DORBA - Is it down?

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  • 03-08-2012
    chas_martel
    DORBA - Is it down?
    I can log in but see no forums. I can see trails page.

    Another person at work can't even log in.

    Anyone else having problems?
  • 03-08-2012
    clewttu
    yes, its down...very regular occurence, anytime you have issues like you mention, its down
  • 03-08-2012
    chas_martel
    I can't decide if the fiasco known as dorba.org is funny or sad.
  • 03-12-2012
    bbbicycles
    Dorba 3.0 is supposed to be right around the corner.
  • 03-12-2012
    chas_martel
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bbbicycles View Post
    Dorba 3.0 is supposed to be right around the corner.

    SO what?

    They hired a "design" firm. How is it going to be deployed? Maintained? Backed up? What of fail over handing?

    Do you remember Dorba 1.0? It was vastly more reliable.

    But like my sig says.............................
  • 03-15-2012
    phatphil
  • 03-15-2012
    DeeEffDub
    Pretty pathetic for one of the largest MTB organizations...anyone know the eta of 3.0?
  • 03-16-2012
    clewttu
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DeeEffDub View Post
    Pretty pathetic for one of the largest MTB organizations...anyone know the eta of 3.0?

    its not like its a moneymaking organization, it lives off donated money and time...big deal, get over it
  • 03-16-2012
    DeeEffDub
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by clewttu View Post
    its not like its a moneymaking organization, it lives off donated money and time...big deal, get over it

    Moneymaking or not, the organization exist to support off-road biking in DFW. The main way DORBA does this is by providing information and updates through their website. If that doesn't work, then what is the point of me paying dues?

    I am sure there are other great things DORBA does with the dues collections from the 1000+ members, but would argue that nothing should be more important than spending that revenue on establishing a site that's more stable.
  • 03-16-2012
    clewttu
    the trails are the absolute first thing and most important thing, period, its absurd to think a website is more important...just be glad dorba has such a nice website, its not like its down ll the time, its intermittent and isnt the only avenue for trail updates (which i assume is what you are upset about, as everything else is trivial at best)

    if you guys are so perturbed by it, i suggest you get off your ass and do something about it...but you wont, youll just cry like spoiled children

    im also very doubtful there are 1000+ members
  • 03-16-2012
    DeeEffDub
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by clewttu View Post
    the trails are the absolute first thing and most important thing, period, its absurd to think a website is more important...just be glad dorba has such a nice website, its not like its down ll the time, its intermittent and isnt the only avenue for trail updates (which i assume is what you are upset about, as everything else is trivial at best)

    if you guys are so perturbed by it, i suggest you get off your ass and do something about it...but you wont, youll just cry like spoiled children

    im also very doubtful there are 1000+ members

    Hate to break it to you..but DORBA doesn't build or maintain trails, it's members do and for the most part they do it for free! I know, I volunteer and I'm out there cleaning and working the trails unpaid, on my time off, with my own equipment so that I and others can have trails to ride.

    DORBA provides a key function as a facilitator and its main tool to coordinate trail support and information is their website. Without that tool, the organization likely doesn't exist (as you said, other avenues exist).
  • 03-16-2012
    clewttu
    Umm yeah dude, Dorba, the volunteer nonprofit organization, does build and maintain trails....you ever ridden Big Cedar? the trail that was just built a couple years ago and is constantly expanding? thank Dorba and Shadow
    Have you ever eaten the free food/drink, used the tools, supplies etc out there while you are volunteering on work days?

    Volunteers (that have lives and jobs outside of Dorba) also run the website, if you are so sure that this is a major issue that shouldn't be happening, why dont you volunteer to help with the web design and hosting of the website instead of working on trails? sounds like you could make pretty simple work of it

    Dorba can exist without a website, keep up the entitled attitude though for your 25 bucks a year though
  • 03-16-2012
    DeeEffDub
    Here are a couple quotes from the EOY December DORBA board meeting:

    "YTD we have paid over 4k for the website. The only thing more expensive is insurance which is 5k for the year."

    If DORBA doesn't think the website is the highest priority then why is one of the largest single line items the website? I was wrong, insurance is #1, website #2 for obvious reasons.

    "Membership report - Gina: 1655 total members."

    It's way over 1000...I should have said 1500+.

    And yes, I guess I'm entitled if I think a non-profit volunteer organization that collects roughly $25k a year in dues should have a working website or at the bare minimum a designated alternative.

    My fundamental issue with Dorba is that they need to spend less money on race events that lose money(which the vast majority of their members don't participate) and more on a working website and trail support for the everyday riders.
  • 03-16-2012
    clewttu
    Because websites are not cheap regardless of their priority, they cost what they cost (besides, its only listed as the 2nd highest single item expense, not the #2 priority, there is a difference)...its also funny you didnt mention this nugget directly following what you quoted "Our trail maintenance and advocacy is about 60% of our budget", safe to assume 60% is more than $4000...does that move the website down to a #3 priority by your logic?

    Dorba does have a website that works, you are acting like its shutdown, its down AT MOST a couple hours a day, boo hoo...and they are working on a remedy, which costs money and time

    good to know that many people support Dorba with their wallets, so either help with the website yourself or stop donating to an organization you think is misappropriating its resources for what is your most important priority...crying helps no one

    for your reading pleasure
  • 03-18-2012
    willawry'd
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by clewttu View Post
    Dorba does have a website that works, you are acting like its shutdown, its down AT MOST a couple hours a day, boo hoo...and they are working on a remedy, which costs money and time

    I now only check the site for trail conditions and to log my trail hours and it seems to be down more than not for me...but maybe it's just my timing.

    Off-line again.
  • 03-19-2012
    nramey
    Hi There! I work at Yeti Cycles and we are currently building a AS-R Carbon Brand Ambassador XC Team. We have a stong following in our native Colorado but are looking to work with some strong age-group mtb racers in a few key areas and Texas is one of them.
    Let me know if you're interested in getting more information/applying for the team!
    Yeti Team Manager
  • 03-19-2012
    odtexas
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nramey View Post
    Hi There! I work at Yeti Cycles and we are currently building a AS-R Carbon Brand Ambassador XC Team. We have a stong following in our native Colorado but are looking to work with some strong age-group mtb racers in a few key areas and Texas is one of them.
    Let me know if you're interested in getting more information/applying for the team!
    Yeti Team Manager

    You might want to post this over at the Dorba.org site if/when it is working again. There are two racing forums. Not sure why there is two, but if we need that many racing forums we must have alot of racers.:skep::confused:
  • 03-23-2012
    marpilli
    Pissing match aside, does anyone know if there are target dates for bringing the new site on-line?
  • 03-23-2012
    clewttu
    there are, they hired an outside company....i think its about a month out? but youd have to check the post on Dorba to be sure
  • 03-23-2012
    marpilli
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by clewttu View Post
    there are, they hired an outside company....i think its about a month out? but youd have to check the post on Dorba to be sure

    Thank you. I'll go hunting for it when I have the chance.
  • 03-23-2012
    clewttu
    there might be more info, this was from the front page

    "At our February meeting, the DORBA Board of Directors voted unanimously to hire DarkSpire Media to build DORBA 3.0. The new site will incorporate existing features such as our forums and trail pages, but it will also have some new and exciting add-ons as well. We expect to be up and running in about 60 days.

    We appreciate your patience with our existing site in the interim, which as you may have noticed, has been experiencing some downtime. As we are moving forward with a new site, we are only allocating the bare minimum of resources to maintenance of the existing site, and some features have been disabled.

    As soon as the development site is up, we will need some of you to assist in the test phase of the project, so stay tuned!

    If you have any questions, comments or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact me directly."
  • 05-10-2012
    Wildeyes
    Been down for 2 straight days now. With the rain that has hit in that time, having a working website would be nice. Stop scolding people for wondering what is going on. It is sad really. Largest MTB groups in the world, quote from their own facebook page, seems to imply that they could deal with having a website that is accessible rather than what it is right now. I pay my dues to DORBA every year, and I expect the website to at least be working to indicate closures, canceled races, etc. DORBA should update facebook page with what the issues are rather than telling people to just shut up and deal. Not a good way to get membership numbers to increase.
  • 05-10-2012
    clewttu
    its not been down for 2 straight days, as ive been on it today and yesterday, been down for about 2 hours now off and on today...trails are open, as they have been for a while now
  • 05-10-2012
    marpilli
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by clewttu View Post
    its not been down for 2 straight days, as ive been on it today and yesterday, been down for about 2 hours now off and on today.

    Unfortunately, the customer's perception is reality. I'm in the same boat as the other guy. Every time I've tried to access dorba.org over the last couple of days it has not been available.

    I wonder when the new site will be ready?
  • 05-10-2012
    clewttu
    id say go look in the website forum..but :p
  • 05-10-2012
    marpilli
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by clewttu View Post
    id say go look in the website forum..but :p

    :thumbsup:
  • 05-10-2012
    knoxpossum
    Based on a facebook post, the DORBA site is basically down and out. I think the new and improved version goes live sometime next week (May 15th?).
  • 05-10-2012
    clewttu
    nice, dont have a facebook acct so wasnt able to see the redirect
  • 05-10-2012
    WrecklessREX
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by clewttu View Post
    nice, dont have a facebook acct so wasnt able to see the redirect


    Same here...
  • 05-10-2012
    Knight511
    I wish they would just do away with the forums (if that was the problem)... trail conditions are the most important thing there for me :(
  • 05-10-2012
    Buadyen
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by knoxpossum View Post
    Based on a facebook post, the DORBA site is basically down and out. I think the new and improved version goes live sometime next week (May 15th?).

    This was later clarified in the same thread to state that no definite go-live date for the new site has been made public.
  • 05-10-2012
    PoisonDartFrog
    Calm the h3ll down, it's just a transitional phase. FYI, the www.dorba.org URL has been temporarily redirected to new DORBA Meetup site, which asks for patience until the new website goes live.

    FWIW, I am not a DORBA trail steward or board member, but if you feel like you can run things better than they are currently being run, you can always volunteer your services. Personally I am just thankful that I live in an area where there are so many folks with the time and passion to devote to the sport.

    PS also meant to write that I travel a lot on biz, and there are very few areas in the country that have as many local trails or is as active as DORBA.
  • 05-10-2012
    odtexas
    Experienced and qualified people have volunteered to help but were turned down. Repeatedly......
  • 05-10-2012
    odtexas
    Rain is coming.
    Looks to be hit and miss and no one came up with a back up plan on how to keep trail conditions updated.
    We have our little thread here.
    A few trail stewards do email me directly. Thank you guy's for supporting riders access to open trails.
    Anyone who knows if a trail should be opened or closed over the next 24/48 hours please post up on the trail conditions thread.
  • 05-10-2012
    PoisonDartFrog
    I can check Arbor Hills - I live nearby
  • 05-10-2012
    odtexas
    That would be awesome. Thanks....
  • 05-10-2012
    marpilli
    Yeah, she's down for the count...

    Quote:

    Welcome to the temporary home of DORBA.org. The old site finally ran into problems that keep it from being able to handle the load. Nothing is lost. But there is signifcant work to do to get the assets where folks can harvest them.

    Right now we need as many of the DORBA leadership to register so they can be given rights to edit and ad pages, etc. to help keep everyone informed.
    Where will I get my Classifieds fix? CL just doesn't cut it anymore. I'm jonesing already... :)
  • 05-11-2012
    clewttu
    nm.
  • 05-11-2012
    PoisonDartFrog
    Dorba seems to be itermittantly redirecting to either Facebook, or a "Meetup" based site. Is the Meetup site the "new" site. or is it temporary?
  • 05-11-2012
    odtexas
    temp, just like dorba 2.0
    :D
  • 05-25-2012
    chas_martel
    Down again!
  • 05-25-2012
    chas_martel
    Down again!
  • 05-25-2012
    clewttu
    seriously clark? its been killed for like a week now while the new site is being finished up
  • 05-25-2012
    CajunJamie
    DORBA is up. It's the Texas power grid that goes down stealthily to make it look like DORBA's fault. ;-)
  • 05-29-2012
    WrecklessREX
    Whats up DORBA?
  • 06-13-2012
    Wildeyes
    DORBA answers every single question asked with the statement, "Why don't you volunteer?". For a club that brags about being the largest in the country, it sure is very secretive, as well as always displaying a nasty "chip" or their shoulder when people point out the obvious about certain aspects of the club. Why can't DORBA be more informative to it's paying members who volunteer, i am one of these people. The attitude DORBA projects has declined over the last ten years, and it sucks right now. All members want are updates to when the wbsite will be up. If the company they are paying can't even give a timeline of completion, then you hired the wrong group to piece your new site together.
  • 06-13-2012
    clewttu
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wildeyes View Post
    If the company they are paying can't even give a timeline of completion, then you hired the wrong group to piece your new site together.

    yup, really bad business from both parties...incompetency in handling contractual work id imagine
    i think the other stuff/frustration is cuz most people never go to the meetings where things are generally discussed, not sure tho
  • 06-23-2012
    Knight511
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by clewttu View Post
    i think the other stuff/frustration is cuz most people never go to the meetings where things are generally discussed, not sure tho

    This. I went to the June meeting to find out what was going on and learned quite a bit.... some by what was said and some by what wasn't. I didn't feel like I was given a cold shoulder (NOBODY knew me) and was welcomed pretty well.
  • 06-23-2012
    brewrider
    FYI, DORBA people recently posted on the temporary forums that they are estimating the new site will be online in four more weeks.
  • 06-24-2012
    mark!
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wildeyes View Post
    DORBA answers every single question asked with the statement, "Why don't you volunteer?". For a club that brags about being the largest in the country, it sure is very secretive, as well as always displaying a nasty "chip" or their shoulder when people point out the obvious about certain aspects of the club. Why can't DORBA be more informative to it's paying members who volunteer, i am one of these people. The attitude DORBA projects has declined over the last ten years, and it sucks right now. All members want are updates to when the wbsite will be up. If the company they are paying can't even give a timeline of completion, then you hired the wrong group to piece your new site together.

    On the meet up site, there have been many people, myself included, offer to build and host a site, myself offered for 3 months no cost. I understand they already have a developer, but I don't know of any reputable developer that wouldn't cut ties because they weren't holding up their end of the deal. Then again, if it were a reputable developer, we'd probably already have a site up and running. As for the people at RCP, they've been nothing but awesome. I haven't branched out too much to others in DORBA though. I won't be a paying member with the false promise of a website that's so far overdue it's just gotten to a certain point of stupid.
  • 06-28-2012
    dalallmon
    Since DORBA is down, I have a question for you Dallas folks. I will be traveling this weekend from Tyler to check out the Wee-Chi-Tah trail. On my way I'd like to stop and hit something up in Dallas. So far the only two trails in that area I have ridden have been Rowlett and Big Cedar. Based on the route Google gave me, it looks like I will be going right by LB Houston Park off of 183. I can't find a lot of info on it and wanted to know if it would be a good place to check out. Mapwise the North Shore trail isn't too far of a detour, but I know how things can be traffic-wise in the suburbs. I also wouldn't be opposed to staying on I-20 and doing one of the other trails further south. I know there's a race Saturday night at Boulder Park. Anyways, any suggestions would be welcomed.
  • 06-28-2012
    odtexas
    LBH is fairly flat. Part of the Trinity River flood plain as is the River Legacy trail. If you like that sort of thing then it is worth hitting.
    If you prefered Big Cedar to Rowlett then Northshore would be a better choice. Northshore is alot more interesting with challenging section of climbs and rocks.
  • 06-28-2012
    dalallmon
    Definitely had a lot more fun at Big Cedar. Would North Shore be a pain to get to on a Saturday morning? Also, what trail head would you recommend? It looks like there are several in a few different areas. Thanks for the info.
  • 06-28-2012
    odtexas
    Saturday morning might be a little busy unless you get out there early. With the heat people may be staying away. The Rockledge trail head isn't all that exciting. You might be better off with the Murrell Park/Twin Coves area.
  • 06-28-2012
    clewttu
    yeah, if you are taking 114 (thats the way google maps routed me tyler>wf) then youll run just south of lake grapevine, northshore @ the madd shelter is basically the center point between the more difficult west side and the easier eastside...bring plenty of water
    another option on the south side of the lake is horseshoe, but if you can only do one, hit NS
  • 06-29-2012
    clewttu
    FYI, this trails page was posted on the temp site
  • 06-29-2012
    mtbscott
    I like both LBH (it has nostalgic value to me since it was the trail I rode my first bike (demo) on back in 1996) and North Shore, but they're quite different and I would pick NS first. I did have one bad experience a couple of years ago. I went with local friends and we parked at the Rockledge Park trailhead. Came back after a lap to find our car broken into and were told it wasn't the first time.
    Went there about a month ago with the same folks, this time we parked at the MADD shelter lot which was a lot more trafficked and more secure. We did a full loop headed east to Rockledge, then another half loop. One of the trail's nice features is that it headed east it crosses lots of roads where you can turn around and head back the other direction without having to do the full loop.
  • 07-10-2012
    Crapulence
    Does anyone know if there is an ETA for the new DORBA site? Their trail status page is invaluable during the wetter seasons. No worry about that right now though.
  • 07-10-2012
    marpilli
    This is as good as it gets for now:
    Area Trails and Conditions | Dallas Trails

    The most recent update I know of was posted here on June 18th.
    Quote:

    I had a long talk with David Nelke this weekend. There are several reasons for the delay in providing the new website. He and his partner had a lot of difficulty with the database and had to purchase software to overcome the problems they were experiencing trying to utilize the data. By their own admission, they spent too much time trying to solve the data problem before purchasing the necessary software. At the same time Darkspire had a change and a reduction in personnel causing an even greater delay. In an effort to rectify the personnel problem two more developers joined the production last Friday. They began work on the project this weekend. It sounds like it will be at least 4 weeks before the website can be released but Darkspire is working hard to clean up the problems and produce the website. David is as upset about the delay as the we are and I ask for your continued patience. Please continue to use the DORBA meetup site for information and comments.

    Pam J. Jackson
    DORBA President
  • 07-10-2012
    Crapulence
    Thanks for the update, I'm a dorba member but only use the site for trail status updates. It looks like it would be a good time to donate some more to a very worthy cause.
  • 07-10-2012
    Crapulence
    I should add that work,weather,vacation, and home bs has kept me off the trails for almost 6 months. Finding the old DORBA site down was a shock, in retaliation I decided to crack a seat stay last Friday. It seems that my riding hiatus will require some added angle iron to support my ass.
  • 07-11-2012
    marpilli
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Crapulence View Post
    I should add that work,weather,vacation, and home bs has kept me off the trails for almost 6 months. Finding the old DORBA site down was a shock, in retaliation I decided to crack a seat stay last Friday. It seems that my riding hiatus will require some added angle iron to support my ass.

    Now, that's funny. :lol:

    Jumping back onto my bike for the first time in three weeks yesterday (traveling and then vacation). First thing I noticed was I'm twitchy in the corners and those long climbs just go easier in the next lower gear. :) I can't imagine 6 months. Good luck to you....

    What area of DFW are you in?
  • 07-11-2012
    marpilli
    Also, I forgot about the thread on here that odtexas is maintaining. Jump to the last post in the thread and work backwards for the current conditions.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/texas/dallas-...ns-766708.html
  • 07-11-2012
    Crapulence
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by marpilli View Post
    Now, that's funny. :lol:

    Jumping back onto my bike for the first time in three weeks yesterday (traveling and then vacation). First thing I noticed was I'm twitchy in the corners and those long climbs just go easier in the next lower gear. :) I can't imagine 6 months. Good luck to you....

    What area of DFW are you in?

    I live in Flower Mound, so I usually go on the Northshore trail, if I'm really motivated I ride there for a 5 mile warmup / warmdown.
  • 07-11-2012
    Crapulence
    Oh and thanks for the trail condition link, we got some much needed rain last night hopefully it will get rid of many of the loose areas.
  • 07-20-2012
    chas_martel
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Crapulence View Post
    Does anyone know if there is an ETA for the new DORBA site? Their trail status page is invaluable during the wetter seasons. No worry about that right now though.

    This guy is pretty big in my books for being so direct. A welcome relief to read so much honesty over the issue.

    http://www.dorba.org/messages/boards/thread/25171712/10



    ================================================== =========


    It is with great disappointment I must let the membership know that I can not finish the website at this time.

    This project was very dear to me as a biker and a member of DORBA I have had a hard time with this and have made every effort to fulfill the contract. I again apologize for all the issues it has caused.

    There has been much discourse over this project and I will try to answer some questions below.
    Do not take this or the below as excuses just the facts that many have been asking for (some of this is a repeat of my last post).


    I have personally had to dissolve my partnership with DarkSpire Media (DSM) due to the developers lack of fulfillment with DORBA as well as my other clients. This is the first time in six (6) years we have failed to deliver and deliver on time.



    DarkSpire Media works on projects around our full time jobs. We decided to bid on this project based on a few factors:
    1. We bid a low price on the DORBA project as my way to 'give something back' to the biking community
    2. We would pull the existing SQL database over
    3. We would use an add-on for an existing program DORBA had
    4. Compatibility was researched and all pieces should work together
    5. Timeline was based on personnel and certain points discussed with the board


    Money:
    To date DSM was paid $1000. I will personally refund this money to DORBA.
    To date I have personally added over $6000 to try and get this site finished.


    Major Events?
    1. The existing program requested by DORBA was found to have many issues and the major factor in site speed. A decision was reached to replace it, which caused new research and compatibility questions that needed to be addressed.

    2. There were numerous issues with the SQL Database and it's tables. The old DB had in excess of 250 tables that did not export out correctly because of the old software. This old info did not import into the new CRM without a lot of tweaking and database combining.

    3. DSM suddenly lost developers due to their new gains in employment

    4. A total of four (4) developers were brought in and paid to get the site up (at different times). They did not fulfill their obligations and were not retained.

    5. A fifth WP Guru was found and was getting the project back on schedule. Shortly after he was brought on he had medical issues and was rushed to the hospital. Due to these issues he could not fulfill his obligations.

    6. This brings us current and me without a developer or development team at this time.

    7. Based on the extension from the original timeline DSM was approximately two (2) months behind schedule.



    This was not a simple site with a skin. This was a complete corporate solution.

    Membership Management
    Event Management
    Race Organization/Results
    Trail Management
    Trail/Volunteer hours
    Trail Days
    GPX mapping and tagging for trail stewards
    Interactive mapping
    Social Integration
    Find a Ride
    Weather
    Albums
    Sponsorships
    Classifieds
    Job Board
    iPhone App
    IPad App
    Droid App
    Ability for different roles throughout the site where anyone (that is in the role) can easily edit/update their areas without being a programmer or going through a complicated backed process.
    …and more


    The site is still sitting at approximately 70-75% completion. If there is a WordPress development company that is willing to take it over I would be glad to work with them to switch files over as well as anything else they would need.

    Notes on some key components
    Site: WordPress
    Forum: bbPress
    Social: BuddyPress
    CRM: WP-CRM
    Event Management: Event Expresso
    PhP
    CSS
    JS
    ++



    I again apologize to the membership.






    A few more specific notes here on MU to address the above posts:

    1. The contract stated that either party can severe the relationship at any time. DSM does not have to pay back any payments collected. I didn't take this job for the money but to try and give something back to the community. I am 'personally' refunding DORBA's $1000 payment out of principle.

    2. @Alex - you are out of line.
    A. We completed numerous sites in WP including more recently, Boy's Life Boys' Life magazine... and certain PepsiCo sites.
    There are numerous platforms however WordPress would work the best for what we were trying to do.
    The rest of the argument is a Chevy vs. Ford or Mac vs. PC argument. There are pros and cons on every platform.

    B. Yes, we could have thrown a POS CMS up in days. The site we were developing is much more.

    C. Feel free to link me your NYC friends as I have worked with some of the largest agencies in the nation. If they are accomplished I should know their agency. I hold numerous design awards in advertising, marketing, packaging, design and have been published.
    Just a few of my client list include:
    I Love Lucy
    Mattel - Hot Wheels
    Byron Nelson
    Superbowl
    PepsiCo
    Brinker International
    Brinkmann
    Fender Guitar
    …plus many more

    I have even taught design classes at UNT, where you attend.

    3. @Mike - Yes, you are right on the slipping dates. As stated above we had specific criteria that changed as well as issues with the conversion of 'old' backend pieces not converting to the new. After that was addressed the only big issue ended up being the lack of development staff to finish.

    The board was struggling with theses issues as was I to fulfill the contract. Regretfully, I failed.



    I can't tell you how much this has affected me, as well as trying to play catch up with other large clients. I am still looking to partner with a few talented developers that can meet their deadline and have the communication skills it takes to keep things moving.
  • 07-20-2012
    marpilli
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by chas_martel View Post
    This guy is pretty big in my books for being so direct. A welcome relief to read so much honesty over the issue.

    I agree wholeheartedly. It's tough to step up and lay it all out like that. Kudos to him.

    It will be interesting to see what the board does now...
  • 07-20-2012
    chas_martel
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by marpilli View Post

    It will be interesting to see what the board does now...

    Don't hold your breath.
  • 07-20-2012
    marpilli
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by chas_martel View Post
    Don't hold your breath.

    At this point I'm in no hurry. Dallas Trail Conditions is doing a good job of trying to keep the trail conditions up to date (I even made a donation to them via PayPal). And, I have this wonderful community to chat with.

    Come what may....
  • 07-20-2012
    clewttu
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by marpilli View Post
    At this point I'm in no hurry. Dallas Trail Conditions is doing a good job of trying to keep the trail conditions up to date (I even made a donation to them via PayPal). And, I have this wonderful community to chat with.

    Come what may....

    :thumbsup:
  • 07-21-2012
    odtexas
    Updated trail conditions was my primary interest in the Dorba website.
    There still seems to be an issue with trail conditions being updated for many of the trails.
    That really isn't the websites issue though.
    I find it hard to blame the trail stewards for the slow updates. Those people do enough just trying to keep the trails trimmed and open.
    Nelke seems to be a class act. He didn't blame the last programmer for his troubles. Nelke seemed to not only accept responsibility but he is paying back Dorba the $1,000 personally.
    The board are innocent bystanders in all this. Most don't have the expertise in this area so they make decisions based on what they are being told.
    New site.
    Start from scratch. Burn the old modules and all their issues. Chasing old ghosts in the machine is always a loser.
    Dorba may lose all those autopay numbers, but how many new members have been lost since joining isn't as convenient now?
    I don't think the website is a priority for Pam, the current president of Dorba. She did not join the meetup site until it had been up and running for a while. She rarely posted on the old site, same holds true for this meetup version.
    Just get the community a reliable, stable, and accurately updated trails condition site.
  • 07-21-2012
    PoisonDartFrog
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by marpilli View Post
    At this point I'm in no hurry. Dallas Trail Conditions is doing a good job of trying to keep the trail conditions up to date (I even made a donation to them via PayPal). And, I have this wonderful community to chat with.

    Come what may....

    +1

    This whole Dorba fiasco made me realize that all I really care about is the trail conditions page.

    This can't be good for membership.
  • 07-22-2012
    marpilli
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PoisonDartFrog View Post
    This can't be good for membership.

    That will be worth watching. I really wonder how new memberships and renewals are going compared to the same period in 2011 and 2010.
  • 07-30-2012
    Hiway
    The meetup website also is a good tool in maintaining ties with people. I've met some new friends there who mountain bike near Grapevine. I know it's amazing with no Dorba site to many of you...
  • 08-03-2012
    Knight511
    I would be interested to see some sort of analysis or survey as to why people join and renew with DORBA. It is my impression that if you are not part of the group of "old foggies" or are not racing in the DORBA events, there isn't a place for you. There seems to be a very vocal few that have either been on or are a part of the BOD and if you don't share their opinion, you are wrong.

    This isn't anything new though.... every online forum/club that I have been active in IRL turns out to be kind of elitist and have MANY pricks. With or without DORBA, I can get my trail conditions and help take care of my trail... they really aren't adding much to the "casual" non-racer's life except for lots of bickering and drama.
  • 08-03-2012
    marpilli
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Knight511 View Post
    I would be interested to see some sort of analysis or survey as to why people join and renew with DORBA. It is my impression that if you are not part of the group of "old foggies" or are not racing in the DORBA events, there isn't a place for you. There seems to be a very vocal few that have either been on or are a part of the BOD and if you don't share their opinion, you are wrong.

    This isn't anything new though.... every online forum/club that I have been active in IRL turns out to be kind of elitist and have MANY pricks. With or without DORBA, I can get my trail conditions and help take care of my trail... they really aren't adding much to the "casual" non-racer's life except for lots of bickering and drama.

    I paid my dues for two reasons. Back when the old site was up and running, I was buying, selling, and giving away a fair amount of stuff on the classifieds section. And, of course, one hopes their fees will help support the local trail system.

    Didn't feel right getting the good deals and riding the trails without supporting the organization that made it possible.
  • 08-03-2012
    chas_martel
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Knight511 View Post
    It is my impression that if you are not part of the group of "old foggies" or are not racing in the DORBA events, there isn't a place for you. There seems to be a very vocal few that have either been on or are a part of the BOD and if you don't share their opinion, you are wrong.

    IMO your take is spot on. I stopped my financial support when I realized what you are saying was happening.
  • 08-03-2012
    Knight511
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by marpilli View Post
    Didn't feel right getting the good deals and riding the trails without supporting the organization that made it possible.

    I joined (again) for the support reason. To try to support the trails I ride on, but after spending many days (and lots of hours) trimming and helping to keep my trail passable, it didn't take much to figure out the people I was working so much with aren't part of DORBA. After I really thought about the helping at the trail, the only saving grace was the discount on parts at shops.... but with a developing relationship with my shop, I doubt that will even be needed in the future.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by chas_martel View Post
    IMO your take is spot on. I stopped my financial support when I realized what you are saying was happening.

    As it stands right now, I won't be renewing. I will just use that $25 to go toward my state park pass to get into CHSP whenever I want.... that, at least as it seems now, is a WAY better use of my money and actually supports something I get a lot of use out of.
  • 08-03-2012
    chas_martel
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Knight511 View Post
    but after spending many days (and lots of hours) trimming and helping to keep my trail passable, it didn't take much to figure out the people I was working so much with aren't part of DORBA.

    This! I found the same thing. I put my time in on trails and never even talk about my disgust with the other aspects of DORBA.

    And I get a better discount at several shops after negotiating my own discount. I treat them like any other retailer. I tell them, "Look at the thousands I spend here...." Wham instant discount without even asking on all future purposes. I am talking about RBM by the way. I've been buying stuff there since the '70's/80's. And get discounts just fine without resorting to being a DORBA member.

    PS: Are you talking about any specific trail? I'd be willing to lend a hand. Mostly I've worked on OCNP and Harry Moss, to a lessor extent RCP and NS.
  • 08-03-2012
    Knight511
    I work exclusively at Cedar Hill SP. Actually, that is the only trail I ride too. It is close to me and I enjoy the trail (I "learned" to ride at CHSP when I was a kid... I rode 13 miles from my mom's house to the trail head, rode the trail and then back home every Saturday). I have spent more time taking care of it with trail runners than anybody else... funny how I have yet to work with any bikers out there although I am told there are some that help...

    The bike store I started at (Debo's Bikes) is long gone... I recently switched over to Bikes Inc up in Hurst (I like RBM, but they are REALLY far for me). Inc has treated me very well even though I haven't spent 1000s... I actually had a new rear wheel built by them and it cost me ~$20 more than an online place because they took care of me. I go to RBM to look at pretty toys from time to time, but I will likely buy my next bike at the Inc (and hopefully sooner than later!).

    My title describes me perfectly... no talent hack even a bit of a chicken sh*t. I am not graceful on the trail (when you are a superclyde, grace isn't too forthcoming), but I love to ride and am not ashamed to walk when I can't ride it. I don't give a crap what others think of me on the trail, it is all about me getting better (and almost every ride comes with some new achievement for me). I love to ride and it is some what cheaper than therapy and drugs to deal with life's stress. :)
  • 08-04-2012
    mark!
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Knight511 View Post
    I work exclusively at Cedar Hill SP. Actually, that is the only trail I ride too. It is close to me and I enjoy the trail (I "learned" to ride at CHSP when I was a kid... I rode 13 miles from my mom's house to the trail head, rode the trail and then back home every Saturday). I have spent more time taking care of it with trail runners than anybody else... funny how I have yet to work with any bikers out there although I am told there are some that help...

    The bike store I started at (Debo's Bikes) is long gone... I recently switched over to Bikes Inc up in Hurst (I like RBM, but they are REALLY far for me). Inc has treated me very well even though I haven't spent 1000s... I actually had a new rear wheel built by them and it cost me ~$20 more than an online place because they took care of me. I go to RBM to look at pretty toys from time to time, but I will likely buy my next bike at the Inc (and hopefully sooner than later!).

    My title describes me perfectly... no talent hack even a bit of a chicken sh*t. I am not graceful on the trail (when you are a superclyde, grace isn't too forthcoming), but I love to ride and am not ashamed to walk when I can't ride it. I don't give a crap what others think of me on the trail, it is all about me getting better (and almost every ride comes with some new achievement for me). I love to ride and it is some what cheaper than therapy and drugs to deal with life's stress. :)

    Awesome post man, especially your last paragraph. I agree, also being a superclyde, haha.

    I work trails, I pick stuff up, help others if they're stopped, and I'm not a paying member at this time. Do I plan on paying? Perhaps, when, and if they ever get a solid build up for a website, because I believe monetary payments and memberships are an important part of each organization, as much as us spending time in the heat clearing trails after storms and such.
  • 08-04-2012
    odtexas
    The inside group revolves around some racers, dirt dawgs, and before it fell apart the TNSS group.
    Dawgs came about because of a schism with previous Dorba issues.
    Someone started the site for potty humor. From what I remember the person who actually started the Dawgs site had the site stolen/taken from him by other members.
    Racers have their own locked down site. Think Big Pig.
    Most of these groups are made up of the same people and friends of the same people. So yes it is very much a racing/drinking click.
    One thing you will find in common on the other sites is that Dorba is made fun of. They post troll threads and throw bombs on Dorba and then go back to their private sites and congratulate each other of making fun of the dirt roadies/recreational riders.
    Good times... Right.
    Couple years back a bunch of these guys got together and showed up enmasse for the dorba election. Guess which board we got in that election.
    Overall there are good and bad people out there. Most issues with these sites are the ego's.
    Look at the class that David has shown. He posted up everything that went wrong with the site set up. He accepted responsibility. Apologized. Then personally paid back Dorba.
    What do we see from the previous site guy. - Not my fault the new board wouldn't listen to me- -People just don't get the site and what i am trying to do-
    No class at all. Just like the majority of his defenders/buddies.
    They need to go back to the Dawgs board and stroke each others ego's over there.

    Remember that we had no Rides forum. We were supposed to use some stupid calendar function to find pick up rides. Then they provided a rides forum since we were too stupid to use the calendar.
    These individuals are detrimental to casual riders/members.
    Dorba should be more than a playground or a line on someones linkedin resume.
    Increasing membership isn't an accomplishment when autopay is locking people in.
  • 08-04-2012
    Knight511
    Maybe it is just me, but some of the LARGEST clubs I have been a part of (like NASIOC which started out TINY) are run around a SOLID web forum without all these bells and whistles. Honestly, they are trying to force too much integration into a site instead of breaking things apart to prevent what has happened from happening.

    There appears to be no real record of members now as they are working from a BACK UP of the database and it is clear from some posts made that it is an out of date backup at best. If the membership info was at least stored separately and backed up daily/weekly to a remote computer (good god even MS Access would be better than a failed set up like we/they had).

    Full integration is super cool and super slick, but we are talking about a non-profit hear that should be spending the majority of the money raised on keeping our trails in good condition instead of wanting some web site to give visitors an e-boner.

    But what do I know? I am new to the club (newly rejoined after a long hiatus). So my opinion over there means nothing.

    Any of you folks ride on the south side of town and don't mind a fat guy tagging along, hit me up, I am always down for meeting some new folks and getting a ride in. :D
  • 08-04-2012
    Knight511
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by odtexas View Post
    The inside group revolves around some racers, dirt dawgs, and before it fell apart the TNSS group.
    Dawgs came about because of a schism with previous Dorba issues.
    Someone started the site for potty humor. From what I remember the person who actually started the Dawgs site had the site stolen/taken from him by other members.
    Racers have their own locked down site. Think Big Pig.
    Most of these groups are made up of the same people and friends of the same people. So yes it is very much a racing/drinking click.
    One thing you will find in common on the other sites is that Dorba is made fun of. They post troll threads and throw bombs on Dorba and then go back to their private sites and congratulate each other of making fun of the dirt roadies/recreational riders.
    Good times... Right.
    Couple years back a bunch of these guys got together and showed up enmasse for the dorba election. Guess which board we got in that election.
    Overall there are good and bad people out there. Most issues with these sites are the ego's.

    I got barked at after my original post about how these people went WAY back and drink together and bull crap like that and that I had no right to post my opinion.... I understand a little better as to why I was barked at. You can't get history lessons like this on the no-site they have.

    Quote:

    Look at the class that David has shown. He posted up everything that went wrong with the site set up. He accepted responsibility. Apologized. Then personally paid back Dorba.
    And just got barked at by a race organizer, Gina P, for staying in the debate over what to do. David is a stand up guy that got hit by several missteps and misfortunes all at once... I commend him for trying to stay active in a club that has a lot hate for him. Hopefully the hate will die a bit.

    Quote:

    What do we see from the previous site guy. - Not my fault the new board wouldn't listen to me- -People just don't get the site and what i am trying to do-
    No class at all. Just like the majority of his defenders/buddies.
    And to see one of the lead contenders for the new site still wanting to run Drupal blows my mind. In my untrained opinion, that back end is a POS that needs to DIAF. It couldn't handle the load then, what makes people think it will stay up in the coming years?

    Quote:

    They need to go back to the Dawgs board and stroke each others ego's over there.
    These kind of people thrive off of drama and need it to feed their egos. Unfortunately, DORBA won't die and won't go through a revolution. It will be the same old **** 3 years from now. Maybe a few will go out as a result of cirrhosis of the liver?

    Quote:

    Remember that we had no Rides forum. We were supposed to use some stupid calendar function to find pick up rides. Then they provided a rides forum since we were too stupid to use the calendar.
    This is what I really hoped for when I rejoined DORBA. To meet some folks that didn't mind a guy like me riding with them... but the rides forum got no traffic. Hell the only forum that got real traffic was the commuter and sales forums.

    Quote:

    These individuals are detrimental to casual riders/members.
    They never cared about the casual rider. It was obvious that Team Big Pig was a self serving bunch of people at the first board meeting I went to. Came to ***** about the site, then packed up and left on a ride. No contribution to the meeting... just up and out. Some of their questions were answered later in the meeting about the contract... but I never bothered to post anything about what I learned.

    Quote:

    Dorba should be more than a playground or a line on someones linkedin resume.
    Increasing membership isn't an accomplishment when autopay is locking people in.
    DORBA could take some pointers from all those ricer car clubs forums out there... it is a place to gather socially when you can't hang out. It should be a place to plan get togethers and events to draw more people in and make connections. Instead, it is all about racing and egos. Sad.
  • 08-04-2012
    Knight511
    That was a long reply. It makes me laugh to scroll down to the VERY bottom of this page and see vBulletin. Same software used for NASIOC.... neither off which have huge crashes and such. Coincidence?
  • 08-04-2012
    brewrider
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Knight511 View Post


    And to see one of the lead contenders for the new site still wanting to run Drupal blows my mind. In my untrained opinion, that back end is a POS that needs to DIAF. It couldn't handle the load then, what makes people think it will stay up in the coming years?


    Drupal isn't necessarily the problem. Some much larger and much busier sites run on it. The problem with Drupal is that less skilled / less dedicated people can really make a mess of it. With Drupal, it's a lot more about the coders than other CMS platforms. Honestly, I think a really good PHP & Drupal guy could have fixed the problems they had. A good MySQL DBA would probably need to examine the database too. That doesn't solve the problem though since you really can't just code these things and leave it alone. It needs routine code maintenance. Few things of any complexity work that way. It sounded to me like the people who were working on the old site knew what the problems were and how to fix them, but they were not allowed to go forward with the fixes. Instead, the powers that be wanted to make a radical change. I guess they thought they'd be throwing good money after bad.

    IMO, they should have been working on the old site to keep it on life support AND a new site if that's the direction they wanted to go. You don't just shut down and hope the new site comes through on time. This is the business I'm in. This stuff never gets done on time...
  • 08-04-2012
    chas_martel
    You guys are making too much sense...........that's not allowed.

    < / sarcasm >
  • 08-04-2012
    odtexas
    I think part of the reason they wanted to change was to get the ghosts out of the machine.
    Can you ever truly lock the old architect out of the system he wrote.
    Before the change to Drupal some of the newly elected board members and friends were crying sabotage.
    The new programmer was let go by his employer and had plenty of time for a few years to constantly maintain the platform.
    Dorba drupal version started really showing its bugs when he started his new job and quit putting in the time to maintain it.
    Pretty simple really.
    And it isn't that most Dorba peoples are bad. We just have a small group that constantly Dawg pile on.
    Look at the thread over here. No support on Dorba. The old drupal programmer now using the new meet up site basically saying don't go over to mtbr. We have things under control here.
    Then his buddy builds the dallastrails.org site and that very day the announcement is made to use it instead of/in addition to the meet up.
    As usual with this little group unless it is their idea or their work, your help just isn't needed or wanted.

    Us recreational riders just want a trails update page. You can keep all the other noise.
    As far as why some of us carry on over here. Well maybe to let others know what to expect if you want to try to help.
    The new president is good people. She is truly an advocate for the trails.
    Remember she canceled the Boulder race.
    She put the trail first and not the race.

    These little spats have been going on for years and will always continue. Best solution on the website would have a third party build and maintain it. That way no dorba people have too much access to the back end of the system and comb through people IM's or blank accounts.
  • 08-04-2012
    odtexas
    Here are some of the people that will jump you on dorba and what they do on dawgs.
    You can see the class they have and why no one should care what their opinons are.


    edit.

    Sorry search function thread won't post. Just search for any normally banned word.
    I searched for "***" ( the letter eff a gee ) since it is one of the most favorite words over there.
  • 08-04-2012
    Knight511
    Is it just me or do I remember a time before Dorba 2.0 and what some call Dorba 1.0 (a basic website) where there was a working forum and people used it to meet up and ride together.... a time when Dorba was about being social and not about being a prick? I know I am talking about a time some 12-13 years ago, but it is what it is. Focus on having fun and being social and less on money and racing.
  • 08-04-2012
    Knight511
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by odtexas View Post
    Here are some of the people that will jump you on dorba and what they do on dawgs.
    You can see the class they have and why no one should care what their opinons are.


    edit.

    Sorry search function thread won't post. Just search for any normally banned word.
    I searched for "***" ( the letter eff a gee ) since it is one of the most favorite words over there.

    You have to be registered there to do anything. Not interested in a site for more drama. Of course, when I clicked your link, I get this:

    Quote:

    The following words in your search query were ignored because they are too common words: ***.
    So your point is proven without being able to see anything. ;)
  • 08-04-2012
    Knight511
    After reading the "truth" about proposal B and the crazy money he wanted for it, all I could think of was this...

    Eric Cartman - Screw You Guys I&#39;m Going Home - YouTube

    Yes.... take your toys and go home... that will help solve the problems.
  • 08-05-2012
    odtexas
    Not professional at all. The guy is a web builder after all. Then again maybe it is an ego thing.

    This goes back to the need for a third party to handle the site.

    Wish Francois, our tolerant ultralord, over here at MTBR would start making plug and play sites for biking clubs.
  • 08-06-2012
    marpilli
    Well, it looks like DORBA is currently down to one option for a new website. One of the two proposals was withdrawn...

    The Full Story of the DORBA Proposal | Dallas Trails

    Quote:

    It is unfortunate that a great community is tarnished by an ego-driven personal agenda and fear of losing approval from select groups. In such environment DORBA 3.0 cannot exist, nor can the club really achieve its full potential. Skvare hereby withdraws its proposal.
  • 08-06-2012
    odtexas
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by marpilli View Post
    Well, it looks like DORBA is currently down to one option for a new website. One of the two proposals was withdrawn...

    The Full Story of the DORBA Proposal | Dallas Trails

    Skvare is the one with the ego issue obviously. What does a thrid party website designer care about the politics of the client.

    If the prospective client accepts the offer then designer just meets terms of agreement.
    If the client does not accept offer then they move on to their next job.

    Skvare appears to have a prior relationship with the previous drupal/website designer.

    A professional group would have gone through the bidding process and stayed out of the politics. Hence the reason the site should be entirely third party with specific verbage on site access/ownership by the dorba board.
  • 08-06-2012
    marpilli
    I'm surprised (sounds like I shouldn't be, though) at the amount of emotional drama from all sides on this issue. It's a bike club that needs a website. It's not the affordable care act or gun control...
  • 08-06-2012
    odtexas
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by marpilli View Post
    I'm surprised (sounds like I shouldn't be, though) at the amount of emotional drama from all sides on this issue. It's a bike club that needs a website. It's not the affordable care act or gun control...

    Notice that you don't see the current President of Dorba getting invloved with any accusations or mud slinging.

    Notice the derogatory tone towards her and demands to make her answer questions about the website, bylaws, votes, etc.

    Who are the bomb throwers on the temp Dorba site?
    Same as the ones from Dorba 1.0 and 2.0.

    These guys have been around for years. Doubt they will ever go away.

    They are best ignored, but the continous stream of lies out of them does need to be pointed out to the dorba members that have not been here the last 10 years.

    These other groups exist because they did not either like previous Dorba goals/mission statement/ or forum moderation.

    Now it seems that all they care about is taking and keeping control of the very organization they walked away from.

    Next election maybe all the Dawgs and Pigs will show up for the election and retake control again.
  • 08-06-2012
    marpilli
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by odtexas View Post
    Next election maybe all the Dawgs and Pigs will show up for the election and retake control again.

    I can't help but laugh because this sounds so very teenager "neighborhood gang" like. :lol:

    All I want to do is ride the local trails. I don't race and never will. I'd like to put some money towards the current maintenance and future development of those trails. It would also be great to have a local website where I can join in local discussions regarding those trails and check the open/closed status.

    Too bad immature behavior seems to get in the way...
  • 08-06-2012
    clewttu
    fascinating stuff
    just wondering how a group as large as Dorba wouldnt have someone with some web/it/etc experience overseeing the selection and direction of the new site...now maybe they do, but it just doesnt come across like anyone on the BOD has a clue about this sort of thing
  • 08-06-2012
    odtexas
    The latest lies from our former BOD and current overlord of the meetup dorba site.


    Quote:

    My somewhat informed estimate would put us back near 600 paid memberships today. Many folks don't even own stamps, envelopes, checkbooks, answering machines, rim brakes, and 7 speed drive trains anymore.

    The convenience of the site along with the clear appearance of who is and is not a member drove the numbers. That's not an opinion, there is simple hard data behind that stament. This outage was avoidable. And it has cost the club so far nearly $20K in paid membership renewals.

    And now for an opinion. This is either a costly misunderstanding of the financial operations of the club or a willful malfeasance putting politics over much needed membership revenues.
    The comparison of stamps, envelopes, and checkbooks to rim brakes is sort of funny, just not truthful.

    Somewhat informed leaves mostly uninformed by default.....:D

    I doubt the clear appearance of who was and wasn't a member mattered to too many people. But when you are one of the ones who think that you are in the cool click and other want to be like you, I can see why this particular delusion is so appealing to the former BOD member.

    Now for the biggest part of the lie.

    Dorba Meet up founded May 10th 2012

    So in less than 3 months Dorba has lost ~ $20,000 in member renewals. Membership is $25 so that means ~800 memberships lost in 3 months. So using our previous BOD members math Dorba will have lost 3200 members by the end of the year. Now don't let the fact that Dorba never had that many members get in the way of a good lie.

    Furthermore if membership is so important to the previous BOD member then why has he not put a sticky in every meet up forum on how to join/renew.

    One has to dig several pages to find threads that tell you to download a file and then mail it off to Dorba.

    I think his accusation that "willful malfeasance putting politics over much needed membership revenues."
    is dead on. Just it is him that is doing it.

    Class act guy that one is.