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Thread: ¿26?

  1. #1
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    ¿26?

    Ben was the only person I've spoken to about the new ride, hinted at spring time. Now that he's no longer with Titus..

    *¿will there be a new El Guapo 26er?
    Last edited by J:; 05-26-2011 at 01:42 PM.

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    There had F-ing better be or you'll see me cut mine up with a milwaukee porta-band.
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    Lets hope so

    They should keep the rear travel at 155mm, slack out the HA to 67, raise the BB a 1/2". Make the ISCG tab a modular bolt on (like Knolly) so you can remove it if you want, add cable routing for a dropper post. They should also look at trying to trim the fat and make it an AM machine, surely they could scrub 1/2 lb off it. Maybe go 12x142 in the rear? Low, slack, shorter travel (ie. 150-160mm) bikes are where its at for all mountain shredding. Then they need to make a FR bike with at least 170mm of travel, 180 would be prefect. 65/66 HA, 13.5" BB, full 1.5" steerer so you can use angle sets. Shoot for a 9-10 lb frame weight with a coil shock. Definitely a 12x142 or 12x150 rear end. That would be a FR ripper, kinda a mini DH bike.

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    140mm 29er announcment at Sea Otter is what's throwing me.. they called it an EG

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    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    FR bike with at least 170mm of travel, 180 would be prefect. 65/66 HA, 13.5" BB, full 1.5" steerer so you can use angle sets. Shoot for a 9-10 lb frame weight with a coil shock. Definitely a 12x142 or 12x150 rear end. That would be a FR ripper, kinda a mini DH bike.
    This^^ is kind of what I started thinking from what little info Ben was allowed to spill for the spring time announcement.. Came away thinkin' little over 7.5lbs large frame. 66º 1.5 HT w/ gussets, 12mm rear @ 170 FR~shredder

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    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    They should also look at trying to trim the fat and make it an AM machine, surely they could scrub 1/2 lb off it. Maybe go 12x142 in the rear? Low, slack, shorter travel (ie. 150-160mm) bikes are where its at for all mountain shredding.
    Yep...this would suit me fine. 145-150mm travel, 67 HA, 13.5"BB (or lower?) would be great. Sort of EG lite, or bring back the Motolite to sit between FTM and EG. I think there's a niche for lower slacker bike that are lighter....for riders who like to climb, like the tech, and want to descend fast but will likely never put the bike in the air...at least not very much.

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    Why not send the EG more towards DH and build the FTM into more of an little brother for the EG and a big brother of the race-x?

    I don;t really see a need to change the rear of the eg to another hub spec. Mine is stiff enough with a ck fun bolt rear hub.

    I'd like to see titus build a specialized stumpy killer and something with a coil shock from the factory.

    As for measurments on the EG I'd like to see a taller BB for rough sections ( I like to stay on the gass on the DH's) and maybe less of a ridge on the top tube (have slid off and hist my junk on that edge once.) I'd even go so far as to drop it back to a taper headtube for a bit of weight savings. Especially since no one is building forks with straight 1.5 steerers.
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    Motolite was a great bike, it should be resurrected. Names aside, I think slightly raising the BB would be a good thing although I havent had a single pedal strike since I went to 170mm cranks and the RT3, the bike rides much higher in its travel now and I think pedal strikes will be reduced with a shock that actually does its job. I think going with a thru axle rear is a must, it is the trend and the new 12x142 is supposed to be very quick to install the wheel, actually faster then a QR. Most of the higher end hubs have axle conversions to go 12x142. While they are at it, why not post mount rear brake mounts? They could also do an adjustable HA via the adjustable front shock mount (ala knolly).

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    Craig, you just summed up every bit of changes I hope to see.

    ...Not that the fun bolts don't work but 142 rear is really more of a future-proofing looking at the trend of things.

    One little thing...if they can just drop the height of the top tube by a little, that would be perfect.. Kinda hard to run little or no spacers under stem with brake levers positioned downwards and not hitting the tubing when turned

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    why not post mount rear brake mounts?
    Because they add weight. Unless you run threads straight into the frame (that can strip rather easy) an insert like turner does adds more weight than an i.s. standard mount with adapter.

    ...Not that the fun bolts don't work but 142 rear is really more of a future-proofing looking at the trend of things.
    It's a good idea but until I see CK make a 142 hub I just don't see the point. Most hubs that are being used still have the same flange spacing and just run an "adapter" axle to widen them to meet the drop outs. Unless something like a moto style drop out is used (axle surrounded 360* inside the drop out) I don't see any big increases in usefullness or rigidity.

    The idea of the wider dropouts is to increase the size of the triangle that the spokes make at the flanges and at the nipples. When you use a hub that isn't any wider at the flanges you're just adding weight. Or making new parts so people can justify a new frame/bike/wheelset.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeerhillJDOG View Post
    Ben was the only person I've spoken to about the new ride, hinted at spring time. Now that he's no longer with Titus..

    *¿will there be a new El Guapo 26er?
    We are working on it. The EG 26" is not going away and there are updates in the plans.
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrible View Post
    The idea of the wider dropouts is to increase the size of the triangle that the spokes make at the flanges and at the nipples. When you use a hub that isn't any wider at the flanges you're just adding weight. Or making new parts so people can justify a new frame/bike/wheelset.


    Wouldn't Hadley/King need to wait for the 142 frames first before making a new hub?

    142mm frame w/ adapters> once that picks up widen flanges and ditch adapters

    If flanges eventually widen, my question would be w/ the bb width. This trickle down gonna snowball more delays..We need some sort of MTB roundtable, all the big wigs can sit down and get the MF ball rolling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeerhillJDOG View Post
    Wouldn't Hadley/King need to wait for the 142 frames first before making a new hub?

    142mm frame w/ adapters> once that picks up widen flanges and ditch adapters

    If flanges eventually widen, my question would be w/ the bb width. This trickle down gonna snowball more delays..We need some sort of MTB roundtable, all the big wigs can sit down and get the MF ball rolling.
    The 142/12 hubs do nothing to increase the hub flange spacing. All of the width increase is outside of the axle ends. Cassette and rotor spacing from the centerline is the same as a 135 hub.
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    I think its a great concept. I for one am bummed that I had to settle for a Knolly Delirium with standard 10x135 rear. The new model will have 12x142 but wont be available till fall!
    http://www.syntace.com/index.cfm?pid=1&pk=1314

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    Just looked at their PDF, didn't know there's a sort of shelf on the inside of the frame.. takes up 3.5mm on the drive side.

    Not sure their PDF is accurate. Looks like special lockring for the cassette would be the only way to get more room.. if there would eventually be a possibility to widen the hub.

    *larger diameter freehub could do it too
    Last edited by J:; 05-28-2011 at 02:29 PM.

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    They could standardize the rear derailluer hanger too. Wouldnt that be cool if you could by a 12x142 hanger at any shop? As far as the PM rear brake mounts go, there may be extra weight involved in the frame but you lose an adapter and two bolts/washers. Pretty much a wash in the weight department but they should definitely heli coil the threads so stripped mounts would never be an issue. Maybe the extra room on the drive side would allow for a 9 or 10 tooth cog? I think 1x10 is the future but you need to be able to run a 30-32 tooth front sprocket with a 9 or 10 tooth rear to have a full range of gearing. I love my new 2x10 drivetrain with MRP XCG guide but I have dropped the chain a couple of times with the lack of a bashring for retention, it happens when I back-pedal while in the large ring.

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    They could standardize the rear derailluer hanger too.
    I doubt they would do that. Then you wouldn't have to get them from the OEM manufacturer. Cuts them out of a few bucks.
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    Hey Terrible, do you work in a shop or something? You seem so knowledgeable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    They could standardize the rear derailluer hanger too. Wouldnt that be cool if you could by a 12x142 hanger at any shop? As far as the PM rear brake mounts go, there may be extra weight involved in the frame but you lose an adapter and two bolts/washers. Pretty much a wash in the weight department but they should definitely heli coil the threads so stripped mounts would never be an issue. Maybe the extra room on the drive side would allow for a 9 or 10 tooth cog? I think 1x10 is the future but you need to be able to run a 30-32 tooth front sprocket with a 9 or 10 tooth rear to have a full range of gearing. I love my new 2x10 drivetrain with MRP XCG guide but I have dropped the chain a couple of times with the lack of a bashring for retention, it happens when I back-pedal while in the large ring.
    Many of the 142/12 frames, from several different companies, I saw at interbike last year appeared to use the same hanger. The mounting bolt also clamps the threaded insert for the through axle in place.
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    Maybe the extra room on the drive side would allow for a 9 or 10 tooth cog? I think 1x10 is the future but you need to be able to run a 30-32 tooth front sprocket with a 9 or 10 tooth rear to have a full range of gearing.
    Extra gears for 1x, good idea for 26er. Or taller flanges to reinforce BIG gears w/ more cassette range for 1x.

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    Not extra gears but a 9-36 cassette would be perfect with a 30 tooth front chainring

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    30 36 I would need hulk legs

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    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    ...raise the BB a 1/2".
    Gross.
    Extreme stationary biker.

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    The 142/12 hubs do nothing to increase the hub flange spacing. All of the width increase is outside of the axle ends. Cassette and rotor spacing from the centerline is the same as a 135 hub.
    They are SUPPOSED to increase the hub flange spacing in the future. Right now everyone is tossing conversion axles into existing hubs to get people to buy new frames. Then in the next year it'll be new wheelsets.

    From what I've seen specialized roval wheels are the only onse making use of wider hub flanges.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by craigstr
    ...raise the BB a 1/2".

    Gross
    Jigga what? Please do increase the BB height! I'd love to have the same 14.3" bb my enduro had on the EG.

    Hey Terrible, do you work in a shop or something? You seem so knowledgeable.
    I've been known to spend some time at the shop. Hope to have my own place in a year or two so keep your eye out in the vendors section
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by craigstr
    ...raise the BB a 1/2".

    _________
    Quote Originally Posted by geolover View Post
    Gross.

    1/2" via adjustable BB height no gross= extra thick cut bacon

    adjustable

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    Wow Shiggy....that the highest Rep Power I've seen yet!

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    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    Wow Shiggy....that the highest Rep Power I've seen yet!
    You can trust me.



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    Well

    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    You can trust me.



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    I really dont know what rep power is so a higher number could be bad.

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    Think about how long it would take to click a mouse 38,351 times. Dude, that's worse than a world of warcraft addiction. Do you live in your mom's basement or something?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Velveeta View Post
    Think about how long it would take to click a mouse 38,351 times. Dude, that's worse than a world of warcraft addiction. Do you live in your mom's basement or something?
    I have been on this site for 12 years and it is part of my job.

    And I have little life outside of biked.


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    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    I really dont know what rep power is so a higher number could be bad.
    Rep Power is explained in the announcement link currently at the top of each board


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    Quote Originally Posted by DeerhillJDOG
    extra thick cut bacon
    extra thick cut bacon is pretty good.
    Extreme stationary biker.

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    no retort on living in your mom's basement eh? enjoy your drop bars dude. you're hardcore!

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    [QUOTE=craigstr;8088078]Motolite was a great bike, it should be resurrected. QUOTE]

    I agree, as long as they don't make it into the FTM. The ML is/was consider a light AM bike, something the FTM is not. The FTM is more of a long travel X.
    If I disagree with you, it's because you are wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Velveeta View Post
    no retort on living in your mom's basement eh? enjoy your drop bars dude. you're hardcore!
    Mom does not have a basement.

    I have a van at the trailhead.


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    CK already makes a 142x12 axle, getting it is another story but they do make it.

    http://www.aspirevelotech.com/Mercha...=CK-REAR-AXLES

    I do think that 142 is definitely the way to go, since I do like stiffness my fun bolts provide but do miss the convenience of a rear QR.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundowner View Post
    CK already makes a 142x12 axle, getting it is another story but they do make it.

    http://www.aspirevelotech.com/Mercha...=CK-REAR-AXLES

    I do think that 142 is definitely the way to go, since I do like stiffness my fun bolts provide but do miss the convenience of a rear QR.
    142/12 is not a QR. It requires no tools but is not fast.


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  38. #38
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    Quicker then fun bolts!

    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    142/12 is not a QR. It requires no tools but is not fast.


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    Fun Bolts or the Hope version are a PIA. Probably the quickest is the DT Swiss RWS.

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    Fun Bolts or the Hope version are a PIA. Probably the quickest is the DT Swiss RWS.
    A bit off topic but how the FUDGE are fun bolts a pain in the ass? Does your multi-tool not have an 8mm? How hard is it to toss a cheap L bend allen in your camelback.
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    Fun Bolts or the Hope version are a PIA. Probably the quickest is the DT Swiss RWS.
    The quickest is a standard QR (includes the few cam action 10mm through bolt skewers). Open the lever. Wheel drops out.

    Not counting the time to get out the wrench, the bolt-on hubs are faster to loosen/tighten than using a 142 through axle.


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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    142/12 is not a QR. It requires no tools but is not fast.


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    What would you call the level thingy on the axle? Maybe a level screw release, eventhought it has the same function as a front QR. I am talking about the conviniece of not using a tool.
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    You know Terrible...

    Quote Originally Posted by terrible View Post
    A bit off topic but how the FUDGE are fun bolts a pain in the ass? Does your multi-tool not have an 8mm? How hard is it to toss a cheap L bend allen in your camelback.
    people are allowed to have a different opinion then you, as soon as you accept that fact you will stop getting so offended everytime somebody posts something against your grain. I have them on my Knolly Delirium and when I work on it in the stand its a PIA to get the rear wheel in and both bolts tightened. The DT Swiss you can just slam the wheel in and tighten the ratchet side, its easier then a standard QR. Same thing with most thru axles. line up the wheel and axle, tighten it and you are done, probably not fast for XC racers but fast enough for most people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundowner View Post
    What would you call the level thingy on the axle? Maybe a level screw release, eventhought it has the same function as a front QR.
    You still have to completely unscrew the axle from the frame and remove the axle from the hub.

    With a QR you open the skewer lever and the wheel drops out of the dropouts.

    The 15mm "QR" forks are not really quick release either.


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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    You still have to completely unscrew the axle from the frame and remove the axle from the hub.

    With a QR you open the skewer lever and the wheel drops out of the dropouts.

    The 15mm "QR" forks are not really quick release either.


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    That what Shimano call it,
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundowner View Post
    That what Shimano call it,
    Yes, but it is not accurate. More properly a tool-free through axle.


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  46. #46
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    All that useful info Shiggy and your rep power didnt go up? WTF?

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    I work on it in the stand its a PIA to get the rear wheel in and both bolts tightened.
    I agree with you 100% there. I usually pull the wheel in the stand, do the work, then just toss the wheel back in the drop outs just tight enough to get it out of the stand without the wheel falling out, then I tighten all the way down.

    people are allowed to have a different opinion then you, as soon as you accept that fact you will stop getting so offended everytime somebody posts something against your grain.
    Offended? I don't get offended at people who post thier opinion. It's when that opinion is to be taken as "fact" that I get offended.

    And I did "agree with you" on the raising the bottom bracket.

    Like my wife tells me "you've stated your opinion, you're wrong, now shut up"
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    terrible works at a bike shop. he forgot to mention that in his last post.

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    missed post somehow

    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    We are working on it. The EG 26" is not going away and there are updates in the plans.
    hmm Ti ML first.. . ?
    Last edited by J:; 05-30-2011 at 11:02 PM.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrible View Post
    They are SUPPOSED to increase the hub flange spacing in the future. Right now everyone is tossing conversion axles into existing hubs to get people to buy new frames. Then in the next year it'll be new wheelsets.

    From what I've seen specialized roval wheels are the only onse making use of wider hub flanges..
    You are misunderstanding the design.

    With the existing 142/12 dropout spec the cassette can not be moved outboard, which is necessary to move the drive side hub flange out. Plenty of room to move the disc side flange out on any hub, but that does not decrease dish.

    The dropout/cassette clearance is the same with 135QR hubs/frames and 142/12 hubs/frames and that is the limiting factor. If you get rid of the dropout pocket/shelf to gain clearance you eliminate the main reason 142 was developed.
    mtbtires.com
    The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common

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