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  1. #1
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    Your thoughts on these forks for my C-Dale

    Hey Guys it's now time to find myself a fork for my MT800
    98% of the time I ride with my daughter so team weight is under 270 lbs No jumps or big drops last time I posted I was hoping to find something that will use the V brakes so I can keep the stock wheels but from the looks of it the best way is just to do it right and go Disc.

    I have looked at the DJ forks and was also looking at a '11 ROCK SHOX PIKE 426 U TURN COIL 95-140mm new on ebay for $299 and a '11 Argyle RC COIL 2011 100mm same price.
    I am also opened to used Fox forks

    I am trying to spend under $1000 for forks wheels and Avid BB7's any help would be great!!

  2. #2
    PMK
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    I now they get a bad critique from tandem teams, but I say go with an ATC modified to a wet style fork.

    The ATC gives you options of running a quick release wheel or 20mm axle wheel. You can also run it with cantilevers or discs.

    Plus it is super easy to work on.

    PK
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  3. #3
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    I've been running an RS Argyle on our tandem for a few years and it seems to be doing a good job with minimal complaints. It is pretty heavy as it has steel 32mm stanchions, but that is part of the reason I bought it. I figured with the steel stanchions, I'd gain some stiffness, at least for a single crown fork.

    I think the Pike wouldn't be stiff enough for tandem use, unless you're not riding rough off-road stuff, but just using it to "take the edge off" of light singletrack, double track or gravel roads.

  4. #4
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    Now that I looked at the ATC site I do like the idea of being able to work on the fork myself but I also like the idea of keeping my wheels for now and keeping the cost down and it's Tandem ready.
    on the other hand if I went with a RS Argyle or a DJ2 I would upgrade to Disc not that I am doing the speeds that make them a must have but they would look good lol........
    Paul do you know if I can download the manual for the ATC I didn't see anything on the web site?

    TFR what is your team weight using the RS and is that fork Air or Coil?

  5. #5
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    300'ish (and dropping ). It is a coil. Seems to be OK for us, but not much heavier could ride with a coil without getting a custom spring wound.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Fubar Rider View Post
    300'ish (and dropping ). It is a coil. Seems to be OK for us, but not much heavier could ride with a coil without getting a custom spring wound.
    Thanks

  7. #7
    PMK
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    I have an ATC manual at home. Can you wait a few days until I get home and scan it?

    PK
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    I have an ATC manual at home. Can you wait a few days until I get home and scan it?

    PK
    Sure Thanks!
    I sent ATC an email the other day looking for one and to get more info

  9. #9
    PMK
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    As the owner of three of these forks, and had them torn down to the smallest components, here is a quick description of them.

    These are an old school style cartridge fork. Very similar to a Rock Shox Judy series or Cartridge style Manitou forks.

    If the fork is kept stock, they are more similar to the Manitou in that they have grease prots where you simply give them a squirt of grease.

    The cartridges are for damping have proven better in longevity and simplicity. Where Rock Shox and Manitou built a flexy set of fork legs and a closer tolerance thru shaft style damper, they don't work well together on account of the entirely different flex properties, The damper is strained to flex with the fork legs, and in turn will leak easily on account of the bending forces on the damper shaft. Also, being a thru shaft design, both ends of the damper shaft are supported, compounding matters.

    The ATC is not a through shaft, This allows it to handle flex better and the damper can match what little flex the forks do show, which is almost none based on the design being larger diameter thinner walled aluminum legs.

    The fork is possibly the best fork for no flex. The fork is coil sprung, while heavier it is reliable with a small weight penalty. I have considered making one of ours converted to an air spring, I opted not to, based on how often tandems suffer air spring failures. Not everyday, but for comparison coil springs fail far less often.


    The ATC is not a perfect fork. It is however easily and inexpensively made much better than stock.

    Our best ATC has been converted from a greased type fork to a wet fork similar to a FOX 40. The modifications are not difficult, and the 10 required parts are easily procured. In building a light 100% machined billet fork, I found the triple clamps can tend to pinch the fork tubes. The book spec on torque is very low, so they can be overtightened with no effort. I have converted our forks to a style with crush spacers. This allows better fork tube clamping with no risk of distortion to the tubes.

    Also, for us on the tandem, I changed damping fluid to something more viscous. While I had the damper apart, I made a simple modification to allow easy consistent bleeds. This mod, while not required, made the fork cartridge similar in some ways to that of a Twin Chamber fork on a current day motocross machine.

    The last change, and again inexpensive, was to make the fork follow terrain with less deflection AND get much better small bump compliance, the upper fork tubes were smoothed. This involves polishing while still leaving the hard coat anodize layer. To supplement this, a softer negative spring was installed.

    All up for parts to make this a really good tandem fork is about $15. The upgrades are easy, and could be done in stages. For your team weight the damper fluid change and mod could be held off and also the polishing of the fork tubes. The rest is super easy and could be done in an hour or two max.

    I have modified one of these forks for Alex. I am not sure his intentions for it, but did know it had been ridden. Maybe give him a call to see if he will sell it. That fork though does have 20mm axle so it would need to be changed to 9mm.

    PK
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  10. #10
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    Thanks for the input Paul bty Dean just sent me the info on the forks they do look easy to keep up

  11. #11
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    Dj 2

    I picked up a DJ2 (9mm QR) for about $150. I liked it much better than the C'dale moto we had before. I ride commuting and moderate (sometimes not moderate) trails with my 6 yr old. After 6 months it started leaking. I sent it in to Marzocchi and they determined that it needed to be replaced due to a manufacturing problem. The new one is on the way.

  12. #12
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    Still looking at a 2004 DJ 1 I think I would be better off with the 20mm a local guy has one on ebay.
    If it don't sell I might get him to go to $100-125

    2004 Marzocchi Dirt Jumper I | eBay

  13. #13
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    I'm trying an experiment this weekend, if it works I will have a new in box DJ2 for sale very cheap.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trails4Two View Post
    I'm trying an experiment this weekend, if it works I will have a new in box DJ2 for sale very cheap.
    Sounds like someone got a new fork....... It looks like I'm on Hold for now

  15. #15
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    I'm actually going to try converting the front of our mt3000 to a 29" wheel/fork...we'll see.

  16. #16
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    Any update on this? I wanted to update the forks on my MT800 and I have no idea what would be the best option (for the best price).

  17. #17
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    Last weekend I put a White Brothers Fluid 130 and a 29" wheel on the front of our MT 3000 (overkill) I wanted to try a 29" wheel to see if is helped on rolling over obstacles. It did, but the low speed steering was very floppy. If I reduced the travel to about 80mm, it was manageable but not great. Since I ride with a 6 year old, I chose to go back to a 26" wheel and 100mm fork. For the price, I still think the Marzocchi DJ is a good buy.

  18. #18
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    The Marzocchi DJ does not have lock out, correct? I wanted one with lockout as well.

  19. #19
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    Nope, no lockout. You are looking for a 9mm qr with lockout?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trails4Two View Post
    Nope, no lockout. You are looking for a 9mm qr with lockout?
    Yup

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trails4Two View Post
    Last weekend I put a White Brothers Fluid 130 and a 29" wheel on the front of our MT 3000 (overkill) I wanted to try a 29" wheel to see if is helped on rolling over obstacles. It did, but the low speed steering was very floppy. If I reduced the travel to about 80mm, it was manageable but not great. Since I ride with a 6 year old, I chose to go back to a 26" wheel and 100mm fork. For the price, I still think the Marzocchi DJ is a good buy.
    Interesting...Was this a loaner? Why the Fluid 130 and not the Loop?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by famp View Post
    Any update on this? I wanted to update the forks on my MT800 and I have no idea what would be the best option (for the best price).
    famp from what I have learned from these Guys the DJ is about the best you can do with out spending the Big Bucks.
    I was hoping to find a old fork with the V brakes and the 9mm I looked for some time but then gave up.
    I was looking to do the Disc and fork until I started looking at my drivetrain then that took a left turn lol......

    What year is your MT800?
    don't forget to post some pictures of it I will also be posting in that thread tomorrow

    The Official Cannondale Thread

  23. #23
    PMK
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trails4Two View Post
    Last weekend I put a White Brothers Fluid 130 and a 29" wheel on the front of our MT 3000 (overkill) I wanted to try a 29" wheel to see if is helped on rolling over obstacles. It did, but the low speed steering was very floppy. If I reduced the travel to about 80mm, it was manageable but not great. Since I ride with a 6 year old, I chose to go back to a 26" wheel and 100mm fork. For the price, I still think the Marzocchi DJ is a good buy.
    FWIW, in a true 29 vs 26 debate, on paper and on the trail, the 26 is the better geometry for anything with the wheel turned, even slightly. The 29 has two advantages, grip and ease of the tire getting over stuff which some equate to a faster roll.

    For us, and we have a bunch of miles on both size wheels. The 29 has a small window of working geometry. Granted even wrong they can be adapted too and work, but when fork angles and trail dimension are plotted, they directly relate to exactly how the bike feels in the dirt.

    While not violently unstable, the 29 can either turn well while scuffing your toes and being borderline twitchy, or will feel heavy and floppy.

    The 26, has more side grip on account of how the geometry when turning loads the tires sidewall tread. It also has less concern about toe overlap, and can find a proper trail dimension that provides predictable feel through the bars.

    The design factors for both lie in the numbers...headtube angle, fork offset, and trail dimension. Those magic points are paramount.

    FWIW, this is not starting a debate on 29 vs 26, just some reasons why things happen.

    If you have an early 98 or sooner Cannondale with the steeper headtube angle, it will better contend with the longer fork. Additionally, the less offset you can buy on the fork, will change the trail dimension longer which if not extreme will help side bite.

    If Cane Creek offered a magic angleset to pull that axle aft, this would alter the headtube angle, decrease trail which would remove the floppy, take away some front tire grip and probably allow the forks to slide more freely when in use. All good things.

    This may sound odd, but for us there are times when the 29 has too much grip.

    PK
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by XC Mike View Post
    famp from what I have learned from these Guys the DJ is about the best you can do with out spending the Big Bucks.
    I was hoping to find a old fork with the V brakes and the 9mm I looked for some time but then gave up.
    I was looking to do the Disc and fork until I started looking at my drivetrain then that took a left turn lol......

    What year is your MT800?
    don't forget to post some pictures of it I will also be posting in that thread tomorrow
    Sounds like a plan. I may go with DJ anyways.

    My CD MT800 is '03. I'll post pics as soon as I find someone willing to take one for us.

  25. #25
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    How about a Marzocchi 44 RLO it's a standard 9mm and can use V brakes
    Team under 270Lbs No drop offs or Jumps just XC riding

    Available colors: gloss black
    140mm (120 w/spacer)
    AIR ADJUST
    + AIR PRELOAD
    (RLO)
    + LOCK OUT
    + REBOUND
    9mm DROP OUT
    32mm HARD ANODIZED ALUMINUM STANCHIONS
    ALUMINUM STEER TUBE
    6" PM D-BRAKE (MAX 203mm) + V-BRAKE (PINS NOT INCLUDED)

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