Have you seen the new Chumba bike? It's like the front triangle of an RX with the rear suspension of an ML.
mmmmmhhhhh... it could well work very differently. There are subtle nuances.
The HL pivot seems to be further down as compared to a Titus. More "NRS" like, but not that exaggerated. This affects how the suspension reacts (don't ask me how, though).
Also, you can not run the seatpost all the way in... if you happen to need it, anyway.
I like where the gussets are welded to... the neutral axis of the tubing, less stress for the tubing and arguably, less chances for craks.
What's the intended use? I figure XC-Race, 'cos for bigger stuff, CHumba has the EVO's.
I took a look at it... 4.5" travel, around 7 pounds for a M, 1700 bucks... nice indeed. It already beated the Epiphany in a review... so it could be a rival to the ML.
However, there's two tiny details that I think (and it's just a personal opinion based on pure observation and nothing solid) that could be better on the Chumba.
Main Pivot...
And HL pivots...
Looks like the ML is more solid at those areas, accounting for a stiffer frame. But it'd be nice to make a ride shootout to settle the dust down.
Am sitting here at home typing and steering at my ML, the beefy rare stays are amazing on the ML really, for a 5 inche frame, they are sturdy tough and way rugged..... So many new frames coming onto the scene. Surely all these manufacturers cannot survive, there is so so many...........................
The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"
I took a look at it... 4.5" travel, around 7 pounds for a M, 1700 bucks... nice indeed. It already beated the Epiphany in a review... so it could be a rival to the ML.
However, there's two tiny details that I think (and it's just a personal opinion based on pure observation and nothing solid) that could be better on the Chumba.
Looks like the ML is more solid at those areas, accounting for a stiffer frame. But it'd be nice to make a ride shootout to settle the dust down.
Actually, the review is weird as it says that the bike geometry does not descend very well. This is odd with a 69 HA compared to the Epi 70. Their 6" travel bike looks more interesting though.
Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun
Am sitting here at home typing and steering at my ML, the beefy rare stays are amazing on the ML really, for a 5 inche frame, they are sturdy tough and way rugged..... So many new frames coming onto the scene. Surely all these manufacturers cannot survive, there is so so many...........................
These stays were never designed for the ML. When the bike came out last year with the narrow stays, a few of us complained, and after inquiry Titus realized the Supermoto stays would also fit on the ML. The rest is history. And yes, the FR stays are awesome!
Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun
These stays were never designed for the ML. When the bike came out last year with the narrow stays, a few of us complained, and after inquiry Titus realized the Supermoto stays would also fit on the ML. The rest is history. And yes, the FR stays are awesome!
aha, that explains it, Inow know what everyone is chatting about when the talk about the FR lowers... All good, thanks for that sorg, you rock......................... I didnt really rate the Ellsworth Epi when I rode it briefly.....................Nice but, but it didnt agree with me... Liked the Id way more...
The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"
Actually, the review is weird as it says that the bike geometry does not descend very well. This is odd with a 69 HA compared to the Epi 70. Their 6" travel bike looks more interesting though.
aha, that explains it, Inow know what everyone is chatting about when the talk about the FR lowers... All good, thanks for that sorg, you rock......................... I didnt really rate the Ellsworth Epi when I rode it briefly.....................Nice but, but it didnt agree with me... Liked the Id way more...
A riding buddy has an Id that he loves. I tried it, but it just felt weird to me. The cockpit was perfect and the pedaling was awesome, but the feeling of sitting so high up was a bit unnerving. Well, that and the fact that I had approx 0" clearance between the top tube and my privates...
Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun
Have you seen the new Chumba bike? It's like the front triangle of an RX with the rear suspension of an ML.
actually, Ted (Chumba's founder) was doing Mac Strut designs -- some in conjunction with Salsa -- several years before Titus, but only as custom order frames, hence, you never saw them or heard about them. but some of us so. cal. locals have seen them.
Look, I am not trying to start a flame war. I think the Motolite is a great bike, and I am not going to take sides one way or another. I was merely making an observation from my experiences. If you disagree with me, then fine, but seriously, I'm not going to get dragged into some big debate over this. Hell, I don't even own either bike. I mean, if you guys are really so passionate about this, you should just get a Chumba XCL and a Titus Motolite, and do a side-by-side comparison and decide for yourself.
Look, I am not trying to start a flame war. I think the Motolite is a great bike, and I am not going to take sides one way or another. I was merely making an observation from my experiences. If you disagree with me, then fine, but seriously, I'm not going to get dragged into some big debate over this. Hell, I don't even own either bike. I mean, if you guys are really so passionate about this, you should just get a Chumba XCL and a Titus Motolite, and do a side-by-side comparison and decide for yourself.
I think that the Chumba looks like a great bike, and the EVO looks pretty cool. I wish them success. As for the comment on rigidity, while it might be true, I have a hard time beleiving it. The ML is a really rigid frame to begin with, and I'm not sure that I'd be able to tell whether frame X or Y was more rigid just by riding it. But bear in mind that 1) I'm just 160#, 2) a crappy rider and 3) I don't jump anything meaningful. My uneducated take is that the wheels would flex long before I could detect any flex in the frame.
Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun
Have you seen the new Chumba bike? It's like the front triangle of an RX with the rear suspension of an ML.
Well if using swing link is imitation then all of the bikes mentioned here are...well imitations. Swing link is a good design that dates back to beginning of FS MTB. Chumba put swing link together with a horst link and it rides nice. Super beefy chain stay and seat stays. ML looks like it only has beefy chain stays with little tube seat stays and no hostlink. The swing link rockers on the chumba are BEEFY, nice large of CNCed piece of art. Another thing I like about the XCL is the lower BB and center of gravity, 13.5 BB height.
I can only say this because I rode it before they came up with the new production model, my buddies have couple of the XCLs back when they were custom. It rode NICE, plush and feels like it has more travel than 4.25. Very stiff and climbs really well but unlike other XC bikes it decends really nice also. Great XCish AM bike.....and loves technical stuff, not your average fire road loving XC rig.
Almost bought one......then the EVO came.......
"Didn't your doctor tell you to stop smoking and drinking?" George Burns "Yes but they all died"
Look, I am not trying to start a flame war. I think the Motolite is a great bike, and I am not going to take sides one way or another. I was merely making an observation from my experiences. If you disagree with me, then fine, but seriously, I'm not going to get dragged into some big debate over this. Hell, I don't even own either bike. I mean, if you guys are really so passionate about this, you should just get a Chumba XCL and a Titus Motolite, and do a side-by-side comparison and decide for yourself.
For someone who dosn't own either bike, and doesn't even want to discuss the matter, that sure is a pretty defenit statment. But whatever, if you say that's just your opinion I'll respect that.
But I can hardly imagen another bike "in it's class" to even be possible , that it could be stiffer in any "persevable" way, than the ML. Yet I've never been on one, but if it is, I'd sure like to give her a run. Which I suppose is entirly possible if that's an "honest" conclusion that at least one person could come to.
This was a very good thread, I folllowed it when it started, then didnt go back. Have elso been watching that Chumba frame and bike etc. Very interesting. Ever since I saw it way back, I have not liked it asthetically. I know, that shouldnt be the reason to purchase a bike, but never the less, it is still an important component... The look has not grown on me.....
Reading about the frame etc, I dont think it is comparing apples with apples the ML and the Chuma XCL. I think the Chumba is a burly 6 inch strong AM frame, could be wrong, but seems that way to me.....
I guess we watch this space....
The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"
What I will say with re: the XCL is that I took it up to the San Gabriels and rode some gnarly trails on it and never felt sketchy once. It is suprisingly strong and stiff, and the geometry appears to be really dialed in. Like Duke777, I was very close to pulling the trigger, but then the EVO came out and as they say, the rest is history. I don't think any XCLs have made their way outside of California, or very few, why not call Chumba and see if you can get a demo at a shop going - and settle the speculation with personal experience? They are a really personable company, I've called them and bugged them many a times. : P
Well if using swing link is imitation then all of the bikes mentioned here are...well imitations. Swing link is a good design that dates back to beginning of FS MTB. Chumba put swing link together with a horst link and it rides nice. Super beefy chain stay and seat stays. ML looks like it only has beefy chain stays with little tube seat stays and no hostlink. The swing link rockers on the chumba are BEEFY, nice large of CNCed piece of art. Another thing I like about the XCL is the lower BB and center of gravity, 13.5 BB height.
I can only say this because I rode it before they came up with the new production model, my buddies have couple of the XCLs back when they were custom. It rode NICE, plush and feels like it has more travel than 4.25. Very stiff and climbs really well but unlike other XC bikes it decends really nice also. Great XCish AM bike.....and loves technical stuff, not your average fire road loving XC rig.
Almost bought one......then the EVO came.......
Yeah the ML chainstay's are alot beefier than the seatstay's, but it does also have a Horst link...
What I will say with re: the XCL is that I took it up to the San Gabriels and rode some gnarly trails on it and never felt sketchy once. It is suprisingly strong and stiff, and the geometry appears to be really dialed in. Like Duke777, I was very close to pulling the trigger, but then the EVO came out and as they say, the rest is history. I don't think any XCLs have made their way outside of California, or very few, why not call Chumba and see if you can get a demo at a shop going - and settle the speculation with personal experience? They are a really personable company, I've called them and bugged them many a times. : P
If one comes along I'll giver a go. I would' be interested to know how stiff I'd find her to be. I'd bet based on your post, it's up there...
It does? My bad, I didn't see it. I even saw a few in person and checked it out. I guess it's not as pronounced as the HL on the XCL.
Well... the HL (though rather obvious, not flaming you, bro!) on Titus bikes is not as pronouced as on the Chumba's. The Chumba's go lower relative to wheel axle, as compared with a Titus.
If exaggerated as in NRS's, the chain tension may interact with suspension... but I don't see it happening much on the Chumba.
It will certainly have a different feel and ride to a ML. While the basic suspension scheme may be the old known Mac Strut, they may ride very differently.
I also have a hard time imaginating the XCL stiffer than the ML at the rear (see my post below stating build differences)... but if Spicymag has ridden both, I have to give him some credit until someone comes with a more thorough test.
More credit giving.... Carnetorta is right... I couldn't get concrete dates, but I saw a Salsa bike from back '95 / '96, that the rear is basically identical to the XCL and supposedly was made by Chumba's Ted Tanouye. I'm not sure if Chris was making a full Susser by then or how it was.
However... neither Ted nor Chris were the first to use the Mac Strut design... but hey, they just made it better!!!
It will certainly have a different feel and ride to a ML. While the basic suspension scheme may be the old known Mac Strut, they may ride very differently.
I also have a hard time imaginating the XCL stiffer than the ML at the rear (see my post below stating build differences)... but if Spicymag has ridden both, I have to give him some credit until someone comes with a more thorough test.
:
I would say the Chumba looks stiffer, if it really is or not I can't say since I haven't tried the Motolite.
The XCL has beefier looking seat stay, rockers, tubeset and bearings. BUT I can also bet you that the Chumba weights more too, my guess is almost 1lb heavier. Someone told me the aluminum ML is about 6.3-4???? I'm pretty sure the XCL is around 7lbs.
Super rigid or light weight, it's a trade off and choice to make when considering one of these beauties to fit your riding style. As for me I'll pick beef over weight since I ate too much beef
"Didn't your doctor tell you to stop smoking and drinking?" George Burns "Yes but they all died"
I would say the Chumba looks stiffer, if it really is or not I can't say since I haven't tried the Motolite.
The XCL has beefier looking seat stay, rockers, tubeset and bearings. BUT I can also bet you that the Chumba weights more too, my guess is almost 1lb heavier. Someone told me the aluminum ML is about 6.3-4???? I'm pretty sure the XCL is around 7lbs.
Super rigid or light weight, it's a trade off and choice to make when considering one of these beauties to fit your riding style. As for me I'll pick beef over weight since I ate too much beef
Myself, I wouldnt like to speculate on stiffness in relation to frame weight, for me it has nto real re;ationship, sure to a certain level, but it the weights are correct that the XCL is indeed 500 grams heavier, for me does not translate to frame stiffness.
We will see a side by side shoot out at some stage in the near future for sure.
Have said it before, will say it again, there is a miriad of AM bikes lets call them coming on stream. For the life of me cannot see how they will all survive, surely there will be some rationalisation.......................Am thinking that Turner will merge with Ellsworth, that will be the first merger for sure! Then Spec will merge with Giant...... LOL LOL LMFAO..............
The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"
actually, Ted (Chumba's founder) was doing Mac Strut designs -- some in conjunction with Salsa -- several years before Titus, but only as custom order frames, hence, you never saw them or heard about them. but some of us so. cal. locals have seen them.
Wow, must have been very early adopter, check this picture of 1994 Titus:
And it's pretty long stretch to call Nicolai frames as imitation as K Nicolai worked at AMP when they developed original linkages at 1991.
I should get at scanning my collection of old magazines (early 90's), lot's of funny pics there.
I would say the Chumba looks stiffer, if it really is or not I can't say since I haven't tried the Motolite.
The XCL has beefier looking seat stay, rockers, tubeset and bearings. BUT I can also bet you that the Chumba weights more too, my guess is almost 1lb heavier. Someone told me the aluminum ML is about 6.3-4???? I'm pretty sure the XCL is around 7lbs.
Super rigid or light weight, it's a trade off and choice to make when considering one of these beauties to fit your riding style. As for me I'll pick beef over weight since I ate too much beef
I won't argue on the tubeset, as we don't really know what's "inside" and we really ignore the butting used in them, thickness, etc. Not necesarily, a lighter frame is weaker... chances are, but it's not black or white.
But I may put you these pics for you to compare, and were the points I brought up before:
1.- BB-Pivot... All Titus except Ti ones, have 4 bearings here (Ti ones use "only" three). The pic I'm showing shows the old desing, which BTW, is actually weaker than the used on '06 ML's which have a chainstay derivated from that one used on the Supermoto. Some say it's overkill.
2.- HL... All Titus use a bushing here. The union is actually a yoke which holds the seatstay by both sides. I really can't see why the bolt used on the Chumba would stand more abuse than this HL pivot on any Titus.
As I mentioned earlier... If someone (Spicymaguros) who rode both say the Chumba is stiffer, I give him the credit, until someone else ride them more extensively and says otherwise or samewise.
But just from looking at the pics, it's hard to believe.
I handle most of the sales/marketing at CHUMBA. I was browsing the forums and stumbled on this thread. It is a very interesting discussion.
I would be more than happy to arrange some type of head-to-head shootout with the Titus Motolite - so long as it was fair and unbiased. In my experience, every bike builder has certain distinguishing characteristics, and it would be great to make this information available to the public. We recently did a shootout with the Ellsworth Epiphany with Velo Vert (Its on our website), and the review provided riders with good info. on how the two bikes differ. I would welcome such a test with the TItus Motolite as well.
Anyone have suggestions? You can post, and I'll check back regularly or you can e-mail me at alan@chumbaracing.com.
I handle most of the sales/marketing at CHUMBA. I was browsing the forums and stumbled on this thread. It is a very interesting discussion.
I would be more than happy to arrange some type of head-to-head shootout with the Titus Motolite - so long as it was fair and unbiased. In my experience, every bike builder has certain distinguishing characteristics, and it would be great to make this information available to the public. We recently did a shootout with the Ellsworth Epiphany with Velo Vert (Its on our website), and the review provided riders with good info. on how the two bikes differ. I would welcome such a test with the TItus Motolite as well.
Anyone have suggestions? You can post, and I'll check back regularly or you can e-mail me at alan@chumbaracing.com.
I won't argue on the tubeset, as we don't really know what's "inside" and we really ignore the butting used in them, thickness, etc. Not necesarily, a lighter frame is weaker... chances are, but it's not black or white.
But I may put you these pics for you to compare, and were the points I brought up before:
1.- BB-Pivot... All Titus except Ti ones, have 4 bearings here (Ti ones use "only" three). The pic I'm showing shows the old desing, which BTW, is actually weaker than the used on '06 ML's which have a chainstay derivated from that one used on the Supermoto. Some say it's overkill.
2.- HL... All Titus use a bushing here. The union is actually a yoke which holds the seatstay by both sides. I really can't see why the bolt used on the Chumba would stand more abuse than this HL pivot on any Titus.
As I mentioned earlier... If someone (Spicymaguros) who rode both say the Chumba is stiffer, I give him the credit, until someone else ride them more extensively and says otherwise or samewise.
But just from looking at the pics, it's hard to believe.
Well I guess it's the difference in opinions, I still think Chumba's CNCed drop out with beefy bearings looks stronger. Not sure if ML's drop out is CNCed from the pictures. BTW I'm not a big fan of bushing, they are light but they still are...well bushings. Don't take me wrong I think the ML is a great bike and has it's unique riding charactor. The chumba and ML do look alike but I think they are build a little different with different riding style in mind. So is the Nicholai which is WAY stiffer even compare to the XCL. But that's a FR bike.
"Didn't your doctor tell you to stop smoking and drinking?" George Burns "Yes but they all died"
I would really like to see a shootout - of course, in a friendly, good-spirited sort of way! Sounds like two boutique bikes from two U.S. made small companies. Would be nice to see what the differences are though, although I'm sure both would perform well. Maybe the bikes can be sent to someone at MTBR, who can do the review.
Last edited by carnetorta; 08-08-2006 at 12:23 AM.
Well I guess it's the difference in opinions, I still think Chumba's CNCed drop out with beefy bearings looks stronger. Not sure if ML's drop out is CNCed from the pictures. BTW I'm not a big fan of bushing, they are light but they still are...well bushings. Don't take me wrong I think the ML is a great bike and has it's unique riding charactor. The chumba and ML do look alike but I think they are build a little different with different riding style in mind. So is the Nicholai which is WAY stiffer even compare to the XCL. But that's a FR bike.
forged and CNC. just the way it should be..... not just machined from plate.
that horst drop out is a cleavis, the bolt thru the bushing is in double shear. just the way it should be done.
and in regards to other posts.
this stiffness comparison is dumb. there is no way anyone could get on a ML ride it and think, wow thats got more flex then my XLC. more like you are feeling the tires flex or the wheels. it is just dumb, I call BS.... and thats not a knock on chumba, the bikes look good to me.
flex is a big deal and its #1 on my list when I'm looking at a bike. some bikes realy suck and flex. ML is not one of them.
forged and CNC. just the way it should be..... not just machined from plate.
that horst drop out is a cleavis, the bolt thru the bushing is in double shear. just the way it should be done.
and in regards to other posts.
this stiffness comparison is dumb. there is no way anyone could get on a ML ride it and think, wow thats got more flex then my XLC. more like you are feeling the tires flex or the wheels. it is just dumb, I call BS.... and thats not a knock on chumba, the bikes look good to me.
flex is a big deal and its #1 on my list when I'm looking at a bike. some bikes realy suck and flex. ML is not one of them.
The MotoLite is STIFFER than a honeymooner's chopper.
The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"
I would really like to see a shootout - of course, in a friendly, good-spirited sort of way! Sounds like two boutique bikes from two U.S. made small companies. Would be nice to see what the differences are though, although I'm sure both would perform well. Maybe the bikes can be sent to someone at MTBR, who can do the review.
Yup... someone like Francois who makes the top-dog reviews and he's unbiased.
There's only one way to settle it - a shootout! I see CHUMBA has already accepted, which doesn't suprise me given their racing heritage. Titus?? C,mon we need the excitement.
<!-- begin wn --><!-- google_ad_region_start=def -->svelte
adj 1: showing a high degree of refinement and the assurance that comes from wide social experience; "his polished manner"; "maintained an urbane tone in his letters" [syn: polished, refined, urbane] 2: gracefully slender; moving and bending with ease [syn: lissome, lissom, lithe, lithesome, slender, supple, sylphlike]
Go ahead and send me Chumba. Would love to try one out!
Francis, godfather of MTBR, has agreed to do the bike comparison. I have a XCL ready to go to him next week. I called Titus and left a message with their marketing manager. I'm pretty sure they will agree to send a bike to Francis as well, I just need to get confirmation on that.
Francis, godfather of MTBR, has agreed to do the bike comparison. I have a XCL ready to go to him next week. I called Titus and left a message with their marketing manager. I'm pretty sure they will agree to send a bike to Francis as well, I just need to get confirmation on that.
Once Titus confirms, we can let the games begin!
Sounds like fun to me! When do you guys bring your bikes up to Norcal for a demo day like some of the other brands?
Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun
Our next demo will be at Interbike. But if there's enough interest, we could try and haul some bikes up there.
Interbike... Hmm, I am thinking about going there just for the Monday demo, but then again, it's quarter end, so not the best of timing for my job.
As for coming up to Norcal, there's a bunch of shops. I know of at least three who have organized demo days before: Trailhead cyclery in the south bay (Yeti, Specialized), Passion Trail (Turner, Maverick) on the Peninsula, and Roaringmousecycles in SF (Titus). Contact them.
Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun
Interbike... Hmm, I am thinking about going there just for the Monday demo, but then again, it's quarter end, so not the best of timing for my job.
As for coming up to Norcal, there's a bunch of shops. I know of at least three who have organized demo days before: Trailhead cyclery in the south bay (Yeti, Specialized), Passion Trail (Turner, Maverick) on the Peninsula, and Roaringmousecycles in SF (Titus). Contact them.
yeah the trailhead cyclery demo at demo forest last weekend was great. trailhead is a great shop.
I rode a 575 around the parking lot. I had planned to give one a loop. but then after pedaling around a bit, I was like, why ruin my ride. same experiance with my last 575 Demo. ASR seemed ok.
yeah the trailhead cyclery demo at demo forest last weekend was great. trailhead is a great shop.
I rode a 575 around the parking lot. I had planned to give one a loop. but then after pedaling around a bit, I was like, why ruin my ride. same experiance with my last 575 Demo. ASR seemed ok.
Were they running the abbreviated loop (down Hihn, up Suffer, down Braille)?
Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun
yeah the trailhead cyclery demo at demo forest last weekend was great. trailhead is a great shop.
I rode a 575 around the parking lot. I had planned to give one a loop. but then after pedaling around a bit, I was like, why ruin my ride. same experiance with my last 575 Demo. ASR seemed ok.
WHO WOULD THEY SEND IT TO? "PRO review" does not in my mind = the MTBR staff. this already stinks!
Seriously, it's not going to settle much of anything. No matter what, Chumbonians are still going to think their bike is better, and Titans will still prefer Titus. But, it will provide interesting reading and probably some good bike porn.
But if the rea's stiffer than the Moto, I'de be feeling my whees flex... So?
from all these posts, sounds like all you motolite fans think the motolite would be stiffest bike on the planet.....including FR and DH bikes? I don't get where you guys getting these ideas. Have you guys tried any other bikes besides the motolite? Even the name has the word lite in it…..doesn’t that mean it’s light and not as stiff as bikes designed for heavier abuse?
The transition is undoubtedly stiffer than many AM and FR bikes. Not sure where this discussion about stiffness really has any point when comparing apple to orange and insisting apple is more orange.
ML is plenty stiff for its intended purpose and riding style! But there are stiffer bikes for better or worse!
"Didn't your doctor tell you to stop smoking and drinking?" George Burns "Yes but they all died"
from all these posts, sounds like all you motolite fans think the motolite would be stiffest bike on the planet.....including FR and DH bikes?
Not really... somewhere we've written the Ventanas are probably stiffer than any Titus... At least I remember doing so somewhere (regarding that Uktrailmonster chose his X-5 over the ML regards to stiffness).
Sorry for the sour grapes, Bro. But it seems that people comes here, read and understand only what they want to and the regulars here are the bad guys of the movie.
Yeah, the ML is a very stiff bike for the intended purpouse. Not more, not less.
Not really... somewhere we've written the Ventanas are probably stiffer than any Titus... At least I remember doing so somewhere (regarding that Uktrailmonster chose his X-5 over the ML regards to stiffness).
Sorry for the sour grapes, Bro. But it seems that people comes here, read and understand only what they want to and the regulars here are the bad guys of the movie.
Yeah, the ML is a very stiff bike for the intended purpouse. Not more, not less.
If anything, this board is one of the least fanboyish of the forum. I think that most guys on this board have ridden other bikes in the same category as the ML and have noticed how stiff the ML is. I'm sure there's stiffer out there, but this is not a competition of who has the stiffest either... It's just that the ML is one great package (geometry, efficiency, stiffness and weight) for its intended usage. Now, I can appreciate nice bikes from any other builder besides Titus. Personnally, I kinda like the 07 Enduro.
BTW, the Transition bike above, is that a 4X?
Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun
from all these posts, sounds like all you motolite fans think the motolite would be stiffest bike on the planet.....including FR and DH bikes? I don't get where you guys getting these ideas. Have you guys tried any other bikes besides the motolite? Even the name has the word lite in it…..doesn’t that mean it’s light and not as stiff as bikes designed for heavier abuse?
The transition is undoubtedly stiffer than many AM and FR bikes. Not sure where this discussion about stiffness really has any point when comparing apple to orange and insisting apple is more orange.
ML is plenty stiff for its intended purpose and riding style! But there are stiffer bikes for better or worse!
Ya see, "for me" it don't get much stiffer than the ML. Ya wannta know why... I don't friggin do FR DH!!!!
Hope ya read it right...
If I were on a FR bike, or the ML I'm not gonna feel anything flex, regardless of which is more stiff.
If anything, this board is one of the least fanboyish of the forum. I think that most guys on this board have ridden other bikes in the same category as the ML and have noticed how stiff the ML is. I'm sure there's stiffer out there, but this is not a competition of who has the stiffest either... It's just that the ML is one great package (geometry, efficiency, stiffness and weight) for its intended usage. Now, I can appreciate nice bikes from any other builder besides Titus. Personnally, I kinda like the 07 Enduro.
BTW, the Transition bike above, is that a 4X?
You and Warp put that very well, it just seems some folks waite around to jump on anything. I don't know why thier so worried about wether I like my bike too much.
Cool. We all know that it won't solve anything. The end result will be: XCL is better at this, the ML is better at that type deal, but it will be good fodder for online discussions.
Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun
We want blood!!! (No matter where it comes from)....
Just joking! I kinda agree with Zorg, but it will lead lots of folks to the right bike by stating both bikes strenghts and weaknesses.
I also enjoy this level of healthy competition between companies. We can only get benefited as customers.
Each mfgr (if they care about their customers) will read the results, will go back to the drawing board, and try to improve where they were weak. We can only win from stuff like these.
Not really... somewhere we've written the Ventanas are probably stiffer than any Titus... At least I remember doing so somewhere (regarding that Uktrailmonster chose his X-5 over the ML regards to stiffness).
Sorry for the sour grapes, Bro. But it seems that people comes here, read and understand only what they want to and the regulars here are the bad guys of the movie.
Yeah, the ML is a very stiff bike for the intended purpouse. Not more, not less.
Wheel build aside, my X5 rear ended frame is the stiffest full suspension trail bike I've ridden. Before this frame, my main rides for the last six years were two Quasi Motos. While feeling more active, the rear ends flexed more than the X5. I wouldn't say noodly but they were nowhere near as stiff as the X5. My comment about the Transition being more stiff than a ML comes from the fact that the Transition has a bearing in the rear most pivot, like the X5. Not a bushing. And it's not a Horst link frame, which from personal trail time, experience, and opinion, is not as stiff as a frame with the pivot above the rear axle. Just my .02 cents.
Wheel build aside, my X5 rear ended frame is the stiffest full suspension trail bike I've ridden. Before this frame, my main rides for the last six years were two Quasi Motos. While feeling more active, the rear ends flexed more than the X5. I wouldn't say noodly but they were nowhere near as stiff as the X5. My comment about the Transition being more stiff than a ML comes from the fact that the Transition has a bearing in the rear most pivot, like the X5. Not a bushing. And it's not a Horst link frame, which from personal trail time, experience, and opinion, is not as stiff as a frame with the pivot above the rear axle. Just my .02 cents.
If you take all those frames you mention, and melted them together, then mabye it would be a bike "almost" as stiff as the ML...
If you take all those frames you mention, and melted them together, then mabye it would be a bike "almost" as stiff as the ML...
Out of the 5-6 inch trailbike frames I've had serious time on, The ML has the best feeling travel of the bunch. I'd perfer another inch of travel though, so the new Titus with the Ventana name will probably be my next frame.
Out of the 5-6 inch trailbike frames I've had serious time on, The ML has the best feeling travel of the bunch. I'd perfer another inch of travel though, so the new Titus with the Ventana name will probably be my next frame.
You and Warp put that very well, it just seems some folks waite around to jump on anything. I don't know why thier so worried about wether I like my bike too much.
Because you like it so much you start lying about it and the company. People are coming for valid info and they get lies here passed off as truth as if direct from Titus
The numbers on the large ML and the large BR aren't too different. Aside from the HA. I'm thinking the bike on the Transition site is a small.
That's very interesting you should say that. I wasn't kidding when I said I really like that bike. I've almost even half thought about looking into one for my full on abuse type needs, seening how a big travel bike wouldn't really be all that useful in the "general" visinity.
Not too diffrent huh? Who knows...
Oh and Budgi!... I've gone at least 17 times that hight on my ML...but no superman seat grabs That would be CRAZY!!!
Last edited by blackagness; 08-15-2006 at 06:43 PM.
Have you guys tried any other bikes besides the motolite?
dukie duke duke, now that call is real lame, nobody jumps to a Ventana, Titus, Intense, Ellsworth, Turner on their first mtb. Most on this board making comments have riddwn a sh!t load of top end bikes...........
I dont at all say it in a biased way, cause I own a ML, but of all the 5 inch bikes I have ridden thus far, the ML is by far stiffer than a honeymooners chopper, hands down!...
The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"
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Originally Posted by zorg
And yes, the FR stays are awesome!
I guess it's not as pronounced as the HL on the XCL.
Wow, I think you may be my lost evil twin. I clicked on your profile to see where your local shop might be.
