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  1. #1
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    Hey Whafe - crossposted from the Yeti forum.

    Hey Whafe!

    Funny that you're sniffing around 575, me too. I'm also a somewhat new MotoLite owner (5 months), and while I really wanted to like the ML, I'm pretty disappointed with a few things and I'm taking a serious look at a frame swap. Because of Titus' b-i-g jump in frame size between Small and Medium frames, I opted for a Small (I'm 5'7", stout build 195lbs). What I didn't realize prior to purchase about the ML small, was the difference in shock stroke length. While Titus clams the same suspension performance for all sizes, my results don't agree. I blow through most if not all of the shock travel on "nothing" trails in 5" mode. I end up in the 4" mode, ProPedal on firm (Pushed shock BTW) and damn near 240 lbs of pressure in the rear shock! I've got a Vegas / St. George / Gooseberry trip planned in October and I'm thinking I won't be very happy on the ML in it's present state.

    What I wanted was a 5" trailbike with a compliant, somewhat active, suspension. What I ended up with is a 4" bike that I worry about every time I take a ~2 foot drop. I've got other complaints but they're component related (Avid Juicy 7's). Over all, the Titus hasn't proven to be the bike I was hoping for.

    I'm trying to round up a Medium 575 test ride this week. You're right, the White / Raw frame is a looker! So if the test ride suits my style and body, I'll probably be defecting from the Titus camp.

    Am I missing something vital here? Any other mini-clydes having issues on ML. I'd even try another shock like the DHX but it's not available in the size required by the small frame(6.25 x 1.5) Any recommedations? Anyone... Bueller... anyone?

  2. #2
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    Hey Whafe!

    Funny that you're sniffing around 575, me too. I'm also a somewhat new MotoLite owner (5 months), and while I really wanted to like the ML, I'm pretty disappointed with a few things and I'm taking a serious look at a frame swap. Because of Titus' b-i-g jump in frame size between Small and Medium frames, I opted for a Small (I'm 5'7", stout build 195lbs). What I didn't realize prior to purchase about the ML small, was the difference in shock stroke length. While Titus clams the same suspension performance for all sizes, my results don't agree. I blow through most if not all of the shock travel on "nothing" trails in 5" mode. I end up in the 4" mode, ProPedal on firm (Pushed shock BTW) and damn near 240 lbs of pressure in the rear shock! I've got a Vegas / St. George / Gooseberry trip planned in October and I'm thinking I won't be very happy on the ML in it's present state.

    What I wanted was a 5" trailbike with a compliant, somewhat active, suspension. What I ended up with is a 4" bike that I worry about every time I take a ~2 foot drop. I've got other complaints but they're component related (Avid Juicy 7's). Over all, the Titus hasn't proven to be the bike I was hoping for.

    I'm trying to round up a Medium 575 test ride this week. You're right, the White / Raw frame is a looker! So if the test ride suits my style and body, I'll probably be defecting from the Titus camp.

    Am I missing something vital here? Any other mini-clydes having issues on ML. I'd even try another shock like the DHX but it's not available in the size required by the small frame(6.25 x 1.5) Any recommedations? Anyone... Bueller... anyone?
    Push Industries?

    Their latest tunes include controlling bottom out with both damping and a rubber bumper. Try also reducing the size of the air chamber of the shock by using more Fox Float Fliud or even grease. This will reduce the size of the chamber and will make the air shock more progressive.

    There's one more option but it's way expensive... the Cane Creek Double Barrel that can be made in your size (I think) and Ohlins... I mean, Cane Creek tunes it to your specs.

    I hope you can "keep it in the family". I think Push can sort it out for you.
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  3. #3
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    I just got the shock back from Push Industries about 10 days ago so I'm assuming it's done up with their latest tricks. It's an RP3 (06) model from early this year after the whole bad seals mess.

    I'm not quite sure what you're referring to by "adding Fox Float Fluid". Is there a tech. document on Fox's website that you could point me to. I really would like to retain the ML and a fix is undoubtedly going to be cheaper than a new frame and the attendant hassle of selling the ML.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    I just got the shock back from Push Industries about 10 days ago so I'm assuming it's done up with their latest tricks. It's an RP3 (06) model from early this year after the whole bad seals mess.

    I'm not quite sure what you're referring to by "adding Fox Float Fluid". Is there a tech. document on Fox's website that you could point me to. I really would like to retain the ML and a fix is undoubtedly going to be cheaper than a new frame and the attendant hassle of selling the ML.
    Basically, removing the shock sleeve and putting some grease in will decrease the shock volume and make it more progressive.

    Another option could be to replace the current sleeve with a AVA one, (I'm not totally sure if there's one that fits your shock). If so, it'd let you "fine tuning" how progressive the should would be.

  5. #5
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss

    What I wanted was a 5" trailbike with a compliant, somewhat active, suspension. What I ended up with is a 4" bike that I worry about every time I take a ~2 foot drop. Am I missing something vital here? Any other mini-clydes having issues on ML. I'd even try another shock like the DHX but it's not available in the size required by the small frame(6.25 x 1.5) Any recommedations? Anyone... Bueller... anyone?
    Hey Dangeruss,
    Any reason in particular you are worried about the frame? I'm 170+ gear and I'm pretty impressed with what my motolite has withstood so far. I'm not going into details, but I don't think there's much for you to worry about in terms of durability.

    Have you considered trying a coil shock? The motolite can take one, and with it's linear rate, it would make a huge difference in feel. The small air shock ramps up quickly due to it's small air spring, but a coil would feel smooth and plush throughout it's travel.

  6. #6
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    You don't fit the profile...

    for the average "small" person. I would not blame Titus for something they couldn't control, which is your genetic disposition. The stock small ML was NOT designed to accomodate that weight given the higher leverage design.

    You definately have the wrong bike for your weight. This is common knowledge around here so I don't know how you missed it??

    You should be looking at custom build.

    I would hurry because you don't what to ride Gooseberry etc with a bike that doesnt' work for you.

    Bummer dude.

    Regards,

    EndUser
    My advice and $3 will buy you nothing more than a tunafish sandwich.

  7. #7
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    I've considered a coil, but I've not had much success finding a 6.5 eye-to-eye coil of decent spec. Coils seem to be falling out of favor these days. Any suggestions?

  8. #8
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    I don't believe I was blaming Titus for much if anything. Just stating my issues, looking for suggestions or solutions including alternate framemakers. I've had no problems with other medium frames but they all measure 17 - 7.5" or so. Titus' medium is 18.5 and was just too big for me when I demo'd it.

    Obviously I missed those nuggets of info. It would have been nice to find that sort of stuff on the Titus site though, rather than be required to search for frame leverage ratio differences I was unaware of on a user's forum.

    If I elect to get a diff. frame, I'm sure I'll have no problem finding a buyer for my ML.

  9. #9
    "Its All Good"
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    i have yet to see a weight restriction on the Titus site etc, point me there if indeed it is please.

    And there was not one muttering from Dangerruss that he was blaming Titus or anyone for that matter....

    My Push'd RP23 just arrived form Bob in the States today, will see it when i get home. Wonder if that would make any difference..... As FM says, hearign soem good reports on the DHX Coil though, could be the way to go......

    Let us know...
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  10. #10
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    Dangeruss,

    AFAIK, the S and XS ML use a 6.5x1.5 rather than 6.25x1.5. You could get a coil shock with those measurements from Romic (actually a Twin Tube Coil), and even you could order it custom tuned to your weight, ML suspension design and kind of riding that you use to do.

    Take a look at Romic Twin Tube Coil shock

    By the way, when I was buying my ML I was tempted to get a small (I'm between sizes) and I was concerned about how good the suspension could work for I guy weighting 175 lb (all gear on), just like myself. Looking for information about how good the rear suspension could work, I found out that Titus tested a ML prototype with small frame specifications (just a longer TT) that was ridden by a 185 lb rider, and it performed well. However, it's worth to mention that they were using 250psi, so I'm just wondering if you are getting the right sag with 240 psi. Obviously, it's quite a high pressure in the rear shock, but then again, according to Fox you could use up to 300 psi on those shocks.

    Edit 1: Deleted a repeated sentence.
    Last edited by Tavinho; 08-08-2006 at 08:30 AM.

  11. #11
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    Lots of great coils to be had, but not any in a 6.5x1.5 size.

    None of Manitou, Fox, RockShox, Romic, current coils are available in that size. Stratos makes one, but to me it's an unknown entity. Older Vanilla models would fit, but have no damping features. I can't find any sizing info on Cane Creeks new Double Barrel model, and it seems like overkill anyway.

    I'm trying to determine if a Manitou Swinger Air 4 way would suit. It has tunable features for progressive air rate so you can tune how it ramps up towards the bottom of the stroke. Sounds interesting. It seems to have a similar form factor to the DHX air so I expect it would fit with the correct bushings.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    Lots of great coils to be had, but not any in a 6.5x1.5 size.

    None of Manitou, Fox, RockShox, Romic, current coils are available in that size. Stratos makes one, but to me it's an unknown entity. Older Vanilla models would fit, but have no damping features. I can't find any sizing info on Cane Creeks new Double Barrel model, and it seems like overkill anyway.

    I'm trying to determine if a Manitou Swinger Air 4 way would suit. It has tunable features for progressive air rate so you can tune how it ramps up towards the bottom of the stroke. Sounds interesting. It seems to have a similar form factor to the DHX air so I expect it would fit with the correct bushings.
    Huh? According to Romic website, 6.5x1.5 is a standard size...
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  13. #13
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    Thanks, I'll look at that shock. Yeah, you're correct on the shock dims. It was late when I was trying to remember the dimensions.

    Although, I'm measuring a "proper" .325" of static sag with 240psi, perhaps I'm just not using sufficent air pressure in the shock as you suggest. I didn't think you could go that high. Sounds like a lot! I'll boost it up and report my findings. A shot of air would be on helluva cheap fix! I won't get to it until tonight, but I'll play around with it.

  14. #14
    thats right living legend
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    Mabye???

    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    Thanks, I'll look at that shock. Yeah, you're correct on the shock dims. It was late when I was trying to remember the dimensions.

    Although, I'm measuring a "proper" .325" of static sag with 240psi, perhaps I'm just not using sufficent air pressure in the shock as you suggest. I didn't think you could go that high. Sounds like a lot! I'll boost it up and report my findings. A shot of air would be on helluva cheap fix! I won't get to it until tonight, but I'll play around with it.

    Ya know... that might just work, be sure to let us know...Good luck!

  15. #15
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    Yeah... I'm sure to feel a bit of a fool if that sorts it out. I'll be pleased if that all it took though.

  16. #16
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    Did you buy that one on Ebay? Have you ridden it yet?

  17. #17
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    Just one more question: Even when this could sound like a stupid one, when you say that your shock is already Push'd, was it Push'd for you? I mean, for your current weight, based on ML Small frame and you riding style? If so, you could give a call to Darren @ Push Industries because something could be wrong with shock valving and they'll take care of it; if not, then it could be the problem itself (a shock tuned for totally different conditions).

    Just my 2 cents

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    Did you buy that one on Ebay? Have you ridden it yet?
    Whom are you asking?

  19. #19
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    You...
    http://cgi.ebay.com/Romic-D-Shock-6-...QQcmdZViewItem

    Winning bidder: tavinhocr05 <--- not you?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    You...
    http://cgi.ebay.com/Romic-D-Shock-6-...QQcmdZViewItem

    Winning bidder: tavinhocr05 <--- not you?
    Yeap, that's me! However, that's for a friend of mine who asked me to bid in his behalf. It's going to a Specialized Stumpjumper FSR and he'll try it (probably) by the next weekend.

    My ML is a M size and uses a 7 7/8 x 2 shock.

  21. #21
    "Its All Good"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    Yeah... I'm sure to feel a bit of a fool if that sorts it out. I'll be pleased if that all it took though.
    thats nothing dude, i have looked way dumber many times, and I am sure I will many times in the future too....

    Lets hope it sorts it.

    I am off home to drool over the Push'd RP23, just for me

    Best of Luck Dangeruss....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  22. #22
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    I supplied Push Ind. with frame info, my weight, riding style, what pressure I was running and so on. When it came back it seemed even softer, which I sort of expected. (plusher, yet more progressive) I'm still blowing through what I think is too much travel on minor trail features. I live in Texas, so admittedly my local trails are nothing like N.E. or CO. rock gardens or filled with big hits. We have them, but they're not the norm. I expected the ML to be loafing on my trails rather than using so much travel.

    To contrast - I also have a Giant NRS 1 (4") and an AC1 (5.5") -both medium frames. I'm running less shock preload (air / coil) and using much less of a percentage of travel on those bikes on the same trails. I can take 3 footers on the NRS and 4foot+ to flat with the AC and not bottom either shock. Not an apple-to-apple comparo, but I would damn well expect a contemporary 5-inch trailbike to handle the same stuff better than my 4 year old XC rig. I can hop on my wife's medium Prophet and even without increasing the air pressure, use less travel.

    I'm unsure what happens inside an air shock running nearly 300psi when it bottoms out. I don't want to be 45 minutes into an Western Spirit biking vacation and have my shock go ka-friggin-boom on the first sizable drop I take.

  23. #23
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    Gotcha.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    I supplied Push Ind. with frame info, my weight, riding style, what pressure I was running and so on. When it came back it seemed even softer, which I sort of expected. (plusher, yet more progressive) I'm still blowing through what I think is too much travel on minor trail features. I live in Texas, so admittedly my local trails are nothing like N.E. or CO. rock gardens or filled with big hits. We have them, but they're not the norm. I expected the ML to be loafing on my trails rather than using so much travel.

    To contrast - I also have a Giant NRS 1 (4") and an AC1 (5.5") -both medium frames. I'm running less shock preload (air / coil) and using much less of a percentage of travel on those bikes on the same trails. I can take 3 footers on the NRS and 4foot+ to flat with the AC and not bottom either shock. Not an apple-to-apple comparo, but I would damn well expect a contemporary 5-inch trailbike to handle the same stuff better than my 4 year old XC rig. I can hop on my wife's medium Prophet and even without increasing the air pressure, use less travel.

    I'm unsure what happens inside an air shock running nearly 300psi when it bottoms out. I don't want to be 45 minutes into an Western Spirit biking vacation and have my shock go ka-friggin-boom on the first sizable drop I take.
    It shouldn't happen anything, because it's between the range (50psi-300psi) recommended by Mfgr (I pretty much sure that range is narrower than shock could manage under extreme conditions, but manufactures always try to play safe, right?). However, if 270psi or so doesn't fix the problem, I'd definitely give Push Ind. a call and ask them to take a look at it.

    Good Luck
    Last edited by Tavinho; 08-08-2006 at 09:33 AM.

  25. #25
    No, that's not phonetic
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    I thought the ML has a progressive, rising rate suspension and the 575 has a progressive, falling rate suspension (at least early in the stroke)?

    Will a 575 fix his issues?

    A coil has a linear spring rate behavior. Sounds like you need a more progressive spring rate like air shocks produce. Not sure going to a coil will help you either.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

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