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  1. #1
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    ML from Stumpy FSR

    just curious if any of you ML riders came from or currently also ride a Stumpy FSR, and what your thoughts are on both bikes. these two are at the top of my list for a new aggro XC bike, and i really like both, just trying to get some more insight from people with considerably more saddle time. thanks

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    Do it now...you will never regret it.

    I went from a 2004 S-Works enduro to a Motolite and the difference is incredible:

    - The ML climbs better
    - The ML descends better
    - The ML is far stiffer
    - The ML suspension is plusher
    - The head angle is slacker making it more confidence inspiring on the descent. You may need to adjust your technique slightly on steel climbs due to the slacker head angle, but it took me all of 5 mins.

    The stiffness and efficiency of the suspension really make this thing climb like a mountain goat and descend like a greased weasel.

    Nothing bad yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikey74
    I went from a 2004 S-Works enduro to a Motolite and the difference is incredible:
    I think the comparison is between Stumpy FSR vs. MotoLite, not the Enduro...
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by salimoneus
    just curious if any of you ML riders came from or currently also ride a Stumpy FSR, and what your thoughts are on both bikes. these two are at the top of my list for a new aggro XC bike, and i really like both, just trying to get some more insight from people with considerably more saddle time. thanks
    I went from a 04 Stumpy FSR to a 05 Moto Lite. The Stumpy was 4", so it might have changed a bit (120 vs 100 mm travel). I just think that the ML is plain better, more responsive, to the Stumpy, but both are really good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blatido
    I think the comparison is between Stumpy FSR vs. MotoLite, not the Enduro...

    Yeah I am curious on this topic as well as I currently ride a 05 Stumpy FSR expert. I like the bike alot, dont get me wrong but kinda want something more plush for rocky descents etc. but light enough for XC too. Not sure if the difference is great enough to warrant a change in bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blatido
    I think the comparison is between Stumpy FSR vs. MotoLite, not the Enduro...

    From what I can recall an 04 Enduro would be a very good comparison to a ML. Whichever, the ML would be supirieor in evey way particularly stiffness.

    But the Spec has a great warrenty, and thier bikes are very good.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman69
    Not sure if the difference is great enough to warrant a change in bike.
    That's very subjective, bro.... I'd say the ML is clearly superior. But if that makes a significative difference to support the purchase, that's another ticket.

    I would say that you'd have to test ride. OTOH, if ain't broke, don't fix it! If you feel fine with the bike and find it hard to give the cash away; then your best option is your current bike.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    That's very subjective, bro.... I'd say the ML is clearly superior. But if that makes a significative difference to support the purchase, that's another ticket.

    I would say that you'd have to test ride. OTOH, if ain't broke, don't fix it! If you feel fine with the bike and find it hard to give the cash away; then your best option is your current bike.
    I hear what you are saying but have you ridden both types of bikes to form the opinion? the geometry of both look very similar. similar if not same travel and all. I just need more specifics to sway me to the Titus side. I know a test ride would be the best way to form my own opinion; but no bike store in my area carrys Titus demo. Trust me I WANT to believe the hype. Just would appreciate specifics to why it is superior from someone who has ridden both. Thanks

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman69
    I hear what you are saying but have you ridden both types of bikes to form the opinion? the geometry of both look very similar. similar if not same travel and all. I just need more specifics to sway me to the Titus side. I know a test ride would be the best way to form my own opinion; but no bike store in my area carrys Titus demo. Trust me I WANT to believe the hype. Just would appreciate specifics to why it is superior from someone who has ridden both. Thanks
    No.... I have not ridden both. I'm on a Switchblade and being on a ML for a very short stretch.

    I've just read what you've read here and seen them both in the flesh. I also share trail time with Rzoz, who indeed has ridden the ML and the '04 Stumpy.

    But the point of my post was the opposite to what you understood (maybe my redaction was not that clear, sorry; english is not my mother language).

    In layman terms... You don't have to believe the hype (especially if you don't want to). And hype is relative to each person. While for some people (like Rzoz, who had both bikes) it'll be worthy, for others it won't.

    In geometry... similar is not equal. For instance, the ML is a bit longer in TT and has a higher BB. Both of them account for significant differences in feel (note that I'm not even considering wheelbase and chainstay lenght).

    I'm not trying to uninformedly sway you to a Titus. However, from seeing both bikes in the flesh (as subjective as it may be), I dare to say the ML is better. The Stumpy is a great bike, btw.
    Last edited by Warp; 08-16-2006 at 02:42 PM. Reason: correction
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    No.... I have not ridden both. I'm on a Switchblade and being on a ML for a very short stretch.

    I've just read what you've read here and seen them both in the flesh. I also share trail time with Rzoz, who indeed has ridden the ML and the '04 Stumpy.

    But the point of my post was the opposite to what you understood (maybe my redaction was not that clear, sorry; english is not my mother language).

    In layman terms... You don't have to believe the hype (especially if you don't want to). And hype is relative to each person. While for some people (like Rzoz, who had both bikes) it'll be worthy, for others it won't.

    In geometry... similar is not equal. For instance, the ML is a bit longer in TT and has a higher BB. Both of them account for significant differences in feel (note that I'm not even considering wheelbase and chainstay lenght).

    I'm not trying to uninformedly sway you to a Titus. However, from seeing both bikes in the flesh (as subjective as it may be), I dare to say the ML is better. The Stumpy is a great bike, btw.


    I appreciate your input, so many suspension bike choices out there, gotta respect the feedback. Gracias

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman69
    I appreciate your input, so many suspension bike choices out there, gotta respect the feedback. Gracias
    Nothing to thank for, Bro. Au contraire, sorry for not being helpful.

    Yeah... choosing a bike is harder and harder each day. Too many choices, too many things to look after... as Blackagness said, Specialized's Warranty is an attractive one. The ML is arguably one of the best "bang-for-the-buck" options... phew! That's a tough call!
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    I considered the stumpy when I was shopping for an XC bike, but lack of tire clearance ruled it out early on. I also wanted to avoid an interrupted seat tube since I do like to drop my saddle- although these days you can put a GD seatpost on any frame and work around that.

    The motolite is really really good!

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    Quote Originally Posted by blatido
    I think the comparison is between Stumpy FSR vs. MotoLite, not the Enduro...
    I am well aware of what the comparison is. I was just adding my own experience of switching from one bike with a similar suspension set-up to the Stumpy FSR, albeit with more travel; to the ML.

    The fact that the Enduro is a longer travel, all round burlier bike than the stumpy will hopefully give the guy an impression of the style of bike that the ML is.

    IMO the ML is more comparable to the 2004 Enduro than the Stumpy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikey74

    IMO the ML is more comparable to the 2004 Enduro than the Stumpy.


    Very true...
    Last edited by blackagness; 08-17-2006 at 07:26 AM.

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    I sold my 04 S works epic and had no bike for a while.I wanted to buy a long travel bike that I could race once in a while. In the interm I was ridding my sons 05 fsr expert. That bike got me hooked on 5" travel bikes. I work in the industry and can get a deal on almost any brand. I rode them all, Yetti, santa cruiz, Specialized, c-dale, giant, Elsworth. I chose the moto light. The FSR is nice, And more plush, But cant climb as well as the titus and is not a stiff and does not handle as quick. The fsr seemed sluggish on excelleration as well.
    I ride most of the time in 5" mode but just did the Leadville trail 100 in 4" front and rear. The bike was great, NO complaints from me. I live in the rockies where every trail is steep up or steep down. this bike is perfect here.
    Also the stump just isnt holding up as well. After two seasons of ridding we are getting more flex and creeking than we should. I know my son is going to buy a new bike next season. I also know it wont be a moto-lite, he is a rebel. It looks like he is going for the Elsworth Epiphony or moment.
    Last edited by b2b2; 08-17-2006 at 07:51 PM.

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    thanks for the feedbacks, definitely helpful and good to hear others echo some of my own thoughts.

    i honestly could not make out any major distinctions between the two, although the ML did seem stiffer and a slightly better tech climber, and the stumpy did feel more plush at times, but the difference to me was so small that it could even be attributed to size/setup issues, very close all around.

    although i don't recall there being anything sluggish about the stumpy and haven't heard that before

    the lifetime warranty is really nice, and it's hard to beat the spesh service which i have experience with, but im sure Titus service is pretty solid as well. this is a tough one...

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    Quote Originally Posted by salimoneus
    thanks for the feedbacks, definitely helpful and good to hear others echo some of my own thoughts.

    i honestly could not make out any major distinctions between the two, although the ML did seem stiffer and a slightly better tech climber, and the stumpy did feel more plush at times, but the difference to me was so small that it could even be attributed to size/setup issues, very close all around.

    although i don't recall there being anything sluggish about the stumpy and haven't heard that before

    the lifetime warranty is really nice, and it's hard to beat the spesh service which i have experience with, but im sure Titus service is pretty solid as well. this is a tough one...


    I've ridden a Stumpy several times, and to me the performance diffrence was huge in every single way, in favor of the ML. But if that's all your getting out of the diffrence between the two, than I'd stick with the stumpy.

    I guess others could disagree, but depending on your build I see the ML more as an AM bike, while the Stump's more trail XC. But hey, that's just me...

  18. #18
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    seems to me that they both fall into that in-between XC/AM category no? regardless, i think labels are pretty useless, 5" of travel is 5" of travel

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    I've ridden a Stumpy several times, and to me the performance diffrence was huge in every single way, in favor of the ML. But if that's all your getting out of the diffrence between the two, than I'd stick with the stumpy.

    I guess others could disagree, but depending on your build I see the ML more as an AM bike, while the Stump's more trail XC. But hey, that's just me...


    Just curious what is the max size travel fork you can put on the Motolite??

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    Quote Originally Posted by salimoneus
    thanks for the feedbacks, definitely helpful and good to hear others echo some of my own thoughts.

    i honestly could not make out any major distinctions between the two, although the ML did seem stiffer and a slightly better tech climber, and the stumpy did feel more plush at times, but the difference to me was so small that it could even be attributed to size/setup issues, very close all around.

    although i don't recall there being anything sluggish about the stumpy and haven't heard that before

    the lifetime warranty is really nice, and it's hard to beat the spesh service which i have experience with, but im sure Titus service is pretty solid as well. this is a tough one...

    When people have just plunked down quite a bit of cash for a "botique" bike they generally want to justify the money, so they tend to over dramatize the differences, and to bash the mainstream brands. Just my opinion, but I think it's accurate. I see this all the time on the Titus/Turner/Ventana boards.

    That being said, I do think the Titus will have the edge in terms of stiffness and durability. They make some of the best bikes out there.

    Dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman69
    Just curious what is the max size travel fork you can put on the Motolite??
    They approve up to 140mm on the motolite.

    a2c of 530 feels good to me.....marzocchi AM series adjusted to 140mm travel...

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    Quote Originally Posted by salimoneus
    seems to me that they both fall into that in-between XC/AM category no? regardless, i think labels are pretty useless, 5" of travel is 5" of travel

    I've been meaning to get back to this. You couldn't be more wrong. Like the first Turner RFX, if I'm not mistaken was a 5" bike, intended for FR use. There are many other factors besides travel. Such as Wieght, geomatry, wheelbase, strength just to name a few.

    Would you put the "around" 5" Transition BottleRocket, or 4-5" Prestone in the same catagory with the ML... NO! Those are full on FR bikes.

    So in answer to your Q a 5" bike is not a 5" bike...

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightySchmoePong
    When people have just plunked down quite a bit of cash for a "botique" bike they generally want to justify the money, so they tend to over dramatize the differences, and to bash the mainstream brands. Just my opinion, but I think it's accurate. I see this all the time on the Titus/Turner/Ventana boards.

    That being said, I do think the Titus will have the edge in terms of stiffness and durability. They make some of the best bikes out there.

    Dave
    Yea I'm fairly new to some of the botiuque forums, but that assessment seems accurate from what I can tell so far

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightySchmoePong
    When people have just plunked down quite a bit of cash for a "botique" bike they generally want to justify the money, so they tend to over dramatize the differences, and to bash the mainstream brands. Just my opinion, but I think it's accurate. I see this all the time on the Titus/Turner/Ventana boards.

    That being said, I do think the Titus will have the edge in terms of stiffness and durability. They make some of the best bikes out there.

    Dave

    You can say that all day long, and it still won't make it true.

    My first 5" travel trail bike was a GF Cake I paid 1500 for. Which to me wether it's 1500 or 3000, it's all the same to me... ALOT!!! I wanted to like that bike from day one, but I never did. And I'd just dropped 1500 dollors!!!!

    I certanly diden't and wouldn't have recomeneded that bike to anyone. The Moto-Lite I have now??? I can't recomend enough...

    Does what you say have any truth to it... mabye. But not for me.

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    ...but, in this case these frames are about the same weight, and their designed applications are the same; which is a bit too heavy and slack angled for pro-class racing, a bit light and steep angled for all big jumps and drops.

    No doubt these bike frames fall into the same category regardless of travel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dulyebr
    ...but, in this case these frames are about the same weight, and their designed applications are the same; which is a bit too heavy and slack angled for pro-class racing, a bit light and steep angled for all big jumps and drops.

    No doubt these bike frames fall into the same category regardless of travel.

    I was just giving an extreme example. What I said about the diffrences between the ML and SJ, still stand. At the time the Moto first came out the SJ was at 4" anyway if memory serves. As far as I know all they did was add more travel...

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    I was just giving an extreme example. What I said about the diffrences between the ML and SJ, still stand. At the time the Moto first came out the SJ was at 4" anyway if memory serves. As far as I know all they did was add more travel...
    I think that Specialized also slackened a little bit the head angle in 2005 (I dont know if they did it again in 2006). I had a 04 SJ FSR and it was a very good bike, very stable, light. When I bought the ML it was more because I wanted one of the best bikes around, not because the SJ was a bad bike, which actually is a very good bike. I just think that the ML is a better bike to build on than a SJ. You have more options (you can go for a coil shock if you want, up to a 140mm travel fork), while the SJ is more fixed in that area (at least as far as I know, you can't change shock), and 120mm travel. Not a big difference, really.

    Both companies offer very good CS, they both look nice. About price, you can find similar priced builds. Well, there's some below 2,000 bucks SJ, but you can get some similar built priced (I don't know much about models on the SJ). I guess it depends on how you search for components. When I bought my ML, I paid around 3,100 for it. Now I've done some enhancements, (new shock, fork, stem, handlebar, saddle). Well, my original fork will go to a virtuall bike that I'm just waiting for the frame . I think that there are several aluminium SJ above that price.

    Also, yes, there is part of 'status' buying from a boutique bike than a mayor bike. It's like comparing a VW Passat to a Audi A4. You might get a Passat that is pretty much the same as an entry level A4, but it's still not an Audi When you compare a top of the line Passat to a top of the line A4, you'll notice the differences. To be honest, it's not proportional to the price difference. I don't feel my ML 1,900 bucks better than my SJ. But I don't think I'd feel that much of a difference between a $3,800 SJ to a $1,800 SJ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rzozaya1969
    I think that Specialized also slackened a little bit the head angle in 2005 (I dont know if they did it again in 2006). I had a 04 SJ FSR and it was a very good bike, very stable, light. When I bought the ML it was more because I wanted one of the best bikes around, not because the SJ was a bad bike, which actually is a very good bike. I just think that the ML is a better bike to build on than a SJ. You have more options (you can go for a coil shock if you want, up to a 140mm travel fork), while the SJ is more fixed in that area (at least as far as I know, you can't change shock), and 120mm travel. Not a big difference, really.
    i agree, having more options on the shock type and length are a plus, i just don't really see that as something i would take advantage of, i thought both rode great at the stock setup, and as you say the difference is pretty small anyway

    Quote Originally Posted by rzozaya1969
    Both companies offer very good CS, they both look nice. About price, you can find similar priced builds. Well, there's some below 2,000 bucks SJ, but you can get some similar built priced (I don't know much about models on the SJ). I guess it depends on how you search for components. When I bought my ML, I paid around 3,100 for it. Now I've done some enhancements, (new shock, fork, stem, handlebar, saddle). Well, my original fork will go to a virtuall bike that I'm just waiting for the frame . I think that there are several aluminium SJ above that price.
    i think you'll probably end up dropping a bit more on the Titus, but i think once above $2k on a bike a few hunned either way is insignificant, at least it should when buying a bike that you really want instead of sacrificing somewhere. if someone can afford a $2.5k bike they can afford a $3k bike

    Quote Originally Posted by rzozaya1969
    Also, yes, there is part of 'status' buying from a boutique bike than a mayor bike. It's like comparing a VW Passat to a Audi A4. You might get a Passat that is pretty much the same as an entry level A4, but it's still not an Audi When you compare a top of the line Passat to a top of the line A4, you'll notice the differences. To be honest, it's not proportional to the price difference. I don't feel my ML 1,900 bucks better than my SJ. But I don't think I'd feel that much of a difference between a $3,800 SJ to a $1,800 SJ.
    well, im not so sure that the car alalogy translates too well, since it's really only the frame and service that we're talking about, most everything else is shimano/sram/thompson/fox/whatever (ignoring the new spesh shocks, i think that's a dumb idea), and im not convinced there is all that much difference in the quality of the frames. in fact one is so confident in their frames they offer a lifetime warranty

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    Quote Originally Posted by salimoneus
    in fact one is so confident in their frames they offer a lifetime warranty
    I think that has much more to do w/ the size of the company vs. the quality of the frames. Specialized is a large company, and can afford to suck up the warantee issues.

    I'd also guess that the CS for Titus would be better than Specialized. We've seen many cases where people have called up and had parts sent out immediately to get someone up and riding again. Specialized is good, but being large there's more hassle getting things taken care of.

    Personally, I'd lay my bets on the Titus being the longer lasting, more durable bike.

    Dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by salimoneus

    well, im not so sure that the car alalogy translates too well, since it's really only the frame and service that we're talking about, most everything else is shimano/sram/thompson/fox/whatever (ignoring the new spesh shocks, i think that's a dumb idea), and im not convinced there is all that much difference in the quality of the frames. in fact one is so confident in their frames they offer a lifetime warranty
    I think it does translate, because the Passat has a lot of Audi stuff inside.

    I also believe in the lifetime warranty is more because Specialized can offer that because of their size, than of the quality. Do you think that if you kept the bike for 30 years, you could go to Spec and say, hey, this broke, replace it? I think it's more to give you a reason to buy one (hey, it's a valid one), that because they think it will last a lifetime. I think that, no matter how good care you give it, aluminium has a limited lifespan.

    And yes, both of the Titus and Spec frames I had looks pretty well made

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    Quote Originally Posted by rzozaya1969
    I think it does translate, because the Passat has a lot of Audi stuff inside.
    i guess im not seeing it then. so you are saying the spesh has a lot of ML stuff on it? no don't think so, it still doesn't translate. we're talking about two frames from different companies, that both use someone else's components. so it's really just frames and service, the rest is a wash.

    Quote Originally Posted by rzozaya1969
    I also believe in the lifetime warranty is more because Specialized can offer that because of their size, than of the quality. Do you think that if you kept the bike for 30 years, you could go to Spec and say, hey, this broke, replace it? I think it's more to give you a reason to buy one (hey, it's a valid one), that because they think it will last a lifetime. I think that, no matter how good care you give it, aluminium has a limited lifespan.

    And yes, both of the Titus and Spec frames I had looks pretty well made
    not really sure what your point is about the 30 years, of course after that much time you probably would have a newer bike anyway. the point is that you won't have to worry about discovering a crack or something else the week after your 2 year warranty expires. it relieves the customer of having to ever worry about it, they will always be taken care of regardless of when the problem occurs. not everyone buys a new bike every 2 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by salimoneus
    i guess im not seeing it then. so you are saying the spesh has a lot of ML stuff on it? no don't think so, it still doesn't translate. we're talking about two frames from different companies, that both use someone else's components. so it's really just frames and service, the rest is a wash.
    My point is, that when built, the diferences, as you said, is in the frame. And in the Spec side, the Brain Shock. While I think it's a nice idea, and it's getting better for an all around shock every year, I'm not sure it's a deal braker, unless you want to race.

    Anyway, the funny thing here, is that I think that we both think similar, and are just posting back and forth on trivia stuff.....

    How was your weekend?

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    Quote Originally Posted by salimoneus
    not really sure what your point is about the 30 years, of course after that much time you probably would have a newer bike anyway. the point is that you won't have to worry about discovering a crack or something else the week after your 2 year warranty expires. it relieves the customer of having to ever worry about it, they will always be taken care of regardless of when the problem occurs. not everyone buys a new bike every 2 years.
    So, by your logic, Toyota's best sportcar is better than Ferrari's low-ender?

    See, Toyota offers a 5yr powertrain warranty for your peace of mind, while Ferrari is only 3yr and the darn expensive Ferrari is only 1 sec (or less maybe?) faster than the Toyota in the 0-60.

    This whole argument is dumb from both sides. Ours and yours. Simply becuase you care more about other things an average Titus buyer would.

    It's fine, there's no better or worst, simply different. You prefer Spesh. Cool, props to you. We prefer Titus...

    But seriously, you may have to wonder how much a Spesh frame costs alone would they sell it. The Spesh FSR S-Works is 2 grands... give some change and you get a Titanium Motolite... with a lifetime warranty. and custom geometry. Some food for thought.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    So, by your logic, Toyota's best sportcar is better than Ferrari's low-ender?

    See, Toyota offers a 5yr powertrain warranty for your peace of mind, while Ferrari is only 3yr and the darn expensive Ferrari is only 1 sec (or less maybe?) faster than the Toyota in the 0-60.
    ...
    You might have more luck over at www.cartalk.com or something , because we're talking about bikes and I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

    The warranty issue is just one thing of many to compare between the two. One offers a much longer warranty, period. I guess that bothers you, but I'm just making a comparison.
    Last edited by salimoneus; 08-21-2006 at 04:14 PM.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by salimoneus
    Sorry this is discussion is about bikes, not cars. You might have more luck over at www.cartalk.com or something
    Sorry for not mentioning bikes at all in my previous post...
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by salimoneus
    You might have more luck over at www.cartalk.com or something , because we're talking about bikes and I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

    The warranty issue is just one thing of many to compare between the two. One offers a much longer warranty, period. I guess that bothers you, but I'm just making a comparison.
    err... sorry, I was going to make an analogy to computers... btw, Dell is pretty similar to, say, HP... j/k

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by salimoneus
    You might have more luck over at www.cartalk.com or something , because we're talking about bikes and I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

    The warranty issue is just one thing of many to compare between the two. One offers a much longer warranty, period. I guess that bothers you, but I'm just making a comparison.


    Titus takes care of it's people. Spec may or may not warrenty your bike, but when/ if they do, get ready to be off your bike for a while, from what I've seen and heard.

    Like I've said, I notice a big diffrence, between ride/build qulity, betwen the Stump and ML. You don't! You love your warrenty! Stick with them and get a new Spec or keep the one you have!!! Ok! None of us know what we'r talking about according to you, so go...

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by salimoneus
    just curious if any of you ML riders came from or currently also ride a Stumpy FSR, and what your thoughts are on both bikes. these two are at the top of my list for a new aggro XC bike, and i really like both, just trying to get some more insight from people with considerably more saddle time. thanks

    Good day salimoneus, I do not ride an FSR, but have ridden an ML for 5 months already... ML climbs very well and i feel additional forward motion while doing steep climbs on it. Further, I feel no waste of energy and movements when I stand on climbs. I am more faster in technical single tracks as compared to my former bikes ( xlt Jamis and cannondale). In descends, ML feels plush. A good overall bike for xc/all mountain choice for me. It also gives you a choice to ride it with either 4" or 5" of travel.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    ...
    None of us know what we'r talking about according to you, so go...
    no i just get lost as soon as we start comparing bikes to cars. im sure it's me tho, i must be too dumb to follow

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by barelylegal
    Good day salimoneus, I do not ride an FSR, but have ridden an ML for 5 months already... ML climbs very well and i feel additional forward motion while doing steep climbs on it. Further, I feel no waste of energy and movements when I stand on climbs. I am more faster in technical single tracks as compared to my former bikes ( xlt Jamis and cannondale). In descends, ML feels plush. A good overall bike for xc/all mountain choice for me. It also gives you a choice to ride it with either 4" or 5" of travel.
    thanks for the feedback. i have the same feeling about both bikes after riding them, stiff enough and very little bob even while standing on tech uphill stuff, but still with an active suspension. both are basically FSR so i guess it makes sense they would feel similar.

    do many people really see the 4" option as being very useful? it's neat but i just don't see that i would use it much if ever. if the options were say 5" and 5.5" or something, now that would be sweet...

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by salimoneus
    no i just get lost as soon as we start comparing bikes to cars. im sure it's me tho, i must be too dumb to follow


    I know the feeling...

    It's just you seem to be very disagreable, with people who are just trying to help you out.

    Or mabye I'm just dumb.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by salimoneus
    thanks for the feedback. i have the same feeling about both bikes after riding them, stiff enough and very little bob even while standing on tech uphill stuff, but still with an active suspension. both are basically FSR so i guess it makes sense they would feel similar.

    do many people really see the 4" option as being very useful? it's neat but i just don't see that i would use it much if ever. if the options were say 5" and 5.5" or something, now that would be sweet...
    to be honest, I have not tried setting my ML on 4" mode, and so far, I have no intention since the 5" travel is serving me on the trails that I am riding which I believe can be considered an AM trail. Unless I will be using my bike for more XC riding ( I assume more smoother than what I am riding now), then it will become an option for me to try the 4" mode.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by salimoneus
    thanks for the feedback. i have the same feeling about both bikes after riding them, stiff enough and very little bob even while standing on tech uphill stuff, but still with an active suspension. both are basically FSR so i guess it makes sense they would feel similar.

    do many people really see the 4" option as being very useful? it's neat but i just don't see that i would use it much if ever. if the options were say 5" and 5.5" or something, now that would be sweet...

    Personelly I would prefer 5"-5.5". But haveing said that, then I would just have a 5" travel trail bike, that I could convert to a 5.5" travel trail bike.

    I've raced my ML in 4" mode. I couldn't imagen doing that in 5". So no I think haveing "almost" two bikes in one, to be a little more useful.

    One AM/trail bike, and one XC race-able trail bike...

  44. #44
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    Yeah, I haven't used the 4" mode either. I think the features on the RP23 make it unnecessary. For fast, less technical XC rides I just end up riding with the ProPedal on, at whatever setting is appropriate for the terrain. Makes for a very racey feel.

  45. #45
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    more of the same

    I looked at both. Did not demo on the trail but in the parking lot. The S is spec'd great and they appeared to have a similar ride. Hard to say without a true demo. The two concerns I had were the interrupted seat post and the wheel path being able to continuously lube the shock with mud and small rocks. I guess if you you ride in dry conditions this is not an issue. A ride buddy with the womans model uses a small shock fender pull tied on( looks kinda cool) and I guess you can get a shock cover to alleviate that. I also was a little worried about the bearing wear more in the S. The pricing compared well, the setback seatpost would have to be replaced, and the Moto is good for a 145mm fork. Easy choice for me. Besides who needs a Brain, I already have half a one.

  46. #46
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    if only i wasn't in that "dead zone" at 5' 11" with 32" inseam, i really like the bike but the size i need is in between the M and the L. unfortunately i think that might be the deciding factor for me, otherwise i would probably jump on a closeout which are making them even more tempting

    and even though several people my size are riding either M and L, i have a hard time forcing myself to fit on a frame that doesn't really fit me as well as it could. to me, going with big setback posts or long stem seem like a bandaid to a bigger issue, which is lack of proper sizing.

    isn't the average American male between 5'10" and 5'11" too? talk about choosing the absolute worst sizing gap to screw up!

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by salimoneus

    and even though several people my size are riding either M and L, i have a hard time forcing myself to fit on a frame that doesn't really fit me as well as it could. to me, going with big setback posts or long stem seem like a bandaid to a bigger issue, which is lack of proper sizing.

    isn't the average American male between 5'10" and 5'11" too? talk about choosing the absolute worst sizing gap to screw up!

    True, but I have yet "if memory serves" to see a 5'11" rider complaine, over either size.

    But it would cocern me as well, had I not known for sure, which actually I diden't "being 5'11" myself" on a medium. I guess I just trusted the guy that suggested a medium.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by salimoneus
    if only i wasn't in that "dead zone" at 5' 11" with 32" inseam, i really like the bike but the size i need is in between the M and the L. unfortunately i think that might be the deciding factor for me, otherwise i would probably jump on a closeout which are making them even more tempting
    You're the same size as I am. I think that you're best because you could choose a M if you like singletracks and twisty roads, or go for a large if you like more fireroads and fast sections. I have a Med. ML with a Thomson 4X 100mm 100degree stem and a 27" easton monkeyligth riser bar and the bike fits like a glove. I guess I could have gone to a 75mm stem and a Large frame for a more stable frame, if I wanted more speed.

    Those closeouts sound tempting

  49. #49
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    ML Sizing...

    I'm somewhere between 5-9 1/2 and 5-10, with a 32" inseam. I just demo'd a large Motolite and it seemed to fit perfectly well. Afterward, I went into a shop that is known for its fit expertise and he definitely agreed that the large was teh way to go. He also said that a stem of 90mm, 100mm or 110mm would be fine, depending on how upright or stretched out I wanted to be.

    I ended up buying the large frame in gray, with the RP3 for under $1000. Can't wait to get it!

  50. #50
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    ML Sizing...

    I'm somewhere between 5-9 1/2 and 5-10, with a 32" inseam. I just demo'd a large Motolite and it seemed to fit perfectly well. Afterward, I went into a shop that is known for its fit expertise and he definitely agreed that the large was teh way to go. He also said that a stem of 90mm, 100mm or 110mm would be fine, depending on how upright or stretched out I wanted to be.

    I ended up buying the large frame in gray, with the RP3 for under $1000. Can't wait to get it!

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