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  1. #1
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    Late Christmas arrival..Exogrid content

    UPS(anta) just dropped off a couple of the new Fireline Steel Exo hardtail frames. Titus abbreviates it to SEFL.on the package label

    This small 29er weighed in at just 4.0 lb. The large frame was 4.30 lb.


    Although it says Exogrid 3 times and Bi/FUSION once on the frame, nowhere does it mention that it's True Temper OX Platinum steel tubing. I imagine many people will assume it is titanium without a closer look at the finish.

    Not sure exactly how I will build it, but either singlespeed or 1X9 with front shock. Depends on what's on the shelf here.


    How would you outfit one?
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  2. #2
    Dude!
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    I personally would like to put my butt on it when you do get it built! I wouldn't fit on it so I will have to just dream. That is a sweeeet frame though. A SS would be mean looking...

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mo-Tay
    A SS would be mean looking...
    agreed.

  4. #4
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    That is nice! What's retail going to be?

  5. #5
    Ti is addictive
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    Very Nice.......good weight to. Go 1X9........with a rigid carbon fork.
    "Can I put a Totem on a FTM?".....Originally Posted by All Mountain

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swami Scott
    What's retail going to be?
    Frame only, $1995.

    Mine should be here in a few days. Figures Bob got his first.....

    That will cause quite a stir here on the shop floor I'm thinkin'
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  7. #7
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    That's because

    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    Frame only, $1995.

    Mine should be here in a few days. Figures Bob got his first.....

    :
    ...you probably didn't buy the Titus crew a round at the Vegas Hooters.
    Chris and Jeff are men of simple pleasures.
    Or else they are punishing you for putting all those Lefty's on Titus frames.

    In reality, I bribed them with a few of my FTM jerseys.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikerbob.com
    ...you probably didn't buy the Titus crew a round at the Vegas Hooters.
    Chris and Jeff are men of simple pleasures.
    Or else they are punishing you for putting all those Lefty's on Titus frames.

    In reality, I bribed them with a few of my FTM jerseys.

    Wow is that shirt for real? Me likes!

  9. #9
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    Way sweet,

    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    Frame only, $1995.

    Mine should be here in a few days. Figures Bob got his first.....

    That will cause quite a stir here on the shop floor I'm thinkin'
    But $1995 OUCH!!!! You did say it was steel right? Look forward to seeing that puppie built up..CF.

  10. #10
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    How would I outfit?

    I'd probably send it back. The dropout welds are not saying 2K to me.

  11. #11
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAHTNOJ
    The dropout welds are not saying 2K to me.
    Sadly, I'm inclined to agree. I'm actually surprised they are as gobby as they are, since their ti welds are so nice. As a welder, who's welded both materials, it's very similar, so I'm a bit perplexed. Nothing against them, but yeah, where's the butter we've come to expect?
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  12. #12
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikerbob.com
    ...you probably didn't buy the Titus crew a round at the Vegas Hooters.
    Nope, nor did I buy as many frames. But, mine will be here any day, so I'll blame it on geographic proximity

    Nice shirts BTW. Got one with a Lefty on it? =:P
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  13. #13
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    I completely agree

    Quote Originally Posted by NAHTNOJ
    How would I outfit?

    I'd probably send it back. The dropout welds are not saying 2K to me.
    I have seen better welds on surleys, and they sure as heck don't cost 2 grand.

  14. #14
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    Ok I didn't want to be the first to say it, but yeah, really? Those are probably strong enough welds, but are they really $2000 welds? Cause you aren't just paying for the carbon at that price point. Geez. I know they aren't exactly going to sheer off, but like the last guy said, I've seen better welds on a lot of stuff out of Taiwan.

    No offense cause it is a hot looking frame, I would just expect a little more from Titus.

  15. #15
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    I'm waiting to hear how they ride.
    I got the ti fireline a month before they declared the new model.

    The ti rides like a dream, but...

  16. #16
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    welds

    Glad to see I'm not the only one that was disappointed with those welds

  17. #17
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    Yep, the welds on my '91 S-Works Steel frame look way better than that. I'd be disappointed getting that frame having paid 2k for it. But then again, it's all about the ride, right?

    later,
    scott

  18. #18
    Ti is addictive
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    That's why I think I'll stick to their Ti Frames. When you're talkin about throwin down a couple of K for a frame, it should look like someone gave half a Sh*t layin down the bead.

    Look carefully at the Toptube/Headtube/Downtube welds on the small as well as the dropouts, under all that paint there seems to be some good size puddles of welds. A 850 dollar Gunnar with full True temper (albiet no exogrid treatment) has way better welds then that and you get to pick your colour.

    I still wonder about the ride characterics of an exogrid tubeset on steel. Completely changes it I would think, maybe to the point that steel emphatics will say no as they lose the compliancy sought after with steel.

    Still nice frame because of the exogrid, something unique that's not been done before. Good thought in order to bring the cost of exogrid to a more reasonable level. But I hope Titus hasn't dropped the Q/C of their welders just to make delivery times for this frame. These few close up pics of the welds probably have driven a few potential buyers away. Steel afficianado's are a picky quirky bunch, worse then us Tiaholics
    "Can I put a Totem on a FTM?".....Originally Posted by All Mountain

  19. #19
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    I hate to chime in as well but those welds are simply not reasonable for a Titus. If a Titus rep is here, they should take a look and exchange that frame for one that does not look like someone learned how to weld on it. Aweful.




    PS Did that frame come from a Titus dealer or off ebay or something? I wonder if it is legit?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubedriver
    PS Did that frame come from a Titus dealer or off ebay or something? I wonder if it is legit?


    Bob IS a dealer.....



    sr

  21. #21
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    source

    Found it on Craigslist. Seemed like a good bike until everyone chimed in.
    Where else can someone find steel exo frame?

  22. #22
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    Well that sort of begs the question doesn't it? What does a Titus dealer think of those welds on a what is supposed to be a boutique type bike?

    The welds on my MY2000 HCR are in a different league, who here would throw down $2000 clams for something that looks like that?









    Quote Originally Posted by simplton
    Bob IS a dealer.....



    sr

  23. #23
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    First batch

    I was eager to get a couple of these frames to ride.
    The same welders who do such nice ti work are welding these. I believe welds will be much nicer on future frames.
    I was willing to accept the first run rather than wait for perfection.
    But I probably should have waited before posting photos.
    Stay tuned for the next run.
    .

  24. #24
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    well, it is entirely a different thing if that is a early prototype/pre production type frame. As long as Titus does not expect full retail price paying customers to accept that. Rock on with it, it will probably ride great.



    Quote Originally Posted by Bikerbob.com
    I was eager to get a couple of these frames to ride.
    The same welders who do such nice ti work are welding these. I believe welds will be much nicer on future frames.
    I was willing to accept the first run rather than wait for perfection.
    But I probably should have waited before posting photos.
    Stay tuned for the next run.
    .

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikerbob.com
    I was eager to get a couple of these frames to ride.
    The same welders who do such nice ti work are welding these. I believe welds will be much nicer on future frames.
    I was willing to accept the first run rather than wait for perfection.
    But I probably should have waited before posting photos.
    Stay tuned for the next run.
    .
    Yeah, I may have come off a bit harsh. Just not the quality appearance I'm used to seeing on my own Titus I guess. Sorry to have spun this thing in the wrong direction Bob. I love the idea of the frame. I'm eager to hear your thoughts on how it handles compared to a Ti Exo frame. Please do keep us posted.

    cheers and happy new year!

    Scott

  26. #26
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    I almost started carrying Titus this year, but was not impressed with their current quality. My older FCR is so much nicer than what they are doing now. Good luck with the brand though.

    That was one of the frames that caught my eye, but there will be plenty to buy for a grand at the end of the year. You can order from jenson or backcountry and get better prices than a dealer can for the same frame. I have been a titus rider since '02, but won't be buying anymore.

  27. #27
    Ti is addictive
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplton
    Yeah, I may have come off a bit harsh. Just not the quality appearance I'm used to seeing on my own Titus I guess. Sorry to have spun this thing in the wrong direction Bob. I love the idea of the frame. I'm eager to hear your thoughts on how it handles compared to a Ti Exo frame. Please do keep us posted.

    cheers and happy new year!

    Scott

    I don't think it's harsh us pointing out the weld quality. As Mendon noted, If someone can weld a perfect stack of dimes on a Ti frame, why can't they come out with the same result on a steel frame when steel is the easiest and nicest to weld of the bike materials out there. I've had a number of steel frames in the past and all of those were nicer then what I just saw. In fact, I just looked at my daughters 4130 Norco training wheeled bike and the welds at the dropouts looked better then the 2k bike.

    It was not noted that these were preproduction frames, knowing Bob, 1 if not both of those 2 frames was destined for someone for delivery over the next few weeks. So sorry, I don't buy this 1st run production BS. Too many good/great custom frame makers out there right now doing steel at a much lower cost, so if Titus wants to run with the bulls, they had better get their act together.
    "Can I put a Totem on a FTM?".....Originally Posted by All Mountain

  28. #28
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    Tough crowd

    It's a mountain bike frame. Pretty cool concept, steel exo hardtail. And should be judged on a variety of factors. Ride, fit, weight, feel, and finally little details.


    I liked the concept of this bike when i saw it at the show. I got a couple to ride myself and demo. When I sell them later as demos, it will be reflected in the price.
    I think Titus will make sure further frames will be up to standard after reading this.

    I would call it growing pains with this new steel frame. They'll get them right.

    Here's a recent Fireline Ti. They still do great work.
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  29. #29
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    I would bet anything

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikerbob.com
    It's a mountain bike frame. Pretty cool concept, steel exo hardtail. And should be judged on a variety of factors. Ride, fit, weight, feel, and finally little details.


    I liked the concept of this bike when i saw it at the show. I got a couple to ride myself and demo. When I sell them later as demos, it will be reflected in the price.
    I think Titus will make sure further frames will be up to standard after reading this.

    I would call it growing pains with this new steel frame. They'll get them right.

    Here's a recent Fireline Ti. They still do great work.
    that the guy who did the welding on the steel frame, didn't do that ti frame. I would also bet that the guy who did the steel frame will here about it after this thread gets talked about. I know it's a mountain bike but if I paid 2K for a frame and it showed up with those welds, it would definitely be headed back their way return to sender, just my .02.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiEndo
    steel is the easiest and nicest to weld of the bike materials out there. Too many good/great custom frame makers out there right now doing steel at a much lower cost, so if Titus wants to run with the bulls, they had better get their act together.
    Actually, steel is not quite as "flowy" as stainless or ti, when it comes to the puddle made during welding. So I wouldn't say it's the easiest and nicest, but surely a good welder can can a good weld, regardless of material. That said, many folks have turned up nicer examples of steel welds, from places far less auspicious than Titus. It may be viewed as harsh criticism, but for me, as a dealer? If I have bikes that Jamis got welded in China or Taiwan, costing hundreds if not thousands less, sitting right next to this one on my floor, the whole made in America argument will only carry me so far. Add to that, higher prices for everything this year, making it that much tougher to make a sale, and the comparisons will surely be flying. Any obvious incongruity will just be another hurdle I have to jump over in the process. If they built these as a less expensive alternative to their ti exo, they should have kept an eye on quality, same as ever. If it was to make the bike cheaper at all costs, and they employed a different team to do the construction, or hired a bunch or new guys to keep up with increasing demand, they should say so.

    Don't get me wrong. I do hope these fly out the door. And I wish Titus nothing but the best for this year. But visual weld quality is a strong selling point for many high end frames, (ask anyone with an IF, Seven, Merlin, Ventana etc) and this doesn't stack up as it should. Sorry, hope they can pull a rabbit out of their hat, or get this thing fixed.....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  31. #31
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    Ride on

    Enjoy that bike Bob- I still love it

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    Sadly, I'm inclined to agree. I'm actually surprised they are as gobby as they are, since their ti welds are so nice. As a welder, who's welded both materials, it's very similar, so I'm a bit perplexed. Nothing against them, but yeah, where's the butter we've come to expect?
    I must agree, and would definitely expect more from Titus. Would be interested to see if your frame arrives looking any better...

  33. #33
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    Hey, just got mine, no time to post pics, but I felt based on the amount of flak this one was taking, that I'd chime in with the info.

    This one appears to be better. Not ti-licious, but better than Bob's. I'd say on par with what you'd expect from a high end steel Taiwan frame, (not the high praise they want, but better than continued reaming on 'em!) When I get a chance, I'll post a few pics.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  34. #34
    A Superhero Named Tony
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAHTNOJ
    How would I outfit?

    I'd probably send it back. The dropout welds are not saying 2K to me.
    Agreed...

  35. #35
    the train keeps rollin
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    I'm sorry, but the welds look like crap.
    beaver hunt

  36. #36
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    Pics! Not as bad, but still getting up to speed. Can't wait to give it a spin
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    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  37. #37
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    better but still looks like an amateur welder

    I am not saying that I could do any better but I'm not in the bike business either. $2000 for a bike with even the second bike's welds is ridiculous. Is someone making these for titus in their garage as a hobby or something?

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    Pics! Not as bad, but still getting up to speed. Can't wait to give it a spin
    That honestly looks just like the '93 stumpjumper I bought my wife. All I can say is I hope the ride is out of this world.

  39. #39
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    Agreed on the welds. As a big Tutus fan, I'm a bit disappointed. This was top of my list for a 29 er SS project, but no Ti and poor welds just knocked it way off the top. Plus the derailleur hanger is a no go too...
    Earlie Cuyler: Fights begin, finger prints are took, days is lost, bail is made, court dates are ignored, cycle is repeated.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by medflight429
    no Ti and poor welds just knocked it way off the top.
    This is an odd statement considering we're talking about the steel version of the Exogrid, and not the ti...
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  41. #41
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    Got my thoughts confused... I was thinking the Ti frameset is priced in the same ball park, looks much better and has replaceable dropouts. I realize this is steel. Still no excuse for the the welds, my kids bikes have better...
    Earlie Cuyler: Fights begin, finger prints are took, days is lost, bail is made, court dates are ignored, cycle is repeated.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by medflight429
    Still no excuse for the the welds, my kids bikes have better...
    I spoke with Titus about it actually. While I don't agree with the answer, it makes some sense. The guy(s) who do the ti welding, are doing these too. Just like a chef working with ingredients they aren't familiar with, the welders are "getting up to speed" with steel. I would assume within a season, they will be gorgeous. That said though, seems they shouldn't be taking it out on the public at full pop though, perhaps they should build some decorative gates for the community to cut their teeth
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    I spoke with Titus about it actually. While I don't agree with the answer, it makes some sense. The guy(s) who do the ti welding, are doing these too. Just like a chef working with ingredients they aren't familiar with, the welders are "getting up to speed" with steel. I would assume within a season, they will be gorgeous. That said though, seems they shouldn't be taking it out on the public at full pop though, perhaps they should build some decorative gates for the community to cut their teeth

    Interesting. If it's the same welders that do the Ti stuff then you're right, it will probably be worlds better soon. The Ti welds are top notch. Letting frames out with what are for all intents and purposes are "practice" welds isn't smart IMO, especially on something as supposedly high-zoot as an exogrid frame.

  44. #44
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    I wouldnt think Titus would want put practice frames on the market, but it will probably work its self out as few people will want to drop 2K on said frame. The exogrid and steel looks cool anyway. For now, I will stick with the Ti frames.
    Earlie Cuyler: Fights begin, finger prints are took, days is lost, bail is made, court dates are ignored, cycle is repeated.

  45. #45
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    It's possible that due to our near-depression economic situation they decided to try and not eat the costs of these early production frames simply due to cosmetic reasons, considering how expensive the exo tubes probably are to make. I guess if the people buying them are satisfied enough, and it's only a short term issue with only these frames until they get up to speed, it's really not a huge deal.

    I would have rather seen the frames sent out as marked down unbadged factory seconds or something though, and I also don't really follow as to why they wouldn't get up to speed on some scrap tubes of the same steel, but maybe they couldn't wait any longer who really knows.

    I say lets see some pics of another batch of these frames, which I'm assuming will look as good as all the other frames Titus ships, and we can put this one to bed

  46. #46
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    What welds?

    Pretty hard to unbadge an Exogrid frame, don't you think?

    Don't know about you, but this bike looks pretty damn good, despite a less than perfect brake tab weld. Kinda like kicking Penelope Cruz out of bed for eating tortilla chips.

    My question-do I see what I can get for it as scrap steel, donate it to Trips For Kids, or ride the hell out of it?
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  47. #47
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    Sorry, shouldn't be releasing those at full price

    Love Titus, and in fact dating back to 1998 and my first RX I have been a huge Titus fan and pusher...

    For 2k, those welds are unacceptable. Weak excuse also with the Ti welders stuff. get some scrap steel tubes, tack them up and practice.

    Still love my Ti Motolite, love the Steel exo concept. Don't love those welds, and not at that price.
    "The thing is, Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care."

  48. #48
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    There is no denying it...thats a good lookin rig...but I 'm going to still say its a lot o dough for a so so job. The exogrid bling does distract one from looking to close at the welds.

    It doesnt matter for me anyway since I want to SS one and the steel doesnt have the dropout option. I'll keep the Ti Fireline on the top of my list afterall.
    Earlie Cuyler: Fights begin, finger prints are took, days is lost, bail is made, court dates are ignored, cycle is repeated.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikerbob.com
    Pretty hard to unbadge an Exogrid frame, don't you think?

    Don't know about you, but this bike looks pretty damn good, despite a less than perfect brake tab weld. Kinda like kicking Penelope Cruz out of bed for eating tortilla chips.

    My question-do I see what I can get for it as scrap steel, donate it to Trips For Kids, or ride the hell out of it?
    I say ride the bajeezus out of it. Have you? If so, what's the story?


    sr

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikerbob.com
    Pretty hard to unbadge an Exogrid frame, don't you think?
    Pretty easy really, just don't put model stickers on it so the graphics look the same as a production model.

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    Sorry I didn't mean to touch off a big controversy here. I used to have a HCR and then an RX100. Both were beautifully made and among the best riding and handling bikes I've ever ridden. This frame just didn't look like the Titus I used to know.

    Now that it is built how does it ride? What is the advantage/difference of steel/carbon vs. ti/carbon?

  52. #52
    Hueston Woods Trail Crew
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    Statute of limitations

    Jonathan,

    Don't you think it's time for a new thread on the bike. Two weeks of comments on the disc tab welds is more than enough.

    I rode the steelexo briefly for the first time today. Feels good from a fit point of view. It's not set up quite the way I want it yet, but I am going to unload my ti Fireline and make this my main ride.

    Probably too soon for anyone else's ride reports, and the weather conditions here don't lend to a good workout. Someone in a warmer, drier climate needs to hop on one.

    It sure is beautiful in person. Keep in mind that I don't wear reading glasses to inspect for flaws in paint or welds when I'm riding.
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  53. #53
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    I am sure TItus will get those welds in order. If they don't, I'll just get my CF infused Steel hard-tail from...ummm...

    That's right, silly me, I really wanted that Ti six inch bike. There's TItus and, ummm...

    I could go on.

    Titus is a small US company pushing the materials envelope and cranking out great bikes in a tough economy. Steel <EXO> is a new offering and I'm happy to see it. Thanks Titus.

  54. #54
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
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    2nd on the weather here. Too much snow, coming too fast to allow conditions to firm up. Put it to you this way, I'm building fatter rimmed wheels for my Pugsley, just so I can run the dogs in the AM

    It'll get some proper trail time in a few months......
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  55. #55
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    Hey Bob, any issues with the chain coming off the front ring on the 1x9?

    Thanks,
    Scott

  56. #56
    SS Madness
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    Just gotta post the Blingle!

    Porn.
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    You can sleep when you are dead!

  57. #57
    bap
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    niiiiice

    looking great !!! got any close-up pics?

    the frame looks alot better with all the stickers cleaned up. what's up with the rear brake line along the top tube though? just missing a hose guide?

  58. #58
    SS Madness
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    Close ups here....

    http://gallery.mtbr.com/showgallery..../ppuser/240095

    The hose guide was missing. All fixed now. Those aren't stickers...that is carbon fiber in the titanium!
    You can sleep when you are dead!

  59. #59
    bap
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    wow thanks! looks amazing.

    yup i know the exogrid, i meant the bigger titus sticker on the seatube and chainstays and huge fireline logo on the top tube.

    but i think that's on the steel exo and not the Ti models

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