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  1. #1
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    Hey Whafe - crossposted from the Yeti forum.

    Hey Whafe!

    Funny that you're sniffing around 575, me too. I'm also a somewhat new MotoLite owner (5 months), and while I really wanted to like the ML, I'm pretty disappointed with a few things and I'm taking a serious look at a frame swap. Because of Titus' b-i-g jump in frame size between Small and Medium frames, I opted for a Small (I'm 5'7", stout build 195lbs). What I didn't realize prior to purchase about the ML small, was the difference in shock stroke length. While Titus clams the same suspension performance for all sizes, my results don't agree. I blow through most if not all of the shock travel on "nothing" trails in 5" mode. I end up in the 4" mode, ProPedal on firm (Pushed shock BTW) and damn near 240 lbs of pressure in the rear shock! I've got a Vegas / St. George / Gooseberry trip planned in October and I'm thinking I won't be very happy on the ML in it's present state.

    What I wanted was a 5" trailbike with a compliant, somewhat active, suspension. What I ended up with is a 4" bike that I worry about every time I take a ~2 foot drop. I've got other complaints but they're component related (Avid Juicy 7's). Over all, the Titus hasn't proven to be the bike I was hoping for.

    I'm trying to round up a Medium 575 test ride this week. You're right, the White / Raw frame is a looker! So if the test ride suits my style and body, I'll probably be defecting from the Titus camp.

    Am I missing something vital here? Any other mini-clydes having issues on ML. I'd even try another shock like the DHX but it's not available in the size required by the small frame(6.25 x 1.5) Any recommedations? Anyone... Bueller... anyone?

  2. #2
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    Hey Whafe!

    Funny that you're sniffing around 575, me too. I'm also a somewhat new MotoLite owner (5 months), and while I really wanted to like the ML, I'm pretty disappointed with a few things and I'm taking a serious look at a frame swap. Because of Titus' b-i-g jump in frame size between Small and Medium frames, I opted for a Small (I'm 5'7", stout build 195lbs). What I didn't realize prior to purchase about the ML small, was the difference in shock stroke length. While Titus clams the same suspension performance for all sizes, my results don't agree. I blow through most if not all of the shock travel on "nothing" trails in 5" mode. I end up in the 4" mode, ProPedal on firm (Pushed shock BTW) and damn near 240 lbs of pressure in the rear shock! I've got a Vegas / St. George / Gooseberry trip planned in October and I'm thinking I won't be very happy on the ML in it's present state.

    What I wanted was a 5" trailbike with a compliant, somewhat active, suspension. What I ended up with is a 4" bike that I worry about every time I take a ~2 foot drop. I've got other complaints but they're component related (Avid Juicy 7's). Over all, the Titus hasn't proven to be the bike I was hoping for.

    I'm trying to round up a Medium 575 test ride this week. You're right, the White / Raw frame is a looker! So if the test ride suits my style and body, I'll probably be defecting from the Titus camp.

    Am I missing something vital here? Any other mini-clydes having issues on ML. I'd even try another shock like the DHX but it's not available in the size required by the small frame(6.25 x 1.5) Any recommedations? Anyone... Bueller... anyone?
    Push Industries?

    Their latest tunes include controlling bottom out with both damping and a rubber bumper. Try also reducing the size of the air chamber of the shock by using more Fox Float Fliud or even grease. This will reduce the size of the chamber and will make the air shock more progressive.

    There's one more option but it's way expensive... the Cane Creek Double Barrel that can be made in your size (I think) and Ohlins... I mean, Cane Creek tunes it to your specs.

    I hope you can "keep it in the family". I think Push can sort it out for you.
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  3. #3
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    I just got the shock back from Push Industries about 10 days ago so I'm assuming it's done up with their latest tricks. It's an RP3 (06) model from early this year after the whole bad seals mess.

    I'm not quite sure what you're referring to by "adding Fox Float Fluid". Is there a tech. document on Fox's website that you could point me to. I really would like to retain the ML and a fix is undoubtedly going to be cheaper than a new frame and the attendant hassle of selling the ML.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    I just got the shock back from Push Industries about 10 days ago so I'm assuming it's done up with their latest tricks. It's an RP3 (06) model from early this year after the whole bad seals mess.

    I'm not quite sure what you're referring to by "adding Fox Float Fluid". Is there a tech. document on Fox's website that you could point me to. I really would like to retain the ML and a fix is undoubtedly going to be cheaper than a new frame and the attendant hassle of selling the ML.
    Basically, removing the shock sleeve and putting some grease in will decrease the shock volume and make it more progressive.

    Another option could be to replace the current sleeve with a AVA one, (I'm not totally sure if there's one that fits your shock). If so, it'd let you "fine tuning" how progressive the should would be.

  5. #5
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss

    What I wanted was a 5" trailbike with a compliant, somewhat active, suspension. What I ended up with is a 4" bike that I worry about every time I take a ~2 foot drop. Am I missing something vital here? Any other mini-clydes having issues on ML. I'd even try another shock like the DHX but it's not available in the size required by the small frame(6.25 x 1.5) Any recommedations? Anyone... Bueller... anyone?
    Hey Dangeruss,
    Any reason in particular you are worried about the frame? I'm 170+ gear and I'm pretty impressed with what my motolite has withstood so far. I'm not going into details, but I don't think there's much for you to worry about in terms of durability.

    Have you considered trying a coil shock? The motolite can take one, and with it's linear rate, it would make a huge difference in feel. The small air shock ramps up quickly due to it's small air spring, but a coil would feel smooth and plush throughout it's travel.

  6. #6
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    You don't fit the profile...

    for the average "small" person. I would not blame Titus for something they couldn't control, which is your genetic disposition. The stock small ML was NOT designed to accomodate that weight given the higher leverage design.

    You definately have the wrong bike for your weight. This is common knowledge around here so I don't know how you missed it??

    You should be looking at custom build.

    I would hurry because you don't what to ride Gooseberry etc with a bike that doesnt' work for you.

    Bummer dude.

    Regards,

    EndUser
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  7. #7
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    I've considered a coil, but I've not had much success finding a 6.5 eye-to-eye coil of decent spec. Coils seem to be falling out of favor these days. Any suggestions?

  8. #8
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    I don't believe I was blaming Titus for much if anything. Just stating my issues, looking for suggestions or solutions including alternate framemakers. I've had no problems with other medium frames but they all measure 17 - 7.5" or so. Titus' medium is 18.5 and was just too big for me when I demo'd it.

    Obviously I missed those nuggets of info. It would have been nice to find that sort of stuff on the Titus site though, rather than be required to search for frame leverage ratio differences I was unaware of on a user's forum.

    If I elect to get a diff. frame, I'm sure I'll have no problem finding a buyer for my ML.

  9. #9
    "Its All Good"
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    i have yet to see a weight restriction on the Titus site etc, point me there if indeed it is please.

    And there was not one muttering from Dangerruss that he was blaming Titus or anyone for that matter....

    My Push'd RP23 just arrived form Bob in the States today, will see it when i get home. Wonder if that would make any difference..... As FM says, hearign soem good reports on the DHX Coil though, could be the way to go......

    Let us know...
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

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    Dangeruss,

    AFAIK, the S and XS ML use a 6.5x1.5 rather than 6.25x1.5. You could get a coil shock with those measurements from Romic (actually a Twin Tube Coil), and even you could order it custom tuned to your weight, ML suspension design and kind of riding that you use to do.

    Take a look at Romic Twin Tube Coil shock

    By the way, when I was buying my ML I was tempted to get a small (I'm between sizes) and I was concerned about how good the suspension could work for I guy weighting 175 lb (all gear on), just like myself. Looking for information about how good the rear suspension could work, I found out that Titus tested a ML prototype with small frame specifications (just a longer TT) that was ridden by a 185 lb rider, and it performed well. However, it's worth to mention that they were using 250psi, so I'm just wondering if you are getting the right sag with 240 psi. Obviously, it's quite a high pressure in the rear shock, but then again, according to Fox you could use up to 300 psi on those shocks.

    Edit 1: Deleted a repeated sentence.
    Last edited by Tavinho; 08-08-2006 at 08:30 AM.

  11. #11
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    Lots of great coils to be had, but not any in a 6.5x1.5 size.

    None of Manitou, Fox, RockShox, Romic, current coils are available in that size. Stratos makes one, but to me it's an unknown entity. Older Vanilla models would fit, but have no damping features. I can't find any sizing info on Cane Creeks new Double Barrel model, and it seems like overkill anyway.

    I'm trying to determine if a Manitou Swinger Air 4 way would suit. It has tunable features for progressive air rate so you can tune how it ramps up towards the bottom of the stroke. Sounds interesting. It seems to have a similar form factor to the DHX air so I expect it would fit with the correct bushings.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    Lots of great coils to be had, but not any in a 6.5x1.5 size.

    None of Manitou, Fox, RockShox, Romic, current coils are available in that size. Stratos makes one, but to me it's an unknown entity. Older Vanilla models would fit, but have no damping features. I can't find any sizing info on Cane Creeks new Double Barrel model, and it seems like overkill anyway.

    I'm trying to determine if a Manitou Swinger Air 4 way would suit. It has tunable features for progressive air rate so you can tune how it ramps up towards the bottom of the stroke. Sounds interesting. It seems to have a similar form factor to the DHX air so I expect it would fit with the correct bushings.
    Huh? According to Romic website, 6.5x1.5 is a standard size...
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  13. #13
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    Thanks, I'll look at that shock. Yeah, you're correct on the shock dims. It was late when I was trying to remember the dimensions.

    Although, I'm measuring a "proper" .325" of static sag with 240psi, perhaps I'm just not using sufficent air pressure in the shock as you suggest. I didn't think you could go that high. Sounds like a lot! I'll boost it up and report my findings. A shot of air would be on helluva cheap fix! I won't get to it until tonight, but I'll play around with it.

  14. #14
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    Mabye???

    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    Thanks, I'll look at that shock. Yeah, you're correct on the shock dims. It was late when I was trying to remember the dimensions.

    Although, I'm measuring a "proper" .325" of static sag with 240psi, perhaps I'm just not using sufficent air pressure in the shock as you suggest. I didn't think you could go that high. Sounds like a lot! I'll boost it up and report my findings. A shot of air would be on helluva cheap fix! I won't get to it until tonight, but I'll play around with it.

    Ya know... that might just work, be sure to let us know...Good luck!

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    Yeah... I'm sure to feel a bit of a fool if that sorts it out. I'll be pleased if that all it took though.

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    Did you buy that one on Ebay? Have you ridden it yet?

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    Just one more question: Even when this could sound like a stupid one, when you say that your shock is already Push'd, was it Push'd for you? I mean, for your current weight, based on ML Small frame and you riding style? If so, you could give a call to Darren @ Push Industries because something could be wrong with shock valving and they'll take care of it; if not, then it could be the problem itself (a shock tuned for totally different conditions).

    Just my 2 cents

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    Did you buy that one on Ebay? Have you ridden it yet?
    Whom are you asking?

  19. #19
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    You...
    http://cgi.ebay.com/Romic-D-Shock-6-...QQcmdZViewItem

    Winning bidder: tavinhocr05 <--- not you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    You...
    http://cgi.ebay.com/Romic-D-Shock-6-...QQcmdZViewItem

    Winning bidder: tavinhocr05 <--- not you?
    Yeap, that's me! However, that's for a friend of mine who asked me to bid in his behalf. It's going to a Specialized Stumpjumper FSR and he'll try it (probably) by the next weekend.

    My ML is a M size and uses a 7 7/8 x 2 shock.

  21. #21
    "Its All Good"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    Yeah... I'm sure to feel a bit of a fool if that sorts it out. I'll be pleased if that all it took though.
    thats nothing dude, i have looked way dumber many times, and I am sure I will many times in the future too....

    Lets hope it sorts it.

    I am off home to drool over the Push'd RP23, just for me

    Best of Luck Dangeruss....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  22. #22
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    I supplied Push Ind. with frame info, my weight, riding style, what pressure I was running and so on. When it came back it seemed even softer, which I sort of expected. (plusher, yet more progressive) I'm still blowing through what I think is too much travel on minor trail features. I live in Texas, so admittedly my local trails are nothing like N.E. or CO. rock gardens or filled with big hits. We have them, but they're not the norm. I expected the ML to be loafing on my trails rather than using so much travel.

    To contrast - I also have a Giant NRS 1 (4") and an AC1 (5.5") -both medium frames. I'm running less shock preload (air / coil) and using much less of a percentage of travel on those bikes on the same trails. I can take 3 footers on the NRS and 4foot+ to flat with the AC and not bottom either shock. Not an apple-to-apple comparo, but I would damn well expect a contemporary 5-inch trailbike to handle the same stuff better than my 4 year old XC rig. I can hop on my wife's medium Prophet and even without increasing the air pressure, use less travel.

    I'm unsure what happens inside an air shock running nearly 300psi when it bottoms out. I don't want to be 45 minutes into an Western Spirit biking vacation and have my shock go ka-friggin-boom on the first sizable drop I take.

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    Gotcha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    I supplied Push Ind. with frame info, my weight, riding style, what pressure I was running and so on. When it came back it seemed even softer, which I sort of expected. (plusher, yet more progressive) I'm still blowing through what I think is too much travel on minor trail features. I live in Texas, so admittedly my local trails are nothing like N.E. or CO. rock gardens or filled with big hits. We have them, but they're not the norm. I expected the ML to be loafing on my trails rather than using so much travel.

    To contrast - I also have a Giant NRS 1 (4") and an AC1 (5.5") -both medium frames. I'm running less shock preload (air / coil) and using much less of a percentage of travel on those bikes on the same trails. I can take 3 footers on the NRS and 4foot+ to flat with the AC and not bottom either shock. Not an apple-to-apple comparo, but I would damn well expect a contemporary 5-inch trailbike to handle the same stuff better than my 4 year old XC rig. I can hop on my wife's medium Prophet and even without increasing the air pressure, use less travel.

    I'm unsure what happens inside an air shock running nearly 300psi when it bottoms out. I don't want to be 45 minutes into an Western Spirit biking vacation and have my shock go ka-friggin-boom on the first sizable drop I take.
    It shouldn't happen anything, because it's between the range (50psi-300psi) recommended by Mfgr (I pretty much sure that range is narrower than shock could manage under extreme conditions, but manufactures always try to play safe, right?). However, if 270psi or so doesn't fix the problem, I'd definitely give Push Ind. a call and ask them to take a look at it.

    Good Luck
    Last edited by Tavinho; 08-08-2006 at 09:33 AM.

  25. #25
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    I thought the ML has a progressive, rising rate suspension and the 575 has a progressive, falling rate suspension (at least early in the stroke)?

    Will a 575 fix his issues?

    A coil has a linear spring rate behavior. Sounds like you need a more progressive spring rate like air shocks produce. Not sure going to a coil will help you either.
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  26. #26
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    Good points. I've pretty well prioritized my solutions;
    1. - Explore further tuning options with my shock by adding more pressure or decreasing air volume by adding grease to the air sleeve innards (or both).
    2. - Have the shock rebuilt with an AVA canister (if possible)
    3. - Try other shock options like the Swinger 4-way.
    4. - Consider a new frame from another maker with different geometry in a medium size.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    I thought the ML has a progressive, rising rate suspension and the 575 has a progressive, falling rate suspension (at least early in the stroke)?

    Will a 575 fix his issues?

    A coil has a linear spring rate behavior. Sounds like you need a more progressive spring rate like air shocks produce. Not sure going to a coil will help you either.
    Tscheezy, the smaller motolites use a smaller (6.5x1.5?) shock. I think D's complaints revolve around the performance of the shorter stroke shock under his weight, requiring him to run higher than ideal pressures.

    FWIW, I think Titus's design here makes sense here, as somebody D's height but weighing 100lbs would probably not be happy with an Rp3 at 90psi.

    But, maybe I am wrong! D's not happy with his motolite but we're not sure exaclty why. Is it the geometry/fit, or the suspension performance? besides having to run higher pressures, what is it about the suspension that isn't working?

  28. #28
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    My disappointment stems from purchasing the ML to ride more aggressively than I felt I could on my XC bike, and with less weight than my FR bike. I'm using far more susp. travel than on my 4" XC NRS (medium). When riding it seems I can soak a bigger hit on my old NRS than my new ML without nearly bottoming out the shock.

    I can hit a nice easy 2 footer at speed on the NRS (which also has a 6.5x1.5 shock) and have my travel o-ring still indicate about 1/4 of the shock stroke unused. In contrast, same hit, same speed on the ML pushes the O-ring completely off the shock shaft. Mind you this is on my ML with sag correctly set at about .325".

    On medium and large frames 200 lb riders aren't experiencing these issues and they're running less than their body weight in shock psi. I'm under that weight on a small, running well over my body weight and still squashing the snot outta the shock and getting more pedal bob than I care for. To me that seems off, and that it likely stems from the different leverage ratio I got with the small frame.

    As I indicated, I'll increase the shock pressure some more and see what I get. I'm not adverse to running sky-high pressures if that's what it takes. I do have some concerns about shock durability at that elevated pressure. My thinking is that an under stressed seal is less likely to fail under load than a highly stressed one.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    My disappointment stems from purchasing the ML to ride more aggressively than I felt I could on my XC bike, and with less weight than my FR bike. I'm using far more susp. travel than on my 4" XC NRS (medium). When riding it seems I can soak a bigger hit on my old NRS than my new ML without nearly bottoming out the shock.

    I can hit a nice easy 2 footer at speed on the NRS (which also has a 6.5x1.5 shock) and have my travel o-ring still indicate about 1/4 of the shock stroke unused. In contrast, same hit, same speed on the ML pushes the O-ring completely off the shock shaft. Mind you this is on my ML with sag correctly set at about .325".

    On medium and large frames 200 lb riders aren't experiencing these issues and they're running less than their body weight in shock psi. I'm under that weight on a small, running well over my body weight and still squashing the snot outta the shock and getting more pedal bob than I care for. To me that seems off, and that it likely stems from the different leverage ratio I got with the small frame.

    As I indicated, I'll increase the shock pressure some more and see what I get. I'm not adverse to running sky-high pressures if that's what it takes. I do have some concerns about shock durability at that elevated pressure. My thinking is that an under stressed seal is less likely to fail under load than a highly stressed one.
    Reducing the Air Canister volume on a Fox is easy... Actually I read about it on a thread from Tscheezy.

    Simply deflate the shock. Pull off the air canister down the shaft. You don't need to remove the shock from the bike. Now pour in a few cc's of either synthetic gear oil, M-Prep grease or some medium lubricant.

    The space taken by the oil, will reduce the size of the air chamber, giving more progressivity.

    Also, I agree with others, maybe you need more air pressure and talk back to Push. Get on the phone with them and explain your problem. I'm almost positive you can get it tuned where you want and they'll do it for free now you have the shock tuned with them.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    Good points. I've pretty well prioritized my solutions;
    1. - Explore further tuning options with my shock by adding more pressure or decreasing air volume by adding grease to the air sleeve innards (or both).
    2. - Have the shock rebuilt with an AVA canister (if possible)
    3. - Try other shock options like the Swinger 4-way.
    4. - Consider a new frame from another maker with different geometry in a medium size.
    I thought that I read some time ago that Push offers to rebuild RP3 with a DHXair canister to have a bigger air volume so that you could run your shock at a lower pressure. I'm no engineer, but I don't see how reducing the air volume (solution #1) will decrease the air pressure. That seems counterintuitive to me. Somebody with more knowledge should probably chime in anyway.

    FWIW, I'm 5'7" and 160 before suiting up, and put about 190-200# in the RP3 on a small ML.
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  31. #31
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    You're running about 125% of your weight in the shock. 160 x 1.25 = 200psi Thats good to know.

    Using the same factor indicates 243 psi for me. I'm running 240 now. I expect that the psi to rider weight ratio isn't linear, but progressive and may mean that 243 psi is still to low for me. I'll know more in about 90 min when I get home to play with it.

    I'm hoping 20 or 30 psi makes all the difference. If not Push is getting a call to discuss what my options are. This is interesting to a point, but a bit aggravating if I end up having to re-engineer a new bike. I already had to make mods to my Avid Juicy 7's to get them to quit gobbling like turkeys.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    You're running about 125% of your weight in the shock. 160 x 1.25 = 200psi Thats good to know.

    Using the same factor indicates 243 psi for me. I'm running 240 now. I expect that the psi to rider weight ratio isn't linear, but progressive and may mean that 243 psi is still to low for me. I'll know more in about 90 min when I get home to play with it.

    I'm hoping 20 or 30 psi makes all the difference. If not Push is getting a call to discuss what my options are. This is interesting to a point, but a bit aggravating if I end up having to re-engineer a new bike. I already had to make mods to my Avid Juicy 7's to get them to quit gobbling like turkeys.
    My riding weight is probably around 170 all loaded up, so 195/170 = 115%. Let us know how your ride goes. You should also contact Sungchang who also has a small ML and weighs a good 200 to get his feedback.
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg
    My riding weight is probably around 170 all loaded up, so 195/170 = 115%. Let us know how your ride goes. You should also contact Sungchang who also has a small ML and weighs a good 200 to get his feedback.
    Actually I'm around 250 lbs right now (gained 10 lbs over last few months ). I have 06 small ML with RP23, so not sure how it compares with RP3. But I have my RP23 set at 240 psi and at #2 propedal setting. And I am not noticing the issue that you are running into. My o-ring shows still good 1/4 not being used up yet. At the same time, I have not taken my ML to the more technical trails. Occassional 1-1.5 feet drops have not been a problem.

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    That's encouraging. I think I just need to fart around with tuning it some more. I'm also there's differences in our riding styles too. Some guys seem to float over stuff while others just plow through. I'm more of a plow-boy I guess.

    One thing not yet mentioned, is the accuracy of my shock pump reading. I going to try using another to see if I get a different reading or it could also be that I'm losing more than the usual amount upon disconnect. What I believe is 240 psi might not be...

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    That's encouraging. I think I just need to fart around with tuning it some more. I'm also there's differences in our riding styles too. Some guys seem to float over stuff while others just plow through. I'm more of a plow-boy I guess.

    One thing not yet mentioned, is the accuracy of my shock pump reading. I going to try using another to see if I get a different reading or it could also be that I'm losing more than the usual amount upon disconnect. What I believe is 240 psi might not be...
    Yeah I tend to be easier on my equipment as I haven't had any failures, but at the same time, I don't go superlight components either. I used to ride Racer-X with 80mm, so I had learned to be more selective in my lines than normal FS riders.

    As for the shock pump, I am using the Fox shox pump and the readings seem to be fairly accurate. One of my friend had a different brand that consistently showed 10 more PSI than Fox, so that might be something to look into as well. You might actually be at 230 psi while you are thinking that it is at 240. Well good luck.

  36. #36
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    *UPDATE*

    I got home and broke out another shock pump. This one yet unused as it came with another bike. The pressure reading was what I was getting with the other pump, so the possibility of erroneous pump reading didn't seem to be true.

    So I threw another 30 psi at it (now 270psi) and hit a few urban obstacles nearby (stairs, small retaining wall drops to flat, a landscaping approximation of a rock garden). Still using quite a bit of travel but not as much as before. I had about a quarter inch of shock travel left.

    Ten more psi went in (now 280) and it's better yet. Same obstacles now leave perhaps 3/8" remaining travel. Not bad seeing as that last bit is awfully progressive.

    I then bled the shock completely and following Warp's advice added a pretty healthy glob of PrepM inside the air sleeve. Went back to the 280psi setting, checked the sag and took the same test loop. I can't honestly say there's a measurable difference. The indicated travel is exactly the same and the ol' butt dyno can't tell anything changed after altering the shock's air volume.

    Net result: It's better. Though I think other options can be explored using Push Industries' experience. I think I'm running the risk of obsessing about it rather than just enjoying the bike.

    Just for kicks and to check it out, I've got a test ride on a medium Yeti 575 after work tomorrow through my LBS. I'd like to keep it for a day and ride the two bikes back-to-to back over the same sections of trail. I fully expect to still like the ML better and I hope the 575 just puts the whole thing into perspective. Whatever, I find I'll have a ride report.

  37. #37
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    Hey Dangeruss, what's your inseam? I'm 5'7" with a 31" inseam and I ride a medium Motolite an it fits just right.
    "'I refuse to prove that I exist,' says god, 'for proof denies faith and without faith I am nothing'"

    - Douglas Adams: "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"

  38. #38
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    Dangerouss, I have the same question as Cyclopod, however I am 5'7 with 30" inseam. I am ridding a Medium ML and it works well for me.

  39. #39
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    30" inseam here as well. My physiology is admittedly a bit funky. My wife who is shorter than I, prefers a taller seat height than I can ride. I'll toss a leg over a medium ML (if available) and see if that works any better for me at this time. I'm fairly sure my LBS would do a swap deal that would be cheaper than a new frame.

  40. #40
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    My two cents

    Danger,
    I think you will love the medium 575. I had one before I got my Motolite and the the thing rocked! If it wasn't for my knees giving me problems I would still have the bike right now. I liked the Yeti's falling rate suspension. I think you will dig it. The Yeti and the Motolite are in the same class.
    I've went on record before on saying that the small Motolite is nowhere near as good as the medium and large Motolite. I've tested but extensively and that small difference in the shock makes a huge difference on the trail.
    Push - if you don't like the results of the shock send it back to them! They will fine tune it for you at no charge. I sent the RP3 back on my Switchblade back two times, now it is perfect.

    Chris

  41. #41
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    Thanks Chris. I'll have a better idea of how the two compare after tomorrow. The Small ML as is, even if I didn't do anything else to it, is a fine bike. I've read all these glowing reports about the ML and after dropping 4K on a nice build, it's like " Hey, I wanted some of that! Mine sure as hell doesn't act like what people are writing about"

    I'm certain I'll get it sorted out either by further tuning or changing frame sizes or if none of that works, opting for another builder. There's lots of 5 inch options, and as badly as I want the ML to work out - it just may be a failed relationship.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    Thanks Chris. I'll have a better idea of how the two compare after tomorrow. The Small ML as is, even if I didn't do anything else to it, is a fine bike. I've read all these glowing reports about the ML and after dropping 4K on a nice build, it's like " Hey, I wanted some of that! Mine sure as hell doesn't act like what people are writing about"

    I'm certain I'll get it sorted out either by further tuning or changing frame sizes or if none of that works, opting for another builder. There's lots of 5 inch options, and as badly as I want the ML to work out - it just may be a failed relationship.
    there is a vast array of 5 inch steeds out there. At least you are trying lal avenues, noone can accuse you of not trying to sort the issue. I would love to be in a position where I could try out and demo frames etc, no go where ever I have been. You fellas are lucky campers in the US of A really.
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  43. #43
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    I'm 5'8" with 30" inseam. I was involved in a purchase of 3 ML frames (2 smalls and 1 medium), and so I had the chance to test out both the small and medium frames back to back. Although I had no problems with both sizes as far as fit goes and riding, the small just seem to fit me better. I was coming from medium Racer-X (03 with 23" TT) with too high of standover height...I basically had no clearance. The medium ML had similar feel to it. I would have preferred the longer shock body in the medium, but small with RP23 seem to work well.

    There are lots of great bikes out there, so look forward to hearing back on your impression on the 575. And best of luck in finding the right bike.

  44. #44
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    Whafe - you're right. I am fortunate to have a great dealer nearby. The handle both Titus and Yeti as well as Santa Cruz, Litespeed and Cannondale. They actually got a bit of press in MBA as one of the nation's best bike shops (Mad Duck Adventure Sports).

    Since you're into "blingy" bikes, have you seen the Litespeed NIOTA frame yet?
    http://www.litespeed.com/bikes/2006/...spx?bk=niotati All Ti - rear triangle too. The picture does nothing to capture the titianium sex appeal I'm sure your enjoying with your Exogrid. I saw one on the trail a few weeks ago and it's gorgeous.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    Whafe - you're right. I am fortunate to have a great dealer nearby. The handle both Titus and Yeti as well as Santa Cruz, Litespeed and Cannondale. They actually got a bit of press in MBA as one of the nation's best bike shops (Mad Duck Adventure Sports).

    Since you're into "blingy" bikes, have you seen the Litespeed NIOTA frame yet?
    http://www.litespeed.com/bikes/2006/...spx?bk=niotati All Ti - rear triangle too. The picture does nothing to capture the titianium sex appeal I'm sure your enjoying with your Exogrid. I saw one on the trail a few weeks ago and it's gorgeous.
    That is agreat frame assortment for an LBS. Covers the spectrum well. Must look that one up.... Yes have seen that Litespeed frame, very sexy..... mmmm Happy at present. Wish they made some 6 inch travel Ti frames, somehting more rough AM moving into the FR arena in Ti...........

    So dangeruss, are you going to join the Titus clan in Fruita / Moab in Oct / Nov. Check out the threads, be keen to get your name down. We haev 9 confimred more or less for the end Oct, start Nov......Definites for Fruita/Moab Titus Trip

    Was looking at the Yeti site last night, the video footage through there manufacturing procedures is great. A real good site..
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    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  46. #46
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    My old riding buddy bought a Litespeed Ti Sewanee and loved it. Plus, the Ti finish looked amazing.

    I just talked to him the other day and apparently he sold the frame because in his words it felt like a noodle. Ti is a great material being both light and strong, but it is not as stiff as aluminum or carbon.

  47. #47
    thats right living legend
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    Idea! I've got an idea!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by dulyebr
    My old riding buddy bought a Litespeed Ti Sewanee and loved it. Plus, the Ti finish looked amazing.

    I just talked to him the other day and apparently he sold the frame because in his words it felt like a noodle. Ti is a great material being both light and strong, but it is not as stiff as aluminum or carbon.

    Why don't we somehow lace some carbon fibre "into" the titanium! Than you get a stiff lite ti frame....I'M A GENIUS!!!!

    Now how much should we charge?????
    Last edited by blackagness; 08-09-2006 at 07:58 AM.

  48. #48
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    No sir on the Moab / Fruita weekend. I've got a 5 day tour booked through Western Spirit to do St. George / Gooseberry / Zion the week before the Titus gathering. That's on the heels of a Vegas trip, so I'm certain to be out of both vacation time and money at that time.

  49. #49
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    " I'M A GENIOUS" <--- Genius there "genious". As for what to charge... my vote goes for $99.99, with a lifetime warranty and free replacement every two years.

  50. #50
    thats right living legend
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    " I'M A GENIOUS" <--- Genius there "genious". As for what to charge... my vote goes for $99.99, with a lifetime warranty and free replacement every two years.

    If your going to start correcting my spelling, you better pull up a chair, cause it'll take you ALLLLL DAY!

    Of course I could start calling my mom before every post. She's a terrific speller. But probably not as good as you...
    Last edited by blackagness; 08-09-2006 at 08:02 AM.

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