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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonP. View Post
    Received the bike yesterday and in checking things out found the fork is the RC2 model with the flip levers to secure the thru axel. The fork had 150psi and the shock was at 240psi. Seems high for our weight, I run 50/150 on my Enduro. What would you reccommend for starting pressures. We won't be taking any big hits for a while just light trail rides for now...
    240 in the rear RP23 may be a few PSI high, I don't know which version of the shock you have. This can effect the pressure and setup. Can you post a photo? As a good guide, set the base pressure for the point of stoker alone and just enough pressure for zero sag. Note the amount and if needed add in 10 psi increments until both riders gives about 3/8" sag.

    The fork and 150, well, that is a matter of accomplishing some static tests for sag. Aim for less than 20%. You will probably need to work the pressure until the fork / steering feels good.

    PK
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  2. #152
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    Don P, just saw the photos, you have a large can rear shock, that forces you to run higher pressures to minimize wallow in the mid stroke.

    PK
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  3. #153
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    We have the same shock and run it at ~175psi. Stoker weight of ~135, team weight of 340+gear. Lots of variables, but I'd think 240psi is high.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okayfine View Post
    We have the same shock and run it at ~175psi. Stoker weight of ~135, team weight of 340+gear. Lots of variables, but I'd think 240psi is high.
    So much depends upon stoker weight. I forgot OK do you have a small can shock or large can shock? We have run both and from experience know that WE need more pressure (about 25 psi increase) if we run a large can shock.

    The reason why is progression of the air spring. The large can has a flatter rising rate. This makes for a softer mid stroke with the bike settling lower. For us, this is bad since it corners vaguely and "drags" cranks or tubes at bad times.

    If you run a super long fork this can help but tends to make it chopperish with a long fork and low rear.

    In the end though, each team is different, and on tandems more than singles it is not always as easy to just carry across the numbers.

    I'm certain if 10 teams rode our ECDM, some would not like the ergos, some not like the tires, and without doubt, many would probably not like our suspension settings. Change the settings and what was hated a moment before may be nirvana.

    PK
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  5. #155
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    We decided we're running the big can, '11 BV version. I found I had to add 15psi over the '06 small RP3 on our old bike.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okayfine View Post
    We decided we're running the big can, '11 BV version. I found I had to add 15psi over the '06 small RP3 on our old bike.
    And there is nothing wrong with this. Suspension is all about finding the best set of compromises for the application.

    PK
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  7. #157
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    Okay, did some fiddling with pressures and are feeling good at 180 psi in the shock and 100 in the fork. We plan on a 25 miler tomorrow on rolly fast fire road, I may bring the pump for on trail adjustments. I also had to rotate the shock to get access to the schrader valve as it's blocked by the left side rocker...

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonP. View Post
    Okay, did some fiddling with pressures and are feeling good at 180 psi in the shock and 100 in the fork. We plan on a 25 miler tomorrow on rolly fast fire road, I may bring the pump for on trail adjustments. I also had to rotate the shock to get access to the schrader valve as it's blocked by the left side rocker...
    Without getting in trouble, how much does your stoker weigh?

    PK
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  9. #159
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    We have a SR Suntour DURO SF9 on our Tandem. Even with the hard spring it was to soft at the beginning, but changing the elastomers to the hard (green) ones did the trick. The fork keeps up hard rides, has low flex and works like a charm.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmk View Post
    without getting in trouble, how much does your stoker weigh?

    Pk
    115

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonP. View Post
    115
    Explains the lower pressure

    PK
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  12. #162
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    here is a link to my iild with the new suspension

    ECDM right side drive / lock out suspension Build

  13. #163
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    White Brothers is coming out with a Double crown version of their Loop. I'll try to get some info/time on it and report back.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trails4Two View Post
    White Brothers is coming out with a Double crown version of their Loop. I'll try to get some info/time on it and report back.
    We've been selling it for over a year now. Much improved over the Magic platform.
    MTB Tandems Inc.
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    www.MTBTandems.com

  15. #165
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    Ok, here goes. New Fandango 29'r, new team, 260lbs. Experienced riders in North GA. Will spend 99% of our time on singletrack with lots of rocks and roots, quick turn-ins, etc. We opted to spec our tandem with a single-crown White Bros. Magic 100 rather than the newer dual-crown Loop as I wanted the quicker steering and handling characteristics. The fork felt great in the parking lot but was a bear to figure out on the trail.

    Initial settings were ~35-40psi, IMV somewhere in the middle and rebound - no idea.

    Initially, we had a severe topping out clunk, which I understood to be too fast rebound - I just wasn't sure how to slow it down. I eventually found the knob below the right leg and found that very small increments had a big effect on rebound. I added pressure to 50psi, but that greatly limited movement. I then went full on and full off on the IMV setting, which I now understand is essentially a compression setting.

    By the end of the ride, we were ~20psi, almost no compression and still slightly topping out. The fork is new and we only put 3 hours on it yesterday, so I expect there to be intial stiction and expect it to loosen up with more hours.

    If you're having good success with this fork, can you give me some good initial settings? I'm not at all opposed to opening it up and changing the weight of the fork oil, or amount of oil, etc; in fact, I have a new bottle of Fox 10wt green oil on the workbench.

    Thoughts?

    For the rear, my stoker is using the ThudBuster with 2 blue elastomers. She is maybe 110lbs and...is quite sore today. We messed with her position on the seat to try to find the sweet spot to activate the thudbuster, but ultimately, I think she may need to swap out a blue elastomer for a softer gray one. Do these have a break in period? Any comments appreciated.
    Last edited by mhopton; 04-28-2013 at 07:52 AM.

  16. #166
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    Magic fork

    I tested a Magic on our tandem and never quite liked the feel of it. That said, they are pretty adjustable. If you don't get any better answers here, I suggest calling them direct. They are here in town with me and are good folks who like a puzzle. As for the Thudbuster, my wife used 1 blue/1 gray. She is 114lbs. They don't really "break-in" so much as "break down"; they will soften slightly as they get used - until they get old. They do have an age limit, so if they are older they can get quite firm.

  17. #167
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    Yes, you will probably need Gray for one elastomer if not both. This may change over time, depending upon how much movement your stoker wants. The seat does float aft and down. My stoker, when we ran a Thudbuster LT on our previous Cannondales and Fandango, did not prefer a lot of movement, but did expect enough on unexpected hits.

    You can set the initial preload via tightening the long bolt or loosening.

    Gray elastomers are known to fail by splitting and going bye / bye. Blue and black do not. If you plan to ride on grays, ensure you understand how to replace the elastomer and carry a spare. Tools are simple, 10 mm box end wrench (cut down cheapy if you want) and an allen wrench.

    We have ridden with a few stokers in the low rider position. If it does happen, and an elastomer is not there to be installed, raise the seat, but realize it will be much further aft.

    As for the fork...I have heard good, heard not so good, know they can be very adjustable.

    First ensure no axle alignment concerns binding the fork legs.

    Next, it should never be setup to top out, let alone top out with a clunk. Rebound should be set first, it is easy. Run the least possible without having the bike wallow or unsettle in a corner.

    Compression, set the low speed first with IMV full open. This is based on feel to not wallow or be harsh. Once close, start adding a small amount of IMV influence, while POSSIBLY, reducing compression clicker by one or two clicks.

    As for air pressure, I would run sag not carved in stone to a specific number, but rather approximately 20% of full stroke. On pavement, see how the bike turns. Pay particular attention to wheel flop. Adjust pressure slightly to lessen wheel flop. While riding off-road, see if the tire stays planted and note how much travel is utilized.

    Setup will be different from a single bike, it should not feel soft and squishy, but rather firm and somewhat more heavily damped.

    For comparison, a single MTB bike is like a motocross or woods race motorcycle when it comes to how the bike may feel. The tandem, while still performance based, is morre like a heavier sport road motorcycle. It will feel firm on account of the additional weight and stability required. Like a sport bike compared to an MX machine, the sport bike runs proper springs with a lot of preload and reasonable spring rates. The MX bike runs a soft spring with very little if any amount of preload.

    PK
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  18. #168
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    We have owned 2 WB Magic 100T forks. One on a Fandango the other on our current ECDM. Like the others I have never been able to quite get it sorted to my satisfaction. Both of them were dual crown versions. The main issue I feel is they are over sprung for our team weight(+/- 285). WB has great customer and technical support but they simply do not sell lighter springs for this model. They do for the Loop. I run the fork without any air pressure to get it to perform somewhat. WB tech says this is OK and it has improved performance. I have dealt with Eric Prinster ( i think thats his last name) at WB and he is very helpful. I have to say that I do not have a great understanding of suspension and learned most of what I know from Paul (PMK) at a clinic he did at the last AORTA event in N Carolina. Paul has also been very helpful in helping me get this sorted. I would start without air pressure and with the IMV in the middle position then set sag from there. We dialed down on the IMV to get sag correct. Test it in the woods and make sure you are getting full travel in most situations. If you find yourself bottoming out then add air pressure to suit. Ours would not hold lower air pressures.(less than 40 psi). Other than that the only advice I can offer is pay attention to what Paul has to say. Hope that helps!
    Ed and Pat Gifford
    the Snot Rocket tandem

  19. #169
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    Great replies Ed and Paul - thank you. I spent some time on the phone with the guys at WB, read the tuning manual and talked to Alex some more after stopping by the shop yesterday. We are heading out tomorrow for a good ride to continue the trial/error of fitting the bike and I believe that we have a good starting point. Essentially, we are going to run 10psi, which gives me about 25% sag. Rebound is difficult to tell given the short stroke of the damper and the IMV setting is 5 cliks out from full soft (-). I'm getting good movement on the pavement but the test will be on the trails tomorrow - will report back!

    As for the Thudbuster, Alex continues with the theme of great service and tossed a grey bumper my way for my Stoker to test out - she's stoked.

    More to come....

  20. #170
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    As a suggestion try running no air pressure and increasing the clicks on the IMV after trying it your way .My forks would not hold air pressure that low for even an hours trail ride. Let us know how it all pans out.
    Ed

  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhopton View Post
    ...As for the Thudbuster, Alex continues with the theme of great service and tossed a grey bumper my way for my Stoker to test out - she's stoked.

    More to come....
    Regarding the grey bumpers, as mentioned previously, they are not as durable, so make sure that you carry a spare and the tools to replace. We carry a small "leatherman" type tool along with our trusty multitool and have been able to replace and get on with the ride.

    Depending on how flexy your stoker likes the suspended seatpost, you may want to try one blue with one grey, or possibly two grey?

    Good luck wih dialing the suspension!

  22. #172
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    On our 29er ECDM, we have been using a Fox 34 fork and float rear, both using CTD dampers since January and are very happy with it. We have the remote lever that allows me to switch compression damping in large increments on the fly for both front and rear simulanteously. I change the settings often during rides for up and down hills. I should measure, but I think my fork has travel reducers so that it is set to 110mm. Otherwise its a 120mm Float 34.

    The only thing I would change at the moment is to run the rear shock upside down since the adjuster cable moves up and down with the shock stroke. I have some different than stock reducers on the shock mounts so I can just flip them.
    2 wheels == True

  23. #173
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    That last post begs a question I'd thought of earlier...

    What constitutes a "tandem rated" fork?

  24. #174
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    One that works for me and my 95lb girlfriend. Of course!
    2 wheels == True

  25. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by She&I View Post
    What constitutes a "tandem rated" fork?
    A fork the manufacturer will warranty even if they know it is being used on a tandem.

    Beyond that the meaning is pretty flexible. You could say it means that the company has done the research and determined the fork is fit for tandem duty, but I don't know if that's the case 100% of the time. You could also make a case for the variety of tandem/Fox fork users giving it a defacto "tandem" rating. But since people do, IMO the only practical difference is warranty service.

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