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Thread: The ECDM thread

  1. #1
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    The ECDM thread

    Well I started a Fandango thread so why not one for the ECDM's out there.

    So share your thoughts, good, bad, what year bike, how it's built, the team that rides it, and where or what terrain it rolls across.

    PK
    Last edited by PMK; 08-10-2010 at 08:00 PM.

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    The drive home from AORTA 2010 had us talking tandems.

    Somehow I convinced the boss we needed another tandem. We decided to buy Tim from Knoxvilles 2006 ECDM in electric super dust.

    The bike has a nice build with DT hubs, Sun rims, ATC fork, SRAM / Raceface drivetrain, Magura discs and Thomson based controls. Frame size is the "semi-custom" 21/18.

    We went with our typical Terry saddles.

    Upon getting the bike, I made some little changes in cable and hose routing. Frame saver'd the paint work, and gave her the once over for spoke tensions and shifting. Overall a great bike for us.

    I did notice the rear shock upper bushing was 8mm ID on 6mm bolt. Not sure what happened there but purchase of a new bushing from Ventana got it corrected.

    The first ride I noticed the rear Fox RP3 had to be run with rebound fully closed. Prior to the next ride the fluid was replaced and a damper service done. Still the rebound was to light. I pulled it apart and revalved the rebound circuit. Next ride had the rebound adjuster set mid way. The bike was working very well.

    For whatever reason, I decided it needed a better rear damper, so I purchased a used 07 Fox DHX 5.0 air. This thing had a large air can. The damping action was excellent, but the air spring rate was to linear. I replaced the large can to a small can, restting pressures. This made the bike work even better.

    The DHX damper has external adjustments for rebound, multi click pro-pedal, and bottoming ramp pressure. Almost too much to figuire out via stoker communication, but I think we dialed it in.

    Fork is a modified ATC set at just over 100mm travel.

    Things to like, suspension on rough trails.

    Things I don't like, to me electric super dust always looks dirty, though it is cool in the sun.

    We are a larger team at 370 dry, and the bike is ridden in South Florida primarily on very tight technical singletrack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK

    ...Things I don't like, to me electric super dust always looks dirty, though it is cool in the sun.
    Pictures??

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    Might I suggest re-naming the thread title to include the full, non abbreviated name of the bike. Would probably get some more search hits and help newbies (like myself).

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    Our El Conq

    We have a 2006 El Conq in red. It was a surprise anniversary present for my lovely bride, and she didn't kill me for doing it...

    It is a semi-custom 17/14 with a the toptube from a 19. We are a 300 lb team riding in the Colorado desert. Lots of rocks and moderate climbing. The spec was a MTBTandems basic: Sram X-9, Magura louise brakes, White Industries/Sun MTX wheels, ATC fork, RP23 rear shock.

    Things we have done (or had to do):
    New fork - our ATC was bad. Now using Marzocchi Jr T. 170mm, which is more than I want but it works well.

    New 5" rockers on the rear - I felt the suspension ramped up too quickly and we were not getting good travel use. I was torn between PUSH and new rockers. The 5" rockers really helped this.

    New rear hub -blew up the White and are now trying a DT Swiss.

    New rear Der (x-7) - tore the old one off.

    converted the rear wheel to tubeless (ghetto) - works great.

    Ergon grips - work well once the angle is dialed in.

    Thinking of ditching the Maguras in favor of Avid BB7's, but haven't done it yet.

    I'll post more pics when it is cleaned up from our Crested Butte vacation - but here's a couple of local riding shots.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The ECDM thread-12012.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-12013.jpg  

    Last edited by Trails4Two; 08-10-2010 at 01:30 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ds2199
    Pictures??
    Eventually, been raining here since your request.

    PK

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ds2199
    Pictures??
    Taken in sunlight after a wash down and wipe dry. Sometimes it sparkles in rainbow shades, but often looks just dirty.

    PK
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The ECDM thread-copy-img_0676.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-copy-img_0677.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-copy-img_0689.jpg  


  8. #8
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    Ours
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The ECDM thread-copy-img_0679.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-copy-img_0680.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-copy-img_0690.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-copy-img_0687.jpg  


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    Wow! How Tall are you guys? Nice build up but wow, that's got to be one of the largest ECDM's I've EVER seen (And I've seen most of them!)

    -A
    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciclistagonzo
    Wow! How Tall are you guys? Nice build up but wow, that's got to be one of the largest ECDM's I've EVER seen (And I've seen most of them!)

    -A
    That's the thing, we are not that tall. Stoker is 5"6" and I'm just touch over 5"10". The bike was bought initially to cannibalize and then have a new frame made with a stronger headtube junction made to reduce frame flex.

    We test rode an ECDM at AORTA, which I believe was the same size front but 2(?) sizes smaller in the back. Ironically, neither the test bike nor our bike is yet to be a concern for my knackers, my short legs are long enough to flat foot me with some clearance when straddling the frame.

    Overall top tube lengths (bars to saddle) mimic within a few mm all of our other bikes, both single and tandem.

    Don't understand it, but it fits us decent and pedals efficient, just doesn't have a lot of seatpost extension.

    PK
    Last edited by PMK; 08-13-2010 at 05:03 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK

    Don't understand it, but it fits us decent and pedals efficient, just doesn't have a lot of seatpost extension.

    PK
    Hey, if it works for you, who cares!
    OLE!
    -A
    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

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    Our 2010 ECDM..

    Just got into doing Tandem rides.

    It's 2010 in Cosmic Orange (Kids Choice).

    ustom Size, 19" Cap 16" Stoker with Double Taco gusset design yielding the standover of the 17" and 14".

    Tandem Team varies from 270lbs to 300lbs depending on which kiddo is back there with me. (Kids are 6 and 8).

    Build kid was a hodge podge of new and spare parts, the most notable being the Hershey Tandem Cranks (old skoo!).
    SLX Drivetrain.
    Marz DJI fork (130mm)
    and BB7 203mm Brakes.

    Will be used mostly for family rides and smoother singletrack until kids get a little older and more comfortable back there. So far my 6 year old Daughter is by far the more aggressive one, wanting to tackle more rocks and bumps!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The ECDM thread-conqui-10-006sm.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-conq-side-mtbr.jpg  

    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciclistagonzo
    Just got into doing Tandem rides.

    It's 2010 in Cosmic Orange (Kids Choice).

    ustom Size, 19" Cap 16" Stoker with Double Taco gusset design yielding the standover of the 17" and 14".

    Tandem Team varies from 270lbs to 300lbs depending on which kiddo is back there with me. (Kids are 6 and 8).

    Build kid was a hodge podge of new and spare parts, the most notable being the Hershey Tandem Cranks (old skoo!).
    SLX Drivetrain.
    Marz DJI fork (130mm)
    and BB7 203mm Brakes.

    Will be used mostly for family rides and smoother singletrack until kids get a little older and more comfortable back there. So far my 6 year old Daughter is by far the more aggressive one, wanting to tackle more rocks and bumps!

    Very nice machine. I saw bike this posted in the Ventana forum a little while back.

    Sorry for sounding abrupt about the bike fitting us. One thing I was noticing while looking at ECDM photos on the Ventana site, was that many ran a lot of exposed seatpost, and some times bars that were quite a bit below the seat height. Kind of an old school type position. Granted my bars are below the seat height also, just not as extreme as some.

    Regardless though, your bike looks great in orange, most important though is you're enjoying it with someone special to you.

    PK

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    PK, no worries, I didn't think you were abrupt! I love the fact that you're made it work as is, that's cool.

    I don't have much of a Choice with the Seat/Bar height. I have a 33" inseam with a 6' frame, so my legs are a bit longer than norm. My Seat will always be higher than the bars. Even my All mountainy single bike (Sorry for posting a single on the tandem forum) has lower bars than seat positon. Funny thing is, it sure doesn't feel like it!
    And thanks, we love "Orange Crush" and hearing the kids hoot in delight is a lot fun!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The ECDM thread-bruja-float-mtbr.jpg  

    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

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    Hi all,
    Meet the Snot Rocket. Our new "toy" we purchased from Alex following AORTA. We love it. Traded up from a Fandango 26'r hardtail to enhance my stokers comfort. Notice the big smile on her face in the last picture. Thanks to Alex and Sherwood for making this happen. Also, thanks to Paul for the picture uploading advice.
    Ed and Pat Gifford
    Toms River, NJ
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The ECDM thread-006.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-008.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-flames-005.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-imgp5721.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-imgp5724.jpg  


  16. #16
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    Hey Ed,
    Can you post some close-ups of your boom tube protection device?
    Thanks
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    678-445-0711
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  17. #17
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    Ed and Pat, as I said in the emails prior to you posting here, I love it.

    Alex, great job on building such a clean looking setup.

    Ed now needs to work on getting Larry and Brenda to get some photos of their Grinched Fandango on the other topic.

    PK

  18. #18
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    There's obviously a lot more ECDM out there. I've seen many on MTBTandems site and the owners section of Ventanas site.

    Post em up, it's nice to see the various ways these have been built up and setup. It will serve as good means to let others see possible upgrades, color combinations, or just ask how it is with the setup you run.

    PK

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by TandemNut
    Hey Ed,
    Can you post some close-ups of your boom tube protection device?
    Thanks
    Yes, please do! We need that!

    It looks like maybe a fine paint job on a piece of PVC pipe cut lengthwise. Am I close?

    I think we want ours to stand out as far as the chain, though.

    Thanks,
    -F

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    Hi All,
    Here are some pics of the skid plate. I need to start out by saying this is not my invention but that of my riding buddy Larry Isherwood. It is a piece of PVC piping but it isn't your Home Depot Sched. 40. It is very thin walled. I think the size is 3". We used to have a piping for sewer drain/DWV that was like this but the building codes have changed and now its all Sched. 40. The closest thing I could find was piping for an in home vacuum system and I couldn't find it locally. Larry found another small piece of this piping at work and made one for us as a gift for our new ECDM.( Thanks again, Lar) The material inside is thin foam weather stripping. Larry cut it by hand with a mini hacksaw and blade but I think a Dremil tool would do the job. You will notice the notch at one end. This is for chain and granny gear clearance. Also a series of drain holes were drilled in the bottom on centerline. It is cut so it fits snugly around the boom tube and would probably be OK like that but we use high voltage electrical tape that sticks only to itself to secure it at both ends. It leaves no glue residue on the finish.We have scraped over some obstacles and this takes the worry out of damaging your paint/powder coat finish. I put the color matched flames on just to add a personal touch.
    Please post any other inventions of this nature so we can all share our wisdom.
    Ed Gifford
    Toms River, NJ
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The ECDM thread-skid-plate-001.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-skid-plate-002.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-skid-plate-003.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-skid-plate-004.jpg  


  21. #21
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    No, no... You want to wear your battle-scars like a badge of honor....

    (really-large image linked to this photo; just click)

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    Not sure if this has been a concern for others.

    We have had random ghost shifts. The most obvious and repeatable was a short rooty climb that used most of the rear suspension travel going across the roots at the top.

    Checks of the rear der system found nothing.

    After a few rides, I noticed some marks where the rear suspension upper strut pivot, would contact the front der cable.

    For whatever reason, this frame has the braze on for the cable offset left from the seattube centerline. Perfect for everything except when the suspension fully compresses.

    I devised a quick low cost remedy. Using a V brake noodle and liner assembly, I opened the factory bend slightly and trimmed the tube shorter. I reassembled the noodle, then trimmed the housing as appropriate for the noodles length. Reinstalled, connected and set the front Der cable.

    So far it seems fine with no skips.

    Just sharing some stuff.

    BTW, late 2005 build as a 2006 model.

    PK
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The ECDM thread-copy-img_0691.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-copy-img_0692.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-copy-img_0693.jpg  


  23. #23
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    Tandem (triple?) pic

    Here's one shot from our vacation in Crested Butte this month. We did some other great trails, but nobody was there to catch a pic. This is at the bottom of an fairly easy family ride. My son (4.5yrs) is just starting to go on trails.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The ECDM thread-0820a.jpg  


  24. #24
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    Ciclistagonzo - question

    Do you have a custom headtube angle? It looks more slack than others.

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    Skid Plat Close Ups on the ECDM - Screamcycle

    Quote Originally Posted by TandemNut
    Hey Ed,
    Can you post some close-ups of your boom tube protection device?
    Thanks
    Here is our two year old Screamcycle and it's well used skid plate that I made for it when as soon as I got the bike to keep the aluminum boom tube from becoming scraped up & flattened since we live in a rocky area in North Eastern NJ.

    Happy Trails,
    Larry & Brenda ( TeamBreeze )
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The ECDM thread-2010-08-16-013.jpg  

    Larry & Brenda
    (Team Breeze)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Breeze - Screamcycle
    Here is our two year old Screamcycle and it's well used skid plate that I made for it when as soon as I got the bike to keep the aluminum boom tube from becoming scraped up & flattened since we live in a rocky area in North Eastern NJ.

    Happy Trails,
    Larry & Brenda ( TeamBreeze )
    Don't know what happened to the two close ups of the skid plate, but hopefully they are here now.....
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The ECDM thread-2010-08-16-010.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-2010-08-16-012.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-2010-08-16-013.jpg  

    Larry & Brenda
    (Team Breeze)

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    ECDM Pics

    Here's a couple of pics of our ECDM. Needs to get cleaned up a bit.
    Primary components:
    X.9 shifters and deraileurs
    Marz 55ATA
    DaVinci cranks
    Industry Nine wheels
    Magura Louise BAT brakes

    <table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/jviROmWZQjc6yNSzuvlM9g?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_KShXbXYxE2I/THHckPcFxtI/AAAAAAAADDQ/NtJcJ-1jrng/s800/tandem.jpg" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/dan.orlinski/Grinch?feat=embedwebsite">Grinch</a></td></tr></table>
    <table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/YpPaPDZ81rUa4Sh_nkb5ig?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_KShXbXYxE2I/THHdN8lsGvI/AAAAAAAADDY/F4K8sVFRqxA/s800/tandem1.jpg" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/dan.orlinski/Grinch?feat=embedwebsite">Grinch</a></td></tr></table>
    Here's one that Chris (aka Trails4Two) took when we were in Fruita earlier this year
    <table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/1POgouhodWshby5aAz2Lgw?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_KShXbXYxE2I/THHdCaOWPxI/AAAAAAAADDU/FeWFYKqGzfE/s800/0330e.jpg" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/dan.orlinski/Grinch?feat=embedwebsite">Grinch</a></td></tr></table>
    Last edited by ds2199; 08-23-2010 at 05:40 AM.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Breeze - Screamcycle
    Don't know what happened to the two close ups of the skid plate, but hopefully they are here now.....

    When we rode with Larry and Brenda at AORTA 2010, they pounded over a logover. The glideplate made a funky slapping sound. Then we watched it appeared the bike accelerated as it slid on the plastic. Brenda got popped up in the air a bit as the rear tire contacted the logover.

    Some where this is on video from our helmetcam. It was crazy to witness, and then see again on video.

    PK

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ds2199
    Here's a couple of pics of our ECDM. Needs to get cleaned up a bit.
    Primary components:
    X.9 shifters and deraileurs
    Marz 55ATA
    DaVinci cranks
    Industry Nine wheels
    Magura Louise BAT brakes

    <table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/jviROmWZQjc6yNSzuvlM9g?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_KShXbXYxE2I/THHckPcFxtI/AAAAAAAADDQ/NtJcJ-1jrng/s800/tandem.jpg" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/dan.orlinski/Grinch?feat=embedwebsite">Grinch</a></td></tr></table>
    <table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/YpPaPDZ81rUa4Sh_nkb5ig?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_KShXbXYxE2I/THHdN8lsGvI/AAAAAAAADDY/F4K8sVFRqxA/s800/tandem1.jpg" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/dan.orlinski/Grinch?feat=embedwebsite">Grinch</a></td></tr></table>
    Here's one that Chris took when we were in Fruita earlier this year
    <table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/1POgouhodWshby5aAz2Lgw?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_KShXbXYxE2I/THHdCaOWPxI/AAAAAAAADDU/FeWFYKqGzfE/s800/0330e.jpg" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/dan.orlinski/Grinch?feat=embedwebsite">Grinch</a></td></tr></table>


    Very Nice.

    What race, Leadville?

    PK

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by TandemGeek
    No, no... You want to wear your battle-scars like a badge of honor....

    (really-large image linked to this photo; just click)
    Very nice; got a daVinci with a boom tube that looks like that.
    However, since we don't hang our tandems from the ceiling, if anyone ever sees our boom tube scars from that particular angle, we've either achieved massive (and likely unsurvivable) air, or we're in an inadvertantly inverted position due to some bad DWC judgement. Either way, it won't be pretty.
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    North WESTERN New Jersey ...not Eastern ...duh

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Breeze - Screamcycle
    Here is our two year old Screamcycle and it's well used skid plate that I made for it when as soon as I got the bike to keep the aluminum boom tube from becoming scraped up & flattened since we live in a rocky area in North WESTERN New Jersey ....NOT Eastern NJ.

    Happy Trails,
    Larry & Brenda ( TeamBreeze )
    DUH....TYPO .....We live in North WESTERN New Jersey!!!
    Larry & Brenda
    (Team Breeze)

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK
    Very Nice.

    What race, Leadville?

    PK
    Yes - Leadville.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Breeze - Screamcycle
    DUH....TYPO .....We live in North WESTERN New Jersey!!!
    Is this the same as New York?

    PK

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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK
    When we rode with Larry and Brenda at AORTA 2010, they pounded over a logover. The glideplate made a funky slapping sound. Then we watched it appeared the bike accelerated as it slid on the plastic. Brenda got popped up in the air a bit as the rear tire contacted the logover.

    Some where this is on video from our helmetcam. It was crazy to witness, and then see again on video.

    PK
    If you ever find the time to find this clip and send it to us or let us know when you can post it to your vimeo account online we would sooooooooooo appreciate it.
    Larry & Brenda
    (Team Breeze)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trails4Two
    Do you have a custom headtube angle? It looks more slack than others.
    Sorry T42 I was away on a mtb vacation, just saw this q.

    Not intentionally, I do run the Marz at the Stock 130mm, so that may be part of it, but with a 72" wheelbase I think it only changes the headangle by 1/2 degree.

    I will measure it tonight and let you know what it is.

    -A
    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

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    Team Breeze - Screamcycle,

    Where in NW NJ do you live? I'm in Chester and ride the Allamuchy area nearly every weekend. We have an ~2000 EDCM that has gotten less use with little kids at home. I'm actually going to get it out this Saturday (likely, not definite) this weekend when we ride with some friends on single bikes at either Stephen's or Deer Park.
    Barry

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    Howdy Neighbor !

    Quote Originally Posted by CrashCanipe
    Team Breeze - Screamcycle,

    Where in NW NJ do you live? I'm in Chester and ride the Allamuchy area nearly every weekend. We have an ~2000 EDCM that has gotten less use with little kids at home. I'm actually going to get it out this Saturday (likely, not definite) this weekend when we ride with some friends on single bikes at either Stephen's or Deer Park.
    Barry
    Hi Barry & wife!
    We live in the next town....Succasunna....we'll definitely have to get together.....and there are more of us (off road tandems) local within the area!
    Larry & Brenda
    Larry & Brenda
    (Team Breeze)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Breeze - Screamcycle
    Hi Barry & wife!
    We live in the next town....Succasunna....we'll definitely have to get together.....and there are more of us (off road tandems) local within the area!
    Larry & Brenda
    That's terrific. NJ is a great place for a tandem (or any bike). Great variety of terrain - 6 Mile, Chimney Rock, Lewis Morris, Allamuchy, Mahlon, etc. Have never made it to Kittantiny (sp?). Getting together with other tandems would be incentive for us to get the tandem out more often. I will PM you my contact info. Oh, and I would love the see the Fandango 29er in action. Our ECDM is not a perfect size (a little too big) so I've considered making a change. Plus, all my single bikes now are 29ers.
    Barry

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrashCanipe
    That's terrific. NJ is a great place for a tandem (or any bike). Great variety of terrain - 6 Mile, Chimney Rock, Lewis Morris, Allamuchy, Mahlon, etc. Have never made it to Kittantiny (sp?). Getting together with other tandems would be incentive for us to get the tandem out more often. I will PM you my contact info. Oh, and I would love the see the Fandango 29er in action. Our ECDM is not a perfect size (a little too big) so I've considered making a change. Plus, all my single bikes now are 29ers.
    Barry
    We did try to reply to your e-mail to us at our private e-mail address and it came back as delivery failed.
    So please e-mail us privately again...we shoudl be heading to Stephens this Sunday at 10am with friends.
    Larry & Brenda
    (Team Breeze)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciclistagonzo
    Sorry T42 I was away on a mtb vacation, just saw this q.

    Not intentionally, I do run the Marz at the Stock 130mm, so that may be part of it, but with a 72" wheelbase I think it only changes the headangle by 1/2 degree.

    I will measure it tonight and let you know what it is.

    -A
    I'm getting 71.75 Degrees Head tube angle. Only 0.25 off of stock. I bet its mostly an optical illusion because of the sloping top tube.

    -Aaron
    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

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    Thanks for checking. I was just curious. Hopefully my stokers broken finger will heal up soon so we can get out for some kind of ride. Our poor bike has been sitting for almost three weeks during prime season!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trails4Two
    Hopefully my stokers broken finger will heal up soon so we can get out for some kind of ride. Our poor bike has been sitting for almost three weeks during prime season!
    Sorry for the lack of sympathy but I can hear my mother saying "If the bone isn't poking through your skin, tape a popsicle stick on it and go!"

    Yes, she would say that. Old school.

    -F

    PS - sorry to go so OT

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    No sympathy needed. She broke it riding singletrack here in Junction and two days later was biking in Crested Butte for 5 days - this might be why it still hurts a bit...

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trails4Two
    Here's one shot from our vacation in Crested Butte this month. We did some other great trails, but nobody was there to catch a pic. This is at the bottom of an fairly easy family ride. My son (4.5yrs) is just starting to go on trails.
    Somehow I overlooked this photo.

    Very cool to get the entire family involved.

    PK

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trails4Two
    Here's one shot from our vacation in Crested Butte this month. We did some other great trails, but nobody was there to catch a pic. This is at the bottom of an fairly easy family ride. My son (4.5yrs) is just starting to go on trails.
    How hard is it for the captain to keep everyone upright? I'm looking to do that on gentle trails and toe-paths. Do you just bomb through it on a big bike and pray he holds on in the way back?
    I just took my son out this weekend for 6.5mi on my single plus his trail-a-bike. If you look back at your picture, the last 15ft you just cleared, that was what 75% of our ride was like. Picking and choosing the best line, trying to lessen the impact on him, knowing I couldn't just hop an obstacle. Roots, rocks, off camber 12" wide single track.......my upper body was put through the wringer. Felt like I would have if I did 3-4x the mileage alone.

  46. #46
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    C'mon Tandemgeek, CrashCanipe, and others, share a photo and some build specs.

    It may help others considering similar stuff hear how well it works, or maybe doesn't.

    I know I'd like to see the suspension geometry curve on Tandemgeeks earlier ECDM. Kind of curious if rate is rising 100% or if it is falling rate deep in the stroke. Could be a good test to try a more modern rear damper.

    PK

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    I will try to get some pictures this weekend.

    Our EDCM is about 12 years old so it is not as shiny as some of the ones posted on here. It has a 2001 Zoke DJ1 fork I bought from Alex and a rare set of Kooka cranks. It needs to have the rear shock replaced and could use a stiffer front fork. The Team Breeze crew got to hear the squeaks of the rear shock our whole ride last weekend.

  48. #48
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    What rear damper? Fox ALPs series?

    Good rear damper in many ways. Has many design features that make it superior to current stuff.

    PK

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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK
    C'mon Tandemgeek, CrashCanipe, and others, share a photo and some build specs.

    It may help others considering similar stuff hear how well it works, or maybe doesn't.

    I know I'd like to see the suspension geometry curve on Tandemgeeks earlier ECDM. Kind of curious if rate is rising 100% or if it is falling rate deep in the stroke. Could be a good test to try a more modern rear damper.

    PK
    PK, you're going to make my Ventanaphile Show!.

    All Ventana's use the same linkage design, so in that respects, I know 'em very well. Original suspension Ventana's even the Marble Peak style (shock attached to Top tube) were "linear rate" that is, they were rising rate first 1/2 of travel and then falling rate second half. Hence why they were plush but didn't bottom out hard, (the falling rate second half counters the air shocks inheret rising rate spring curve).

    Right about 2005, modern dampers with the platform dampers caused V to adjust the kinetics, they switched to 2/3 rising 1/3 falling rate (on average) the longer rising rate was used to drive the shocks more and get more active travel out of the mid stroke of the shocks.
    I don't think this applies to the tandems as they have maintiained the 2" stroke shocks, but.
    In 2008, Ventana adjusted the rockers again to start using longer stroke shocks. Those are still 2/3 rising, 1/3 falling, but with more stroke to work with the rockers aren't as aggresively driving the shock, netting a smoother ride.

    I'm eager to get my kids more accustomed to offroading since I have the old 6" (150mm) rockers from my Bruja collecting dust and I may just swap out the 4" rockers to those and balance out my travel with the front. (130mm).

    OLE!
    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciclistagonzo
    PK, you're going to make my Ventanaphile Show!.

    All Ventana's use the same linkage design, so in that respects, I know 'em very well. Original suspension Ventana's even the Marble Peak style (shock attached to Top tube) were "linear rate" that is, they were rising rate first 1/2 of travel and then falling rate second half. Hence why they were plush but didn't bottom out hard, (the falling rate second half counters the air shocks inheret rising rate spring curve).

    Right about 2005, modern dampers with the platform dampers caused V to adjust the kinetics, they switched to 2/3 rising 1/3 falling rate (on average) the longer rising rate was used to drive the shocks more and get more active travel out of the mid stroke of the shocks.
    I don't think this applies to the tandems as they have maintiained the 2" stroke shocks, but.
    In 2008, Ventana adjusted the rockers again to start using longer stroke shocks. Those are still 2/3 rising, 1/3 falling, but with more stroke to work with the rockers aren't as aggresively driving the shock, netting a smoother ride.

    I'm eager to get my kids more accustomed to offroading since I have the old 6" (150mm) rockers from my Bruja collecting dust and I may just swap out the 4" rockers to those and balance out my travel with the front. (130mm).

    OLE!
    Sherwood and I discussed a bit about the design and percentage of riding vs falling rate along the suspension plot. He also brought in the topic of anti-squat, something most suspension designers overlook to often. As a suspension geek myself, it was a fun discussion. One of the reasons for it was initially we were considering having a frame built for us. I had planned to use a Cane Creek / Ohlins TTx coil over and wanted a greater percentage of the movement rising rate.

    As it turned out, this ECDM we bought is working very well for us. I am not a fan of lockout systems on a suspension bike. The only time we would ever engage one is on very smooth terrain.

    Our RP3 that the bike came with was way off on the rebound damping rate. I revalved the shim stack and lucked out to get the damping good with the clicker set midway on the first attempt. We put some miles on it and found it decent. Prior to revalving it further, I moved forward and bought the DHX5.0. Other than the air spring volume being to large, it has been pretty good as delivered. Currently the rear is far superior to the front ATC fork.

    I don't know how I'll pull this off money wise, but the wife said yes we need a different fork since having the front get sketchy bothers her. We haven't gone down yet from it sliding the front tire, but a few times she asked "didn't you feel the front tire steeping out?". The casual reply was well yeah, did you?

    The fork ordered is a Fox40RC2 Kashima. I'm expecting I'll need to revalve both the fork and DHX a couple of times before it's best for us. Thought the fork may arrive today, then I need to clip the travel. Guessing I'll settle on about 115/120 mm. Get it on and broken in. Then start playing with shim stacks. With luck, and our current schedule, this will be late October to see happen.

    Like the Fandango topic, I thought this might be a spot where teams might let others see their rides AND share setup details, such as team weights, clicker settings, air pressures both front and rear, sag amounts if ever measured, but most importantly what each setup does well and what needs to be better. As I've mentioned before, this is not a topic of mine is better than yours, rather one of you have a pretty cool setup tell us more.

    As for the ECDMs with the early style frames and ALPs dampers, if you need info, just ask, I've rebuilt a lot of them over the last 15 years.

    Also, has anyone tried a PUSH big hit bottoming cushion on their ECDM?

    PK

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    Not a ECDM, but still a Ventana

    Our tandem although not a El Conquistidor, is the no longer made El Testigo. We had an ECDM, but sold it to buy a El Testigo, which we sold, when my wife got pregnant, then we bought this current one, which is due for some upgrades soon. Still its an awesome machine, 6" travel rear, 7" front.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The ECDM thread-705e2db4_497054.jpg  


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    Wow Jeff what an awesome lookin' tandem. We rode with a couple that had a Grinch Green E.T. at AORTA this spring in North Carolina. With all that travel you must rip on the down hills.
    Ed and Pat Gifford
    Toms River, NJ

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    Thanks,
    This tandem not only is fast on the DH's, but fast everywhere. This bike is easily our fastest all around tandem that we owned.

  54. #54
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    Nice Jeff.

    What color, tough to tell from the photo, almost looks like Electric Super Dust.

    PK

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    It is a pretty bad photo at this resolution, might need to take a new photo since this one is a couple of years old. The frame has a custom flat black powder coat which Ventana only did on their DH bike. We were going for that stealth look...as much as a tandem can be stealthy.
    The bike is a 17/14, which seems a bit small considering that I (captain) is 6' tall and my wife (stoker) is 5' 10", but all the measurements that were important to us ie; top tube lengths are the same as the 19" captains and the rear is the same on all sizes. We just wanted a bit more stand over height.
    We outfitted it with SRAM XO rear der. and shifters, XTR fr. der., custom FSA Team Carbon cranks, Hurricane H45 seatposts, Hurricane Stelvio stem, Answer Hyperlite bars, Hayes Brakes, Mavic X819 rims laced to DTSwiss FR430 hubs with DT 14g black spokes.
    While this bike weighs a little over 50lbs, this bike is incredibly fast. I cannot pinpoint as to why, but it seems so much faster that our previous Ventana's

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Jeff
    ... Mavic X819 rims laced to DTSwiss FR430 hubs with DT 14g black spokes.

    819s huh? I would have thought more like 823s on that rig (or any tandem mtb for that matter)...

    Do you run tubeless?

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    Bigfoot, our ECdM

    Hello all,

    I figured this was the best place for my first post. I give you Bigfoot, our ECdM. It's a 17/16 frame, Marz 66SL front fork, stock RP3 rear, Middleburn cranks and rings, SRAM shifting bits, and our new MTX/Chris King wheel set.

    We just got our frame back from Ventana after breaking it - crack in the stoker's bottom bracket. For three years the frame had been Cosmic Blue, but with the crack repair we took advantage and got a new coat of Ferrari Red.

    The wheel set is new because we kept killing WI rear hubs. Riding tandem is one of our main hobbies, and we also volunteer with the Mountain Bike Unit to patrol the Santa Monica Mountains NRA, so it sees a lot of miles and a lot of trails. We also had it up in Bend, Oregon, recently to poach some of their wonderful trails. Yes, we rode Whoops. Twice.

    The bike gets a lot of comments. You'd think we had the only off-road tandem, ever.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The ECDM thread-img_2816.jpg  


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    Sweet!

    It looks clean and fast. What are the brakes? They look like six-pots.

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    It looks clean because that's the post-assembly picture It was dirty three hours later.

    The brakes are Hope Mono 6Ti. Very good stopping power with Hope pads (sintered in front, organic in back to eliminate the crazy vibration harmonics sintered pads caused). Haven't found a comparable aftermarket pad, though I've got a set of EBC greens coming.

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    Finally cleaned the bike

    Here it is, finally cleaned up from our Crested Butte mudbath and about to embark on a trip to Winter Park. As I mentioned before we are about 300 lbs and like lots of suspension. 5" rockers in the rear and a 170mm fork in front. RP23 in back set at 205lbs pressure with the 5" rockers or 140lbs with 4" rockers. Rebound is set one click away from full slow and we very rarely use propedal. Everything is pretty good now with a possible brake change if these act up one more time...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The ECDM thread-0907b.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-0907a.jpg  


  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okayfine
    Hello all,

    I figured this was the best place for my first post. I give you Bigfoot, our ECdM. It's a 17/16 frame, Marz 66SL front fork, stock RP3 rear, Middleburn cranks and rings, SRAM shifting bits, and our new MTX/Chris King wheel set.

    We just got our frame back from Ventana after breaking it - crack in the stoker's bottom bracket. For three years the frame had been Cosmic Blue, but with the crack repair we took advantage and got a new coat of Ferrari Red.

    The wheel set is new because we kept killing WI rear hubs. Riding tandem is one of our main hobbies, and we also volunteer with the Mountain Bike Unit to patrol the Santa Monica Mountains NRA, so it sees a lot of miles and a lot of trails. We also had it up in Bend, Oregon, recently to poach some of their wonderful trails. Yes, we rode Whoops. Twice.

    The bike gets a lot of comments. You'd think we had the only off-road tandem, ever.

    Pretty sporty. I bet the MTX rims make it track good.

    One question, why do you have the stokers cranks leading the captains by a few teeth? On our off road tandems, with keep them in phase, on our Co-Mo we run Captains two teeth out with the Captain crank advanced.

    PK

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trails4Two
    Here it is, finally cleaned up from our Crested Butte mudbath and about to embark on a trip to Winter Park. As I mentioned before we are about 300 lbs and like lots of suspension. 5" rockers in the rear and a 170mm fork in front. RP23 in back set at 205lbs pressure with the 5" rockers or 140lbs with 4" rockers. Rebound is set one click away from full slow and we very rarely use propedal. Everything is pretty good now with a possible brake change if these act up one more time...

    Looking good cleaned up.

    If you can get the rear damper revalved firmer on rebound, it will make the compression a bit more compliant without getting a vague feel to it.

    Curious about the brake problems...ours has the same brakes I believe. Most times they work with little noise, if they get used lightly and have a lot of dust the rumble a little, sometimes more than others.

    When we got our bike the rear brake needed to be bled and the hose routes I thought could be better. Rerouted, and prior to bleeding, I loosened the hose at the master cylinder and allowed the hose to lie properly with no coiling. I know Magura is not a DOT brake fluid, but a mineral (petroleum) based fluid. For years I have used either Mobil 1 atf, or quality suspension fluids in Magura products with excellent results.

    The fluid of the week was Showa ss5, or ss7, I'd need to check. Regardless, they were pressure bled with a Mightyvac automotive brake bleeder. The less viscous fluid gives the lever a better feel with no lg on return.

    Hope they continue to work for you. Guessing Avids if not.

    PK

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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK
    One question, why do you have the stokers cranks leading the captains by a few teeth?
    Purely an assembly error that was corrected prior to the first ride. The area I assembled the bike was only so big, and I couldn't get a good POV on the bike until I took it out front.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okayfine
    Purely an assembly error that was corrected prior to the first ride. The area I assembled the bike was only so big, and I couldn't get a good POV on the bike until I took it out front.

    You are such a bad liar...I know for fact, because I saw it on the internet that it has to be a super secret speed trick.

    Looks good!

    PK

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    Quote Originally Posted by Okayfine
    Hello all,

    I figured this was the best place for my first post. I give you Bigfoot, our ECdM. It's a 17/16 frame, Marz 66SL front fork, stock RP3 rear, Middleburn cranks and rings, SRAM shifting bits, and our new MTX/Chris King wheel set.


    The bike gets a lot of comments. You'd think we had the only off-road tandem, ever.
    Welcome to MTBR (tandem forum), I recognize that bike and cracked BB story from DF. Good to see some new big bike riders around here!

    That's quite a nice new paint job there too!

    Please keep up posted on your experience with the king hubs. Seems to always be the ultimate question - Best hubs on the mtb tandem?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ds2199
    Please keep up posted on your experience with the king hubs. Seems to always be the ultimate question - Best hubs on the mtb tandem?
    I hope so. We had a number of experiences with broken WI rear hubs (I have a wheelset for sale, WI hubs, anyone interested - nearly new after rebuild ), and the long walks home really weren't what we set out for.

    Still breaking in the CK hubs. I should hope to prove them worthy of the expense, but as with the frame repair - our main hobby is tandeming, so it is what it is. Owner's manual is nice and useful, which is a plus. Hopefully regular maintenance is all I'll need to do to 'em.

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    Youre right, there not X819's, there are X729's

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    Your tandem looks great, really liking the Ferrari red paint(powder coat)

  69. #69
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    Yes, I read also about the cracked BB shell and the reasonable cost for repair. Just knowing that Sherwood and company would consider a repair is huge these days. Then to accomplish the repair, with what sounds like a complete inspection, and then repowderoat is over the top in customer service.

    After looking at the photo again, if you haven't rerouted that front brake hose, it might be wise so you don't use the hose as your brake pads.

    Looks good all hot rod red.

    With Snot Greens and Ferrari Reds, holidays will be wonderful here.

    PK

  70. #70
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    Ventana's not the # 1 off-road tandem company in the world for no reason. Situations like this, while very rare, are one of the reasons I'm an avid Ventana dealer (and owner several times over). Wish I had the floor space for their singles too.
    MTB Tandems Inc.
    678-445-0711
    www.MTBTandems.com

  71. #71
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    As an update, the folks at Fox have always amazed me since 1974, awesome stuff, but typical west coast to deal with.

    Fork arrived but the travel reduction spacers never came, and the spring they sent was for a 2006 series Fox 36, not even close.

    And yes there are all kinds of warning about not being motorcycle, tandem or anything other than a single bike as being "approved".

    But, I'm pretty certain if we can break this Fox40, nothing short of Showa "A"kit stuff would hold up.

    I'll give you guys details of how short I can make the travel, or if I feel I can make it work well down to 100mm. I'll also let you know what springs make it work.

    I'm pretty certain the most travel I can run is 6" (150mm), more than that will be tough on the "boys". First try will be 125mm ish.

    PK

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    Joining in...

    Hi All,

    Just swapped over to an ECDM 29'er from our beloved Fandango Tio (which has already found a new home). Nothing like Christmas in September!!

    Alex from MTBTandems helped me spec and build the bike. I was glad I asked to have the rear triangle painted same color as the rest of the frame (Alex said Ventana rarely does this). The flat Army Green color is MEAN!!

    We took a maiden ride last night on a staple ride of ours and man, what a difference full suspension makes. The stoker was elated, we rode faster than ever, and the frequency of me yelling "BUMP!!" decreased dramatically.

    The larger wheels took some getting used to, but all in all, we're very very happy with it.

    Hope to share future experiences with you all as time goes on.


    Aaron & Shaye
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The ECDM thread-ecdm1.jpg  

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    Looks awesome. I'd suggested Army Green when we were deciding on the color after the repair. I'm still happy with Ferrari Red, but perhaps we'll go green next time.

  74. #74
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    That 29r ECDM looks like a great build. Being dead honest, the Army Green wasn't for us when we rode Alex's personal Fandango. Not a bad color just not our color, and as we all know, that's why different colors are offered.

    The matching color rear suspension arms is pretty hot though. I like that a lot.

    If it weren't so labor intensive, I'd paint remove and polish ours. Be a good winter project but for us that's a good time to be riding.

    Bottom line...nice bike...nice build...and another good spec from Alex giving the customer what they want.

    PK

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    Finally...Fox 40 Kashima is mounted and even got a ride on the ECDM today.

    Kind of an ordeal to make this happen, and Fox made it the most difficult to spend money on their stuff.

    Fork was ordered with an order number and all. Ordered travel reduction spacers and another spring all at the same time. Two weeks later nothing is here. Call Fox and they have no record of the order, or order number.

    Place a new order. Same thing, additional spring, and travel reduction spacers. So the fork arrives, totally wrong spring and no spacers.

    Order spacers and spring again, finally it is all here.

    While waiting, I temporarily mounted the fork. Come to find out, the Magura brakes we currently have, non post style Louises, don't work with a Fox 40 unless you have the "Fox 40 adapter" from Magura AND the short arm caliper. So I call Magura, both parts...none in stock, none on order, none on back-order.

    So I order Avid BB7's and levers.

    Finally everything is here.

    Fit the fork and brakes.

    Reduce the travel. Shortest I could go was 5 1/2" of travel with a Fox 40 spring.

    I initially attempted to run the original Fox spring. It is titanium, but the rate is too soft. Swapped to the red spring (firmest available), with 5 reduction spacers. This gave proper preload (good race sag amount) with no preload "dialed in".

    Couple runs up and down the street to get the compression and rebound close.

    Off to the trail. We rode Dyer which is our climbing trail with a singletrack perimeter. It's an old landfill, converted to a park.

    The first couple miles had me taking mental notes. We did stop once and I opened the rebound a couple clicks (bottom of the fork).

    After a couple more miles, I was able to get the low speed compression good, and was still playing with the high speed compression.

    The fork works very well, the fork is stupid expensive so it should work well.

    How good...suffice to say it makes you very confident and willing to ride just about any nasty hack on the trail. The climbing and descents were a non issue. Many of the descents had deep ruts from recent heavy rains. It was apparent others were avoiding the ruts and riding to the side. You might guess where I pointed that ECDM, and the stoker was either in shock or didn't notice because not a word was said until the ruts end. After explaining that I'm crazy, she did comment that it was not a big deal to ride it.

    The previous ATC could have ridden it, but would be less predictable or confidence inspiring.

    We got in a bunch of miles both singletrack and the hill. Remember how I mentioned the confidence that the fork provided, well a wet diagonal root got me on lap 3, sending us a bit sideways. The pine tree was not injured. The impact twisted the bars / stem. Very slightly bent the left lever, and broke the window of the XO shifter. Kind of made my shoulder hurt too.

    Rear admiral decided we had ridden enough, so after straightening the stem we headed home. Lever is still 100% ridable, shifter gets a speed tape mod for now.

    So how to solve the slight deflection on an angled wet root, first go to the side like the previous laps OR, back off the high speed compression.

    The fork is good, can not compare to a WB 100t or a RS BoXXer since I don't have one or one nearby to test.

    Travel wise, one rooted step up had us use all but 3/16" of travel. So almost the full 5 1/2".

    Other than Fox and their shipping issues, if you buy a Kashima coated fork, it seems Fox has poor consistency in the golden color. Our fork has one dark gold tube and one light gold tube. Fox has no interest to correct it. At this price, you would think they could do a better job of at least matching the tubes colors when they build the fork. The fork looks "wrong" when at rest, but when riding you aren't looking at the upper tubes.

    Sorry for the long post.

    PK
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The ECDM thread-copy-img_1008.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-copy-img_1010.jpg  

    Last edited by PMK; 10-03-2010 at 09:39 PM.

  76. #76
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    The ECDM got some serious rides on it in Mulberry Gap, Georgia.

    http://www.mulberrygap.com/

    Besides the awesome trails, Diane, Ginny, Jason, & Andrew will take great care to see you enjoy everything. The homecooked meals would make anyone prefer to eat than ride, but being an MTB destination the meals are also very healthy, giving you fuel for the next ride, while letting you sleep the night not feeling fat.

    Mulberry gap has climbing, nuf said.

    The ECDM never complained on the climbs, and the suspension was damped spot on for the climbs with no clicker changes. No bobbing or wallowing as we climbed either the dirt roads or singletracks.

    The singletrack at Mulberry Gap was a another test for the new fork, I made no spring or preload changes but did add a click of low speed compression. I also softened high speed compression one click.

    So what does this all mean. The bike saw everything from long slow granny climbs, to nasty hacked one line descents where I had expected to see the Avid brakes plastic knobs melted, and both ends never stepped out, swapped, or bottomed noticeably.

    The trail varied from crushed granite gravel on the dirt road sections, to hard pack dirt, some very dry powdery sections of dry silt (they said they need rain), to some valleys that were wet dirt, being fall, there was plenty of fallen leaves to add more dimension both dry and wet, plus rocks, roots, also both dry and wet, even some grassy sections and for good measure we crossed a half dozen or so shallow creeks / streams.

    Bottom line, it is not tandem rated but has 40mm upper tubes made for serious descenders. The fork does not flex. The action is dialed to not deflect off stuff. The weight is not bad.

    If I had one complaint it was losing a bit of turning lock for really slow switchbacks when compared to a singlecrown or the previous ATC or even a Headshok Moto. But as I complain, not once did we not navigate without stopping every super tight switchback we encountered. I can only recall once where the stoker unclipped expecting us to fall to the inside, but we didn't.

    I guess if you can justify the need, and can overcome the cost, plus are willing to ignore the non tandem warning, this is a very good fork to run.

    PK

  77. #77
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  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by ostwandlager
    Thread



    Anyone know what cranks those are. My eyes may be messing with me but they look like XT's.

    Could they be XT octalink 1's with some crank arm rethreading? (or pedal spindle swapping)

    PK
    Last edited by PMK; 10-29-2010 at 07:03 AM.

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    Hi,
    its the older Shimano XT Octaline . we got them from Shimano but they are no longer oddwews.
    Greating

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    Quote Originally Posted by ostwandlager
    Hi,
    its the older Shimano XT Octaline . we got them from Shimano but they are no longer oddwews.
    Greating

    Were these tandem specific cranks, or were they modified to work?

    Were the crank arms rethreaded for proper pedal installation.

    And required buying an individual arm or third set of cranks to have enough drive spiders.

    PK

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK
    Anyone know what cranks those are. My eyes may be messing with me but they look like XT's.

    Could they be XT octalink 1's with some crank arm rethreading? (or pedal spindle swapping)

    PK
    In their photo gallery it definitely looks like XT. There are Euro-spec tandem cranksets from Shimano that we never see in the US. I know there were LX level tandem cranksets for a while as well. Since Shimano doesn't talk to little folk like us, I never could get a straight answer on if such items exist or not.
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  82. #82
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    Alex, I know you sell Middleburn, what is the current offerings from them in regards to ISIS or square or ? and there drive spider interchange gets a touch confusing.

    Checking your site, is the tandem package "the one"?

    I ask since I am no longer a big square taper fan. While ISIS may have some durability troubles, I have found on the Co-Mo that it is realy nice to be able to pull the cranks easily, and reinstall with consistent repeatable positions that require no frt der tweeks.

    Our ECDM has Race Face square tapers in red that I wouldn't mind changing to some form of spline fit. Crazy I know, but mainly just in the name of easier maintenance.

    My other option, but I'm hesitant on, is reinstalling the Gossamers on the Co-Mo, and swapping the ISIS Race Face onto the ECDM. But would prefer keeping it 175 / 175 as opposed to 175 / 172.5. Maybe I should change and get my lazy stoker more rev'd up.

    PK

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    Hi,
    theese shimano cranks we have bought as a tandemset. Greatings

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK
    Alex, I know you sell Middleburn, what is the current offerings from them in regards to ISIS or square or ? and there drive spider interchange gets a touch confusing.

    Checking your site, is the tandem package "the one"?


    PK
    Middleburn makes both ISIS and ST tandem crank arms. They make 104/64 4 bolt, 94/58 compact 5 bolt, and 110/75 ATB 5 bolt spiders. They also make UNO ring/spider combos, as well as DUO ring/spider combos. All are interchangeable with their RS7 and RS8 cranksets, including the tanden cranksets.
    The tandem crankset uses UNO's for timing rings, and they range from 32T to 38T in size.
    However, once can also use spider/rings for timing rings if they want something else. Tandem crank arm lengths range from 160mm to 180mm in 5mm increments, black or silver. On the rare occasion, I can also get cranks in different colors, if someone wants to wait.
    4 bolt offers mucho choice of chainrings from many sources, as it's currently the standard for mtb rings. 94/58 compact offers lower gearing (20T/30T/40T) lowest for big wheelers, and the old 110/74 gets use on some road and cyclocross apps, but isn't around that much.
    I'm leaning more towards ST instead of ISIS because if one of those standards goes away due to BB availability, I suspect it will be ISIS. ISIS is certainly a better platform as far as installation and sensitivity to gorilla-torque overtightening and other garage mechanic deeds, as well as stiffness of the crank/spindle interface, but there are fewer and fewer ISIS bb manufacturers left. ISIS is also slightly tapered, so at some point, even those arms will wear out from being reinstalled.
    Since the offset of the spiders is very different for Middleburn's new X-type external bb crankset,I have discussed much with Middleburn on getting us those cranksets in the tandem setup. I still don't have a timeframe, but they're certainly closer to reality, as Middleburn now has the DUO ring/spider available for X-Type, as well as 4 arm and 5 arm Compact Drive spiders. I bug Middleburn about those on a regular basis. I'm guessing that EBB and/or press-fit stuff will be the more common platform very soon.
    Sorry for the hijack; this probably should be in the tandem cranks thread...
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  85. #85
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    Alex, hardly a hi-jack. Besides I started this topic on the ECDM.

    The best thing about a spline setup with 3 piece cranks, ISIS or Shimano is that when it's torqued, we have everything tight against something else.

    Outboard bearing stuff for tandems is tough, since the left rear arm sets bearing preload, but relies on the pinch bolt to stay tight. It would be a great setup if each crankset was shimmed to an inner crush spacer so that tight is tight.

    A recent conversation with FSA had them unofficially recommend cleaning the left splines, and then installing the crank arm with loctite. What a pain in the butt. This is one reason I don't want to reinstall the Gossamers.

    I agree if something goes away it will be ISIS.

    So it is possible to get SKF ISIS BB's and ISIS tandem cranksets if needed.

    Any chance of talking Middleburn into the road crank market? A 130mm spider with a drilling for a third inner could open a new market to offer a reasonable priced crankset to compete with Davinci, fill a gap left by White Industries, and be a step up from the current Truvative and FSA stuff.

    The UNO on the left would save weight, and with just a redesign and production run on spiders they have road cranks. The other huge plus is they can be bought in a lot more length options than FSA or Truvative.

    I'm leaning towards there super duper outboard bearing models, polished, with the UNO drives and 130mm drillings.

    The same in ISIS could be a close second...

    Now only if that Specialized bike with the driveshaft could be made for off-road...

    If you want I'll start a crankset topic.

    PK

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    I've been noodling a drive shaft setup setup for bicycles in my little head for years. To me, that solves so many issues with current drivetrains. Bicycles are probably the only mechanized vehicle that goes off-road with the drive mechanism exposed to all the nasty stuff we ride thru. Doesn't make sense.
    OTOH, drive shafts are not as efficient as chain drive, and every iota of efficiency counts when I'm the motor.
    I think SKF may have already ceased production on the ISIS bb's.
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    Happy Halloween

    Just a way of saying "Hi" to all of you from all of us. Halloween ride at Allamuchy Deer Park in northern NJ 2010.
    Ed and Pat Gifford
    Brenda and Larry Isherwood
    Mike and Caren Bianco
    Jay Boesner and Amy Isherwood
    Jeff Winick and Wendy Samuelson
    Cam and Karen Witt
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The ECDM thread-001-800x477-.jpg  


  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by giff07
    Just a way of saying "Hi" to all of you from all of us. Halloween ride at Allamuchy Deer Park in northern NJ 2010.
    Ed and Pat Gifford
    Brenda and Larry Isherwood
    Mike and Caren Bianco
    Jay Boesner and Amy Isherwood
    Jeff Winick and Wendy Samuelson
    Cam and Karen Witt



    PK

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  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by giff07
    Just a way of saying "Hi" to all of you from all of us. Halloween ride at Allamuchy Deer Park in northern NJ 2010.
    Ed and Pat Gifford
    Brenda and Larry Isherwood
    Mike and Caren Bianco
    Jay Boesner and Amy Isherwood
    Jeff Winick and Wendy Samuelson
    Cam and Karen Witt
    Now that there looks like a Ventana el Conquistador de Montanas convention!
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  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by TandemNut
    Now that there looks like a Ventana el Conquistador de Montanas convention!
    OH!!!! That's what ECDM stands for...
    May the air be filled with tires!

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaster1200
    OH!!!! That's what ECDM stands for...

    No silly

    Excellent Control DualSuspension Machine

    PK

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    Here's our new toy



    Build spec is in this post New ECDM Build

    It has been too cold and icy for me to persuade my wife to ride much, so we have only done 16 miles so far, mainly on little country roads. Because of the wet and muddy winters we have where I am in the UK, it's unlikely to see much off road use until probably april next year.

    Thing we like so far are the colour choice, and obviously the comfort and fit.

    I'm not sure what pressure is in the rear, but on PP setting 2 we get no significant bobbing on the climbs. On the shops suggestion we have the captains pedals leading by a tooth or two, which may also help with that.

    We weigh around 290lb all up. I've got about 80 psi in the forks, which gives me about 25 mm sag.
    I won't really know how well the suspension is set up until spring next year, so can't comment on the fork performance yet.

    I am a little concerned about captain seat post flex though. It's a 350mm Easton EA70, and is on the minimum insertion limit. When I am manoeuvring the bike about I can see the post visibly flexing. This is being swapped for a 400mm post which I am sure will help.

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    Good job!

    Hi Phil,
    Wow! thats a really nice Christmas present! We love our ECDM. A word of warning though, the bike inspires so much confidence it makes you want to ride crazy things. I really like your color choice. I would seriously consider replacing the captains seatpost with something longer if its only in to the minimum mark. Two of our friends ripped a captains seatpost in half while riding given a similar situation and that is not pretty. You have more self control than I would be able to muster in waiting until spring to get that beauty all muddy. All the best and a Happy Holiday!
    Ed and Pat Gifford
    Toms River, NJ USA

  95. #95
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    Very nice.

    In regards to that seat post, consider also that the minimum mark is when used only for seating, you now have it doing double duty holding a set of bars.

    I too would have a tough time putting that tandem away while waiting for spring.

    Maybe while waiting, you could complete the color scheme and get those white lower fork legs paint removed and to a brushed aluminum finish or polished. Regardless though it is a good looking ride.

    PK

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    Thanks for the complements guys!

    It should have been a longer post, and that's on the way now. I just wondered whether anyone had purposefully fitted a stronger post to the front before.

    Polished forks would look really sweet. I think the missus would kill me if I started to take it to bits now though! Thats a job for next winter.

    We shall be riding it when it is not snowy and icy, but only locally, so no demanding trails for a while.

    I wonder if I could smuggle it on holiday to the Caribbean with me though...

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by phill77
    I just wondered whether anyone had purposefully fitted a stronger post to the front before.
    I have about the same amount of exposed seat post (see above), and fitted a 400mm Thomson specifically due to the consequences of a captain's seat post failure

    Quote Originally Posted by phill77
    I wonder if I could smuggle it on holiday to the Caribbean with me though...
    That's what's got me drooling over an S&S frame.

  98. #98
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    Well I have to post just a couple picks here of the original ECDM


    and then the new custom that became normal after 6 months




    This is one heck of a bike if I do say so myself, and I do!
    Zipper aka Rob

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    A new El Testigo for the New Year?

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okayfine
    A new El Testigo for the New Year?
    Don't think they make el Testigos any more, since you can up the travel on the el Conquistador now.
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