Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 54
  1. #1
    CS2
    CS2 is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: CS2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,329

    Surly vs Vintage Iron

    I have to use the "VS" in a title but it's all I could think of. What advantage, if any, would Troll have over a vintage rigid MTB? I'm thinking about replacing some of my eighties bikes with one new ride. Most of the my rides are Stumpjumpers from 84 - 92. I really can't see a Troll being any better than a bike that has Prestige tubes. The only real advantage is disc brakes. Any thoughts, keep it civil?
    1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1992 Stumpjumpers. 1995 Waterford 1200, 1999 Waterford RSE, plus a garage full of steel frames.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    33
    Well, troll is designed to take a 100mm suspension fork if that's your thing. It also has those fancy dropouts, but again they may be of no value for you if you don't plan to run SS or IGH. Oh, and massive tyre clearance. It will likely be heavier than your old frame with Prestige tubes.
    Personally, I don't like the look of the new troll and 1x1 frames. I liked the old style 1x1 precisely because it looked like old school MTB.

    Marcin

  3. #3
    CS2
    CS2 is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: CS2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,329
    Quote Originally Posted by marcinski View Post
    Well, troll is designed to take a 100mm suspension fork if that's your thing. It also has those fancy dropouts, but again they may be of no value for you if you don't plan to run SS or IGH. Oh, and massive tyre clearance. It will likely be heavier than your old frame with Prestige tubes.
    Personally, I don't like the look of the new troll and 1x1 frames. I liked the old style 1x1 precisely because it looked like old school MTB.

    Marcin
    I was looking to buy a frame but it looks like Surly isn't making anything with canti or V-brake mounts anymore. I've got a lot of donor bikes to complete a frame.
    Last edited by CS2; 08-30-2012 at 02:17 PM.
    1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1992 Stumpjumpers. 1995 Waterford 1200, 1999 Waterford RSE, plus a garage full of steel frames.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    342
    Both the Troll and Ogre come with canti/v-brake mounts along with the disc brake mounts.

    My like of the Troll, which I own one, is that I can get a more comfortable ride position with the higher front end. My old '93 Trek 7000 was not so kind with low handlebar position.

  5. #5
    CS2
    CS2 is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: CS2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,329
    Quote Originally Posted by Turtle01 View Post
    Both the Troll and Ogre come with canti/v-brake mounts along with the disc brake mounts.

    My like of the Troll, which I own one, is that I can get a more comfortable ride position with the higher front end. My old '93 Trek 7000 was not so kind with low handlebar position.
    I really didn't notice the brake mounts, my apology. As for the fit late eighties and early nineties bikes did stretch you out.
    1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1992 Stumpjumpers. 1995 Waterford 1200, 1999 Waterford RSE, plus a garage full of steel frames.

  6. #6
    Obi
    Obi is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Obi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    3,189
    Ditto Turtle's feedback, add to that 1-1/8" headset, lets you run a fork, will take more abusive riding than a classic frame would hold up to.

    I personally always grab my '05 1x1 more often (like Marcin, I prefer it's looks) than my '91 Trek 950 made out of OX. I just like the feel and ride of the 1x1 better. Then again I regularly use the 950 for local grocery stuff whenever possible, mostly b/c I won't cry as much if it was to get stolen somehow.

    I think the new drop-outs look too much like a Mayan Overlord, maybe it's their homage to the coming Apocalypse?

    You have given out too much Positive Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.
    Awesome!

  7. #7
    Ariolimax columbianus
    Reputation: nativeson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    1,077
    the chainstays on older steel off the shelf mountain bikes were way too long. probably good for loaded touring, probably a little slower steering on singletrack, especially loaded. maybe slacker headtube on troll, easier dh. tube thickness could be an issue too, older frames might have good tubes, light, springy, but might not be as stout as a troll. what folks said about the versatility of dropouts, brake options, fork clearance, braze ons, are all modern advances that you'd have to customize on older frames. i've got an ogre an i'm real surprised how nice it rides. i've got an old 90's rock lobster that's seen a lot of trail and commute time too, it's nice but it's just a little outdated for me. i like a 31.8mm bar on a rigid bike.

  8. #8
    CS2
    CS2 is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: CS2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,329
    Quote Originally Posted by nativeson View Post
    the chainstays on older steel off the shelf mountain bikes were way too long. probably good for loaded touring, probably a little slower steering on singletrack, especially loaded. maybe slacker headtube on troll, easier dh. tube thickness could be an issue too, older frames might have good tubes, light, springy, but might not be as stout as a troll. what folks said about the versatility of dropouts, brake options, fork clearance, braze ons, are all modern advances that you'd have to customize on older frames. i've got an ogre an i'm real surprised how nice it rides. i've got an old 90's rock lobster that's seen a lot of trail and commute time too, it's nice but it's just a little outdated for me. i like a 31.8mm bar on a rigid bike.
    Ditto on the chainstays. One of my many framesets in waiting.

    1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1992 Stumpjumpers. 1995 Waterford 1200, 1999 Waterford RSE, plus a garage full of steel frames.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rjwall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    140
    i was thinking about the same thing. was considering either getting an ogre or troll or building up an '86 stumpjumper i have in the basement. opted to go stumpjumber mainly for cost considerations.

    the stumpy needs a new paint job, and i've been thinking about stenciling on a custom headbadge. i think i have my inspiration for it here...........

    Quote Originally Posted by Obi View Post

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    811
    Great question. Pretty valid debate. I'm a big fan of older mountain bikes. I like the looks and functionality. Especially lugged frames - just can't beat the cool factor there. So why get a Troll? Well, I think for one thing, good older mountain bikes are getting harder to find. So if you've got one, great! But for the rest of us, its less of an option. Then there's the afore mentioned technical updates like disc brakes, threadless headset, and suspension compatibility. While many older MTB's have braze-ons for racks and/or fenders, I doubt any have the special rigs for Bob trailers and Rohlfoff hubs that the Troll sports. And the last thing is the Troll's massive tire clearance, which is so massive it can easily run 650b. I suppose a few older MTBs can convert to 650b, but I doubt most.

    I think that's what I like best about the Troll - that it is a blank slate on which you can hang just about any old part in your garage - the old set of V-brakes in the parts box, cheap 26" wheels that were on sale at the shop, cranks you salvaged off the neighbor's bike he was throwing away. But at the same time, it'll fit just about any upgrade you might care to try - a 100mm suspension fork, the latest disc brakes, 650b wheels, a Rohloff to tour the world, or a Bill or Ted trailer. Maybe even all of them at once. I should get one.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    811
    Quote Originally Posted by CS2 View Post
    Ditto on the chainstays. One of my many framesets in waiting.

    Sweet frame! Bullmoose bars just look so...right.

  12. #12
    CS2
    CS2 is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: CS2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,329
    Quote Originally Posted by rjwall View Post
    i was thinking about the same thing. was considering either getting an ogre or troll or building up an '86 stumpjumper i have in the basement. opted to go stumpjumber mainly for cost considerations.

    the stumpy needs a new paint job, and i've been thinking about stenciling on a custom headbadge. i think i have my inspiration for it here...........
    WOW, that's ironic. I have an 86 Stumpy.

    1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1992 Stumpjumpers. 1995 Waterford 1200, 1999 Waterford RSE, plus a garage full of steel frames.

  13. #13
    CS2
    CS2 is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: CS2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,329
    Quote Originally Posted by bolandjd View Post
    Sweet frame! Bullmoose bars just look so...right.
    Thanks, I bought it complete. The original owner used an electric pencil to put her name on every part except the frame. I wound up selling off all the parts except the wheelset and stem/bar. I'm slowly accumulating replacements. The Sugino AT cranks are really going high on ebay these days.
    1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1992 Stumpjumpers. 1995 Waterford 1200, 1999 Waterford RSE, plus a garage full of steel frames.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    699
    I think the old mtn bikes are more analogous to the 26" wheel LHT than to the troll.

  15. #15
    CS2
    CS2 is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: CS2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,329
    Quote Originally Posted by HardyWeinberg View Post
    I think the old mtn bikes are more analogous to the 26" wheel LHT than to the troll.
    You might be right on that. There's a picture somewhere here of a LHT with huge 26" knobbies.
    1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1992 Stumpjumpers. 1995 Waterford 1200, 1999 Waterford RSE, plus a garage full of steel frames.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: seat_boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    1,661
    I picked up a Bridgestone MB2 a few years back, all original. It really brought me back to my college days, when I had a '92 Stumpjumper Pro. Low bars, long stem, toe clips, etc.

    Some things are better left in memory. I much prefer the more modern mountain biking riding position, with wider bars up near saddle height. Forget about disc brakes and suspension, the biggest improvement for me in the last 15 years have been in the riding position. Then again, maybe I'm just getting older!

    One thing nice about modern bikes-especially Surlys-is that everything is easy to work on with a few Allen wrenches and some standard parts. I picked up a '78 Fuji on Craiglist this summer. Nice lugs, low trail geo, but everything is nutted vs. Allen, and is generally more difficult to work on (for me). It really makes me appreciate my Crosscheck.

    If you want a neo-retro bike, check out the Soma Groove.

    My Bstone:


    Stumpy:


    But I like pretty much like everything about my Juice better:
    FS: Chinese carbony goodness, trade for a steel frame?

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rjwall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    140
    Quote Originally Posted by CS2 View Post
    WOW, that's ironic. I have an 86 Stumpy.

    complete with the under the chain stay brake mounts! looks great. mine is completely stripped and awaiting paint. i'm greatly looking forward to building it up.

  18. #18
    CS2
    CS2 is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: CS2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,329
    Quote Originally Posted by rjwall View Post
    complete with the under the chain stay brake mounts! looks great. mine is completely stripped and awaiting paint. i'm greatly looking forward to building it up.
    I'm looking forward to seeing it finished. Good luck on the project and let me know if you need anything.
    Last edited by CS2; 10-06-2012 at 03:46 AM.
    1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1992 Stumpjumpers. 1995 Waterford 1200, 1999 Waterford RSE, plus a garage full of steel frames.

  19. #19
    CS2
    CS2 is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: CS2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,329
    Maybe a slightly different slant to the vintage or Surly build. How about building a Surly with vintage parts? Surly bills their frames as platforms to build on. Has anyone done a CC, Pacer or any other Surly with some vintage goodness?
    1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1992 Stumpjumpers. 1995 Waterford 1200, 1999 Waterford RSE, plus a garage full of steel frames.

  20. #20
    get down!
    Reputation: appleSSeed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    2,147
    If you want retro, the Handsome Cycles XOXO is hard to beat. Sweet steel, timeless style...awesome bike.

    XOXO | Handsome Cycles
    Rudy Projects look ridiculous

    visit my blog, BEATS, BIKES & LIFE

  21. #21
    CS2
    CS2 is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: CS2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,329
    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed View Post
    If you want retro, the Handsome Cycles XOXO is hard to beat. Sweet steel, timeless style...awesome bike.

    XOXO | Handsome Cycles
    I must admit I've been tempted. I always liked the original XO1.
    Last edited by CS2; 10-08-2012 at 12:48 PM.
    1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1992 Stumpjumpers. 1995 Waterford 1200, 1999 Waterford RSE, plus a garage full of steel frames.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,476
    Quote Originally Posted by CS2 View Post
    Maybe a slightly different slant to the vintage or Surly build. How about building a Surly with vintage parts? Surly bills their frames as platforms to build on. Has anyone done a CC, Pacer or any other Surly with some vintage goodness?
    Vintage XT including the hubs..

  23. #23
    CS2
    CS2 is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: CS2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,329
    Quote Originally Posted by Saddle Up View Post
    Vintage XT including the hubs..
    Very very nice build. Considering how long the chainstays were on early 80's MTBs handling is probably silimar. It looks a lot like an 82 Stumpjumper I just picked up. Except I wouldn't be afraid to trash is. How about giving us some feedback?
    1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1992 Stumpjumpers. 1995 Waterford 1200, 1999 Waterford RSE, plus a garage full of steel frames.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,476
    Thanks. The LHT is a very unique bicycle IMO, it can do much more than tour. Mine has become my go to bike for when I'm just looking to go cruising. The cool thing is the bike doesn't seem to care what type of surface you are on, the large volume 26"tires will roll over anything. The BB needs to be higher for true mountain bike riding but the bike is more than capable on smooth single track. I really like how it feels on dirt and gravel roads. The frame is feels more stout than my Troll does, I don't feel any flex, the Troll is a noodle in comparison.

    Compared to vintage mountain bikes it wins in the riding position dept. I can never get as comfortable on a vintage mountain bike with the long top tube and short head tube. I've never had a bike that pedalled like this one, I attribute it to the loong wheelbase. Just keep peddalling and the bike will pull itself through the loose stuff. It doesn't seem to be effected by rider position either it just keeps on Truckin. If only it had 7-10mm less BB drop. I've thought about a Co-Motion Pangea but is even has more BB drop than the LHT.

    If I ever get a custom made bicycle it will be a replica of a LHT with just slightly more mountain bike oriented geometry.

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,476
    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed View Post
    If you want retro, the Handsome Cycles XOXO is hard to beat. Sweet steel, timeless style...awesome bike.

    XOXO | Handsome Cycles
    I was ready to pull the trigger on a XOXO, I had already been invoiced on a pro deal, when I was given this.

    DSC07213

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •