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Salsa Tandem? Yep.

17K views 92 replies 32 participants last post by  Johnbonn 
#1 ·
#45 ·
Ahhhh, inquiring minds would like to know!! I for one hope so! I also hope it is just a little later in the year like mid June to end of June. I own a small business and wife is a teacher. Neither of us can get free at the beginning of June but I know majority rules.

After buying our Fandango and getting to meet Alex/Kim Knutt and Michael/Carin Hopton we want to go back. I just look forward to getting to ride with some other tandems to watch and learn. I have heard rumors of how bad Paul/Jeanne are on the tandem also.
 
#48 ·
What I don't understand is why Salsa would not release a "triple-threat" frame that can handle 29, 29+ and fat tires (or at least 27.5+)? They obviously have the knowledge to produce something like that. $2K for an ultra-versatile frame does not seem too bad, but for one limited to one tire/wheel size I am not really sold on it.
 
#49 ·
Interesting discussion and lots of knowledge here. Despite the general dismissal of the powderkeg in this thread, I am considering ordering one.

This will be the first tandem in my quiver. My wife and I used to ride together (on our own bikes) before kids. Now we'd like to get back into riding together for "dates" so that we can spend time together and be active. We've ridden a Santana road tandem before on a couple road rides and my wife really enjoyed it. I'm a Mtn biker at heart, but enjoy all surface and terrain types, currently riding a rigid salsa El Mariachi as my main bike.

Here in the east bay hills there's lots of great riding: back roads, fire roads, remote open space areas to explore. My wife wouldn't enjoy high speed off road or technical ST descents, so I see us mostly doing what I'd consider mixed terrain rides. So road and fire trail (although they can be really rutted due to cattle) linked together with maybe the occasional smooth singletrack here and there.

I think that the powderkeg would be a good rig for us. My local shop has offered me a little discount to sweeten the deal, so I think the pricing is reasonable for what it is. Thinking I'd upgrade to XT or SLX hydraulics and put a jones loop bar on the front. We're both light and the bike will never leave the ground on this bike, so I think the wheels will work for us. I'm 6' she's 5'3", so looking at the lrg/sml.

Any suggestions, advice, etc with regards to this bike being/not being a good choice for us or not? Thx
 
#53 ·
If you are a mountain biker at heart, you will ride your tandem on technical trails, and your wife will follow because she won't know better until after the fact ;)

How suspension works on a tandem is not unlike a mountain bike, BUT on a tandem you can't manipulate the bike; and your partner, the way you can riding solo. Your partner can't anticipate what is coming, nor can you avoid all obstacles or give her a heads up as to a pending impact, so she will have no advance notice before being bounced. The rear suspension (a thudbuster helps) will ease that impact and save their body, increasing their enjoyment and increasing the time they are "willing" to spend in the saddle.

A rigid tandem fork is for paved bike trails. If you ride anything rough you will outmatch your rigid fork. A tandem "goes through and over obstacles", it is not possible to manipulate a tandem like you can on a solo bike, so your rigid bike expereince does not apply.

As for the Salsa, I would be concerned about the frame rigidity and it's compatibility with a suspension fork, so check the specs. Maybe Alex will chime in on steel vs aluminum?

We don't ride an ECDM, currently we're building a Jefe fat tandem (Bluto suspension for, thudbuster for the stoker) to replace our first tandem (Fandango). If we weren't building the Jefe, I'd get an ECDM. In the beginning we should have bought an ECDM instead of the Fandango, not saying that the Fandango is poor choice, but a full suspension tandem is where it's at for trail riding.

Consider getting an ECDM with a lower end groupo versus a hardtail with a higher end groupo. Not only will you and your stoker be happier, it will have a higher resale. You can always upgrade parts down the road, though you may find that lower end parts last longer on a tandem because tandems don't generally see as much use as a solo bike.

But, if you are looking to start low and go slow, I have a well cared for Fandango for sale ($2500) Fandango 29er Tandem, Large Frame, WB Loop 100mm Fork, SRAM 2 x 10 - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories

Interesting discussion and lots of knowledge here. Despite the general dismissal of the powderkeg in this thread, I am considering ordering one.

This will be the first tandem in my quiver. My wife and I used to ride together (on our own bikes) before kids. Now we'd like to get back into riding together for "dates" so that we can spend time together and be active. We've ridden a Santana road tandem before on a couple road rides and my wife really enjoyed it. I'm a Mtn biker at heart, but enjoy all surface and terrain types, currently riding a rigid salsa El Mariachi as my main bike.

Here in the east bay hills there's lots of great riding: back roads, fire roads, remote open space areas to explore. My wife wouldn't enjoy high speed off road or technical ST descents, so I see us mostly doing what I'd consider mixed terrain rides. So road and fire trail (although they can be really rutted due to cattle) linked together with maybe the occasional smooth singletrack here and there.

I think that the powderkeg would be a good rig for us. My local shop has offered me a little discount to sweeten the deal, so I think the pricing is reasonable for what it is. Thinking I'd upgrade to XT or SLX hydraulics and put a jones loop bar on the front. We're both light and the bike will never leave the ground on this bike, so I think the wheels will work for us. I'm 6' she's 5'3", so looking at the lrg/sml.

Any suggestions, advice, etc with regards to this bike being/not being a good choice for us or not? Thx
 
#51 ·
Some obviously don't want to hear it, but there's no way we're going to hammer some of the single track we have here on a rigid fork Salsa, or a KHS frame (with whatever fork you put on it) as fast as we can on our Fandango.... simply isn't going to happen. The difference in handling doesn't allow it, at least with us aboard. We ride this bike aggressively, essentially all the time we're on it. Others may not test the bike's limits this much.

If anyone thinks this is not true, come on down for a training camp! Guest house is available. ...! We don't ever get to ride MTB tandems with anyone else and would love to do so!
 
#52 ·
If you have the option of trying out an assembled Salsa make sure to check out the standover clearance for your stoker. My (previous) stoker was 5' 4" and she was at her limit on a small Fandango. Also, you might find that you need to give up the suspension seat post in order to lower the seat enough.

For the purposes you describe the Salsa will probably make for a fine ride. I once had a Santana road tandem with a steel frame and the ride was quite compliant and a lot of fun.

One way to approach your decision is to consider how the Salsa would look starting with a bare frame and doing your own build. Since the frame is $2000 -- you would have an additional $2000 to invest in components. A sturdy wheelset might be a good starting point. Another way to approach it is how the bike might look if you bought the entire bike, sold the wheelset unused on E-bay, and then bought a sturdy wheelset with wide rims (about $600). I would also think about how to run the widest tires possible (perhaps even a 29x3" in front) to help with the road chatter.

Whatever you decide this is going to be a lot of fun (and so says my stoker).
 
#54 ·
More on the frame and build:

The frame appears to be burly, at least they talk about "massive frame tubes" and high strength steel. It is also spec'd for a 100mm suspension fork, so if this true then the frame is good to go. It has alternatorr drop outs which are a nice touch, get them with a 12 x 142 so you can run a through axle which is important for wheel stabaility.

The build kit is not good to go. The rims and hubs will not handle tandem trail riding, they are low grade wheels even spec'd to a solo bike. The rest of the parts are low to mid grade, nothing special. So you're paying a lot for the frame, but if you relaly want this frame, I'd build your own.

Good wheels will cost a grand, suspension fork is another grand or so, two grand for everything else. Figure $5k plus tax.

Size wise, the Large/Small may be too big for you at 6'. Our Large Fandango is tad long and tall for me, but it's nearly an inch shorter in standover; we are the same height. We got the large because my wife is tall (5'10"). The Medium/Small might be a better fit, use a long stem to stretch out. I prefer a tighter cockpit and a more upright position so I can get our over the front end for control. Unlike a solo bike, you won't have to wory about going over the handlebars.

Also take a look at the Fandango as a custom or the Ventana Jefe.
 
#59 ·
Alex, two things.

1. If we don't have everyone's opinion based on their experiences, the poster won't get to see all sides of an issue from the perspective of individual teams.

2. If we don't get to have your experience as someone who sells tandems and has a much better aggregate idea of what works and what doesn't, we all lose out on valuable information.
 
#60 ·
Alex, two things.

1. If we don't have everyone's opinion based on their experiences, the poster won't get to see all sides of an issue from the perspective of individual teams.

2. If we don't get to have your experience as someone who sells tandems and has a much better aggregate idea of what works and what doesn't, we all lose out on valuable information.
+1 on this...
Before I ordered my Fandango I had many questions on C-Dale vs Fandango and Alex took the time and answered all my questions.
We just spent another hour the other day talking Brakes and in the end, I'm very happy with my choice...
Thanks Alex for all your Help!!!
 
#61 ·
I have to disagree with Ben's comment above that, categorically, the ECDM is where it's at for trail riding. We roll pretty well thru a lot of varied and rough terrain, primarily singletrack, and the Fandango is a fantastic trail machine.

Would I like to own an ECDM? Sure. But, I don't need one based on a lack of performance from the Fandango platform.

Just my $.02 for those on the fence about what to buy.
 
#62 ·
***Disclaimer - I have a Salsa El Mar and Fargo as my current rides, and am looking at a Muk***

I have no dog in this fight and my only comment is this...

First, the fine folks at Salsa are not dolts. It's a safe bet they know their target markets and it's another safe bet the Powderkeg will sell well.

Two, different strokes for different folks. Tandems are no different than any other bike in existence. Some rave about Brand X tandem and some rave about Brand Y tandem. Find a bike that fits your needs and style of riding and go have fun!

Being outdoors and riding amongst nature is so much more fun than arguing on the interwebz...

:lol:
 
#64 ·
My wife and I got to ride a late version Powderkeg prototype, We rode it as we would our custom Curtlo hardtail tandem in the singletracks of Park City. It was a very fun bike to ride when the trails were not too rocky. The low bottom brackets did make it very difficult to avoid pedal strikes on rocks or grade dips. There were sections that we could not pedal enough to maintain enough momentum to clear rock gardens. putting a suspension fork could raise the captain's bb a bit but the stokers will still be too low. When I returned the bike I suggested raising bb height for singletrack use, the reply was that is not really the market for this bike.
This is a good riding tandem, It is not appropriate for what many of us like to ride.
If you will not need any suspension it will probably be fine for you.
 
#67 ·
Thanks for the tips/suggestions.

I am in the east bay TandemBear (and right near JMP actually). While I can't see my wife wanting to bomb Cindy on the tandem, I do think having the capability and comfort to ride sunset, etc and redwood and Chabot would be ideal.

You've all convinced me; I'll wait and save up for an ECDM or simar FS set up.


Sent from a tiny keyboard
 
#68 ·
Thanks for the tips/suggestions.

I am in the east bay TandemBear (and right near JMP actually). While I can't see my wife wanting to bomb Cindy on the tandem, I do think having the capability and comfort to ride sunset, etc and redwood and Chabot would be ideal.

You've all convinced me; I'll wait and save up for an ECDM or simar FS set up.

Sent from a tiny keyboard
Excellent!!!

PS I realize that my avatar pic was taken on Sequoia Bayview, so it should look pretty familiar.
 
#73 ·
Rich well said. We were torn between a fat tandem (think it is the coolest looking tandem out there) and a Cannondale and put a Lefty on it. Well we took your advice and took the dive into FS and we got a Davinci Symbiosis and can't image anything better. We had some concerns but after our first ride could not be more pleased. Cant imagine any better tandem for single tracking! Thank you for the advice on FS tendering! By the way we did ride the Cannondale 29er a test ride and for rails and trails I think you can't beat it at left over pricing our local shop quoted us 1725! Great riding position and nice and efficient but for what we were planning on doing not the tandem. The Davinci Symbiosis is just what we wanted and needed. Enjoy the ride!
 
#74 ·
just assumed we'd "stay on fire roads." Well, that expectation lasted about a quarter of our first ride! We were off on single track right away and LOVING it!
Yep. We needed an off road tandem for fire roads and rougher stuff. We've done so much, much harder stuff than that, rocky downhill in Scotland etc. I get told off for braking! It's possibly not as scary at the back when you can see the drop....I don't know - I don't do the back seat!
 
#77 ·
We now have 2 Powderkegs in the MTB Tandems demo fleet for folks to try out. In person, it's a nice looking package, and appears to be well thought-out, other than the component specs outlined earlier in the thread. Measured BB height is right at 12", so a little better than initially anticipated; the Cannondale T29, for comparison, is under 11".
Frame build quality looks good, the fork is a nice one with QR15 and lots of bottle bosses on it. Parts pick is pretty good so far - we'll see how it shakes out over time and use.
We'll probably take them with us this weekend when we meet ALM and MHopton and others at JackRabbit Trails in NC. Hope to get some folks on them for initial impressions.
The folks at Salsa have been pretty clear in conversations that this isn't meant to be the singletrack weapon that a Fandango or ECDM is, but more of a dirty tourer/gravel/all-surface tandem. For that use, it should do well.
We'll likely buy frames and put our own parts kit on it, at least until Salsa upgrades the wheelset. The wheels would make a decent pair of light-duty road wheels, and a 2nd, heavier-duty set of off-road or touring wheels would make a complete package, but that also runs the price up substantially. We'll have more to say once we've put some time on the Powderkeg. In the meantime, it's nice to have some activity within our little niche!
 
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