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Thread: The ECDM thread

  1. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhopton View Post
    Tell us how you spec'd out your build.
    Pretty much the straight "Premium build kit" that Alex has. Much as I love Chris King stuff the check I'm writing will be big enough as it is. I've had good luck with the X7/X9 stuff and figure the Hope/Magura should be good enough for wheels and brakes.

    I finally got the new 29'er FS single on dirt today and have to say that I'm liking it a lot - especially my back. My wife was on her bike she's looking forward to the prospect of being on the back of the tandem, especially not having to worry about bike control on descents (not her strong point).

  2. #327
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    Compatability Issues of shadow derailleur on older ECDM with rear-facing dropouts

    I tried installing an SLX shadow derailleur on my 2001 ECDM with rear-facing dropouts. The problem is there is a humpback near the mounting bolt that interferes with rear wheel removal. See the attached picture. I am tempted to grind the humpback down but it might serve an important function. Any opinions about what to do? I posted this question in the tandem forum but this ECDM thread seems more appropriate.

    Name:  SLX 9 speed derailleur.JPG
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    Well I went ahead and ground down some of the hump and am now able to take the wheel on and off so the problem is solved. I didn't have to take too much off so I'm pretty sure I have not compromised the strength. I hope this is useful to others.

    The ECDM thread-shadow-derailleur-mod-2.jpg

    The ECDM thread-shadow-derialleur-mod.jpg
    Last edited by abikerider; 06-04-2013 at 03:29 PM.

  3. #328
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    We rode in Fruita, Rustler Loop, and tried a camera mounted to the stoker bar. The clip is kind of long at 9:34 and it just raw video uploaded with kinda low res. Anyway we are on our ECDM 29er having a good time. https://vimeo.com/67481651
    2 wheels == True

  4. #329
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    Hope you had a good time. We ride that area quite a bit on tandem, sometimes as a couple, sometimes with my 7-year-old stoker. Good fun!

  5. #330
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    The ECDM thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ybtodd View Post
    Well after discussion with Alex and doing some measurements on my existing rides looks like the winning combination will be 19/16 with 29" wheels. I'm a bit in-between the 19 and 21 I think, but better to err on having more stand over and I can always do a bit of layback on the seat post and a longer stem if I want a bit more room. Thanks for all the input here - always hard to buy without riding but it should be in the ballpark.
    I am likely mistaken, but I believe Sherwood will build a semi-custom 19" with a top tube from a 21."

    Should get you the standover you want with the length you need.

    On the other hand maybe that was only on the 26" wheels.
    --Reamer

    SC Tallboy LTc
    Ventana ECDM 26
    ventana el Ciclon
    Litespeed Classic
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    1989 Stumpjumper

  6. #331
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    Thanks for posting! I have yet to get a decent pov video on the tandem. I just don't have the patience to mess around with getting the camera set up right and editing the video.

    Eric, can you explain the shifting configuration on your ECDM? I was not sure what I was looking at in th video.

  7. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by ds2199 View Post
    Thanks for posting! I have yet to get a decent pov video on the tandem. I just don't have the patience to mess around with getting the camera set up right and editing the video.

    Eric, can you explain the shifting configuration on your ECDM? I was not sure what I was looking at in th video.
    I got the impression he was locking and unlocking suspension.

    PK
    Reps! We don't need no stickin' reps!

  8. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebnelson View Post
    We rode in Fruita, Rustler Loop, and tried a camera mounted to the stoker bar. The clip is kind of long at 9:34 and it just raw video uploaded with kinda low res. Anyway we are on our ECDM 29er having a good time. https://vimeo.com/67481651


    What a contrast of trail compared to an East Coast trail.

    PK
    Reps! We don't need no stickin' reps!

  9. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by ds2199 View Post
    Thanks for posting! I have yet to get a decent pov video on the tandem. I just don't have the patience to mess around with getting the camera set up right and editing the video.

    Eric, can you explain the shifting configuration on your ECDM? I was not sure what I was looking at in th video.
    We blew it today the camera battery died before the Ambram's Ridge descent in Eagle.

    The funny levers on the top of the bar you are watching me play with are the CTD (climb, trail, descend) lever for the Fox fork and shock. Yes, I do adjust them often! The fork feels really soft with any pedal effort in trail or descend, but good for climbing seated on the climb mode. It still bobs a lot standing in climb mode. I like the camera angle to watch the fork movement. Its amazing how much fork movement there is on rocky trails.

    Our shifting is still 3x10 XTR. 24x34 is our easy gear (don't tell Traci they make a 36!) ;-) One of these days I'd like to try a XX1 setup or similar.

    Eric
    2 wheels == True

  10. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebnelson View Post
    ....

    Our shifting is still 3x10 XTR. 24x34 is our easy gear (don't tell Traci they make a 36!) ;-) One of these days I'd like to try a XX1 setup or similar.

    Eric
    Wow! You guys are strong!! I won't tell Traci...

    I am a bit ashamed to say that we have 22-36 for our low gear on the 29" wheels. And we use that low gear a lot!

  11. #336
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    We suffered climbing up a very steep, and loose, forest road today. Traci had been on an anti climbing kick after straining herself on the road tandem. See seems better now. I still haven't told her we are racing Mt Evans!
    2 wheels == True

  12. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by ds2199 View Post
    Wow! You guys are strong!! I won't tell Traci...

    I am a bit ashamed to say that we have 22-36 for our low gear on the 29" wheels. And we use that low gear a lot!
    You have the right gearing for Little Frenchy next month.
    2 wheels == True

  13. #338
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    Eric, any chance of some photos of the camera mounting on the ECDM?

    I did some footage of a road tandem event last fall with a similar mount location.

    I am really fearful to rip off the camera on our trails with all the trees but your vantage point off-road is pretty nice.

    PK
    Reps! We don't need no stickin' reps!

  14. #339
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    I used a Contour camera with the strap on mount on the outside of the stoker bull horn bar. Yes, there is a risk of tearing off the camera. We rode a very narrow trail in Carbondale and the camera was OK. I brushed it on small branches a couple of times but no hard hits yet. A crash would be bad for the camera and riders!
    2 wheels == True

  15. #340
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    I moved the camera to the drive side of the bike so I'm less likely to bump it getting off/on the bike. The camera view is cool since the trail and front of the bike are in view at the same time and this is much more interesting than the helmet cam view that is often posted.
    2 wheels == True

  16. #341
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    The ECDM 29 in Carbondale on the Porcupine trail. I uploaded in HD this time https://vimeo.com/67681659 The camera is still on the left side of the bike. I will put the video up in three sections. As we get lower down the trail it gets narrower. The camera hits a couple of twigs but nothing to knock the view angle or do any damage to the camera.
    2 wheels == True

  17. #342
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    I am considering to change our RS Pike 454 140mm (a-c 515mm) to RS Lyrik 2-Step air 160mm (a-c 545mm). What I understand, Lyrik is little bit stiffer than Pike. There is 30mm difference in axle to crown measurements. I think it would be game changer on solo bikes, but how about on ECDM? Does it change riding geometry radically or is the change more subtle? ECDM frames are for 140mm forks, but has anyone tried to use 160 or longer forks?

  18. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaitettaVille View Post
    I am considering to change our RS Pike 454 140mm (a-c 515mm) to RS Lyrik 2-Step air 160mm (a-c 545mm). What I understand, Lyrik is little bit stiffer than Pike. There is 30mm difference in axle to crown measurements. I think it would be game changer on solo bikes, but how about on ECDM? Does it change riding geometry radically or is the change more subtle? ECDM frames are for 140mm forks, but has anyone tried to use 160 or longer forks?
    I think you are off by about 20mm on the designed travel the ECDM's are made for currently and about 40mm off for older gen models. I believe (Alex a litte help?) up until 2012, ECDM's were designed for 100mm travel so about 470mm A to C, I know my 2010 is. The frame can handle 160mm frames no problem, I believe Trails4two runs a 66. and PMK is running a modded Fox 40 so that's not too big an issue, but I wanted to make sure you were aware that on older frames it would change the geometry more than current model. Website says 493mm A to C so looks like he designed the geo for 120mm forks. Having said that, how much will it change the GEO? Not a ton, since the wheelbase is 72" plus vs 42" ish for a single bike the old addage 20mm=one degree is more like 35= 1 degree on Tandems. I think the most significant change will be at the BB, my quick geometry says the Captains BB will rise up about 2/3 of what the A to C difference is. (So will standover). BTW, I own a Pike 454 and a Lyrik, both are good forks, and the Lyrik with 35mm is quite a bit stiffer than the Pike. Also, if you have a solo air Lyrik, you can add the spacers to the Air spring side and lower the travel on the Lyrik. (Which stiffens it up more as it will have more Stanchion overlap.)
    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

  19. #344
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    We run a 180mm fork. Not because we need that much travel, but because I wanted a stiffer fork than our old 66SL and the current forks with bigger stantion diameters have more travel. We're a 360lb team, plus gear. We've also never had the bike with a 100mm fork, so can't really comment on the changes over what it was designed for.

    I'd be surprised if you really noticed an additional 20mm on a tandem, though.

  20. #345
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    Thanks ciclistagonzo and Okayfine.

    I think we are goin going to get Lyrik 2-step 160mm and try it for a few rides. It's a bargain, so it would be shame to let it slip through our hands. If it doesn't fit our riding style, we change Pike 454 back or convert it to coil u-turn (120-160mm).

    Fortunately we have potential buyers for both forks already, so economic damage won't be huge.

    I am very aware of my single bikes geometry and I had somekind of mtb-rage situation ( )when I replaced 100mm for 120mm on my 29er. It didn't climb at all. Front wheel was all over the trail. On ECDM I am worried about our ability to negotiate tighter sections of our favorite trails. Our favorite trails are very narrow (trees and boulders) with tight corners.

  21. #346
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    For comparison, our frame is a 2006 with a modified Fox40 Kashima.

    Fork / wheel travel is 145mm.

    Axle to crown measured quickly with a tape measure and wheel installed is 508mm.

    Geometry numbers do matter, but other factors play in also. Obviously fork sag is important, spring rate is hugely important, rear sag seems more critical than front sag, and finally, is there enough front grip to plain old fashioned make the bike turn.

    It is all the dynamics compiled together, a opposed to published reference data. That is basically a good guideline or starting point. Consider a proper length fork with a light spring, geometry goes wrong, a long fork with a firm spring can go wrong, a soft squishy rear setup may wallow and bring the best fork to it's knees. There is more to a good setup, but the key is finding a balance of travel needed, spring rate, mid stroke support, no mechanical binding, minimal flex and proper rear setup, coupled to the ground with a good tire setup.

    Also, if you run a longer travel fork. They can tend to wallow and become vague, not always, but it can happen especially in soft terrain.

    The best tandem fork is waiting to be built.

    PK
    Reps! We don't need no stickin' reps!

  22. #347
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    The ECDM thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    For comparison, our frame is a 2006 with a modified Fox40 Kashima.

    Fork / wheel travel is 145mm.

    .....
    The best tandem fork is waiting to be built.

    PK
    Paul,

    Do you know if there are fox 40s that would not work for the ecdm? By that I mean not easily shortened and modded for use on the Ventana?

    I've been watching eBay, and thinking a used 40, then sent for overhaul, shortening and re-valving, if needed. I've used Push before. But are there shops you would recommend to do the needed work on a fox 40?

    New prices are stratospheric, but some of the used Foxes are doable.

    Thanks,
    Charlie
    --Reamer

    SC Tallboy LTc
    Ventana ECDM 26
    ventana el Ciclon
    Litespeed Classic
    Seven Ti Axion Tandem
    1989 Stumpjumper

  23. #348
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    The ECDM thread

    Dupe deleted
    --Reamer

    SC Tallboy LTc
    Ventana ECDM 26
    ventana el Ciclon
    Litespeed Classic
    Seven Ti Axion Tandem
    1989 Stumpjumper

  24. #349
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    The ECDM thread

    Delete dupe
    --Reamer

    SC Tallboy LTc
    Ventana ECDM 26
    ventana el Ciclon
    Litespeed Classic
    Seven Ti Axion Tandem
    1989 Stumpjumper

  25. #350
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    The ECDM thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    ....

    a long fork with a firm spring can go wrong, a soft squishy rear setup may wallow and bring the best fork to it's knees. There is more to a good setup, ...

    PK
    What is happening here? How does a poor setup at the rear effect the fork so much? I've experienced it, and the opposite -- a poorly performing fork, but do t understand the interrelationship. ???
    --Reamer

    SC Tallboy LTc
    Ventana ECDM 26
    ventana el Ciclon
    Litespeed Classic
    Seven Ti Axion Tandem
    1989 Stumpjumper

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