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  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Rollin'in'Zona's Avatar
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    Wink El Guapo - SPV or NO SPV, that is the question...

    Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
    The slings and arrows of SPV damping,
    Or to take arms against a sea of constipation,
    And by opposing end them? To shim: to SPV;
    No more; and by shim to say we end
    The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
    That MTB flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation
    Devoutly to be wish'd...

    So the shock I'm putting on the El Guapo - Manitou Evolver ISX - comes in two forms; one SPV, the other Intrinsic shim. I never liked SPV on the horst link SuperMoto (swinger 4), so I've been planning on the Intrinsic shimed ISX-6 for the El Guapo.

    However, there are others out there who understand this much more than I do, so I'm axin' y'all;

    [SIZE="4"]To shim, or not to shim? SPV, or Intrinsic???[/SIZE]
    Last edited by Rollin'in'Zona; 07-10-2007 at 06:24 PM.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
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    I would get the Intrinsic damper.

  3. #3
    Trophy Husband
    Reputation: geolover's Avatar
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    100% Intrinsic!
    Extreme stationary biker.

  4. #4
    the 36 year old grom
    Reputation: demo_slug's Avatar
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    what is with the intrinsic love??? is it really any good? I hated my manitou SPV fork and shock. liked my travis TPC+ but it was a brick.

    RNZ, you might want a shock with some bottomout adjustment, hint hint wink wink

  5. #5
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
    Reputation: crisillo's Avatar
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    have read great things about the evolver.. I would go Intrinsic

  6. #6
    "El Whatever"
    Reputation: Warp's Avatar
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    Two words fer ya, 'Zona....

    DOUBLE BARREL
    Check my Site

  7. #7
    not so super...
    Reputation: SSINGA's Avatar
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    Four letters

    CCDB

    Nothing to see here.

  8. #8
    Master of None
    Reputation: presslab's Avatar
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    I have Nixon forks in both SPV and Intrinsic. SPV is better for big hits; it is more progressive than Intrinsic but small bump performance is terrible. I have the Intrinsic Nixon on my El G. and it is goooood.

  9. #9
    Tonight we ride.
    Reputation: fonseca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by presslab
    I have Nixon forks in both SPV and Intrinsic. SPV is better for big hits; it is more progressive than Intrinsic but small bump performance is terrible. I have the Intrinsic Nixon on my El G. and it is goooood.
    I disagree that SPV is better for big hits and is more progressive than Intrinsic. Quite the opposite, Intrinsic is active when riding along, and very sensitive to small bumps. It really doesn't do much until the end of the travel, when it (rather sharply) ramps up to avoid bottom out, which SPV doesn't do. It's effectively an upside down SPV cartridge. I thought it would be a good upgrade from TPC+ in my Nixon Super, and it was not. Nothing beats TPC+ for all-around trail riding; the only downside is that the TPC+ compression adjustment is essentially low speed only.

    SPV IMO doesn't belong in a fork (unless it's a short travel XC race fork), but it's great for shocks. I don't think you can really compare front and rear suspension damping either. I like a very active fork in the front and hated SPV on my Firefly, but a bit of initial platform in the rear is great. Maybe that's because I usually climb seated instead of standing, when SPV might actually be useful up front.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rollin'in'Zona
    I never liked SPV on the horst link SuperMoto (swinger 4), so I've been planning on the Intrinsic shimed ISX-6 for the El Guapo.
    I'm currently running my SM in 7" mode with a Swinger 6-way, and it would not be possible without SPV. Thanks to the platform it climbs amazingly well, doesn't wallow, and I can make it up anything just as easily as I can with it in 4.5"/5.7" mode running an air shock. Heck, it's a better climber than my SB and weighs 10lbs more. I'm running about 110psi in it. When I do shuttle runs in the mtns I drop it to 75psi or so, which gives me a bit more sag and almost no platform. And unlike the fork damper, the Swinger's SPV has great bottom out adjust, very easy to dial in the ramp up at the end of the stroke. So I love SPV shocks, especially the Manitou flavor where I can really fine tune it. If this was a DH bike only, I would rather have Intrinsic though.

    I don't think the Evolver would work well at all on the SM, its large volume means it would blow through the travel too easily. At least with the standard rocker using a 2" stroke shock. I had that problem with the RP3 even without the high volume air sleeve, and using the HV sleeve it wasn't even rideable. But the EG looks like it has a rising rate, so the Evolver should still be good even for heavier riders.

    I think with an Intrinsic shock you're going to bob a bit more at low speeds, but the trade off is much better small bump compliance on fast descents and an overall more active rear suspension. If you didn't like SPV on your 4-way, well, I doubt you'll like it on the Evolver either. So you know what to do.
    Last edited by fonseca; 07-11-2007 at 10:46 PM.

  10. #10
    Master of None
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    Quote Originally Posted by fonseca
    I disagree that SPV is better for big hits and is more progressive than Intrinsic. Quite the opposite, Intrinsic is active when riding along, and very sensitive to small bumps. It really doesn't do much until the end of the travel, when it (rather sharply) ramps up to avoid bottom out, which SPV doesn't do. It's effectively an upside down SPV cartridge. I thought it would be a good upgrade from TPC+ in my Nixon Super, and it was not. Nothing beats TPC+ for all-around trail riding; the only downside is that the TPC+ compression adjustment is essentially low speed only.
    I must respectfully disagree with you. As shown here:
    spvvsintrinsic.JPG

    You can see that SPV has more damping at the end of the travel. Also, SPV has more adjustment at end of travel with the bottom-out knob.

    It's not an upside down SPV cartridge. It's vastly different. SPV has an open oil chamber that uses the inside of the stanchion where Intrinsic is a true cartridge damper.

    Intrinsic works great, but like pretty much all forks they need to be custom tuned for the rider. Some forks just happen to be better tuned from the factory for certain riders/conditions.

    Quote Originally Posted by fonseca
    SPV IMO doesn't belong in a fork (unless it's a short travel XC race fork), but it's great for shocks. I don't think you can really compare front and rear suspension damping either. I like a very active fork in the front and hated SPV on my Firefly, but a bit of initial platform in the rear is great. Maybe that's because I usually climb seated instead of standing, when SPV might actually be useful up front.
    The concept behind SPV is great. Unfortunately Manitou's implementation is not the best. They tout it as a stable platform to reduce bobbing, which it works well for that. However I think the stable platform feature is unnecessary for forks. For shocks a very light platform is nice, but with SPV there seems to be too much hysteresis which makes for a very "on-off" feeling platform. Where SPV really shines is that the compression damping becomes progressively firmer as the suspension moves into it's travel. Luckily the stable platform can be disabled with the "Devolve" mod yet the progressive damping will remain.

  11. #11
    Tonight we ride.
    Reputation: fonseca's Avatar
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    We'll have to agree to disagree then. I don't know what model year that chart is comparing, but on my '06 intrinsic damper I have a readily available knob that does nothing but adjust bottom out. It's not compression. Can you do that on the SPVE damper? I can go from very linear to super-progressive after using a little more than half the travel, with no possibility of using it all unless I were to take a much bigger drop than I ever would on a Nixon.

    And while I only have experience with the older (Sherman) SPV and not SPV Evolve, all I can do is reiterate how much it sucked. Even at minimum pressure and max volume it felt lke a rigid fork on small bumps until it opened up, and yet I went through too much travel on small drops. I don't recall it having any bottom out adjust at all. IMO it's a poor choice for FR/DH. The ability to control progressivity makes the Intrinsic damper the better option for me.

    And I didn't say it WAS an upside down SPV, only that it effectively behaves as such, adjusting resistance at the end of stroke instead of the beginning like SPV. I wasn't comparing actual internals, apologies if I gave that impression.

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