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  1. #1
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    Imitation is the best form of flattery?

    Have you seen the new Chumba bike? It's like the front triangle of an RX with the rear suspension of an ML.

    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg
    Have you seen the new Chumba bike? It's like the front triangle of an RX with the rear suspension of an ML.

    mmmmmhhhhh... it could well work very differently. There are subtle nuances.

    The HL pivot seems to be further down as compared to a Titus. More "NRS" like, but not that exaggerated. This affects how the suspension reacts (don't ask me how, though).

    Also, you can not run the seatpost all the way in... if you happen to need it, anyway.

    I like where the gussets are welded to... the neutral axis of the tubing, less stress for the tubing and arguably, less chances for craks.

    What's the intended use? I figure XC-Race, 'cos for bigger stuff, CHumba has the EVO's.
    Last edited by Warp; 08-04-2006 at 02:00 PM.
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    I took a look at it... 4.5" travel, around 7 pounds for a M, 1700 bucks... nice indeed. It already beated the Epiphany in a review... so it could be a rival to the ML.

    However, there's two tiny details that I think (and it's just a personal opinion based on pure observation and nothing solid) that could be better on the Chumba.

    Main Pivot...



    And HL pivots...



    Looks like the ML is more solid at those areas, accounting for a stiffer frame. But it'd be nice to make a ride shootout to settle the dust down.
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    Am sitting here at home typing and steering at my ML, the beefy rare stays are amazing on the ML really, for a 5 inche frame, they are sturdy tough and way rugged..... So many new frames coming onto the scene. Surely all these manufacturers cannot survive, there is so so many...........................
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    I took a look at it... 4.5" travel, around 7 pounds for a M, 1700 bucks... nice indeed. It already beated the Epiphany in a review... so it could be a rival to the ML.

    However, there's two tiny details that I think (and it's just a personal opinion based on pure observation and nothing solid) that could be better on the Chumba.



    Looks like the ML is more solid at those areas, accounting for a stiffer frame. But it'd be nice to make a ride shootout to settle the dust down.
    Actually, the review is weird as it says that the bike geometry does not descend very well. This is odd with a 69 HA compared to the Epi 70. Their 6" travel bike looks more interesting though.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    Am sitting here at home typing and steering at my ML, the beefy rare stays are amazing on the ML really, for a 5 inche frame, they are sturdy tough and way rugged..... So many new frames coming onto the scene. Surely all these manufacturers cannot survive, there is so so many...........................
    These stays were never designed for the ML. When the bike came out last year with the narrow stays, a few of us complained, and after inquiry Titus realized the Supermoto stays would also fit on the ML. The rest is history. And yes, the FR stays are awesome!
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg
    These stays were never designed for the ML. When the bike came out last year with the narrow stays, a few of us complained, and after inquiry Titus realized the Supermoto stays would also fit on the ML. The rest is history. And yes, the FR stays are awesome!
    aha, that explains it, Inow know what everyone is chatting about when the talk about the FR lowers... All good, thanks for that sorg, you rock......................... I didnt really rate the Ellsworth Epi when I rode it briefly.....................Nice but, but it didnt agree with me... Liked the Id way more...
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg
    Actually, the review is weird as it says that the bike geometry does not descend very well. This is odd with a 69 HA compared to the Epi 70. Their 6" travel bike looks more interesting though.
    Yeah... those EVO's are dead sexy!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    aha, that explains it, Inow know what everyone is chatting about when the talk about the FR lowers... All good, thanks for that sorg, you rock......................... I didnt really rate the Ellsworth Epi when I rode it briefly.....................Nice but, but it didnt agree with me... Liked the Id way more...
    A riding buddy has an Id that he loves. I tried it, but it just felt weird to me. The cockpit was perfect and the pedaling was awesome, but the feeling of sitting so high up was a bit unnerving. Well, that and the fact that I had approx 0" clearance between the top tube and my privates...
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg
    Have you seen the new Chumba bike? It's like the front triangle of an RX with the rear suspension of an ML.

    actually, Ted (Chumba's founder) was doing Mac Strut designs -- some in conjunction with Salsa -- several years before Titus, but only as custom order frames, hence, you never saw them or heard about them. but some of us so. cal. locals have seen them.

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    Imitation? You have got to be kidding me

    I could have sworn the Jamis Dakar was around in 1997.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Imitation? You have got to be kidding me

    I could have sworn the Jamis Dakar was around in 1997.

    Yep. Must be a good design as it's still going 10 years on.
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  13. #13
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    i've actually spent time on both a motolite and a xcl...and the chumba is definitely stiffer.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by spicymaguros
    i've actually spent time on both a motolite and a xcl...and the chumba is definitely stiffer.


    Definitly stiffer huh???

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    Definitly stiffer huh???
    BA, read this before going into a flame war.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg
    BA, read this before going into a flame war.
    Hey Zorg et. al.,

    Look, I am not trying to start a flame war. I think the Motolite is a great bike, and I am not going to take sides one way or another. I was merely making an observation from my experiences. If you disagree with me, then fine, but seriously, I'm not going to get dragged into some big debate over this. Hell, I don't even own either bike. I mean, if you guys are really so passionate about this, you should just get a Chumba XCL and a Titus Motolite, and do a side-by-side comparison and decide for yourself.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by spicymaguros
    Hey Zorg et. al.,

    Look, I am not trying to start a flame war. I think the Motolite is a great bike, and I am not going to take sides one way or another. I was merely making an observation from my experiences. If you disagree with me, then fine, but seriously, I'm not going to get dragged into some big debate over this. Hell, I don't even own either bike. I mean, if you guys are really so passionate about this, you should just get a Chumba XCL and a Titus Motolite, and do a side-by-side comparison and decide for yourself.
    I think that the Chumba looks like a great bike, and the EVO looks pretty cool. I wish them success. As for the comment on rigidity, while it might be true, I have a hard time beleiving it. The ML is a really rigid frame to begin with, and I'm not sure that I'd be able to tell whether frame X or Y was more rigid just by riding it. But bear in mind that 1) I'm just 160#, 2) a crappy rider and 3) I don't jump anything meaningful. My uneducated take is that the wheels would flex long before I could detect any flex in the frame.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg
    Have you seen the new Chumba bike? It's like the front triangle of an RX with the rear suspension of an ML.

    Well if using swing link is imitation then all of the bikes mentioned here are...well imitations. Swing link is a good design that dates back to beginning of FS MTB. Chumba put swing link together with a horst link and it rides nice. Super beefy chain stay and seat stays. ML looks like it only has beefy chain stays with little tube seat stays and no hostlink. The swing link rockers on the chumba are BEEFY, nice large of CNCed piece of art. Another thing I like about the XCL is the lower BB and center of gravity, 13.5 BB height.

    I can only say this because I rode it before they came up with the new production model, my buddies have couple of the XCLs back when they were custom. It rode NICE, plush and feels like it has more travel than 4.25. Very stiff and climbs really well but unlike other XC bikes it decends really nice also. Great XCish AM bike.....and loves technical stuff, not your average fire road loving XC rig.

    Almost bought one......then the EVO came.......
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    Quote Originally Posted by spicymaguros
    Hey Zorg et. al.,

    Look, I am not trying to start a flame war. I think the Motolite is a great bike, and I am not going to take sides one way or another. I was merely making an observation from my experiences. If you disagree with me, then fine, but seriously, I'm not going to get dragged into some big debate over this. Hell, I don't even own either bike. I mean, if you guys are really so passionate about this, you should just get a Chumba XCL and a Titus Motolite, and do a side-by-side comparison and decide for yourself.

    For someone who dosn't own either bike, and doesn't even want to discuss the matter, that sure is a pretty defenit statment. But whatever, if you say that's just your opinion I'll respect that.

    But I can hardly imagen another bike "in it's class" to even be possible , that it could be stiffer in any "persevable" way, than the ML. Yet I've never been on one, but if it is, I'd sure like to give her a run. Which I suppose is entirly possible if that's an "honest" conclusion that at least one person could come to.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg
    BA, read this before going into a flame war.
    This was a very good thread, I folllowed it when it started, then didnt go back. Have elso been watching that Chumba frame and bike etc. Very interesting. Ever since I saw it way back, I have not liked it asthetically. I know, that shouldnt be the reason to purchase a bike, but never the less, it is still an important component... The look has not grown on me.....

    Reading about the frame etc, I dont think it is comparing apples with apples the ML and the Chuma XCL. I think the Chumba is a burly 6 inch strong AM frame, could be wrong, but seems that way to me.....

    I guess we watch this space....
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    What I will say with re: the XCL is that I took it up to the San Gabriels and rode some gnarly trails on it and never felt sketchy once. It is suprisingly strong and stiff, and the geometry appears to be really dialed in. Like Duke777, I was very close to pulling the trigger, but then the EVO came out and as they say, the rest is history. I don't think any XCLs have made their way outside of California, or very few, why not call Chumba and see if you can get a demo at a shop going - and settle the speculation with personal experience? They are a really personable company, I've called them and bugged them many a times. : P

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    Umm Sorta?

    Quote Originally Posted by duke777
    Well if using swing link is imitation then all of the bikes mentioned here are...well imitations. Swing link is a good design that dates back to beginning of FS MTB. Chumba put swing link together with a horst link and it rides nice. Super beefy chain stay and seat stays. ML looks like it only has beefy chain stays with little tube seat stays and no hostlink. The swing link rockers on the chumba are BEEFY, nice large of CNCed piece of art. Another thing I like about the XCL is the lower BB and center of gravity, 13.5 BB height.

    I can only say this because I rode it before they came up with the new production model, my buddies have couple of the XCLs back when they were custom. It rode NICE, plush and feels like it has more travel than 4.25. Very stiff and climbs really well but unlike other XC bikes it decends really nice also. Great XCish AM bike.....and loves technical stuff, not your average fire road loving XC rig.

    Almost bought one......then the EVO came.......


    Yeah the ML chainstay's are alot beefier than the seatstay's, but it does also have a Horst link...

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    Yeah the ML chainstay's are alot beefier than the seatstay's, but it does also have a Horst link...

    It does? My bad, I didn't see it. I even saw a few in person and checked it out. I guess it's not as pronounced as the HL on the XCL.
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    Quote Originally Posted by spicymaguros
    What I will say with re: the XCL is that I took it up to the San Gabriels and rode some gnarly trails on it and never felt sketchy once. It is suprisingly strong and stiff, and the geometry appears to be really dialed in. Like Duke777, I was very close to pulling the trigger, but then the EVO came out and as they say, the rest is history. I don't think any XCLs have made their way outside of California, or very few, why not call Chumba and see if you can get a demo at a shop going - and settle the speculation with personal experience? They are a really personable company, I've called them and bugged them many a times. : P

    If one comes along I'll giver a go. I would' be interested to know how stiff I'd find her to be. I'd bet based on your post, it's up there...

    Thanks for the feedback...

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    Quote Originally Posted by duke777
    It does? My bad, I didn't see it. I even saw a few in person and checked it out. I guess it's not as pronounced as the HL on the XCL.
    Well... the HL (though rather obvious, not flaming you, bro!) on Titus bikes is not as pronouced as on the Chumba's. The Chumba's go lower relative to wheel axle, as compared with a Titus.

    If exaggerated as in NRS's, the chain tension may interact with suspension... but I don't see it happening much on the Chumba.

    It will certainly have a different feel and ride to a ML. While the basic suspension scheme may be the old known Mac Strut, they may ride very differently.

    I also have a hard time imaginating the XCL stiffer than the ML at the rear (see my post below stating build differences)... but if Spicymag has ridden both, I have to give him some credit until someone comes with a more thorough test.

    More credit giving.... Carnetorta is right... I couldn't get concrete dates, but I saw a Salsa bike from back '95 / '96, that the rear is basically identical to the XCL and supposedly was made by Chumba's Ted Tanouye. I'm not sure if Chris was making a full Susser by then or how it was.

    However... neither Ted nor Chris were the first to use the Mac Strut design... but hey, they just made it better!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    It will certainly have a different feel and ride to a ML. While the basic suspension scheme may be the old known Mac Strut, they may ride very differently.

    I also have a hard time imaginating the XCL stiffer than the ML at the rear (see my post below stating build differences)... but if Spicymag has ridden both, I have to give him some credit until someone comes with a more thorough test.

    :
    I would say the Chumba looks stiffer, if it really is or not I can't say since I haven't tried the Motolite.

    The XCL has beefier looking seat stay, rockers, tubeset and bearings. BUT I can also bet you that the Chumba weights more too, my guess is almost 1lb heavier. Someone told me the aluminum ML is about 6.3-4???? I'm pretty sure the XCL is around 7lbs.

    Super rigid or light weight, it's a trade off and choice to make when considering one of these beauties to fit your riding style. As for me I'll pick beef over weight since I ate too much beef
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    Quote Originally Posted by duke777
    I would say the Chumba looks stiffer, if it really is or not I can't say since I haven't tried the Motolite.

    The XCL has beefier looking seat stay, rockers, tubeset and bearings. BUT I can also bet you that the Chumba weights more too, my guess is almost 1lb heavier. Someone told me the aluminum ML is about 6.3-4???? I'm pretty sure the XCL is around 7lbs.

    Super rigid or light weight, it's a trade off and choice to make when considering one of these beauties to fit your riding style. As for me I'll pick beef over weight since I ate too much beef
    Myself, I wouldnt like to speculate on stiffness in relation to frame weight, for me it has nto real re;ationship, sure to a certain level, but it the weights are correct that the XCL is indeed 500 grams heavier, for me does not translate to frame stiffness.

    We will see a side by side shoot out at some stage in the near future for sure.

    Have said it before, will say it again, there is a miriad of AM bikes lets call them coming on stream. For the life of me cannot see how they will all survive, surely there will be some rationalisation.......................Am thinking that Turner will merge with Ellsworth, that will be the first merger for sure! Then Spec will merge with Giant...... LOL LOL LMFAO..............
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    Quote Originally Posted by carnetorta
    actually, Ted (Chumba's founder) was doing Mac Strut designs -- some in conjunction with Salsa -- several years before Titus, but only as custom order frames, hence, you never saw them or heard about them. but some of us so. cal. locals have seen them.
    Wow, must have been very early adopter, check this picture of 1994 Titus:


    And it's pretty long stretch to call Nicolai frames as imitation as K Nicolai worked at AMP when they developed original linkages at 1991.

    I should get at scanning my collection of old magazines (early 90's), lot's of funny pics there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by duke777
    I would say the Chumba looks stiffer, if it really is or not I can't say since I haven't tried the Motolite.

    The XCL has beefier looking seat stay, rockers, tubeset and bearings. BUT I can also bet you that the Chumba weights more too, my guess is almost 1lb heavier. Someone told me the aluminum ML is about 6.3-4???? I'm pretty sure the XCL is around 7lbs.

    Super rigid or light weight, it's a trade off and choice to make when considering one of these beauties to fit your riding style. As for me I'll pick beef over weight since I ate too much beef
    I won't argue on the tubeset, as we don't really know what's "inside" and we really ignore the butting used in them, thickness, etc. Not necesarily, a lighter frame is weaker... chances are, but it's not black or white.

    But I may put you these pics for you to compare, and were the points I brought up before:

    1.- BB-Pivot... All Titus except Ti ones, have 4 bearings here (Ti ones use "only" three). The pic I'm showing shows the old desing, which BTW, is actually weaker than the used on '06 ML's which have a chainstay derivated from that one used on the Supermoto. Some say it's overkill.



    2.- HL... All Titus use a bushing here. The union is actually a yoke which holds the seatstay by both sides. I really can't see why the bolt used on the Chumba would stand more abuse than this HL pivot on any Titus.




    As I mentioned earlier... If someone (Spicymaguros) who rode both say the Chumba is stiffer, I give him the credit, until someone else ride them more extensively and says otherwise or samewise.

    But just from looking at the pics, it's hard to believe.
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    Hello all,

    I handle most of the sales/marketing at CHUMBA. I was browsing the forums and stumbled on this thread. It is a very interesting discussion.

    I would be more than happy to arrange some type of head-to-head shootout with the Titus Motolite - so long as it was fair and unbiased. In my experience, every bike builder has certain distinguishing characteristics, and it would be great to make this information available to the public. We recently did a shootout with the Ellsworth Epiphany with Velo Vert (Its on our website), and the review provided riders with good info. on how the two bikes differ. I would welcome such a test with the TItus Motolite as well.

    Anyone have suggestions? You can post, and I'll check back regularly or you can e-mail me at alan@chumbaracing.com.
    Last edited by CHUMBAevo; 08-07-2006 at 11:35 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUMBAevo
    Hello all,

    I handle most of the sales/marketing at CHUMBA. I was browsing the forums and stumbled on this thread. It is a very interesting discussion.

    I would be more than happy to arrange some type of head-to-head shootout with the Titus Motolite - so long as it was fair and unbiased. In my experience, every bike builder has certain distinguishing characteristics, and it would be great to make this information available to the public. We recently did a shootout with the Ellsworth Epiphany with Velo Vert (Its on our website), and the review provided riders with good info. on how the two bikes differ. I would welcome such a test with the TItus Motolite as well.

    Anyone have suggestions? You can post, and I'll check back regularly or you can e-mail me at alan@chumbaracing.com.


    Careful now!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    I won't argue on the tubeset, as we don't really know what's "inside" and we really ignore the butting used in them, thickness, etc. Not necesarily, a lighter frame is weaker... chances are, but it's not black or white.

    But I may put you these pics for you to compare, and were the points I brought up before:

    1.- BB-Pivot... All Titus except Ti ones, have 4 bearings here (Ti ones use "only" three). The pic I'm showing shows the old desing, which BTW, is actually weaker than the used on '06 ML's which have a chainstay derivated from that one used on the Supermoto. Some say it's overkill.



    2.- HL... All Titus use a bushing here. The union is actually a yoke which holds the seatstay by both sides. I really can't see why the bolt used on the Chumba would stand more abuse than this HL pivot on any Titus.




    As I mentioned earlier... If someone (Spicymaguros) who rode both say the Chumba is stiffer, I give him the credit, until someone else ride them more extensively and says otherwise or samewise.

    But just from looking at the pics, it's hard to believe.
    Well I guess it's the difference in opinions, I still think Chumba's CNCed drop out with beefy bearings looks stronger. Not sure if ML's drop out is CNCed from the pictures. BTW I'm not a big fan of bushing, they are light but they still are...well bushings. Don't take me wrong I think the ML is a great bike and has it's unique riding charactor. The chumba and ML do look alike but I think they are build a little different with different riding style in mind. So is the Nicholai which is WAY stiffer even compare to the XCL. But that's a FR bike.
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    I would really like to see a shootout - of course, in a friendly, good-spirited sort of way! Sounds like two boutique bikes from two U.S. made small companies. Would be nice to see what the differences are though, although I'm sure both would perform well. Maybe the bikes can be sent to someone at MTBR, who can do the review.
    Last edited by carnetorta; 08-08-2006 at 01:23 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by duke777
    Well I guess it's the difference in opinions, I still think Chumba's CNCed drop out with beefy bearings looks stronger. Not sure if ML's drop out is CNCed from the pictures. BTW I'm not a big fan of bushing, they are light but they still are...well bushings. Don't take me wrong I think the ML is a great bike and has it's unique riding charactor. The chumba and ML do look alike but I think they are build a little different with different riding style in mind. So is the Nicholai which is WAY stiffer even compare to the XCL. But that's a FR bike.
    forged and CNC. just the way it should be..... not just machined from plate.

    that horst drop out is a cleavis, the bolt thru the bushing is in double shear. just the way it should be done.

    and in regards to other posts.

    this stiffness comparison is dumb. there is no way anyone could get on a ML ride it and think, wow thats got more flex then my XLC. more like you are feeling the tires flex or the wheels. it is just dumb, I call BS.... and thats not a knock on chumba, the bikes look good to me.

    flex is a big deal and its #1 on my list when I'm looking at a bike. some bikes realy suck and flex. ML is not one of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    forged and CNC. just the way it should be..... not just machined from plate.

    that horst drop out is a cleavis, the bolt thru the bushing is in double shear. just the way it should be done.

    and in regards to other posts.

    this stiffness comparison is dumb. there is no way anyone could get on a ML ride it and think, wow thats got more flex then my XLC. more like you are feeling the tires flex or the wheels. it is just dumb, I call BS.... and thats not a knock on chumba, the bikes look good to me.

    flex is a big deal and its #1 on my list when I'm looking at a bike. some bikes realy suck and flex. ML is not one of them.

    The MotoLite is STIFFER than a honeymooner's chopper.
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  36. #36
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    Here is a review I found of a guy who was on a Motolite jumping on an EVO. Not quite an XCL, but still a good thread. The Chumba EVO-lution!

  37. #37
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by carnetorta
    I would really like to see a shootout - of course, in a friendly, good-spirited sort of way! Sounds like two boutique bikes from two U.S. made small companies. Would be nice to see what the differences are though, although I'm sure both would perform well. Maybe the bikes can be sent to someone at MTBR, who can do the review.
    Yup... someone like Francois who makes the top-dog reviews and he's unbiased.
    Check my Site

  38. #38
    Bike to the Bone...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    Yup... someone like Francois who makes the top-dog reviews and he's unbiased.
    I'd love to test that bike, but, honestly:

    1. I'm not that unbiased
    2. I'm not that experienced as to really measure them

    Anyway, I love my bike, but I don't think it's the only good one out there.

  39. #39
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    I would email the companies and see if they're willing to do it for Interbike.

  40. #40
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    There's only one way to settle it - a shootout! I see CHUMBA has already accepted, which doesn't suprise me given their racing heritage. Titus?? C,mon we need the excitement.

  41. #41
    Paper or plastic?
    Reputation: zorg's Avatar
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    Contact Dulyebr, he's in socal.
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  42. #42
    thats right living legend
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    Naw...

    Quote Originally Posted by zorg
    Contact Dulyebr, he's in socal.

    Duly's way to sfelt, Demoslug would be my choice...

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    Duly's way to sfelt, Demoslug would be my choice...
    Send one to both.
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  44. #44
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    so what's the word from Titus? Are they going to participate?

  45. #45
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    <!-- begin wn --><!-- google_ad_region_start=def -->svelte
    adj 1: showing a high degree of refinement and the assurance that comes from wide social experience; "his polished manner"; "maintained an urbane tone in his letters" [syn: polished, refined, urbane] 2: gracefully slender; moving and bending with ease [syn: lissome, lissom, lithe, lithesome, slender, supple, sylphlike]

    Go ahead and send me Chumba. Would love to try one out!

    My local shop just started selling them.

    <!-- google_ad_region_end=def -->

  46. #46
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dulyebr
    Go ahead and send me Chumba. Would love to try one out!

    My local shop just started selling them.
    Wow, I think you may be my lost evil twin. I clicked on your profile to see where your local shop might be.

    Same car.
    Same age.
    Same city.

    But...I have a Chumba, not a Titus.

  47. #47
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    CHUMBA XCL - Titus Motolite Shootout Update:

    Francis, godfather of MTBR, has agreed to do the bike comparison. I have a XCL ready to go to him next week. I called Titus and left a message with their marketing manager. I'm pretty sure they will agree to send a bike to Francis as well, I just need to get confirmation on that.

    Once Titus confirms, we can let the games begin!
    Simple | Proven | Reliable

    http://chumbaracing.blogspot.com/

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUMBAevo
    CHUMBA XCL - Titus Motolite Shootout Update:

    Francis, godfather of MTBR, has agreed to do the bike comparison. I have a XCL ready to go to him next week. I called Titus and left a message with their marketing manager. I'm pretty sure they will agree to send a bike to Francis as well, I just need to get confirmation on that.

    Once Titus confirms, we can let the games begin!
    Sounds like fun to me! When do you guys bring your bikes up to Norcal for a demo day like some of the other brands?
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  49. #49
    "Its All Good"
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    Sounds great. Will be waiting with anticipation (Rocky Horror Picture Show Antcipation)

    Its not about winning every battle, its about winning the war..................Maw ha ha ha
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  50. #50
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    Have them throw a Yeti 575 in the comparo...

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