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Thread: Fandango Thread

  1. #1
    PMK
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    Fandango Thread

    Since we now own and have a maiden ride, I was thinking why not start a topic showing these bikes and the builds.

    It's for all the Fandango's rolling around out there.

    Here's how ours is currently built, stems and tires are on loan to help me sort it out for best fit and grip / turning.

    Build specs
    Fandango 29'r size large
    ATC fork
    Shifters XO
    Rear Der XO long
    Front Der Shimano SLX 667 made for 2x9 (22/36)
    Timing rings Shimano Tandem 32t
    Cranks Shimano LX 175mm both positions (Hollowtech II)
    Drive chainrings 22/36 Shimano
    BB's LX
    Chains SRAM 850 timing, 991 rear
    Cassette, Shimano LX 11/32
    Brakes Avid BB7
    Rims, Sun MTX 33
    Hubs, rear DT Swiss 540 tandem, 40 hole 145mm with 6 bolt is, front DT Swiss 440 36 hole
    Spokes, DT Swiss Alpine III, 13/15/14 with brass nipples, black
    Discs 203 mm cleansweep front, roundagon rear
    Bars Easton EA50 25.4, flat, 5 degree, both positions
    Stem, Thomson 100mm, 25.4, 15 degree
    Stoker stem, Coda, 25.4, trimmed to allow further forward adjustment
    Captain seatpost, Kalloy
    Stoker seatpost, Thudbuster LT with dust boot
    Captain saddle, Terry Fly ti
    Stoker saddle, Terry Butterfly ti
    Tires, Kenda Nevegal 29 x 2.2
    Tubes, Pyramid

    PK
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fandango Thread-copy-img_0637.jpg  

    Fandango Thread-copy-img_0648.jpg  

    Fandango Thread-copy-img_0640.jpg  

    Fandango Thread-copy-img_0658.jpg  

    Fandango Thread-copy-img_0662.jpg  


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    Congrats on getting it to the trail.

    The 3rd pic above showing the driveline looks really slick and I've got questions.
    Do you have any pictures looking straight down on the stoker chain rings? (w/ chain on 36 and 22 rings)
    Any spacers on the timing ring?
    Any reason why 32T? Looks like it is the smallest that would fit on the spider.
    Did you alternate the direction that the bolts pass through the 36 and 32 rings? Never seen that. Any technical reason?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by bme107
    Congrats on getting it to the trail.

    The 3rd pic above showing the driveline looks really slick and I've got questions.
    Do you have any pictures looking straight down on the stoker chain rings? (w/ chain on 36 and 22 rings)
    Any spacers on the timing ring?
    Any reason why 32T? Looks like it is the smallest that would fit on the spider.
    Did you alternate the direction that the bolts pass through the 36 and 32 rings? Never seen that. Any technical reason?
    I wish the build didn't take as long as it did, but the bike is being ridden and delivers.

    I have a photo looking down, but only showing it on the 36, with the timing chain on it's 32. FWIW, when in the 22, there is no concern at all.

    The stokers 32t timing ring is shimmed outboard approx .75mm (.030"). I used some chainring spacer washers I had here. Without the shims, when going from 22 to 36, sometimes the chains would touch and lift the chain on top of the outboard chain. Keeping it simple and less likely to see a problem, I may install a thin bash guard, then spacers, then timing ring. The alignment will be acceptable with the front since it will be getting a bash guard also.

    Why 32t timing rings, ground clearance. Also I had them here from the MT800. Even with 32t timing rings they still scrape on the stuff we ride over.

    Yes I did alternate the chainring bolts with heads inboard and outboard. The nuts were not quite long enough to engage the timing chainring with the shim installed. The nuts are more capable of maintaining proper centering and alignment of the chainring, but more importantly, can take the shearing load without the chainring contacting the threads of the bolts. Basically better centering and less chance of the ring shifting or loosening.

    PK
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fandango Thread-copy-img_0642.jpg  


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    How big a pain in the ass are those rims for getting the tires mounted up? I've sworn no more Sun rims -- been down that road too many times -- but I still don't have a good 29er tandem-worthy rim in mind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedub.Nate
    How big a pain in the ass are those rims for getting the tires mounted up? I've sworn no more Sun rims -- been down that road too many times -- but I still don't have a good 29er tandem-worthy rim in mind.
    What tires are you using? I can mount WTB and Kenda kevlar and wire bead tires on the MTX's (26" and 29") by hand with no tools. More importantly, I can also remove them by hand if necessary. Even when I don't eat Wheaties.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedub.Nate
    How big a pain in the ass are those rims for getting the tires mounted up? I've sworn no more Sun rims -- been down that road too many times -- but I still don't have a good 29er tandem-worthy rim in mind.
    As Alex mentioned, mounting was easy with no tools. So far with a couple of rides on them, they have not needed removal yet.

    Probably pull the front tire and try something different. Was able to borrow a stack of 29'r tires from a friend. His words, try them all if you want, let me know your thoughts on what works well for you. Not sure how transparent the comparison will be from tandem to single.

    PK

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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK
    I have a photo looking down, but only showing it on the 36, with the timing chain on it's 32. FWIW, when in the 22, there is no concern at all.

    The stokers 32t timing ring is shimmed outboard approx .75mm (.030"). I used some chainring spacer washers I had here. Without the shims, when going from 22 to 36, sometimes the chains would touch and lift the chain on top of the outboard chain.

    Yes I did alternate the chainring bolts with heads inboard and outboard. The nuts were not quite long enough to engage the timing chainring with the shim installed. ..... the shearing load without the chainring contacting the threads of the bolts.

    PK
    Didn't figure that the chain would be a problem on the 22T ring, just wanted to see what the 0.75mm spacers did to the gap. No worries about taking a pic if you don't have one. I assume when the chain rode up over the timing chain it just binds before throwing everything off toward the crank?

    Short nuts, got it. Do they make longer ones and you just didn't have any on hand or are you maxed out with what is available?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TandemNut
    What tires are you using? I can mount WTB and Kenda kevlar and wire bead tires on the MTX's (26" and 29") by hand with no tools. More importantly, I can also remove them by hand if necessary. Even when I don't eat Wheaties.
    Probably due as much to the no-name slicks I was using as the WTBs were not so problematic mounting up the the 26" MTX rims on the C-Dale. Busted, bloody knuckles.

    But yeah, my Suns have always been a bigger pain in the butt than any other rim I've built. Probably no chance of a blow-off, though.

    Sorry to derail the thread. The Fandango is a beaut, PMK. I've barely been riding, tied up with the house 'n stuff, but that's coming to an end soon and I want those dang big wheels.
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    PMK
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    So a quick update.

    The few rides now on the bike have had me getting the riders fit sorted out. The 2x9 has worked spot on.

    The 36t up front is right on for flowing trails. It does handle the slow technical stuff, but with an 11/32 is a bit more effort to keep the pedals turning. An 11/34 would be good but wasn't what was new and laying around. Avid brakes are bedding in.

    Still want to try a different front tire. The Kenda Nevegal isn't bad, but I'd like a bit more front grip at times.

    As for performance, without sounding too much like an advertisement, the bike is fast. Obviously the best test is a stopwatch. No I have not and likely will not get that in depth. I do know that on the open areas and flowing singletrack this bike is very quick.

    I will post a more detailed ride report after the newness is worn off...about 20 more miles.

    PK

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    I so badly want something like that. I have a set of Turbine tandem cranks and a Rohloff just laying here.... tempting to say the least.
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    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11
    I so badly want something like that. I have a set of Turbine tandem cranks and a Rohloff just laying here.... tempting to say the least.

    Honestly, we have no buyers remorse at all. Heading in, we were both very hesitant. Putting miles on our own Fandango makes the test ride truly a small sample. If your budget can swing it, and a hardtail fits your terrain, this frame / bike should easily make your short list to choose from.

    PK

  12. #12
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    The bike has now been ridden on three different trails local for us.

    The first ride was a very technical singletrack trail with many logovers, some palmettos, a lot of deep sand.

    The second was singletrack a more flowing singletrack, with a few slower sections, less palmettos, and far less sand.

    Our third outing was on very open terrain double track. Some sections were "firmed up" with fillers to minimize sand, most of the ride is pine needle on decent base, some sections of grass, and a few hundred feet of really soft sand.

    First off, so far the 2x9 is working very well. I have been working tire pressures slightly, still running Nevegals front and rear. Captains compartment is good excepting a slight saddle tilt change is needed. Stoker section needs the bars up a little bit. Stem is as high as possible, so some slight risers may need to get this done. Ironically the risers that should go on this bike went onto the ECDM since I feared snapping a carbon bar when we clip trees. Overall though it fits pretty good.

    So where does it stand? For the really technical singletrack, the non granny gearing is ever so slightly to much, it's ridable but needs a little change. For more normal trails, especially the double track we typically ran the thing in 4/5/6 with the chainline virtually straight onto the cassette.

    The bike works the trail very well. It has unbelievable grip (traction) on everything from loose stuff to wet raised roots. Compared to out 26" hardtail, there is more grip, a smoother ride, with the added benefit of the tire getting over stuff less abruptly.

    Speed wise, on the technical singletrack trail, this bike is every bit as fast. Sections or features that caused the 26" to scrape or not ride clean have been ridden almost easily by the Fandango. This is a trail we have ridden 100's of times and have the lines, and features committed to memory. The ground clearance and larger tires proved their worth. We have even ridden our ECDM a bunch of times on this same trail. Comparing the Fandango to the ECDM lets the more rooty sections be smoothed by the ECDM, but the larger roots, or logpiles at these speeds let the Fandango easily roll over them. The open sections, which are almost always soft sand, give the nod to the 29'r. Like any hardtail, if we had to ride this same stuff for any hours straight, the suspension would let the stoker stay fresh longer. Initially, I had concerns about the Fandango front tire not holding traction as long as I preferred. After a followup ride on the ECDM, the steering traits for when they loose grip is very similar.

    On the more open trails, both bikes, the ECDM and Fandango have been there. They both work very well. Again for the rougher stuff the ECDM smooths it, while the Fandango gets through more smoothly than our previous 26". You do feel some of the bumps, but it is a hardtail. The open sections, both firm and soft let the big wheels roll. Both bikes are fast. Our 26" hardtail got through fine also, but it is apparent to us that it was slightly slower.

    So what to change next? I was looking for a seatpost shim in the spares for the Co-Mo today and found the CO-Mo original XT cassette, 11/34. So with luck, we can try some lower gears and hopefully not fold the cassette. Captains saddle will be tilted a bit more nose down, and the stokers hand position is heading up about 3/4 inch or so. I still plan to try a different front tire,

    So kind of a short review with something to compare to. I don't want this to sound all gushy about the Fandango, it is however a very capable platform. We still have no fault with the 98 MT3000 Cannondale, it's a very good bike. Our ECDM, which we have not had long, is also a great ride. The Fandango is right there too. If anything they are all great bikes, with each having little niches they do better than the others.

    PK

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    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11
    I so badly want something like that. I have a set of Turbine tandem cranks and a Rohloff just laying here.... tempting to say the least.
    You're a bicycle dealer? I can help with that...
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    Quote Originally Posted by TandemNut
    You're a bicycle dealer? I can help with that...
    Yes sir. I may call you next week. I need to borrow a tandem up here to try with my wife first. She is not opposed to the idea, but she is not an experianced rider and is a bit hesitant. Honestly I've not ridden a tandem for any kind of distance, but this seems like a heck of a way to work together while riding. I think a friend said it bes when he told me the other day that he has never arrived anywhere before his wife while riding their tandem. That's basically what I'm hoping to look forward to.
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    Today we took the Fandango to Camp Murphy trails at Jonathon Dickenson State Park.

    http://www.clubscrub.org/

    http://www.clubscrub.org/images/jd_m...es_12-8-08.jpg

    The weather was hot but there had been some rain yesterday that helped firm the trails a bit. This entire trail is sand, with a few sections of palmetto roots, some short sections of wooden slats to minimize erosion, and the typical trail learning stumps and roots common on almost any trail. Additionally, this place has logovers ranging from no problem to get off and walk. We rode what we could, walked others and scraped on some. Today there were also several fallen trees that required dismounts and carry the bike over.

    We got there later than we wanted, hitting the trail around 10:45.

    The trail is ridden counterclockwise, and today we rode all except the root section of Osprey, and Bunker Hill freeride section which we never ride. So we put in approx 8.2 miles.

    We had ridden our previous 26” hardtail here a few weeks ago, so we had some idea of comparison.

    As the ride began, it became immediately obvious that we had brought a gun to a gun fight. The softer terrain would have caused the 26” wheels to sink and riders to work more, where as the 29” handled the sand and flowing terrain easily. This bike easily climbed sections that gave the 26” bike fits. The downhills, unless improved with wooden slats require you to pedal down them. The Fandango tracked straight in sections that would have caused the 26” to waiver back and forth. The palmetto root sections, some which we had never ridden before without a “dab” on the 26”, we conquered with no “dabs” on our first try.

    The entire day was not perfect though. For some reason after a longer steep sandy climb, we got chainsuck on the downhill side. The pedals locked. I was able to pull the chain out, but not without some missing powdercoat and a bent front large chainring. Being a 2x9 this had us finish in the small front chainring. No big deal but made for some good comparisons of the gearing between large and small.

    We continued on, riding all palmetto sections clean except one where I stuffed the front wheel in a bush. The remaining sandy climbs were not a problem in the smaller front ring. These root sections and climbs were always misery on the old hardtail, never ridden clean and heart rates headed towards 100% on the climbs. Not the case on this Fandango. We had more for the climbs, but the soft sand wouldn’t hold the tire. The bike never sank in the soft terrain, and launched to the top with little effort.

    As we were about finished with our lap in this sauna of a trail, some of the stokers comments were “are we at the end already”, “this is an excellent bike for this trail”, but most important, she commented that she was tired but easily had enough left to do another lap. This would have never happened on the 26” hardtail.

    Also, when we ride, if she is able to talk, I know her asthma is not acting up. As we discussed trail features and how the bike was working for her, not once did I notice any shortness of breath for her.

    This trail which flows more typically of others we have ridden on the east coast let the Fandango 29r far exceed our expectations and easily outperformed our 26” hardtail. Our 26” bike took a long time to dial in and get set up for us. It worked very well. The fits and ergos were carried over to the Fandango, letting us know this bike works that much better.

    Jeanne and I have decided that this will be our race bike for the few events we enter. I am trying to talk her into this one. Last year on the 26” was definite no. With a couple rides on the Fandango, she said tell me more about this race.

    http://www.singletracksamurai.com/p/...l.html#let-int

    Next we need to make a road trip to know how much better this machine is on flowing trails like Santos, I’m suspecting Co-Mo performance with dirty tires.

    http://omba.org/

    http://www.omba.org/images/stories/Maps/spider2b.pdf

    Things that were changed between last ride and this ride…
    Replaced stoker bars, installed risers to raise them about 30mm (this proved big for her)
    Tilted Captains saddle nose down slightly
    Worked on the ATC fork, adding rigidity while making it have no notchy feeling as it compressed and extended.
    Increased fork travel without adding length.

    Things to work on…
    Better front tire.
    Getting the front drive chainring issue 100% reliable. Shouldn’t be too bad. Surly SS chainring.
    Front BashGuard
    Glideplate for the frame.
    Convert fork to air spring with external adjusters.
    Get bike weight sub 40 pounds - ready to ride.

    I’d love to see or hear more about what others are or have done with theirs, that’s why I started this thread. I know it sounds like a commercial, but if I was on the fence deciding, and we were up until a test ride at AORTA, I would want some honest feedback to help decide. Had we not test ridden one back to back with our 26” hardtail, I doubt we would have followed through on a Fandango.

    We are convinced this bike will see a lot of miles, it’s that good.
    Fast, predictable and smooth.

    PK
    Last edited by PMK; 08-08-2010 at 10:25 PM.

  16. #16
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    Paul,

    Since I have a vested interest in the Fandango, I shouldn't be involved in this thread (which, of course, didn't keep me from posting about tires previously )

    One of the great things about MTBR, and this forum in particular, is that folks can post real-world info that gives others who may be intersted in the products some insight on the real performance of the products. For off-road tandems, that's a huge service, since many potential customers can't actually see/ride one prior to buying it.

    From my standpoint as a dealer/product guy, I can tell you that detailed posts like yours are invaluable as a resource for product improvement and future design goals.

    As a consumer and enthusiast, I consider posts like yours as a great addition to, and balanced reality check of info presented by the manufacturer's brochures and websites, etc.
    In fact, your idea of a model-specific thread for each of the current off-road tandems available is a great one; that way owners can post their experiences and thoughts and prospective owners can get info and ask questions on whatever they may be looking at.

    So I would like to THANK YOU! for your detailed posts and description of your progress through the creation and tuning of your Fandango.
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    Great info Paul and Alex. As a Fandango and Ventana owner its fun to read others experience and insights. Its also helpful in getting my tandem set up in the optimum configuration. Keep it comin" , both of you!
    Ed Gifford
    Toms River, NJ

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    It's been decided. My wife signed off on this bike as a worthwhile experiment for the two of us. As soon as I hear from Alex I'll have one on it's way. We'll go with a black large with the White 100T on his recommendation, and the bike will be set up with the Rohloff I have. Should be a really nice set up. Not bad for a starter bike. I hope it will work out as well as I think it could.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11
    It's been decided. My wife signed off on this bike as a worthwhile experiment for the two of us. As soon as I hear from Alex I'll have one on it's way. We'll go with a black large with the White 100T on his recommendation, and the bike will be set up with the Rohloff I have. Should be a really nice set up. Not bad for a starter bike. I hope it will work out as well as I think it could.
    A great choice. You should enjoy many happy miles on a great machine. The Rohloff will make the build clean, and opens many options for driveline components.

    Don't forget to take care of the girl that said yes, buy her a Thudbuster LT compliment those easy rolling wheels.

    PK

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    For the drive train I'll use the set of Isis Turbines that I have already. We aren't planning anything other than gravel for true offroad use at first, so I'll run three 38t Shimano tandem rings I have for timing and drive gear through a 16t Rohloff cog. I'll use a Rohloff DH chain tensioner as I have one around already.

    I do have a Thudbuster for my wife, and I'll set it up with her preferred model of Saddle from Brooks. Bars will be Jones J bars front and back, as we both prefer large sweep bars on our singles. I will build the wheels with Salsa Gordo rims as I have them already. I will relace to MTX's if we have any issues with them. My Rohloff is leaking more oil than it should, so while waiting on the fork and frame I will be sending it in to be serviced and have the seals looked at. Hopefully it should all come together in about three weeks time.
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    I don't suppose anyone could measure the wheelbase axle to axle of the Large sized bike for me? I'm working on making a rack for transport options and it would help me greatly to start before I get the bike. Thanks.
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  22. #22
    PMK
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    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11
    I don't suppose anyone could measure the wheelbase axle to axle of the Large sized bike for me? I'm working on making a rack for transport options and it would help me greatly to start before I get the bike. Thanks.

    Ours measures 71" with the ATC fork.

    PK

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    Thank you sir.
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    FWIW, if you get a Fandango, it has a lot of mechanical grip. Buy strong chainrings that don't bend under the power, especially when climbing.

    I hoped to have our new Surly Stainless chainring but it didn't make it for this weekend. So the bike will sit idle for a few more days.

    We really wanted to get in an epic type ride on it this weekend, it's that good of a machine.

    PK

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    Duly noted. I think five arm cranks inherently provide more chain ring support than the now standard 4 bolts. I have been wondering about ground clearance with the 38t rings I have, but they should be fine to start with. With a 110 bcd of the crank arms 34t is the smallest ring I can go, but that ring will have less space unsupported than a 32-34 4 bolt chain ring. I would recommend taking it a bit easy on the Surly ring to start with. Though I think they would wear better than an alloy ring, they have a reputation for being soft and folding under a lot of pressure. YMMV, but I've known friends to bend or torque them on SS high torque situations.
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    New Fandango 29r Slimecycle with it's skid plate

    Thought we'd also send in some picuture of our new toy....and it's ..... .... skid plate.!!! (Hopefully these pics show)
    We have had our Slimecycle for less than two weeks and we have put 75 single track miles ons it in NJ and DE. We are still adjusting the bike to our specific needs and plan on doing a performance report after a few more miles and trails.

    Check out the ECDM thread for pictures of our 2 year old Ventana aka the Screamcycle and it's well used skidplate!

    Happy Trails,

    Larry & Brenda (Team Breeze)
    New Jersey
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fandango Thread-imgp5779.jpg  

    Fandango Thread-imgp5782.jpg  

    Fandango Thread-imgp5784.jpg  

    Larry & Brenda
    (Team Breeze)

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    Wow! Ya got that cleaned up quick
    Ed

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    Very nice sir! I love the color. My wife is very partial to blue. Makes me wonder...

    How are you liking the Wolverines? I am debating between those and Weirwolfs for our upcoming build.

    Has anyone tried some of the newer FR type tires such as the Ardent 2.4's, or Dissent 2.5's in the WB fork of Fandango frame? I wonder about clearance for the next generation of actually big 29er tires.
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  29. #29
    PMK
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    Larry, very nice. Skid plate too.


    Ours got abused today. 60 mile ride (6hrs 40 min rolling time / 9 mph average). Some doubletrack, no singletrack, grass sections, slow muddy sections, hub deep water, and few hundred feet of pushing through knee deep water. Without the grass sections (<3mph) and water slogging (<1mph) our planned 80 miles may have been accomplished, unfortunately we had to get back for my moms birthday party.

    Our woes with the 2x9 seem cured. Today the only trouble was slow leak front tire at around 30 miles in, 5 refills with the pump to get home.

    It seems the 2x9 does not like pinned and ramped chainrings, or weak chainrings.

    I received the Surly 36t x 104 4 bolt on Friday. Quickly installed it and we headed out Friday evening for a ride. Immediate chainsuck. Turned around and grabbed the ECDM and did our ride.

    A ride can give you time to think about stuff...

    I had remembered from installing Surly chainrings on other bikes that they mentioned on their website and instructions, how early production rings (up to fall 2007) were 2.3mm thick and could only handle an 8sp chain. Well it seems the part number for the later style 2.1mm thick chainrings is the same. As luck would have it, we got a 2.3mm chainring which was a no go for our 9sp setup.

    I was pretty irked and had no way of knowing if QBP even had thin chainrings. We have a call in to Surly, so I'll see what happens there.

    In the meantime, I decided to go "Primitive Pete" (or Paul in this case). I used a 2" diameter abrasive disk on the 90 degree angle grinder I use for composite repairs, actually a few discs, followed by a 2" Scotchbrite wheel, and went to work thinning the teeth and the area just below the teeth. With some care, I was able to have a reduced thickness to 2.0mm around the entire chainring. By not working the mounting bolt section, no runout was introduced.

    Installed the chainring and 60 miles later, through water, mud, grass, sand, shellrock, it never skipped a beat. Sometimes it's just nice to have a little luck.

    Hot and sauna like ride. Other than a slow leak in the front, this bike rocks. We bought and built this Fandango 29r with these epic type rides in mind. It easily delivers, and now without the chainsuck, which is a problem I accidentally built in, the bike far exceeded our expectations.

    This much distance in one day off road will let you find out some more little things. Well I've complained about the front tire and now have a reason with the flat to swap it out. Also found that the cheapy Kalloy captains seatpost that was a carryover from the Cannondale MT800, does not have enough nose down adjustment. Close but not quite. We also found that the Kenda Nevegal 2.2's will fit in the frames seatstays and clear easily when dry. However there was a few times we heard the "buzz" of side knobs lightly touching the seat stays. We run 50 psi rear and this tire is pretty big on an MTX33 rim. So FWIW, run the big tires, just install a short strip of framesaver tape to protect the seat stay from the occasional "buzz". This is a no big deal thing, just a FWIW to protect your paint.

    I know I'm repeating what others and I have said before. This bike finds traction. The few times the rear tire broke free, almost immediately it hooked back up with more grip. Unbelievable. We also did a short climb of 60' on a grass slope of about 40 degree angle. The bike climbed it easily with no tire slip at all.

    White must also be a good color for repelling alligators, as none were to excited to be upset, also with all the snakes we saw, none were water moccasins, thank you man above.

    PK

  30. #30
    My Ass is My Pilot
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    Thanks to the new edition to the family...a Fandango S/S!
    Build kit
    Fandango 17/15 white 29'r
    Thomson 410mm black post for the Captain
    Rock Shock 250mm silver post for the Stoker
    Truvativ Stylo Oct 1.1G crank&bb set with 32t x3
    WTB Rocket V Ti rail
    WTB Deva Pro
    Crank Bro SL pedals
    Sram 951 chains x3
    King hub front 20mm black
    King hub rear 145mm black with 20t King Kog
    King headset black
    Groovy Luv Handles black (stoker cut to 22")
    Salsa CroMoto stem front
    Salsa S.U.L. rear
    Geax 29x2.25 Fr&Rr
    26"tubes
    DT Swiss TK540 powder coated White
    DT Swiss black spokes w/black nipps
    Shimano Pro lock on grips white
    Shimano Saint 4piston caliper
    Shimano XTR levers with JagWire white hydro housing
    White Brothers T100 fork
    Built all in Bend,Or for Bend and the surrounding area. This bike ROCKS! Handles as good as any bike I have had and I have a lot. Very sharp and precise. Stops on a dime and can make mince meat out of single track. We did Dutchman/Flagline/Whoops/Ben's to town and nothing but smiles,even on Whoops trail. Stokers first time down Whoops and she loved it. Can't rave enough about how well this rig slays it. Great job TanDumb nut for designing a superior bike and Props to my mechanic for the awesome build and of course to the Best Stoker a guy could ever have,even if you yell OH ****!SLOW DOWN PLEASE right in my ear. Just hang on Baby we can make it through anything together
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fandango Thread-p1020122.jpg.jpg  

    Fandango Thread-p1020127.jpg.jpg  

    Fandango Thread-p1020128.jpg.jpg  

    Fandango Thread-p1020131.jpg.jpg  

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  31. #31
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    Oh yeah weighs in at 41lbs
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  32. #32
    PMK
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    Nice...another variation on the Fandango theme.

    I was hoping to get ours under 40lbs with some attention to detail. Yours is built pretty light and SS meaning our large with gears will be even tougher to hit the sub 40 mark.

    One thing that did catch my eye, you listed 26" tubes. Are they superlights with Slime to make them near tubeless in heft and performance?

    I have a non stoker stem from Salsa on order, can you take a close up of which one you used?

    Looks great, the white is sharp. At least we think so.

    JK & PK

  33. #33
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    Where's the "Like" button? This thread is awesome.
    speedub.nate
    ∑ MTBR Hiatus UFN ∑

  34. #34
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    Thanks PMK. The tubes on both of my 29'rs are 26" they have always fit so why go with the extra weight. Not that weight was a huge concern on this rig but on the other S/S it was and I know they fit. The stem is a Moto Ace 105deg 130mm long 31.8 with a shim for 25.4. So far so good. Have about 75miles on it with only minor adjustments seat height and stem swap. The height for the front was a bit high so I lowered the top crown 1" and flipped the CroMoto stem upside down to bring me closer the my rigid Engin's axle to bar.
    B.O.S/S Shampoo Now with More No More Gears! 34/18
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  35. #35
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    here is the stem PMK
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fandango Thread-bar2.jpg  

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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11
    Very nice sir! I love the color. My wife is very partial to blue. Makes me wonder...

    How are you liking the Wolverines? I am debating between those and Weirwolfs for our upcoming build.

    Has anyone tried some of the newer FR type tires such as the Ardent 2.4's, or Dissent 2.5's in the WB fork of Fandango frame? I wonder about clearance for the next generation of actually big 29er tires.
    I've only used the Wolverines so far on hard pack and loose gravel over hard pack and they had plenty of traction. I particularly like the edge knobs that I think held the bike on the off-camber trails preventing a slide out. Tire clearance is kinda close measuring in at about 1/4 inch on each side of the seat stays.

    Larry
    Larry & Brenda
    (Team Breeze)

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK
    Larry, very nice. Skid plate too.

    So FWIW, run the big tires, just install a short strip of framesaver tape to protect the seat stay from the occasional "buzz". This is a no big deal thing, just a FWIW to protect your paint.

    PK
    Thanks!
    And great idea on the frame saver tape....mine's kinda close too.

    Larry
    Larry & Brenda
    (Team Breeze)

  38. #38
    PMK
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Breeze - Screamcycle
    Thanks!
    And great idea on the frame saver tape....mine's kinda close too.

    Larry
    I've had bikes that were much tighter than this Fandango, as I said, more FWIW if you run these big tires.

    We have a lot of grip so far. Our tire / handling problem is the front Nevegal is not stating on top of the sand. This is not a handling or turning problem, rather the tire just sinks in, wags twice and stops. The tire seems too rounded, or maybe it's the low rolling resistance tapered leading edge. From day one I deliberately installed our rear Nevegal opposite the direction arrow.

    Tonight while fixing the flat, I took a look at the other tires on loan to me. The WTB's look good, but not for sandy conditions. I mounted the Kenda Klaw xt, but it was really narrow. So the Nevegal went on reversed.

    Sometimes our conditions with sand have you try different things, flipping a tire is just one of them.

    PK

  39. #39
    PMK
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashpioletrev
    here is the stem PMK
    Thanks

    Same or similar to where ours will end up.

    Any chance you might go back and edit the photo size? Still works great, just tough to follow when you are reading.

    Great looking ride.

    PK

  40. #40
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    Thanks for the tire fit info guys. White Brothers in the past have not been know for great tire clearance around the fork arch, and short stay 29ers have had issues for years fitting big tires. I'm just trying to plan ahead for what tires to run.

    Your bikes look awesome by the way, we can't wait to get ours.

    On the issues with your tires sinking and washing PMK, look at a 2.4" Maxxis Ardent for up front. They are bigger casing wise than the Nevegals you are riding, and and corner/float much better. They are a much more voluminous tire, though and I would think that would be helpful in sandy soft conditions. They also rool much better than their weight and intended use would suggest. The Bontrager XDX 2.1" is also an excellent tire for normal XC conditions. You'd give up a bit of cornering traction over the Neve, but it would roll and float noticeably better. The Panaracer Rampage is a very similar tire to the Nevegal but rolls better, is lighter, and corners better in those types of conditions. It's a little larger volume wise, and is less "round" compared to the Neve.
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  41. #41
    PMK
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    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11
    Thanks for the tire fit info guys.
    This was one of the reasons for starting this topic. I know these bikes are dear to Alex, possibly like they are just on loan to us, but it's becoming apparent that there are a few variations on the builds. This is not a topic of my bike is better or cost more, it's about the little and big things to let us enjoy the bikes beyond our current levels of satisfaction. I've got some PM photos of other bikes and know of a few more that should get posted here. Don't be shy, sometimes the little differences can make a huge difference for another team. Of course, if you need to keep a racers edge, that's fine too.

    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11
    White Brothers in the past have not been know for great tire clearance around the fork arch, and short stay 29ers have had issues for years fitting big tires. I'm just trying to plan ahead for what tires to run.
    We are not running any WB stuff currently, so best I can say is "talk amongst yourselves"

    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11
    Your bikes look awesome by the way, we can't wait to get ours.
    I'm anticipating to see even more...Yes ours is white, as is that BA single speed and there are some red ones, black ones, and snotty ones, how about orange, blue, my least fav Electric Super Dust, or any thing else. And where are the 26" bikes, this is not a 29r only topic. Show us the goods. I've asked before, are there any photos of the leadville podium bikes / teams? Any other Fandango race bikes?

    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11
    On the issues with your tires sinking and washing PMK, look at a 2.4" Maxxis Ardent for up front. They are bigger casing wise than the Nevegals you are riding, and and corner/float much better. They are a much more voluminous tire, though and I would think that would be helpful in sandy soft conditions. They also rool much better than their weight and intended use would suggest. The Bontrager XDX 2.1" is also an excellent tire for normal XC conditions. You'd give up a bit of cornering traction over the Neve, but it would roll and float noticeably better. The Panaracer Rampage is a very similar tire to the Nevegal but rolls better, is lighter, and corners better in those types of conditions. It's a little larger volume wise, and is less "round" compared to the Neve.
    I'm listening and testing...tonight was the first test with the front Nevegal turning opposite the direction arrow, and no we didn't roll backwards down a hill we couldn't climb, this is a Fandango 29r, they have a magical invisible cable that pulls you to the top of every climb, almost anyway.

    I don't have the Maxxis or Bontragers to test. I do have a pair of Rampages and will give those serious thought, at least on the front based on the flatter tread profile which is already proven to work well in sand and is not to bad on hardpack.

    Thanks
    PK

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK

    I don't have the Maxxis or Bontragers to test. I do have a pair of Rampages and will give those serious thought, at least on the front based on the flatter tread profile which is already proven to work well in sand and is not to bad on hardpack.

    Thanks
    PK
    Bontrager FR3s are my favorite right now and I have been through a lot of Nevegals and Rampages. Thick burly sidewalls, huge, sticky cornering knobs, more volume if you want that. We tend to kill the first two tires with sidewall tears out here. Very square profile.

    I have been favorably impressed with Specialized Captain Control 2bliss casing as well. It is narrower, but sticky and beefy sidewall. The Speshy Purgatory 2.4 appears bigger and more burly, but I have not tried it yet
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  43. #43
    PMK
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    We're working to get our Fandango dialed in for an upcoming event. This is one of those you must be crazy type events so I'm asking for any thoughts we may try in our setup.

    The race is about 180 miles long, starts on a Saturday @ 6am or thereabouts, and has a 32 hour limit.

    No sags, no outside support. We are able to buy items at stores and if we need to sleep along the trail or where we want.

    Those that ride Leadville or Trans Rockies, or even ride stuff like this on a single, we'll listen and evaluate.

    The bike is getting close, 2x9 is working well, Brakes have bedded in. ATC fork is ok, but needs to be lighter. Still sorting tires and will bring extras to the start in case it rains.

    Light will hopefully be our Tri Newt, if we get it back from repairs. Planning to borrow a second light as a backup or for technical terrain sections.

    GPS is a Garmin etrex Vista HCx, in a Ram cradle, on a handmade carbon fibre mount, perched on the top of the stem.

    I plan to contact a semi local rider about making two custom fit frame bags to carry spares, tools, GPS batteries, food, clothes and other stuff. This will have us carry water in camelbacks for hopefully only the first 100 miles. After that the watering holes are closer, and we may work it with just bottles.

    Some other stuff we aren't sure about, first aid / snake kit, water filtration since we will be filling from natural springs.

    One rule is a map is required, I'm even considering bringing may other etrex as a spare.

    I guess the bottom line is we are trying to unload our backs, and place as much as possible low on the frame.

    Thanks
    JK &PK

  44. #44
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    PMK,

    You should reach out to Mike Curiak (MikeSee) on the 29er board. Do a google search on him and you will see his resume is unbelievable and can offer great advice on how to pack a bike for a trip/race like this.

    As for tires, it depends on the terrain. On a smooth trail like Leadville given the weight of a tandem, the lightest I would go would be something like a Maxxis Crossmark. I love the Maxxis Aspen but I think it would be too lightweight. The Crossmark rolls very well with decent strength sidewalls. I will often run an Ignitor up front with the Crossmark on the rear. If you need something beefier, the Maxxis Ardent 2.4 rolls well for its size. I also love the Panaracer Rampage if traction and strength are a concern.

  45. #45
    PMK
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrashCanipe
    PMK,
    As for tires, it depends on the terrain. On a smooth trail like Leadville given the weight of a tandem, the lightest I would go would be something like a Maxxis Crossmark. I love the Maxxis Aspen but I think it would be too lightweight. The Crossmark rolls very well with decent strength sidewalls. I will often run an Ignitor up front with the Crossmark on the rear. If you need something beefier, the Maxxis Ardent 2.4 rolls well for its size. I also love the Panaracer Rampage if traction and strength are a concern.

    I swapped over to Rampages today. Curious to hear your thoughts on the Rampages in regards to how well they roll on both soft terrain and hardpack, plus pavement if you have ridden on that also.

    PK

  46. #46
    PMK
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    Build specs / Changes from original build shown in red
    Fandango 29'r size large
    ATC fork (fork freed up, dust boots removed, steering stops changed to Headshok Moto foam units)
    Shifters XO
    Rear Der XO long
    Front Der Shimano SLX 667 made for 2x9 (22/36)
    Timing rings Shimano Tandem 32t
    Cranks Shimano LX 175mm both positions (Hollowtech II)
    Drive chainrings 22/36 Shimano (36 is now a modified Surly Stainless 36t)
    BB's LX
    Chains SRAM 850 timing, 991 rear
    Cassette, Shimano LX 11/32 (XT 11/34)
    Brakes Avid BB7
    Rims, Sun MTX 33
    Hubs, rear DT Swiss 540 tandem, 40 hole 145mm with 6 bolt is, front DT Swiss 440 36 hole
    Spokes, DT Swiss Alpine III, 13/15/14 with brass nipples, black
    Discs 203 mm cleansweep front, roundagon rear
    Bars Easton EA50 25.4, flat, 5 degree, both positions (stoker bars swapped to mid rise, but swapped back to flat bar, undecided but seems we need a different stoker stem or a low rise bar)
    Stem, Thomson 100mm, 25.4, 15 degree (swapped to stem down, all spacers under stem, basically the equal to a 0 degree rise stem, I will buy a zero rise stem when I return this loaner to its owner)
    Stoker stem, Coda, 25.4, trimmed to allow further forward adjustment
    Captain seatpost, Kalloy (swapped to Thomson, 27.2 x410 long in black, Kalloy was difficult to set being single bolt, and it slipped going nose high on our climbing training rides during a fast decent)
    Stoker seatpost, Thudbuster LT with dust boot
    Captain saddle, Terry Fly ti
    Stoker saddle, Terry Butterfly ti
    Tires, Kenda Nevegal 29 x 2.2 (tested with Nevegals rear opposite direction arrow, very good forward grip in soft terrain, front going with direction arrow was horrible in soft terrain, flipped front opposite direction arrow and much better, swapped to Panaracer Rampages, each end installed per arrows, much better front tire in soft terrain, rear seems similar to Nevegal. Definately a lighter tire.)
    Tubes, Pyramid (swapped to Slimes)

    PK
    Last edited by PMK; 08-30-2010 at 05:03 AM.

  47. #47
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    I'm not sure how far off this race is, but personally anything within 4 weeks and having never done this before I'd be more worried about the essentials of surviving it. Get the bike in good order (it seems like you're there already) and pack any spare parts you think you may need.

    I'd be more anxious to sort the details of your personal water/food consumption needs over that distance and time interval. On the low end you finish averaging less than 6mph (this seems rather slow but I don't know the course) and need rations for 32hrs including provisions for an overnight. Middle of the road you ride 10mph+/- and finish in 18hrs, basically one long days ride. Then there will be some racers who can do 16mph+ and finish the first day by dinner time.
    Where do you think you fall? How long do you honestly think you'll be out there? You can "refuel" at a store but where are they in relation to distance on the course and your expected travel time? Pack heavy in the beginning to make it there, or pack light off the line because the store is close? Will the stores be open when you pass by and need them? Where are the springs? How much on-board H2O capacity do you need to have to bridge the gaps?

    I could go on and on. My brother-in-law does multi week self supported backpacking in the US and abroad. He and I have mailed ration packages to ranger stations so that he may pick up en route. He has both over estimated and underestimated his needs, leaving extras behind for others or surviving off the graces of others on the trail.

  48. #48
    PMK
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    Last year I believe the fastest time was 25 hours, seeing a 9 mph average. This is total time, riding, resting, offshoots from the course to get supplies.

    Time will tell where or if we finish.

    The Fandango is getting sorted out for this type riding, and in my opinion is a good weapon of choice.

    We bought it with true cross country rides as its intended purpose. I just asked if she wanted to do this race...

    PK

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK
    I swapped over to Rampages today. Curious to hear your thoughts on the Rampages in regards to how well they roll on both soft terrain and hardpack, plus pavement if you have ridden on that also.

    PK
    The Rampages roll ok on pavement but they are definitely not what I would call fast (neither are the Ardents). They are terrific on soft terrain and roll well on hardpack. They are very predictable for me so I don't worry about washing out in the turns. They seem to have more of a rounded profile which helps.

    Curious to see how they perform for you. They would seem perfect for a tandem to me.

  50. #50
    PMK
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    FWIW, the Panaracer Rampages have now rolled close to fifty miles. Soft sandy terrain, 4" or more grass, short grass, more compacted sand, hardpack shellrock roads, and some paved sections.

    The tires are mounted per the direction arrows. The Rampages AND slime tubes wiegh less than the Nevegals and a regular standard tube.

    The rear is almost the same feel, but lighter. The front works much better than the Nevegal on soft terrain.

    On the dirt they are faster, on pavement they "sound" slower, but per the GPS are similar.

    We have a long riding weekend planned. Going to ride in some of the areas the race will be run. Planning to bring even more tires to test on the actual dirt and smooth sections. I want the rolling effort / performance trade off optimized. We have ridden sections of the race course over the years, so I know the dirt is slightly better than at home. However, usually the tires from here work very well.

    The 2x9 is hanging in there. Having the 36t up front means that the front shifting is used often. So far with the modified Surly chainring, no pins or ramps the shifting performance has been pretty crisp. I've made a mental note to avoid big torque unless in the small front ring.

    I had always questioned our pedaling terminal velocity with the 2x9, previously with Nevegals we never really could max it out, but did see a bit over 20 a couple times. Last night, we wanted to find with the Rampages, a comfortable paved section speed vs heart rate. That done, stoker wanted to try all in on the gearing. The 36/11 saw us hit 25mph for a short bit, but as we know these tires (any true knobby) are not easy to turn at those speeds.

    As for the rest of the bike and frame, this will sound odd to read, but is a good thing. We don't notice it beneath us. Let me explain...When something works well, does nothing bad or wrong, delivers the goods, and the comfort level both in ride quality and riders confidence to do stupid (we can ride that) is there, the bike goes unnoticed.

    The times we do notice it, are when we stop at a store or small shop for a snack or drink, as it just leans against a wall without a complaint.

    Good job Alex, great bike. We were figuring it has over 300 miles on it so far. No bike computer, just when we write stuff down in a log, and if not working for something we forget to write.

    PK

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