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  1. #1
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    El Guapo demo bike first impressions

    I received my demo El Guapo and set it up. A nice build! Lyrik solo air, Juicy 7, Crossmax SX, etc.

    The bike frame size medium, and I weigh 195 lb w/gear and 34" inseam.

    The good:
    Short top tube - comfortable and great for moving around the cockpit.
    Climbing - no bob, very stable yet suspension still fully active while pedaling.
    Looks great - black ano frame, clean lines, nice cable routing.
    Stiff - the rear triangle is about twice as stiff as my single pivot bike.
    Handling - railed the corners, very confident.
    Head angle - a bit slow on the climbs but on the descents it was just right.

    The bad:
    Pearl shock - couldn't get more than 3/4 travel, too much compression damping
    Lyrik fork - again too much high speed compression but otherwise smooth.

    I set the sag up at my usual 30% on the fork and shock. However, even pushing the rear of the bike into the ground off jumps I could not get at that last 1/4 travel. I turned the gold 'gate' knob all the way out and could get the bike to bob quite easily by bounching on the seat; however there was still too much compression damping and the rear felt harsh over small rocks. I let out a little air but it really stiffened up at the end! Still could not get all the travel. I let out ALL the air and I then could get it to bottom by pushing it down by hand. The rebound adjustment was fine, although a little sensitive - one click made a large change. I left the 'gate' knob all the way out.

    I tested the rear tire for frame contact at full bottom and there is about 1/4" from the cable stop with the 2.3" Continental Vertical UST tire.

    The cable routing on the sides of the top tube was never a problem. I never found it to be annoying and rarely did my knees hit the cables.

    The medium frame fit me perfect. I like a bit smaller frame, and it fit like a glove.

    There are two mounting holes for the shock linkage arm and mine is in the lower hole. The measured BB height is 13.5". I imagine if the bolt was moved to the other hole the BB height would then be the 13.85" with a steeper head angle.

    I'll add more to this thread as I ride the bike more.

  2. #2
    thats right living legend
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    Nice review! Thanks it read well.

    I don't know?... but somehow I doubt changing the shock mounting hole will change the BB hieght or head angle?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    Nice review! Thanks it read well.

    I don't know?... but somehow I doubt changing the shock mounting hole will change the BB hieght or head angle?
    Glad you liked it.

    It's the lower pivot hole for that silver linkage arm that the shock bolts to. It looks like what it does is raise up the rear of the bike but keep the travel the same. I imagine also it would give more frame clearance for larger tires when you bottom out.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by presslab
    Glad you liked it.

    It's the lower pivot hole for that silver linkage arm that the shock bolts to. It looks like what it does is raise up the rear of the bike but keep the travel the same. I imagine also it would give more frame clearance for larger tires when you bottom out.
    Thanks, man!!!

    Sweet, revealing review... I guess you addressed most of people's concerns. Cool from ya!

    Now go grab a camera and give us photo-proof!

    As for the holes, Titus Jeff mentioned the holes also give different rates for running either a coil or air shock... Let us know how it affects geometry (if any)... We could have "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde" bike here...
    Check my Site

  5. #5
    FM
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    Quote Originally Posted by presslab
    I received my demo El Guapo and set it up. A nice build! Lyrik solo air, Juicy 7, Crossmax SX, etc.

    The bad:
    Pearl shock - couldn't get more than 3/4 travel, too much compression damping
    Lyrik fork - again too much high speed compression but otherwise smooth.

    I set the sag up at my usual 30% on the fork and shock. However, even pushing the rear of the bike into the ground off jumps I could not get at that last 1/4 travel. I let out ALL the air and I then could get it to bottom by pushing it down by hand.
    I wonder if this is the elastomer bottom out bumper?

    Good review... thanks

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    I wonder if this is the elastomer bottom out bumper?

    Good review... thanks
    I have an elastomer from a 5th Air (same as Swinger recommended by Tscheezy)... anyone with a Pearl is invited to try it. Just measure the shaft diameter of the Pearl to see if the one on the 5th fits, but I'm positive it will.

    I'm afraid it would not arrive in time for presslab, though.
    Check my Site

  7. #7
    the 36 year old grom
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    conti 2.3 is a very small tire. very odd that it was sent out to you with basically an XC tire. its about the same size as a nevegal 2.1.

    all the titus ddemos had nevgal 2.5s on them. that would explain the 13.5 bb height. with a proper tire it should be close to the published spec.

    but, 1/4 inch clearance at bottom out is not much. TSchezzy complained about tire rub at full compresion on his interbike review.. you should try a bigger tire before you buy. you paid $200 for the test ride you should make them send you the right tires.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM
    I wonder if this is the elastomer bottom out bumper?

    Good review... thanks
    Hmm, could be! I could compress the shock fully by hand with no air in it, and I could feel the distinct bottoming when I did that. The elastomer must not be that stiff if I could compress it by hand? I dunno. But with the way it is setup now it's like riding a 4.5" travel bike. Maybe if I did huge drops I could get to use the rest of the travel. But I don't so I'd rather it be a little more 'linear.'

    I'll move the linkage to the other position tonight and measure the BB height and tire clearance when bottomed.

    And I'll try to snap a few pics.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by presslab
    I received my demo El Guapo and set it up. A nice build! Lyrik solo air, Juicy 7, Crossmax SX, etc.

    The bike frame size medium, and I weigh 195 lb w/gear and 34" inseam.

    The good:
    Short top tube - comfortable and great for moving around the cockpit.
    Climbing - no bob, very stable yet suspension still fully active while pedaling.
    Looks great - black ano frame, clean lines, nice cable routing.
    Stiff - the rear triangle is about twice as stiff as my single pivot bike.
    Handling - railed the corners, very confident.
    Head angle - a bit slow on the climbs but on the descents it was just right.

    The bad:
    Pearl shock - couldn't get more than 3/4 travel, too much compression damping
    Lyrik fork - again too much high speed compression but otherwise smooth.

    I set the sag up at my usual 30% on the fork and shock. However, even pushing the rear of the bike into the ground off jumps I could not get at that last 1/4 travel. I turned the gold 'gate' knob all the way out and could get the bike to bob quite easily by bounching on the seat; however there was still too much compression damping and the rear felt harsh over small rocks. I let out a little air but it really stiffened up at the end! Still could not get all the travel. I let out ALL the air and I then could get it to bottom by pushing it down by hand. The rebound adjustment was fine, although a little sensitive - one click made a large change. I left the 'gate' knob all the way out.

    I tested the rear tire for frame contact at full bottom and there is about 1/4" from the cable stop with the 2.3" Continental Vertical UST tire.

    The cable routing on the sides of the top tube was never a problem. I never found it to be annoying and rarely did my knees hit the cables.

    The medium frame fit me perfect. I like a bit smaller frame, and it fit like a glove.

    There are two mounting holes for the shock linkage arm and mine is in the lower hole. The measured BB height is 13.5". I imagine if the bolt was moved to the other hole the BB height would then be the 13.85" with a steeper head angle.

    I'll add more to this thread as I ride the bike more.


    What settings are you using on the Solo Air and how much do you weight?

    Thanks!
    "If an illegal alien is an undocumented immigrant, than a drug dealer is an unlicensed pharmicist."

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    conti 2.3 is a very small tire. very odd that it was sent out to you with basically an XC tire. its about the same size as a nevegal 2.1.

    all the titus ddemos had nevgal 2.5s on them. that would explain the 13.5 bb height. with a proper tire it should be close to the published spec.

    but, 1/4 inch clearance at bottom out is not much. TSchezzy complained about tire rub at full compresion on his interbike review.. you should try a bigger tire before you buy. you paid $200 for the test ride you should make them send you the right tires.
    At first glance the tires didn't seem too skinny; I will measure them. Normally I run a 2.35 tire in the rear, but Titus lists a 2.5 max and I agree, I doubt a 'real' 2.5 will clear the cable stop on the seat tube.

    The performance of the Conti tires is ok, nothing to write home about. I like the slow rebound rubber compounds...

  11. #11
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
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    nice review

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullit71
    What settings are you using on the Solo Air and how much do you weight?

    Thanks!
    I'll check my exact settings and report back. I know the "high speed compression" knob is all the way CCW.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by presslab
    I'll check my exact settings and report back. I know the "high speed compression" knob is all the way CCW.

    Thanks!
    "If an illegal alien is an undocumented immigrant, than a drug dealer is an unlicensed pharmicist."

  14. #14
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    Here's the long awaited pic:
    DSCN2265.JPG

    The Lyrik settings are 50 PSI, low speed compression 10 clicks from full in, high speed compression full out, rebound 7 clicks from full in. I am 195 lbs geared up.

    Moving the linkage bolt had no effect on BB height. In the upper position did give about 1/8" more tire clearance when bottomed. I suspect it chances how 'variable' the leverage ratio is.

    The Conti Vertical 2.3" tires measure out at 2.252" at the outer knobs.

  15. #15
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by presslab
    Here's the long awaited pic:
    ROTFLMAO!!!



    Bro, thanks for the info!

    (But we want more details of the box... it looks like a motorcycle ran over it)
    Check my Site

  16. #16
    thats right living legend
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    Do you mind posting a pic of the other side of the box please... Thanks!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    Do you mind posting a pic of the other side of the box please... Thanks!
    NICE looking cardboard! I just wish they weren't assembled overseas...

  18. #18
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollin'in'Zona
    NICE looking cardboard! I just wish they weren't assembled overseas...
    cardboard that is assembled overseas but designed in the USA

  19. #19
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    What ?~?

    That's not a Titus Box !~!

    Competitive Cyclist

    no moto no mustard just plain ran over USA designed assembled overseas cardboard...

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackagness
    Do you mind posting a pic of the other side of the box please... Thanks!
    will that side be the mustard

  21. #21
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    Oh, just wait for the box action pics!!


    here is a better pic:
    DSCN2267.JPG

    Here is a close-up of the adjustable linkage:
    DSCN2268.JPG


    The mark on the box is courtesy of United Package Smashers, aka UPS. I think they were playing fork lift hockey with my box.

  22. #22
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
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    cool.. that looks beefy.... and dusty... as it should be

  23. #23
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    Just for referrence

    The upper mounting hole doesn't change the BB height, we've played around to check it out. The upper hole changes the leverage ratio for running a coil shock. ride On- E2
    Don't drink it

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by presslab
    Here's the long awaited pic:
    DSCN2265.JPG

    The Lyrik settings are 50 PSI, low speed compression 10 clicks from full in, high speed compression full out, rebound 7 clicks from full in. I am 195 lbs geared up.

    Moving the linkage bolt had no effect on BB height. In the upper position did give about 1/8" more tire clearance when bottomed. I suspect it chances how 'variable' the leverage ratio is.

    The Conti Vertical 2.3" tires measure out at 2.252" at the outer knobs.

    presslab,

    It's interesting that the PSI you run is lower than recommended for your weight. I noticed this too. I'm 220lbs and it says between 75-85psi. I run ~60psi to get correct sag.

    I see that you like slower rebound. I'll give that a try. I'm still fiddling to get the fork how I like it....
    "If an illegal alien is an undocumented immigrant, than a drug dealer is an unlicensed pharmicist."

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullit71
    presslab,

    It's interesting that the PSI you run is lower than recommended for your weight. I noticed this too. I'm 220lbs and it says between 75-85psi. I run ~60psi to get correct sag.

    I see that you like slower rebound. I'll give that a try. I'm still fiddling to get the fork how I like it....
    The PSI depends on the weight bias. These type of bikes with a rearward bias will have less weight on the fork, so that requires less PSI for the spring pressure.

    Actually I prefer a faster rebound. Maybe it's just a manufacturing tolerance? But it seems to rebound pretty quick.

    One simple way for adjusting rebound is to ride up a curb. Slow the rebound way down and then ride over the curb. Remember how that feels. Then speed up the rebound while riding over it again. Keep doing that until you can feel the fork kick back just a tiny bit. Now you could leave the rebound right there or slow it back down just a little.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by E2@CC
    The upper mounting hole doesn't change the BB height, we've played around to check it out. The upper hole changes the leverage ratio for running a coil shock. ride On- E2
    Good to know! Hey E2, will CC sell the frame w/o shock? I called and talked to someone but they said they couldn't. Maybe you can check on it? Thanks!

  27. #27
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    That frame is begging for a Roco Air or Coil.

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    Don't care much for the Pearl either. Talked to Darren at Push and he likes the RP23 for it best. He's gonna send me one and I'll have a better feel for the bike then.

    Only have a few ride on it so far but don't feel I'm getting full travel (even with only 30 psi) and can't stand the "fst" noise on every compression and rebound.

    Will have a better report after I spend a month with it at Deer Valley.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian
    Don't care much for the Pearl either. Talked to Darren at Push and he likes the RP23 for it best. He's gonna send me one and I'll have a better feel for the bike then.

    Only have a few ride on it so far but don't feel I'm getting full travel (even with only 30 psi) and can't stand the "fst" noise on every compression and rebound.

    Will have a better report after I spend a month with it at Deer Valley.

    lol... the Pearl is so constipated that even a mate on a plush low mounted single pivot literally smashed it with a hammer. I've never really seen him lose the plot before.... he recently moved away and i am sad.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by presslab
    Good to know! Hey E2, will CC sell the frame w/o shock? I called and talked to someone but they said they couldn't. Maybe you can check on it? Thanks!
    I tried to get mine shipped w/o the shock - my lbs even went to bat for me - but no dice. I think mine's coming from Titus with a DHX5, which I will swap immidiately for an Evolver- ISX6.

  31. #31
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    Ahhh, it got me!!

    I was climbing "Rough Go" trail which is a virtual endless rock garden and I was marveling at how the rear suspension was tracking over the rocks. Very nice! A couple times I imagined an adjustable fork would be good but most times the slightly longer than normal chain stays made climbing effortless when the going got rough.

    And then it happened!! I didn't quite loft my front wheel enough over a rock and I lost momentum and slid forward a bit. I didn't even crash, just put my feet down. Here is the carnage:
    DSCN2272.JPG

    The cable guide reached out and took a swipe at my leg. Now, I've had more than my fair share of run-ins with the handlebar controls, etc, and this was pretty minor all things considered. But it is just another thing to bump into. Perhaps it might be better using a lower profile zip tie than these fancy cable guide clips.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by presslab
    I was climbing "Rough Go" trail which is a virtual endless rock garden and I was marveling at how the rear suspension was tracking over the rocks. Very nice! A couple times I imagined an adjustable fork would be good but most times the slightly longer than normal chain stays made climbing effortless when the going got rough.

    And then it happened!! I didn't quite loft my front wheel enough over a rock and I lost momentum and slid forward a bit. I didn't even crash, just put my feet down. Here is the carnage:
    DSCN2272.JPG

    The cable guide reached out and took a swipe at my leg. Now, I've had more than my fair share of run-ins with the handlebar controls, etc, and this was pretty minor all things considered. But it is just another thing to bump into. Perhaps it might be better using a lower profile zip tie than these fancy cable guide clips.
    Maybe you should take up an easier sport...like competitive eating.
    Extreme stationary biker.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    Maybe you should take up an easier sport...like competitive eating.
    There has been some concern over the cable routing in the other threads. At first I thought it was no big deal, but it turns out those concerns were well founded. However it's not a huge problem and it will not keep me from buying this frame! I'm really not a weenie, I swear!

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by presslab
    There has been some concern over the cable routing in the other threads. At first I thought it was no big deal, but it turns out those concerns were well founded. However it's not a huge problem and it will not keep me from buying this frame! I'm really not a weenie, I swear!
    I know, I'm just giving you a hard time. I'm a little grumpy because I can't ride for 5 weeks.

    The cable routing isn't a huge deal for me either...my SuMo has cable routed down the side as well. Rarely do I get the occasional flesh wound from a jab by the cable tie.

    cheers
    Extreme stationary biker.

  35. #35
    the 36 year old grom
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    Quote Originally Posted by presslab
    I'm really not a weenie, I swear!
    you are not a weeine, weeines shave thier legs.. maybe the leg shave is El guapo's way of calling you roadie.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by geolover
    Maybe you should take up an easier sport...like competitive eating.
    IFOCE



    you think Whistler is dangerous....

  37. #37
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    Linkage file for El Guapo

    Attached is a file for the Linkage suspension modeling software that I made up.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by presslab
    Attached is a file for the Linkage suspension modeling software that I made up.
    Thank-you

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    the IC goes in the opposite direction on the El Guapo than the El Moto Lite !~!

    very linear gradients... yet very El Super Moto like in the curves... just better perhaps

    interesting.... need more time to really get into this !~!

  40. #40
    the 36 year old grom
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    Quote Originally Posted by presslab
    Attached is a file for the Linkage suspension modeling software that I made up.
    thanks for the file.

  41. #41
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    What program opens that file...

  42. #42
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by orthorex
    What program opens that file...
    Linkage Version 2.5

    Did you guys noticed the axle path very similar to that of the Switchblade??

    Also, the SB gets a higher raising rate and almost as rising as the Guapo in "Coil" configuration...
    Check my Site

  43. #43
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    Thanks Warp. Cool program.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    Linkage Version 2.5

    Did you guys noticed the axle path very similar to that of the Switchblade??

    Also, the SB gets a higher raising rate and almost as rising as the Guapo in "Coil" configuration...
    stoke grows

  45. #45
    the 36 year old grom
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    Linkage Version 2.5

    Did you guys noticed the axle path very similar to that of the Switchblade??

    Also, the SB gets a higher raising rate and almost as rising as the Guapo in "Coil" configuration...
    I did not notice that presslab’s guapo model had a “coil” option. Or did I not understand correctly? Is there an option in the software?

    But yeah the guapo’s main pivot is above the BB like the switchblade. The pivot of the supermoto was lower and behind the BB. And I’d call the layout of the el G suspension "supermoto with a full seat tube". They both have a rate link connected to the down tube. The guapo just has the long seat stay that goes around the seat tube.

  46. #46
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    I did not notice that presslab’s guapo model had a “coil” option. Or did I not understand correctly? Is there an option in the software?
    The v2.5 has the "Drag Points" option to move the pivots around, so you can understand how would moving them would affect the suspension.

    With this option, I moved the fixed rocker position a bit up the gusset as it's on the bike and found out the wheelpath to be identical or at least very close, while the leverage curve was more rising in rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by demo_slug
    But yeah the guapo’s main pivot is above the BB like the switchblade. The pivot of the supermoto was lower and behind the BB. And I’d call the layout of the el G suspension "supermoto with a full seat tube". They both have a rate link connected to the down tube. The guapo just has the long seat stay that goes around the seat tube.
    Agreed

    Here's the file for the SB with 5" rockers and TALAS frame. Sorry, but it's just the suspension, not the frame polygons. On this one, I forgot the polygons but dedicated to make the suspension the most accurate that it was possible to me.

    If anyone has a more accurate version, or getting different results, please share it!
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Check my Site

  47. #47
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    I am a noob at the Linkage software. Is there a way to add an optional pivot?

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by presslab
    I am a noob at the Linkage software. Is there a way to add an optional pivot?
    Just use the "drag points" option and save it with the changes... under a different name, so you would not erase the previous.

    Awesome job with that file, bro!!! Honestly!!
    Check my Site

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    ...
    Here's the file for the SB with 5" rockers and TALAS frame. Sorry, but it's just the suspension, not the frame polygons. On this one, I forgot the polygons but dedicated to make the suspension the most accurate that it was possible to me.

    If anyone has a more accurate version, or getting different results, please share it!
    Thanks Warp

    I can't believe you don't have a coil on it ?~? Looks like a coil curve

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