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  1. #1
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    Are Surlys overrated??

    I read a post on the KM reviews that the Karate Monkeys are just too over hyped and not good for regular 29er XC riding. I am really considering buying one and need some opinions here. Anyone with some experience feel free to comment.

  2. #2
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    Who said that and why?

    I love mine! I built mine here last winter, really been enjoying it. It's pretty nimble for a steel framed 29er. It's EXTREMLY versatile, and you can use the frame as a canvas to create your masterpiece bike as you see fit. It also rides really nice, and is a really well made frame. My only complaint, is the weight, but we can't all afford CF bikes, nor do I like the ride as much with CF or Aluminum. Steel is a bit more forgiving, not to mention easy to repair and super burly.

    I'd reccomend one.

    Here's mine, look at how much fun I'm having!:

    -Eric
    Keeping the hardtail dream alive, one ride at a time.

  3. #3
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    Yes, they are overrated.

  4. #4
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    I don't think Surly makes their components out to be anything more than they are- simple, well designed, durable, relatively inexpensive bikes. they don't appeal to those who need the latest, most high-tech, lightweight parts, but they appeal to people who like stuff that lasts and is just made right without a lot of tech hype. the "image" is kind of punk, which appeals to some, but that's not what makes their stuff good, it's just part of the package. the ideas they create are humble and blue collar, so the image fits.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    I don't think Surly makes their components out to be anything more than they are- simple, well designed, durable, relatively inexpensive bikes. they don't appeal to those who need the latest, most high-tech, lightweight parts, but they appeal to people who like stuff that lasts and is just made right without a lot of tech hype. the "image" is kind of punk, which appeals to some, but that's not what makes their stuff good, it's just part of the package. the ideas they create are humble and blue collar, so the image fits.
    Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmucker View Post
    Yes, they are overrated.
    How so? If anything I'd say they are under rated. Most people who are looking at a new frame for a bike go for something far more expensive and glitzy that on the trail really yields no big desernable difference in riding. Usually the people I see riding them are bike die-hards/LBS employees who know what they can do.

    If you are looking for the latest and greatest bike, or the best race bike, I wouldn't pick a surly, but if you need a versitle, or robust/fun trail bike, you can't go wrong.
    -Eric
    Keeping the hardtail dream alive, one ride at a time.

  6. #6
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    Under rated. Seriously smart all around bikes. That is unless you are a weight weenie, then I would look elsewhere.

  7. #7
    TrinityRiverKerplunk
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    I love my CC, works well off road for sure. But they are over rated for sure. Flex like crazy, and I'm used to steel frames since they're all I ride.

    Dropouts and other small stuff aren't as good as other builders imho. But one thing is for sure, they ride very smooth and comfortable. I think that's what puts them in another category, and for that reason they are worth buying.
    Good friction shifting is getting hard to find nowadays....

  8. #8
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    Just get one you will love it!

  9. #9
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    Depends on what you are looking for. If you are looking for a true XC machine, than the KM probably is over rated. The geo isn't as up to date as many other 29" bikes, and it's pretty heavy tubing. If you want a good steel XC steed, the Kona Unit is a pretty unbelievable deal.

    The KM offers fatter tire clearance, and a whole lot more braze-ons. The Kona will probably be the more performance oriented of the two, but less versatile.

    I agree with the flex comment, unicrown junkie. I had a CC, which I loved, that was one hell of a noodle. Very comfortable, but the difference from it to my current steel ride, made with Columbus Zona tubing, is night and day.

  10. #10
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    Of course, many people believe stiffness is overrated and actually detrimental. See here, for instance.

    Quote Originally Posted by SSSasky View Post
    I agree with the flex comment, unicrown junkie. I had a CC, which I loved, that was one hell of a noodle. Very comfortable, but the difference from it to my current steel ride, made with Columbus Zona tubing, is night and day.

  11. #11
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    I own two; a Pugsley and a Big Dummy. I sold my old mtb and now only ride these two off-road. Mostly the Pugs. But I do want a 29er, so I'm thinking of a Karate Monkey too. Yes I LIKE SURLY.

  12. #12
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    Fantastic bike. Fun and versatile.
    Last edited by Hank244; 10-27-2011 at 08:13 PM.

  13. #13
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    Yes, they are overrated. Please go and buy a Walmart bike so that we can have plenty of Surly bikes for ourselves.



    Owner of a 2009 Surly Big Dummy, 2009 Surly 1x1 11th Anniversary Edition “1x1=11”, 2009 Surly Pugsley
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  14. #14
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    They are just over-reacting,
    Go get one,
    You will know how fun it is to ride
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  15. #15
    ppp
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    Yes, they are over rated. That's why i have a KM, a CC, a 1x1 and considering a Ogre.

    ( Oh, and i come from a high-end titanium past... Over rated? )

  16. #16
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    Me too over-reacted,
    That's why I got a KM, a CC, a LHT and a previous 1x1
    Still looking forward for a Pacer though
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  17. #17
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    Surly is held in high regard by a fair amount of bike nerds, hipsters, and average joes alike. Aside from being versatile platforms for creative bike building, surly frames are nothing special which is why they are special i suppose. I've enjoyed my CC for what it is; a bike that does a lot of things OK. I do want to sell it though as it isn't really my style I've decided, but that money will likely go into another surly(pugsley?karatemonkey?bigdummytoreplacemyxtra dale?). I'm a surly fan and biking enjoyer.

  18. #18
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    Overrated? Hardly. The KM may not be the hot ticket to the podium, but who ever claimed it to be? (Although plenty of people still race them anyway) So I guess it depends what you're looking for in a XC bike. It'll shred any trail that you have skill to ride. Hell, I ride "XC" trails on my Long Haul Trucker. But whether you like the KM will probably boil down to whether or not you like the super short chainstays and old school horizontal dropouts. If not, look elsewhere. That simple.

    It seems to me that Surly, as a company, is not only not overrated, but has an outsized influence on the bicycle market for such a small brand that most non-cyclists have never heard of. They routinely popularize innovative bicycle designs that were previously only the pervue of eccentric home mechanics (singlespeeds, fixies) and one-off custom builders (29ers, fatbikes, cargo bikes). And they have been a major player in the industry-wide renaissance of steel bikes in general. You could say that Surly is only successful because they are really only a division of QBP, the biggest parts distributer in the industry. But, QBP lets them run with some pretty bizarre concepts - far from sure bets. And Surly hits a homerun time and time again. The other industry heavyweights like Trek, Specialized, and Pacific don't have a "skunkworks" brand that is nearly as successful or trendsetting.

  19. #19
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    I can't comment specifically if Surly is overrated as I've never ridden one, but anyone who offers tires 3.8" wide has got to be at least cool and so obviously onto something.
    I would buy one just to ride on those tires.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by unicrown junkie View Post
    I love my CC, works well off road for sure. But they are over rated for sure. Flex like crazy, and I'm used to steel frames since they're all I ride.

    Dropouts and other small stuff aren't as good as other builders imho. But one thing is for sure, they ride very smooth and comfortable. I think that's what puts them in another category, and for that reason they are worth buying.
    Interesting... I'm a big dude, 6'5, 260lbs, and ride a 62cm cross check. I have never found it to be flexy. Actually, I wish it were a bit more forgiving sometimes... Mine's a 2006 (dark green)

  21. #21
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    Surly fills the niche market well. I dont think they're over rated for what they make.

  22. #22
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    Are Surlys overrated?

    Are you overrated?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by willapajames View Post
    Interesting... I'm a big dude, 6'5, 260lbs, and ride a 62cm cross check. I have never found it to be flexy. Actually, I wish it were a bit more forgiving sometimes... Mine's a 2006 (dark green)
    Funny: I'm 6'5, 225lbs, and rode a 2006 62cm Metallic Green CC. I thought it was super noodley, and eventually the weld around the BB gave way. I replaced it with a custom frame built with similar geometry, but oversized, stiffer Columbus Zona tubes.

    It's not like I don't want some flex - I still want a nice, responsive steel frame. I just felt the CC was a bit too flexy. The steel frame I have now strikes a much better compromise.

    But, flex is very much a personal issue. Some like it harder than others ...

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSSasky View Post
    Funny: I'm 6'5, 225lbs, and rode a 2006 62cm Metallic Green CC. I thought it was super noodley, and eventually the weld around the BB gave way. I replaced it with a custom frame built with similar geometry, but oversized, stiffer Columbus Zona tubes.

    It's not like I don't want some flex - I still want a nice, responsive steel frame. I just felt the CC was a bit too flexy. The steel frame I have now strikes a much better compromise.

    But, flex is very much a personal issue. Some like it harder than others ...
    I've found my CC to be pretty stiff too. Especially compared to my previous "road bikes" which were 80's lugged Japanese steel. Much, much more forgiving, but I could actually see the BB flexing when I pedaled hard. I'm 6'2", 200-ish so no lightweight.

  25. #25
    TrinityRiverKerplunk
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    I took a whole whopping ten years and change off of drop bar equipped bikes after I broke my DT on my Zunow Hummingbird one day riding home from work. That was in 2000.

    In 2004 when I saw the CC, I liked the design(minus the screwy rear brake ferrule location), and bought a frameset with a CK headset installed. It sat on top of my motor home un-built for at least five years until I finally put it all togther at the end of 2009.

    Then started commuting on it here in Seattle and the PNW. This spring I finally brazed back together my other Zunow(see RoadBikeforums), and hit the road. Mind you, this Zunow was built in 1988. So after puttin' away the CC most of the summer, I finally got back on it last month, and did I ever notice the flex! I think my older lugged stuff is stiffer personally., and by a lot.

    I'm not saying don't buy a Surly, in fact, get one! I love mine, and I am with several others here, I want a Pugsley. I just think that these bikes are overrated due to their enormous popularity, kind of like all the North Face stuff I see people wearing these days. Just because a gazillion people have it doesn't make it any better than the next guys product. QBP has done a great job with Surly no doubt!

    BTW, my weight is 200 also(damn....) and I'm only at six feet up in the air.
    Good friction shifting is getting hard to find nowadays....

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSSasky View Post
    Funny: I'm 6'5, 225lbs, and rode a 2006 62cm Metallic Green CC. I thought it was super noodley, and eventually the weld around the BB gave way. I replaced it with a custom frame built with similar geometry, but oversized, stiffer Columbus Zona tubes.

    It's not like I don't want some flex - I still want a nice, responsive steel frame. I just felt the CC was a bit too flexy. The steel frame I have now strikes a much better compromise.

    But, flex is very much a personal issue. Some like it harder than others ...
    Weird. Guess it's a matter of perception eh? I've ridden lots of noodly old steel frames over the years, but I've also ridden some super-stiff aluminum ones. Oh well, I love my 'cross-check, it works great for my fat a$$. It's primarily a gravel bike, with some pavement mixed in...

  27. #27
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    Had a Monkey for three years and a Pug for two and love them. Just got a Rocky Mountain Altitude this spring and it's no where as much fun as the Surly. With the Monkey, I can just hop on it and not worry about anything, no leaky fork, chain slap, soft shock...
    I own six bikes and the Surly are still my go to bikes 95% of the time.

  28. #28
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    you get what you pay for with a Surly. I think you pay for a no nonsense practical bicycle. The bicycle that most people should ride but don't ride because of perceived benefits associated with <insert new fangled feature>. I won't ever sell my KM, but Ill certainly try some different configurations.

  29. #29
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    I like them.

  30. #30
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    try not to believe what you read on the internet, people that love something are much less likely to review it than people that dislike something.

    Believe only what you feel through your own 2 hands, ass and feet.
    Try this: HTFU

  31. #31
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    No.

    I've owned three Surlys, all of which have exceeded my expectations and proven to be extremely well designed, practical, and versatile.

    I loved my Karate Monkey for XC riding, and had my custom 29er built with nearly identical geometry because I was so happy with how the Surly performed.

    If you are the type who has convinced yourself you "need" the newest, lightest, and most complicated and expensive bike on the market, you may not be happy with a Surly. If you are looking for a rock solid, dependable, practical bike that you're actually going to ride, a Surly will put a smile on your face.

  32. #32
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    Overrated or not, but surlys are most versatile framesets ever. Basically you can build almost anything from any frameset. And I love it. Because I can try A LOT of setups without changing the frame.

  33. #33
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    I just don't understand how a brand so understated could be considered overrated.
    All mountain bikes are all-mountain bikes.

  34. #34
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    Yes, overrated, you should give me yours. I have a 1x1 in lemonlime pearl, a black KM and new this year, a blue crosscheck. Very versatile, doesn't break under my lardbutt, fun to ride.

  35. #35
    get down!
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    Trek is overrated.

    Surly's are cheap and heavy and rad.
    Rudy Projects look ridiculous

    visit my blog, BEATS, BIKES & LIFE

  36. #36
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    Surly is a great company run by a lot of cool people who care and are smart enough to not believe the hype. They will take care of you. Of my nine bikes my big dummy is the favorite of all. They are a GREAT VALUE. Real bikes for the real world, but Surly will be the first to tell you they don't build race bikes. Yes, a Karate Monkey CAN be raced, but it depends what kind of racer you are and what level you compete at. If you think its a bad day if you don't make it into the top ten, then you need something "more competative"; lighter, stiffer, quicker. If you want a good value, durable, fun niner, and might just stop and drink a beer during the race, then Surly is for you. I go to the races to torture myself and destroy as many people as I can, but then I come home and snuggle the Big dummy and Pugsley. Race bikes are tools but Surlys are a lifestyle. By the way, the OGRE has more options.
    "Go that way REAL FAST, if something gets in your way... turn".

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboygrrl View Post
    I own two; a Pugsley and a Big Dummy. I sold my old mtb and now only ride these two off-road. Mostly the Pugs. But I do want a 29er, so I'm thinking of a Karate Monkey too. Yes I LIKE SURLY.
    Yaaaayyyyy! I have a Dummy and a Pugsley too! A Big Dummy is just the greatest all around bike ever! I sold two bikes after I got mine because it simply eliminated their purpose. Just installed a Civia "Market Rack" up front-sooo handy. Surly rocks but if you're thinking of a niner go to the Ogre with same geometry but lots more gear and rack and trailer options. Personally if I hadn't just ordered a Fatback I would have bought the new Salsa El Mariachi. Next year. PS-SURLY=AWESOME!!! *(Not a race bike).
    "Go that way REAL FAST, if something gets in your way... turn".

  38. #38
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    Did I just accidentally post BACK TO BACK comments?!!! Shut up about your Big Dummy Big Dummy. By the way did I mention how much I like my Big Dummy?
    "Go that way REAL FAST, if something gets in your way... turn".

  39. #39
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    Surlys are simple, solid bikes. As far as being overrated, it depends on what you are expecting from a bike. As you will see all over the web, there are plenty of very happy customers riding Surly bikes. Then, one performance junkie comes along thinking he/she is getting the bike that will dominate all else and is surprised when they realize that their Surly is just a simple, steel frame.

    If you want to ride the latest, computer designed super bike, then don't buy a Surly. I'm not trying to down play high tech bikes either. They have their place and sometimes ride a lot better than people give them credit for, which is another reason that simple bikes like Surlys seem overrated to some.

    I ride a KM and I love it. I prefer rigid, geared MTB's which is why I bought the KM over many other options. I like everything about the geometry, although the TT is a bit long for me, as I have long legs and a shorter torso. I don't see myself parting with the KM. I ride the crap and of it and it just wants more and more.

  40. #40
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    are YOU overrated???
    "You don't cross my ***** line, I don't cross your ***** line".
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  41. #41
    CS2
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelCycles View Post
    Are Surlys overrated?
    I always thought they were. Then my brother bought a Pacer. He swapped out the Tiagra triple group from his stiff as heck Trek. He's now a steel convert. I liked his build so much I bought clean Pacer frameset for my wife. As many have said, they're a nice frame for the money and have a real cult following.
    A garage full of steel frames means happiness.

  42. #42
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    1000 miles on a 10 yr old C'dale road bike vs 3100 miles on a slightly over 1 yr old cross check, nope Surly's not overrated at all. What they are is an absolute blast to ride and be on in out on the road and in the woods.
    Alea Jacta Est

  43. #43
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    Harley's are overrated but have a sort of magic. Surly has the same magic. Surly on!

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by bprsnt View Post
    Harley's are overrated but have a sort of magic. Surly has the same magic. Surly on!
    Having owned one I can concur. They're not for everyone but they do have a cult following.
    A garage full of steel frames means happiness.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by bprsnt View Post
    Harley's are overrated but have a sort of magic. Surly has the same magic. Surly on!
    It's funny you mention that because I've thought the same thing. My OD green LHT even has a passing resemblence to Harley Army motorcycles from World War 2.

    Obviously Harley's are stylish motorcycles in a classic American way ("cruiser", if you prefer). But they are not style over substance. They are eminantly practical machine - they need minimal maintenance because their engines have self-adjusting valves and they use kevlar drive-belts instead of chains. Compared to other cruisers, they handle better, can lean farther into corners, and get better gas mileage. They easy to customize and boost performance. Maybe not crotch-rocket fast, but fast enough to get in trouble on public roads. Besides, Harley still dominates dirttrack racing.

    Anyway, I've always thought that Surly has the same sort of blending of style and substance, but in a bicycle. The same thing the Chicago-built Schwinns had back in the day (and Gunnar continues to some extent now). Like Harley's, Surly's beg to be customized. Have you ever seen a bone-stock Surly complete? Surly's can be optimized for comfort or utility or speed and still retain the everyday practicality that comes from a 4130 steel frame. And like Harley, Surly embraces what it is and doesn't try to pretend to be something else. I like that. I think that's the secret to the success of both brands.

  46. #46
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    The last comment nailed it.

    I'm a relatively heavy 6 footer. I ride a KM, a jamis cross bike, and a 'vintage' (damn I'm getting old) US made trek that I ride mostly for sentimental reasons. For my money, the KM's are the best bikes going. I don't race, but do partake in a lot of XC riding. Run my monkey as a rigid SS so can't always keep up with my friends' FS bikes, but I never break down either

    I also just bought another. I was looking for a cheap, rigid, steel 29er to get my brother. But nothing in the price range screamed out at me. So I treated myself to a newish KM off eBay, and gave the old one to him. The new geometry is nice - my only regret is that I couldnt keep the old one too! This is about the highest endorsement I can imagine.

  47. #47
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    Shoot, I even race mine too. I know it's not ideal for it, given it's weight, but hey, I've passed plenty of people on bikes worth 3x what my Monkey costs. It's about the rider more with racing/riding anyway.
    -Eric
    Keeping the hardtail dream alive, one ride at a time.

  48. #48
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    My cross check is one of the few things that after desiring for a long time actually lived up to my expectations. Who would be doing the over rating? All of the ads I see for Surly are really about a mood and not about promises. The impetus for my interest in the check came from all of those that had one and what I saw them do with them. The bike sold itself.
    Disclaimer: I ride really slow.

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