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Thread: The ECDM thread

  1. #351
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    Summer Maintenance

    Did some additional maintenance work on the ECdM yesterday, prompted by a "strange noise" issue on our Wednesday afternoon ride. Only happened during pedaling so I could rule out the hub (thank goodness!). Finished our ride and only cut it a bit short, but got the bike back home and on the stand. Took the stoker cranks off and gave the bottom bracket a twist. Hmm, less noisy than when we were riding, but similar sound/feel. Replaced the BB with another - we're on ISIS cranks, and since SKF doesn't make their nice ISIS BB any more, I'm stuck with Truvativ Gigipipe DH parts. This last one went 2-3 years.

    While I was at it, I changed out the FD and cable/housing. I hadn't changed the front cable/housing since I put the bike together in 2/2011, so it was time. Hate the SRAM trigger shifters for changing cables, since you have to pop the whole thing apart (and I have to move my brake levers to get to the SRAM shifter bolts). FD came out because it was original to our original bike in 2007, and I had a spare Deore I bought for $6 a couple years ago.

    New sync chain (measured the old one at 1/8" and I'm trying to save the sync rings, so $13 in new chains isn't a big price to pay). Wish I would have measured the chain before I cleaned and lubed it earlier this week.

    And a new captain's seat, since my Fizik has started to crack.

    All of which gave me an excuse to order more parts to keep stock up for the next failure!

  2. #352
    PMK
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    Quote Originally Posted by reamer41 View Post
    What is happening here? How does a poor setup at the rear effect the fork so much? I've experienced it, and the opposite -- a poorly performing fork, but do t understand the interrelationship. ???
    The technical word is called balance. Balance i spring rate, balance of sag front to rear which is not the same at both ends in many cases, balance of the midstroke spring rate, balance of the low speed compression and high speed compression, proper suspension design for the frames front geometry, balance of grip.

    Capped off by not just one rider but two.

    In simplest terms, un balance causes a forward to aft pitching which creates havoc for the other end suspension to deal with.

    PK

    Some items we have no control over
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  3. #353
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    The ECDM thread

    [QUOTE=PMK;10501974.

    In simplest terms, un balance causes a forward to aft pitching which creates havoc for the other end suspension to deal with.

    PK

    Some items we have no control over[/QUOTE]

    That makes sense, thanks.
    --Reamer

    SC Tallboy LTc
    Ventana ECDM 26
    ventana el Ciclon
    Litespeed Classic
    Seven Ti Axion Tandem
    1989 Stumpjumper

  4. #354
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    What size ISIS BB do you need? I have two darn near new SKF BB's in 118 that I will let go cheap. I would rather see them in use than collecting dust in my garage.

    I had to go to 113 for proper chain line on my Ellsworth so the 118's are extra.

  5. #355
    PMK
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    We run modified Truvative BB's, same as yours on the Co-Motion. If you don't convert to the SKS, send a PM and I'll explain the mods.

    PK
    Reps! We don't need no stickin' reps!

  6. #356
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    Hey Stevoo, thanks for the offer! ECdMs take 113, though.

    PMing Paul.

  7. #357
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    You can still get the SKF bottom brackets at Compass Bicycles. I believe that is were I got my most recent ones. Just found them again on the web. They are still offered.
    At $150 each they are not cheap but they have proven to last a long time.

  8. #358
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    Finally back in the tandem saddle. My wife had never ridden one before and this was a roll of the dice but after two rides in the dirt it is a total hit. She was never really comfortable riding off-road before but now her quote is, "this is great - I don't have to worry about anything."

    Happy stoker. The FS was the right choice - this thing is a pleasure to ride. Only thing it can't really do is quick changes of direction at-speed. But not sure any tandem does that especially well. Thanks to Alex for the great build.


  9. #359
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    Mountain Bikings best kept secret...tandeming off-road.

    PK
    Reps! We don't need no stickin' reps!

  10. #360
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    Re: The ECDM thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ybtodd View Post
    Finally back in the tandem saddle. My wife had never ridden one before and this was a roll of the dice but after two rides in the dirt it is a total hit. She was never really comfortable riding off-road before but now her quote is, "this is great - I don't have to worry about anything."

    Happy stoker. The FS was the right choice - this thing is a pleasure to ride. Only thing it can't really do is quick changes of direction at-speed. But not sure any tandem does that especially well. Thanks to Alex for the great build.

    Agree with PMK. We rode in miserable weather today on forest service roads just to get out in our tandem.

    Congrats...and, man is that orange sharp!

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

  11. #361
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    Thanks - the input from everyone here was quite useful. We got her proper shoes and pedals this afternoon which has opened her eyes (she never ran clipless before). We rode down to the local coffee place as we met 6 years ago at a coffee place and almost got hit twice. Reminded me why I hate riding on pavement these days.

    I'm still dialing in position. I think I need another cm of stem length and want to go to a layback post so I can get behind the pedals a bit more. The other thing I need to add are some bar ends as I hate riding without them. I think I'm going to try the Ergon ones for grip shift.

    Towards the end of the ride back home I was coming down a steep pavement hill and the rear brake started chattering (Magura). I'm still a disc newbie - they still bedding in or is the noise something I need to sort out? I'll see if it comes back tomorrow.
    Last edited by ybtodd; 07-06-2013 at 08:50 PM.

  12. #362
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    The ECDM thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mhopton View Post
    Congrats...and, man is that orange sharp!
    That orange IS sharp!
    (Same as mine.)
    Those 29" wheel are sharp too. I've got a 26er that otherwise looks about the same. Since I got a 29er solo bike I've been jonesing for a 29er tandem.

    Have a great time on it!
    --Reamer

    SC Tallboy LTc
    Ventana ECDM 26
    ventana el Ciclon
    Litespeed Classic
    Seven Ti Axion Tandem
    1989 Stumpjumper

  13. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by ybtodd View Post
    the rear brake started chattering (Magura). I'm still a disc newbie - they still bedding in or is the noise something I need to sort out? I'll see if it comes back tomorrow.
    There are some common issues with brakes, specifically the rear brakes, on ECdMs. We also used to have a at-times violent rear brake vibration, but all I needed to do was switch pad compounds from sintered to organic. Have run quite a few different brands of pads in the back since with no real return of the issue.

    There are the usual tips to try - make sure the caliper is aligned, the disc and pads are free of contaminates, etc. Alex may also have some tips, if he's sending a lot of bikes out with the same brakes.

    Our vibration/noise was only after the brake was hot, but it was bad enough we couldn't use the rear brake until it cooled, problematic for obvious reasons. Other's have tried a change of pad and still had the issue, but it's where I'd start since I had success.

    Where are you guys based?

  14. #364
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    SoCal. It gets warm here and I was doing some hard stops on a downhill to try and finish off bedding. Probably warmed it up a bit. I'll just do typical riding from now on and see it if pops up again. If so I'll try the pad swap.

  15. #365
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    We have a SoCal Teams thread going on. You should post up a ride offer, or a region you're willing to travel for rides and other teams will follow. We're in Thousand Oaks area, so western Santa Monica Mountains.

  16. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okayfine View Post
    Did some additional maintenance work on the ECdM yesterday, prompted by a "strange noise" issue on our Wednesday afternoon ride. Only happened during pedaling so I could rule out the hub (thank goodness!).
    Or could I? Turns out the noise that prompted the stocker BB R&R WAS actually coming from the CK rear hub after all. I "fixed" it when I took things apart to look, but it would come back during the next ride. After a bit more troubleshooting I noticed the large drive-side bearing would slip in and out of the hub, when it should be an interference fit. I still don't understand how that could result in the noise we got, but in talking with Chris King, they were familiar with the issue.

    They say high spoke tension can pull the hub shell slightly, embiggening the tolerance for the DS bearing. Their fix is to send the wheel up to them and they'll fit a larger DS bearing. We got the wheel back in a little over a week and CK even upgraded the bearing adjuster cup to their new design with a hole for a 2.5mm Allen wrench to provide leverage for adjustment. Nice!

    They also included a caution to have the spoke tension dialed down to their spec range. I took the wheel in to the local shop to have them check and adjust it...but the spoke tension was already within the range CK specifies, albeit at the very top of the range. So now I'm confused as to the original cause of the problem. We have a history with rear hubs on this bike, but the CK hub was supposed to take care of those issues. Two years left on the five year warranty...

  17. #367
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    The ECDM thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Okayfine View Post
    Or could I? Turns out the noise that prompted the stocker BB R&R WAS actually coming from the CK rear hub after all. I "fixed" it when I took things apart to look, but it would come back during the next ride. After a bit more troubleshooting I noticed the large drive-side bearing would slip in and out of the hub, when it should be an interference fit. I still don't understand how that could result in the noise we got, but in talking with Chris King, they were familiar with the issue.

    They say high spoke tension can pull the hub shell slightly, embiggening the tolerance for the DS bearing. Their fix is to send the wheel up to them and they'll fit a larger DS bearing. We got the wheel back in a little over a week and CK even upgraded the bearing adjuster cup to their new design with a hole for a 2.5mm Allen wrench to provide leverage for adjustment. Nice!

    They also included a caution to have the spoke tension dialed down to their spec range. I took the wheel in to the local shop to have them check and adjust it...but the spoke tension was already within the range CK specifies, albeit at the very top of the range. So now I'm confused as to the original cause of the problem. We have a history with rear hubs on this bike, but the CK hub was supposed to take care of those issues. Two years left on the five year warranty...
    Wow, that's an interesting one. I've had only great luck with CK products. Sorry to hear of your issue. At least they gave you a minor upgrade.

    I've also gotten warranty service on a headset that was well outside the warranty. They stand behind their products.
    --Reamer

    SC Tallboy LTc
    Ventana ECDM 26
    ventana el Ciclon
    Litespeed Classic
    Seven Ti Axion Tandem
    1989 Stumpjumper

  18. #368
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    They absolutely do stand behind their products. I'd have just liked a little more information about the whole thing so I can prevent a repeat.

  19. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okayfine View Post
    Or could I? Turns out the noise that prompted the stocker BB R&R WAS actually coming from the CK rear hub after all. I "fixed" it when I took things apart to look, but it would come back during the next ride. After a bit more troubleshooting I noticed the large drive-side bearing would slip in and out of the hub, when it should be an interference fit. I still don't understand how that could result in the noise we got, but in talking with Chris King, they were familiar with the issue.

    They say high spoke tension can pull the hub shell slightly, embiggening the tolerance for the DS bearing. Their fix is to send the wheel up to them and they'll fit a larger DS bearing. We got the wheel back in a little over a week and CK even upgraded the bearing adjuster cup to their new design with a hole for a 2.5mm Allen wrench to provide leverage for adjustment. Nice!

    They also included a caution to have the spoke tension dialed down to their spec range. I took the wheel in to the local shop to have them check and adjust it...but the spoke tension was already within the range CK specifies, albeit at the very top of the range. So now I'm confused as to the original cause of the problem. We have a history with rear hubs on this bike, but the CK hub was supposed to take care of those issues. Two years left on the five year warranty...
    I have seen several CK hubs get slop in the bearings after being ridden some, including the last set I built for my commuter bike. That set had sideways slop and strange noises within 30 miles. Sometimes it's quite early in the life of the wheels, and sometimes later. However, the bearing preload collar is there for just that reason. I don't know that it's necessarily a failure as much as a maintenance/adjustment thing with the hubs. After all, as things wear, they will get slack.
    As far as failures, none on CK so far, even after putting them on tandems for 12+ years, so still the best out there, IMO. And I'd be surprised if you needed your warranty on these hubs.
    MTB Tandems Inc.
    678-445-0711
    www.MTBTandems.com

  20. #370
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    I didn't have slop in the bearing, I had the entire large drive-side bearing freely slide in and out of the hub bore. As in, take off the non-drive-side bearing adjuster cone and the entire guts would slide right out the drive side (cassette, drive shell, drive rings, spring). This was not a bearing adjustment issue - I had the adjuster as tight as was prudent and within 5 miles I was getting the noise again.

    I have the CK special tool to pull the entire hub apart, and I regularly check the bearing adjustment. I've already used the warranty, and since tension was in spec and I've changed nothing, I expect I may have to use it again down the road.

  21. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okayfine View Post
    I expect I may have to use it again down the road.
    Guess what? The noise is back. I asked my stoker, with hope, if it was perhaps the tire rubbing or something. "No, it's the same noise."

  22. #372
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    My longtime friend and local bike shop owner decided it would be nice for him and his wife to give tandems a try. They first picked up a used Burley and shortly after gave Ventana a call and built up this ECDM 29.

    Pretty unique build as is. He is giving the road cranks a try, along with carbon rims and tubliss setup. The remainder is XX, King hubs and Avid hydraulic brakes.

    PK
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The ECDM thread-tommy-marthas-ventana.jpg  

    Reps! We don't need no stickin' reps!

  23. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    My longtime friend and local bike shop owner decided it would be nice for him and his wife to give tandems a try. They first picked up a used Burley and shortly after gave Ventana a call and built up this ECDM 29.

    Pretty unique build as is. He is giving the road cranks a try, along with carbon rims and tubliss setup. The remainder is XX, King hubs and Avid hydraulic brakes.

    PK
    Nice looking bike there!!!

  24. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    My longtime friend and local bike shop owner decided it would be nice for him and his wife to give tandems a try. They first picked up a used Burley and shortly after gave Ventana a call and built up this ECDM 29.

    Pretty unique build as is. He is giving the road cranks a try, along with carbon rims and tubliss setup. The remainder is XX, King hubs and Avid hydraulic brakes.

    PK
    Love the color!!!
    E&P
    tSRt

  25. #375
    PMK
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    Ed, understandably, it is obvious you like the color...

    They got in the first "shakedown" ride this past weekend. Nothing technical, simply the Lake O ride. A two day event, riding around Lake Okeechobee with as much as possible on the levee.

    Distance was about 122 miles for both days. Saturday started just right, but with a moderate head wind. The mid portion of the ride, saw rain and cooler temps, with continued head wind. Sunday woke to bright clear skies, wind at our backs. This was along the lakes western portion headed North. The west side of the lake is the less improved section with many miles of mowed grass access road for the vehicles.

    Not a bad first ride for their new machine. Within the first 20 miles, they had made most of the changes they wanted, between seat, bars and pressure settings.

    Without bike fanfare or any green at all...our old school 26 ECDM made a lap of Lake O.

    PK
    Reps! We don't need no stickin' reps!

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