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  1. #1
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    Hey Whafe - crossposted from the Yeti forum.

    Hey Whafe!

    Funny that you're sniffing around 575, me too. I'm also a somewhat new MotoLite owner (5 months), and while I really wanted to like the ML, I'm pretty disappointed with a few things and I'm taking a serious look at a frame swap. Because of Titus' b-i-g jump in frame size between Small and Medium frames, I opted for a Small (I'm 5'7", stout build 195lbs). What I didn't realize prior to purchase about the ML small, was the difference in shock stroke length. While Titus clams the same suspension performance for all sizes, my results don't agree. I blow through most if not all of the shock travel on "nothing" trails in 5" mode. I end up in the 4" mode, ProPedal on firm (Pushed shock BTW) and damn near 240 lbs of pressure in the rear shock! I've got a Vegas / St. George / Gooseberry trip planned in October and I'm thinking I won't be very happy on the ML in it's present state.

    What I wanted was a 5" trailbike with a compliant, somewhat active, suspension. What I ended up with is a 4" bike that I worry about every time I take a ~2 foot drop. I've got other complaints but they're component related (Avid Juicy 7's). Over all, the Titus hasn't proven to be the bike I was hoping for.

    I'm trying to round up a Medium 575 test ride this week. You're right, the White / Raw frame is a looker! So if the test ride suits my style and body, I'll probably be defecting from the Titus camp.

    Am I missing something vital here? Any other mini-clydes having issues on ML. I'd even try another shock like the DHX but it's not available in the size required by the small frame(6.25 x 1.5) Any recommedations? Anyone... Bueller... anyone?

  2. #2
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    Hey Whafe!

    Funny that you're sniffing around 575, me too. I'm also a somewhat new MotoLite owner (5 months), and while I really wanted to like the ML, I'm pretty disappointed with a few things and I'm taking a serious look at a frame swap. Because of Titus' b-i-g jump in frame size between Small and Medium frames, I opted for a Small (I'm 5'7", stout build 195lbs). What I didn't realize prior to purchase about the ML small, was the difference in shock stroke length. While Titus clams the same suspension performance for all sizes, my results don't agree. I blow through most if not all of the shock travel on "nothing" trails in 5" mode. I end up in the 4" mode, ProPedal on firm (Pushed shock BTW) and damn near 240 lbs of pressure in the rear shock! I've got a Vegas / St. George / Gooseberry trip planned in October and I'm thinking I won't be very happy on the ML in it's present state.

    What I wanted was a 5" trailbike with a compliant, somewhat active, suspension. What I ended up with is a 4" bike that I worry about every time I take a ~2 foot drop. I've got other complaints but they're component related (Avid Juicy 7's). Over all, the Titus hasn't proven to be the bike I was hoping for.

    I'm trying to round up a Medium 575 test ride this week. You're right, the White / Raw frame is a looker! So if the test ride suits my style and body, I'll probably be defecting from the Titus camp.

    Am I missing something vital here? Any other mini-clydes having issues on ML. I'd even try another shock like the DHX but it's not available in the size required by the small frame(6.25 x 1.5) Any recommedations? Anyone... Bueller... anyone?
    Push Industries?

    Their latest tunes include controlling bottom out with both damping and a rubber bumper. Try also reducing the size of the air chamber of the shock by using more Fox Float Fliud or even grease. This will reduce the size of the chamber and will make the air shock more progressive.

    There's one more option but it's way expensive... the Cane Creek Double Barrel that can be made in your size (I think) and Ohlins... I mean, Cane Creek tunes it to your specs.

    I hope you can "keep it in the family". I think Push can sort it out for you.
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  3. #3
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    I just got the shock back from Push Industries about 10 days ago so I'm assuming it's done up with their latest tricks. It's an RP3 (06) model from early this year after the whole bad seals mess.

    I'm not quite sure what you're referring to by "adding Fox Float Fluid". Is there a tech. document on Fox's website that you could point me to. I really would like to retain the ML and a fix is undoubtedly going to be cheaper than a new frame and the attendant hassle of selling the ML.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    I just got the shock back from Push Industries about 10 days ago so I'm assuming it's done up with their latest tricks. It's an RP3 (06) model from early this year after the whole bad seals mess.

    I'm not quite sure what you're referring to by "adding Fox Float Fluid". Is there a tech. document on Fox's website that you could point me to. I really would like to retain the ML and a fix is undoubtedly going to be cheaper than a new frame and the attendant hassle of selling the ML.
    Basically, removing the shock sleeve and putting some grease in will decrease the shock volume and make it more progressive.

    Another option could be to replace the current sleeve with a AVA one, (I'm not totally sure if there's one that fits your shock). If so, it'd let you "fine tuning" how progressive the should would be.

  5. #5
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss

    What I wanted was a 5" trailbike with a compliant, somewhat active, suspension. What I ended up with is a 4" bike that I worry about every time I take a ~2 foot drop. Am I missing something vital here? Any other mini-clydes having issues on ML. I'd even try another shock like the DHX but it's not available in the size required by the small frame(6.25 x 1.5) Any recommedations? Anyone... Bueller... anyone?
    Hey Dangeruss,
    Any reason in particular you are worried about the frame? I'm 170+ gear and I'm pretty impressed with what my motolite has withstood so far. I'm not going into details, but I don't think there's much for you to worry about in terms of durability.

    Have you considered trying a coil shock? The motolite can take one, and with it's linear rate, it would make a huge difference in feel. The small air shock ramps up quickly due to it's small air spring, but a coil would feel smooth and plush throughout it's travel.

  6. #6
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    You don't fit the profile...

    for the average "small" person. I would not blame Titus for something they couldn't control, which is your genetic disposition. The stock small ML was NOT designed to accomodate that weight given the higher leverage design.

    You definately have the wrong bike for your weight. This is common knowledge around here so I don't know how you missed it??

    You should be looking at custom build.

    I would hurry because you don't what to ride Gooseberry etc with a bike that doesnt' work for you.

    Bummer dude.

    Regards,

    EndUser
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  7. #7
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    I've considered a coil, but I've not had much success finding a 6.5 eye-to-eye coil of decent spec. Coils seem to be falling out of favor these days. Any suggestions?

  8. #8
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    I don't believe I was blaming Titus for much if anything. Just stating my issues, looking for suggestions or solutions including alternate framemakers. I've had no problems with other medium frames but they all measure 17 - 7.5" or so. Titus' medium is 18.5 and was just too big for me when I demo'd it.

    Obviously I missed those nuggets of info. It would have been nice to find that sort of stuff on the Titus site though, rather than be required to search for frame leverage ratio differences I was unaware of on a user's forum.

    If I elect to get a diff. frame, I'm sure I'll have no problem finding a buyer for my ML.

  9. #9
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    i have yet to see a weight restriction on the Titus site etc, point me there if indeed it is please.

    And there was not one muttering from Dangerruss that he was blaming Titus or anyone for that matter....

    My Push'd RP23 just arrived form Bob in the States today, will see it when i get home. Wonder if that would make any difference..... As FM says, hearign soem good reports on the DHX Coil though, could be the way to go......

    Let us know...
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  10. #10
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    Dangeruss,

    AFAIK, the S and XS ML use a 6.5x1.5 rather than 6.25x1.5. You could get a coil shock with those measurements from Romic (actually a Twin Tube Coil), and even you could order it custom tuned to your weight, ML suspension design and kind of riding that you use to do.

    Take a look at Romic Twin Tube Coil shock

    By the way, when I was buying my ML I was tempted to get a small (I'm between sizes) and I was concerned about how good the suspension could work for I guy weighting 175 lb (all gear on), just like myself. Looking for information about how good the rear suspension could work, I found out that Titus tested a ML prototype with small frame specifications (just a longer TT) that was ridden by a 185 lb rider, and it performed well. However, it's worth to mention that they were using 250psi, so I'm just wondering if you are getting the right sag with 240 psi. Obviously, it's quite a high pressure in the rear shock, but then again, according to Fox you could use up to 300 psi on those shocks.

    Edit 1: Deleted a repeated sentence.
    Last edited by Tavinho; 08-08-2006 at 08:30 AM.

  11. #11
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    Lots of great coils to be had, but not any in a 6.5x1.5 size.

    None of Manitou, Fox, RockShox, Romic, current coils are available in that size. Stratos makes one, but to me it's an unknown entity. Older Vanilla models would fit, but have no damping features. I can't find any sizing info on Cane Creeks new Double Barrel model, and it seems like overkill anyway.

    I'm trying to determine if a Manitou Swinger Air 4 way would suit. It has tunable features for progressive air rate so you can tune how it ramps up towards the bottom of the stroke. Sounds interesting. It seems to have a similar form factor to the DHX air so I expect it would fit with the correct bushings.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    Lots of great coils to be had, but not any in a 6.5x1.5 size.

    None of Manitou, Fox, RockShox, Romic, current coils are available in that size. Stratos makes one, but to me it's an unknown entity. Older Vanilla models would fit, but have no damping features. I can't find any sizing info on Cane Creeks new Double Barrel model, and it seems like overkill anyway.

    I'm trying to determine if a Manitou Swinger Air 4 way would suit. It has tunable features for progressive air rate so you can tune how it ramps up towards the bottom of the stroke. Sounds interesting. It seems to have a similar form factor to the DHX air so I expect it would fit with the correct bushings.
    Huh? According to Romic website, 6.5x1.5 is a standard size...
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  13. #13
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    Thanks, I'll look at that shock. Yeah, you're correct on the shock dims. It was late when I was trying to remember the dimensions.

    Although, I'm measuring a "proper" .325" of static sag with 240psi, perhaps I'm just not using sufficent air pressure in the shock as you suggest. I didn't think you could go that high. Sounds like a lot! I'll boost it up and report my findings. A shot of air would be on helluva cheap fix! I won't get to it until tonight, but I'll play around with it.

  14. #14
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    Mabye???

    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    Thanks, I'll look at that shock. Yeah, you're correct on the shock dims. It was late when I was trying to remember the dimensions.

    Although, I'm measuring a "proper" .325" of static sag with 240psi, perhaps I'm just not using sufficent air pressure in the shock as you suggest. I didn't think you could go that high. Sounds like a lot! I'll boost it up and report my findings. A shot of air would be on helluva cheap fix! I won't get to it until tonight, but I'll play around with it.

    Ya know... that might just work, be sure to let us know...Good luck!

  15. #15
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    Yeah... I'm sure to feel a bit of a fool if that sorts it out. I'll be pleased if that all it took though.

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    Did you buy that one on Ebay? Have you ridden it yet?

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    Just one more question: Even when this could sound like a stupid one, when you say that your shock is already Push'd, was it Push'd for you? I mean, for your current weight, based on ML Small frame and you riding style? If so, you could give a call to Darren @ Push Industries because something could be wrong with shock valving and they'll take care of it; if not, then it could be the problem itself (a shock tuned for totally different conditions).

    Just my 2 cents

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    Did you buy that one on Ebay? Have you ridden it yet?
    Whom are you asking?

  19. #19
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    You...
    http://cgi.ebay.com/Romic-D-Shock-6-...QQcmdZViewItem

    Winning bidder: tavinhocr05 <--- not you?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    You...
    http://cgi.ebay.com/Romic-D-Shock-6-...QQcmdZViewItem

    Winning bidder: tavinhocr05 <--- not you?
    Yeap, that's me! However, that's for a friend of mine who asked me to bid in his behalf. It's going to a Specialized Stumpjumper FSR and he'll try it (probably) by the next weekend.

    My ML is a M size and uses a 7 7/8 x 2 shock.

  21. #21
    "Its All Good"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    Yeah... I'm sure to feel a bit of a fool if that sorts it out. I'll be pleased if that all it took though.
    thats nothing dude, i have looked way dumber many times, and I am sure I will many times in the future too....

    Lets hope it sorts it.

    I am off home to drool over the Push'd RP23, just for me

    Best of Luck Dangeruss....
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  22. #22
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    I supplied Push Ind. with frame info, my weight, riding style, what pressure I was running and so on. When it came back it seemed even softer, which I sort of expected. (plusher, yet more progressive) I'm still blowing through what I think is too much travel on minor trail features. I live in Texas, so admittedly my local trails are nothing like N.E. or CO. rock gardens or filled with big hits. We have them, but they're not the norm. I expected the ML to be loafing on my trails rather than using so much travel.

    To contrast - I also have a Giant NRS 1 (4") and an AC1 (5.5") -both medium frames. I'm running less shock preload (air / coil) and using much less of a percentage of travel on those bikes on the same trails. I can take 3 footers on the NRS and 4foot+ to flat with the AC and not bottom either shock. Not an apple-to-apple comparo, but I would damn well expect a contemporary 5-inch trailbike to handle the same stuff better than my 4 year old XC rig. I can hop on my wife's medium Prophet and even without increasing the air pressure, use less travel.

    I'm unsure what happens inside an air shock running nearly 300psi when it bottoms out. I don't want to be 45 minutes into an Western Spirit biking vacation and have my shock go ka-friggin-boom on the first sizable drop I take.

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    Gotcha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    I supplied Push Ind. with frame info, my weight, riding style, what pressure I was running and so on. When it came back it seemed even softer, which I sort of expected. (plusher, yet more progressive) I'm still blowing through what I think is too much travel on minor trail features. I live in Texas, so admittedly my local trails are nothing like N.E. or CO. rock gardens or filled with big hits. We have them, but they're not the norm. I expected the ML to be loafing on my trails rather than using so much travel.

    To contrast - I also have a Giant NRS 1 (4") and an AC1 (5.5") -both medium frames. I'm running less shock preload (air / coil) and using much less of a percentage of travel on those bikes on the same trails. I can take 3 footers on the NRS and 4foot+ to flat with the AC and not bottom either shock. Not an apple-to-apple comparo, but I would damn well expect a contemporary 5-inch trailbike to handle the same stuff better than my 4 year old XC rig. I can hop on my wife's medium Prophet and even without increasing the air pressure, use less travel.

    I'm unsure what happens inside an air shock running nearly 300psi when it bottoms out. I don't want to be 45 minutes into an Western Spirit biking vacation and have my shock go ka-friggin-boom on the first sizable drop I take.
    It shouldn't happen anything, because it's between the range (50psi-300psi) recommended by Mfgr (I pretty much sure that range is narrower than shock could manage under extreme conditions, but manufactures always try to play safe, right?). However, if 270psi or so doesn't fix the problem, I'd definitely give Push Ind. a call and ask them to take a look at it.

    Good Luck
    Last edited by Tavinho; 08-08-2006 at 09:33 AM.

  25. #25
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    I thought the ML has a progressive, rising rate suspension and the 575 has a progressive, falling rate suspension (at least early in the stroke)?

    Will a 575 fix his issues?

    A coil has a linear spring rate behavior. Sounds like you need a more progressive spring rate like air shocks produce. Not sure going to a coil will help you either.
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  26. #26
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    Good points. I've pretty well prioritized my solutions;
    1. - Explore further tuning options with my shock by adding more pressure or decreasing air volume by adding grease to the air sleeve innards (or both).
    2. - Have the shock rebuilt with an AVA canister (if possible)
    3. - Try other shock options like the Swinger 4-way.
    4. - Consider a new frame from another maker with different geometry in a medium size.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    I thought the ML has a progressive, rising rate suspension and the 575 has a progressive, falling rate suspension (at least early in the stroke)?

    Will a 575 fix his issues?

    A coil has a linear spring rate behavior. Sounds like you need a more progressive spring rate like air shocks produce. Not sure going to a coil will help you either.
    Tscheezy, the smaller motolites use a smaller (6.5x1.5?) shock. I think D's complaints revolve around the performance of the shorter stroke shock under his weight, requiring him to run higher than ideal pressures.

    FWIW, I think Titus's design here makes sense here, as somebody D's height but weighing 100lbs would probably not be happy with an Rp3 at 90psi.

    But, maybe I am wrong! D's not happy with his motolite but we're not sure exaclty why. Is it the geometry/fit, or the suspension performance? besides having to run higher pressures, what is it about the suspension that isn't working?

  28. #28
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    My disappointment stems from purchasing the ML to ride more aggressively than I felt I could on my XC bike, and with less weight than my FR bike. I'm using far more susp. travel than on my 4" XC NRS (medium). When riding it seems I can soak a bigger hit on my old NRS than my new ML without nearly bottoming out the shock.

    I can hit a nice easy 2 footer at speed on the NRS (which also has a 6.5x1.5 shock) and have my travel o-ring still indicate about 1/4 of the shock stroke unused. In contrast, same hit, same speed on the ML pushes the O-ring completely off the shock shaft. Mind you this is on my ML with sag correctly set at about .325".

    On medium and large frames 200 lb riders aren't experiencing these issues and they're running less than their body weight in shock psi. I'm under that weight on a small, running well over my body weight and still squashing the snot outta the shock and getting more pedal bob than I care for. To me that seems off, and that it likely stems from the different leverage ratio I got with the small frame.

    As I indicated, I'll increase the shock pressure some more and see what I get. I'm not adverse to running sky-high pressures if that's what it takes. I do have some concerns about shock durability at that elevated pressure. My thinking is that an under stressed seal is less likely to fail under load than a highly stressed one.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    My disappointment stems from purchasing the ML to ride more aggressively than I felt I could on my XC bike, and with less weight than my FR bike. I'm using far more susp. travel than on my 4" XC NRS (medium). When riding it seems I can soak a bigger hit on my old NRS than my new ML without nearly bottoming out the shock.

    I can hit a nice easy 2 footer at speed on the NRS (which also has a 6.5x1.5 shock) and have my travel o-ring still indicate about 1/4 of the shock stroke unused. In contrast, same hit, same speed on the ML pushes the O-ring completely off the shock shaft. Mind you this is on my ML with sag correctly set at about .325".

    On medium and large frames 200 lb riders aren't experiencing these issues and they're running less than their body weight in shock psi. I'm under that weight on a small, running well over my body weight and still squashing the snot outta the shock and getting more pedal bob than I care for. To me that seems off, and that it likely stems from the different leverage ratio I got with the small frame.

    As I indicated, I'll increase the shock pressure some more and see what I get. I'm not adverse to running sky-high pressures if that's what it takes. I do have some concerns about shock durability at that elevated pressure. My thinking is that an under stressed seal is less likely to fail under load than a highly stressed one.
    Reducing the Air Canister volume on a Fox is easy... Actually I read about it on a thread from Tscheezy.

    Simply deflate the shock. Pull off the air canister down the shaft. You don't need to remove the shock from the bike. Now pour in a few cc's of either synthetic gear oil, M-Prep grease or some medium lubricant.

    The space taken by the oil, will reduce the size of the air chamber, giving more progressivity.

    Also, I agree with others, maybe you need more air pressure and talk back to Push. Get on the phone with them and explain your problem. I'm almost positive you can get it tuned where you want and they'll do it for free now you have the shock tuned with them.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    Good points. I've pretty well prioritized my solutions;
    1. - Explore further tuning options with my shock by adding more pressure or decreasing air volume by adding grease to the air sleeve innards (or both).
    2. - Have the shock rebuilt with an AVA canister (if possible)
    3. - Try other shock options like the Swinger 4-way.
    4. - Consider a new frame from another maker with different geometry in a medium size.
    I thought that I read some time ago that Push offers to rebuild RP3 with a DHXair canister to have a bigger air volume so that you could run your shock at a lower pressure. I'm no engineer, but I don't see how reducing the air volume (solution #1) will decrease the air pressure. That seems counterintuitive to me. Somebody with more knowledge should probably chime in anyway.

    FWIW, I'm 5'7" and 160 before suiting up, and put about 190-200# in the RP3 on a small ML.
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  31. #31
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    You're running about 125% of your weight in the shock. 160 x 1.25 = 200psi Thats good to know.

    Using the same factor indicates 243 psi for me. I'm running 240 now. I expect that the psi to rider weight ratio isn't linear, but progressive and may mean that 243 psi is still to low for me. I'll know more in about 90 min when I get home to play with it.

    I'm hoping 20 or 30 psi makes all the difference. If not Push is getting a call to discuss what my options are. This is interesting to a point, but a bit aggravating if I end up having to re-engineer a new bike. I already had to make mods to my Avid Juicy 7's to get them to quit gobbling like turkeys.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    You're running about 125% of your weight in the shock. 160 x 1.25 = 200psi Thats good to know.

    Using the same factor indicates 243 psi for me. I'm running 240 now. I expect that the psi to rider weight ratio isn't linear, but progressive and may mean that 243 psi is still to low for me. I'll know more in about 90 min when I get home to play with it.

    I'm hoping 20 or 30 psi makes all the difference. If not Push is getting a call to discuss what my options are. This is interesting to a point, but a bit aggravating if I end up having to re-engineer a new bike. I already had to make mods to my Avid Juicy 7's to get them to quit gobbling like turkeys.
    My riding weight is probably around 170 all loaded up, so 195/170 = 115%. Let us know how your ride goes. You should also contact Sungchang who also has a small ML and weighs a good 200 to get his feedback.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg
    My riding weight is probably around 170 all loaded up, so 195/170 = 115%. Let us know how your ride goes. You should also contact Sungchang who also has a small ML and weighs a good 200 to get his feedback.
    Actually I'm around 250 lbs right now (gained 10 lbs over last few months ). I have 06 small ML with RP23, so not sure how it compares with RP3. But I have my RP23 set at 240 psi and at #2 propedal setting. And I am not noticing the issue that you are running into. My o-ring shows still good 1/4 not being used up yet. At the same time, I have not taken my ML to the more technical trails. Occassional 1-1.5 feet drops have not been a problem.

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    That's encouraging. I think I just need to fart around with tuning it some more. I'm also there's differences in our riding styles too. Some guys seem to float over stuff while others just plow through. I'm more of a plow-boy I guess.

    One thing not yet mentioned, is the accuracy of my shock pump reading. I going to try using another to see if I get a different reading or it could also be that I'm losing more than the usual amount upon disconnect. What I believe is 240 psi might not be...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    That's encouraging. I think I just need to fart around with tuning it some more. I'm also there's differences in our riding styles too. Some guys seem to float over stuff while others just plow through. I'm more of a plow-boy I guess.

    One thing not yet mentioned, is the accuracy of my shock pump reading. I going to try using another to see if I get a different reading or it could also be that I'm losing more than the usual amount upon disconnect. What I believe is 240 psi might not be...
    Yeah I tend to be easier on my equipment as I haven't had any failures, but at the same time, I don't go superlight components either. I used to ride Racer-X with 80mm, so I had learned to be more selective in my lines than normal FS riders.

    As for the shock pump, I am using the Fox shox pump and the readings seem to be fairly accurate. One of my friend had a different brand that consistently showed 10 more PSI than Fox, so that might be something to look into as well. You might actually be at 230 psi while you are thinking that it is at 240. Well good luck.

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    *UPDATE*

    I got home and broke out another shock pump. This one yet unused as it came with another bike. The pressure reading was what I was getting with the other pump, so the possibility of erroneous pump reading didn't seem to be true.

    So I threw another 30 psi at it (now 270psi) and hit a few urban obstacles nearby (stairs, small retaining wall drops to flat, a landscaping approximation of a rock garden). Still using quite a bit of travel but not as much as before. I had about a quarter inch of shock travel left.

    Ten more psi went in (now 280) and it's better yet. Same obstacles now leave perhaps 3/8" remaining travel. Not bad seeing as that last bit is awfully progressive.

    I then bled the shock completely and following Warp's advice added a pretty healthy glob of PrepM inside the air sleeve. Went back to the 280psi setting, checked the sag and took the same test loop. I can't honestly say there's a measurable difference. The indicated travel is exactly the same and the ol' butt dyno can't tell anything changed after altering the shock's air volume.

    Net result: It's better. Though I think other options can be explored using Push Industries' experience. I think I'm running the risk of obsessing about it rather than just enjoying the bike.

    Just for kicks and to check it out, I've got a test ride on a medium Yeti 575 after work tomorrow through my LBS. I'd like to keep it for a day and ride the two bikes back-to-to back over the same sections of trail. I fully expect to still like the ML better and I hope the 575 just puts the whole thing into perspective. Whatever, I find I'll have a ride report.

  37. #37
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    Hey Dangeruss, what's your inseam? I'm 5'7" with a 31" inseam and I ride a medium Motolite an it fits just right.
    "'I refuse to prove that I exist,' says god, 'for proof denies faith and without faith I am nothing'"

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  38. #38
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    Dangerouss, I have the same question as Cyclopod, however I am 5'7 with 30" inseam. I am ridding a Medium ML and it works well for me.

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    30" inseam here as well. My physiology is admittedly a bit funky. My wife who is shorter than I, prefers a taller seat height than I can ride. I'll toss a leg over a medium ML (if available) and see if that works any better for me at this time. I'm fairly sure my LBS would do a swap deal that would be cheaper than a new frame.

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    My two cents

    Danger,
    I think you will love the medium 575. I had one before I got my Motolite and the the thing rocked! If it wasn't for my knees giving me problems I would still have the bike right now. I liked the Yeti's falling rate suspension. I think you will dig it. The Yeti and the Motolite are in the same class.
    I've went on record before on saying that the small Motolite is nowhere near as good as the medium and large Motolite. I've tested but extensively and that small difference in the shock makes a huge difference on the trail.
    Push - if you don't like the results of the shock send it back to them! They will fine tune it for you at no charge. I sent the RP3 back on my Switchblade back two times, now it is perfect.

    Chris

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    Thanks Chris. I'll have a better idea of how the two compare after tomorrow. The Small ML as is, even if I didn't do anything else to it, is a fine bike. I've read all these glowing reports about the ML and after dropping 4K on a nice build, it's like " Hey, I wanted some of that! Mine sure as hell doesn't act like what people are writing about"

    I'm certain I'll get it sorted out either by further tuning or changing frame sizes or if none of that works, opting for another builder. There's lots of 5 inch options, and as badly as I want the ML to work out - it just may be a failed relationship.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    Thanks Chris. I'll have a better idea of how the two compare after tomorrow. The Small ML as is, even if I didn't do anything else to it, is a fine bike. I've read all these glowing reports about the ML and after dropping 4K on a nice build, it's like " Hey, I wanted some of that! Mine sure as hell doesn't act like what people are writing about"

    I'm certain I'll get it sorted out either by further tuning or changing frame sizes or if none of that works, opting for another builder. There's lots of 5 inch options, and as badly as I want the ML to work out - it just may be a failed relationship.
    there is a vast array of 5 inch steeds out there. At least you are trying lal avenues, noone can accuse you of not trying to sort the issue. I would love to be in a position where I could try out and demo frames etc, no go where ever I have been. You fellas are lucky campers in the US of A really.
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  43. #43
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    I'm 5'8" with 30" inseam. I was involved in a purchase of 3 ML frames (2 smalls and 1 medium), and so I had the chance to test out both the small and medium frames back to back. Although I had no problems with both sizes as far as fit goes and riding, the small just seem to fit me better. I was coming from medium Racer-X (03 with 23" TT) with too high of standover height...I basically had no clearance. The medium ML had similar feel to it. I would have preferred the longer shock body in the medium, but small with RP23 seem to work well.

    There are lots of great bikes out there, so look forward to hearing back on your impression on the 575. And best of luck in finding the right bike.

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    Whafe - you're right. I am fortunate to have a great dealer nearby. The handle both Titus and Yeti as well as Santa Cruz, Litespeed and Cannondale. They actually got a bit of press in MBA as one of the nation's best bike shops (Mad Duck Adventure Sports).

    Since you're into "blingy" bikes, have you seen the Litespeed NIOTA frame yet?
    http://www.litespeed.com/bikes/2006/...spx?bk=niotati All Ti - rear triangle too. The picture does nothing to capture the titianium sex appeal I'm sure your enjoying with your Exogrid. I saw one on the trail a few weeks ago and it's gorgeous.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    Whafe - you're right. I am fortunate to have a great dealer nearby. The handle both Titus and Yeti as well as Santa Cruz, Litespeed and Cannondale. They actually got a bit of press in MBA as one of the nation's best bike shops (Mad Duck Adventure Sports).

    Since you're into "blingy" bikes, have you seen the Litespeed NIOTA frame yet?
    http://www.litespeed.com/bikes/2006/...spx?bk=niotati All Ti - rear triangle too. The picture does nothing to capture the titianium sex appeal I'm sure your enjoying with your Exogrid. I saw one on the trail a few weeks ago and it's gorgeous.
    That is agreat frame assortment for an LBS. Covers the spectrum well. Must look that one up.... Yes have seen that Litespeed frame, very sexy..... mmmm Happy at present. Wish they made some 6 inch travel Ti frames, somehting more rough AM moving into the FR arena in Ti...........

    So dangeruss, are you going to join the Titus clan in Fruita / Moab in Oct / Nov. Check out the threads, be keen to get your name down. We haev 9 confimred more or less for the end Oct, start Nov......Definites for Fruita/Moab Titus Trip

    Was looking at the Yeti site last night, the video footage through there manufacturing procedures is great. A real good site..
    Attached Images Attached Images
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  46. #46
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    My old riding buddy bought a Litespeed Ti Sewanee and loved it. Plus, the Ti finish looked amazing.

    I just talked to him the other day and apparently he sold the frame because in his words it felt like a noodle. Ti is a great material being both light and strong, but it is not as stiff as aluminum or carbon.

  47. #47
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    Idea! I've got an idea!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by dulyebr
    My old riding buddy bought a Litespeed Ti Sewanee and loved it. Plus, the Ti finish looked amazing.

    I just talked to him the other day and apparently he sold the frame because in his words it felt like a noodle. Ti is a great material being both light and strong, but it is not as stiff as aluminum or carbon.

    Why don't we somehow lace some carbon fibre "into" the titanium! Than you get a stiff lite ti frame....I'M A GENIUS!!!!

    Now how much should we charge?????
    Last edited by blackagness; 08-09-2006 at 07:58 AM.

  48. #48
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    No sir on the Moab / Fruita weekend. I've got a 5 day tour booked through Western Spirit to do St. George / Gooseberry / Zion the week before the Titus gathering. That's on the heels of a Vegas trip, so I'm certain to be out of both vacation time and money at that time.

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    " I'M A GENIOUS" <--- Genius there "genious". As for what to charge... my vote goes for $99.99, with a lifetime warranty and free replacement every two years.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    " I'M A GENIOUS" <--- Genius there "genious". As for what to charge... my vote goes for $99.99, with a lifetime warranty and free replacement every two years.

    If your going to start correcting my spelling, you better pull up a chair, cause it'll take you ALLLLL DAY!

    Of course I could start calling my mom before every post. She's a terrific speller. But probably not as good as you...
    Last edited by blackagness; 08-09-2006 at 08:02 AM.

  51. #51
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    Actually I couldn't care at all. I just loved the irony of misspelling the word you chose to define your superior intellegence. I'm far removed from the Grammar / Spelling gestapo mentality.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    Actually I couldn't care at all. I just loved the irony of misspelling the word you chose to define your superior intellegence. I'm far removed from the Grammar / Spelling gestapo mentality.


    Yes it "is" ironic that someone "being myself" that could come up with an idea as BRILLIANT! as the one I just presented...would than procede to mispell the word (geniUs)... HA HA HA! that does indeed give me a bit of a chuckle.

  53. #53
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    You realize that BA was having a bit of fun "reinventing" the exogrid frame?

    Anyhow, let us know how the 575 try out goes.
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg
    You realize that BA was having a bit of fun "reinventing" the exogrid frame?

    Anyhow, let us know how the 575 try out goes.


    Is originality realy "THAT" important when wieghing ones genius??? I mean "REALLY"...

    I suppose if your gonna be all technical about it...

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    Is originality realy "THAT" important when wieghing ones genius??? I mean "REALLY"...

    I suppose if your gonna be all technical about it...
    I so thought it was Geniarse..................

    BA, have you been checking out flights? best you be researching my man. We nearly have 10 names for end Oct, Beginning Nov, gets to 10, we then get real serious
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    I so thought it was Geniarse..................

    BA, have you been checking out flights? best you be researching my man. We nearly have 10 names for end Oct, Beginning Nov, gets to 10, we then get real serious


    I first have to check with my doctor, to see if he gives perscriptions for valium. I'd hate to have to start hitten the bottle, if it's a morning flyte...

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    I first have to check with my doctor, to see if he gives perscriptions for valium. I'd hate to have to start hitten the bottle, if it's a morning flyte...
    Are you having a fear of flying? we can help you for sure. I average around 280 flights annually for the past 3 years. Flying is great, quick too. Dang I can recite the safety demo.....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  58. #58
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    Back On topic - Ride Report

    So I head over to Mad Duck (my LBS) and grab their Turquoise Yeti 575 demo, throw on my pedals and put a bit of air in the shock and get the seat where I want it. Spec's pretty good; XT cranks and FD, X-9 RD, Juicy 5's, Easton carbon bar, KORE (they still around?) seatpost and seat, Fox Vanilla fork, Mavic Crossmax Enduros and Tubeless Pythons. The parking lot test seems OK, but lets hit the dirt.

    It's a quick drive over to the trailhead. I'm there in like 5 min. It's 102 degrees (great...) If I can survive the ride and remain conscious, I might even remember some details about the bike. Gear up, Camelback full, tools, cool! Let's Go!

    Off the rack it's in a pretty tall gear, and the steep climb out of the parking lot requires some torque. Weight forward, heave onto the saddle and give a mighty pedal stroke to get going and KA-POW!! The chain violently ejects itself from the front chain ring as I vault ungracefuly over the bars into a cussing heap on the asphalt. What the hell?! Get the chain back on the sprockets, check the chainring for bends, missing teeth, check FD and RD adjustments, all looks good. Huh... odd. Probably just a fluke from being bounced around on the rack, OK. I push the bike up the hill and ride off.

    All is good until the first climb. I put some torque into the chain ring and POW!, it slips like four teeth. Not enough to put me on the ground, but a definate momentum killer. More cussing. More pushing. Remount, and blow through the short downhill section. Hey! Not bad. It's soaking up stuff pretty well - the front end seems really harsh. Oh... it's locked out from the previous test-ride. Fixed. Much better now. It flow over rocks and roots well, the fit is good. Took the crappy washed out bridge section OK. I'm rather liking it so far.

    Next climb - more chain slipping and jumping. OK, decision time. Do I give up and take it back to the shop for probably a new chain, or keep riding? Screw it - keep riding. I'll just use low gears, avoid torque and spin up the climbs - slowly... That works - to a point. I make it most of the way through the 12 miles without too much drama. Oh, the chain is still facking with me, but I've not fallen yet. I'm trying to concentrate on the frame dynamics and not let the screwy drivetrain issues corrupt my evaluation.

    On the downhills and flats, I'm hitting everything hard, and the Yeti is really soaking it up nicely. Where I can climb, it's doing a nice job of getting up the hill with no wandering or spinning out, even at the low gearing. Cool. So I get to this short, steep stair-stepped burst of a climb thats more dyno move than picking your way through it. I know full well I probably should just walk it with this drivetrain diaster, but I really want to see how the Yeti handles it. Fool. Right at the tricky part, where I've got to stand and crank up one of the steps, the chain wants no part of the deal and slings itself to the bottom bracket. Things got ugly fast. Clipped in feet flailing against zero resistance, balance tossed right out the window by the change in dynamics, rolling backwards, I've no choice but to be a happless victim of gravity. Rocks, dirt, sky, Yeti frame, sky again, more rocks... more cussing. That's going to leave a mark...or twelve.

    After a bit of recomposure, I hike-a-bike up the stair-stepped climb, and resolve myself to walking the bulk of the others. Thankfully I'm almost done. Mostly downhill from here. There's a few fast chutes with some neat features and gnarly roots to hop, and the Yeti makes small work of anything I throw at it (except climbs). There's one last really eroded section leading back to the trailhead that's gotten really scary lately. What used to be a roller is now a drop leading into a narrow, rocky chute that you have to roll fast and accurately. I've been walking it with the ML since I've been bottoming the shock on it like three times per decsent. I let the Yeti fly - heck it's not my bike, and I'm bleeding already, nothing to lose... Despite my best attempts at crashing my assoff, I made it through fast and fine with the 575, so I'm pretty happy with the frame as far as I can tell. No hashness, no bottoming out. minimal pedal bob, fits well. I hate the team turquoise, but that's a non-issue.

    When I returned it, Biting my tongue, I had a few words with the service guy about the problem and arranged another test ride after it gets sorted out. If the thing climbs as well as it descends, it may be a keeper. I'm having the owner write up a frame trade-in deal and a component swap with a few necessary changes like a different FD configuration and new cables and bits. I'll know tomorrow what the $$ impact will be if I decide to go that way. He says he can have a White or Raw (brushed aluminum) 575 here a week after I say "Go". (Don't they all say that...) If I can swing it, I'll get the carbon swingarm option, unless availability become a deal breaker. I'll take the 575 demo out for another ride when it gets fixed, and make a determination then. I'm going to ride the same trail tomorrow on the ML now that I've made some changes to it and see how it goes. The saga continues.
    Last edited by Dangeruss; 08-09-2006 at 08:33 PM.

  59. #59
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    Good for you! The point is that you get a bike that you fill comfortable with.

    Obviously, I'd love to heard a comparison of both bikes (with ML's rear shock working the way it's supposed to); you know: apples to apples.

    Once the LBS gets the chain dropping problem solved, you'll able to torque it rather than spinning it and then get an idea about how stiff the frame is.

    By the way, did you give a call to Push Ind.?

  60. #60
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    Great review dangeruss. Whart a pain the bike was not performing mechanically correct. Be interesting to ride the ML with more changes int he shock. Also then to ride the 575 again with it mechanically right....

    Interesting times. Well sort the ML and you can come on the Titus group ride in Fruita and Moab...
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    KA-POW!! .
    I've never had a good test ride on a 575. I'm just not going to try anymore. but they sure do look nice.

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    demo_slug, What sort of things made for poor rides? Did you have similar problems to mine, or is there something specific about the bike I should look for on my back-up test ride?

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    demo_slug, What sort of things made for poor rides? Did you have similar problems to mine, or is there something specific about the bike I should look for on my back-up test ride?
    Its just always been something, every time Iíve tried one out. Cheap light wheels, dual control, poorly set up brakes, weird stem, bent pedal... When I have corned on a 575 the rear brake rubs. In both directions. And that was with only 6 inch disks on the back. I run 8s on the rear of my motolite. And its stiff enough for that. If I had to guess from my rides, the 575 isnít stiff enough. My buddy rode it for a loop, he agreed that the bike was twitchy compared to an ASR. but it could be the cheap wheel/hub. Or what have you.

    Lots of people like that bike. I donít. But I would say that there is room in my test for error or dispute. Iím comparing to a bike with king hubs that Iíve been tweaking on for the last 8 months. My ML is dialed for me.

    You rode the 575. You liked it. I would think you can get the bugs worked out.

  64. #64
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    All those issues can certainly skew your impression. With a nice wheelset and FunBolts in place of a standard QR, I imagine the rear end would stiffen up a bit. I'll look for flex specifically on my next test-ride. Thanks for your input.

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    I wish demo bikes were set up with soid components. That is so freakin' annoying when something keeps happening or feels iffy because of play. The chain issue just sucks and I would normally have taken the bike back right then so I could get a good ride in but with 102 degrees, I may have just done what you did.

    The 575 will feel more stable than the AS-R SL, which is all about speed. I'd make sure the sag was set at 25% front and back and there was no play in the rear hub/wheel though. It's a stable bike- overly stable given the 69 degree head-tube angle and wheelbase, some would say. I had a Medium with a 110 mm stem. I'd probably go for a Large now and run a 100mm stem but I don't know- the Large may feel too relaxed for fast Singletrack Damn, I hate being on the cusp of two sizes. It's such a curse.

    Let us know how your second test goes. The 575 is very sensitive to being overpressurized so measure 25% sag before riding it.

    It's funny you hate the Team color. I used to as well and loved the white- still do. However, the Turq has grown on me a lot. Also, I can spot that color from a hundred yards away now. It's become a contender.

  66. #66
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    I just got off the phone with the dealer and he can swap my ML frame (in-trade) for the 575, swap front der., new cables, swap seatposts from layback to straight, new BB (my request) for about $800 - including the labor of swapping the components. Not all that painful, but of course, less would be better. I'm not convinced I could order the frame, pay shipping, buy the new parts, get a few new tools (external bearing BB stuff) to do the swap, and sell the ML and not lose nearly the same $ in the process.

    It's still on the table if I do that or not. I want to ride my ML on trail with the latest shock tuning I've done, then ride the 575 again (praying it wants to act like a bike this time) before pulling the trigger on the Yeti.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    I just got off the phone with the dealer and he can swap my ML frame (in-trade) for the 575, swap front der., new cables, swap seatposts from layback to straight, new BB (my request) for about $800 - including the labor of swapping the components. Not all that painful, but of course, less would be better. I'm not convinced I could order the frame, pay shipping, buy the new parts, get a few new tools (external bearing BB stuff) to do the swap, and sell the ML and not lose nearly the same $ in the process.

    It's still on the table if I do that or not. I want to ride my ML on trail with the latest shock tuning I've done, then ride the 575 again (praying it wants to act like a bike this time) before pulling the trigger on the Yeti.
    Did I understand it well? It seems like you are using a seatback post on your ML, right?

    If so, I would say that weight distribution could be affecting the psi needed on your shock; which is even more important when considering your weight. I dunno if you have tried a straight post, but I'd bet that it would change rear suspension feeling considerably.

    Should you do it, please keep us informed.

  68. #68
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    I have several (up to four now!) buddies with 575's and they all love them. They are cool bikes. Ridden back to back with my medium motolite, the differences are pretty subtle- more parts than frame.

    One thing I would say is, if you are thinking about the 575, try taking the rear shock off before you buy it. Or ask your shop to do it and watch. The hardware is kind of funky and it basically holds the whole rear together- the shock bolt is the only thing that connects the seatstays together. I found this kind of freaky. It's not neccesarily bad, just unique, and I think it's where some people's complaint of flex comes in.

    Again I think the yeti is a killer bike, just make sure you are comfortable with this aspect of it before you buy.

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    Yes - long torso, short legs. I had a straight seatpost when the bike was new and found it lower backache inducing. I was too hunched over with too short of a reach to the bars. You make a valid point about the setback post exacerbating the suspension issue, but it also seems to prove the neither the medium nor small ML just isn't right for my funky-ass physiology.

    I really need a 17.5 - 18" seat tube length. The medium ML is a whopping 19.25". The TT length that suits me is right about 23.5. Which is fine on the medium (23.25), yet the small crowds me. I need custom sizing from Titus and a custom Ti frame just wasn't in the budget. I'm comfortable on the small ML (with the setback post), and if it had the same suspension leverage ratio as the larger frames, I'd probably be fine.

    With the Yeti I can buy "off-the-rack" a medium with a 18.5" seat tube (only 0.5" from ideal rather than 1.25") and a top tube length of 23.4 (0.1" from ideal -vs- 0.25"). Plus, I get standard shock travel across the sizes even if I needed a small.

    At 5'-7" I'm right between sizes for most bikes. I knew after riding the medium ML it was way too big, so I opted for the small. If I could lose 50lbs, I'd be all set. Genetics has determined that I am to be a bulldog - short, muscular and mesomorphic. I'm not ultra lean, but I'm not a lard ass either.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    .

    The 575 will feel more stable than the AS-R SL, which is all about speed.
    ridden back to back. 3 people agreed. the 575 was twitchy compared to ASR. you should try an ASR it is realy nice bike. I like teal.

    I blame the lack of a brake arch. ASR has one... 575 doesn't.... I should chill. I don't know why that bike pissed me off so much. well, I do know.... but it shouldn't bother me. maybe it is becuase I feel like an asshat for recomending it.

  71. #71
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    I've looked at the shock removal replacement .pdf on the Yeti site and found it rather shocking that you have to beat it all together with a dead-blow hammer ! Like you said kind of freaky. Lots of people are flogging these things hard, so I'd venture it works well enough.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    Yes - long torso, short legs. I had a straight seatpost when the bike was new and found it lower backache inducing. I was too hunched over with too short of a reach to the bars. You make a valid point about the setback post exacerbating the suspension issue, but it also seems to prove the neither the medium nor small ML just isn't right for my funky-ass physiology.

    I really need a 17.5 - 18" seat tube length. The medium ML is a whopping 19.25". The TT length that suits me is right about 23.5. Which is fine on the medium (23.25), yet the small crowds me. I need custom sizing from Titus and a custom Ti frame just wasn't in the budget. I'm comfortable on the small ML (with the setback post), and if it had the same suspension leverage ratio as the larger frames, I'd probably be fine.

    With the Yeti I can buy "off-the-rack" a medium with a 18.5" seat tube (only 0.5" from ideal rather than 1.25") and a top tube length of 23.4 (0.1" from ideal -vs- 0.25"). Plus, I get standard shock travel across the sizes even if I needed a small.

    At 5'-7" I'm right between sizes for most bikes. I knew after riding the medium ML it was way too big, so I opted for the small. If I could lose 50lbs, I'd be all set. Genetics has determined that I am to be a bulldog - short, muscular and mesomorphic. I'm not ultra lean, but I'm not a lard ass either.
    Yes, I understand it, we are almost in the same boat. I'm between sizes, just like you, but went with the ML M, and still having around 2" clearance between crotch and TT (not exactly what I wanted, but I can live with it). The "long" seat tube (at least for a "M"), is just on the limit based on the fact that I'm using a Gravity Dropper (and so, there is a point where I can't lower it any further), but it works.

    Now that you mention the 575 M, one of those days I was visiting my LBS and looking at one of those, I'd swear that standover height is the same or even a little bit higher than my ML M. I'm mentioning this because if I'm right, going with the 575 M would represent the same issue that going with the ML M: TT-crotch clearance. So, I guess that a Small 575 and a seatback post would do the trick.

  73. #73
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    Nah, the only asshat in this dicussion so far is the doofus who bought a bike he doesn't love <--- me

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    That happens to many of us. No bike built is the best for everyone. Some love them, some are in denial, and some 'fess up, bite the bullet, and switch. Not that I'm implying you're in the last category. I'm simply saying that at least you can admit it when you don't like how a bike feels.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    Nah, the only asshat in this dicussion so far is the doofus who bought a bike he doesn't love <--- me
    However, I'd suggest don't throwing the towel, unless until the rear shock is working / set the way it should be. I still believing that there's still room for improvement

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tavinho
    However, I'd suggest don't throwing the towel, unless until the rear shock is working / set the way it should be. I still believing that there's still room for improvement
    I agree, especially since Dangeruss seems to be one of the few that are having this issue.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    ridden back to back. 3 people agreed. the 575 was twitchy compared to ASR. you should try an ASR it is realy nice bike. I like teal.

    I blame the lack of a brake arch. ASR has one... 575 doesn't.... I should chill. I don't know why that bike pissed me off so much. well, I do know.... but it shouldn't bother me. maybe it is becuase I feel like an asshat for recomending it.
    Maybe you should define what you mean by "twitchy" so I understand better. I owned both bikes together and ride them back to back many, many times. The 575 with a 69 degree headtube angle and longer wheelbase feels more stable than the AS-R SL with its 71 degree HT angle and shorter wheelbase. The AS-R just feels racier and quick (and very stable for a XC racer on the downhills, I will say) while the 575 feels even more more planted and stable on all sorts of terrain. The ASR even feels "taller" than the 575. I had the 5th Element on the AS-R with a RP3 on the 575.

    Anyway, I'm curious now so please elaborate on what you mean by "twitchy". If anything, I thought the 575 could use a slight bit quicker steering. Do you mean in slow rocky sections maybe where the longer travel could get more hung up than the AS-R or something? I'm just now

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    Anyway, I'm curious now so please elaborate on what you mean by "twitchy". If anything, I thought the 575 could use a slight bit quicker steering. Do you mean in slow rocky sections maybe where the longer travel could get more hung up than the AS-R or something? I'm just now
    the broadest definition of twitchy is a bike that takes concentration to control.

    I hate guys that Dis other peoples rides, so I'm not going to continue to be that guy.

    you know the 575 is super smooth and really flattens a trail. I can see why so many people like it. crazy insane light for a near 6 inch frame.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    the broadest definition of twitchy is a bike that takes concentration to control.

    I hate guys that Dis other peoples rides, so I'm not going to continue to be that guy.

    you know the 575 is super smooth and really flattens a trail. I can see why so many people like it. crazy insane light for a near 6 inch frame.
    Oh, I was not dissed. I was just a bit confused since I always focused more on the AS-R SL. With a 71 degree HT angle, it demands focus and I felt more relaxed on the 575. However, it may fit me differently from you for many reasons. So I was just looking for clarification to see if any specifics mirrored my own experience.

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    Any news?

    Dangeruss,

    Any news about it? Have you talked to someone at Push?

  81. #81
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    I'm at 250 before gears and on a small ML (240psi to my RP23), and it's working out well for me. However, I do not do big jumps and I am not that aggressive. YMMV.

    Dangeruss, let us know which way you ended up going.

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    *UPDATE*

    I took the serviced Yeti out for another demo after first drivetrain induced disaster. My ride was pretty enlightening. I found that the Yeti is pretty squishy too, yet I'm not coming close to bottoming out the shock. I feel this is an effect of having a full 2" stroke on the shock. I set it up with 25% sag and did my best to put a hurting on it. Rock gardens at speed and drops didn't seem to faze it much. I even managed a 3+ foot wheelie drop to flat, that I was sure was going to bottom the shock, yet didn't.

    I found the climbing prowess to be slightly better than the ML. The technique is different on the Yeti, but it seemed my seated climbs on the Yeti were as fast or faster than the often standing climbs on the ML. Bear in mind that these are quick ups and downs not extended fireroad climbs. Real steep, short, twisty jobs studded with rocks roots and eroded features. Where I tended to find the most joy was with the slacker HA and headed downhill. These same trail features can be real wheel grabbers so the slacker HA seems to help add stability. My demo ride had a shorter stem as well and that my have colored my impressions.

    The long and sort of it is that I didn't really want to get rid of the ML, but I really liked the Yeti. So.... I'll have both for a while. I ordered the Yeti 575 frame and a few components last week and it should be in today. I'll build the Yeti with a mix of ML take-offs and new parts and I'll rebuild the ML with various "lightweight" stuff I have hanging around and from my soon to be put-out-of-service Giant NRS 1. The ML will be my new XC steed in the 4" mode and let me experiment with the various tuning options that remain. While the Yeti will be my "all mountian" toy and will be the one I take to Utah with me.

    Ultimately, there were things I liked enough about the ML to keep it, But I wanted a better suited bike for more agressive riding. I think all the difference is the fact that I fit the Yeti frame better and I can use it more as intended. While the ML/ it's odd sizing/ and my weight and riding style, don't mix well. I think the ML and I will be happier if I quit asking it to do stuff she's uncomfortable with. I'll hook up with my Yeti mistress for the rough stuff

  83. #83
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    Glad you found a bike that meets your needs. Thanks for the feedback.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    *UPDATE*

    I took the serviced Yeti out for another demo after first drivetrain induced disaster. My ride was pretty enlightening. I found that the Yeti is pretty squishy too, yet I'm not coming close to bottoming out the shock. I feel this is an effect of having a full 2" stroke on the shock. I set it up with 25% sag and did my best to put a hurting on it. Rock gardens at speed and drops didn't seem to faze it much. I even managed a 3+ foot wheelie drop to flat, that I was sure was going to bottom the shock, yet didn't.

    I found the climbing prowess to be slightly better than the ML. The technique is different on the Yeti, but it seemed my seated climbs on the Yeti were as fast or faster than the often standing climbs on the ML. Bear in mind that these are quick ups and downs not extended fireroad climbs. Real steep, short, twisty jobs studded with rocks roots and eroded features. Where I tended to find the most joy was with the slacker HA and headed downhill. These same trail features can be real wheel grabbers so the slacker HA seems to help add stability. My demo ride had a shorter stem as well and that my have colored my impressions.

    The long and sort of it is that I didn't really want to get rid of the ML, but I really liked the Yeti. So.... I'll have both for a while. I ordered the Yeti 575 frame and a few components last week and it should be in today. I'll build the Yeti with a mix of ML take-offs and new parts and I'll rebuild the ML with various "lightweight" stuff I have hanging around and from my soon to be put-out-of-service Giant NRS 1. The ML will be my new XC steed in the 4" mode and let me experiment with the various tuning options that remain. While the Yeti will be my "all mountian" toy and will be the one I take to Utah with me.

    Ultimately, there were things I liked enough about the ML to keep it, But I wanted a better suited bike for more agressive riding. I think all the difference is the fact that I fit the Yeti frame better and I can use it more as intended. While the ML/ it's odd sizing/ and my weight and riding style, don't mix well. I think the ML and I will be happier if I quit asking it to do stuff she's uncomfortable with. I'll hook up with my Yeti mistress for the rough stuff

    Hey Danger... nice insight... you lucky SOB!!

    Damn... hadn't you enough with just one?

    Congratulations, bro! I feel envy... damn, a ML AND a 575... lucky bastid!
    Check my Site

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    I think the ML and I will be happier if I quit asking it to do stuff she's uncomfortable with. I'll hook up with my Yeti mistress for the rough stuff
    I got issues with that. Your ML can handle plenty, possibly more than the yeti.

    However I understand the stock, slacker geometry of the yeti does have a more free-ride feel to it, which can be confidence inspiring.

    The fork and build also play into your impressions, as did the design changes Titus made for the smaller frames.

    Anyways I am all good with it!

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    The 575 build is "complete" outside from the typical tweaks. Too dark for pics, so this weekend for sure. I'll post them on the Yeti forum and link 'em from here to retain the "purity" of the ML forum.

    I've got creaking problems with the Race Face Deus crankset, though this is not uncommon from what I read. I probably just need to back out of it and reinstall them, but it's late enough that I'm done for today. I'm just not 100% sold on this X-type bearing system yet. I never had trouble with the ISIS BB system. I wish some of these newer cranks had both options.

    I opted for the Raw frame and I gotta say it looks damn sexy. I also like the downtube cable routing. It's a lot cleaner looking than the ML's through the swinglink and down the seat tube arrangement. Longer brake hoses though, so I had to replace my plumbing on the rear Avid. A pain that I would have rather avoided.

    I went with a 90mm stem and a straight seatpost and based on my driveway test facility loops, it fits realy nice. Stupid easy to wheelie, so that's fun, i the driveway, climbing may prove to be an adventure. I might go back to a 100 or 110 stem to get some weight over the front if I need to. A trail ride will certainly be required to gather anything meaningful The head tube is a bit longer than the ML so I couldn't run my desired spacer stack with the cut steerer from the ML build. It feels fine so far, but my lower back may have a different opinion after 20 miles or so.

    This frame has the new RP23, so the new PP design is nice. It seems to be a vast improvement over the RP3. I'm running right at 200 psi to achieve proper sag. I had to use 270 psi on the ML with the RP3 and the 1.5" stroke. Quite a difference.

  87. #87
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    All good D Russ... You will get a real good chance to do some side by side comparisons...

    I think sometimes the ML gets painted that it si so XC, I dont fully agree with that, it is a strong frame, the rare stays are butty for sure, real rugged. I am happy as a pig in sh!t on more AM trails. I did not for one make my purchase as a XC ride.

    Lets see that raw frame anyways, will look the ducks nuts!



    Quote Originally Posted by Dangeruss
    The 575 build is "complete" outside from the typical tweaks. Too dark for pics, so this weekend for sure. I'll post them on the Yeti forum and link 'em from here to retain the "purity" of the ML forum.

    I've got creaking problems with the Race Face Deus crankset, though this is not uncommon from what I read. I probably just need to back out of it and reinstall them, but it's late enough that I'm done for today. I'm just not 100% sold on this X-type bearing system yet. I never had trouble with the ISIS BB system. I wish some of these newer cranks had both options.

    I opted for the Raw frame and I gotta say it looks damn sexy. I also like the downtube cable routing. It's a lot cleaner looking than the ML's through the swinglink and down the seat tube arrangement. Longer brake hoses though, so I had to replace my plumbing on the rear Avid. A pain that I would have rather avoided.

    I went with a 90mm stem and a straight seatpost and based on my driveway test facility loops, it fits realy nice. Stupid easy to wheelie, so that's fun, i the driveway, climbing may prove to be an adventure. I might go back to a 100 or 110 stem to get some weight over the front if I need to. A trail ride will certainly be required to gather anything meaningful The head tube is a bit longer than the ML so I couldn't run my desired spacer stack with the cut steerer from the ML build. It feels fine so far, but my lower back may have a different opinion after 20 miles or so.

    This frame has the new RP23, so the new PP design is nice. It seems to be a vast improvement over the RP3. I'm running right at 200 psi to achieve proper sag. I had to use 270 psi on the ML with the RP3 and the 1.5" stroke. Quite a difference.
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

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    Yeti Pics

    UPDATE

    Here are pics of the Yeti build. - http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=2191749 No, it's not a Titus, but some folks wanted to see it. And I still have the Titus frame waiting to be rebuilt into another bike.

    I think the Raw frame looks completely "tits".

  89. #89
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    Looks gorgeous! Glad you found what makes you happy...

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    Holy Son of a Cannoli! I've never fully gotten over selling mine (though I still have some sweet rides now). I love the look of the 575s. Congratulations and do let us know how you get along with it. Don't over-pressurize the shock and all will be good. Over-pressurize and it will feel very XC-like and you will get 60% travel. Some people actually do this and get a higher BB height and faster handling but keep it at 25% sag and you will see its potential. Nice rig for sure.

  91. #91
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    Congrats, I had the same delima this summer. Was very close to joining Yeti Land and buying the 575. Then this Titus sale happened and I've jumped on the Titus band wagon again(LOL). My motolite will be stopping at Red Barn for a visit with Chad and hopefully makes its way north shortly afterward. Hopefully I don't have the same issues with you with the shock progress (I'm a little lighter at 195) and I Talked with Mathius and EJ at Titus who both said I should go small. Even Chad thought small would be better.

    Again beautiful ride and enjoy and hopefully you've found the biking nirvana.

  92. #92
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    TiEndo - FYI, I'm 195 lbs too.

  93. #93
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    Sorry, was thinking Sungyang???? think he was over 225.

    Anyways enjoy, I did try the 575 a bit and wasn't quite my cup of tea as too use to my Racer-X now. Never tried the motolite at all, and buying, untested and on blind faith. But as long as its similar to my RX, I think I'll be happy. I sold my NRS1 last year, so it sounds like you and I are twins or somethin(LMAO).

    Who knows maybe I'll be like Flyer there and not like the bike and keep it in my inventory and pick up the 575 later on

  94. #94
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    heres a thought,,,,

    sweep up all your paint chips that have come off your frame already send them and your frame back to tittus repaint sell it buy a 575 a real all moutain horsey because mr titus has left the company,,,,,put your turquoise on the podium

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by YETIORNUTTIN
    sweep up all your paint chips that have come off your frame already send them and your frame back to tittus repaint sell it buy a 575 a real all moutain horsey because mr titus has left the company,,,,,put your turquoise on the podium
    Dude, if you read the end of the post Dangeruss has already got himself a 575. But your statements about Titus have never been mentioned before, thank you for sharing your valid profound insights. We are now wiser mtbr users....................Its all good.....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiEndo
    Sorry, was thinking Sungyang???? think he was over 225.

    Anyways enjoy, I did try the 575 a bit and wasn't quite my cup of tea as too use to my Racer-X now. Never tried the motolite at all, and buying, untested and on blind faith. But as long as its similar to my RX, I think I'll be happy. I sold my NRS1 last year, so it sounds like you and I are twins or somethin(LMAO).

    Who knows maybe I'll be like Flyer there and not like the bike and keep it in my inventory and pick up the 575 later on
    TiEndo, I'm fluacting between 245 - 250 lbs. Lately on the heavier side I'm currently using 06 small with RP23 at 240 psi and at Propedal setting 2.

    I also came from Racer-X (03/04 model with 80mm in medium), and although as much I liked RX, I am quite glad that I have moved to ML for two reasons:
    1. better standover height on ML...with RX I basically had none
    2. I'm beginning to ride more technical trails and enjoy the additional travel

    Since I weigh quite a bit, I need all the help I can get in climbing. And RX is such a great climber that I was hesitant to change to anything else. I can honestly say that although ML is not as good of climber as RX, it's a very very good climber. Combined with the more stable feeling on downhill, ML suits my needs much better. I would love to hear your comparison once you get your ML. And I don't think you will regret it at all.

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