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  1. #201
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    Did you just quote yourself? Wow...

    The offer to kill the thread when Solo comes in to answer questions is great..

    I think there is a list of accomplishments somewhere from that DORBA 2.0 crew...

  2. #202
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    Conversation about needed maintenance and tuning of the site started over 18 months ago. It was not seen as urgent so it was left to the current BOD. The current president decided to open up bids for a new site. Other BOD members also wanted to include a bid for the tuning and scaling of the current solution. The current president was able to persuade enough BOD members to get her way and accept a proposal from David Nelke. The President and BOD were aware that the site was failing for 5 months and could fail for good at any time. It was finally over-run in May. The site is actually running now serving as a design pattern and content for the new site. So there are events, and then there are the facts that drove those events.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by odtexas View Post
    Dorba 2.0 gone. Crashed and burned.
    Trails thread here over 20,000 hits since Dorba was unstable.
    Think of it as 20,000 rides not missed due to solo's inability to stabilize his platform.
    Not much more need to be said than that. Facts speak for themselves.
    "So I am guessing that you pigs and dawgs are showing up here for the first posts in years since you are no longer in control of the dorba site."
    I'm only posting here because you are attacking my friends with a lot of bad information. So far you've been able to post a lot of words about issues you seem to not be well versed on without any rebuttal from the people actually involved. Now you are calling people out for simply responding to everything you got wrong.

    As for myself, I rarely posted on DORBA. Dirtdawgs & Big Pigs have their own forum. Most of the dirtdawgs and big pigs I interact with on a daily basis were not big users of the DORBA forum either. Your statement of "control" over the DORBA site misrepresenting the reality of the situation.

  4. #204
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    Scott,

    Happy to hear that you got a 29er, maybe that ride helped to get you hooked on big wheels.

    You hit things on the head with the "slow on Facebook' comment.

    It rains here. People bet bored. Next you know the degenerates let loose on the forums.

    Problem we have now is that the Dorba site is the main way new people meet the organized mountain bike community.

    Now look at how dorba is being represented by johnny. Do you want family members, friends, church members, to be referred to Johnny's post on how to join.

    Then maybe they will stumble across the other thread where solo, etal, are piling on the filth even deeper.

    Honestly these people should be ashamed of what they are doing.

    We have a teacher on the dorba.info site requesting changes to the join info because she doesn't want to lose access to the site at her school.

    Do you think she is going to refer her students and their parents to the join thread?

    Dorba board members ought to be ambassadors to the community.

    You should be an ambassador for dorba and the sport of XC racing.

    When going to a city to attempt to open a new trail would you proudly recommend they go to the website and check out what dorba is all about?

    Scott, ride hard and thanks for taking the race burden on. Its a really hard position.

  5. #205
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    I see. This is about your wanting to judge the behavior of others as condition to participate in DORBA.

    DORBA is about Trails, People, Bikes, and Rides... what some dude wants his avatar to be is between him and society as a whole. We're not in the Internet etiquette business.

  6. #206
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    Sorry.. this is a lot more words than I like..


    I disagree about the DORBA website being how new people meet the organized MTB community. From what I have seen, they meet the people on the trail, talk to them in person, ride a few times, and perhaps end up on facebook, and then coming to the forum to look for events. I personally didnít know anything about DORBA until I met Tate on LBH years ago.

    Being more of a non-conformist, I spend my time as a mountain biker, and pursuer of what used to be ďfringeĒ sports like rock climbing, caving, and surfing. Still am to some degree. But now that more ďregularĒ people are coming into the sport, they do have a hard time dealing with unconventional people and perhaps are more sensitive to the antics of those people on the internet. I donít blame Johnny, I donít blame them. I think Johnnyís avatar was probably funny as hell to him, and maybe a little ďshockingĒ which is why he used it. To me it really wasnít a big deal.

    Piling on the filth, I donít see that in anything that solo posted; some of the comments by others (including me) were facetious, but no more inappropriate than I would say in front of someone. Seriously, itís a bike club.

    As for the teacherís issues, I get that she/he may not want to look on the internet forums during work. Kids get a look at her screen and will blow anything out of proportion, just like this whole avatar thing. I also firmly believe that if someone has an issue with something, they should take it to that person directly. Post up, or PM, Text, email, call. Any of those are better than continuing to incite the mob. If the people that originally had concerns had handled them on a one-to-one basis with Johnny, or whomever else they had problem with, this whole issues would have died a quiet death.

    I do agree that the members of the Board are ambassadors of the sport and organization. I also believe weíre about having a good time. As such, any membersí avatar is just that. A silly bit of self-expression that in no way reflects on or impedes the values and goals of the club. If more than that is being read into it, then those people should take a deeper look inside themselves to see what is causing their consternation.

    As far as me personally being an ambassador of the club or sport, thatís not in my job description, but I do a damned good job at it; fairly regular trail work, fixing the odd flat or busted chain either on the trail or the road for people that need it, former trail steward and race director. Iíve got my bases covered. Goofing off on a forum isnít even in the ballpark as far as being an ambassador goes.

    When working with a city or land owner, the current website is the last place I would send them; the previous one, even at its slowest would give them the information they were looking for without have to wade through 1500 peoples' idiosyncrasies. I would direct them to the VP of Trails, our mission statement, and eventually to a meeting to discuss things in person. The forum is for goofing off; the business side of the site is where the work gets done. So check the calendar, look at the type of events we sponsor, and check our record on advocacy.

    Iíd even include some examples of our work over the past year or two.


    1. Tate and Dave worked with Groundworks Dallas and the Trinity Trust has been discussing the design and development of a connector trail system along the Trinity River levees as part of the Trinity River Corridor Project.

    2. Harry Moss trail added

    3. I-45 dirt jump park discussions began. Justin (minotro) joined to help

    4. DORBA Tool Grant Program established

    5. Texas High School MTB League asks to start their new series with DORBA

    6. IMBA President calls Rich asking DORBA to join and is interested in taking over DORBA membership

    7. DORBA is recognized at Interbike and vendors want to do business with DORBA

    8. Shadow learns of Big Cedar and an MOA is created

    9. City of MicKinney Developmental Council wants to partner with DORBA

    10. Tom Thumb Rewards Program is introduced

    11. City of Dallas mayor Mike Rawlings proclaims DORBA Day on August 17, 2011

    12. DORBA has a graduate intern to earn credits for a class

    13. Some students from SMA approach DORBA about a grant writing project

    14. Project Transformation (a program for underprivileged kids) is given Camelbaks and other stuff

    15. City of Dallas gives us more land to expand LBH

    16. REI recognizes DORBA and gives the club $5000

    17. Local sponsors (TerraFirma and Spinistry) begin to offer DORBA discounts for their events

    18. First trail count at RCP and the city of Rowlett recognizes Jack at their Volunteer Gala

    19. DORBA begins to accept credit/debit card payments at races and events

    20. Race schedule is announced one year in advance. TMBRA responds by publishing their schedule one year in advance too

    21. Ben and his Red Jump Crew introduce chip timing to the DORBA series

    22. End Of Year Parties at Rahr and Franconia Brewery with unlimited free beer and food.

  7. #207
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    You forgot a four-fold increase in paid memberships representing an additional $36,000.00 per year towards our missions. This was some classic marketing work as well as a play on human nature. Once I figured out how large our web audience was 10K it became clear that while folks might not pay $30 for a DORBA membership no one would know about, they would pay the $30 for a DORBA Fred badge next to their forum posts. It seems online credibility meant more to folks that anonymously doing the right thing.

  8. #208
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    ahhh, I knew there was a list.

  9. #209
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    Instead of coming in and offering to answer questions in a thread that has lived past its usefulness (if it had any at all), answer the questions that have already been asked. What has happened to DORBA, where it has been, what all has happened, and possibly most importantly, where the "factions" came from (what actually pushed them to form). Give the other side of the history lesson... put it on the table and let it speak for itself. Tell a story but leave your opinions out of the story... just tell the story.

    I have had my perception of the Pigs changed in recent days. I wasn't too impressed the first few encounters, but there have been a few things in the last week that has made me think twice about the first impression. Granted this too may be ill guided (only time will tell), but one Pig (Rich actually) has done a pretty good job changing my perception despite never really meeting him in person.

    I don't think anyone would argue about the need for DORBA to grow again, and I also think that anyone that is set against its growth has no reason to add input in the direction.
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  10. #210
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    I'm not sure that there is anyone who is against DORBA growing, including the current board members. I'd say that there are some people better at managing the business of growing an organization than others. DORBA may be a non-profit, but it is a business and needs people who understand that.
    Back when people say Pigs and Dawgs "took over", DORBA was stagnating. Nothing was being done to grow the sport in Dallas other than the important and valued work of the trail stewards and other trail working volunteers. Rich and other passionate people who happened to have ties to these other groups decided that the way to affect change was to step up and run for board positions. If they could all lead DORBA with common goals (tidying up the business of DORBA and giving DORBA direction), the chances of meeting their goals would be much greater. They campaigned not on a basis of popularity, but on the basis of their vision of what DORBA could be. They campaigned on DirtDawgs and many Dawgs showed up to the elections because they had people to vote for that had passion and drive to make changes. Did they succeed? i guess that depends. If nothing in the list posted above matters to you, then I guess not. I think that DORBA was undoubtedly in better shape from a financial, membership and record-keeping standpoint.
    Were there bumps in the road? Was there friction? Was the website slow? Sure. Change creates friction, letting go of the status quo isn't always easy for some and sometimes we hit doubles instead of home runs. If they didn't swing for the fences, who would?
    If you disagree with all I've said, just take this bit away: be 100% sure that no matter what you've heard, neither the Pigs nor Dawgs are anti-DORBA or against DORBA's members.
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  11. #211
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    The problem with folks like me is that we were once part of DORBA a long time ago (pre-2000) and life got busy and we fell out. We come back (I say we because I have seen more than one in this type of situation) to find a radically different DORBA than we left. There was a lot that happened in the years between, and some sort of discussion about the road DORBA has been down has never been discussed.... just a lot of finger pointing.

    I think that there is some problems with current leadership, but to point the finger at a single person seems silly. Isn't a BOARD of directors? Just seems like pointing fingers at one is too much like saying "Obama sucks because he has done nothing to help me" yet there are literally hundreds of folks in congress to blame as well.

    Some of this "fighting" has been helpful to me because it has finally started to bring out some of this history.

    Hell, up until the last week or so, it was nearly impossible to find the bylaws in a place that a normal joe could see them. Instead of telling people "bylaws this and bylaws that" they have finally been posted.

    I knew that the Pigs and Dawgs took control at some point in the past. I did not know that Rich served 2 terms as president while things were pulled around (he wasn't alone, who else was responsible for helping things turn and how did they help?).

    I also know that DORBA does present to be some what family friendly (family memberships and kids classes in races), so to claim we have no interest in being somewhat "family friendly" in out public view seems silly too.

    The one things that has bothered me since I joined is a lack of just fun social riding in my area. Everything is "far" north and impossible for me to get to after work. I got called out on being antisocial, and I decided that it was time to try to make changes. I am not a racer and likely never will be (I get too competitive and it does bad things to me). I am a "casual" rider. I am a clydesdale (currently a super-c-dale). I love to ride. I love bikes. I love tinkering and upgrading crap (why do I still want to upgrade a 13 year old bike? because it is carbon and still rides great!). And so far, I have really enjoyed the company of the folks that I have met IRL through DORBA.

    As so far as trying to resolve who is who and what is REALLY going on "behind the scenes" of DORBA and the "factions" has really put a damper on the enthusiasm though.... I want that to change. So please, tell us your stories without beating your chests and putting people down. Tell us about this broken road we find ourselves on.
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  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight511 View Post
    The problem with folks like me is that we were once part of DORBA a long time ago (pre-2000) and life got busy and we fell out. We come back (I say we because I have seen more than one in this type of situation) to find a radically different DORBA than we left. There was a lot that happened in the years between, and some sort of discussion about the road DORBA has been down has never been discussed.... just a lot of finger pointing.

    I think that there is some problems with current leadership, but to point the finger at a single person seems silly. Isn't a BOARD of directors? Just seems like pointing fingers at one is too much like saying "Obama sucks because he has done nothing to help me" yet there are literally hundreds of folks in congress to blame as well.

    Some of this "fighting" has been helpful to me because it has finally started to bring out some of this history.

    Hell, up until the last week or so, it was nearly impossible to find the bylaws in a place that a normal joe could see them. Instead of telling people "bylaws this and bylaws that" they have finally been posted.

    Bylaws were publicly posted on the last dorba site before it went down.

    I knew that the Pigs and Dawgs took control at some point in the past. I did not know that Rich served 2 terms as president while things were pulled around (he wasn't alone, who else was responsible for helping things turn and how did they help?).

    Pigs and Dawgs didn't "take control". Passionate members of the mountain biking community were voted in. Some were members of Big Pigs, some were members of the online community (that's really all they are), Dirt Dawgs. They did not have an agenda or goals based on Big Pigs or Dirt Dawgs.
    Rich, Mike Rheyer, Ric Ceron, Charity Gostwick, Paul Hakes, Ben Thornton, Gina Porter, Scott Holmes, Johnny Blaskovich and some others were part of the board over the past 3 years. I hope someone will chime in and add the people I've missed as well as detail their service.


    I also know that DORBA does present to be some what family friendly (family memberships and kids classes in races), so to claim we have no interest in being somewhat "family friendly" in out public view seems silly too.
    I tend to agree.

    The one things that has bothered me since I joined is a lack of just fun social riding in my area. Everything is "far" north and impossible for me to get to after work. I got called out on being antisocial, and I decided that it was time to try to make changes. I am not a racer and likely never will be (I get too competitive and it does bad things to me). I am a "casual" rider. I am a clydesdale (currently a super-c-dale). I love to ride. I love bikes. I love tinkering and upgrading crap (why do I still want to upgrade a 13 year old bike? because it is carbon and still rides great!). And so far, I have really enjoyed the company of the folks that I have met IRL through DORBA.
    Rides don't happen without ride leaders who really are just organizers. All you have to do is consistently post the ride in the Ride forum and before you know it, it will become an institution. BTW- I think someone has setup a weekly ride at Boulder. Look on the website and/or facebook.

    As so far as trying to resolve who is who and what is REALLY going on "behind the scenes" of DORBA and the "factions" has really put a damper on the enthusiasm though.... I want that to change. So please, tell us your stories without beating your chests and putting people down. Tell us about this broken road we find ourselves on.

    "Factions" come from people who can't handle the fact that the DFW MTB scene is large and there are varied disciplines within it. The word "factions" implies that there is division amongst these groups. There are racers, huckers, newbies, casual riders, etc. People tend to gravitate toward those with common interests. This should be OK. Getting them to work together and allow some give-and-take on DORBA issues is the key to getting things done.
    I think we all want it to change. I don't have any inside information as to what is "really" going on. I don't know the details of the "new website" fiasco. I believe it could have been avoided had the money been spent on an expert to tune the 2.0 site, but that's a personal opinion. This will sound like a snide remark, but I don't intend it to be. If you want to clean things up, please run for a board position! DORBA needs people who have the drive to fix things and are willing to take the abuse that comes with causing friction. The last part is usually what shocks people in to just going through the motions and falling into the status quo.
    Last edited by los36; 09-19-2012 at 09:08 AM.
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  13. #213
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    Agree that Dorba 1.0 was stagnating. We were promised bigger and bette with 2.0.

    We were denied a rides forum though. We were given a calendar to use and told to lump it.

    Eventually a rides forum was started because people started using the trail conditions pages for picking up rides.

    I think of Dorba membership like a gym. Only about 20% use it on regular basis while the other 80% are still stuck in autopay paying for a membership they aren't using.

    If Dorba grew so big so fast and it wasn't due to autopay then why did paying members fall off so fast after the autopay site crashed. Fact is the increase in membership was due to the ease of paying online and the complication of not renewing. Just like gym membership.

    Now to join online you are greeted by sleaze. Your now defining that this is what Dorba is. It is a way to drive away your average person/casual rider. The ones who help pay the bills.

    If you don't think dorba should be the family friendly face of XC MTB that is fine.

    We are going to have a difference of opinion. The threads over here have been added to and watched by the casual riders though. This is where they had to come to find out what trails were open.

    Since I am no longer updating the trails thread I would expect the Texas forum traffic to drop alot.

    But honestly I hope they don't send dorba any money as long as BOD members act like degenerates in public forums.

  14. #214
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    responses and stuff.
    Edited content underlined...
    Quote Originally Posted by odtexas View Post
    Agree that Dorba 1.0 was stagnating. We were promised bigger and bette with 2.0.

    We were denied a rides forum though. We were given a calendar to use and told to lump it.
    I get what Mike was trying to do there. It makes logical sense that a ride announcement would go on a calendar instead of cluttering a forum with a bunch of "RCP 6pm tomorrow" posts. But the change was too great for people to handle. I'm not calling people dumb, I'm just saying that people don't like change and that was a big one. Its not like he was "denying" anyone the right to organize a get-together. I think your wording mischaracterizes the change.


    Eventually a rides forum was started because people started using the trail conditions pages for picking up rides.

    I think of Dorba membership like a gym. Only about 20% use it on regular basis while the other 80% are still stuck in autopay paying for a membership they aren't using.
    Do you think they're not using their membership as the ride down the trail? It was not an autopay trap. AS I REMEMBER ... The wording and option to turn off autopay was right there on the screen when they clicked "Pay". Again, your wording mischaracterizes the issue. Otherwise I defer to Mike on the details.

    If Dorba grew so big so fast and it wasn't due to autopay then why did paying members fall off so fast after the autopay site crashed. Fact is the increase in membership was due to the ease of paying online and the complication of not renewing. Just like gym membership.
    You mention ease of signing up online. That is one of the main factors as to why it grew so fast. Who wants to look up an address online, print and fill out a form, write a check and mail it in. Fact is that before the autopay can kick-in, someone had to see value in becoming a member and click the "Join" button. Why did it drop off so quickly? That one is obvious: there was no longer an easy way to pay and almost no way to find the address or form.

    Now to join online you are greeted by sleaze. Your now defining that this is what Dorba is. It is a way to drive away your average person/casual rider. The ones who help pay the bills.

    If you don't think dorba should be the family friendly face of XC MTB that is fine.

    We are going to have a difference of opinion. The threads over here have been added to and watched by the casual riders though. This is where they had to come to find out what trails were open.

    Since I am no longer updating the trails thread I would expect the Texas forum traffic to drop alot.

    But honestly I hope they don't send dorba any money as long as BOD members act like degenerates in public forums.
    Last edited by los36; 09-19-2012 at 08:55 AM.
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  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by odtexas View Post
    Agree that Dorba 1.0 was stagnating. We were promised bigger and bette with 2.0.
    Yes, a plan was presented to membership. I still have the deck
    We were denied a rides forum though. We were given a calendar to use and told to lump it.
    Also correct, feedback was it was too formal so we brought it back. The idea as to be able to have a chronological listing of rides something like meetup.
    Eventually a rides forum was started because people started using the trail conditions pages for picking up rides.

    I think of Dorba membership like a gym. Only about 20% use it on regular basis while the other 80% are still stuck in autopay paying for a membership they aren't using.
    First important thing to know: DORBA 2.0 had nothing to to do with auto-pay from paypal. It was never available through the site and was already seen as a customer service problem before the site was launched. Auto-Pay was an experiment prior to my time on the BOD. Any issues with auto-pay come from prior to 2007 and can only be resolved by the paypal account holder. DORBA can't even help a member with it
    If Dorba grew so big so fast and it wasn't due to autopay then why did paying members fall off so fast after the autopay site crashed. Fact is the increase in membership was due to the ease of paying online and the complication of not renewing. Just like gym membership.
    Please be careful when you use the word fact. I know all about this stuff as I built it and there is no political lens to it. DORBA memberships grew quickly with the new site for two reasons: 1) It was easy to sign up and you could always go online and see the status of your memberships, event registrations, etc. There was a CRM back end that was designed to help manage the membership and contributions of a non-profit organization. 2) This is MOST IMPORTANT.... we designed the system so that if a user held a current membership they received a "FRED" badge next to all of their posts. Not only that but members had special capabilities within the site and special access to certain forums and other content. 3) There was a third, and that was the establishment of the member benefits program where local businesses would provide free or discounted services or goods to DORBA members. The site allowed you to print proof of current membership. Those are the online reasons membership grew.
    Now to join online you are greeted by sleaze. Your now defining that this is what Dorba is. It is a way to drive away your average person/casual rider. The ones who help pay the bills.
    You're saying YOU when I have no control over the operation of any of the current online properties. I set up the meetup site quickly as an alternative when the 2.0 site was finally overrun. I then immediately turned over admin rights to the current President and BOD members. I have nothing to do with whatever your trying to say above.
    If you don't think dorba should be the family friendly face of XC MTB that is fine.
    I think we should be about Trails, People, Bikes and Rides. I don't think we should try to be daycare to the online or offline communities. It's not our place to write the rules nor is it our place to find some way to enforce them. It's not our issue. If someone is a crude idiot, they likely were before they came to DORBA and DORBA has nothing to do with how folks express themselves. I just don't want us to become the "family friendly" police in public places. I don't think we should social engineer folks behavior any more than Facebook does.
    We are going to have a difference of opinion. The threads over here have been added to and watched by the casual riders though. This is where they had to come to find out what trails were open.

    Since I am no longer updating the trails thread I would expect the Texas forum traffic to drop alot.

    But honestly I hope they don't send dorba any money as long as BOD members act like degenerates in public forums.
    I hope DORBA focuses on their misions around Trails, People, Bikes and Rides and welomes all who share that passion and leaves social engineering to other entities.
    Thanks for your time

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    But honestly I hope they don't send dorba any money as long as BOD members act like degenerates in public forums.
    This is the kind of attitude that polarizes the club. I hope DORBA gets as many memberships as it can regardless of what judgmental people think. It's human nature to resent someone that is not like you... or sees the boundaries different than you. My point is that Johnny, or whomever's self-expression is not DORBA business. It's human business. DORBA is about Trails, Bikes, Rides.... if you dig those things and want to hang with us I don't care about your tattoos, your politics, what you say about W... that's just people.

    DORBA needs to focus on it's mission not social engineering the club, it's members, or leaders.

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    When you say "greeted by sleeze", do you mean the avatar that Johnny had? Cause that's the only thing I saw even close to sleeze.

    So you characterize an entire site by only one pic?

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by odtexas View Post
    Agree that Dorba 1.0 was stagnating. We were promised bigger and bette with 2.0.
    Some of us predated DORBA 1.0. More of a Dorba 0.25 if you will. Back then, we could get gatorade at Kroger on sale! We didn't ask for much and we weren't promised much. We just rode our frickin bikes, drank some beers and had some fun.

    If you didn't like 2.0 or any configuration in between, your option is to either do something about it(within the framework of the club rules which includes joining) or shut the heck up. People who piss and moan without actually taking action to make a change are beyond annoying. Some of the folks that have been complained about in this context I've known for many years. They have all perceived a different way of doing things and went about actually trying it out to see what the results are. What have you done on that front other *****? There will never be complete agreement on the way to do things when so many are involved, but the bottom line is that if you don't actively participate within the framework of the rules you aren't really entitled to complain about how it's done.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by sholmes View Post
    So you characterize an entire site by only one pic?
    Not only that, but it's also since been edited and still being brought up by this odtexas...

    History of DD as I remember it:

    On DORBA 1.0, forums were sort of new and folks were just working out how their online persona would be. I know I was one to push boundaries online, but not really beyond what I'd tell you face to face.

    There was an active ride forum back then and lots of folks met up and began riding with one another. One of the things that some of the women wanted was a private ride forum presumably so that a bunch of dudes didn't show up where the women's forum was. One of those women was Cap's wife and since he ran the site, the Dirt Divas forum was started ON THE DORBA FORUM!

    Now I've got no problem with all of that, I get it. Why do a bunch of women want a bunch of dudes showing up at their rides unannounced? Someone simply asked if a men's version of the same thing could be put in place and Cap refused.

    So, a DORBA member created DirtDawgs just so that the boys could be boys too. Now instead of talking about which tampon is best to ride with during your period (see, that's a joke--probably not appropriate on DORBA, but something that would go over no problem on DD. And you all laughed, even the women, but no one will admit it and I'll just be a jerk for saying it--and I'm ok with that), we talked about boobs and posted pictures of boobs in our little online sandbox.

    At first, it was sort of a free for all--a couple of dozen guys got together and played around in the forum--no women. It got to the point (and still is at that point) that you had to be vouched in by another "member" because it was attracting enough attention that the women from DORBA were trying to join--and some did having access to "The Porch". After a while, the porch experiment was shut down and women have access to the rides forum, for sale, stuff like that.

    Somewhere during that experiment, some things went wrong. The DDs were instigating things on DORBA just for laughs--something that didn't last long, but was probably not one of the more mature things that the group did. And I can't think of the last "dog pile" we've had as a group, so I think the group has transcended that at this point.

    It's just really a bunch of guys, being guys, on a forum with few rules. I've gained some really great friends because of that forum and the group has done some good things too, one of which was helping the current President of DORBA, Pam J, replace her bicycle after it was stolen from RCP while she was doing trail work. I led that effort and was greatly assisted (he got EP pricing on it I believe) by current BOD member Bobby D. Both DD and DORBA folks participated in the fundraiser. Here bill of sale:



    We do trail work, we have group rides, we'll support a member who's fallen on tough times, fallen riders, whatever. It's a good group of folks and anyone that says otherwise is simply not in the know, jealous of the comradely, or simply too thin skinned to be vouched in.

    I've been one of the original members since the beginning and there has never been a takeover agenda of DORBA. We are purposely not that organized. It's even been joked about that it would be so easy to do--and it really would be, yet we've never acted as a group to do it.

    So that's the history of DD (as I remember it, it's been 10 years now I think) and I'm sure that the above isn't 100% accurate but it's pretty damn close. I don't know how I would have gotten through my Dad's death (happy birthday, Dad) without that group of misfits.

    All that said, I've got no animosity towards the current BOD, president, former BODs, members, etc. These people are all volunteering for an organization that doesn't pay them anything in return. DORBA is a great group of folks and I hope it survives. I thank each one of them when I see them even if I don't agree with the decisions.

    I was very outspoken recently on the Meetup site that I was not renewing my membership this fall until someone could give a clear vision of WTF was going on as threads about the new DORBA 2.0 went un-replied to for weeks. I'm still not a member, but plan to be as soon as online membership is available to me again. I believe in what DORBA does (though I'm not into all the political bickering) but I'm not willing to send money into a black hole with no vision or leadership--and that's the DORBA I have been experiencing over the past few months. Read that again, it's not that DORBA had no vision or leadership, but that was my experience as a user of DORBA's internet presence.

    I feel terrible for Solo, with others. I invited him via DORBA to DD years ago because he clearly would fit in with our group of folks. I vouched him into DD after having lunch with him. I've been one of his harshest critics on DORBA 2.0. Still, he worked tirelessly to make a great DORBA 2.0 and when it came time for DORBA to pony up and keep it going after Solo's warnings that it was getting beyond his capabilities to manage, it did exactly that and got beyond his capabilities to manage. He's taken a buttload of arrows for that and instead, should be thanked. He essentially brought tens of thousands of dollars to DORBA all by himself, and yet folks just want to say that he let the forum die--when in fact, it's alive, just hidden from public view and could easily be brought back to public view if DORBA was willing to spend the money on it--money that without the forum, it wouldn't have. That is a fact.

    Thanks again to all the DORBA BOD past and present, my fellow DDs, and all the folks that make the MTB scene here in DFW one of the best in the country.

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    Thanks for the kind words, Jay.

    All of this is just now becoming clear to me that the conflict within DORBA boils down to a difference in vision. One vision is a smaller and more like-minded club. Those folks use terms like "family Friendly" in an attempt to make those not so like minded feel unwelcome. That's how Dirt Dawgs came to be.

    The other vision does not care how you conduct your own business, your tattoos, your politics, and welcomes all they love trails, riders, bikes, and rides. This is a much more inclusive vision that sees the potential of 2,400 Facebook followers and 10,000 registered web site users to embrace a much larger portion of the cycling community.

    Cycling is a diverse activity and some events are going to be family friendly and some are not. I know some adults are not comfortable in anything but a "family friendly" setting but that does not make them better than other morally or otherwise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by los36 View Post
    See comments below:
    Well that quoted nicer than I expected... Thanks for the alternate view on things. I am finally putting some different views into the pot to see what cooks out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solo, with others View Post
    This is the kind of attitude that polarizes the club. I hope DORBA gets as many memberships as it can regardless of what judgmental people think. It's human nature to resent someone that is not like you... or sees the boundaries different than you. My point is that Johnny, or whomever's self-expression is not DORBA business. It's human business. DORBA is about Trails, Bikes, Rides.... if you dig those things and want to hang with us I don't care about your tattoos, your politics, what you say about W... that's just people.

    DORBA needs to focus on it's mission not social engineering the club, it's members, or leaders.

    Hypocrite!

    I seem to recall you very much caring about things, associated with the club, individuals did in the past.

    Why the change of heart now?
    Nobody cares...........

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    The thing that irks me the most has roots in the mentality the does not believe a non-profit should be run like a regular old fashion business. That is this, lack of continuity. Would anyone herein participate in any form or fashion in a business that just assumes it restarts every 12-24 months?

    I've been watching DORBA long enough to realize that it regularly goes thru phases. I've yet to see DORBA led by a group that realizes their responsibility to provide for continuity.

    The website is just one glowing example of this. The lack of members realizing obligations to the reputation of the club is another, we've been hear before in almost the exact context.

    No way in hell I'm gonna support DORBA with my money, why would I want to be an enabler? I will continue to do manual labor on trails.
    Nobody cares...........

  24. #224
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    At this point it looks like the small like-minded faction will win. They threw out the old systems and procedures in favor of a "new direction" back in January and have watched memberships plummet.

    At this point my only interests are some trail work and running Clearfork. Not even Pam can screw that up as she does not have the relationships with the US Forrest Service. Joe and I have committed to put it on with or without DORBAs support.

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    So Pam is out to get you. You sound sort of small minded and paranoid.
    Solo set up the new site and it did burn down around him. Solo could have supported threads here to keep people riding but didn't.
    Solo could have set up a thread on meet up, made it a sticky, so people could get the join dorba information.
    If you question Solo this is how he responds.


    Bike cop pointed out that maybe the meetup site title page should have "temporary" added to it.

    Solo made the change but without acknowledging it or apoligizing for acting like, well himself as usual.

    No worries. Solo gone for now.

    The DD history sounds perfectly accurate from my memory as well. I always hated the womens only forum idea. It is discrimination pure and simple.

    DD was needed and was/is a great place to just be vulgar.

    Dorba is the public face of our community though. Cities, churches, others who dorba wants/need to have land use agreements with may check us out.

    Vulgarity in the closed forum on dorba is one thing.

    When the "how to join" is a board members avatar of a banana boat though, that is just stupid.

    If it wasn't in poor taste then why did he feel the need to change it? Really?

    Dorba should be Family Friendly so as not to drive away any riders or land use opportunities.

    Save the crazy stuff for DD or out on the trails in person.

  26. #226
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    I never said Pam was out to get me.

    Pam gave me and others the Heisman when we tried to help. Her words "new direction" = Darkspire

    I was not the admin for Meetup... BOD members were and are.

    There was in-fact a welcome page explaining the situation in addition to a forum dedicated to it. DORBA online functions were not my responsibility at that time.

    I make no apologies for my style or my avatars. Any negative you put on it is all you and your limits of tolerance.

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    On the point of Johnny's avatar.
    I will admit we had had a few beers when we starting playing around with the camera. While I'm not proud of everything that happened that evening, I am not ashamed of that photo. I feel it captured my better side, and I believe it's a rather flattering photo.

  28. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by goongala View Post
    On the point of Johnny's avatar.
    I will admit we had had a few beers when we starting playing around with the camera. While I'm not proud of everything that happened that evening, I am not ashamed of that photo. I feel it captured my better side, and I believe it's a rather flattering photo.
    Despite everything else that has happened..... that right there.... is funny.
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  29. #229
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    I served on the BOD with Mike and know the situation first hand, his summary provided in this thread is accurate. Mike has been a great benefactor to DORBA and I have enormous respect for him and what he has done. This thread has done nothing more than attempt to supplant fact with undermining tones of people crying "sour grapes" and void of substance. Mike has nothing to do with the current webb issues. Dispense with the pathetic wheezing over avatars and what ever, run for a board postion. If your going to do the talk you need to do the walk.

  30. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solo, with others View Post
    I never said Pam was out to get me.

    Pam gave me and others the Heisman when we tried to help. Her words "new direction" = Darkspire

    I was not the admin for Meetup... BOD members were and are.

    There was in-fact a welcome page explaining the situation in addition to a forum dedicated to it. DORBA online functions were not my responsibility at that time.

    I make no apologies for my style or my avatars. Any negative you put on it is all you and your limits of tolerance.
    Liar

    You had admin access or access high enough to start thread, lock thread, sticky threads, and lock people out. Do I need to post those screen shots as well?

    Liar.........

  31. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight511 View Post
    Despite everything else that has happened..... that right there.... is funny.
    +1

  32. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by odtexas View Post
    Liar

    You had admin access or access high enough to start thread, lock thread, sticky threads, and lock people out. Do I need to post those screen shots as well?

    Liar.........
    It's one thing to be responsible for the online activities, and another to be responsible for moderating a community. Have a man to man discussion with Mike if you've got such a hard on for finding out what went wrong.

    Either way, you should stop calling my friends liars. It makes you seem petty and small.
    wat

  33. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by odtexas View Post
    Liar

    You had admin access or access high enough to start thread, lock thread, sticky threads, and lock people out. Do I need to post those screen shots as well?

    Liar.........
    Post them because I only remember a couple of people being locked out. Batdude was one and he literally asked for it. Aside from obvious spammers or those that were not following sponsor rules about promoting events I was pretty light on the moderation.

    Post them. If it is something I recognize I will tell you the circumstances and who all was involved in the decisions. I'm not perfect but I don't feel I have anything to hide.

  34. #234
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    I was locked out of Dorba. I actually wrote an auto damage estimate on the jeep grand cherokee of the ****** who locked me out. To hell with DORBA.

  35. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spoook View Post
    I was locked out of Dorba. I actually wrote an auto damage estimate on the jeep grand cherokee of the ****** who locked me out. To hell with DORBA.
    Must have been before my time. I drive an Element.

    So did that make him see the light and let you back in?

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    Point is that you had access to do these things and you lying about it. Splitting hairs that you were not admin.
    You had the ability to ban people. You had the ability to make stickies. So don't plead that you had not control/input on the meet up site
    .
    You just proved yourself the liar. Bad part is you will never see it or admit it. Classic narcissist.
    Your site is gone. Orgwerks is probably not far behind if you treat your clients the way you treat your fellow riders.

  37. #237
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    Still just comments of sour grapes, how pathetic.

  38. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by odtexas View Post
    Point is that you had access to do these things and you lying about it. Splitting hairs that you were not admin.
    You had the ability to ban people. You had the ability to make stickies. So don't plead that you had not control/input on the meet up site
    .
    You just proved yourself the liar. Bad part is you will never see it or admit it. Classic narcissist.
    Your site is gone. Orgwerks is probably not far behind if you treat your clients the way you treat your fellow riders.
    It's easy to call me a liar. It's much harder to prove it. But unfortunately that burden is on you. Yes for part of a day I had admin access to Meetup... so did the BOD. I set it up so the current BOD could get in and welcome everyone. I don't know what specific foul you're referring too because you refuse to be specific so I can't defend myself against your charges. So, you're going to have to do better than lobbing accusations from behind the keyboard to be anything other than someone that does just that.

    I've offered to address anything specific enough to be identifiable but you've refused to both present specifics and you really don't sound interested in either them being addressed or your maybe becoming more informed about the matter. Either way, you seem to be more itn the smaller like-minded DORBA camp as opposed to the larger more diverse DORBA so if you want to just declare me a political enemy we can at least agree to that.

    OrgWerks has no current clients. The site serves to generate leads that can be serviced by others. I work for ShopSavvy now.

    Keep the questions and specifics coming... or not.

  39. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solo, with others View Post
    I was not the admin for Meetup... BOD members were and are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Solo, with others View Post
    It's easy to call me a liar.
    Yes, and you make it that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Solo, with others View Post
    Yes for part of a day I had admin access to Meetup...
    Even this is not the complete truth. Does it matter anymore? No. Narcissist is a better description of your behavior than liar. You seem to truly believe your little slice of reality.
    My point was that you had access. You denied. Later you are forced to admit. You do not acknowledge your deception since of some level you believe you are telling to truth.
    Hence, narcissism. Not a cut, just a revelation. It explains your inability to listen to suggestions by members, unwillingness to implement change, lack of ability to ever say that you made mistakes as David did when he tried to salvage the site.

    Further discussion with you is pointless since reality escapes your grasp. You proved my point that you were lying about not having access. Then you tell us it is our burden to prove it.

    Truly sad......

  40. #240
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    I still don't know what you are trying to accuse me of. If anyone else understands what he's talking about chime in. At this point I think you've lost whatever point and audience you may have once had.

    If you just wanted all the sour grapes to yourself, at least you have succeeded in that.

  41. #241
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    The only thing I've seen here that even remotely looks like proof of anything is that ODTexas has done nothing more than portray himself/hersself as a spineless whimp.

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    Where are you screen caps, dude? I'm curious.
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  43. #243
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    been traveling abroad for a while, good to see there is a dorba website now, but its nothing like the website i heard was coming, think i read somewhere in this thread it was coming in phases? whats next for phase 2? cuz the current one is pretty weaksauce

    also, since when are banana hammocks not PC?



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  44. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by odtexas View Post
    Point is that you had access to do these things and you lying about it. Splitting hairs that you were not admin.
    You had the ability to ban people. You had the ability to make stickies. So don't plead that you had not control/input on the meet up site
    .
    You just proved yourself the liar. Bad part is you will never see it or admit it. Classic narcissist.
    Your site is gone. Orgwerks is probably not far behind if you treat your clients the way you treat your fellow riders.

    Irony is strong with this one.

  45. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by odtexas View Post
    Yes, and you make it that way.



    Even this is not the complete truth. Does it matter anymore? No. Narcissist is a better description of your behavior than liar. You seem to truly believe your little slice of reality.
    My point was that you had access. You denied. Later you are forced to admit. You do not acknowledge your deception since of some level you believe you are telling to truth.
    Hence, narcissism. Not a cut, just a revelation. It explains your inability to listen to suggestions by members, unwillingness to implement change, lack of ability to ever say that you made mistakes as David did when he tried to salvage the site.

    Further discussion with you is pointless since reality escapes your grasp. You proved my point that you were lying about not having access. Then you tell us it is our burden to prove it.

    Truly sad......
    You seem to have really gotten off base here.
    Last edited by goongala; 09-25-2012 at 06:10 AM.

  46. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solo, with others View Post
    Must have been before my time. I drive an Element.

    So did that make him see the light and let you back in?
    No, he was still a D-bag even I was handling his claim. Too bad I would normally get a fellow biker all the perks I can.

  47. #247
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    Who's the d-bag?

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    Been in DORBA for longer than 10 years. Haven't felt as irritated ever since the inception of the new Website and the dramatic downfall of the club in regards to everything. Suggestions are answered with the only response the followers know "Do some trail work! and get back to us". Funny, it's the same small group of members posting the nasty responses to people's suggestions all the time. Somebody suggested some type of color and graphics for the home page, which is an eyesore in terms of web design 101, and was greeted with nastiness and sarcasm that wasn't even well placed.

    I have long forgotten DORBA and do trail work on my own at the trails I frequent. DORBA seems a gigantic mess now, and I will say that the website still is pretty bad, after almost an entire year. I agree wholeheartedly with a lot of the comments on here from people who once supported the club, and are now forgetting about it. Shame really. Just looking at the race attendance for the last series is a real eyeopener. Some groups that regularly had 50-70 racers have dropped to 10-15 at most on a good day. Trail updates are long forgotten, trail maps are non existent, you name it. Simple things that you expect in a webpage about a city's mountain bike trails aren't there. There is always an excuse for the lack of information, but after over a year, it gets old.
    ... And I Am You,
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  49. #249
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    From an outsider's perspective, it seems the racing sub-groups of DORBA stick together and give each other relentless hell most of the time. Innocent by standards that offer suggestions or criticism are usually pounced on and run off.

    I do plan to renew my membership for another year. For the the non-racing, family and friend riding folks like me, I don't see much value for my money right now.

    And, before anyone asks, I do partcipate in trail work days and will continue to do so (even brought one of my kids along to help last time).

  50. #250
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    I see some well respected people like Bobby D have veered away from DORBA.

    Any updates?
    it seems more splintered than ever.

    Maybe someone should start a group like DORBA use to be .... well at least a website w/ forums and trail updates and other info would be good.

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