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  1. #1
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    FTM carbon with 160mm fork; what do you think? I want to do it!

    Did an enduro and now I want to get on carbon, called Titus this morning and spoke with one of the reps who said that a 160 should be fine. I'm no longer doing really big moves, but still ride fairly aggressively hitting moderate sized moves to trans..... Input wanted, thanks! PS- my el guapo still going strong as ever!
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  2. #2
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    I would be a little weary of jumping a carbon framed "trail" bike.

  3. #3
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    Man, I would not do it. That bike does not have a good reputation concerning durability...
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  4. #4
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    Trails often have jumps.....I guess what I'm asking is can it handle aggressive trail riding? I thought carbon was uber durable when intact??
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  5. #5
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    Vesp, the 2009's had the bad rear end that to my understanding has been rectified...pun.
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  6. #6
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    You may be right but I have personally seen two FTM's with broken stays and on this board, there have been many. I don't think they were all 2009's either. I hope they are fixed because the ML deserves a better replacement.


    With that said, the true replacement for the ML is coming. I used to call it the EG-lite. Titus is calling it the TR26. I think that is the bike you want.

    Also, I think you mean rectumfied!
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  7. #7
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    Buddy rides a 2010 ftm carbon and has gone thru three rear derailleur hangers, and one Rokker pivot(warranty). I'd stay with the 140 or go with a different CF bike. Bike rides nice - but the Horst Link is not what its cracked-up to be...
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  8. #8
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    We shall see..... Just got one, the deal was timed nicely
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachariah View Post
    but the Horst Link is not what its cracked-up to be...
    See, that last statement shows what little you know. All HL bikes are not similar. A perfect example is the EG and the ML. The ML had terrible anti-squat and pedal performance. The EG is light years better. In fact, almost all new HL bikes, from Norco and Specialized, just to name a few, have almost the same anti-squat characteristics as VPP or dw linked bikes. By itself, the HL brings nothing to the table except for a small amount of braking performance. The wheel path and anti-squat behavior is pretty much independent of the HL.
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  10. #10
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    "Cracked up to be".... lol! Thats funny. Good one Zach
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  11. #11
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    OK dude here goes:

    I have one and I really like it. Whether it can handle a 160mm fork or not - I can't answer. How much extra leverage 10mm puts on the frame is one question to ask - the other is probably what kind of riding the extra fork size will encourage you to ride.

    So far I have loved mine and I ride it HARD. The only major issue I've had is that the design of the mech hanger is a joke - I've gone through about 6 of them and not one breakage was due to hitting anything - just metal fatigue. If you ride hard and rough terrain - you'll experience the same. My solution was to make a plate out of stainless steel which braces the hanger. Means that I am never going to break a hanger again but if I hit the derailleur hard - I'll destroy the derailleur or seatstay or both. But there was no choice as every time one broke it ruined a ride and damaged something else. I strongly recommend you look at doing something similar.

    Otherwise enjoy the ride. It's a great frame for the price.

  12. #12
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    I had a similar experience with the hanger on the Rockstar (uses the same hanger) demo I had last year. It was a bad design to have one of the mounting holes in the section of the hanger that had the least material. I had several break right at that hole. The hanger is the same on the Rockstar Carbon but I haven't had any issues because I swapped the hanger with a Wheels MFG hanger which is CNC cut instead of forged, it seems to be a little thicker then the stock hanger.
    Wheels Manufacturing Derailleur Hanger 145
    You might also look into a North Shore Billet Hanger Banger.
    Hanger Bangers « North Shore Billet

  13. #13
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    It arrived just now, quick shipping! 1st impression is this bike is sexy!
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  14. #14
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    Oops double post
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  15. #15
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    Pics wasea, when you get a minute
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  16. #16
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    Wasea, I am excited to see it! Also interested in what fork you will end up running.

    I am also taking bets on how long it will be before you return to the El Guapo. If anyone was ever a living testimonial to the El Guapo it would be you. What would you say, 25 various frames since you bought your El Guapo, and return to it every time, for literally every type of riding.

    Nonetheless I love Titus for how they are able to provide such great frames, especially carbon now, for unbelievable prices. Sure they may have a few quarks, like the derailleur hanger issue, but what manufacturer doesn't. Personally, I would take a few quarks in exchange for these amazing prices.

  17. #17
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    Ha ha thanks for that James I'll get pictures up when I can will be a little bit I'm waiting on parts by the way anyone know when the shocks are due to arrive?
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  18. #18
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    So are you planning on running your Kowa on this, or you going to throw your 55 on it? Or do you have another fork hidden in the bike cave that you are saving for this build? I look forward to hearing what you think of the build.

  19. #19
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    So is the FTM a 140mm rear? I've forgotten. I ran a 160 on my 5 Spot and loved it. I think you're like me in that you want something that will absorb some hits and feel plush through the rough stuff without flexing like a wet noodle (32mm forks). The slacker HA will be appreciated too. The only question is.... will the rear triangle keep up/hold up?

    I guess we'll find out. Sounds like a fun project and should be a good enduro mount. Get it down around 30 lbs or less and you'll be golden.
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  20. #20
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    Thanks for the input kent! I settled on the magura Thor...140mm travel with 20mm axle. Waiting on rear shock.
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  21. #21
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    Still waiting on rear shock, have called and been given varying eta's???
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  22. #22
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    Hey Sanchez,

    If you're still waiting on your shock, give me a call with your order number so I can get it shipped out to you tomorrow.
    The shocks just arrived on Wednesday, and we were at Mountain Bike Oregon all weekend.

    Thanks!

  23. #23
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    hey gravityfreaky,

    We've updated the hangers on the aluminum and carbon Titus frames, and they are now manufactured by Wheels Mfg. This means they're much stronger and more durable than the original Taiwanese ones used previously.
    They're $25 each, but so far totally worth it in quality improvement.

  24. #24
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    Can honestly say that since I started using Wheels MFG hangers I havent had one bend or break.

  25. #25
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    On its way! Thanks guys! Sooooo excited to ride
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  26. #26
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    This weekend.

    Line needs to be installed and shortened, and took your advice to get a Wheels Manufacturing hanger. Shock here Thursday!FTM carbon with 160mm fork; what do you think? I want to do it!-image.jpg
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  27. #27
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    nice

    That thing is sexy



    * Ftm has iscg tabs?
    ...

  28. #28
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    @ Wasea OOHHH AHHHH, loooks great! Broke the hanger on my racer X, quick too(2009 model) within a few months. Bought a wheels MFG and rode it on and off for 4 years before selling it a few weeks ago with out trouble.
    Disclaimer: Always get a second opinion cause I'm just guessing

  29. #29
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    Thanks sable and deer, it's a bb mount guide btw.
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  30. #30
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    I don't see a shock yet. Lookin' good though. When are you coming out to ride Cave lake again? That's the right bike for that trail.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasea04 View Post
    Line needs to be installed and shortened, and took your advice to get a Wheels Manufacturing hanger. Shock here Thursday!Click image for larger version. 

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    I've broken 2 x wheels Mfg hangers, 2 x Pilo hangers, 1 x original hanger. Not one of these broke due to impact but rather due to simple metal fatigue due to a rubbish hanger design. If you ride rough terrain - you will go through these things ( I got one ride out of some - a few weeks out of others. None of them held up any longer that the other). Every time I broke one - the derailleur and chain did some damage to the carbon chain or seat stay depending. We aware and be prepared.

    My solution has been to make a brace out of thin stainless steel plate that I painstakingly ground to the right size and shape and which braces on the outside of the hanger. This has held up so far and I don't see that changing. If I hit the derailleur - the plate should bend preventing chainstay damage. Also means that no further damage can occur. You may wish to consider this as hangers are really really expensive.

  32. #32
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    Want to hear about that Thor

    Not the same problem but, on EG I stack two hangers and use a longer chainring nut so I can usa the medium cage and SS hub. Cut off to shape part of a bent hanger and use it as a spacer, then stack the new hanger on top. All the voids are filled and most of the new hanger still mates w/ the seatstay and is strong. Have not seen how an FTM hanger fits, maybe you could try this to beef it up?
    ...

  33. #33
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    Quick update: I put one ride on the FTM, mostly paved paths, prior to dropping it off at my LBS to install the rear brake. Hence the wussy demo ride. Anyhow, it was discovered that my near new rear brake had a broken piston in the caliper, and so my bike sits waiting on a warrantied part to arrive
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by gravityfreaky View Post
    I've broken 2 x wheels Mfg hangers, 2 x Pilo hangers, 1 x original hanger. Not one of these broke due to impact but rather due to simple metal fatigue due to a rubbish hanger design. If you ride rough terrain - you will go through these things ( I got one ride out of some - a few weeks out of others. None of them held up any longer that the other). Every time I broke one - the derailleur and chain did some damage to the carbon chain or seat stay depending. We aware and be prepared.

    My solution has been to make a brace out of thin stainless steel plate that I painstakingly ground to the right size and shape and which braces on the outside of the hanger. This has held up so far and I don't see that changing. If I hit the derailleur - the plate should bend preventing chainstay damage. Also means that no further damage can occur. You may wish to consider this as hangers are really really expensive.
    Wow, that is a LOT of RD hangers!!! I personally know two other FTM carbon owners who finally ditched their frames, for ones with better RD dropout designs...
    "The ONLY person who needs to race.....is the entrant"

  35. #35
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    Here's a possible solution to the hanger problem, the old M800 Saint derailleur. I've got the proper axle, it's a standard 10mm thru, and the derailleur threads directly into the end of the axle. What do you think? Also, being a rapid rise, it should work with my 10 speed XT shifters, right?
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasea04 View Post
    Here's a possible solution to the hanger problem, the old M800 Saint derailleur. I've got the proper axle, it's a standard 10mm thru, and the derailleur threads directly into the end of the axle. What do you think? Also, being a rapid rise, it should work with my 10 speed XT shifters, right?
    Sounds like a good option.

  37. #37
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    With some slight modification - this hanger will work BikerBob.com
    The origional hanger always break at the mounting hole closest to the derailleur. This Bike Bob on would enable you to tap one or two mounting holes but not the third one where the weakness is. The three little mounting screw only really locate the hanger - it's strength comes from the QR which holds it tight against the dropout. I would try this.

  38. #38
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    Just to clarify - I would order the silver one not the black one. The black one is for the FTM c - don't know which one the silver one is but I'd get that one and modify it. Trust me - you WILL break the standard one - particularly if you build is any indication of how hard you plan on riding it.

  39. #39
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    Final iteration.....

    I didn't like the 140mm Thor, stack height was too low, and so I picked up a 150mm Rev RC3. The Rev matches up nicely with the RT3 Monarch, and the ride height feels more natural for me coming off a bigger bike. Thanks Gravity for the heads up on the hanger from Bob, so far no issues but I don't want to eat my words. The playfulness of this bike is outstanding, although I haven't taken it on any highly technical or rough trails, it loves to bounce around and jump every little rise. Believe it or not, but the EG is actually is a more efficient pedaler without any propedal engaged IMO; I run the RT3 in the semi locked out position most of the time, and only use the open setting when descending rigorous terrain. The middle position is pretty much perfect for all around riding, at least thus far on mild xc trails...... I'm going to be pushing the FTMc this week, we'll see how it handles a bit more, shall we say, English
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails FTM carbon with 160mm fork; what do you think? I want to do it!-image.jpeg  

    FTM carbon with 160mm fork; what do you think? I want to do it!-image_3.jpeg  

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  40. #40
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    Looks good. So to be clear - you opted for a 150mm Revelation instead of a 160mm Lyrik? That doesn't look like a Rev in the pics - looks burlier.

    If you find you want a slacker head angle - let me know. I had a custom off-set headset made to bring the h/a back to 67 degrees and it's been perfect. And keep an eye on that hanger ;-)

  41. #41
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    Looks good wasea. Got bike envy!
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  42. #42
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    FTM carbon with 160mm fork; what do you think? I want to do it!-20130820_150826.jpg

    Not pretty but effective

  43. #43
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    Tried to order a hanger for my 09 FTM from Bob, Even Paid, he emailed me back telling me to go somewhere else to get a hanger, he was not dealing with Titus Parts any more.
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  44. #44
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    Interesting news SXR, hmmm.....Well, I've been getting over my learning curve for the FTM and I'm very impressed. 'Took it up to a trail with some freeride features and tested the waters on a few 15-20 footers, which felt great. Obviously the FTM's not meant to be hucker, who likes harsh impacts anyway, but in the right hands it's totally capable of AM type terrain. To be totally fair the frame and fork flex noticeably and it bothers me a little, however when I'm focused on riding I don't notice it. It's possible that the flex is in my wheels as well, either way I would not classify the FTM as 'flexy.' On steep climbs the rear suspension squats and feels sluggish, which could be me being way out of shape. Another thing that is odd is that in both the front and rear I'm only getting 75% of the travel setup with proper sag of %30, I don't mind actually as it feels great when riding, not harsh at all over very rocky terrain, just odd. I like this bike more and more....
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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasea04 View Post
    Interesting news SXR, hmmm.....Well, I've been getting over my learning curve for the FTM and I'm very impressed. 'Took it up to a trail with some freeride features and tested the waters on a few 15-20 footers, which felt great. Obviously the FTM's not meant to be hucker, who likes harsh impacts anyway, but in the right hands it's totally capable of AM type terrain. To be totally fair the frame and fork flex noticeably and it bothers me a little, however when I'm focused on riding I don't notice it. It's possible that the flex is in my wheels as well, either way I would not classify the FTM as 'flexy.' On steep climbs the rear suspension squats and feels sluggish, which could be me being way out of shape. Another thing that is odd is that in both the front and rear I'm only getting 75% of the travel setup with proper sag of %30, I don't mind actually as it feels great when riding, not harsh at all over very rocky terrain, just odd. I like this bike more and more....
    It is pretty flexy in the rear. The bushes rather than bearings in the chain stay linkage do have a small amount of lateral play which can be felt as flex. If I run a tyre wider than 2.25, under very hard sprints, it will rub in the swingarm due to rear end flex. That may sound bad to some but as you have noted - doesn't really detract from the ride. As for the sluggish feel - I put that down to the FSR / 4 bar linkage as all Specialized's I've ridden have the same feel. Compared to my 2 kg heavier split pivot bike - the lighter FTM 'feels' sluggish under power. Not sure that that actually translates to being sluggish - it's more just a feel at the pedals.

    Finally, the amount of exposed rear shock shaft past the o-ring doesn't mean you're not getting full travel - i bet you are. The stroke of the shock is only 48mm while the shaft is a lot longer. After you next ride, measure the distance from the o-ring to the shock body and I'll bet you've achieved bottom out at 48mm.

  46. #46
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    Do those bushes in the seatstay have similar parts as el Guapo (plastic bushings w/ metal insert, pem nut and thru bolt)? Play/wear can be sorted

    Never had RS shock, but owned a couple solo air forks and all of them had problems getting full travel (factory wrong size o-rings). Travel will feel funky and hold the front end up. Those need to be changed out or travel decreases as the fluid passes
    ...

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasea04 View Post
    Interesting news SXR, hmmm.....Well, I've been getting over my learning curve for the FTM and I'm very impressed. 'Took it up to a trail with some freeride features and tested the waters on a few 15-20 footers, which felt great. Obviously the FTM's not meant to be hucker, who likes harsh impacts anyway, but in the right hands it's totally capable of AM type terrain. To be totally fair the frame and fork flex noticeably and it bothers me a little, however when I'm focused on riding I don't notice it. It's possible that the flex is in my wheels as well, either way I would not classify the FTM as 'flexy.' On steep climbs the rear suspension squats and feels sluggish, which could be me being way out of shape. Another thing that is odd is that in both the front and rear I'm only getting 75% of the travel setup with proper sag of %30, I don't mind actually as it feels great when riding, not harsh at all over very rocky terrain, just odd. I like this bike more and more....
    The FTM and ML for that matter, have considerably worse pedaling manners than the EG, which is what I think you are noticing. I also think the carbon FTM has a limiter in the shock as it was not properly designed for the full 135mm of travel.
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