bike seemed to handle everything I would normally have access to ride with ease, so I have been waiting for Titus to get back to me with a custom size. They just got back and now I am reading Whafeís posts how he would buy the El G over the ML in a heartbeat. I donít even pretend to be as skilled a rider as he, but should I be looking at the El G instead?

    First I would like to say that I love flying through the winding singletrack so handling is very important to me and currently I do not see myself doing anything much over 4í drops. There is no point to buying more bike than I need, but if this bike handles just as well with a minimum of weight difference I would like to know. I would like to know the differences in weight (really the frame and shocks as the rest of the bike can be set up about the same) if anyone has been able to weigh one.

    This should get things started, I will provide more info as needed.

    Thanks,
    Chris

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandals
    I would like to know the differences in weight
    Thanks,
    Chris
    I haven't weighed one, but the difference is equal or less than a full pound.

    The ML sits at 6.2-6.5 pounds (I'm positive under 6.5#), while the EG sits at slightly over 7#.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    I haven't weighed one, but the difference is equal or less than a full pound.

    The ML sits at 6.2-6.5 pounds (I'm positive under 6.5#), while the EG sits at slightly over 7#.
    all I can figure is that the frame weight changes a lot from Size to Size. my guapo (large, painted) was mid seven pounds without a shock. its over 8 with a shock.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    I haven't weighed one, but the difference is equal or less than a full pound.

    The ML sits at 6.2-6.5 pounds (I'm positive under 6.5#), while the EG sits at slightly over 7#.

    Uhmm, I like its like over a pound and a half if you are comparing ML2 vs EG.
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  5. #5
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    Sandals = you are indeed in a predicament.... As I said, if I was going to buy a new bike right now, it would be an EL G, that is not a flippant comment by me either. I have a very very cool, in all aspects ExoGrid ML.

    Some weeks ago I was really in a bind and all tense and stressed which is really dumb as to why people are building really light 6 inch travel bikes... Still am a little perplexed.... Best case and you may have read the post was re FM, he sold his ML and purchased a Turner RFX, he also owns a HighLine. The RFX has 0.7 inch less travel than the HL, I was thinking sheesh, why is FM getting a bike so close to the HL and he was building it quite light for his main AM bike to trail ride.....

    After having the weekend on the El G, my thoughts are more clear to me. I can understand FM's logic far more... Kind of a shame that FM didnt get the chance to thrash an EL G, before making his purchase, anyways, he is a happy camper and that what is most important....

    So leads me to thinking... A weekend on an EL G, the bike pedals as well as my ML, cannot really tell it is 3 pounds heavier, climbs fantastic. By this I dont mean like when you hear people say, oh yeah my VP Free, Uzzi etc etc pedals ok. (They could be bad examples, am not comparing the EL G to these bikes, meaning the drift of climbing) But the EL G climbs like a AM ride, with ease.... Has a slack HA, which id great when the nose is pointed down hill, a 160 mm fork, the bike does nto at all get light in the front when climbing. Has a great feel in the cockpit for me, I really felt in the bike...

    I am digressing..... Am not at all trying to sell you an El G..... I am saying, really consider the El G in your search, it may even be worth while contacting Ryan at Competitive Cyclist and demo an EL G, he may even put the credit of your ML demo and El G demo together if you buy a frame still......

    Let us knwo your plans, be keen to hear which way you go.....

    All I can say is roll on a Ti El G, someone can then buy my ExoGrid ML and I will be happy... Sorry Ti, do not wish to build the ML into a light XC speed demon.... Getting too many bikes in the stable..

    So "Its All Good" "Todo Bien"..
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

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    I'll be demo'ing the El Guapo in a week or so, and currently have owned a Ti ML for a long enough while to know the bike well. I'll be sure to input my feelings into this thread. I am in the same boat as you- never more than 4' drops, mostly rocky rooty ST with the occasional shuttle run every month or so. So far, the moto has performed well beyond my expectations, but I want to keep an open mind on the new "big bike" offering from the boys in AZ.

  7. #7
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    G Duke, look forward to your thoughts, helps me evaluate if I am crazy or not..... Which I need to do regularily..... Am like you, but was blown out by this El G puppy....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  8. #8
    the 36 year old grom
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    Whafe,
    I think El Guapo is crack for ML riders.... the bikes compliment each other so well. When I was running my SuMo and My ML, I was never able to find a riding style that worked for both bikes, the transition from riding one to the other was always a tiny bit awakward. the geomtry was just different.
    So don't toss your ML yet, they work great as a pair. it still does some things better then the guapo. The guapo pedals good but its not as good as the ML. the first 2 weeks I had the guapo, I was feeling the same as you. I even started doing all my hillclimb training on it , but my buddies talked some sense into me, I was going to ride the guapo in the downieville XC and then DH race with it on sunday. But, I did the XC on the ML and it rocked my world.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    Whafe,
    I think El Guapo is crack for ML riders.... the bikes compliment each other so well. When I was running my SuMo and My ML, I was never able to find a riding style that worked for both bikes, the transition from riding one to the other was always a tiny bit awakward. the geomtry was just different.
    So don't toss your ML yet, they work great as a pair. it still does some things better then the guapo. The guapo pedals good but its not as good as the ML. the first 2 weeks I had the guapo, I was feeling the same as you. I even started doing all my hillclimb training on it , but my buddies talked some sense into me, I was going to ride the guapo in the downieville XC and then DH race with it on sunday. But, I did the XC on the ML and it rocked my world.
    mmmmmm demo, like normal, you speak some wisdom. I could well just have a whole heap of wood in my life....

    It will be interesting to ride the ML again... I guess my long post above I was trying to state that having 6 inches and adaptable is a great thing...If I could only have one bike, it would be an El G, for my styles though.....

    Interesting times having the El G come on the scene....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

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    Golfduke - If you are going to demo one very soon I may wait and get one more opinion.

    Whafe - I would like to hear an update after riding your ML again. However I know how I thought I would feel about my old bike after the ML and that did not change much after riding it.

    I appreciate everyone's feedback, And I am currently leaning more toward the ML as I believe the El G may be more bike than I need. 90% of my riding would be more XC than AM (Well, I consider it XC) so I am pretty sure 5" of travel is plenty. However if the extra travel only comes with a 1.5 lb weight penalty it would be really nice to know it is there if I ever needed it.

    I am a bit of a weight weenie as far as wanting a light bike. Otherwise the El G would probably be a no brainer. I feel I can easily build a sub 28lb ML (I am looking to drop about a pound off of what my current bike weighs). I can feel a 2lb difference between my bike and one of my riding buddies' bikes (especially on the longer rides) and of course the lighter bike is easier to throw around.

    Currently I was quoted 8-10 Weeks on the ML, so i wouln't have it till the end of September anyway. Waiting another week or two before I decide is not really a big deal.

  11. #11
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    You'll love owning the ML. Even though you already demoed from CC so it prob won't matter to you Cahaba Cycles has plenty of Moto-Lites in all sizes.

    Also if your planing on waiting that long anyway Titus will be at Oak Mnt Aug 18, so you can demo an EG just in case.

    You'd easily be able to build up a ML to 26 lb's if ya wanted too.

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    aren't both horst link pivots? If so, both will be very flexy. i would look at a better design if you care about stiffness of the frame. if it does not matter to you then either will be a fair bike.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faux Part Deux
    aren't both horst link pivots? If so, both will be very flexy. i would look at a better design if you care about stiffness of the frame. if it does not matter to you then either will be a fair bike.
    Agghhh Faux..... You know that the rare on a Titus is stiffer than a honeymooners choppa... It needs no more dicussion.....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faux Part Deux
    aren't both horst link pivots? If so, both will be very flexy. i would look at a better design if you care about stiffness of the frame. if it does not matter to you then either will be a fair bike.
    You're right... go 29 and get Aqua Air Time !~!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    Agghhh Faux..... You know that the rare on a Titus is stiffer than a honeymooners choppa... It needs no more dicussion.....
    I'll give you stiff

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    BA - I am working with Cahaba Cycles on this. I asked them about a demo and they said they couldn't do it so I got one where I could. I didn't want to get a bike without really riding it. Parking lot riding doesn't exactly give you a feel for a bike.

    I don't want to take anything away from Comp Cyclist as their demo really sold me on the ML. They did have decent components on the bike and I was quite supprised on how smooth their demo program was. If I was not already working with Cahaba, I would have definately bought from them.

    FPD - Apparantly I have never ridden a stiff frame bike because the titus blew me away for how solid it felt.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandals
    BA - I am working with Cahaba Cycles on this. I asked them about a demo and they said they couldn't do it so I got one where I could. I didn't want to get a bike without really riding it. Parking lot riding doesn't exactly give you a feel for a bike.

    I don't want to take anything away from Comp Cyclist as their demo really sold me on the ML. They did have decent components on the bike and I was quite supprised on how smooth their demo program was. If I was not already working with Cahaba, I would have definately bought from them.

    FPD - Apparantly I have never ridden a stiff frame bike because the titus blew me away for how solid it felt.
    i was joshing.....Titus makes great bikes. Not that I own one.....yet

  18. #18
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    Sandals - You will learn the ways of Faux, that was a term of endearment re the Titus..... Faux knows he wants a Titus Ti 29er SS... So its all good............
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandals
    BA - I am working with Cahaba Cycles on this. I asked them about a demo and they said they couldn't do it so I got one where I could. I didn't want to get a bike without really riding it. Parking lot riding doesn't exactly give you a feel for a bike.

    I don't want to take anything away from Comp Cyclist as their demo really sold me on the ML. They did have decent components on the bike and I was quite supprised on how smooth their demo program was. If I was not already working with Cahaba, I would have definately bought from them.

    FPD - Apparantly I have never ridden a stiff frame bike because the titus blew me away for how solid it felt.

    Good deal!


    and don't worry Titus bike are well known/legendary for their stiffness. Faux just knows right where to hit.

    cause he's a penis.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    Sandals - You will learn the ways of Faux, that was a term of endearment re the Titus..... Faux knows he wants a Titus Ti 29er SS... So its all good............
    the current plan calls more likely for a 29er FS.....where under Plan A, a Racer X would be in the running....

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faux Part Deux
    aren't both horst link pivots? If so, both will be very flexy. i would look at a better design if you care about stiffness of the frame. if it does not matter to you then either will be a fair bike.
    Wrong on this frame (the ML). HL tends to be flexier, so builders need to take that into consideration when designing and building a frame. Titus did it right. It is very lateraly stiff, no doubt to me about it. And I'm like 230 lbs plus gear (and I don't carry a light backpack), and not the smoothest guy out there, and it's amazing.

    I don't buy only on the rear design and judge everything by it. Oh.. it's a superduperpivots, so it must be this.. or that. Each particular bike design and manufacture is different.

    It might not be as stiff as a Ventana (I haven't ridden one, and I don't like to talk about something I haven't tried yet), but at least my ML it is very, very good in that regard.

    Edit:
    Faux, as usual, sometimes I don't read the entire posts before I open my mouth.... alls good

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    Sandals I am demoing the Guap in some local trail next Weds. I'll be sure to throw my thoughts into the mix in order to help. It sounds like your riding style fits the ML perfectly though, just from my computer chair analysis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golfduke
    Sandals I am demoing the Guap in some local trail next Weds. I'll be sure to throw my thoughts into the mix in order to help. It sounds like your riding style fits the ML perfectly though, just from my computer chair analysis.

    Are you ready to lay it down n the Guap?

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    Tminus 6 days... I'm gonna pound that thing like a fat kid on a cupcake. I'm a little afraid though, if I come home with another frame, wifey is gonna be sleeping with the pool boy while her lawyers serve me divorce papers.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by golfduke
    Tminus 6 days... I'm gonna pound that thing like a fat kid on a cupcake. I'm a little afraid though, if I come home with another frame, wifey is gonna be sleeping with the pool boy while her lawyers serve me divorce papers.
    Been there done that, beat like it wants to be beaten..

    Know that feeling well with the wifey...

    I had that problem, the enjoyment of the demo ride, causes many other problems....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    Been there done that, beat like it wants to be beaten..

    Know that feeling well with the wifey...

    I had that problem, the enjoyment of the demo ride, causes many other problems....
    Were you able to gage any diffrence in handling in the air, from your ML?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    Were you able to gage any diffrence in handling in the air, from your ML?
    BA, not a huge amount, to me it felt ok, I felt with the different feeling of the cockpit that EL G felt good in the air...Trails were not really good for big amounts of air... It did feel balanced to me though too.... From 4 foot to flat I enjoyed, was a good feeling bike...
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  28. #28
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    EG & ML build differently...

    Sandals,

    I have an El Guapo & a Supermoto, my wife has a MototLite, and two friends here have MotoLites. A couple points:

    Disclaimer: being stuck with a 37-40 lb "do-it-all" SuMo for years, a major priority to me is losing weight and gaining efficiency. You're coming from a light 3" travel bike, so we're in very different places.

    1) My El G frame was over 8 lbs on a fishing scale, which is not as accurate as the shop scale. So there certainly is a bit of weight penalty over the ML.

    2) IMO the El G begs for a much beefier build than you'd put on a ML. Again, this is my opinion. My build w/ 66SL fork (5.7lbs) heavy wheels (Hugi FR hubs/ EX823) and tires (UST Minion DHF/DHR) came in at 35lbs, 8 oz. I repace the tires w/ lighter Fat Albet & NBX UST and it's now 34 lbs 14 oz. If I throw another $800 at it for an I9 wheelset It should drop to about 33lbs. Really, with a fork like the 66 or 36, are you going to want to run light XC tires?

    3) While the El G certainly dose pedal much better than the SuMo I've been using as my "trail" bike for the past years, it's still not as light nor as efficient as a MotoLite! The El G is perfect for me because of our terrain and riding style: an "AM" ride to us involves not only strenuous climbs, but also as many 3-4 foot hucks and drops as possible - mostly to flat slickrock - a bit much for the ML. I've also been using the El G on steep rocky loose terrain we didn't touch w/o our bigger bikes (SuMo) a few years ago. The EL G built as "SuMoLite" has been wonderful for this! However, if I did not live right in this amazingly abussive terrain, and if I did not search out these high-impact events, I personally would not chose an El G over a ML. In fact, as exstatic as I am with my EG, I still fully intend to build a sub 30lb Exo ML for the buff singletrack trail riding found in 90% of the places I ride outside of home - Colorado, Utah, Idaho, Nor Cal... I love all day 40 mile rides!

    4) On the flip side, having a bigger bike tends to encourage us to step up to "bigger terrain". If you are excited to grow into what this bike can do, then by all means consider it! My SuMo was the best investment I ever made, for exactly this reason.

    So the questions I think you need to focus on are basically "how would the builds differ", "do the trails I ride / my needs warrent the extra weight" and "am I excited to grow into a bigger biker bike?"

    my 2 cents... Good luck!
    Last edited by Rollin'in'Zona; 07-19-2007 at 12:54 PM.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollin'in'Zona
    my 2 cents... Good luck!
    RNZ
    Threadjack alert!

    Evolver report please.

    edit: just read your "SuMoLite" thread...still using the constipated Pearl. Let us know about the Evolver when you get it.
    Last edited by geolover; 07-19-2007 at 12:52 PM.
    Extreme stationary biker.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    RNZ
    Threadjack alert!

    Evolver report please.

    edit: just read your "SuMoLite" thread...still using the constipated Pearl. Let us know about the Evolver when you get it.
    Hey Geo,

    No Evolver yet! They had the ISX-4, not the 6, so it'll be another week or two? I'm glad to have time on the Pearl, actually. This will make for a more accurate comparison.

    I assure you, I'll start a new thread after a couple rides with it

  31. #31
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    Thanks for the info guys.
    Right now the trails I would be riding on do not warrant getting the El G, as well as me not wanting to have a bike over 30 lbs. Maybe in a few years I will be looking for something more cushy and the extra weight will not bother me, but for now I have decided to go ahead with the ML. I went ahead and got it on order. Itís going to be hard to wait till the end of September to finally get her.

    Thanks again,
    Chris

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    nice decision man, I am sure you won't regret it.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandals
    Thanks for the info guys.
    Right now the trails I would be riding on do not warrant getting the El G, as well as me not wanting to have a bike over 30 lbs. Maybe in a few years I will be looking for something more cushy and the extra weight will not bother me, but for now I have decided to go ahead with the ML. I went ahead and got it on order. Itís going to be hard to wait till the end of September to finally get her.

    Thanks again,
    Chris
    Sounds good! I have no doubt that the Moto will have you covered for a long time should you start leaning towards EG type stuff in the future, and if and when your ready by than it might be time for something new again anyway.

    BTW did you say you recently hit up Hurricane Creek? I was up there about two yrs ago, and it was interesting, but not near ready for prime time due to the guy building it not yet having enough completed. I' called up there a couple times this summer, and the guy on the phone said it was about ready and to come up and check it out. So what did ya think? Was it worth the drive? For me back than it prob wasn't, but it had some serious potential and a pretty sick little DH run.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    .....EG type stuff....
    and what exactly is "EG type stuff"? or are we really talking about MOST of us simply having a bike that is already way over our head in terms of what it can handle....but we just like to be handle the stuff we normally do, easier? That is my guess....I guess I should tell some of my hardtail riding friends they should not be doing some of the trails they are currently riding unless they get a 6" travel FS bike......

    if i were a betting man, which i aint cuz my wife takes all my money, i would say that the rider has something to do with it, but i could be wrong....dunno

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faux Part Deux
    and what exactly is "EG type stuff"? or are we really talking about MOST of us simply having a bike that is already way over our head in terms of what it can handle....but we just like to be handle the stuff we normally do, easier? That is my guess....I guess I should tell some of my hardtail riding friends they should not be doing some of the trails they are currently riding unless they get a 6" travel FS bike......

    if i were a betting man, which i aint cuz my wife takes all my money, i would say that the rider has something to do with it, but i could be wrong....dunno
    Its always the rider.... At times we want one that is built for speed, at other times we want one built for a comfy ride, and then again there are ones build well you know for a plush plush squeedgy ride...............Maybe silicon is like the bike equiv to pro pedal.....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faux Part Deux
    and what exactly is "EG type stuff"? or are we really talking about MOST of us simply having a bike that is already way over our head in terms of what it can handle....but we just like to be handle the stuff we normally do, easier? That is my guess....I guess I should tell some of my hardtail riding friends they should not be doing some of the trails they are currently riding unless they get a 6" travel FS bike......

    if i were a betting man, which i aint cuz my wife takes all my money, i would say that the rider has something to do with it, but i could be wrong....dunno
    Yes that's exactly what I meant.



    Or mabye I'm talking about a trail bike that is your one and only, that you can take on any trail (just as some can an XC HT) yet go and hit that loading dock or whatever else fun, fun play around BMX track, hidden nieghborhood ladder drop.... what have you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    Its always the rider.... At times we want one that is built for speed, at other times we want one built for a comfy ride, and then again there are ones build well you know for a plush plush squeedgy ride...............Maybe silicon is like the bike equiv to pro pedal.....
    I always heard you liked it plush and squeedgy

  38. #38
    thats right living legend
    Reputation: blackagness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faux Part Deux
    I always heard you liked it plush and squeedgy
    I always heard you liked hard and stiff?

  39. #39
    this account retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    I always heard you liked hard and stiff?
    no, but your mom does

  40. #40
    thats right living legend
    Reputation: blackagness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faux Part Deux
    no, but your mom does
    My mom doesn't ride, but I heard your mom does, and likes to run 12" in the rear.... I think I'm gonna buy her that T-shirt next time I see her?

    She likes when I give her gifts.... or money.

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