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Thread: The ECDM thread

  1. #201
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    Ecdm 29

    We finally received the rest of out parts and as a result, now have a complete bike.

    Here's the lowdown:
    Ventana ECDM 29 frame carbon black (17/16) 145 rear spacing
    SRAM XO 3x10
    Maura MT4 brakes
    Chris King hubs (36h) laced to Velocity P35 rims
    Fox 34 Talas fork
    DaVinci cranks (anodized black) 22-32-44
    Phil Wood BBs
    11/36 cassette
    Happy to say that it came in under 43 lbs (ready to ride, including pedals)

    In case you are really paying attention, You may notice the rear brake is an Avid BB7, it's temporary, until I get a longer brake line for the Magura.

    Only been on two rides so far, but we're already digging the new bike. I'll follow up with a full review, but it may have to wait until spring. We'll see if the weather cooperates...

    Here's a couple of pics
    From ECDM 29

    From ECDM 29

  2. #202
    PMK
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    I would have expected no less. Very nice.

    145mm rear for wheel interchangeability with the Fandango?

    Again very nice.

    Is it fast?

    PK
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  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    I would have expected no less. Very nice.

    145mm rear for wheel interchangeability with the Fandango?

    Again very nice.

    Is it fast?

    PK
    Thanks PK!

    145 for added strength on the 29" wheel.

    Fast as we can pedal it! Which is relatively slow these days.

    I need to ride the Fandango back to back with the ECDM to get a good perspective. But I think the black bike will become our "go to" bike, especially on the rougher trails.

  4. #204
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    I hate to ask but is the fork tandem rated? It looks like it has the Kashima coating. Fifteen millimeter through axle?

    Very sweet build.

  5. #205
    PMK
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    Jamie, FWIW, NO Fox fork is tandem rated. They are quite explicit in their warranty statement.

    On that build, with xc as the goal, Jeanne and I, would run that thing all day long.

    We have never run a 15mm axle, maybe DS can comment on the 15mm axle.

    PK
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  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by malaclemys View Post
    I hate to ask but is the fork tandem rated? It looks like it has the Kashima coating. Fifteen millimeter through axle?

    Very sweet build.
    Nope. Fox does not rate any of their forks for tandem use. 15mm through axle, 34mm stanchions. We a are relatively light team...

    Thanks! It's a ton of fun!

    Interesting observation after a few rides, with the Talas fork, I have switched between 110mm of travel and 140mm and they are not kidding when they say that a frame is "optimized" for a certain travel fork. The bike rides way better with the shorter travel. I guess this should not be a surprise, but it is apparent when you can switch back and forth on the fly.

  7. #207
    fai
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    AJR

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by fai View Post
    Many changes for 2012
    Beyond the HT change, what else changed?

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by fai View Post
    I spy with my little eye... something beginning with "tapered headtube" and "Kashima coated Fox shock"...

  10. #210
    PMK
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    The FlickR account says it was taken in August. The photo is the same frame that was on the recently posted link to the new Ventana website.

    As cool as it is, we'll run our 2006 until a major redesign is released.

    Overall, these bikes are very capable of some serious riding.

    PK
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  11. #211
    fai
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    Lowered bottom brackets,more aggressive geometry, shorter wheelbase, increased captain standover clearance, tapered head tube.
    AJR

  12. #212
    PMK
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    Quote Originally Posted by fai View Post
    Lowered bottom brackets,more aggressive geometry, shorter wheelbase, increased captain standover clearance, tapered head tube.
    While the more aggressive geometry would be nice, complimented also with less length, lower bottom brackets means we won't be owning a new Ventana. That alone, less clearance, is a deal breaker for us since our current bike ECDM is so limited in regards to getting over or through stuff clean.

    It is such a bummer to be killing tight, rip the ends of your grips off, singletrack with a group single bikes, only to have to stop and lift the bike over stuff that isn't that tall, but forces the tandem to be lifted over.

    I have some ideas on how I want our ultimate frame to be and also better fork design since the tandems can't wheely or lift the front easily. So much of how we ride is based on keeping speed and momentum and as good as it is now, it can be better. More finesse, less of a controlled crash.

    Maybe it is time to draw the plans and work with a custom shop to build what we really want / need..

    PK
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  13. #213
    "the big red train"
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    While the more aggressive geometry would be nice, complimented also with less length, lower bottom brackets means we won't be owning a new Ventana. That alone, less clearance, is a deal breaker for us since our current bike ECDM is so limited in regards to getting over or through stuff clean.

    Maybe it is time to draw the plans and work with a custom shop to build what we really want / need..

    PK
    You can always contact Sherwood about a full custom. I agree with the bb height and think that a lower bb will cause issues. We're riding and old school ECDM circa 2001. I'm waiting for somebody to pull the trigger on a new frame so that I can buy their old one. I'd like a 2010 frame with 6" rockers and a coil shock to compliment our 66VF fork. I'd like to wait for a 29er ECDM but I'm waiting on forks and wheels, and I don't see a 29er full bore DH bike in the near future.
    Patrick Zibell
    Fullerton, CA

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by zibell View Post
    You can always contact Sherwood about a full custom. I agree with the bb height and think that a lower bb will cause issues. We're riding and old school ECDM circa 2001. I'm waiting for somebody to pull the trigger on a new frame so that I can buy their old one. I'd like a 2010 frame with 6" rockers and a coil shock to compliment our 66VF fork. I'd like to wait for a 29er ECDM but I'm waiting on forks and wheels, and I don't see a 29er full bore DH bike in the near future.
    Patrick Zibell
    Fullerton, CA
    We'll see, Sherwood seems pretty busy and Teresa, possibly via Sherwood was not to interested in truly going "full custom". I inquired about building a bike with the new ass end on it. As I said, they were very busy at the time, so who knows.

    Probably should just ride more, pedal harder, go faster, and if needed hold on tighter.

    PK
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  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by fai View Post
    Lowered bottom brackets,more aggressive geometry, shorter wheelbase, increased captain standover clearance, tapered head tube.
    Where'd you get that info?
    MTB Tandems Inc.
    678-445-0711
    www.MTBTandems.com

  16. #216
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    Another California tandem posted in the Ventana section

    Follow along children. Tandem build!
    Reps! We don't need no stickin' reps!

  17. #217
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    Here is our new coupled ECDM 29er that we took delivery of two weeks ago. We put it together rode it 150 yards and put it back in the cases and flew to Moab and did a five day Maze trip in Canyonlands National Park. The bike exceeded our expectations in just about every way. We have a 26 ECDM also and the bikes ride quite differently. We were able to ride some of the most technical stuff we have ever ridden. It is also the most plush ride we have ridden and the new WTB Loop fork worked very well. Sherwood worked to give me as much standover height as he could and it is much better then the 26 in that regards. It is a 17/16. Alex at MTB tandems did a great job as the bike was flawless on the 5 day ride with just the usual breakin adjustments needed. It is as easy to pack as our road tandem and each case weighted 49 lbs packed so it meets airline requirements and we were not charged to fly with it. We also rented a standard car so it saved from having to rent a van. A few trips will save the cost of the couplers. BTW the couplers from Ventana are the best bargain in biking at $1500 which includes the hard cases and tubing cover material. The cases sell for 500 each. Alex was able to find a few things in blue to compliment the frame color and add a little bling. The best thing about the bike was that Karen absolutely loved the new bike so I had a very happy stoker and did not drop her once on the trip. The pictures show a little bit of the record snow we had this year in Anchorage.
    17/16 coupled 29er ECDM frame
    sram drivetrain 3X9 w/grip shift
    Middleburn cranks
    WTB Loop fork
    FSA Carbon bars
    Chris King hubs w/ Sun rims sapin spokes WTB 2.5 tires
    Hope V2 tech brakes w/ floating discs
    complete with spectacular stoker
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The ECDM thread-dsc_0117.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-dsc_0118.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-dsc_0126.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-dsc_0127.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-dsc_0122.jpg  


  18. #218
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    Very, very nice. I'll be interested to know what you decide to do about the couplers and trail dust.

  19. #219
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    Very nice looking bike!!! Some day when I am packing my "uncoupled" bike to travel to some far away place I am going to wish we had ours built coupled as well...

    I still owe a longer term report on our bike, maybe with some detailed pics like akexpress has done.

    By the way, what is your low gear? or what cassette and chainrings are you running?

  20. #220
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    ride picture

    great with kids too
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The ECDM thread-tandem-max.jpg  

    I've been inside too long.

  21. #221
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    Looking to upgrade my 9 year old brakes. How do you like the V2's? Have you had the chance to give em a good workout yet? On the fence between the 2013 Saint and the Hope V2. My Hope Enduro 4 pots work fine for normal stuff but killer hills cook em.

    Awesome bike you have there by the way. Keep us posted on how the couplers work out for you.

  22. #222
    "the big red train"
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    Hey Stevoo, my 4pots also boil on big downhills(luckly they come back fast)
    . Are you running braided lines or standard lines? I'm running standard lines and was wondering if the braided lines would be any better performance on the big downhills?

  23. #223
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    Running standard lines as well. The braided lines won't help as the fluid is boiling inside where the pistons get the heat from the pad backing. The braided line is so small of an addition of thin metal on the outside that from a heatsink standpoint it ain't gonna help and it is too fr away from the heat source to be of any use. . Just for an example: I used some thermally conductive epoxy and huge aluminum heatsinks on a previous model caliper and they worked great to get the recovery time down but they in no way addressed the root cause of the problem. Still boiled fluid. If you have melted off the current kevlar hose then the braided hose may help fix that. The heat deal and boiling fluid is a whole other can o worms.

    Been using the super duper Motul brake fluid and I change it often. Using 205mm rotors, EBC organic red pads seem to insulate the heat from the caliper best but wear fast. OEM Hope pads boil fluid rather quickly, sintered metal pads boil fluid in 15 seconds (calipers not designed for sintered metal pads). I was going to machine phenolic pistons to insulate the calipers from the heat but never seem to have enough time to get to it. Called hope and looked at their tech drawings and they went from using stainless pistons to titanium pistons and now I see on some parts lists that they are now using phenolic pistons. That takes them up to 1970's motorcycle technology. I think the V2 uses phenolic pistons and are quite big calipers so that is why I am interested in how they work out.

    I am also interested in the 2013 Shimano Saint's as they seem to be designed to use sintered pads but I worry about the use of mineral oil for fluid. I hear they will also be using the finned heatsink pads like the XTR Trail brakes. We shal see,

  24. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevoo View Post
    Looking to upgrade my 9 year old brakes. How do you like the V2's? Have you had the chance to give em a good workout yet? On the fence between the 2013 Saint and the Hope V2. My Hope Enduro 4 pots work fine for normal stuff but killer hills cook em.

    Awesome bike you have there by the way. Keep us posted on how the couplers work out for you.
    I am very impressed with the V2 brakes. We had some quite long technical descents 800-1000 ft and they were flawless. silent and no apparent fluid issues. I wonder if some of the perceived boil issues are in fact off gassing of the pads. We have braided lines. Our friends whom weigh about 40lbs less then us had issues with the saints very noisy and loss of braking they hated them and it was a new set. Our other bike has mono6 ti and the V2 are better in my opinion. I am getting more experienced about brakes on tandems then I want as we had issues on Mt Ventoux on our Calfee road tandem last year. We started a thread over on the road tandem forum regarding Avid mechanical discs. We are a 340 lbs team with lots of riding for many years but only abut 5 years on tandems. I do not expect any coupler issues.

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevoo View Post
    Been using the super duper Motul brake fluid and I change it often.
    Just wondered if you're aware of Castrol React SRF Racing?

    Spec sheet: http://www.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/castr...srf-racing.pdf

    Dry boiling points are about the same ~600F, but where as the Motul 660 has a wet boiling point of 400F... the Castrol has a wet boiling point of ~520F(!!!).

    But I guess if you're cooking dry fluid, then perhaps the heatsinks need to be conductive-epoxied on to the pad backing plates somehow?

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