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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight511 View Post
    I would be interested to see some sort of analysis or survey as to why people join and renew with DORBA. It is my impression that if you are not part of the group of "old foggies" or are not racing in the DORBA events, there isn't a place for you. There seems to be a very vocal few that have either been on or are a part of the BOD and if you don't share their opinion, you are wrong.

    This isn't anything new though.... every online forum/club that I have been active in IRL turns out to be kind of elitist and have MANY pricks. With or without DORBA, I can get my trail conditions and help take care of my trail... they really aren't adding much to the "casual" non-racer's life except for lots of bickering and drama.
    I paid my dues for two reasons. Back when the old site was up and running, I was buying, selling, and giving away a fair amount of stuff on the classifieds section. And, of course, one hopes their fees will help support the local trail system.

    Didn't feel right getting the good deals and riding the trails without supporting the organization that made it possible.
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  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight511 View Post
    It is my impression that if you are not part of the group of "old foggies" or are not racing in the DORBA events, there isn't a place for you. There seems to be a very vocal few that have either been on or are a part of the BOD and if you don't share their opinion, you are wrong.
    IMO your take is spot on. I stopped my financial support when I realized what you are saying was happening.
    Nobody cares...........

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by marpilli View Post
    Didn't feel right getting the good deals and riding the trails without supporting the organization that made it possible.
    I joined (again) for the support reason. To try to support the trails I ride on, but after spending many days (and lots of hours) trimming and helping to keep my trail passable, it didn't take much to figure out the people I was working so much with aren't part of DORBA. After I really thought about the helping at the trail, the only saving grace was the discount on parts at shops.... but with a developing relationship with my shop, I doubt that will even be needed in the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by chas_martel View Post
    IMO your take is spot on. I stopped my financial support when I realized what you are saying was happening.
    As it stands right now, I won't be renewing. I will just use that $25 to go toward my state park pass to get into CHSP whenever I want.... that, at least as it seems now, is a WAY better use of my money and actually supports something I get a lot of use out of.
    Fat guys need bikes too.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight511 View Post
    but after spending many days (and lots of hours) trimming and helping to keep my trail passable, it didn't take much to figure out the people I was working so much with aren't part of DORBA.
    This! I found the same thing. I put my time in on trails and never even talk about my disgust with the other aspects of DORBA.

    And I get a better discount at several shops after negotiating my own discount. I treat them like any other retailer. I tell them, "Look at the thousands I spend here...." Wham instant discount without even asking on all future purposes. I am talking about RBM by the way. I've been buying stuff there since the '70's/80's. And get discounts just fine without resorting to being a DORBA member.

    PS: Are you talking about any specific trail? I'd be willing to lend a hand. Mostly I've worked on OCNP and Harry Moss, to a lessor extent RCP and NS.
    Nobody cares...........

  5. #80
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    I work exclusively at Cedar Hill SP. Actually, that is the only trail I ride too. It is close to me and I enjoy the trail (I "learned" to ride at CHSP when I was a kid... I rode 13 miles from my mom's house to the trail head, rode the trail and then back home every Saturday). I have spent more time taking care of it with trail runners than anybody else... funny how I have yet to work with any bikers out there although I am told there are some that help...

    The bike store I started at (Debo's Bikes) is long gone... I recently switched over to Bikes Inc up in Hurst (I like RBM, but they are REALLY far for me). Inc has treated me very well even though I haven't spent 1000s... I actually had a new rear wheel built by them and it cost me ~$20 more than an online place because they took care of me. I go to RBM to look at pretty toys from time to time, but I will likely buy my next bike at the Inc (and hopefully sooner than later!).

    My title describes me perfectly... no talent hack even a bit of a chicken sh*t. I am not graceful on the trail (when you are a superclyde, grace isn't too forthcoming), but I love to ride and am not ashamed to walk when I can't ride it. I don't give a crap what others think of me on the trail, it is all about me getting better (and almost every ride comes with some new achievement for me). I love to ride and it is some what cheaper than therapy and drugs to deal with life's stress.
    Fat guys need bikes too.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight511 View Post
    I work exclusively at Cedar Hill SP. Actually, that is the only trail I ride too. It is close to me and I enjoy the trail (I "learned" to ride at CHSP when I was a kid... I rode 13 miles from my mom's house to the trail head, rode the trail and then back home every Saturday). I have spent more time taking care of it with trail runners than anybody else... funny how I have yet to work with any bikers out there although I am told there are some that help...

    The bike store I started at (Debo's Bikes) is long gone... I recently switched over to Bikes Inc up in Hurst (I like RBM, but they are REALLY far for me). Inc has treated me very well even though I haven't spent 1000s... I actually had a new rear wheel built by them and it cost me ~$20 more than an online place because they took care of me. I go to RBM to look at pretty toys from time to time, but I will likely buy my next bike at the Inc (and hopefully sooner than later!).

    My title describes me perfectly... no talent hack even a bit of a chicken sh*t. I am not graceful on the trail (when you are a superclyde, grace isn't too forthcoming), but I love to ride and am not ashamed to walk when I can't ride it. I don't give a crap what others think of me on the trail, it is all about me getting better (and almost every ride comes with some new achievement for me). I love to ride and it is some what cheaper than therapy and drugs to deal with life's stress.
    Awesome post man, especially your last paragraph. I agree, also being a superclyde, haha.

    I work trails, I pick stuff up, help others if they're stopped, and I'm not a paying member at this time. Do I plan on paying? Perhaps, when, and if they ever get a solid build up for a website, because I believe monetary payments and memberships are an important part of each organization, as much as us spending time in the heat clearing trails after storms and such.

  7. #82
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    The inside group revolves around some racers, dirt dawgs, and before it fell apart the TNSS group.
    Dawgs came about because of a schism with previous Dorba issues.
    Someone started the site for potty humor. From what I remember the person who actually started the Dawgs site had the site stolen/taken from him by other members.
    Racers have their own locked down site. Think Big Pig.
    Most of these groups are made up of the same people and friends of the same people. So yes it is very much a racing/drinking click.
    One thing you will find in common on the other sites is that Dorba is made fun of. They post troll threads and throw bombs on Dorba and then go back to their private sites and congratulate each other of making fun of the dirt roadies/recreational riders.
    Good times... Right.
    Couple years back a bunch of these guys got together and showed up enmasse for the dorba election. Guess which board we got in that election.
    Overall there are good and bad people out there. Most issues with these sites are the ego's.
    Look at the class that David has shown. He posted up everything that went wrong with the site set up. He accepted responsibility. Apologized. Then personally paid back Dorba.
    What do we see from the previous site guy. - Not my fault the new board wouldn't listen to me- -People just don't get the site and what i am trying to do-
    No class at all. Just like the majority of his defenders/buddies.
    They need to go back to the Dawgs board and stroke each others ego's over there.

    Remember that we had no Rides forum. We were supposed to use some stupid calendar function to find pick up rides. Then they provided a rides forum since we were too stupid to use the calendar.
    These individuals are detrimental to casual riders/members.
    Dorba should be more than a playground or a line on someones linkedin resume.
    Increasing membership isn't an accomplishment when autopay is locking people in.

  8. #83
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    Maybe it is just me, but some of the LARGEST clubs I have been a part of (like NASIOC which started out TINY) are run around a SOLID web forum without all these bells and whistles. Honestly, they are trying to force too much integration into a site instead of breaking things apart to prevent what has happened from happening.

    There appears to be no real record of members now as they are working from a BACK UP of the database and it is clear from some posts made that it is an out of date backup at best. If the membership info was at least stored separately and backed up daily/weekly to a remote computer (good god even MS Access would be better than a failed set up like we/they had).

    Full integration is super cool and super slick, but we are talking about a non-profit hear that should be spending the majority of the money raised on keeping our trails in good condition instead of wanting some web site to give visitors an e-boner.

    But what do I know? I am new to the club (newly rejoined after a long hiatus). So my opinion over there means nothing.

    Any of you folks ride on the south side of town and don't mind a fat guy tagging along, hit me up, I am always down for meeting some new folks and getting a ride in.
    Fat guys need bikes too.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by odtexas View Post
    The inside group revolves around some racers, dirt dawgs, and before it fell apart the TNSS group.
    Dawgs came about because of a schism with previous Dorba issues.
    Someone started the site for potty humor. From what I remember the person who actually started the Dawgs site had the site stolen/taken from him by other members.
    Racers have their own locked down site. Think Big Pig.
    Most of these groups are made up of the same people and friends of the same people. So yes it is very much a racing/drinking click.
    One thing you will find in common on the other sites is that Dorba is made fun of. They post troll threads and throw bombs on Dorba and then go back to their private sites and congratulate each other of making fun of the dirt roadies/recreational riders.
    Good times... Right.
    Couple years back a bunch of these guys got together and showed up enmasse for the dorba election. Guess which board we got in that election.
    Overall there are good and bad people out there. Most issues with these sites are the ego's.
    I got barked at after my original post about how these people went WAY back and drink together and bull crap like that and that I had no right to post my opinion.... I understand a little better as to why I was barked at. You can't get history lessons like this on the no-site they have.

    Look at the class that David has shown. He posted up everything that went wrong with the site set up. He accepted responsibility. Apologized. Then personally paid back Dorba.
    And just got barked at by a race organizer, Gina P, for staying in the debate over what to do. David is a stand up guy that got hit by several missteps and misfortunes all at once... I commend him for trying to stay active in a club that has a lot hate for him. Hopefully the hate will die a bit.

    What do we see from the previous site guy. - Not my fault the new board wouldn't listen to me- -People just don't get the site and what i am trying to do-
    No class at all. Just like the majority of his defenders/buddies.
    And to see one of the lead contenders for the new site still wanting to run Drupal blows my mind. In my untrained opinion, that back end is a POS that needs to DIAF. It couldn't handle the load then, what makes people think it will stay up in the coming years?

    They need to go back to the Dawgs board and stroke each others ego's over there.
    These kind of people thrive off of drama and need it to feed their egos. Unfortunately, DORBA won't die and won't go through a revolution. It will be the same old **** 3 years from now. Maybe a few will go out as a result of cirrhosis of the liver?

    Remember that we had no Rides forum. We were supposed to use some stupid calendar function to find pick up rides. Then they provided a rides forum since we were too stupid to use the calendar.
    This is what I really hoped for when I rejoined DORBA. To meet some folks that didn't mind a guy like me riding with them... but the rides forum got no traffic. Hell the only forum that got real traffic was the commuter and sales forums.

    These individuals are detrimental to casual riders/members.
    They never cared about the casual rider. It was obvious that Team Big Pig was a self serving bunch of people at the first board meeting I went to. Came to ***** about the site, then packed up and left on a ride. No contribution to the meeting... just up and out. Some of their questions were answered later in the meeting about the contract... but I never bothered to post anything about what I learned.

    Dorba should be more than a playground or a line on someones linkedin resume.
    Increasing membership isn't an accomplishment when autopay is locking people in.
    DORBA could take some pointers from all those ricer car clubs forums out there... it is a place to gather socially when you can't hang out. It should be a place to plan get togethers and events to draw more people in and make connections. Instead, it is all about racing and egos. Sad.
    Fat guys need bikes too.

  10. #85
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    That was a long reply. It makes me laugh to scroll down to the VERY bottom of this page and see vBulletin. Same software used for NASIOC.... neither off which have huge crashes and such. Coincidence?
    Fat guys need bikes too.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight511 View Post


    And to see one of the lead contenders for the new site still wanting to run Drupal blows my mind. In my untrained opinion, that back end is a POS that needs to DIAF. It couldn't handle the load then, what makes people think it will stay up in the coming years?

    Drupal isn't necessarily the problem. Some much larger and much busier sites run on it. The problem with Drupal is that less skilled / less dedicated people can really make a mess of it. With Drupal, it's a lot more about the coders than other CMS platforms. Honestly, I think a really good PHP & Drupal guy could have fixed the problems they had. A good MySQL DBA would probably need to examine the database too. That doesn't solve the problem though since you really can't just code these things and leave it alone. It needs routine code maintenance. Few things of any complexity work that way. It sounded to me like the people who were working on the old site knew what the problems were and how to fix them, but they were not allowed to go forward with the fixes. Instead, the powers that be wanted to make a radical change. I guess they thought they'd be throwing good money after bad.

    IMO, they should have been working on the old site to keep it on life support AND a new site if that's the direction they wanted to go. You don't just shut down and hope the new site comes through on time. This is the business I'm in. This stuff never gets done on time...

  12. #87
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    You guys are making too much sense...........that's not allowed.

    < / sarcasm >
    Nobody cares...........

  13. #88
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    I think part of the reason they wanted to change was to get the ghosts out of the machine.
    Can you ever truly lock the old architect out of the system he wrote.
    Before the change to Drupal some of the newly elected board members and friends were crying sabotage.
    The new programmer was let go by his employer and had plenty of time for a few years to constantly maintain the platform.
    Dorba drupal version started really showing its bugs when he started his new job and quit putting in the time to maintain it.
    Pretty simple really.
    And it isn't that most Dorba peoples are bad. We just have a small group that constantly Dawg pile on.
    Look at the thread over here. No support on Dorba. The old drupal programmer now using the new meet up site basically saying don't go over to mtbr. We have things under control here.
    Then his buddy builds the dallastrails.org site and that very day the announcement is made to use it instead of/in addition to the meet up.
    As usual with this little group unless it is their idea or their work, your help just isn't needed or wanted.

    Us recreational riders just want a trails update page. You can keep all the other noise.
    As far as why some of us carry on over here. Well maybe to let others know what to expect if you want to try to help.
    The new president is good people. She is truly an advocate for the trails.
    Remember she canceled the Boulder race.
    She put the trail first and not the race.

    These little spats have been going on for years and will always continue. Best solution on the website would have a third party build and maintain it. That way no dorba people have too much access to the back end of the system and comb through people IM's or blank accounts.

  14. #89
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    Here are some of the people that will jump you on dorba and what they do on dawgs.
    You can see the class they have and why no one should care what their opinons are.


    edit.

    Sorry search function thread won't post. Just search for any normally banned word.
    I searched for "***" ( the letter eff a gee ) since it is one of the most favorite words over there.

  15. #90
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    Is it just me or do I remember a time before Dorba 2.0 and what some call Dorba 1.0 (a basic website) where there was a working forum and people used it to meet up and ride together.... a time when Dorba was about being social and not about being a prick? I know I am talking about a time some 12-13 years ago, but it is what it is. Focus on having fun and being social and less on money and racing.
    Fat guys need bikes too.

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by odtexas View Post
    Here are some of the people that will jump you on dorba and what they do on dawgs.
    You can see the class they have and why no one should care what their opinons are.


    edit.

    Sorry search function thread won't post. Just search for any normally banned word.
    I searched for "***" ( the letter eff a gee ) since it is one of the most favorite words over there.
    You have to be registered there to do anything. Not interested in a site for more drama. Of course, when I clicked your link, I get this:

    The following words in your search query were ignored because they are too common words: ***.
    So your point is proven without being able to see anything.
    Fat guys need bikes too.

  17. #92
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    After reading the "truth" about proposal B and the crazy money he wanted for it, all I could think of was this...

    Eric Cartman - Screw You Guys I'm Going Home - YouTube

    Yes.... take your toys and go home... that will help solve the problems.
    Fat guys need bikes too.

  18. #93
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    Not professional at all. The guy is a web builder after all. Then again maybe it is an ego thing.

    This goes back to the need for a third party to handle the site.

    Wish Francois, our tolerant ultralord, over here at MTBR would start making plug and play sites for biking clubs.

  19. #94
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    Well, it looks like DORBA is currently down to one option for a new website. One of the two proposals was withdrawn...

    The Full Story of the DORBA Proposal | Dallas Trails

    It is unfortunate that a great community is tarnished by an ego-driven personal agenda and fear of losing approval from select groups. In such environment DORBA 3.0 cannot exist, nor can the club really achieve its full potential. Skvare hereby withdraws its proposal.
    Contact information: http://about.me/marpilli

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by marpilli View Post
    Well, it looks like DORBA is currently down to one option for a new website. One of the two proposals was withdrawn...

    The Full Story of the DORBA Proposal | Dallas Trails
    Skvare is the one with the ego issue obviously. What does a thrid party website designer care about the politics of the client.

    If the prospective client accepts the offer then designer just meets terms of agreement.
    If the client does not accept offer then they move on to their next job.

    Skvare appears to have a prior relationship with the previous drupal/website designer.

    A professional group would have gone through the bidding process and stayed out of the politics. Hence the reason the site should be entirely third party with specific verbage on site access/ownership by the dorba board.

  21. #96
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    I'm surprised (sounds like I shouldn't be, though) at the amount of emotional drama from all sides on this issue. It's a bike club that needs a website. It's not the affordable care act or gun control...
    Contact information: http://about.me/marpilli

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by marpilli View Post
    I'm surprised (sounds like I shouldn't be, though) at the amount of emotional drama from all sides on this issue. It's a bike club that needs a website. It's not the affordable care act or gun control...
    Notice that you don't see the current President of Dorba getting invloved with any accusations or mud slinging.

    Notice the derogatory tone towards her and demands to make her answer questions about the website, bylaws, votes, etc.

    Who are the bomb throwers on the temp Dorba site?
    Same as the ones from Dorba 1.0 and 2.0.

    These guys have been around for years. Doubt they will ever go away.

    They are best ignored, but the continous stream of lies out of them does need to be pointed out to the dorba members that have not been here the last 10 years.

    These other groups exist because they did not either like previous Dorba goals/mission statement/ or forum moderation.

    Now it seems that all they care about is taking and keeping control of the very organization they walked away from.

    Next election maybe all the Dawgs and Pigs will show up for the election and retake control again.

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by odtexas View Post
    Next election maybe all the Dawgs and Pigs will show up for the election and retake control again.
    I can't help but laugh because this sounds so very teenager "neighborhood gang" like.

    All I want to do is ride the local trails. I don't race and never will. I'd like to put some money towards the current maintenance and future development of those trails. It would also be great to have a local website where I can join in local discussions regarding those trails and check the open/closed status.

    Too bad immature behavior seems to get in the way...
    Contact information: http://about.me/marpilli

  24. #99
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    fascinating stuff
    just wondering how a group as large as Dorba wouldnt have someone with some web/it/etc experience overseeing the selection and direction of the new site...now maybe they do, but it just doesnt come across like anyone on the BOD has a clue about this sort of thing

  25. #100
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    The latest lies from our former BOD and current overlord of the meetup dorba site.


    My somewhat informed estimate would put us back near 600 paid memberships today. Many folks don't even own stamps, envelopes, checkbooks, answering machines, rim brakes, and 7 speed drive trains anymore.

    The convenience of the site along with the clear appearance of who is and is not a member drove the numbers. That's not an opinion, there is simple hard data behind that stament. This outage was avoidable. And it has cost the club so far nearly $20K in paid membership renewals.

    And now for an opinion. This is either a costly misunderstanding of the financial operations of the club or a willful malfeasance putting politics over much needed membership revenues.
    The comparison of stamps, envelopes, and checkbooks to rim brakes is sort of funny, just not truthful.

    Somewhat informed leaves mostly uninformed by default.....

    I doubt the clear appearance of who was and wasn't a member mattered to too many people. But when you are one of the ones who think that you are in the cool click and other want to be like you, I can see why this particular delusion is so appealing to the former BOD member.

    Now for the biggest part of the lie.

    Dorba Meet up founded May 10th 2012

    So in less than 3 months Dorba has lost ~ $20,000 in member renewals. Membership is $25 so that means ~800 memberships lost in 3 months. So using our previous BOD members math Dorba will have lost 3200 members by the end of the year. Now don't let the fact that Dorba never had that many members get in the way of a good lie.

    Furthermore if membership is so important to the previous BOD member then why has he not put a sticky in every meet up forum on how to join/renew.

    One has to dig several pages to find threads that tell you to download a file and then mail it off to Dorba.

    I think his accusation that "willful malfeasance putting politics over much needed membership revenues."
    is dead on. Just it is him that is doing it.

    Class act guy that one is.

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