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  1. #101
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    There was discussion at the June BOD meeting about the meet-up site. The owner won't give control of the site over to DORBA and therefore DORBA cannot control any income that comes from Meet up. That is why you won't see membership info there... self serving egos. As so far as membership goes, it was also discussed that we had attracted several HUNDRED new peopel to the meet up site for DORBA that evidently weren't a part of DORBA 2.0... so the multi-media approach seems like a better fit than the P&D folks would like you to believe....

    The other thing that bothers me, the BOD keep talking about going to the BOD meetings to get info on the site and such, that is why I went to the July meeting. Barely a thing was said. It was clear that the contract had no deadlines built in or timelines, but that was something I gathered by what wasn't said. I would head out to this next meeting, but it is on the other side of the earth from my house.... not gonna happen on a Tuesday night. What happened to the meetings being at REI?
    Last edited by Knight511; 08-15-2012 at 05:37 PM.
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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight511 View Post
    The owner won't give control of the site over to DORBA and therefore DORBA cannot control any income that comes from Meet up.
    Just to ensure I understand. The guy that created the meet-up site (Mike?) has publicly said he will not give control of the site over to DORBA? Was he officially asked and he declined?

    I wasn't aware income could come from meet-up. What are the revenue sources?

  3. #103
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    At the time of the meeting in July, he wouldn't give over control. That may have changed by now, but I don't know. As for income, I guess you can actually use Meetup to sign up for events and such and take registration fees, but the site was linked to Mike's info and therefore his Paypal. I am new to meetup (DORBA is the only one for me), so I am not sure how it all works.... I just know at the July meeting, it was clear he had been asked to "donate" control to DORBA but would not.
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  4. #104
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    So overall it sounds like the previous BOD member who had control of the crashed and burned 2.0 now is holding the meetup group hostage.

    He is not posting information on joining or renewing Dorba memberships on his site which is using the Dorba.org address.

    He alleges access to inside information and estimates Dorba losses to be ~$20,000.

    Website design candidate "Group B" pulled its bid alleging inside formation/half truths. Some unknown individual must have given "inside information" to group B to make them bail out of the bidding process

    There seems to be a pattern or repeated and malicious interference. this interference has possibly caused a substantial loss of income to Dorba. It seems that this loss of income could be actionable by Dorba.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight511 View Post

    Yes.... take your toys and go home... that will help solve the problems.
    Are you talking about the new guy proposing plan b or the last person maintaining the site? Did he take the old system OFF LINE? Why did not the BOD insist that they owned the last website? I don't get that part. The old president said the old site exist and is backed up yet they don't use it? I thought it crashed and was not backed up, yet he said it was backed up.

    Very very messed up.

    Maybe they should use what funds they have suing the guy. I'd contribute to that cause.
    Nobody cares...........

  6. #106
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    I plan on going tonight... Will let you know what I find out...

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by chas_martel View Post
    Are you talking about the new guy proposing plan b or the last person maintaining the site?
    The guy who withdrew proposal B.... didn't like that he got criticized some in public view and packed his toys up to go home. I remember somebody saying a WHILE back that this kind of crap should not be put out and debated in such public view, but no one listened. Companies don't air their dirty laundry, why would DORBA want to? The guy that said it should be a more private discussion may have been half way smart.

    Quote Originally Posted by marpilli View Post
    I plan on going tonight... Will let you know what I find out...
    Cool. I just can't get way over to RCP. I went to the July meeting at LBH and if it wasn't for the guest speaker, it would have been a HUGE waste of time.
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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight511 View Post
    I remember somebody saying a WHILE back that this kind of crap should not be put out and debated in such public view, but no one listened. Companies don't air their dirty laundry, why would DORBA want to? .
    I can see why some don't want this aired in public but this is a 501c corp and there is no other forum. I've never been to a monthly meeting where details are discussed. There is always a call to take it offline.
    Nobody cares...........

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by chas_martel View Post
    I can see why some don't want this aired in public but this is a 501c corp and there is no other forum. I've never been to a monthly meeting where details are discussed. There is always a call to take it offline.
    This is where it would be who of the BOD to have a second FB page for discussing stuff like this... a page that is a CLOSED group and locked down to paying members. All the "discussing" has been bad advertising for the club to say the least... at least when it comes to folks debating on joining or not.
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  10. #110
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    The meeting was interesting and I'm glad I went.

    They reported that membership in January was about 1,700 and currently at 840 (I don't remember the exact numbers).

    Regarding the website. There was some discussion about the necessity for a unified website and it appeared that everyone agreed DORBA did need a centralized website. Clint gave a description of the technology that he would use to build the new website if he were selected. Pricing was discussed as $3,000 one time cost and $75 monthly cost. Peter was asked if he would like to re-submit his proposal and he declined. Some additional discussion as whether to enter into contract negotiations with Clint or rework the request for proposal and seek new bidders. Bobby dismissed himself from the vote to prevent a conflict of interest as he was friends with Clint. In the end, the board voted to enter into contract negotiations with Clint and move forward with his proposal.

  11. #111
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    I am sure some would like to blame the website for the membership falling, but we also went without a membership director for a very long time. I would think that would hurt worse than the website (no one to steer the ship and send out renewal info). Be that as it may, I would like to see the site come together fairly quickly... if not in its entirety, at least the forums so we can get off of this lousy Facebook set up.
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  12. #112
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    The membership fell for the same reason it increased.
    The Drupal site had autopay. Like most autopay features you had to go hunt it down to turn it off.
    Autopay is off since the Drupal site is down.

  13. #113
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    I didn't realize it had auto pay, and I didn't know why auto pay was brought up about retaining membership. Thanks again for info that isn't mentioned at the other place.
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  14. #114
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    Never been a fan of autopay myself, because it just feels deceptive to many who might not remember or notice that it is used.

    As far as meetup I think the site was used as a temp place for people to coordinate and the actual website isn't run by any DORBA member as it is owned by a company in New York.

    If it were my personal information and or paypal information being used to start up the account then I would be careful about "turning it over".

    I think before accusations start flying it's probably a good idea to find out the facts first.

  15. #115
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    Facts are the guy who built and did not fix the unstable Drupal site is running the meetup site. He has admin control over the site.
    Facts are he could put a sticky at the top of every forum about joining dorba 'how to join dorba"

    So why hasn't he?

    Go over to the meet up site and request a sticky at the top of every forum. See how long it takes.
    Better yet, ask yourself why little to nothing has been done to promote dorba membership by the site admin.

    This is the same person who on meetup is posting about all the lost memberships.

    Does that make sense to anyone......

  16. #116
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    I don't know if those are facts. Sorry, but you stating something as fact doesn't mean that is the reality.

  17. #117
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    They are facts. You seem to be the only one who doesn't know them.
    Go look around on meetup and ask about what I stated if you don't believe it.
    Then you can come back here and verify that what I stated is accurate and truthful.
    Until then you are just wasting keystrokes, and my time.

  18. #118
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    For someone to post "FACTS" they usually verify it and something cross-referenced on another forum is hardly evidence to support anything. I can post -anything- with multiple accounts and according to your standard that is now fact.

    Glad you aren't a lawyer...

  19. #119
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    So the classic move the goal posts and matters what the definition of "is" is.

    Try educating yourself and thinking for yourself.

    So why is there no "join dorba" information clearly posted on meetup. Start there grasshopper.

  20. #120
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    Meetup has a joinup. I did start there. I am not the administration and neither are you. I don't know what is done with that information once you do JOIN THE CLUB ON MEETUP.

    The only fact is capitalized for emphasis since this guy must be an "insider" to know all the facts.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiway View Post
    Meetup has a joinup. I did start there. I am not the administration and neither are you. I don't know what is done with that information once you do JOIN THE CLUB ON MEETUP.

    The only fact is capitalized for emphasis since this guy must be an "insider" to know all the facts.
    Unless you've mailed in the application form with a check (http://files.meetup.com/3841722/DORB...lication_0.pdf) or have otherwise coordinated with the membership director for dues payment (email join.dorba@gmail.com), then you aren't a member of the club.

    If DORBA was collecting memberships through Meetup, then the whole website ordeal wouldn't be quite as big an issue.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buadyen View Post
    Unless you've mailed in the application form with a check (http://files.meetup.com/3841722/DORB...lication_0.pdf) or have otherwise coordinated with the membership director for dues payment (email join.dorba@gmail.com), then you aren't a member of the club.

    If DORBA was collecting memberships through Meetup, then the whole website ordeal wouldn't be quite as big an issue.

    I don't know what is done in regards to the information being gathered. So what you are saying is fact I take it? I haven't seen anything in regards to what you are saying.

    The point is half the people here are making assumptions without references to people who are in charge. Half of this mess was caused by the same backstabbing type comments that are meant to hurt and spread hate.

    Just stop the gossip and learn the facts.

    The meeting was held and they are moving FORWARD on the issue. Let it go.

    You lost ZERO in money over it anyway. The organization is still moving forward the best it can.

    Stop what iffing the past.

  23. #123
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    Dude, you should have just stop at the "I don't know."

    That is the only accurate thing you have written all day.

  24. #124
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    Hiway, why did you come here? You have added nothing. You have added no "facts" and you have proved nothing. The statements that have been made about the meetup site are fact. Unless you have proof as to their demise, don't tell us we are making assumptions.

    I was at the board meeting where the Meetup site was discussed in June, I reported what was discussed.

    DORBA will go on and survive past this, but those that have been hurling the biggest stones on the DORBA sites are the ones that self proclaim an unending love for DORBA and claim to be the biggest supporters yet they are also the ones causing the biggest stink and thus the ones that will push away the casual riders that are part of DORBA. If a company has **** going on, they keep the **** behind closed doors and paint as rosy of a picture as they can for the people buying their stock. The leadership of DORBA has not been doing this (the BOD or those that are the loudest) and therefore have only served to drive people away with their petty public bickering. Public bickering is not healthy for any company or organization.
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  25. #125
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    I came here to post my opinion and to remark that most of you, to include you, don't know all the in's and out's of why this or why that happened. That's the only fact.

    The fact is not one person here moaning and groaning about this (which is water under the bridge now anyway) has lost a single thing in regards to all this.

    If you don't like the leadership then go officially do something about it.

    Knight511 you are a hypocrite when you criticize public bickering, yet do it yourself here.

    Just let it go and as your quote says, "less moaning, more riding".

    Or my advice, would be vote with your feet if it irks you this much.

    I know I wouldn't miss most of you that get all panicky that your social website is down...

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiway View Post
    I came here to post my opinion and to remark that most of you, to include you, don't know all the in's and out's of why this or why that happened. That's the only fact.

    The fact is not one person here moaning and groaning about this (which is water under the bridge now anyway) has lost a single thing in regards to all this.

    If you don't like the leadership then go officially do something about it.

    Knight511 you are a hypocrite when you criticize public bickering, yet do it yourself here.

    I know I wouldn't miss most of you that get all panicky that your social website is down...
    ahh, so you are certain no one here has any knowledge outside of what you think you know? sounds a bit hypocritical

    the thing that has been lost is a giant chunk of memberships to a club many of us would like to see thrive and grow...so yeah, plenty of us are affected

    and how do you propose we do that at the current moment? coup d'etat?

    hes criticizing a GOVERNING BODY for these things, not another individual like himself, very valid criticism iyam

    miss us? that would be to assume you know us...but whatever you are trying to say, the feeling is mutual

  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by clewttu View Post
    ahh, so you are certain no one here has any knowledge outside of what you think you know? sounds a bit hypocritical

    the thing that has been lost is a giant chunk of memberships to a club many of us would like to see thrive and grow...so yeah, plenty of us are affected

    and how do you propose we do that at the current moment? coup d'etat?

    hes criticizing a GOVERNING BODY for these things, not another individual like himself, very valid criticism iyam

    miss us? that would be to assume you know us...but whatever you are trying to say, the feeling is mutual

    It is growing and thriving. I have been to and seen a lot of participation in regards to DORBA and the people I met face to face didn't moan and groan like the few here. I am somewhat amazed how quick people are to place blame on a volunteer group of people who are contributing their time FREE OF CHARGE as quickly as you folks do.

    Don't like it? Then run for leadership positions. Take your negativity to a meeting live and in person and see how this tone does for you.

    The explanations have been made and it seems to me I understand what happened, yet you still want to whine and cry about it.

    The bottom line there are steps in the process and progress is being made.

    Learn some patience, learn some manners, and learn to realize the environment here is NOT DORBA.

  28. #128
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    sigh....memberships are way down since the website has been unplugged, correct? for various reasons including autopay, no easy/online method of joining, difficult to find out how to join, etc, correct? or are you saying there are more current members today than January?....yeah, growing and thriving, sure, about 6 months ago that might have been true, but it is collapsing at the moment

    they CHOSE to volunteer their time, with that comes responsibility, and they are floundering....if the blame doesnt rest with the BOD then I guess its Santas or the Easter Bunnies fault....there wouldnt be issues had this been handled professionally, and in a reasonable amount of time, we are beyond that though

    im not being negative, just being a realist, you on the other hand are being a blind ******...i was there dealing with it and even defending it on here when the website was intermittently crashing....running for office is possible right now? sure, ill go do that after work...if there isnt a website by the time there is a new BOD then the current situation is beyond fubar

    im not whining or crying, on the contrary, im calling you out for such, your panties are in a wad cuz people are frustrated (with very good reason) with dorba

    you are basically acting like you know all the secrets, but have added nothing to the discourse

    progress is being made...at a snails pace, with extreme poor execution

    manners? if you actually had them, you wouldnt be getting dealt with like this...you asked for what you received

    im sure the kool aid they have you drinking is good, but open your eyes just a little bit, not everything is lolli pops and roses

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by clewttu View Post
    sigh....memberships are way down since the website has been unplugged, correct? for various reasons including autopay, no easy/online method of joining, difficult to find out how to join, etc, correct? or are you saying there are more current members today than January?....yeah, growing and thriving, sure, about 6 months ago that might have been true, but it is collapsing at the moment

    they CHOSE to volunteer their time, with that comes responsibility, and they are floundering....if the blame doesnt rest with the BOD then I guess its Santas or the Easter Bunnies fault....there wouldnt be issues had this been handled professionally, and in a reasonable amount of time, we are beyond that though

    im not being negative, just being a realist, you on the other hand are being a blind ******...i was there dealing with it and even defending it on here when the website was intermittently crashing....running for office is possible right now? sure, ill go do that after work...if there isnt a website by the time there is a new BOD then the current situation is beyond fubar

    im not whining or crying, on the contrary, im calling you out for such, your panties are in a wad cuz people are frustrated (with very good reason) with dorba

    you are basically acting like you know all the secrets, but have added nothing to the discourse

    progress is being made...at a snails pace, with extreme poor execution

    manners? if you actually had them, you wouldnt be getting dealt with like this...you asked for what you received

    im sure the kool aid they have you drinking is good, but open your eyes just a little bit, not everything is lolli pops and roses
    Now you are a mind reader I take it. I don't know any secrets. I know what I see and I saw a reasonable explanation of what happened. I also know that this loss of membership has had really no direct impact on you. What exactly did you lose? A trail? Your ability to ride a bike? You lose your bike?

    You really lost nothing, and people already explained what happened. I'm truly sorry that the volunteers that do this for NOTHING haven't jumped high enough and far enough for your pleasure.

    The mysterious loss to you is your excuse to blather on and on about how much has been lost and you do NOTHING about it in reality.

    Start a new organization then... For god sakes take the other guy with you. Have a party!

  30. #130
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    Contrary to your belief, the volunteers that are crying the loudest on DORBA's sites are the ones that fuel their egos from what they do, so to say they get NOTHING is not true.

    Those of us that truly get nothing are the ones that volunteer at our trails, silently, and take care of them as best we can with nothing in return... wait.. that isn't true... I get to ride my trail and help keep it open, so I get something in return for my service.

    The idea that people get NOTHING (caps just like you have repeated) is just plain stupid.... we ALL gain things through DORBA by simply riding the trails. Some get more from DORBA in the way of feeding an ego... those are the ones that have been a problem IMHO. Notice how there is still no site... there has been no news about any site, but now that one of their own "got" the bid, they are all quiet and are no longer making any demands? Yeah.... they get nothing from what they do.

    FWIW, our problems with DORBA have little to do with the BOD as they have been working hard and are doing the best they can in between the rest of their lives.... the problem are with those that have been making the most noise.... the ones that have really hurt the public image of DORBA.... not the BOD, they have been silent while they try to get things taken care of and are actually DOING something for "nothing."
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    They already have talked about the site status at the last meeting. Did you attend? Did you go to the official source stating what was discussed?

    From what you are stating it appears you haven't.

    Fueling their egos... Let's just say that's got to be the most absurd thing I have read on the internet in a long long time...

    Incredible...

    Edit: Last month spent 12 hours or so on two trails trimming, fixing signs, and removing glass. And I don't log hours with DORBA. I just do it.

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    So a guy banned from DORBA is now the one to call out to others who should be ignored...

    Epic...

  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiway View Post
    Now you are a mind reader I take it. I don't know any secrets. I know what I see and I saw a reasonable explanation of what happened. I also know that this loss of membership has had really no direct impact on you. What exactly did you lose? A trail? Your ability to ride a bike? You lose your bike?

    You really lost nothing, and people already explained what happened. I'm truly sorry that the volunteers that do this for NOTHING haven't jumped high enough and far enough for your pleasure.

    The mysterious loss to you is your excuse to blather on and on about how much has been lost and you do NOTHING about it in reality.

    Start a new organization then... For god sakes take the other guy with you. Have a party!
    Im no mind reader, you just keep claiming that no one here knows anything, and give the impression you do, apologies if I misread you

    The organization i have paid money to as well as worked trails for is losing, i consider that me losing...maybe you are fine with large membership losses, but someone has to pay the bills right? doesnt please me one bit

    what can i do? i go out, trim the trails i ride, move fallen trees, etc...i have no power over the leadership that makes the decisions

  34. #134
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    No I am fine with understanding volunteer organizations and know how sometimes things happen and move on.

    I see DORBA making progress and learning from their past.

    I don't dwell on something that does nothing to move on.

    You do have power as a member. If you really want something done then pay for the website if it's that important to you, or research a better solution that is more than saying the leadership sucks.

    I see really no tangible suggestions to fix the problem and a willful ignorance of what is currently happening in regards to the issue.

    You too can run for office or suggest in a meeting for a change of leadership. Do the work, make the effort to garner support for your suggestions and make it happen.

    If it's that bad then it should be obvious to the common member that you are right...

  35. #135
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    i did pay for it, it was a part of my yearly dues
    i guess ultimately, you just want zero discourse on this
    until you came in, this thread had "moved on", why are you still dwelling?

    i couldnt give a shlt if there is another website anymore...no website means i keep 30 bucks and help keep the trails i ride clear...but i do have a problem with people who dont know anything come in and tell others who might that they know nothing, and not in a constructive manner

  36. #136
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    And your posts attacking me are constructive I take it?

    I simply stated that the guy ranting wasn't being fair and didn't know the full story of what happened. I see negativity littered through this forum by you and a few others.

    THANKFULLY the rest of DORBA in person is totally the opposite of a few who are here and one with a history of being banned from the old forums.

    So far my appraisal is I am very happy with DORBA and the majority of members. The leadership is moving on and things are looking up.

    Happy here.

    Also the fact is you can still be a DORBA member and contribute. The website isn't the only thing funded by the dues, but whatever makes you happy...

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiway View Post
    They already have talked about the site status at the last meeting. Did you attend? Did you go to the official source stating what was discussed?

    From what you are stating it appears you haven't.
    I didn't go and don't care about the site. If you have really read anything, my problem isn't with the lack of site, it has to do with the personalities of those that speak the most and loudest if they don't get their way.

    Fueling their egos... Let's just say that's got to be the most absurd thing I have read on the internet in a long long time...
    You must not read much do you?

    Incredible...
    This has been good weather for August... but unless you are talking about incredibly humid, I don't think I get you.

    Edit: Last month spent 12 hours or so on two trails trimming, fixing signs, and removing glass. And I don't log hours with DORBA. I just do it.
    I have spent a lot of time working on my trail since it got hot and dry (not much to do when nothing grows and there is no water damage to fix). Like you, however, I don't log my hours and don't care to. I logged a couple of days worth back in the spriing but then thought about how silly it was since I didn't care what others thought or about getting a pat on the back... I just want to ride.
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    I don't read too much into an anonymous forum where people aren't accountable for what they say. On that account you are right.

    I tend to gravitate to the real and to meet some nice people face to face. I have many new friends due to this and not focusing on some anon forum on the interweb...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiway View Post
    I don't read too much into an anonymous forum where people aren't accountable for what they say. On that account you are right.
    Why you got to hate on DORBA?

    I tend to gravitate to the real and to meet some nice people face to face. I have many new friends due to this and not focusing on some anon forum on the interweb...
    This is the reason I joined DORBA again... I was hoping for what existed the last time I had time to ride... and it just isn't the case. DORBA 2.0 didn't have a whole lot going on to meet people... if you weren't into racing, you had no place. DORBA use to be a VERY friendly lace for the casual rider, and it just doesn't seem like it is anymore. Kind of makes me sad actually...
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    I'm confused there has been tons of meetups with DORBA members over the summer. I have attended 4 so far and I have only partial weekends off.

    Those official meetups have resulting in riding with some guys on Thurs nights sometimes and other odd and ends to clean trails or just hang out and drink a beer.

    It's all what you put into it.

  41. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiway View Post
    And your posts attacking me are constructive I take it?

    Also the fact is you can still be a DORBA member and contribute. The website isn't the only thing funded by the dues, but whatever makes you happy...
    they arent meant to be, as they came after the fact
    i do and i am a current member, almost every ride im on i have trimmers in my bag and get something accomplished, ntm the times i go in purely to clean up the trails i ride sans bike...the website was just where my dollars were tangibly put to use for me

  42. #142
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    Much much more is bought and paid for by the dues that have a more tangible result in my understanding.

  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiway View Post
    I'm confused there has been tons of meetups with DORBA members over the summer. I have attended 4 so far and I have only partial weekends off.

    Those official meetups have resulting in riding with some guys on Thurs nights sometimes and other odd and ends to clean trails or just hang out and drink a beer.
    Maybe that is part of the problem for me. The meet ups that have been posted (but where as there currently isn't a single place to find rides and such) have mostly been during the week and far north (just like the August BOD meeting that there was no way for me to get to after work).

    It's all what you put into it.
    This may be true, but it is hard to put much in when there isn't a cohesive forum to do so. I have said a few times that what most people seem to be looking for and griping about is the lack of a single forum to "hang out" at and get stuff organized. Facebook is a terrible format for discussing anything... it is the equivalent of social vomit due to the lack of organization. Meetup isn't much more active either... short of clinics and week night rides I can't get to because of work, I just don't see much for a casual rider to do.

    Once it cools off, I will try to be more proactive. I hope we have a single place by then to post... but I will try to get some organized fat ass rides down south on the weekends... maybe there will be some interest.
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  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiway View Post
    Much much more is bought and paid for by the dues that have a more tangible result in my understanding.
    I think DORBA could benefit from being more transparent to those that aren't "in the loop." Some "your dollars in action" discussions and such so people can see where their money goes. As I have learned from many other organizations, there is a LOT of mistrust when no one can clearly see where money goes. I am sure there are documents or something that are legally required for the 501c (501, right?), but in my time on DORBA 2.0, I never came across any mentions as to how money was spent.

    Considering I use my own "lawn" equipment while working on the trail, I don't see any tangible benefit for myself.... I am sure this is how others feel as well. DORBA could really benefit from some advertising for themselves and some added transparency.
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  45. #145
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    i completely agree it doesnt go to just the website
    in the past, id bet very little of it did actually...but it was my way of saying thanks for letting me use the site...i dont race, go to skills clinics, group rides, etc so funding that isnt important to me
    actually, if i could donate money now (without a website) and know it was going strictly to maintaining my main trails only, id donate to that...but its going to many things that mean nothing to me at the moment so there isnt an impetus for me to renew currently

  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight511 View Post
    I think DORBA could benefit from being more transparent
    this is what it all comes down to pretty much

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    I hear you, but I also understand the situation and guess I'm not as critical due to it being a volunteer organization.

    I understand many are frustrated, but I guess I'm too old to really understand since the whole social online scene to me is just icing and I like cake without frosting.

    I like going to real meetings and events.

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    My real gripes about a lack of site all ended with dallastrails putting up the status page and I was blasted pretty harsh by some of the loud talkers on the FB DORBA page for only being interested in trail status. It was pretty clear that the only thing that mattered to them was race registration and the potential loss we were suffering on that. To be honest, I never saw much real traffic on the DORBA forums... for as much complaining as there has been in the multiple locations, folks sure weren't all too active on the site itself.

    So.... Thinking forward to the fall and possibly a new bike... I am digging the Trek Stache... a little tougher for me and a little more relaxed geometry.... can't wait to put my hands on one at the store!
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  49. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiway View Post
    So a guy banned from DORBA is now the one to call out to others who should be ignored...

    Epic...
    Wow, someone was banned?
    Nobody cares...........

  50. #150
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    One thing I always found funny about DORBA is the incessant "thank yous" handed out by some members. They fail all over themselves thanking people even when they fail over and over and over.

    There is some feedback loop whereby they experience group feelgoodism with total disregard for performance. It is as they create an alternate reality. Truthfully, I've seen this in other non-profits as well. Must go hand in hand with non-profits and be somehow related to the non-reality of their situation.
    Nobody cares...........

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    I got banned for pointing out the Mike could have fixed things while he was on the board.
    I also invoked the name of cap carter and that was the final straw. You did the cap carter thing too if I remember.
    Criterion for being banned is asking questions and pointing out stupidity. Plus the sarcasm I guess. I kept telling Mike that his situation was truly sad.
    It's all in the first few pages of the dorba transition thread.

  52. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiway View Post
    It is growing and thriving. I have been to and seen a lot of participation in regards to DORBA and the people I met face to face didn't moan and groan like the few here. I am somewhat amazed how quick people are to place blame on a volunteer group of people who are contributing their time FREE OF CHARGE as quickly as you folks do.

    Don't like it? Then run for leadership positions. Take your negativity to a meeting live and in person and see how this tone does for you.

    The explanations have been made and it seems to me I understand what happened, yet you still want to whine and cry about it.

    The bottom line there are steps in the process and progress is being made.

    Learn some patience, learn some manners, and learn to realize the environment here is NOT DORBA.


    There is no way it is growing like it was, simply given the fact that there is no longer an online membership mechanism. Print and fill out a form and mail it in with a check!? Welcome back to the 80s. Who can say how many people have chosen not to renew, or how many new people decided not join in the first place as a result of this fiasco?

    And, it has been many things, but "quick" certainly isn't one of them; the decision to "go a different direction" and build a new webpage (rather than update the 2.0 version) was made in January; the site crashed in June. We are nearly into September.

    There are *lots* of totally volunteer MTB clubs and organizations out there that run just fine; the fact that DORBA is 100% volunteer doesn't excuse it from all criticism. And just because the person criticizing is not in a "leadership position", doesn't mean that their criticism is invalid. This is like saying that unless you are prepared to run for President of the US, you don't have a right to disagree with the job he is doing.

    Face it, DORBA deserves a bit of criticism in how this was (mis)managed. Only key individuals know exactly how much, but certainly club funds were squandered on this fiasco. And while it is true that hind-sight is 20/20 and criticism won't fix anything at this point, neither will getting on your high horse and talking down to the people who do feel the need to share their opinions on the matter.

    Let's all try to find some middle ground here - somewhere between pointless complaining and carte-blanc approval.
    Mind your own religion.

  53. #153
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    Mike did " ban" my static home ip from dorba.org but i was never banned from the org. It was funny as he never realized how ineffective banning by ip is.

    Poor guy after meetup this is like three tries at a website, at least this one will be backed for him. I cant believe they think he was seccessful given that none of the prior attempts ever endured, Rich thinks I am an idiot for making that a reqirement for success.
    Nobody cares...........

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    All right... I remember the name Capt Carter but don't remember why. Anyone want to give me a history lesson to refresh my memory?
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  55. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by chas_martel View Post
    There is some feedback loop whereby they experience group feelgoodism with total disregard for performance. It is as they create an alternate reality. Truthfully, I've seen this in other non-profits as well. Must go hand in hand with non-profits and be somehow related to the non-reality of their situation.
    Goes in my column of ego stroking.
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  56. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight511 View Post
    Goes in my column of ego stroking.
    So what? Maybe i am being an egotist? At least l am pointing out substitive issues that are at the root of the failure.

    Are you one of those people that fawn over the people making mistakes over and over again?
    Nobody cares...........

  57. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by chas_martel View Post
    So what? Maybe i am being an egotist? At least l am pointing out substitive issues that are at the root of the failure.

    Are you one of those people that fawn over the people making mistakes over and over again?
    I read his statement differently. I didn't think his response was directed at you. Rather, it was directed at the people in the situation you described. I may be out in left field on this, though....

  58. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by chas_martel View Post
    Mike did " ban" my static home ip from dorba.org but i was never banned from the org. It was funny as he never realized how ineffective banning by ip is.

    Poor guy after meetup this is like three tries at a website, at least this one will be backed for him. I cant believe they think he was seccessful given that none of the prior attempts ever endured, Rich thinks I am an idiot for making that a reqirement for success.
    I was out for like 2 minutes
    ipconfig /release

    Then I was right back onsite, but I did not rejoin. What's the point of joining, right.

  59. #159
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    +1 I think knight was agreeing with you. So our own little ego stroking circle. Oh, the irony

  60. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight511 View Post
    All right... I remember the name Capt Carter but don't remember why. Anyone want to give me a history lesson to refresh my memory?
    That could take days.

    Let's just say that he was thought of as the devil by groups who took over Dorba a few years back.
    He allegedly used position and influence in Dorba for personal gains.
    He was accused of being the backdoor hacker taking the old site down no matter what was tried to keep him out.
    The one crash was due to the new dorba board not paying the hosting site. They still blamed cap somehow.
    Good times.
    Everyone has a side. My main issue has always been timely trail reports. The rest of the site and politics involved isn't anything I want to deal with.
    Issue here is that the politics/ego's got in the way of keeping the average recreational rider on the trails.
    So here we are.
    One site -dallastrails.org- now being used for about half of the trails.
    Some updates on meetup.
    Individual twitter and facebook pages.
    Other forums, like FWMBA.org.
    Some chaos, but its sort of fun chasing all the links down to update MTBR.
    Also why I linked things so everyone can check the info I check on in case I am not able to update immediately.

  61. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by chas_martel View Post
    So what? Maybe i am being an egotist? At least l am pointing out substitive issues that are at the root of the failure.

    Are you one of those people that fawn over the people making mistakes over and over again?
    I wasn't talking about you... but the feelgood loop that you pointed out... all the thank yous and ego stroking on DORBA...
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    I almost missed DORBA 2.0 entirely... I guess I was involved back with 1.0 and only caught the tail end of 2.0 (I may have had 10 posts).

    I agree with odtexas entirely. The most important aspect of DORBA are the trail status and the support of the trails. Of the 800 remaining members, it is not a majority of people that race or want to do anything except help support a good cause and to keep the trails open. Anything beyond that, really needs to take a back seat, but the politics would NEVER let that happen.
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  63. #163
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    For the record Im not taking any of this personally. Im good with everyone and truly think everyone wants to see DORBA succeed. I do remain frustrated as I put in much effort and time. To see all the missteps and mistakes for poor reasons drives me nutz.

    I sure wish it was dry this weeknd, i could use a good ride. I think I am off for a wet run in the dark this evening.
    Nobody cares...........

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight511 View Post
    And to see one of the lead contenders for the new site still wanting to run Drupal blows my mind. In my untrained opinion, that back end is a POS that needs to DIAF. It couldn't handle the load then, what makes people think it will stay up in the coming years?
    Drupal handles the whitehouse website with millions of hits monthly just fine. I believe it's the combination of the hosting server and configuration issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight511 View Post
    Any of you folks ride on the south side of town and don't mind a fat guy tagging along, hit me up, I am always down for meeting some new folks and getting a ride in.
    I live near the park, maybe we can go ride sometimes.

  65. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by odtexas View Post
    So here we are.
    One site -dallastrails.org- now being used for about half of the trails.
    Some updates on meetup.
    Individual twitter and facebook pages.
    Other forums, like FWMBA.org.
    Some chaos, but its sort of fun chasing all the links down to update MTBR.
    Also why I linked things so everyone can check the info I check on in case I am not able to update immediately.
    Thank you for your efforts, because I usually look for your trail report/updates before heading out to the trails.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoostFab View Post
    I live near the park, maybe we can go ride sometimes.
    Once it cools a bit, I am going to post up some "fat guy" rides out at CHSP... I am not as bad as I make it out to be, but I do have to stop a couple of times to stretch my knees a bit. I will keep you posted... I try to ride some during the week (mornings) but I have a flexible work schedule.... I will try so evening rides too.
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  67. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight511 View Post
    Once it cools a bit, I am going to post up some "fat guy" rides out at CHSP... I am not as bad as I make it out to be, but I do have to stop a couple of times to stretch my knees a bit. I will keep you posted... I try to ride some during the week (mornings) but I have a flexible work schedule.... I will try so evening rides too.
    if ur on the south side why waste ur time with chsp? i wish i was on the south side as bc would be my home trail.
    Nobody cares...........

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    Nostalgia for the most part. I grew up riding CHSP (trail head was 13 miles from my mom's front door, so I could ride to it). I also keep a pass to the state parks as my wife and I thoroughly enjoy hiking, so CHSP is pretty much free for me. The final reason is because the person I ride with sometimes is a CHSP fan, so if I have a riding buddy, I will ride where ever they want to. Riding alone is not nearly as much fun.

    I haven't been to BC as it didn't exist when I was riding last... I will eventually get over to it.
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  69. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight511 View Post
    I haven't been to BC as it didn't exist when I was riding last... I will eventually get over to it.
    Ah. Sorry, did not realize you'd just gotten into, or back into, riding. BC is very close to chsp and is the best trail in north Texas IMO. Lots of variety there, lots of climbing as well. Let me know and I can give you a tour if you want. It is my favorite trail but I live in north Dallas so it is a pain to get there especially during the week. My week day trail is north shore, west side preferably. I'm an old fart, 50, but I still enjoy the challenges of the tech west side of ns.
    Nobody cares...........

  70. #170
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    the dorba site is waaaayyy better than the ghorba. ghorba forums in particular.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chas_martel View Post
    Ah. Sorry, did not realize you'd just gotten into, or back into, riding. BC is very close to chsp and is the best trail in north Texas IMO. Lots of variety there, lots of climbing as well. Let me know and I can give you a tour if you want. It is my favorite trail but I live in north Dallas so it is a pain to get there especially during the week. My week day trail is north shore, west side preferably. I'm an old fart, 50, but I still enjoy the challenges of the tech west side of ns.
    50.... bet you can still beat the crap out of this 32 year old. I have only ridden NS twice. The first time, I ended the ride by taking a nasty fall in a sand trap.... the second ride was really nice because I was chasing a much more skilled and fit rider and was keeping up pretty well. I will try again some day, but it is hard to drive that far when I have some good stuff nearby. I figure I will stick with CHSP until I get a new bike (Octoberish?) because I have learned my current ride is great, but the fork is WAY under sprung for me and makes technical stuff suck.I know CHSP pretty well so it makes for a decent work out. Shooting to lose another 15-20 pounds before my birthday in October.... shouldn't be hard, I have plenty of extra.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill in Houston View Post
    the dorba site is waaaayyy better than the ghorba. ghorba forums in particular.
    GHORBA is working on it's forums and has an update coming out shortly, but the two sites aren't even on a comparable level. Beyond a calendar and a message board the DORBA site presents no information to the user.

  73. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight511 View Post
    Shooting to lose another 15-20 pounds before my birthday in October.... shouldn't be hard, I have plenty of extra.
    Go for it and good luck.

    I am down 30 lbs or more since my early 40's. Changes your life.

    Not to offend you in telling you how to mind your business but pay attention to what you
    eat and drink. Yeah, you probably already know that...................................
    Nobody cares...........

  74. #174
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    DORBA's newest member

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    Quote Originally Posted by chas_martel View Post
    Not to offend you in telling you how to mind your business but pay attention to what youeat and drink. Yeah, you probably already know that...................................


    If I told you that I am married to a licensed/registered dietician, would you have mercy on my soul? I am actually down about 12 for the year. The only thing I drink with calories is skim milk from time to time and Dr Pepper 10 (as I am addicted to caffeine and can't stand coffee). Once I am riding again, I should start losing again... I have been holding steady for about 2 months since it got way too hot for my fat ass to ride (and maintain the 7 yards a week I am responsible for... yards come first since they pay for the hobby). and no... I am not easily offended.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motemis View Post
    DORBA's newest member
    Welcome aboard.... there is a bridge out on the tracks ahead....
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  77. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdole View Post
    Beyond a calendar and a message board the DORBA site presents no information to the user.
    On Dorba I see group rides, training clinics, trail maintenance days, trail conditions, and decent forums. I also see those on GHORBA. What else does GHORBA have that I am missing, that could not be posted in a forum sticky? I admit that the GHORBA site is above my level of intelligence and ability to take in information, and hope that you can help me understand it better.

  78. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill in Houston View Post
    On Dorba I see group rides, training clinics, trail maintenance days, trail conditions, and decent forums. I also see those on GHORBA. What else does GHORBA have that I am missing, that could not be posted in a forum sticky? I admit that the GHORBA site is above my level of intelligence and ability to take in information, and hope that you can help me understand it better.
    Sorry, not going to play that game.

  79. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdole View Post
    GHORBA is working on it's forums and has an update coming out shortly, but the two sites aren't even on a comparable level. Beyond a calendar and a message board the DORBA site presents no information to the user.
    Quote Originally Posted by bobdole View Post
    Sorry, not going to play that game.
    Okay, no problem. Looking forward to the next iteration of the site.

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    Update from Clint Tredway on the FaceBook site (8/28/2012):

    Ok, figured everyone deserves an update.
    The contract between DORBA and my self was signed 2 days ago. What does that mean? In 2 weeks or less phase 1 will be up and running. That is trail info/status and the forum (some other stuff but its a bit more technical). Could be up sooner than 2 weeks but 2 weeks is the deadline. I will answer questions minus 'Is it done yet' lol.. but seriously.. the deadline is set and it is now public knowledge. See you on the trails..
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/dorba/

  81. #181
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    Newest update from the FB page:
    Tuesday sept 11th is the two week timeline/deadline before contractual penalties kick in.

  82. #182
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    New Dorba beta up and running.

    Worth checking out.

    Only unfortunate thing so far is Johnny, I think he is the vice president and this is how he chooses to represent Dorba to the public.


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    Good family friendly fun there, right?
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  84. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by odtexas View Post
    New Dorba beta up and running.

    Worth checking out.

    Only unfortunate thing so far is Johnny, I think he is the vice president and this is how he chooses to represent Dorba to the public.
    He's the current VP of Operations, yes...

  85. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by odtexas View Post
    New Dorba beta up and running.

    Worth checking out.

    Only unfortunate thing so far is Johnny, I think he is the vice president and this is how he chooses to represent Dorba to the public.


    funny, i used to look like that
    "who's pushing the pedals on the season cycle?" -xtc

  86. #186
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    And it is PERFECT since he made the post about how to join....

    Any parent that thinks it is a good family type group to join will at least have plenty of warning....
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  87. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by phatphil View Post
    funny, i used to look like that
    Now that is funny!
    Nobody cares...........

  88. #188
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    Wow.. at lot of **** stirred in here. This could get real interesting.

    I am the "developer" and former BOD member (2 years ago) that built the previous DORBA site. I'll answer any questions you might have about what I know from my perspective on the events covered in this thread.

    There are so many inaccuracies already published already and I don't have time to address them all. Suffice it to say this is not how I wanted this to turn out and I never imagined that what we had would be totally thrown out without a viable replacement in hand. I did seek out an expert in CiviCIRM, Drupal, and large site scaling to do the tuning to the site to keep it running with the increasing traffic and load but it was made clear to me by Pam Jackson that she wanted to go in a "new direction".

    The old site is still running. The BOD and membership director use it to maintain things the best they can. It just can't handle the public traffic. It needs help and looks like it won't get it.

    Anyway, if you care to ask I will try to answer as truthfully as my recollection allows. I have nothing to hide and only wish I had the skills to scale the site. Were that the case it would still be running and a lot of this drama would only be just that. Unfortunately a good club is taking some lumps. But the good things is that the important components... the people, the trails, and good times are still there.
    Last edited by Solo, with others; 09-17-2012 at 02:20 PM.

  89. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by brewrider View Post
    Drupal isn't necessarily the problem. Some much larger and much busier sites run on it. The problem with Drupal is that less skilled / less dedicated people can really make a mess of it. With Drupal, it's a lot more about the coders than other CMS platforms. Honestly, I think a really good PHP & Drupal guy could have fixed the problems they had. A good MySQL DBA would probably need to examine the database too. That doesn't solve the problem though since you really can't just code these things and leave it alone. It needs routine code maintenance. Few things of any complexity work that way. It sounded to me like the people who were working on the old site knew what the problems were and how to fix them, but they were not allowed to go forward with the fixes. Instead, the powers that be wanted to make a radical change. I guess they thought they'd be throwing good money after bad.

    IMO, they should have been working on the old site to keep it on life support AND a new site if that's the direction they wanted to go. You don't just shut down and hope the new site comes through on time. This is the business I'm in. This stuff never gets done on time...
    This makes sense to me.

  90. #190
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    We should probably start a new DORBA thread and let this one die. I hope that given some time, things will calm a bit over there but there is too much drama right now. People claim that is just part of DORBA, but it really detracts from how good DORBA could be. Some moderation would go a long way over there... it is the most bipolar club I have been a part of.
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    No need to close this thread down. In fact, having the rebuttal in it seems to me be the best place to maintain the information.

    You have the opportunity to get a different side of the story from someone, who in this thread at least, has been spoken of negatively. Why not ask the direct questions instead of repeating hear-say and gossip?

  92. #192
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    Who is odtexas?
    Definitely doesn't have some of his facts straight.
    But hey, the internets are for drama.

  93. #193
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    I'm figuring he's not now going to way to assert what he earlier presented as fact. That stand just fine by me and save me some time.

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    Like you are attempting to stir up now. Nicely played...
    odtexas is the guy that guy who got scott his first ride on a 29er at sid richards a few years back.
    So I am guessing that you pigs and dawgs are showing up here for the first posts in years since you are no longer in control of the dorba site. Just remember that here you can't get away all the drama that solo allowed on the now old and dead drupal site.
    Besides the picture of Johnny speaks for itself. No half truths. Just a bunch of past their prime racers who never matured past their ego's.

  95. #195
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    Thought I recognized that handle! Holy crap, it's been a long time. BTW, I did end up getting a 29er and I'm loving it. I still dig my 650B ride, but the 29er is a ton of fun.

    Anyway, I just saw this thread.. I am unfortunately a facebook junkie. And there's enough silliness there to satisfy anyone.

    For the record, I'm just interested in hearing the other side of the story. I haven't been in the loop on most of this having come around after the DD started, and even as race director I had my plate full dealing with races and sponsors, so I didn't get to hear all the gossip.

  96. #196
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    WOW. I am truly amazed at the amount of hate out there for a bunch of guys who only wanted to be able to type foul manwords and objected to a sexually discriminatory forum.
    Big Pigs IS A KITWEARING RACING TEAM. Get over it, if you werent an A$$, they might have invited you, ( I never received mine). I dont know or care why DORBA's website failed, but it is not because of a bunch of dudes drinking PLB's and dropping EFBombs after a ride.
    I lived in Dallas from 98 to 11 and saw more generousity, and am still seeing it, from the Dirt Dawgs than any other DORBA "Clique". I am willing to admit my view may be biased, but then so is everyones. The air here is thinner and so is the drama.
    Oh, and just to be sure I read correctly, one of you guys searched a forum for the word "Gay"? If so, thats pretty freakin ghey, and not in the cool well dressed homosexual kinda way but the surgically removed pickle jar kinda way.
    Peace.

  97. #197
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    I have no problem with someone disagreeing with how I do things. I do have a problem with someone misrepresenting facts.

    At this point, after having skimmed this thread I will call odtexas' overall characterization and most of what he presents as fact here to not be the case. Some seems to be out of some agenda, the other looks to be misinformation or confusion due to hearsay.

    That being said, I will answer any questions or accusations odtexas or anyone still interested may have.

    Mike

  98. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by odtexas View Post
    Like you are attempting to stir up now. Nicely played...
    odtexas is the guy that guy who got scott his first ride on a 29er at sid richards a few years back.
    So I am guessing that you pigs and dawgs are showing up here for the first posts in years since you are no longer in control of the dorba site. Just remember that here you can't get away all the drama that solo allowed on the now old and dead drupal site.
    Besides the picture of Johnny speaks for itself. No half truths. Just a bunch of past their prime racers who never matured past their ego's.
    DORBA grew under the leadership of the dirtdawgs and Big Pigs. The DORBA website died under the leadership of Pam Jackson (current president).

    Big Pigs show up at racing events, but to call them a racing team is overstating it. They are a club. They enjoy riding and competing... and beer (most of them - Rich, the founder of Big Pigs and former president of DORBA, doesn't drink.) They wear black and white kits with no sponsors on them. The majority of them do not shave their legs. You will see a lot of Big Pigs in the results of local races, but they do not dominate the podium. They just don't take it that seriously. They are a group of people connected through a common interest.

    The dirtdawgs are simply a group of guys who enjoy an internet forum where you can say bad words and post questionable photos. The Tuesday Night Single Speed group ride out at RCP was started by dirtdawgs. The group has changed over the years, but it still has a core. It's not nearly the collection of misfits it once was. We got older, got married, had kids, moved away.

    You have misrepresented nearly every organization you have mentioned. I don't know you, and I know the majority of the dirtdawgs and Big Pigs. I have no idea where you are getting your information, but you are wrong.

  99. #199
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    Goonie for Pres.

  100. #200
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    Dorba 2.0 gone. Crashed and burned.
    Trails thread here over 20,000 hits since Dorba was unstable.
    Think of it as 20,000 rides not missed due to solo's inability to stabilize his platform.
    Not much more need to be said than that. Facts speak for themselves.
    "So I am guessing that you pigs and dawgs are showing up here for the first posts in years since you are no longer in control of the dorba site."

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