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Thread: The ECDM thread

  1. #1
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    The ECDM thread

    Well I started a Fandango thread so why not one for the ECDM's out there.

    So share your thoughts, good, bad, what year bike, how it's built, the team that rides it, and where or what terrain it rolls across.

    PK
    Last edited by PMK; 08-10-2010 at 09:00 PM.

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    The drive home from AORTA 2010 had us talking tandems.

    Somehow I convinced the boss we needed another tandem. We decided to buy Tim from Knoxvilles 2006 ECDM in electric super dust.

    The bike has a nice build with DT hubs, Sun rims, ATC fork, SRAM / Raceface drivetrain, Magura discs and Thomson based controls. Frame size is the "semi-custom" 21/18.

    We went with our typical Terry saddles.

    Upon getting the bike, I made some little changes in cable and hose routing. Frame saver'd the paint work, and gave her the once over for spoke tensions and shifting. Overall a great bike for us.

    I did notice the rear shock upper bushing was 8mm ID on 6mm bolt. Not sure what happened there but purchase of a new bushing from Ventana got it corrected.

    The first ride I noticed the rear Fox RP3 had to be run with rebound fully closed. Prior to the next ride the fluid was replaced and a damper service done. Still the rebound was to light. I pulled it apart and revalved the rebound circuit. Next ride had the rebound adjuster set mid way. The bike was working very well.

    For whatever reason, I decided it needed a better rear damper, so I purchased a used 07 Fox DHX 5.0 air. This thing had a large air can. The damping action was excellent, but the air spring rate was to linear. I replaced the large can to a small can, restting pressures. This made the bike work even better.

    The DHX damper has external adjustments for rebound, multi click pro-pedal, and bottoming ramp pressure. Almost too much to figuire out via stoker communication, but I think we dialed it in.

    Fork is a modified ATC set at just over 100mm travel.

    Things to like, suspension on rough trails.

    Things I don't like, to me electric super dust always looks dirty, though it is cool in the sun.

    We are a larger team at 370 dry, and the bike is ridden in South Florida primarily on very tight technical singletrack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK

    ...Things I don't like, to me electric super dust always looks dirty, though it is cool in the sun.
    Pictures??

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    Might I suggest re-naming the thread title to include the full, non abbreviated name of the bike. Would probably get some more search hits and help newbies (like myself).

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    Our El Conq

    We have a 2006 El Conq in red. It was a surprise anniversary present for my lovely bride, and she didn't kill me for doing it...

    It is a semi-custom 17/14 with a the toptube from a 19. We are a 300 lb team riding in the Colorado desert. Lots of rocks and moderate climbing. The spec was a MTBTandems basic: Sram X-9, Magura louise brakes, White Industries/Sun MTX wheels, ATC fork, RP23 rear shock.

    Things we have done (or had to do):
    New fork - our ATC was bad. Now using Marzocchi Jr T. 170mm, which is more than I want but it works well.

    New 5" rockers on the rear - I felt the suspension ramped up too quickly and we were not getting good travel use. I was torn between PUSH and new rockers. The 5" rockers really helped this.

    New rear hub -blew up the White and are now trying a DT Swiss.

    New rear Der (x-7) - tore the old one off.

    converted the rear wheel to tubeless (ghetto) - works great.

    Ergon grips - work well once the angle is dialed in.

    Thinking of ditching the Maguras in favor of Avid BB7's, but haven't done it yet.

    I'll post more pics when it is cleaned up from our Crested Butte vacation - but here's a couple of local riding shots.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The ECDM thread-12012.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-12013.jpg  

    Last edited by Trails4Two; 08-10-2010 at 02:30 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ds2199
    Pictures??
    Eventually, been raining here since your request.

    PK

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ds2199
    Pictures??
    Taken in sunlight after a wash down and wipe dry. Sometimes it sparkles in rainbow shades, but often looks just dirty.

    PK
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The ECDM thread-copy-img_0676.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-copy-img_0677.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-copy-img_0689.jpg  


  8. #8
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    Ours
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The ECDM thread-copy-img_0679.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-copy-img_0680.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-copy-img_0690.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-copy-img_0687.jpg  


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    Wow! How Tall are you guys? Nice build up but wow, that's got to be one of the largest ECDM's I've EVER seen (And I've seen most of them!)

    -A
    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciclistagonzo
    Wow! How Tall are you guys? Nice build up but wow, that's got to be one of the largest ECDM's I've EVER seen (And I've seen most of them!)

    -A
    That's the thing, we are not that tall. Stoker is 5"6" and I'm just touch over 5"10". The bike was bought initially to cannibalize and then have a new frame made with a stronger headtube junction made to reduce frame flex.

    We test rode an ECDM at AORTA, which I believe was the same size front but 2(?) sizes smaller in the back. Ironically, neither the test bike nor our bike is yet to be a concern for my knackers, my short legs are long enough to flat foot me with some clearance when straddling the frame.

    Overall top tube lengths (bars to saddle) mimic within a few mm all of our other bikes, both single and tandem.

    Don't understand it, but it fits us decent and pedals efficient, just doesn't have a lot of seatpost extension.

    PK
    Last edited by PMK; 08-13-2010 at 06:03 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK

    Don't understand it, but it fits us decent and pedals efficient, just doesn't have a lot of seatpost extension.

    PK
    Hey, if it works for you, who cares!
    OLE!
    -A
    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

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    Our 2010 ECDM..

    Just got into doing Tandem rides.

    It's 2010 in Cosmic Orange (Kids Choice).

    ustom Size, 19" Cap 16" Stoker with Double Taco gusset design yielding the standover of the 17" and 14".

    Tandem Team varies from 270lbs to 300lbs depending on which kiddo is back there with me. (Kids are 6 and 8).

    Build kid was a hodge podge of new and spare parts, the most notable being the Hershey Tandem Cranks (old skoo!).
    SLX Drivetrain.
    Marz DJI fork (130mm)
    and BB7 203mm Brakes.

    Will be used mostly for family rides and smoother singletrack until kids get a little older and more comfortable back there. So far my 6 year old Daughter is by far the more aggressive one, wanting to tackle more rocks and bumps!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The ECDM thread-conqui-10-006sm.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-conq-side-mtbr.jpg  

    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciclistagonzo
    Just got into doing Tandem rides.

    It's 2010 in Cosmic Orange (Kids Choice).

    ustom Size, 19" Cap 16" Stoker with Double Taco gusset design yielding the standover of the 17" and 14".

    Tandem Team varies from 270lbs to 300lbs depending on which kiddo is back there with me. (Kids are 6 and 8).

    Build kid was a hodge podge of new and spare parts, the most notable being the Hershey Tandem Cranks (old skoo!).
    SLX Drivetrain.
    Marz DJI fork (130mm)
    and BB7 203mm Brakes.

    Will be used mostly for family rides and smoother singletrack until kids get a little older and more comfortable back there. So far my 6 year old Daughter is by far the more aggressive one, wanting to tackle more rocks and bumps!

    Very nice machine. I saw bike this posted in the Ventana forum a little while back.

    Sorry for sounding abrupt about the bike fitting us. One thing I was noticing while looking at ECDM photos on the Ventana site, was that many ran a lot of exposed seatpost, and some times bars that were quite a bit below the seat height. Kind of an old school type position. Granted my bars are below the seat height also, just not as extreme as some.

    Regardless though, your bike looks great in orange, most important though is you're enjoying it with someone special to you.

    PK

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    PK, no worries, I didn't think you were abrupt! I love the fact that you're made it work as is, that's cool.

    I don't have much of a Choice with the Seat/Bar height. I have a 33" inseam with a 6' frame, so my legs are a bit longer than norm. My Seat will always be higher than the bars. Even my All mountainy single bike (Sorry for posting a single on the tandem forum) has lower bars than seat positon. Funny thing is, it sure doesn't feel like it!
    And thanks, we love "Orange Crush" and hearing the kids hoot in delight is a lot fun!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The ECDM thread-bruja-float-mtbr.jpg  

    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

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    Hi all,
    Meet the Snot Rocket. Our new "toy" we purchased from Alex following AORTA. We love it. Traded up from a Fandango 26'r hardtail to enhance my stokers comfort. Notice the big smile on her face in the last picture. Thanks to Alex and Sherwood for making this happen. Also, thanks to Paul for the picture uploading advice.
    Ed and Pat Gifford
    Toms River, NJ
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The ECDM thread-006.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-008.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-flames-005.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-imgp5721.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-imgp5724.jpg  


  16. #16
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    Hey Ed,
    Can you post some close-ups of your boom tube protection device?
    Thanks
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    678-445-0711
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  17. #17
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    Ed and Pat, as I said in the emails prior to you posting here, I love it.

    Alex, great job on building such a clean looking setup.

    Ed now needs to work on getting Larry and Brenda to get some photos of their Grinched Fandango on the other topic.

    PK

  18. #18
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    There's obviously a lot more ECDM out there. I've seen many on MTBTandems site and the owners section of Ventanas site.

    Post em up, it's nice to see the various ways these have been built up and setup. It will serve as good means to let others see possible upgrades, color combinations, or just ask how it is with the setup you run.

    PK

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by TandemNut
    Hey Ed,
    Can you post some close-ups of your boom tube protection device?
    Thanks
    Yes, please do! We need that!

    It looks like maybe a fine paint job on a piece of PVC pipe cut lengthwise. Am I close?

    I think we want ours to stand out as far as the chain, though.

    Thanks,
    -F

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    Hi All,
    Here are some pics of the skid plate. I need to start out by saying this is not my invention but that of my riding buddy Larry Isherwood. It is a piece of PVC piping but it isn't your Home Depot Sched. 40. It is very thin walled. I think the size is 3". We used to have a piping for sewer drain/DWV that was like this but the building codes have changed and now its all Sched. 40. The closest thing I could find was piping for an in home vacuum system and I couldn't find it locally. Larry found another small piece of this piping at work and made one for us as a gift for our new ECDM.( Thanks again, Lar) The material inside is thin foam weather stripping. Larry cut it by hand with a mini hacksaw and blade but I think a Dremil tool would do the job. You will notice the notch at one end. This is for chain and granny gear clearance. Also a series of drain holes were drilled in the bottom on centerline. It is cut so it fits snugly around the boom tube and would probably be OK like that but we use high voltage electrical tape that sticks only to itself to secure it at both ends. It leaves no glue residue on the finish.We have scraped over some obstacles and this takes the worry out of damaging your paint/powder coat finish. I put the color matched flames on just to add a personal touch.
    Please post any other inventions of this nature so we can all share our wisdom.
    Ed Gifford
    Toms River, NJ
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The ECDM thread-skid-plate-001.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-skid-plate-002.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-skid-plate-003.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-skid-plate-004.jpg  


  21. #21
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    No, no... You want to wear your battle-scars like a badge of honor....

    (really-large image linked to this photo; just click)

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    Not sure if this has been a concern for others.

    We have had random ghost shifts. The most obvious and repeatable was a short rooty climb that used most of the rear suspension travel going across the roots at the top.

    Checks of the rear der system found nothing.

    After a few rides, I noticed some marks where the rear suspension upper strut pivot, would contact the front der cable.

    For whatever reason, this frame has the braze on for the cable offset left from the seattube centerline. Perfect for everything except when the suspension fully compresses.

    I devised a quick low cost remedy. Using a V brake noodle and liner assembly, I opened the factory bend slightly and trimmed the tube shorter. I reassembled the noodle, then trimmed the housing as appropriate for the noodles length. Reinstalled, connected and set the front Der cable.

    So far it seems fine with no skips.

    Just sharing some stuff.

    BTW, late 2005 build as a 2006 model.

    PK
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The ECDM thread-copy-img_0691.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-copy-img_0692.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-copy-img_0693.jpg  


  23. #23
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    Tandem (triple?) pic

    Here's one shot from our vacation in Crested Butte this month. We did some other great trails, but nobody was there to catch a pic. This is at the bottom of an fairly easy family ride. My son (4.5yrs) is just starting to go on trails.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The ECDM thread-0820a.jpg  


  24. #24
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    Ciclistagonzo - question

    Do you have a custom headtube angle? It looks more slack than others.

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    Skid Plat Close Ups on the ECDM - Screamcycle

    Quote Originally Posted by TandemNut
    Hey Ed,
    Can you post some close-ups of your boom tube protection device?
    Thanks
    Here is our two year old Screamcycle and it's well used skid plate that I made for it when as soon as I got the bike to keep the aluminum boom tube from becoming scraped up & flattened since we live in a rocky area in North Eastern NJ.

    Happy Trails,
    Larry & Brenda ( TeamBreeze )
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The ECDM thread-2010-08-16-013.jpg  

    Larry & Brenda
    (Team Breeze)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Breeze - Screamcycle
    Here is our two year old Screamcycle and it's well used skid plate that I made for it when as soon as I got the bike to keep the aluminum boom tube from becoming scraped up & flattened since we live in a rocky area in North Eastern NJ.

    Happy Trails,
    Larry & Brenda ( TeamBreeze )
    Don't know what happened to the two close ups of the skid plate, but hopefully they are here now.....
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The ECDM thread-2010-08-16-010.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-2010-08-16-012.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-2010-08-16-013.jpg  

    Larry & Brenda
    (Team Breeze)

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    ECDM Pics

    Here's a couple of pics of our ECDM. Needs to get cleaned up a bit.
    Primary components:
    X.9 shifters and deraileurs
    Marz 55ATA
    DaVinci cranks
    Industry Nine wheels
    Magura Louise BAT brakes

    <table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/jviROmWZQjc6yNSzuvlM9g?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_KShXbXYxE2I/THHckPcFxtI/AAAAAAAADDQ/NtJcJ-1jrng/s800/tandem.jpg" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/dan.orlinski/Grinch?feat=embedwebsite">Grinch</a></td></tr></table>
    <table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/YpPaPDZ81rUa4Sh_nkb5ig?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_KShXbXYxE2I/THHdN8lsGvI/AAAAAAAADDY/F4K8sVFRqxA/s800/tandem1.jpg" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/dan.orlinski/Grinch?feat=embedwebsite">Grinch</a></td></tr></table>
    Here's one that Chris (aka Trails4Two) took when we were in Fruita earlier this year
    <table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/1POgouhodWshby5aAz2Lgw?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_KShXbXYxE2I/THHdCaOWPxI/AAAAAAAADDU/FeWFYKqGzfE/s800/0330e.jpg" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/dan.orlinski/Grinch?feat=embedwebsite">Grinch</a></td></tr></table>
    Last edited by ds2199; 08-23-2010 at 06:40 AM.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Breeze - Screamcycle
    Don't know what happened to the two close ups of the skid plate, but hopefully they are here now.....

    When we rode with Larry and Brenda at AORTA 2010, they pounded over a logover. The glideplate made a funky slapping sound. Then we watched it appeared the bike accelerated as it slid on the plastic. Brenda got popped up in the air a bit as the rear tire contacted the logover.

    Some where this is on video from our helmetcam. It was crazy to witness, and then see again on video.

    PK

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ds2199
    Here's a couple of pics of our ECDM. Needs to get cleaned up a bit.
    Primary components:
    X.9 shifters and deraileurs
    Marz 55ATA
    DaVinci cranks
    Industry Nine wheels
    Magura Louise BAT brakes

    <table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/jviROmWZQjc6yNSzuvlM9g?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_KShXbXYxE2I/THHckPcFxtI/AAAAAAAADDQ/NtJcJ-1jrng/s800/tandem.jpg" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/dan.orlinski/Grinch?feat=embedwebsite">Grinch</a></td></tr></table>
    <table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/YpPaPDZ81rUa4Sh_nkb5ig?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_KShXbXYxE2I/THHdN8lsGvI/AAAAAAAADDY/F4K8sVFRqxA/s800/tandem1.jpg" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/dan.orlinski/Grinch?feat=embedwebsite">Grinch</a></td></tr></table>
    Here's one that Chris took when we were in Fruita earlier this year
    <table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/1POgouhodWshby5aAz2Lgw?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_KShXbXYxE2I/THHdCaOWPxI/AAAAAAAADDU/FeWFYKqGzfE/s800/0330e.jpg" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/dan.orlinski/Grinch?feat=embedwebsite">Grinch</a></td></tr></table>


    Very Nice.

    What race, Leadville?

    PK

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by TandemGeek
    No, no... You want to wear your battle-scars like a badge of honor....

    (really-large image linked to this photo; just click)
    Very nice; got a daVinci with a boom tube that looks like that.
    However, since we don't hang our tandems from the ceiling, if anyone ever sees our boom tube scars from that particular angle, we've either achieved massive (and likely unsurvivable) air, or we're in an inadvertantly inverted position due to some bad DWC judgement. Either way, it won't be pretty.
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    North WESTERN New Jersey ...not Eastern ...duh

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Breeze - Screamcycle
    Here is our two year old Screamcycle and it's well used skid plate that I made for it when as soon as I got the bike to keep the aluminum boom tube from becoming scraped up & flattened since we live in a rocky area in North WESTERN New Jersey ....NOT Eastern NJ.

    Happy Trails,
    Larry & Brenda ( TeamBreeze )
    DUH....TYPO .....We live in North WESTERN New Jersey!!!
    Larry & Brenda
    (Team Breeze)

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK
    Very Nice.

    What race, Leadville?

    PK
    Yes - Leadville.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Breeze - Screamcycle
    DUH....TYPO .....We live in North WESTERN New Jersey!!!
    Is this the same as New York?

    PK

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK
    When we rode with Larry and Brenda at AORTA 2010, they pounded over a logover. The glideplate made a funky slapping sound. Then we watched it appeared the bike accelerated as it slid on the plastic. Brenda got popped up in the air a bit as the rear tire contacted the logover.

    Some where this is on video from our helmetcam. It was crazy to witness, and then see again on video.

    PK
    If you ever find the time to find this clip and send it to us or let us know when you can post it to your vimeo account online we would sooooooooooo appreciate it.
    Larry & Brenda
    (Team Breeze)

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trails4Two
    Do you have a custom headtube angle? It looks more slack than others.
    Sorry T42 I was away on a mtb vacation, just saw this q.

    Not intentionally, I do run the Marz at the Stock 130mm, so that may be part of it, but with a 72" wheelbase I think it only changes the headangle by 1/2 degree.

    I will measure it tonight and let you know what it is.

    -A
    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

  36. #36
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    Team Breeze - Screamcycle,

    Where in NW NJ do you live? I'm in Chester and ride the Allamuchy area nearly every weekend. We have an ~2000 EDCM that has gotten less use with little kids at home. I'm actually going to get it out this Saturday (likely, not definite) this weekend when we ride with some friends on single bikes at either Stephen's or Deer Park.
    Barry

  37. #37
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    Howdy Neighbor !

    Quote Originally Posted by CrashCanipe
    Team Breeze - Screamcycle,

    Where in NW NJ do you live? I'm in Chester and ride the Allamuchy area nearly every weekend. We have an ~2000 EDCM that has gotten less use with little kids at home. I'm actually going to get it out this Saturday (likely, not definite) this weekend when we ride with some friends on single bikes at either Stephen's or Deer Park.
    Barry
    Hi Barry & wife!
    We live in the next town....Succasunna....we'll definitely have to get together.....and there are more of us (off road tandems) local within the area!
    Larry & Brenda
    Larry & Brenda
    (Team Breeze)

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Breeze - Screamcycle
    Hi Barry & wife!
    We live in the next town....Succasunna....we'll definitely have to get together.....and there are more of us (off road tandems) local within the area!
    Larry & Brenda
    That's terrific. NJ is a great place for a tandem (or any bike). Great variety of terrain - 6 Mile, Chimney Rock, Lewis Morris, Allamuchy, Mahlon, etc. Have never made it to Kittantiny (sp?). Getting together with other tandems would be incentive for us to get the tandem out more often. I will PM you my contact info. Oh, and I would love the see the Fandango 29er in action. Our ECDM is not a perfect size (a little too big) so I've considered making a change. Plus, all my single bikes now are 29ers.
    Barry

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrashCanipe
    That's terrific. NJ is a great place for a tandem (or any bike). Great variety of terrain - 6 Mile, Chimney Rock, Lewis Morris, Allamuchy, Mahlon, etc. Have never made it to Kittantiny (sp?). Getting together with other tandems would be incentive for us to get the tandem out more often. I will PM you my contact info. Oh, and I would love the see the Fandango 29er in action. Our ECDM is not a perfect size (a little too big) so I've considered making a change. Plus, all my single bikes now are 29ers.
    Barry
    We did try to reply to your e-mail to us at our private e-mail address and it came back as delivery failed.
    So please e-mail us privately again...we shoudl be heading to Stephens this Sunday at 10am with friends.
    Larry & Brenda
    (Team Breeze)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciclistagonzo
    Sorry T42 I was away on a mtb vacation, just saw this q.

    Not intentionally, I do run the Marz at the Stock 130mm, so that may be part of it, but with a 72" wheelbase I think it only changes the headangle by 1/2 degree.

    I will measure it tonight and let you know what it is.

    -A
    I'm getting 71.75 Degrees Head tube angle. Only 0.25 off of stock. I bet its mostly an optical illusion because of the sloping top tube.

    -Aaron
    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

  41. #41
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    Thanks for checking. I was just curious. Hopefully my stokers broken finger will heal up soon so we can get out for some kind of ride. Our poor bike has been sitting for almost three weeks during prime season!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trails4Two
    Hopefully my stokers broken finger will heal up soon so we can get out for some kind of ride. Our poor bike has been sitting for almost three weeks during prime season!
    Sorry for the lack of sympathy but I can hear my mother saying "If the bone isn't poking through your skin, tape a popsicle stick on it and go!"

    Yes, she would say that. Old school.

    -F

    PS - sorry to go so OT

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    No sympathy needed. She broke it riding singletrack here in Junction and two days later was biking in Crested Butte for 5 days - this might be why it still hurts a bit...

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trails4Two
    Here's one shot from our vacation in Crested Butte this month. We did some other great trails, but nobody was there to catch a pic. This is at the bottom of an fairly easy family ride. My son (4.5yrs) is just starting to go on trails.
    Somehow I overlooked this photo.

    Very cool to get the entire family involved.

    PK

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trails4Two
    Here's one shot from our vacation in Crested Butte this month. We did some other great trails, but nobody was there to catch a pic. This is at the bottom of an fairly easy family ride. My son (4.5yrs) is just starting to go on trails.
    How hard is it for the captain to keep everyone upright? I'm looking to do that on gentle trails and toe-paths. Do you just bomb through it on a big bike and pray he holds on in the way back?
    I just took my son out this weekend for 6.5mi on my single plus his trail-a-bike. If you look back at your picture, the last 15ft you just cleared, that was what 75% of our ride was like. Picking and choosing the best line, trying to lessen the impact on him, knowing I couldn't just hop an obstacle. Roots, rocks, off camber 12" wide single track.......my upper body was put through the wringer. Felt like I would have if I did 3-4x the mileage alone.

  46. #46
    PMK
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    C'mon Tandemgeek, CrashCanipe, and others, share a photo and some build specs.

    It may help others considering similar stuff hear how well it works, or maybe doesn't.

    I know I'd like to see the suspension geometry curve on Tandemgeeks earlier ECDM. Kind of curious if rate is rising 100% or if it is falling rate deep in the stroke. Could be a good test to try a more modern rear damper.

    PK

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    I will try to get some pictures this weekend.

    Our EDCM is about 12 years old so it is not as shiny as some of the ones posted on here. It has a 2001 Zoke DJ1 fork I bought from Alex and a rare set of Kooka cranks. It needs to have the rear shock replaced and could use a stiffer front fork. The Team Breeze crew got to hear the squeaks of the rear shock our whole ride last weekend.

  48. #48
    PMK
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    What rear damper? Fox ALPs series?

    Good rear damper in many ways. Has many design features that make it superior to current stuff.

    PK

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK
    C'mon Tandemgeek, CrashCanipe, and others, share a photo and some build specs.

    It may help others considering similar stuff hear how well it works, or maybe doesn't.

    I know I'd like to see the suspension geometry curve on Tandemgeeks earlier ECDM. Kind of curious if rate is rising 100% or if it is falling rate deep in the stroke. Could be a good test to try a more modern rear damper.

    PK
    PK, you're going to make my Ventanaphile Show!.

    All Ventana's use the same linkage design, so in that respects, I know 'em very well. Original suspension Ventana's even the Marble Peak style (shock attached to Top tube) were "linear rate" that is, they were rising rate first 1/2 of travel and then falling rate second half. Hence why they were plush but didn't bottom out hard, (the falling rate second half counters the air shocks inheret rising rate spring curve).

    Right about 2005, modern dampers with the platform dampers caused V to adjust the kinetics, they switched to 2/3 rising 1/3 falling rate (on average) the longer rising rate was used to drive the shocks more and get more active travel out of the mid stroke of the shocks.
    I don't think this applies to the tandems as they have maintiained the 2" stroke shocks, but.
    In 2008, Ventana adjusted the rockers again to start using longer stroke shocks. Those are still 2/3 rising, 1/3 falling, but with more stroke to work with the rockers aren't as aggresively driving the shock, netting a smoother ride.

    I'm eager to get my kids more accustomed to offroading since I have the old 6" (150mm) rockers from my Bruja collecting dust and I may just swap out the 4" rockers to those and balance out my travel with the front. (130mm).

    OLE!
    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

  50. #50
    PMK
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciclistagonzo
    PK, you're going to make my Ventanaphile Show!.

    All Ventana's use the same linkage design, so in that respects, I know 'em very well. Original suspension Ventana's even the Marble Peak style (shock attached to Top tube) were "linear rate" that is, they were rising rate first 1/2 of travel and then falling rate second half. Hence why they were plush but didn't bottom out hard, (the falling rate second half counters the air shocks inheret rising rate spring curve).

    Right about 2005, modern dampers with the platform dampers caused V to adjust the kinetics, they switched to 2/3 rising 1/3 falling rate (on average) the longer rising rate was used to drive the shocks more and get more active travel out of the mid stroke of the shocks.
    I don't think this applies to the tandems as they have maintiained the 2" stroke shocks, but.
    In 2008, Ventana adjusted the rockers again to start using longer stroke shocks. Those are still 2/3 rising, 1/3 falling, but with more stroke to work with the rockers aren't as aggresively driving the shock, netting a smoother ride.

    I'm eager to get my kids more accustomed to offroading since I have the old 6" (150mm) rockers from my Bruja collecting dust and I may just swap out the 4" rockers to those and balance out my travel with the front. (130mm).

    OLE!
    Sherwood and I discussed a bit about the design and percentage of riding vs falling rate along the suspension plot. He also brought in the topic of anti-squat, something most suspension designers overlook to often. As a suspension geek myself, it was a fun discussion. One of the reasons for it was initially we were considering having a frame built for us. I had planned to use a Cane Creek / Ohlins TTx coil over and wanted a greater percentage of the movement rising rate.

    As it turned out, this ECDM we bought is working very well for us. I am not a fan of lockout systems on a suspension bike. The only time we would ever engage one is on very smooth terrain.

    Our RP3 that the bike came with was way off on the rebound damping rate. I revalved the shim stack and lucked out to get the damping good with the clicker set midway on the first attempt. We put some miles on it and found it decent. Prior to revalving it further, I moved forward and bought the DHX5.0. Other than the air spring volume being to large, it has been pretty good as delivered. Currently the rear is far superior to the front ATC fork.

    I don't know how I'll pull this off money wise, but the wife said yes we need a different fork since having the front get sketchy bothers her. We haven't gone down yet from it sliding the front tire, but a few times she asked "didn't you feel the front tire steeping out?". The casual reply was well yeah, did you?

    The fork ordered is a Fox40RC2 Kashima. I'm expecting I'll need to revalve both the fork and DHX a couple of times before it's best for us. Thought the fork may arrive today, then I need to clip the travel. Guessing I'll settle on about 115/120 mm. Get it on and broken in. Then start playing with shim stacks. With luck, and our current schedule, this will be late October to see happen.

    Like the Fandango topic, I thought this might be a spot where teams might let others see their rides AND share setup details, such as team weights, clicker settings, air pressures both front and rear, sag amounts if ever measured, but most importantly what each setup does well and what needs to be better. As I've mentioned before, this is not a topic of mine is better than yours, rather one of you have a pretty cool setup tell us more.

    As for the ECDMs with the early style frames and ALPs dampers, if you need info, just ask, I've rebuilt a lot of them over the last 15 years.

    Also, has anyone tried a PUSH big hit bottoming cushion on their ECDM?

    PK

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