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  1. #101
    PMK
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    Some forks are better than others in regards to working on them. Some are easy to destroy while others can easily be repaired. Having 99 extra "O"rings could be an indicator of your need to work on your machine more often...

    Often the worst part about bicycle suspension work, especially in regards to air forks, is worn anodized surfaces coupled with lack of frequent normal maintenance and planned obsolescence or no availability of parts.

    If I had a fraction of the money spent replacing stuff I was unable to repair due to maintenance neglect, I could possibly buy another ECDM or Fandango.

    Some of the most neglected areas are removing the forks lower legs and cleaning all the dust from the seal area. No amount of washing or external maintenance will accomplish this. Also, the degradation in how the fork feels is often huge. So not only is the fork being destroyed, the ride is poor and control on rough terrain is reduced. Often this results in a complete fork replacement.

    PK

  2. #102
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    We ride in a pretty dusty environment, but there wasn't much grit intrusion past the wipers. The felt seals even seemed reusable. I typically clean the bike, at most, after every second ride, so that may have something to do with it. And, while dusty, we don't deal much with wet conditions.

    If anyone has an '06 Marz 66 (or whatever other years/models use the same) and needs the Doppio o-rings, PM me for my address and send me a SASE.

  3. #103
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    The comment about the fine dust getting past the dust wiper was not directed towards you in particular, more a general statement letting everyone understand more about this and possible consequences.

    Running parallel to this are items like the RP3 and all similar type rear shocks.

    PK

  4. #104
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    Good job!

    Updating for new fork. Changed out from an '06 Marz 66SL air to a 2011 Marz 66EVO coil. Main changes are 38mm stanchions (up from 35), QR20 (up from bolt-on through-axle), 8" disc post mount (up from 6"), and the differences between air spring and coil spring.

    Had it out on the trail today and it is a nice fork. Stiffer than the '06, mainly felt when climbing square hits at an angle. Plusher, but that may be my higher-than-spec'ed air pressures in the '06. No sticktion from new, and that QR20 is really nice. And, despite the advertised 180mm travel, I seem to have more standover than I did with the '06 which was 170mm travel. I didn't measure A-to-C, but I should to see if there are differences to account for the added standover. Not complaining! All in all, a worthwhile upgrade for the pittance I paid from Huck'n'Roll.

    Still working on settings, but currently has 15psi preload, about 2/3rds coil spring preload, 6 of 8 clicks toward hard compression dampening, and middle-of-the-road rebound settings. The preloads probably won't change much, but the rebound/compression are sure to.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Suspension Fork Experience - What's Working? What's Not?-img_3655.jpg  


  5. #105
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    Side shot please.

    FWIW, I typically run the cable or hose inside the fork leg and ensure the hose does not touch the upper tube.

    Overall though sounds good.

    PK
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  6. #106
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    The brake line is free from the stanchion by about 1/2" and this doesn't seem to change under compression. The Hope lines are rubber-coated braided stainless, so there'd have to be a fair amount of rub before there'd be damage. Marz's front-mount clip is alright, but their older rear-mount clip (as on my '06) was better. Luckily I didn't have to reposition the line coming out of the caliper, but it was close.

    Not sure where I get the added standover. A-to-C on the '06 is ~22", while A-to-C on the '11 appears to be closer to 22.5". Very odd.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Suspension Fork Experience - What's Working? What's Not?-img_3656.jpg  


  7. #107
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    I've run my hoses both inside and outside. I also prefer inside. From that front-clip it cleanly route inside the leg. I figure it's less susceptible to damage -- not that I've damaged brake hoses...

  8. #108
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    How about the new Fox Talas 34 in 29er dress. Tapered Headtube.

    Any feelings?
    www.velocitybicycles.comWhere customers become friends, not simply a dollar sign.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Internal14 View Post
    How about the new Fox Talas 34 in 29er dress. Tapered Headtube.

    Any feelings?
    On what frame and how small are the riders?

    PK
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  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Internal14 View Post
    How about the new Fox Talas 34 in 29er dress. Tapered Headtube.

    Any feelings?
    We are currently riding this setup on out new ECDM 29er. We are a light(ish) team at around 270lbs. So far so good, I like the fork. We did not get the opportunity to get many miles in before the snow.

    I'll update in the spring/summer when we get some more time on it. For what its worth, we don't launch any big drops...

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by ds2199 View Post
    We are currently riding this setup on out new ECDM 29er. We are a light(ish) team at around 270lbs. So far so good, I like the fork. We did not get the opportunity to get many miles in before the snow.

    I'll update in the spring/summer when we get some more time on it. For what its worth, we don't launch any big drops...
    Exactly, so much of this fork to use discussion is based around the size of the riders, the ability of the riders, the terrain, how much the riders want to push the extremes of where they ride, and for some cost / warranty concerns, others often prefer "tandem rated" endorsements from the manufacturer, some prefer performance over endorsements.

    You just need to find the category that fits and go with it.

    We run two different brands of off-road forks on our tandems. One is not tandem rated, but works very well. The other is not a popular fork because the performance is poor as it comes from the manufacturer. I was just lucky and sorted it out, making it our hardtail fork for the Fandango 29r. Would we be happy with a White Brothers, maybe, a Marzocchi, maybe, a Maverick, you see my point.

    The flip side is, if you are a shop, and you install say a Fox fork, that is explicitly not approved for a tandem, are you as the shop owner willing to take that risk?

    So many decisions...

    PK
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  12. #112
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    What's not working...

    White Brothers Magic T100 leaks all air out in <24 hours. Any idiot checks before I ship it to MRP? Works fine while there's air in it. Thanks for any advice.

    Mike

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by She&I View Post
    What's not working...

    White Brothers Magic T100 leaks all air out in <24 hours. Any idiot checks before I ship it to MRP? Works fine while there's air in it. Thanks for any advice.

    Mike
    Valve core tight...top cap tight (snug)

    PK
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  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Internal14 View Post
    How about the new Fox Talas 34 in 29er dress. Tapered Headtube.

    Any feelings?
    Guess now we know, funny title for your post

    Follow along children. Tandem build!
    Reps! We don't need no stickin' reps!

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by She&I View Post
    Any idiot checks before I ship it to MRP?
    Valve core: sometimes tiny things can get stuck in the core itself. Pull it , clean it and try again. You can also test by dripping water on it (while at full pressure) and looking for bubbles.

  16. #116
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    Thanks, guys. Will do.

    Mike

  17. #117
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    Also with the valve core, check the cap. We had a very small piece of debris stuck inside the cap/cover and it was placed so it was bleeding air from the fork. Drove me crazy.
    FWIW, our Magic fork seems to lose air during the coldest time of the year. Spoke to WB about it and they felt it was something that was pretty normal since it held air when it was warmer.
    Ed and Pat Gifford
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  18. #118
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    I removed and cleaned the valve core, and so far it looks like we're back in biz. No apparent leakage in 20+ hours.

    PK, T4T, Giff: Thanks greatly for the info. You guys saved me some hassle, not to mention down time.



    Mike

  19. #119
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    Iam selling my cannondale moto fr fork in perfect condition.

    eighty aid serviced, red and blue spring + tool, powder coated in dark blue, reeinforced for disc brake use, only 100km since last full service

    if you need more information send me a pm

    shipping from germany to other countrys is available

    anyone interested?

    powermac

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by powermac View Post
    Iam selling my cannondale moto fr fork in perfect condition.

    eighty aid serviced, red and blue spring + tool, powder coated in dark blue, reeinforced for disc brake use, only 100km since last full service

    if you need more information send me a pm

    shipping from germany to other countrys is available

    anyone interested?

    powermac
    What bike or tandem did was it removed from? What fork was installed to replace it?

    FWIW, you may need to list this in the MTBR classifieds to prevent both yours and my post from being removed.

    PK
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  21. #121
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    Hi,

    the fork was removed from a germans cycles tandem, i will replace it with a rigid fork because the last 3 years i rode both forks time by time and for my use of the bike the rigid is the better choice (speedy forest way and empty road tracks). Most of this time the moto fr lies around. You can see the tandem on the german cycles website in the gallery. I know about the classifieds but the problem is i dont have the number of posts for it, i think this will change soon :-)

    Power

  22. #122
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    So on the topic of Suspension forks, has anyone converted a cannondale road frame by way of attaching a suspension fork up front and riding as a hard-tail? If not, any suggestions there in?

  23. #123
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    Conversion

    Just my .02 but I wouldn't do it. Try riding your bike cyclocross style, then if you like roads and trails and want more - buy an actual off-road tandem. Used C'dale, Fandango, or other.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trails4Two View Post
    Just my .02 but I wouldn't do it. Try riding your bike cyclocross style, then if you like roads and trails and want more - buy an actual off-road tandem. Used C'dale, Fandango, or other.
    As a practical matter, I agree with you and my wife would never let me try such a surgery (at least not this early in the game). We have tested the bike out as a cross and it works quite well, but I'm having fun looking at my various options!

  25. #125
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    Eye Captain, how intense them trails be you plan to navigate. Could be some rough sailing for that road frame.

    I would really be more worried about the low ground clearance on the RT2, plus the uncertainty of if there is enough strength in the frame for the stress of off-road and added length of the fork. Purely speculating, but economically the cost of the proper bike vs ER visit.

    You do realize that you can sell an RT2 for easily what you can buy two used Cannondale mountain tandems for, provided the RT2 is not trashed.

    PK
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  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    Eye Captain, how intense them trails be you plan to navigate. Could be some rough sailing for that road frame.

    I would really be more worried about the low ground clearance on the RT2, plus the uncertainty of if there is enough strength in the frame for the stress of off-road and added length of the fork. Purely speculating, but economically the cost of the proper bike vs ER visit.

    You do realize that you can sell an RT2 for easily what you can buy two used Cannondale mountain tandems for, provided the RT2 is not trashed.

    PK
    Practically speaking, they would be very mild trails, as I don't think my wife would take kindly to technical single-track. I only just got her bike communing two years ago, and she is still gun-shy of much other than road riding. I've taken her & the tandem up the leif erickson trail here in Portland and she's responded mostly positively there.

    The plan (in my mind) is to ride the RT2 for two years or so, and then upgrade to a touring frame w/ S&S for air-transport. Somwhere in that two years, I'm hoping to get my hands on a late model cannondale MT series. (irony here is that my dad had the very MT I want, but he sold it long before I met my wife)

    That being said, aside from bashing in a tube on rocks, in theory it should be durable enough to put a fork on and take it on the trails around these parts. Back in the mid-90's, Bianchi made a triple butted steel mtn. frame that their teams raced with some success (or at least I don't remember hearing anything about the frames folding during rides).

  27. #127
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    We are currently running a Fox Float 36mm (single crown) with Lock Out and 20mm thru axle on our Ellsworth Witness. Our team weight is only about 235, but we ride it pretty hard. I've lowered the travel to 130mm using the internal spacers.

    Over the years I've tried the Maverick DUC and the White Brothers 100T - and this latest Fox fork blows them both away in terms of great handling, stiffness, and ride quality. Yes, Fox won't officially say its OK to run this fork on a tandem - but don't let that stop you. It's stronger than both the Maverick and the White Brothers.

    have some friends that just got a 29er Ventana built with the Fox Float 34 and it's definitely the only way to go with a 29er tandem these days. So much better than the White Brothers fork - and according to Fox the 34mm legs with tapered steer tube is nearly as stiff in every way as the 36mm with straight 1 1/8" steer tube. Nice to finally have awesome forks for the awesome tandem mtn frames that have been around for several years now!

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry@PineMountainSports View Post
    have some friends that just got a 29er Ventana built with the Fox Float 34 and it's definitely the only way to go with a 29er tandem these days. So much better than the White Brothers fork - and according to Fox the 34mm legs with tapered steer tube is nearly as stiff in every way as the 36mm with straight 1 1/8" steer tube. Nice to finally have awesome forks for the awesome tandem mtn frames that have been around for several years now!
    We are are also running a Fox 34 (actually a TALAS not FLoat) on our new ECDM 29. It is still too early to report, but base on the handful of rides that we have on it, I'd say that I prefer it to the Maveick Duc 32 that we have on our Fandango 29. More to come once we get some serious miles on it. I will say that we are big fans of the new bike too!!

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry@PineMountainSports View Post
    We are currently running a Fox Float 36mm (single crown) with Lock Out and 20mm thru axle on our Ellsworth Witness. Our team weight is only about 235, but we ride it pretty hard. I've lowered the travel to 130mm using the internal spacers.

    Over the years I've tried the Maverick DUC and the White Brothers 100T - and this latest Fox fork blows them both away in terms of great handling, stiffness, and ride quality. Yes, Fox won't officially say its OK to run this fork on a tandem - but don't let that stop you. It's stronger than both the Maverick and the White Brothers.

    have some friends that just got a 29er Ventana built with the Fox Float 34 and it's definitely the only way to go with a 29er tandem these days. So much better than the White Brothers fork - and according to Fox the 34mm legs with tapered steer tube is nearly as stiff in every way as the 36mm with straight 1 1/8" steer tube. Nice to finally have awesome forks for the awesome tandem mtn frames that have been around for several years now!
    Smaller, lighter teams can get away with a lot more. At 235 pounds, that's less than many single riders. You Ellsworth is likely on 12 pounds more than the single bikes these folks ride also.

    Ironically, knowing the Ellsworth is 26", the fork that will outperform that Fox 36 is the Fox 40. The one advantage gained from a single crown vs a dual crown is turning radius. There is a weight difference, but the offset is strength and steering precision.

    29r fork, on a hardtail like a Fandango or Cannondale, having a Fox 40 as a comparison, the modified ATC gets the job done. The ATC would improve another step if I spent the money on lighter spring(s).

    BTW, my #2 29r pick would be a modified Fox 40 or Fox 36.

    PK
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  30. #130
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    I'm currently running a JP Morgen stem but I'm thinking of trying one of my 888RC forks on this GT tandem, Yes I will need to restrict the travel and get stiffer springs for it.


    Any advice on the 888's to much fork...??

    JP stems are works of art and they also work really well, specially on bikes like tandem's.

  31. #131
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  32. #132
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    CLJ, I / we have never owned, ridden or worked on one. For single bikes they get great critiques overall for earlier model years. Some of the older froks had problems and also these older forks existed in a time less "good" for Manitou.

    I did some searching for more info, this link gives some better details.

    Manitou Dorado Pro MTB Fork Review | Mountain Bike Blog || SINGLETRACKS.COM

    FWIW, my one personal reason against these forks are that they are a USD (upside down) style fork. Granted they can work very well, and done properly can be very flex free. The issue I have and see constantly with MX stuff is that the internal oil is always resting upon the seals, and these style forks are more prone to fork seal leaks. Not saying this will or will not happen, just is typical of the USD design.

    Saying that, if we had the need and those forks were fit the bill, we would likely run them.

    Supposedly, they are handbuilt in the US, arrive in a Gun Case for a shipping box, and have one year of included maintenance. So basically about as "works" as you can get off the shelf in a bicycle fork.

    Before you pull the trigger, ask the pinnacle question...are they longer in length than your current WB 100 fork? If so how much will it alter the bikes handling and standover.

    PK
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  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by clj2289 View Post
    I've got a brand new reduced travel one here if you want it. Very plush, but too plush for our team weight.
    MTB Tandems Inc.
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  34. #134
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    Paul,

    Thanks for the info. I will have to consider all of that.

    Alex, I will have to give you a call and chat about that fork, but I thinking that if its too plush for you guys, then it might be too plush for us as well. You have provided us wonderful support with us on our White Bros and I really appreciate that.

    I'm thinking about considering one of the Fox 34 29er forks. Not sure which one, but now that folks have spent some time on them, it might be a good time to get folks to come forward with their field test experiences.

    Cheers,
    Chris

  35. #135
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    Fork help

    So I have been reading about the different options you guys are talking about, but my needs are a little different.

    I converted a burley zydeco to more of a mountain bike setup. I will be riding mostly tight hard pack single track in north texas. I am using this with my kids so our team weight will be about 250. I don't want to kick the front end up to much but would love to run a fork. Any ideas on what might work? PS. I would run a softride stem but I will be running a 100 mill stem so I am not sure a suspension stem will be short enough.

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rmabus View Post
    So I have been reading about the different options you guys are talking about, but my needs are a little different.

    I converted a burley zydeco to more of a mountain bike setup. I will be riding mostly tight hard pack single track in north texas. I am using this with my kids so our team weight will be about 250. I don't want to kick the front end up to much but would love to run a fork. Any ideas on what might work? PS. I would run a softride stem but I will be running a 100 mill stem so I am not sure a suspension stem will be short enough.
    Assuming the frame is a 1 1/8 headtube, your best bet is looking for a good condition used Marzocchi Dirt Jumper or similar series with the brake posts and quick release axle. This may be a tough request from what others have mentioned.

    If the frame is 1", I doubt there is much left anymore.

    Best of luck with it.

    PK
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  37. #137
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    It is definitely a 1 1/8th. I talked to the owner of mtbtandem.com and he really kindof steered me away from a fork altogether, and recommended that I use this tandem as a test platform to see if I like it, then upgrade to a REAL Mtb tandem. My only issue is the fact that I am only going to ride this thing for about 3 years or so with my sons. As they get older they need to ride there own bikes. In other words I am not a long term tandem owner and dumping a lot of money into this or a better tandem is just not wise. I figure a used fork and maybe a front disk brake are about all I plan to put into this thing.

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rmabus View Post
    My only issue is the fact that I am only going to ride this thing for about 3 years or so with my sons
    Big fat front tire? Don't know how fat a tire you can get away with, but I remember our old KHS off-road tandem came with anemic 1.9s. We run 2.5" WTB Dissents on our Ventana. Will depend on what sort of fork clearance you have, and the size of the rims...

    Adding front disc requires the requisite fork and disc brake setup, but also a new hub (and likely a new front wheel build).

  39. #139
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    I am thinking about simply leaving it alone. I am currently running a meat cleaver of a front Schwalbe tire. It is either a 2.25 or a 2.5. I will probably be going to a set of magura hydro rim brakes and leave it be.

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    I have yet to take this off road as my kids wanted to ride there own new bikes first but spinning around the neightborhood even with the a 2.5 tire up front, I get the feeling I am going to be pulling for a dirt jumper fork soon. Anyone ever tried to drop the travel some to lower the crown height to accomodate a non sus fork frame?

  41. #141
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    Dirt Jumper

    The DJ series is a spring fork with Air assist. If you don't put air in it, it will ride at about 75-80mm travel. If you find you are bottoming out, gradually add air and I would bet that you would soon be using full travel with no notable steering effects.

  42. #142
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    You know I am thinking about this more but to be honest I am wrestling with how to go about getting this all done. I live in Dallas right so it is not like I need some serious duel piston disk brakes. The rear end is not even set for disk. So I have been kicking around the idea of a v-brake dj fork or the other duel crown tandem fork and using some magura hydro rim brakes for the short run. I don't want to put a ton of money into this yet so I am trying to work on the cheap. I know everyone says eventually you will spend more but the "time value" of money is also in play here.

  43. #143
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    Fork

    A friend of mine in Denver just inherited a Cannondale Moto fork from a friend. It is 100mm travel, has rim posts and disc mount. It is a solid fork, we rode one for years. Others can add their .25, but it would be a good place to start. Price would probably be VERY low ( I can't speak for him directly. If you are interested post here. He is on the tandem forum or I can connect you.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Suspension Fork Experience - What's Working? What's Not?-2012-10-15_20-29-06_451.jpg  


  44. #144
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    Trails4two. Pm sent.

  45. #145
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    Wow, that's an old ass fork; personally I've been pleased with the RS Tora line since it uses a steel steerer and butted chromo stanchtions with 20mm maxle light lowers. Standard QR's flex awfully and aluminum unlike steel breaks before bending, got one on E-bay for around 2 bills and works well; make sure to get an air spring though.

  46. #146
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    Fox Talas 36 RC

    How does the Fox Talas 36 RC hold up as a tandem fork? We are a 280lb team.

  47. #147
    PMK
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonP. View Post
    How does the Fox Talas 36 RC hold up as a tandem fork? We are a 280lb team.
    First off, understand that none of the FOX fork products are rated for tandems. Saying that though, a lot of people run them.

    The 36 Talas you have should have more than enough knobs and adjustments to dial it in and provide excellent performance.

    I'm not sure if yours is the RC or RC2 style cartridge. Not a big deal, but what is very worthwhile is the high speed compression clicker.

    You will want to build the required routine maintenance tools and frequently change the lower fluid. This is very important since when accomplishing this task, you are cleaning the seals and lubing them.

    Also, it is not uncommon to have the forks lowers crack at the axle perch. This caused by using a 5mm hex wrench that easily overtightens the pinch bolts.

    I made up, (and recently lost, left in the bed of the Tacoma and drove away) a 5mm hex wrench on a screwdriver handle. This is easily capable of the 19inlb torque for the pinch bolts and axle. Also, after each ride, I always loosen the axle pinch bolts and axle itself to help prevent cracking.

    We run a fork with similar features, a Fox 40 Kashima DH fork. It is really nice to have the ability to adjust easily for whatever the conditions are. Our recent FTF we attended had different terrain than home. Home is more sandy and rooted vs the FTF which is hardpack and rooted plus rocks. On our first ride of the FTF, after about a mile I had the stoker reach down and soften the DHX 5.0air rear shock Propedal which is basically the HSC. Once the back settled in and was hooked up well without harshness, I made a couple of changes to the front forks HSC. Without stopping or even slowing, we had the bike dialed in within 1/2 a mile.

    Your RP23 on the rear is not as versatile, but the fork should be.

    PK
    Reps! We don't need no stickin' reps!

  48. #148
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    i am very interested if not sold yet...

    very interested in this fork please let me know if not sold...
    Quote Originally Posted by Trails4Two View Post
    A friend of mine in Denver just inherited a Cannondale Moto fork from a friend. It is 100mm travel, has rim posts and disc mount. It is a solid fork, we rode one for years. Others can add their .25, but it would be a good place to start. Price would probably be VERY low ( I can't speak for him directly. If you are interested post here. He is on the tandem forum or I can connect you.

  49. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by XDEADGOATX View Post
    very interested in this fork please let me know if not sold...
    I'll ask the guy if he still has it.

  50. #150
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    Air pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    First off, understand that none of the FOX fork products are rated for tandems. Saying that though, a lot of people run them.

    The 36 Talas you have should have more than enough knobs and adjustments to dial it in and provide excellent performance.

    I'm not sure if yours is the RC or RC2 style cartridge. Not a big deal, but what is very worthwhile is the high speed compression clicker.

    You will want to build the required routine maintenance tools and frequently change the lower fluid. This is very important since when accomplishing this task, you are cleaning the seals and lubing them.

    Also, it is not uncommon to have the forks lowers crack at the axle perch. This caused by using a 5mm hex wrench that easily overtightens the pinch bolts.

    I made up, (and recently lost, left in the bed of the Tacoma and drove away) a 5mm hex wrench on a screwdriver handle. This is easily capable of the 19inlb torque for the pinch bolts and axle. Also, after each ride, I always loosen the axle pinch bolts and axle itself to help prevent cracking.

    We run a fork with similar features, a Fox 40 Kashima DH fork. It is really nice to have the ability to adjust easily for whatever the conditions are. Our recent FTF we attended had different terrain than home. Home is more sandy and rooted vs the FTF which is hardpack and rooted plus rocks. On our first ride of the FTF, after about a mile I had the stoker reach down and soften the DHX 5.0air rear shock Propedal which is basically the HSC. Once the back settled in and was hooked up well without harshness, I made a couple of changes to the front forks HSC. Without stopping or even slowing, we had the bike dialed in within 1/2 a mile.

    Your RP23 on the rear is not as versatile, but the fork should be.

    PK
    Received the bike yesterday and in checking things out found the fork is the RC2 model with the flip levers to secure the thru axel. The fork had 150psi and the shock was at 240psi. Seems high for our weight, I run 50/150 on my Enduro. What would you reccommend for starting pressures. We won't be taking any big hits for a while just light trail rides for now...

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