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Thread: The ECDM thread

  1. #351
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    Summer Maintenance

    Did some additional maintenance work on the ECdM yesterday, prompted by a "strange noise" issue on our Wednesday afternoon ride. Only happened during pedaling so I could rule out the hub (thank goodness!). Finished our ride and only cut it a bit short, but got the bike back home and on the stand. Took the stoker cranks off and gave the bottom bracket a twist. Hmm, less noisy than when we were riding, but similar sound/feel. Replaced the BB with another - we're on ISIS cranks, and since SKF doesn't make their nice ISIS BB any more, I'm stuck with Truvativ Gigipipe DH parts. This last one went 2-3 years.

    While I was at it, I changed out the FD and cable/housing. I hadn't changed the front cable/housing since I put the bike together in 2/2011, so it was time. Hate the SRAM trigger shifters for changing cables, since you have to pop the whole thing apart (and I have to move my brake levers to get to the SRAM shifter bolts). FD came out because it was original to our original bike in 2007, and I had a spare Deore I bought for $6 a couple years ago.

    New sync chain (measured the old one at 1/8" and I'm trying to save the sync rings, so $13 in new chains isn't a big price to pay). Wish I would have measured the chain before I cleaned and lubed it earlier this week.

    And a new captain's seat, since my Fizik has started to crack.

    All of which gave me an excuse to order more parts to keep stock up for the next failure!

  2. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by reamer41 View Post
    What is happening here? How does a poor setup at the rear effect the fork so much? I've experienced it, and the opposite -- a poorly performing fork, but do t understand the interrelationship. ???
    The technical word is called balance. Balance i spring rate, balance of sag front to rear which is not the same at both ends in many cases, balance of the midstroke spring rate, balance of the low speed compression and high speed compression, proper suspension design for the frames front geometry, balance of grip.

    Capped off by not just one rider but two.

    In simplest terms, un balance causes a forward to aft pitching which creates havoc for the other end suspension to deal with.

    PK

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  3. #353
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    The ECDM thread

    [QUOTE=PMK;10501974.

    In simplest terms, un balance causes a forward to aft pitching which creates havoc for the other end suspension to deal with.

    PK

    Some items we have no control over[/QUOTE]

    That makes sense, thanks.
    --Reamer

  4. #354
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    What size ISIS BB do you need? I have two darn near new SKF BB's in 118 that I will let go cheap. I would rather see them in use than collecting dust in my garage.

    I had to go to 113 for proper chain line on my Ellsworth so the 118's are extra.

  5. #355
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    We run modified Truvative BB's, same as yours on the Co-Motion. If you don't convert to the SKS, send a PM and I'll explain the mods.

    PK
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  6. #356
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    Hey Stevoo, thanks for the offer! ECdMs take 113, though.

    PMing Paul.

  7. #357
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    You can still get the SKF bottom brackets at Compass Bicycles. I believe that is were I got my most recent ones. Just found them again on the web. They are still offered.
    At $150 each they are not cheap but they have proven to last a long time.

  8. #358
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    Finally back in the tandem saddle. My wife had never ridden one before and this was a roll of the dice but after two rides in the dirt it is a total hit. She was never really comfortable riding off-road before but now her quote is, "this is great - I don't have to worry about anything."

    Happy stoker. The FS was the right choice - this thing is a pleasure to ride. Only thing it can't really do is quick changes of direction at-speed. But not sure any tandem does that especially well. Thanks to Alex for the great build.


  9. #359
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    Mountain Bikings best kept secret...tandeming off-road.

    PK
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  10. #360
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    Re: The ECDM thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ybtodd View Post
    Finally back in the tandem saddle. My wife had never ridden one before and this was a roll of the dice but after two rides in the dirt it is a total hit. She was never really comfortable riding off-road before but now her quote is, "this is great - I don't have to worry about anything."

    Happy stoker. The FS was the right choice - this thing is a pleasure to ride. Only thing it can't really do is quick changes of direction at-speed. But not sure any tandem does that especially well. Thanks to Alex for the great build.

    Agree with PMK. We rode in miserable weather today on forest service roads just to get out in our tandem.

    Congrats...and, man is that orange sharp!

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

  11. #361
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    Thanks - the input from everyone here was quite useful. We got her proper shoes and pedals this afternoon which has opened her eyes (she never ran clipless before). We rode down to the local coffee place as we met 6 years ago at a coffee place and almost got hit twice. Reminded me why I hate riding on pavement these days.

    I'm still dialing in position. I think I need another cm of stem length and want to go to a layback post so I can get behind the pedals a bit more. The other thing I need to add are some bar ends as I hate riding without them. I think I'm going to try the Ergon ones for grip shift.

    Towards the end of the ride back home I was coming down a steep pavement hill and the rear brake started chattering (Magura). I'm still a disc newbie - they still bedding in or is the noise something I need to sort out? I'll see if it comes back tomorrow.
    Last edited by ybtodd; 07-06-2013 at 08:50 PM.

  12. #362
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    The ECDM thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mhopton View Post
    Congrats...and, man is that orange sharp!
    That orange IS sharp!
    (Same as mine.)
    Those 29" wheel are sharp too. I've got a 26er that otherwise looks about the same. Since I got a 29er solo bike I've been jonesing for a 29er tandem.

    Have a great time on it!
    --Reamer

  13. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by ybtodd View Post
    the rear brake started chattering (Magura). I'm still a disc newbie - they still bedding in or is the noise something I need to sort out? I'll see if it comes back tomorrow.
    There are some common issues with brakes, specifically the rear brakes, on ECdMs. We also used to have a at-times violent rear brake vibration, but all I needed to do was switch pad compounds from sintered to organic. Have run quite a few different brands of pads in the back since with no real return of the issue.

    There are the usual tips to try - make sure the caliper is aligned, the disc and pads are free of contaminates, etc. Alex may also have some tips, if he's sending a lot of bikes out with the same brakes.

    Our vibration/noise was only after the brake was hot, but it was bad enough we couldn't use the rear brake until it cooled, problematic for obvious reasons. Other's have tried a change of pad and still had the issue, but it's where I'd start since I had success.

    Where are you guys based?

  14. #364
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    SoCal. It gets warm here and I was doing some hard stops on a downhill to try and finish off bedding. Probably warmed it up a bit. I'll just do typical riding from now on and see it if pops up again. If so I'll try the pad swap.

  15. #365
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    We have a SoCal Teams thread going on. You should post up a ride offer, or a region you're willing to travel for rides and other teams will follow. We're in Thousand Oaks area, so western Santa Monica Mountains.

  16. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okayfine View Post
    Did some additional maintenance work on the ECdM yesterday, prompted by a "strange noise" issue on our Wednesday afternoon ride. Only happened during pedaling so I could rule out the hub (thank goodness!).
    Or could I? Turns out the noise that prompted the stocker BB R&R WAS actually coming from the CK rear hub after all. I "fixed" it when I took things apart to look, but it would come back during the next ride. After a bit more troubleshooting I noticed the large drive-side bearing would slip in and out of the hub, when it should be an interference fit. I still don't understand how that could result in the noise we got, but in talking with Chris King, they were familiar with the issue.

    They say high spoke tension can pull the hub shell slightly, embiggening the tolerance for the DS bearing. Their fix is to send the wheel up to them and they'll fit a larger DS bearing. We got the wheel back in a little over a week and CK even upgraded the bearing adjuster cup to their new design with a hole for a 2.5mm Allen wrench to provide leverage for adjustment. Nice!

    They also included a caution to have the spoke tension dialed down to their spec range. I took the wheel in to the local shop to have them check and adjust it...but the spoke tension was already within the range CK specifies, albeit at the very top of the range. So now I'm confused as to the original cause of the problem. We have a history with rear hubs on this bike, but the CK hub was supposed to take care of those issues. Two years left on the five year warranty...

  17. #367
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    The ECDM thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Okayfine View Post
    Or could I? Turns out the noise that prompted the stocker BB R&R WAS actually coming from the CK rear hub after all. I "fixed" it when I took things apart to look, but it would come back during the next ride. After a bit more troubleshooting I noticed the large drive-side bearing would slip in and out of the hub, when it should be an interference fit. I still don't understand how that could result in the noise we got, but in talking with Chris King, they were familiar with the issue.

    They say high spoke tension can pull the hub shell slightly, embiggening the tolerance for the DS bearing. Their fix is to send the wheel up to them and they'll fit a larger DS bearing. We got the wheel back in a little over a week and CK even upgraded the bearing adjuster cup to their new design with a hole for a 2.5mm Allen wrench to provide leverage for adjustment. Nice!

    They also included a caution to have the spoke tension dialed down to their spec range. I took the wheel in to the local shop to have them check and adjust it...but the spoke tension was already within the range CK specifies, albeit at the very top of the range. So now I'm confused as to the original cause of the problem. We have a history with rear hubs on this bike, but the CK hub was supposed to take care of those issues. Two years left on the five year warranty...
    Wow, that's an interesting one. I've had only great luck with CK products. Sorry to hear of your issue. At least they gave you a minor upgrade.

    I've also gotten warranty service on a headset that was well outside the warranty. They stand behind their products.
    --Reamer

  18. #368
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    They absolutely do stand behind their products. I'd have just liked a little more information about the whole thing so I can prevent a repeat.

  19. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okayfine View Post
    Or could I? Turns out the noise that prompted the stocker BB R&R WAS actually coming from the CK rear hub after all. I "fixed" it when I took things apart to look, but it would come back during the next ride. After a bit more troubleshooting I noticed the large drive-side bearing would slip in and out of the hub, when it should be an interference fit. I still don't understand how that could result in the noise we got, but in talking with Chris King, they were familiar with the issue.

    They say high spoke tension can pull the hub shell slightly, embiggening the tolerance for the DS bearing. Their fix is to send the wheel up to them and they'll fit a larger DS bearing. We got the wheel back in a little over a week and CK even upgraded the bearing adjuster cup to their new design with a hole for a 2.5mm Allen wrench to provide leverage for adjustment. Nice!

    They also included a caution to have the spoke tension dialed down to their spec range. I took the wheel in to the local shop to have them check and adjust it...but the spoke tension was already within the range CK specifies, albeit at the very top of the range. So now I'm confused as to the original cause of the problem. We have a history with rear hubs on this bike, but the CK hub was supposed to take care of those issues. Two years left on the five year warranty...
    I have seen several CK hubs get slop in the bearings after being ridden some, including the last set I built for my commuter bike. That set had sideways slop and strange noises within 30 miles. Sometimes it's quite early in the life of the wheels, and sometimes later. However, the bearing preload collar is there for just that reason. I don't know that it's necessarily a failure as much as a maintenance/adjustment thing with the hubs. After all, as things wear, they will get slack.
    As far as failures, none on CK so far, even after putting them on tandems for 12+ years, so still the best out there, IMO. And I'd be surprised if you needed your warranty on these hubs.
    MTB Tandems Inc.
    678-445-0711
    www.MTBTandems.com

  20. #370
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    I didn't have slop in the bearing, I had the entire large drive-side bearing freely slide in and out of the hub bore. As in, take off the non-drive-side bearing adjuster cone and the entire guts would slide right out the drive side (cassette, drive shell, drive rings, spring). This was not a bearing adjustment issue - I had the adjuster as tight as was prudent and within 5 miles I was getting the noise again.

    I have the CK special tool to pull the entire hub apart, and I regularly check the bearing adjustment. I've already used the warranty, and since tension was in spec and I've changed nothing, I expect I may have to use it again down the road.

  21. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okayfine View Post
    I expect I may have to use it again down the road.
    Guess what? The noise is back. I asked my stoker, with hope, if it was perhaps the tire rubbing or something. "No, it's the same noise."

  22. #372
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    My longtime friend and local bike shop owner decided it would be nice for him and his wife to give tandems a try. They first picked up a used Burley and shortly after gave Ventana a call and built up this ECDM 29.

    Pretty unique build as is. He is giving the road cranks a try, along with carbon rims and tubliss setup. The remainder is XX, King hubs and Avid hydraulic brakes.

    PK
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The ECDM thread-tommy-marthas-ventana.jpg  

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  23. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    My longtime friend and local bike shop owner decided it would be nice for him and his wife to give tandems a try. They first picked up a used Burley and shortly after gave Ventana a call and built up this ECDM 29.

    Pretty unique build as is. He is giving the road cranks a try, along with carbon rims and tubliss setup. The remainder is XX, King hubs and Avid hydraulic brakes.

    PK
    Nice looking bike there!!!

  24. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    My longtime friend and local bike shop owner decided it would be nice for him and his wife to give tandems a try. They first picked up a used Burley and shortly after gave Ventana a call and built up this ECDM 29.

    Pretty unique build as is. He is giving the road cranks a try, along with carbon rims and tubliss setup. The remainder is XX, King hubs and Avid hydraulic brakes.

    PK
    Love the color!!!
    E&P
    tSRt

  25. #375
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    Ed, understandably, it is obvious you like the color...

    They got in the first "shakedown" ride this past weekend. Nothing technical, simply the Lake O ride. A two day event, riding around Lake Okeechobee with as much as possible on the levee.

    Distance was about 122 miles for both days. Saturday started just right, but with a moderate head wind. The mid portion of the ride, saw rain and cooler temps, with continued head wind. Sunday woke to bright clear skies, wind at our backs. This was along the lakes western portion headed North. The west side of the lake is the less improved section with many miles of mowed grass access road for the vehicles.

    Not a bad first ride for their new machine. Within the first 20 miles, they had made most of the changes they wanted, between seat, bars and pressure settings.

    Without bike fanfare or any green at all...our old school 26 ECDM made a lap of Lake O.

    PK
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  26. #376
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    Received the rear wheel back from CK HQ. Looks like this time they replaced the axle as well as another large drive side bearing. Looking good on time and weather for lots of riding during the extended Turkey week/ends. Black Friday ain't got nuthin' on brown singletrack.

  27. #377
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    As December 13 rolls in, sad to see many parts of the US getting hit with snow or ice.

    On a flip side, this is a fun cool time of year for us, so the ECDM logged some more miles on 12/8.

    If anyone needs to break the winter and has cycling plans for some off-road down south, let us know and we will see about making something happen.

    PK
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  28. #378
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    Guess what's making noise again?

  29. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okayfine View Post
    Guess what's making noise again?
    So, third time is the charm. I guess. Last eight months has seen our tandem out of action for 2.5 months due to our CK hub issue. CK had our wheel again and warrantied the hub, but didn't build it. Since they kept on about the spoke tension, I figured they'd have used this to set it up the way they wanted it. Continue to be disappointed in how little information CK passes along (cause, fixes, etc.). Makes it hard to avoid a repeat if I don't know what they think was the original cause.

    As it is, the wheel is off at our builder's. Taking the additional downtime to get some spring maintenance done on the bike. New rear pads, new drive chain, new rear tire, might even be time for a rear shock seal kit. Past time for a fork oil change and seals. Everything else looks good for the moment, but I'll need to get some Middleburn sync rings sooner than later.

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    Our brief 2-year report:

    ECDM 29er
    Fork: Fox 34 Talas 110
    Drivetrain: Middleburn cranks, XTR F/R derailleurs & shifters
    Brakes: XTR F/R levers & calipers, XT 203mm rotors
    Wheels: King hubs 32H to Stan's Flow rims - hand built by my stoker
    Tires: Specialized FastTrak Control F/R 40 PSI tubeless

    Our tandem rides are limited to longer "gravel grinder" events about 4 times per year. The fork works well for these courses, which include some pretty rough double track but no technically difficult trail. We have had no problems with the wheels. The tires generally perform nicely on the gravel, though we've suffered a slice or two.

    Two issues noted:
    1. The Middleburn chainrings did not work well with the XTR derailleur and Shimano chain. Lorinda replaced the big ring with a DynaSys ring (matching BCD) and the ramps & pins perform much better. Shifting is great now.
    2. Rear braking is spongier than I'd like, though not inadequate. She's improved this by intermittently bleeding the brakes but the issue persists. She thinks this may be a factor of hose length. Since her original bike build, Shimano has released new brake hose that may take care of the issue but she hasn't had time to install it. We had planned to test it out at Kanza, but probably won't make it this year.


  31. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by ycookmd View Post
    Our brief 2-year report:

    ECDM 29er
    Fork: Fox 34 Talas 110
    Drivetrain: Middleburn cranks, XTR F/R derailleurs & shifters
    Brakes: XTR F/R levers & calipers, XT 203mm rotors
    Wheels: King hubs 32H to Stan's Flow rims - hand built by my stoker
    Tires: Specialized FastTrak Control F/R 40 PSI tubeless

    Our tandem rides are limited to longer "gravel grinder" events about 4 times per year. The fork works well for these courses, which include some pretty rough double track but no technically difficult trail. We have had no problems with the wheels. The tires generally perform nicely on the gravel, though we've suffered a slice or two.

    Two issues noted:
    1. The Middleburn chainrings did not work well with the XTR derailleur and Shimano chain. Lorinda replaced the big ring with a DynaSys ring (matching BCD) and the ramps & pins perform much better. Shifting is great now.
    2. Rear braking is spongier than I'd like, though not inadequate. She's improved this by intermittently bleeding the brakes but the issue persists. She thinks this may be a factor of hose length. Since her original bike build, Shimano has released new brake hose that may take care of the issue but she hasn't had time to install it. We had planned to test it out at Kanza, but probably won't make it this year.

    In regards to the brakes, yes it could be the hose is soft and expanding when pressure is applied. A simple addition to the bleed process is to degas the fluid prior to bleeding. Take a strong glass jar with a tight sealed lid. Mason type jar can work. Put the brake fluid inside. Then close the lid and apply 28" or more vacuum to the jars interior. Let it sit under vacuum for several minutes. This will remove micro bubbles from the fluid and may firm the system.

    Again, it may be the hose, but this is easy. Plus if you change the hose, the degas method can be used then also.

    PK
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  32. #382
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    Paul, that's good info. For the home mechanic, how woul you go about applying vacuum to the mason jar?

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

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    I've got a mityvac but can't think of how to use it to pressurize a mason jar....

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

  35. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okayfine View Post
    exactly

    PK
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  36. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhopton View Post
    I've got a mityvac but can't think of how to use it to pressurize a mason jar....

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
    Small hole in the top, then use the suction cup attachment. You will be pulling vacuum, not pressure. Then use the degassed fluid in the brake system. If possible, vacuum bleed the brake system.

    PK
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  37. #387
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    brilliant Paul...

  38. #388
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    Different versions of the Mityvac will allow pressure as well, but as Paul indicated, you'll just be pulling vacuum.

  39. #389
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    Fitting a braided rear hose fixed my spongie rear brake.

  40. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by switchbacktrog View Post
    Fitting a braided rear hose fixed my spongie rear brake.
    Agree 100%, however most of the better brakes have good quality hoses as oem. FWIW, when we got our ECDM, it had Magura brakes front and rear. They came with braided stainless hoses. Others had mentioned that the brakes often were soft and vague. I totally purged the existing fluid. The replacement fluid was degassed and bled into the brake system. With the large rotor on the front at 210mm and smaller rear rotor at 185(?)mm, the bike had no issues stopping after a proper bleed.

    Some people may not realize that this is also how I bleed the clutch on my KTM250exc, but also the rear shock is bleed under vacuum. It is pretty crazy how much air as micro bubbles is in fluid that you can not see.

    Yes a better hose is always best, possibly, when the new hose was installed, the bleed with fresh fluid became a factor also.

    If you run hydraulic brakes, you might consider bleeding the rear often and the front with the rear or every other rear bleed. A fresh bleed and new fluid is important for heavily used brakes.

    PK
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  41. #391
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    While I didn't degas the fluid, I did have some sponginess in my Hope brakes. The Hopes use DOT 5.1 fluid, which turned out to be somewhat difficult to find - even the local moto shops didn't carry it. The Hopes bled just like a traditional car system; take off the cover of the master cylinder, fill, squeeze lever 5 times and hold tight, crack the nipple at the caliper briefly and retighten before introducing air in the caliper. Repeat until you're satisfied and at all costs don't let the master cylinder get too low on fluid.

    For the rear, I completely flushed the system with fresh fluid - I was amazed at the color and amount of dirt in the system. There's obviously a lot of heat at the caliper that degrades the fluid, etc.

    With cleaned, lubed calipers, fresh sintered pads and cleaned rotors, I do believe the system is better than when new as there was always the requirement to "pump up" the brakes when starting a ride. No longer is that needed.



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    Been putting some decent miles on the Bigfoot recently. Yesterday we tried a trail we've avoided for a while due to poor trail conditions. Guadalasco is a single track trail with 9 switchbacks over a little less than 3 miles of climbing. Number 10 on the left on this map:

    Point Mugu State Park Trail Map and Descriptions

    Over the years we've gone from clearing some of the switchbacks to clearing all of them, depending on the trail conditions. Gave it another shot yesterday and there's been a lot of nice trailwork done. We cleared all the switches, though not without some effort. Our bike ran great; we haven't had any issues with anything since dealing with the rear hub earlier this year.

    Summer maintenance is almost here. Going to need to look at the fork at some point, brake pads are getting a bit thin, etc.

  43. #393
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    The ECDM thread

    I haven't re-read the entire thread, but I'm interested in thoughts on other rear shocks for the ECDM. We are not a light team, and the Fox RP23 has never been very good for us. Wondering about a coil spring, or maybe a shock from Cane Creek. Any one with experiences re rear shocks out there?
    --Reamer

  44. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by reamer41 View Post
    I haven't re-read the entire thread, but I'm interested in thoughts on other rear shocks for the ECDM. We are not a light team, and the Fox RP23 has never been very good for us. Wondering about a coil spring, or maybe a shock from Cane Creek. Any one with experiences re rear shocks out there?
    Our Fox RP23 saw a few miles before I had to go inside it and revalve the rebound damping. It was never very good in my testing and opinion. We can ride it but there is better.

    I have not used a Cane Creek on the ECDM. I know the technology but again have not tested one.

    During AORTA #1 I had a moment to talk with Sherwood regarding how he designed the rear suspension linkage location points and leverage ratio. He advised that the frames were designed to be airsprung.

    Going forward, during AORTA#1 we did not own either an ECDM or Fandango. About two months later we had our Ventana and shortly after that got the Fandango together.

    As mention, early rides on the ECDM had the rebound adjuster fully closed, so I revalved the rear shock. The revalve made the shock far better but in the end, the RP23 sits in the spares box.

    My rear shock of choice is the early series of the DHX 5.0 with the round Pro Pedal knob and not the lever.

    The DHX 5.0 must run the small air sleeve or somehow reduce the air volume. With the knob style Pro pedal we have more of a compression adjuster rather than a lockout. There are many more clicks to chose from. For us, we never rode the RP locked out, and with the DHX 5.0, the stoker can make an on the fly setting changes when needed. Climbing for us, without a lockout has never been a problem and in my opinion allows the wheel to follow loose terrain better.

    Also, with the stoker easily adjusting the rear compression, it allows for me to adjust front fork compression on the fly, then she can adjust rear compression (sometimes based on settings I ask for) and within a few minutes, the suspension is dialed in for location and dirt we ride that day.

    FWIW, seldom is the rebound adjuster moved after a good setting is reached. Most adjustments are compression related and deal with square edge bumps or rolling type terrain. Both are easily handled by the old style DHX 5.0.

    As you look, consider FOX has a serious marketing team. Often they come up with new names of the same thing. Or make a minor change and call it something new.

    FWIW, you are best to look into rear shocks with a piggyback style rezzy. This style better controls pressure applied to move the rezzy piston. Non Rezzy shocks have a difficult time on big hits or large shock shaft movements and are prone to cavitate. Also, the non rezzy shocks are super critical to gas pressure to prevent cavitation, require 400 PSI vs the rezzy style which needs 150 PSI. This reduces harshness on small bumps, but has adjustable pressure to help control bottoming.

    All the best with your search.

    PK
    Reps! We don't need no stickin' reps!

  45. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by reamer41 View Post
    I haven't re-read the entire thread, but I'm interested in thoughts on other rear shocks for the ECDM. We are not a light team, and the Fox RP23 has never been very good for us. Wondering about a coil spring, or maybe a shock from Cane Creek. Any one with experiences re rear shocks out there?
    I like Cane Creek's DBInline Air. I had them build me one with ECDM dimensions, as I think it's a great platform for fine-tuning the ride. The Fox is good if you spend some time getting it set up; not sure if the CC will be noticeably better or not.
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  46. #396
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    The ECDM thread

    Paul, Alex, thanks for your comments!

    I've spent a lot of time with the Fox, including a revalve & rebuild by Push. Didn't seem really any better. I'm not comfortable trying to revalve the shock as its way above my level of expertise.

    I may try a DB inline on my solo bike, a Santa Cruz Tallboy LT, and if that works well look for one for the ECDM or the CC DB Air.
    --Reamer

  47. #397
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    Our new to us ECDM

    2002ish ECDM, new enough to have disc tabs, old enough to also have v-brake posts.
    Fork: 2012 Rock SHox Totem with 40% sag
    Components: grab bag from this decade and the last. New saint brakes, and an 8speed xtr drivetrain (with a huge big ring on the triple).

    We ride our ECDM on just about everything. After taking our first tandem (KHS) down some singletrack she was hooked on technical singletrack and I'm more than happy to oblige. She's even willing to risk a crash when we try stuff I'm not 100% sure about (no hard crashes yet though). We ride it both days every weekend and the tires on my old single bikes are starting to have much longer lifespans.

    No real issues with the bike yet. We bent the lowest gear on the cog from putting out too much torque on a steep switchback, and sometimes I feel more lateral flex in the bike than I would prefer but I assume that's normal with tandems.

    This has got to be the funnest bikes I've ridden in years. Every time we take it out (about three months now) it puts a smile on my face as I can't believe the bike is capable of getting through some of the trails we take it on. The shared enjoyment and team effort of the tandem has also done nothing but made me enjoy and appreciate my SO more than ever. The ECDM thread-img_0601.jpgThe ECDM thread-img_0613.jpg

  48. #398
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    Welcome and congrats on the bike and the enjoyment. I think everyone else here agrees with what you two have discovered

    Ventana tandem frames aren't typically regarded as being flexy. I have a Burley steel road tandem, and that IS flexy, so I'm familiar with the sensations. Could have more to do with suspension settings, among other things. I had a (brief?) problem with our rear shock on one ride that made the bike feel VERY squirrly at the back, borderline unrideable.

  49. #399
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    The ECDM thread

    I tried my 7.8$5 x 2.25" shock in the ECDM the other day. There was seat stay to seat tube contact at or near full compression of the shock. This was with the 2.5:1 rockers. I haven't been able to dig the original rockers out of storage yet.

    A surprise. When taking the stock shock off I fount The top shock mount hardware was broken in 2, and the mounting bolt was substantially bent. Thankfully I had a donor-bike I could borrow from... I'll post a picture of the broken parts.
    --Reamer

  50. #400
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    The ECDM thread

    --Reamer

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