Results 1 to 88 of 88

Thread: why surly?

  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    61

    why surly?

    whats the fascination with surly? i see a ton of people worshiping them.. why are they so desirable?

    i am really asking, not trying to start a war..

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    4,804
    Surly you can't be serious?


  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    60
    On the one hand, they're inexpensive, versatile, and durable.

    On the other hand, they're funky, innovative, and just plain fun.

    I think those qualities speak to a lot of people, myself included.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,663
    Thoroughly though out designs that are versatile and affordable. Being affordable allows me the luxury of owning multiple bikes designed for different purposes.

  5. #5
    undercover brother
    Reputation: tangaroo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    881
    I'm a recent Pug owner and the bike is a blast. Surly doesn't make super bikes, but they make affordable, bombproof, fun bikes. I have not been able to contain my excitement since I got my Pug.

    No suspension = reliability, challenge, and simplicity.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sasquatch rides a SS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    4,559
    Tangaroo said it...they make fun bikes. I've never owned a bike that I've had as much fun riding as my 1x1. I'm planning on boosting my amount of Surly's by possibly 2 bikes this year If you want something affordable, versatile and bombproof and aren't a weight weenie, then just try one and see how you like it.

    ecooke21- what bike are you thinking about getting?

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    5

    surly in winter and summer

    If you like to ride winter snowmobile trails, Surly Pugsley's wide tires are the ticket. If you ride the sandy trails of Moab, the Pugsley rocks.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sasquatch rides a SS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    4,559
    Another point to make is that Surly offers unique bikes. They've set many milestones and precedents in the bike world. I think their uniqueness of their company in general (website, bikes, staff) brings a certain uniqueness out of it's riders. Doesn't matter whether you're riding a 29'er or 26'er, you're riding, and that's what's important.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    871
    You know, this question pops up every once in a while. For me, it really boils down to the fact that Surly's are common sense bicycles for everyday people like me. For like 99% of the riding that normal people do (who aren't racing), good quality 4130 steel tubes and nice fat tires are all you need. Not to light, not too heavy. Smooths out the bumps in the road or the trail. For offroad, get bigger fatter tires - 26er, 29er, 29+, Pugs, Moonlander. The principle is the same. Yet, the bike industry is out there selling people the latest racing technology or else pushing cheap aluminum bikes with cheap crappy suspension forks that scream "me too". Surly is really a repudiation of the gimmickiness and trendiness that kind of pervades the bike industry and is just a breath of fresh air. Just gimme steel and fat tires. Other brands do it too - Soma, Rivendell, Rawlands, Gunnar, Singular, etc. All purveyors of bikes I would love to own. But Surly's are generally less expensive and more readily available, both new and used. So its Surly's that I own.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    13
    +1 everything that's already been said. I bought a KM a year ago to try SS on the local singletrack and to ride rails to trails with my young boys. My Pivot Mach 4 has collected dust since then. The KM is simple, well built, affordable, and a blast to ride.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    332
    Quote Originally Posted by bolandjd View Post
    You know, this question pops up every once in a while. For me, it really boils down to the fact that Surly's are common sense bicycles for everyday people like me. For like 99% of the riding that normal people do (who aren't racing), good quality 4130 steel tubes and nice fat tires are all you need. Not to light, not too heavy. Smooths out the bumps in the road or the trail. For offroad, get bigger fatter tires - 26er, 29er, 29+, Pugs, Moonlander. The principle is the same. Yet, the bike industry is out there selling people the latest racing technology or else pushing cheap aluminum bikes with cheap crappy suspension forks that scream "me too". Surly is really a repudiation of the gimmickiness and trendiness that kind of pervades the bike industry and is just a breath of fresh air. Just gimme steel and fat tires. Other brands do it too - Soma, Rivendell, Rawlands, Gunnar, Singular, etc. All purveyors of bikes I would love to own. But Surly's are generally less expensive and more readily available, both new and used. So its Surly's that I own.
    Word!

    If you are tired about the "Illusion of New" presented in the print magazines and just want to ride "the simple" way, Surly is a good choice. Remember: the biggest problem often sits *on* the bike, so its better to improve the riders capacities than buying the latest bike every few years.

    Its much more satisfying to ride difficult things with a simple bike like a Surly.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    12
    Fair question. I was riding a aluminum trek for about 8 years and had had it with getting beat up. I went the aluminum route because at 6 foot 200 lbs the old steel schwinn prelude was not getting it done. When I decided to go steel again I had not intention of coming any where close to a hill so the stiffness of the frame didn't matter anymore, it became all about comfort. I found the surly pacer to meet the needs I had and it is a great bike. By the way I'm now about 220 and losing weight but I'm riding hills on it with no bb flex issues at all. Like the surly so much I'm looking at getting either a CC or Long Haul Trucker in the spring.

  13. #13
    tl1
    tl1 is offline
    Bicyclist
    Reputation: tl1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    2,851
    A Surly is like a nice tasty grass fed steak without the marketing department's sizzle and they're steel. Vegetarians insert your own Surly analogy.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    144
    First real mountain bike was a Specialized Stumpjumper (purchased two years ago). When I decided I wanted a bike to cruise around on, ride to the park or school with my kid, etc., I was thinking cargo bike. There's only a couple of choices there, Kona Ute or Surly Big Dummy - that, and the ridiculousness of the Pugsley, attracted my attention to Surly. Then I saw the Ogre. I can put racks and panniers on there to haul stuff AND it can do trail duty? Sold. Built it as a single speed, the anti-Stumpjumper if you will. Put good knobbies on it so I could ride it on the trail when the Stumpjumper was out of commission. Now there are times when I'd rather ride the Ogre on the trail.

    That's a long answer for a short question. Here's the short answer: fun, simple, well-built, relatively inexpensive. And sometimes ridiculous. But if I lived where it snowed, I would darn sure have a Pugs or Moonlander in the stable.

  15. #15
    Monkey Junkie
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    593
    Everyone has pretty much nailed it so far. Surly designs simple, steel, versatile bikes that ride well. They aren't the only company doing it, but they are the most affordable and readily available to my knowledge. They don't follow industry trends but they make solid products and design bikes to be fun.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: vikb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    10,150
    Quote Originally Posted by ecooke21 View Post
    whats the fascination with surly? i see a ton of people worshiping them.. why are they so desirable?
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    3,834
    My 1x1 is lemon lime green, that color is awesome. Isn't that reason enough?

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 4nbstd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    610
    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    A Surly is like a nice tasty grass fed steak without the marketing department's sizzle and they're steel. Vegetarians insert your own Surly analogy.
    Just a good ol' milk chocolate bar. No fancy shape, no peanut, caramel non sense. Just pure chocolatey goodness in square. I'm not a vegetarian though.
    Ghisallo Wheels

    I'm really good looking.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    13
    I have had a Surly Troll now for a few months.
    I couldn't be happier with my purchase.
    It is worth every dollar and then some.

    It's a worry free bike that you can ride with great confidence.
    It's well thought out and designed by people that are in the know and actually ride bikes.

    It is so versatile unlike any other bike.
    You can make it into any kind of bike you want to suit your needs and purpose.

    It's a strong reliable bike.
    Just buy one and fall in love with it.
    It likes you back if you ride it rough and tumble, no prissy stuff allowed.

    Forget about all the meaningless rhetoric marketing.
    Just buy one and get happy.
    This many more than satisfied surly owners with no complaints should tell
    you something.

  20. #20
    Monkey Junkie
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    593
    Another reason that Surly has such a good rep is that the bikes are meant to be tinkered with and allow the owner to build them into whatever they want. I have two mountain bikes - a Surly KM and a Trek X-Cal. The Trek is a solid bike that I have hardly changed at all since buying it. It was designed to be a racy hardtail and nothing else, and it does that well. The KM on the other hand, has seen 6 or 7 different builds, and has done everything for trail riding to commuting to long road rides. I think it does best as an off road bike but I've ridden it off road as a fixed gear, SS, 3x9 and 1x9. It evolves as I decide to try different things. I don't see myself changing it much in the future, but I've had fun building and re building it. It's a totally different beast than my other bike with a lot more soul.

  21. #21
    roots, rocks, rhythm
    Reputation: Dawgprimo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    656
    I chime in with my 0.02 cents to....
    I believe that everyone has pretty much said why Surly is so desired and has so much loyal support.
    But basically it is the product.
    Simple put they found a niche in the industry that the customer wants that not a lot of other company do. They listen to their customers and they them selves ride, so they don't loose touch with what works. The frames are well made, simple, versatile, and just look like they want to be taken out and ridden.

    I just bought a Troll a few months ago (my first Surly) and was impressed with the frame from the start. Built up the bike to how I liked it and never have I once regretted buying it. In fact my next bike might be a Pug????? They look sooo cool!
    I have 2 full suspension Turner bikes that I love to ride and in my opinion the Surly is not my second choice to those 2. Each bike has a purpose but in my opinion the Surly is one of the nicest bikes I got in my stable.
    I just wish I had more time to ride them more........that is another story!!!

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    754
    Quote Originally Posted by keevohn View Post
    On the one hand, they're inexpensive, versatile, and durable.

    On the other hand, they're funky, innovative, and just plain fun.

    I think those qualities speak to a lot of people, myself included.
    Well said, sums it up well. Had a 'cross-check for years and wish I could afford to add a few more to the quiver.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    12
    That's the bad part about Surly, they're all so cool you want one of each.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    242
    3-4 months ago I didn't know anything about Surly bikes.

    I wanted a utility bike that I could ride on the street and trail, and maybe do some bikepacking.

    In researching my options, it quickly became clear that Surly and Salsa have a lot to offer in this category, and have almost no company from the competition.

    Their bikes are also very reasonably priced and well designed.

    R

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    12
    Never rode a salsa only the surly and will never get any other brand. In my opinion surly is the best.

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    936

    Surly

    in the early days, it may have even been before the Surly name was coined and they simply went by the name of the only model they produced, One X One, their only marketing term was, "Good Stuff Cheap".

    No argument they design/produce Good Stuff, some will even say Great Stuff, and it's about as bombproof as it gets. I'm still riding/commuting on my original OnexOne Rat Ride from 1999 that I purchased new, still my preferred ride these days. When I tire of that bike I hop on my CrossCheck, another well thought out design. It's pushing 10 yrs old and is still the benchmark for Monstercross bikes.

    Oh and when the urge hits me I jump on my Pugs to hit the beach or winter trails. The fun factor is endless!

    Surly is popular because they make great innovative stuff that's the best bang for the buck in the industry. Yes, I'm a fan and have no reason to change.

    Thanks for letting me rant!

    Pat

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    231
    Quote Originally Posted by the-one1 View Post
    Surly you can't be serious?

    I am serious, and don't call me Surly.
    I am not repeating myself I am not repeating myself!

  28. #28
    Tires
    Reputation: Gritter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    529
    Why are their tires so expensive? 2.5-inch hookworms 60 TPI are $35 each, while the 2.7-inch 27 TPI Dirt Wizards are $90 EACH, and the 120 TPI version is $120 each. More than two-and-a-half-times the price for less-than-half the threads per inch? I realize tires are a lot more than TPI, but I'm guessing a lot of the cost is for the name.

    I could buy almost 7 hookworms for the price of one pair of 120 TPI DW's. Is the additional 0.2" of width worth that? Are they any lighter?

    Surly prices are directly related to their reputation and popularity. The value they once were has gone down with their quality control and lack of customer service. They built up their rep, and now they're milking it dry. I wouldn't be surprised if they move manufacturing to China, and start showing up at Walmarts.
    Soma, Surly, Salsa, Schwalbe, SRAM, Sun-Ringlé

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    754
    I've been a Surly fan since the 1x1 first came out (before they were even called Surly). I've only owned one (a cross-check), but I've had it for 9 years. There will soon be another (pre-ordered an ice cream truck).
    Like everyone else said, Surly bikes are tough, affordable, well designed, versatile, and at times exceedingly innovative. Sure, there were fat bikes before the Pugsley, but the Pugs (and rims and tires from Surly) really got it rolling.
    They're not afraid to make something really goofy, and I admire that. Take your carbon fiber and shove it up your ass.

  30. #30
    Positively negative
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2,195
    Quote Originally Posted by Gritter View Post
    Why are their tires so expensive? 2.5-inch hookworms 60 TPI are $35 each, while the 2.7-inch 27 TPI Dirt Wizards are $90 EACH, and the 120 TPI version is $120 each. More than two-and-a-half-times the price for less-than-half the threads per inch? I realize tires are a lot more than TPI, but I'm guessing a lot of the cost is for the name.

    I could buy almost 7 hookworms for the price of one pair of 120 TPI DW's. Is the additional 0.2" of width worth that? Are they any lighter?

    Surly prices are directly related to their reputation and popularity. The value they once were has gone down with their quality control and lack of customer service. They built up their rep, and now they're milking it dry. I wouldn't be surprised if they move manufacturing to China, and start showing up at Walmarts.
    While I will admit that Surly stuff tends to sell for a premium these days I something tires are a fair comparison. I'd best maxxis sells and orders/makes 100 times more tires a year then Surly and that type of volume will help drive down costs.

    I'd also bet that Surly is using that extra 10 or 20 bucks to come up with more neato products that everyone can copy.

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    137
    I got a Troll a few years back because I wanted a 26-inch-wheeled bike that could do everything from commuting to ripping trails to touring to trekking across Asia. There wasn't anything else on the market that had that kind of versatility without costing at least twice as much.

    They have some pretty solid bikes for the value, although I'm alarmed at how much the prices seem to keep going up each year for pretty much the same product. The prices aren't outrageous, but it's too bad you can't get a Cross Check or a Trucker or a grand anymore...

    I just picked up a used Pugsley today for less than that though, so now I'll have a whole other experience.
    www.julianbender.net

    Pictures of bike trips, hikes, and other travels

  32. #32
    A God Without A Name
    Reputation: Agwan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,250
    there are companies that make lighter, better riding bikes than Surly. Soma is just one of them.

    But Surlys are like Lego's. depending on what you hang from the frame. you can make countless different bikes on the same frame. a cross check does fair duty as a road bike. but it also does fair duty as a mountain bike. provided you don't try to catch any air on it. don't see many Double Crosses doing that.

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation: vaultbrad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    885
    Surly bikes tend to work really well. Agwan touched on this, and I agree. Many Surlies transcend their genre and can work for other riding as well given appropriate componentry, etc.

    This guy is local to me and used his Disc Trucker with a White Eccentric hub to set the tour divide race fixed gear record. Disc trucker definitely wasnt designed as a fixed gear MTB.
    .

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    871
    Hmm, kind of funny to resurrect this two year old thread to basically rant about tire prices. But, there's definitely some truth to Surly straying from its original "Good Stuff Cheap" motto. The "cheap" part, not the "good stuff" part. I suppose its natural for a company to evolve, and I'm glad that Surly has enjoyed success over the years, even if it does mean that its popularity commands higher prices. I like that Surly is still the industry iconoclast - producing 26" 1x1s, Trolls, Instigators and LHTs when everyone else is giving up on 26"; keeping rim brakes on the CC, LHT, Troll and Ogre even as other OEMs are switching to discs on everything including roadbikes; continuing to innovate with fatbikes and 29+ when they could just tweak the Pugs and call it good. I could go on; I'm still a fan.
    Surly Cross Check: fat tire roadie
    Surly LHT: Kid hauler
    On One Inbred: SS 26er

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    425
    I think Surly's complete avoidance of outrageous marketing claims and their ability to poke fun at the rest of the industry is a big part of the trust they build with their customers. Plus, they make great, very durable bikes at a really fair price. They are the anti-spandex, Lance, weight weenie, overspending on dubious technology company. They make bikes that are really versatile

    They have a sense of humor and are very innovative in their own way. They're kind of a visible symbol to their customer base of people that "get it" that the industry pushes a lot of very expensive technology that isn't built to last. And, of course, that if you can ride a Surly, you're a real bike rider, not a poser. IMHO a very smart company. I've bought, sold and traded a lot of bikes but have kept my Karate Monkey and Pugsley a long time.
    Are you really sure about that?

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    166
    On my third Surly. But, why?

    Because their marketing schtick has me helpless in its thrall.

    Like the rest of you fan boys.

    Or, is it that Surly figured out what I like and decided to make it for me; just because they liked me so much? Yes, that must be it.
    Spinymouse

    11 KM SS
    13 CC Rando-Check
    13 Pugsley

  37. #37
    A God Without A Name
    Reputation: Agwan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,250
    To be fair, if there was a bike company named Thrall that made steel bikes perfect for commuting. I'd probably sell my Surly in a heartbeat.

  38. #38
    Tires
    Reputation: Gritter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    529
    Quote Originally Posted by bolandjd View Post
    Hmm, kind of funny to resurrect this two year old thread to basically rant about tire prices.
    Hilarious. Knard Tire Failure
    Soma, Surly, Salsa, Schwalbe, SRAM, Sun-Ringlé

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,180
    Quote Originally Posted by vaultbrad View Post
    Surly bikes tend to work really well. Agwan touched on this, and I agree. Many Surlies transcend their genre and can work for other riding as well given appropriate componentry, etc.

    This guy is local to me and used his Disc Trucker with a White Eccentric hub to set the tour divide race fixed gear record. Disc trucker definitely wasnt designed as a fixed gear MTB.
    Not to get off topic of this silly rant session, but do you have any more info on this individual? Time, bike details, gearing, etc?

  40. #40
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    58
    I've owned some nice bikes in the past- a Santa Cruz Superlight, an Intense Tracer, couple of high end 853 hardtails. They were great bikes but kinda overpriced and even though they rode well they had design quirks like ill-thoughout cable routing, bad paint or odd geometry. The two Surlys I own are both perfect in every way. They are very adaptable, not showy or flashy and perform well above their modest price. If you look past the slacker image and ironic product naming Surly make some very high performance bikes. The KM is a hardcore trail bike supreme- it screams downhill and eats singletrack, takes 100mm forks AND it has rack mounts. That means I can do that 100 mile XC event and carry the tools, food and clothing I need for the day whilst being self supported...

  41. #41
    Back in the Saddle Again
    Reputation: MaddCelt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    143
    Why Surly?

    Well, for me the 1X1 was the only frame I could find that was threadless at the time and offered to me on a major discount when I wanted to step up my bike polo game. It has held up to the abuse of a Clydesdale class player on the court better than any other bike I have used.

    It also is a comfortable bike to ride when not chasing a ball around. To and from the court, or around downtown when I am not in a hurry to go anywhere.

    Why do I want another one?

    I am the type to keep to a brand if it impresses me. I currently commute on a second hand Globe Vienna and it is doing me good, but I want to upgrade to a more versatile frame. There is a commuter who comes into work with a Straggler rigged for commuting and it caught my attention. So after some research, a Disc Trucker is on my wishlist.
    Live, Learn, and Upgrade when possible.
    ----------------
    2009 Jamis Venture Sport SS (Ratbike)
    2013 Surly 1X1 Polo bike
    2009 Globe Vienna (Mule)

  42. #42
    A God Without A Name
    Reputation: Agwan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,250
    Ooooooh. what made you decide on the Trucker over the Straggler?

    I ask because I'm a Clyde who commutes on a Straggler.

  43. #43
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    254

    why surly?

    For me they are straightforward, durable, and affordable bikes that fit me needs. I have a pugsley, building a single speed krampus, and I will probably build my wife up a straggler by the end of the year.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  44. #44
    Back in the Saddle Again
    Reputation: MaddCelt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    143
    I was mainly cost but looking over the catalog, I noticed that the Cross/Straggler has horizontal drops, not something I need on a commuter, I like the longer chain stays and the ability to go 26 or 700

    Quote Originally Posted by Agwan View Post
    Ooooooh. what made you decide on the Trucker over the Straggler?

    I ask because I'm a Clyde who commutes on a Straggler.
    Live, Learn, and Upgrade when possible.
    ----------------
    2009 Jamis Venture Sport SS (Ratbike)
    2013 Surly 1X1 Polo bike
    2009 Globe Vienna (Mule)

  45. #45
    A God Without A Name
    Reputation: Agwan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,250
    That makes a lot of sense, have you looked at the Soma Saga Disc? It's a considerably better bike for about 30 bucks more. tange fork and front triangle. plus all the things that make the disc trucker good.

  46. #46
    Back in the Saddle Again
    Reputation: MaddCelt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    143
    I have the fortune to get wholesale pricing on bikes, a bit less than a handful of Benjamins can get me a frame and since recently changed out my drivetrain and bars on the Mule, I'd have what I need to get it road worthy pretty quick.

    Come on oil check! Daddy needs a new set of wheels!

    Quote Originally Posted by Agwan View Post
    That makes a lot of sense, have you looked at the Soma Saga Disc? It's a considerably better bike for about 30 bucks more. tange fork and front triangle. plus all the things that make the disc trucker good.
    Live, Learn, and Upgrade when possible.
    ----------------
    2009 Jamis Venture Sport SS (Ratbike)
    2013 Surly 1X1 Polo bike
    2009 Globe Vienna (Mule)

  47. #47
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Ivan67's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    241
    I had a GF Paragon I rode for 18 years. In 2001 when I got stationed in Europe it became my complete means of transport. In 2004 I retired, sent most my belongings that did not fit on my rig back to Texas with the only intention of riding around Europe until I get bored. By 2013 I ordered my first Surly, a Moonlander 22XXL.

    I did a great deal of research online when I could get to a camp site with wifi looking for the bike that fit all my needs and more just perfect. By late 2011 I had decided on a Surly but could not find a dealer to sell me one because I have no address. Then I found this website one day and asked around and not even a month later I had a dealer ready to order me one as long as I paid in full up front.

    When I traded up for my Surly I was not bored yet, not even close but now that I have my Surly I can take new routes my GF would have never dreamed of. I load this rig down with all my belongings, tug my trailer and go where ever I want to. It fits my personality and makes my body feel young again ready to do something I have not in a while.

    Spent most of my adult life as an operator in the Army so I take the Moonlander as another piece kit, some of your kit you can pick but things like your lifeline (guns & bikes), they pick you if you invest enough time and intel.
    De oppresso liber

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,180
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan67 View Post
    I had a GF Paragon I rode for 18 years. In 2001 when I got stationed in Europe it became my complete means of transport. In 2004 I retired, sent most my belongings that did not fit on my rig back to Texas with the only intention of riding around Europe until I get bored. By 2013 I ordered my first Surly, a Moonlander 22XXL.

    I did a great deal of research online when I could get to a camp site with wifi looking for the bike that fit all my needs and more just perfect. By late 2011 I had decided on a Surly but could not find a dealer to sell me one because I have no address. Then I found this website one day and asked around and not even a month later I had a dealer ready to order me one as long as I paid in full up front.

    When I traded up for my Surly I was not bored yet, not even close but now that I have my Surly I can take new routes my GF would have never dreamed of. I load this rig down with all my belongings, tug my trailer and go where ever I want to. It fits my personality and makes my body feel young again ready to do something I have not in a while.

    Spent most of my adult life as an operator in the Army so I take the Moonlander as another piece kit, some of your kit you can pick but things like your lifeline (guns & bikes), they pick you if you invest enough time and intel.
    Sounds like you're getting good use out of your Surly. That is great! And thanks for your service.

  49. #49
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    256
    I tend to agree with Grant Petersen that non-suspension mountain bikes from the mid-to-late 80's to the mid-90's are perfect "all-rounder" bikes. Strong steel frames, comfortable, adaptable, clearance for wide tires, fun to ride, rugged and simple. Grant seems to have carried on this tradition in his Rivendell bikes and Surly does the same thing at a much, much lower price point.

    The Karate Monkey, Ogre, Troll and 26" Long Haul Trucker are the perfect "all-rounders" in my view and they have a few others that would meet that criteria for other riding styles.

    Then they have the more specialized, innovative bikes like the fat bikes and the 29+ and that's pretty cool.

    Also, I gotta admit.......the marketing is spectacular.

    I would say that Surly is one of a small handful of companies offering what I'm looking for and I simply liked their offerings more than the other's.

    I'm running out of reasons for my KM to not be my PERFECT bike but I still find myself wanting a 26" LHT. I guess that's the allure of Surly.

  50. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation: cassa89's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    548
    I've asked myself "why Surly?" a number of times. I guess I prefer the feel of a steel bike, and I like how they're amazing platforms for making them unique and "yours." I have 2 so far, and am always thinking about which Surly I'll have next.
    Surly Ice Cream Truck
    Surly Krampus

  51. #51
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    199
    Frankly, the cross check is an okay bike. But the frame is a bit weaker than I would prefer. But a trailer in place of racks will make it do fine.

    The troll on the other hand is crap. It gets wobbly up front if you put so much as 30lbs up front and the rear drop outs are a HORRIBLE pain in the ass to deal with.

  52. #52
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    871
    Most bikes with high trail aren't going to handle well with 30 lbs on the front, not just the Troll. Get a low trail porteur bike if that's how you want to carry loads. Horizontal drop outs are extremely versatile and simple.
    Surly Cross Check: fat tire roadie
    Surly LHT: Kid hauler
    On One Inbred: SS 26er

  53. #53
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    199
    Yeah, simple until you want to remove the rear wheel. Then a huge complicated PITA. Only makes sense for fixies with no rear brake. Surly really F-ed up on that one. Sliders would have been a million times better. Maybe thicker bolts wluld be needed, but still...

  54. #54
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    256
    lighty,

    Things are getting better with horizontal drop outs. The Surly Wednesday has a vertical cut out on the inside which makes it easy to slide the wheel in and out.

    Hopeful we will see more of these type of horizontal dropouts fro Surly.

  55. #55
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    199
    They look like regular rear facing horizontal drop outs. Y'all really could bother to post some close ups of the drop outs. I never could understand why y'all don't do that.

  56. #56
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    256
    lightly,

    Best seen on the Surly illustration how it works. This design is only on the Wednesday right now. And maybe the design is limited to bikes that will have through axel designs.

    WEDNESDAY FAQ | Blog | Surly Bikes

  57. #57
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Velobike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    6,552
    Quote Originally Posted by lighty View Post
    Yeah, simple until you want to remove the rear wheel. Then a huge complicated PITA. Only makes sense for fixies with no rear brake. Surly really F-ed up on that one. Sliders would have been a million times better. Maybe thicker bolts wluld be needed, but still...
    It's not a design problem. It's a knowledge deficit on the part of whoever fitted the chain.

    When you first fit a chain to a bike with track ends, you make sure it is long enough so that when you push the wheel forward to remove the wheel there's enough slack so the chain can easily be lifted off the sprockets.

    Then you slide the wheel back to remove it.

    That way there's no PITA. It's just a simple bit of knowledge 100 years of riders had and took for granted.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  58. #58
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    199
    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    It's not a design problem. It's a knowledge deficit on the part of whoever fitted the chain.

    When you first fit a chain to a bike with track ends, you make sure it is long enough so that when you push the wheel forward to remove the wheel there's enough slack so the chain can easily be lifted off the sprockets.

    Then you slide the wheel back to remove it.

    That way there's no PITA. It's just a simple bit of knowledge 100 years of riders had and took for granted.
    Yeah... really... You just oush the wheel forward first, eh? Gee whiz, wonder why I never thought of that *sarcasm*. For one, if you have an IGH, you don't push the wheel forward, you twist the wheel so that the right end of the axle goes forward a bit, but you still have to derail the chain as there is only so far forward you can go with the anchor bolt in the way. That is a PITA. Try comparing it to a bike equipped with an eccentric. If you have a derailleur, you still have to push the wheel forward for enough to get the chain off the axle, while he supid thing is still in the dropouts, then pull the exle back. This is a HUGE PITA. Y'all might want to mislead people into thinking this is easy, but it the long run it only turns them off of your products.

  59. #59
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Velobike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    6,552
    Quote Originally Posted by lighty View Post
    Yeah... really... You just oush the wheel forward first, eh? Gee whiz, wonder why I never thought of that *sarcasm*. For one, if you have an IGH, you don't push the wheel forward, you twist the wheel so that the right end of the axle goes forward a bit, but you still have to derail the chain as there is only so far forward you can go with the anchor bolt in the way. That is a PITA. Try comparing it to a bike equipped with an eccentric. If you have a derailleur, you still have to push the wheel forward for enough to get the chain off the axle, while he supid thing is still in the dropouts, then pull the exle back. This is a HUGE PITA. Y'all might want to mislead people into thinking this is easy, but it the long run it only turns them off of your products.
    I think most people don't find this as mechanically challenging as you.

    It is a very minor issue. Riders who use flipflop rear hubs can usually swap their wheel round in under a minute.

    It's the same procedure with a hub gear in track ends, and has been for 110 years and then it's only a PITA when there is a full chaincase involved. The method you are using for a hubgear sounds very unusual to me, but maybe I am misunderstanding you.

    I agree an EBB makes it easier, as does a sliding dropout, but they come with their own issues. The simplest and most bulletproof method is a bike with track ends. (I have bikes with each of those systems)
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  60. #60
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,783
    i never found it to be all that difficult to deal with the alfine on the ogre,or when i had it on the karate monkey,the straggler dropouts were a ***** to deal with,it lasted one flat tire before i converted to 1x10 instead

  61. #61
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    199
    Please explain your difficulty in understand me. With a gear hub you have an anchor on the non drive side. This prevents the wheel from being pushed forward. Which means you have to push the drive side of the wheel forward and derail the chain by hand. This is nothing like removing a track hub. Nowhere near as easy, specially if you have cold hands.

    It may be a little easier with derailleurs, as there is nothing stopping the wheel from moving forward.

    And track ends arw not bullet proof. They have sliding issues. And for some reason the idiot that designed the tugnut didn't put a prong to keep the tugnut for spinning when you tighten the bolt. Meaning the torque goes onto the screw of the tugnut when tightening which can bend the screw, and also makes it more difficult to get the axle just perfectly straight as the screw has to be close to tight to prevent the tugnut from spinning... and even then the tugnut still sets in there crooked initially. PITA!

    I actually thought the straggler design would be easier. WTF?

  62. #62
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    256
    Quote Originally Posted by lighty View Post
    Please explain your difficulty in understand me. With a gear hub you have an anchor on the non drive side. This prevents the wheel from being pushed forward. Which means you have to push the drive side of the wheel forward and derail the chain by hand. This is nothing like removing a track hub. Nowhere near as easy, specially if you have cold hands.

    It may be a little easier with derailleurs, as there is nothing stopping the wheel from moving forward.

    And track ends arw not bullet proof. They have sliding issues. And for some reason the idiot that designed the tugnut didn't put a prong to keep the tugnut for spinning when you tighten the bolt. Meaning the torque goes onto the screw of the tugnut when tightening which can bend the screw, and also makes it more difficult to get the axle just perfectly straight as the screw has to be close to tight to prevent the tugnut from spinning... and even then the tugnut still sets in there crooked initially. PITA!

    I actually thought the straggler design would be easier. WTF?
    I have no direct experience with IGH's but I can see where they would be a PITA in this context.

    Derailleur bikes couldn't be easier. I use Monkey Nuts so my wheel will not move forward at all. I just push the derailleur toward the chainring and then slip the chain off the chainring. The wheel slides straight back and out and the chain comes with it. Then I just slip the chain off the cassette. Simple as can be.

    I will say I have rim brakes so maybe disks would make it more complex.

  63. #63
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Rob_E's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    336
    I have a Troll with an Alfine, and I don't have this issue. I guess I don't have an anchor on the non-drive side. I'm not clear on what that's about. Loosen two bolts, slide the wheel forward to remove the chain, slide the wheel back. Considering that I used to run a gear hub on vertical dropouts, I find the track ends to be a dream.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  64. #64
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,783
    Quote Originally Posted by lighty View Post
    Please explain your difficulty in understand me. With a gear hub you have an anchor on the non drive side. This prevents the wheel from being pushed forward. Which means you have to push the drive side of the wheel forward and derail the chain by hand. This is nothing like removing a track hub. Nowhere near as easy, specially if you have cold hands.

    It may be a little easier with derailleurs, as there is nothing stopping the wheel from moving forward.

    And track ends arw not bullet proof. They have sliding issues. And for some reason the idiot that designed the tugnut didn't put a prong to keep the tugnut for spinning when you tighten the bolt. Meaning the torque goes onto the screw of the tugnut when tightening which can bend the screw, and also makes it more difficult to get the axle just perfectly straight as the screw has to be close to tight to prevent the tugnut from spinning... and even then the tugnut still sets in there crooked initially. PITA!

    I actually thought the straggler design would be easier. WTF?
    well with the straggler i had a really big tire stuffed in the back so there was just one spot where the chain tension was good for the alfine and the tire wasnt rubbing the stays...and it was blowing 30mph at the time...and then fiddling the shifter cable into place....its too bad,i loved the alfine...it does weigh a ton though...1x10 on the straggler was a serious weight loss...

    and once again,i found the tugnut to be very easy to tension the chain on the alfine on the ogre,i run a dos enos 17/19 hub on my karate monkey and it takes me like 2 minutes to change the gear and get the chain tensioned...

  65. #65
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Velobike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    6,552
    Quote Originally Posted by lighty View Post
    Please explain your difficulty in understand me. With a gear hub you have an anchor on the non drive side. This prevents the wheel from being pushed forward. Which means you have to push the drive side of the wheel forward and derail the chain by hand. This is nothing like removing a track hub. Nowhere near as easy, specially if you have cold hands.
    ...
    And track ends arw not bullet proof. They have sliding issues. And for some reason the idiot that designed the tugnut didn't put a prong to keep the tugnut for spinning when you tighten the bolt.
    The method you describe for removing a hubgear sounds strange to me. It seems that basically your problem is with the tugnut, which is Surly's version of a chain tensioner. I'm a bit puzzled how you are able to use it on a hub gear as well as the antirotation washers. Maybe a pic would help.

    I have never come across a chain tensioner with sliding issues, but I haven't used the Surly one, so maybe that's different. Maybe other owners could comment.

    I slacken and remove the chain tensioner before trying to move the wheel. That just adds a few seconds to the operation, and then it's just like a track wheel (apart from disconnecting the gear cable).

    A tensioner is just an alignment aid, and is not necessary if you tighten your axle nuts properly in my experience* (Sturmey-Archer or Alfine hubs). It may help if you mention which hubgear you are using.

    There's not many tensioners you can use with an Alfine because its thick antirotation washers get in the way. If you don't use the antirotation washers, you risk spreading the dropout out of parallel - which then makes clamping the wheel properly almost impossible and ruins the frame.

    There are ways to use tensioners with a hub provided with thick antirotation washers.

    One is to use thin S-A antirotation washers in their stead on the inside of the dropout - you may have to remove or thin the existing washers on the hub because otherwise you have effectively widened the OLD, or on a steel frame simply cold set the frame a bit wider (I would prefer option 1).

    The way other is to use the old-fashioned tensioners which are made out of pressed steel (and hence very thin) and have them on the inside of the dropout. This allows you to use the antirotation washers in their specified position. They look like this:



    I replace the nut with a wingnut if I use them because it saves having to carry a 10mm spanner.

    (With a bit of careful bending they can be used on the outside of the antirotation washers, but the threaded portion is usually too short to allow much of a bend.)

    The ideal would be an antirotation washer with an integrated tensioner.

    When a tensioner is used it should be as a positioning device rather than to put a lot of tension on the chain, ie it allows fine adjustment of the alignment. When I use them, they are never more than finger tight because I rely on properly tightening the wheel nuts to hold the wheel in place.

    If you want a tensioner that is easy to remove then there are other brands available, eg On-One chaintug | On - One. This model can be quickly removed and has fine adjustment.




    * and countless millions of other cyclists over the last 100 odd years.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  66. #66
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,133
    The reason track bikes use "track ends" is because they're more reliable, and safer than other dropout types, right? Wouldn't those benefits carry over to mountain bike applications?

    They also happen to be the most versatile. SS, fixed gear, fully geared, IGH all no problem. Doesn't need moving parts like sliding dropouts.

    Yeah, you get a little bit of slippage. But its easy enough to just readjust the rear wheel every so often to keep it where it needs to be.

  67. #67
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Velobike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    6,552
    Quote Originally Posted by ultraspontane View Post
    The reason track bikes use "track ends" is because they're more reliable, and safer than other dropout types, right? Wouldn't those benefits carry over to mountain bike applications? ...
    I think that's been amply demonstrated in recent times by the ten of thousands of 1x1s and KMs over the years since 1998 (not to mention their common use in overloaded bicycles in the 3rd world for the last 100 or so years).

    A hub gear can be safely clamped up really tight - their axles are generally much tougher than ordinary axles and their thread pitch is fine. Done properly they don't slip.

    Perhaps an explanation may help for those not familiar with hubgears.

    With a hubgear, when you pedal forward, the axle wants to turn backwards. If it was not restrained from doing so, it would revolve and you'd go nowhere. The lower the gearing, the more torque on the axle.

    There are ways to make a hubgear slip in the dropouts.

    Put the wheel in slightly cocked, ie out of parallel to the dropouts, it will tighten up apparently ok, but walk under stress. If you draw a diagram, it's easy to see how.

    The other way to make it slip is to leave out the antirotation washers, especially on a hub like an Alfine. There is not enough resistance to the torque so the axle turns slightly in the dropout, thus spreading it. Under momentary pressure it can slip back to its proper position and move forward before the dropout springs back. Use a hub without the antirotation washers for long enough and you can do permanent damage to the dropout. The hub will no longer clamp properly because the frame is now fubarred.

    Hubs with ultra low gearing like the Rohloff use a completely different method to restrain the feedback torque through the axle because even antirotation washers are not adequate for the job.

    Some people are not aware that the disk side of their wheel can slip backwards under heavy braking. This is sometimes misconstrued as the drive side movement, because the wheel gets angled the same way. As there is no tensioner for this purpose, the only answer is properly tightening the wheel nuts.

    Sliding dropouts aren't immune to hassles either. Feedback torque caused by braking resulted in a problem for some types of sliding dropout where the disk calliper was mounted to the frame, not the slider. In that case the brake side slider would move backwards under braking. On one bike I had to make a restraining tensioner facing in the "wrong" direction to counter this. Most of the recent sliders fortunately don't have this problem.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  68. #68
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    199
    I am using a rohloff. No anti rotation nuts for it. Just an axle plate where the anchor bolt is in front of the wheel on this particular frame preventing it from being pushed forward. And it does slip without the tugnut. I have tightened it as tight as I am comfortable with. If I strip out the right side axle it has to go back to germany for pricey repair. Alfines and such just don't have enough range or reliability for what I do.

  69. #69
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Velobike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    6,552
    Quote Originally Posted by lighty View Post
    I am using a rohloff...
    That's quite an important bit of information. Can you post a picture of your set up.

    I have a Rohloff too, but it's the model for a specially designed dropout. The Rohloff can be a PITA to fit/remove in my opinion, it all depends on the frame.

    Unfortunately because of its high price there are very few bikes designed to meet the Rohloff hub special requirements, and those that do are not cheap.

    For those who aren't aware of Rohloff frame requirements, a look at this will help - Dropout styles: www.rohloff.de
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  70. #70
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    199
    The troll actually was very lazily designed for the rohloff. It has an extra slot for the anchor bolt. I cant decide if I like it or 9 speed more. Cept maybe during winter mud and ice. Then rohly wins. But I can't work on it! But it saves money in the long run..................argh!

    Why did 9 speed go out? Why!?

  71. #71
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Velobike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    6,552
    Sounds like you need a quick release bolt for the anchor.

    For a similar problem for a drum brake torque arm I modified a seatpost clamp bolt as seen here.

    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  72. #72
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Afun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    401
    Something about bikes without shocks. This is the only brand I've been able to buy. I will be on my third Surly since January. Salsa is a very close second.
    Surly Ogre
    Marin Pine Mountain 1
    Yeti SB4.5 For Sale

  73. #73
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    214
    Here is an interesting view on Surly from the perspective of a custom frame builder

    In defense of Surly

  74. #74
    mtbr member
    Reputation: huhue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    71
    Back in the days, I read about those crazy singlespeeders on the other (your) side of the pond. Wanted one myself. After I translated the brands name, which some people say, fits my personality, I knew I want one.

    Now 17 Years later, I still ride that '99 1x1 as a commuter. It's still fun it's still going strong. And it's still feeling like a glove.

    About the price, I just calculated how much my 1x1 frame would cost these days (considering inflation for 17 years). And the overall price after inflation has risen 10%. I can live with that.

    I bought a Big Dummy, because of the experience I had with my 1x1 and I love that bike aswell.

    In the future, there will probably be another Surly, which will replace my Titanium Hei Hei and My Ibis Mojo (from the mid 90ies). Maybe that last bike won't be a Surly who knows, but chances are it will.

  75. #75
    mtbr member
    Reputation: cassa89's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    548
    Why Surly? Because of stuff like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0KJ-8bLGiw
    Surly Ice Cream Truck
    Surly Krampus

  76. #76
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    334
    My other bike is Kona Unit, which I love and had before I got my Cross Check. And while that's a pretty versatile bike too(in fact in some ways it's kinda dare I say "Surly-like" in that regard), I wanted something that I knew I could have for years and screw around with the configuration of--from road to off-road--because I'm fickle, and, I'm cheap(can't afford a garage full of different bikes). And I like things that feel "classic", but also utilitarian and rugged---not gratuitously retro just to be cool. The Cross Check ticks all the boxes. If I ever got rid of the Unit, I'd get a Karate Monkey
    Last edited by jbass; 05-10-2016 at 08:52 PM.

  77. #77
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bazooka_beard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    381
    My favorite reason for "Why Surly" is this last little blurb on their description for the Steamroller:
    "You can get fancier bikes, but what are you, some kind of dick? Anyway, you’d be hard-pressed to find one that is as smooth on all sorts of terrain. It’s just a plain-old good bike that rides great and isn’t too spend."
    I think it applies to most Surly products.
    "There's nothing like touching earth you've never touched"

  78. #78
    Jammin' Econo
    Reputation: Smithhammer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    2,312
    And this:

    Blog | Surly Bikes

    You can agree with it, or not, but it's a refreshingly simple, grounded approach given all the silly and confusing hype that is out there in the greater industry these days.
    "I've been mt biking for 25 years and I don't plan on ever getting a MOPED"
    - Mt Biker E

  79. #79
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    47

    surley schmurly

    nothing wrong with surly

    I just appreciate the lighter steels from soma and vassago in the same applications....especially the soma b-side as a mtb SS steed.

    but surly wins in brainwashing for heavy steel!

  80. #80
    mtbr member
    Reputation: seat_boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    2,322
    At one point, I had a Karate Monkey and a Ritchey P-29er at the same time. Riding them back to back, the KM rode better: springier, better feeling steel.

    I sold the Ritchey and still have the KM.

    Now I have a Niner SIR9 and the KM. The Niner is 853, but I still think the KM rides a bit better (I bought the Niner to play with the EBB for B+ wheels).

    I expect I'll eventually sell the Niner and still have the KM.

  81. #81
    Jammin' Econo
    Reputation: Smithhammer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    2,312
    Quote Originally Posted by brownplus View Post
    nothing wrong with surly

    I just appreciate the lighter steels from soma and vassago in the same applications....especially the soma b-side as a mtb SS steed.

    but surly wins in brainwashing for heavy steel!
    Surly Cross Check - 4.88 lbs frame, 2.19 lbs fork

    Soma Wolverine - 4.79 lbs frame, 2.3 lbs. fork

    Surly Karate Monkey - 5.7lbs w/o fork

    Soma B-side - 5.1 lbs w/o fork

    Weight aside, you're debating 4130 vs. Tange Prestige. There's a lot more to the ride/feel of a bike than metallurgy. Seems like there's plenty of brainwashing to go around.
    "I've been mt biking for 25 years and I don't plan on ever getting a MOPED"
    - Mt Biker E

  82. #82
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,025
    I really like that they don't do the model year thing. Their attempts to be surly are a bit cloying at times, but if you gotta market a persona... I feel like surly caters to folks who would love a custom welded frame, but it's not in budget. Surly frames break more easily than cheap aluminum frames in my experience, at least as a slightly aggressive Mtb. Hopefully their new models get that sorted. Warranty is pretty damn good and the bikes look good.

  83. #83
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,025
    Quote Originally Posted by lighty View Post
    Yeah, simple until you want to remove the rear wheel. Then a huge complicated PITA. Only makes sense for fixies with no rear brake. Surly really F-ed up on that one. Sliders would have been a million times better. Maybe thicker bolts wluld be needed, but still...
    I don't know anybody who is happy with their sliders. They must be cleaned and regressed or they won't take the miles it seems. Surly dropouts trade wheel removal convenience for keep riding your bike convenience. It goes along with their marketing. Deal with cumbersome wheel removal.bit not with walking back

  84. #84
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    3,834
    Quote Originally Posted by PretendGentleman View Post
    I really like that they don't do the model year thing. Their attempts to be surly are a bit cloying at times, but if you gotta market a persona... I feel like surly caters to folks who would love a custom welded frame, but it's not in budget. Surly frames break more easily than cheap aluminum frames in my experience, at least as a slightly aggressive Mtb. Hopefully their new models get that sorted. Warranty is pretty damn good and the bikes look good.
    Break? Not under my 230 lb lard but. Ever. Have a 1x1 in lemon lime pearl. A KM and a cross check. No issues with the frames. Ridden hard and put away wet.

  85. #85
    mtbr member
    Reputation: l'oiseau's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    972
    They just work.
    Life is too short to ride a bike you don't love.

  86. #86
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Velobike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    6,552
    Quote Originally Posted by seat_boy View Post
    At one point, I had a Karate Monkey and a Ritchey P-29er at the same time. Riding them back to back, the KM rode better: springier, better feeling steel.

    I sold the Ritchey and still have the KM.

    Now I have a Niner SIR9 and the KM. The Niner is 853, but I still think the KM rides a bit better (I bought the Niner to play with the EBB for B+ wheels).

    I expect I'll eventually sell the Niner and still have the KM.
    That's what tends to happen. You buy a Surly, then you see something "better" and buy that, but keep the the Surly.

    When the gloss of the new bike has worn off you discover you're riding the Surly more, so you dispose of the new bike and buy another "better" bike.

    After a few years you discover you still have the Surly, but it's had several temporary "better" stable mates in the meantime.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  87. #87
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    679
    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    That's what tends to happen. You buy a Surly, then you see something "better" and buy that, but keep the the Surly.

    When the gloss of the new bike has worn off you discover you're riding the Surly more, so you dispose of the new bike and buy another "better" bike.

    After a few years you discover you still have the Surly, but it's had several temporary "better" stable mates in the meantime.
    Well said


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  88. #88
    TeXaS BoY
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    167
    Quote Originally Posted by l'oiseau View Post
    They just work.
    This.
    Don't live in fear. Be ready.

    I love my bike like a fat kid loves cake.

Members who have read this thread: 110

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •