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Thread: The ECDM thread

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Breeze - Screamcycle
    Here is our two year old Screamcycle and it's well used skid plate that I made for it when as soon as I got the bike to keep the aluminum boom tube from becoming scraped up & flattened since we live in a rocky area in North Eastern NJ.

    Happy Trails,
    Larry & Brenda ( TeamBreeze )
    Don't know what happened to the two close ups of the skid plate, but hopefully they are here now.....
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The ECDM thread-2010-08-16-010.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-2010-08-16-012.jpg  

    The ECDM thread-2010-08-16-013.jpg  

    Larry & Brenda
    (Team Breeze)

  2. #27
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    ECDM Pics

    Here's a couple of pics of our ECDM. Needs to get cleaned up a bit.
    Primary components:
    X.9 shifters and deraileurs
    Marz 55ATA
    DaVinci cranks
    Industry Nine wheels
    Magura Louise BAT brakes

    From Grinch

    From Grinch

    Here's one that Chris (aka Trails4Two) took when we were in Fruita earlier this year
    From Grinch
    Last edited by ds2199; 08-23-2010 at 06:40 AM.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Breeze - Screamcycle
    Don't know what happened to the two close ups of the skid plate, but hopefully they are here now.....

    When we rode with Larry and Brenda at AORTA 2010, they pounded over a logover. The glideplate made a funky slapping sound. Then we watched it appeared the bike accelerated as it slid on the plastic. Brenda got popped up in the air a bit as the rear tire contacted the logover.

    Some where this is on video from our helmetcam. It was crazy to witness, and then see again on video.

    PK

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ds2199
    Here's a couple of pics of our ECDM. Needs to get cleaned up a bit.
    Primary components:
    X.9 shifters and deraileurs
    Marz 55ATA
    DaVinci cranks
    Industry Nine wheels
    Magura Louise BAT brakes

    From Grinch

    From Grinch

    Here's one that Chris took when we were in Fruita earlier this year
    From Grinch


    Very Nice.

    What race, Leadville?

    PK

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by TandemGeek
    No, no... You want to wear your battle-scars like a badge of honor....

    (really-large image linked to this photo; just click)
    Very nice; got a daVinci with a boom tube that looks like that.
    However, since we don't hang our tandems from the ceiling, if anyone ever sees our boom tube scars from that particular angle, we've either achieved massive (and likely unsurvivable) air, or we're in an inadvertantly inverted position due to some bad DWC judgement. Either way, it won't be pretty.
    MTB Tandems Inc.
    678-445-0711
    www.MTBTandems.com

  6. #31
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    North WESTERN New Jersey ...not Eastern ...duh

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Breeze - Screamcycle
    Here is our two year old Screamcycle and it's well used skid plate that I made for it when as soon as I got the bike to keep the aluminum boom tube from becoming scraped up & flattened since we live in a rocky area in North WESTERN New Jersey ....NOT Eastern NJ.

    Happy Trails,
    Larry & Brenda ( TeamBreeze )
    DUH....TYPO .....We live in North WESTERN New Jersey!!!
    Larry & Brenda
    (Team Breeze)

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK
    Very Nice.

    What race, Leadville?

    PK
    Yes - Leadville.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Breeze - Screamcycle
    DUH....TYPO .....We live in North WESTERN New Jersey!!!
    Is this the same as New York?

    PK

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK
    When we rode with Larry and Brenda at AORTA 2010, they pounded over a logover. The glideplate made a funky slapping sound. Then we watched it appeared the bike accelerated as it slid on the plastic. Brenda got popped up in the air a bit as the rear tire contacted the logover.

    Some where this is on video from our helmetcam. It was crazy to witness, and then see again on video.

    PK
    If you ever find the time to find this clip and send it to us or let us know when you can post it to your vimeo account online we would sooooooooooo appreciate it.
    Larry & Brenda
    (Team Breeze)

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trails4Two
    Do you have a custom headtube angle? It looks more slack than others.
    Sorry T42 I was away on a mtb vacation, just saw this q.

    Not intentionally, I do run the Marz at the Stock 130mm, so that may be part of it, but with a 72" wheelbase I think it only changes the headangle by 1/2 degree.

    I will measure it tonight and let you know what it is.

    -A
    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

  11. #36
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    Team Breeze - Screamcycle,

    Where in NW NJ do you live? I'm in Chester and ride the Allamuchy area nearly every weekend. We have an ~2000 EDCM that has gotten less use with little kids at home. I'm actually going to get it out this Saturday (likely, not definite) this weekend when we ride with some friends on single bikes at either Stephen's or Deer Park.
    Barry

  12. #37
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    Howdy Neighbor !

    Quote Originally Posted by CrashCanipe
    Team Breeze - Screamcycle,

    Where in NW NJ do you live? I'm in Chester and ride the Allamuchy area nearly every weekend. We have an ~2000 EDCM that has gotten less use with little kids at home. I'm actually going to get it out this Saturday (likely, not definite) this weekend when we ride with some friends on single bikes at either Stephen's or Deer Park.
    Barry
    Hi Barry & wife!
    We live in the next town....Succasunna....we'll definitely have to get together.....and there are more of us (off road tandems) local within the area!
    Larry & Brenda
    Larry & Brenda
    (Team Breeze)

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Breeze - Screamcycle
    Hi Barry & wife!
    We live in the next town....Succasunna....we'll definitely have to get together.....and there are more of us (off road tandems) local within the area!
    Larry & Brenda
    That's terrific. NJ is a great place for a tandem (or any bike). Great variety of terrain - 6 Mile, Chimney Rock, Lewis Morris, Allamuchy, Mahlon, etc. Have never made it to Kittantiny (sp?). Getting together with other tandems would be incentive for us to get the tandem out more often. I will PM you my contact info. Oh, and I would love the see the Fandango 29er in action. Our ECDM is not a perfect size (a little too big) so I've considered making a change. Plus, all my single bikes now are 29ers.
    Barry

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrashCanipe
    That's terrific. NJ is a great place for a tandem (or any bike). Great variety of terrain - 6 Mile, Chimney Rock, Lewis Morris, Allamuchy, Mahlon, etc. Have never made it to Kittantiny (sp?). Getting together with other tandems would be incentive for us to get the tandem out more often. I will PM you my contact info. Oh, and I would love the see the Fandango 29er in action. Our ECDM is not a perfect size (a little too big) so I've considered making a change. Plus, all my single bikes now are 29ers.
    Barry
    We did try to reply to your e-mail to us at our private e-mail address and it came back as delivery failed.
    So please e-mail us privately again...we shoudl be heading to Stephens this Sunday at 10am with friends.
    Larry & Brenda
    (Team Breeze)

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciclistagonzo
    Sorry T42 I was away on a mtb vacation, just saw this q.

    Not intentionally, I do run the Marz at the Stock 130mm, so that may be part of it, but with a 72" wheelbase I think it only changes the headangle by 1/2 degree.

    I will measure it tonight and let you know what it is.

    -A
    I'm getting 71.75 Degrees Head tube angle. Only 0.25 off of stock. I bet its mostly an optical illusion because of the sloping top tube.

    -Aaron
    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

  16. #41
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    Thanks for checking. I was just curious. Hopefully my stokers broken finger will heal up soon so we can get out for some kind of ride. Our poor bike has been sitting for almost three weeks during prime season!

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trails4Two
    Hopefully my stokers broken finger will heal up soon so we can get out for some kind of ride. Our poor bike has been sitting for almost three weeks during prime season!
    Sorry for the lack of sympathy but I can hear my mother saying "If the bone isn't poking through your skin, tape a popsicle stick on it and go!"

    Yes, she would say that. Old school.

    -F

    PS - sorry to go so OT

  18. #43
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    No sympathy needed. She broke it riding singletrack here in Junction and two days later was biking in Crested Butte for 5 days - this might be why it still hurts a bit...

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trails4Two
    Here's one shot from our vacation in Crested Butte this month. We did some other great trails, but nobody was there to catch a pic. This is at the bottom of an fairly easy family ride. My son (4.5yrs) is just starting to go on trails.
    Somehow I overlooked this photo.

    Very cool to get the entire family involved.

    PK

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trails4Two
    Here's one shot from our vacation in Crested Butte this month. We did some other great trails, but nobody was there to catch a pic. This is at the bottom of an fairly easy family ride. My son (4.5yrs) is just starting to go on trails.
    How hard is it for the captain to keep everyone upright? I'm looking to do that on gentle trails and toe-paths. Do you just bomb through it on a big bike and pray he holds on in the way back?
    I just took my son out this weekend for 6.5mi on my single plus his trail-a-bike. If you look back at your picture, the last 15ft you just cleared, that was what 75% of our ride was like. Picking and choosing the best line, trying to lessen the impact on him, knowing I couldn't just hop an obstacle. Roots, rocks, off camber 12" wide single track.......my upper body was put through the wringer. Felt like I would have if I did 3-4x the mileage alone.

  21. #46
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    C'mon Tandemgeek, CrashCanipe, and others, share a photo and some build specs.

    It may help others considering similar stuff hear how well it works, or maybe doesn't.

    I know I'd like to see the suspension geometry curve on Tandemgeeks earlier ECDM. Kind of curious if rate is rising 100% or if it is falling rate deep in the stroke. Could be a good test to try a more modern rear damper.

    PK

  22. #47
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    I will try to get some pictures this weekend.

    Our EDCM is about 12 years old so it is not as shiny as some of the ones posted on here. It has a 2001 Zoke DJ1 fork I bought from Alex and a rare set of Kooka cranks. It needs to have the rear shock replaced and could use a stiffer front fork. The Team Breeze crew got to hear the squeaks of the rear shock our whole ride last weekend.

  23. #48
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    What rear damper? Fox ALPs series?

    Good rear damper in many ways. Has many design features that make it superior to current stuff.

    PK

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK
    C'mon Tandemgeek, CrashCanipe, and others, share a photo and some build specs.

    It may help others considering similar stuff hear how well it works, or maybe doesn't.

    I know I'd like to see the suspension geometry curve on Tandemgeeks earlier ECDM. Kind of curious if rate is rising 100% or if it is falling rate deep in the stroke. Could be a good test to try a more modern rear damper.

    PK
    PK, you're going to make my Ventanaphile Show!.

    All Ventana's use the same linkage design, so in that respects, I know 'em very well. Original suspension Ventana's even the Marble Peak style (shock attached to Top tube) were "linear rate" that is, they were rising rate first 1/2 of travel and then falling rate second half. Hence why they were plush but didn't bottom out hard, (the falling rate second half counters the air shocks inheret rising rate spring curve).

    Right about 2005, modern dampers with the platform dampers caused V to adjust the kinetics, they switched to 2/3 rising 1/3 falling rate (on average) the longer rising rate was used to drive the shocks more and get more active travel out of the mid stroke of the shocks.
    I don't think this applies to the tandems as they have maintiained the 2" stroke shocks, but.
    In 2008, Ventana adjusted the rockers again to start using longer stroke shocks. Those are still 2/3 rising, 1/3 falling, but with more stroke to work with the rockers aren't as aggresively driving the shock, netting a smoother ride.

    I'm eager to get my kids more accustomed to offroading since I have the old 6" (150mm) rockers from my Bruja collecting dust and I may just swap out the 4" rockers to those and balance out my travel with the front. (130mm).

    OLE!
    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciclistagonzo
    PK, you're going to make my Ventanaphile Show!.

    All Ventana's use the same linkage design, so in that respects, I know 'em very well. Original suspension Ventana's even the Marble Peak style (shock attached to Top tube) were "linear rate" that is, they were rising rate first 1/2 of travel and then falling rate second half. Hence why they were plush but didn't bottom out hard, (the falling rate second half counters the air shocks inheret rising rate spring curve).

    Right about 2005, modern dampers with the platform dampers caused V to adjust the kinetics, they switched to 2/3 rising 1/3 falling rate (on average) the longer rising rate was used to drive the shocks more and get more active travel out of the mid stroke of the shocks.
    I don't think this applies to the tandems as they have maintiained the 2" stroke shocks, but.
    In 2008, Ventana adjusted the rockers again to start using longer stroke shocks. Those are still 2/3 rising, 1/3 falling, but with more stroke to work with the rockers aren't as aggresively driving the shock, netting a smoother ride.

    I'm eager to get my kids more accustomed to offroading since I have the old 6" (150mm) rockers from my Bruja collecting dust and I may just swap out the 4" rockers to those and balance out my travel with the front. (130mm).

    OLE!
    Sherwood and I discussed a bit about the design and percentage of riding vs falling rate along the suspension plot. He also brought in the topic of anti-squat, something most suspension designers overlook to often. As a suspension geek myself, it was a fun discussion. One of the reasons for it was initially we were considering having a frame built for us. I had planned to use a Cane Creek / Ohlins TTx coil over and wanted a greater percentage of the movement rising rate.

    As it turned out, this ECDM we bought is working very well for us. I am not a fan of lockout systems on a suspension bike. The only time we would ever engage one is on very smooth terrain.

    Our RP3 that the bike came with was way off on the rebound damping rate. I revalved the shim stack and lucked out to get the damping good with the clicker set midway on the first attempt. We put some miles on it and found it decent. Prior to revalving it further, I moved forward and bought the DHX5.0. Other than the air spring volume being to large, it has been pretty good as delivered. Currently the rear is far superior to the front ATC fork.

    I don't know how I'll pull this off money wise, but the wife said yes we need a different fork since having the front get sketchy bothers her. We haven't gone down yet from it sliding the front tire, but a few times she asked "didn't you feel the front tire steeping out?". The casual reply was well yeah, did you?

    The fork ordered is a Fox40RC2 Kashima. I'm expecting I'll need to revalve both the fork and DHX a couple of times before it's best for us. Thought the fork may arrive today, then I need to clip the travel. Guessing I'll settle on about 115/120 mm. Get it on and broken in. Then start playing with shim stacks. With luck, and our current schedule, this will be late October to see happen.

    Like the Fandango topic, I thought this might be a spot where teams might let others see their rides AND share setup details, such as team weights, clicker settings, air pressures both front and rear, sag amounts if ever measured, but most importantly what each setup does well and what needs to be better. As I've mentioned before, this is not a topic of mine is better than yours, rather one of you have a pretty cool setup tell us more.

    As for the ECDMs with the early style frames and ALPs dampers, if you need info, just ask, I've rebuilt a lot of them over the last 15 years.

    Also, has anyone tried a PUSH big hit bottoming cushion on their ECDM?

    PK

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