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Thread: Surly Troll

  1. #1
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    Surly Troll

    So the new Troll is looking pretty nice. I guess it's a 26" and appears to have braze-ons and attachment points for racks front and back. Sweet. I'll be curious to see what the geometry is. Sure would be nice if it could sport a Woodchipper h-bar. For so long I've been threatening to sell my CC frame and replace it with an LHT but now...

    I wonder if it'll be frame only or available as a complete.

    If people have more photos or info, post it here.

    --Leaf S.

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    Waiting to see photos . It seems that running a Niner carbon fork or other aftermarket forks on the Troll wouldnt alter the geometry much. A minor plus point I consider .

  3. #3
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    New Surly Pics

    Check the surly blog http://www.surlybikes.com/blog/ to see the latest Surly goodies. Our friends have been busy….

    P

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    Quote Originally Posted by dfltroll
    Sure would be nice if it could sport a Woodchipper h-bar.
    Is there a Salsa Woodchipper H-bar now? I thought it was just the dirt drop style.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dfltroll
    So the new Troll is looking pretty nice. I guess it's a 26" and appears to have braze-ons and attachment points for racks front and back. Sweet. I'll be curious to see what the geometry is. Sure would be nice if it could sport a Woodchipper h-bar. For so long I've been threatening to sell my CC frame and replace it with an LHT but now...

    I wonder if it'll be frame only or available as a complete.

    If people have more photos or info, post it here.

    --Leaf S.
    Have you seen the blog on the Surly webpage? http://www.surlybikes.com/blog/ Geo is the same as the 1x1 (which is a great thing). Looks like its just a frameset for now, but they are contemplating a complete in the future.

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    If the Troll has the same tire clearance as the current 1x1, Surly just introduced my ideal mountain bike.

  7. #7
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    It's always something with Surly

    Quote Originally Posted by bolandjd
    Have you seen the blog on the Surly webpage? http://www.surlybikes.com/blog/ Geo is the same as the 1x1 (which is a great thing). Looks like its just a frameset for now, but they are contemplating a complete in the future.
    Every year at this time of year I'm contemplating something with Surly. I get caught up in the hype of new stuff. Their products are solid and very affordable. Same with Salsa. I have a couple of bikes but nothing for heavy duty touring. Not that I plan on riding to Tierra Del Fuego or anything in the near future but I'd just like to have a sturdier bike for bike-camping. I'm heading out for a couple of days in Gifford Pinchot NF for a few days and am kind of kicking myself for not being more proactive with replacing my CC with an LHT...

    Salsa has some nice offerings also which further complicate my bike lust.

    --leaf

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX
    Is there a Salsa Woodchipper H-bar now? I thought it was just the dirt drop style.
    I'm pretty sure he was just abbreviating 'handlebar', not inferring a new shape to the 'chipper.

    Plum
    This post is in 3B, three beers and it looks good eh!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dfltroll
    Every year at this time of year I'm contemplating something with Surly. I get caught up in the hype of new stuff. Their products are solid and very affordable. Same with Salsa. I have a couple of bikes but nothing for heavy duty touring. Not that I plan on riding to Tierra Del Fuego or anything in the near future but I'd just like to have a sturdier bike for bike-camping. I'm heading out for a couple of days in Gifford Pinchot NF for a few days and am kind of kicking myself for not being more proactive with replacing my CC with an LHT...

    Salsa has some nice offerings also which further complicate my bike lust.

    --leaf
    Don't kick yourself - the Crosscheck is 90% as good a touring bike as the LHT and is more fun to ride than an LHT when not loaded down with gear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor29
    Don't kick yourself - the Crosscheck is 90% as good a touring bike as the LHT and is more fun to ride than an LHT when not loaded down with gear.
    For a two day trip, the crosscheck would be just as capable a steed as the LHT. If you're gonna be gone for months at a time, then maybe the LHT would be a better choice. That said, I've owned an LHT and it's a really nice ride, but it's best for road touring and as a reasonable commuter. Having ridden it offroad, I would say that it's definitely not the strongest choice for anything not paved.

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    Bingo

    Quote Originally Posted by FTMN
    If the Troll has the same tire clearance as the current 1x1, Surly just introduced my ideal mountain bike.
    I sent Surly an email over the weekend regarding tire clearance. Got a reply today... "should run the same as a 1x1."

    Heck yeah!

  12. #12
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    Looks like fun

    Troll

    The idea behind this sucker is a commuter, tractor, off-roader, tourer, dethmachine.

    Features:

    1x1 geometry with 100mm suspension-corrected fork

    Multi-use dropout – horizontal rear track-end type with der hanger, fender/rack eyelets, AND trailer specific mounts that will work with Surly trailer nuts (10x1mm thread)

    Disc on chainstay for rack and fender friendlieness

    Rohloff compliant

    Frameset MSRP: $495 Complete bike? Maybe.

    ETA: November



    http://surlybikes.com/blog/

  13. #13
    CS2
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    That's such a nice looking bike. Plus it's not black or gray. I especially like the blue CC.




  14. #14
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    this would be one of the better post-apocalypse bikes out there. of course, it would depend on the type of apocalypse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aljee
    this would be one of the better post-apocalypse bikes out there. of course, it would depend on the type of apocalypse.
    Ya for zombie apocalypse clearly the Big Dummy with a front mounted flame thrower and a passenger sporting twin chainsaws is the way to go.

    For a nuclear winter apocalypse I'd go with a Pugsley for floatation over the fall out.

    I think the Troll + trailer would be my killer virus hide in the woods till it's over apocalypse bike.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  16. #16
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    ha ha HA

    dummy would be a good choice, don't get me wrong. the 26in wheels are the most important aspect, if you are thinking long term. the horizon will be littered with shite magnas. ripe for the scavenge. the only thing that would take away from the dummy would be the long cables, though that could be easily solved with a diy coupler.
    as for the weapons choice....i think flame would be less effective...chainsaws would be heavy, but potentially effective, though they need fuel. the dummy has a good advantage with different brake choices as well.

    i have considered the nuclear winter aspect as well. though the pugsley would be ideal, i would have to also consider availability of tires, etc.

    i agree on troll + trailer, as long as the trailer could take 26in, or be made to take them. full racks would be good too. i like that it could be very maneuverable if you ditched the trailer, if need be.

    frankly, i think the best bet would be to proactively build a rohloff chupacabra. keep it under wraps. keep a couple spare endos or larrys. but make the bb height somewhere between 26/29in average. there could be a lot of built-in flexibility. like derailleur hanger, etc.

  17. #17
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    All good points...there ain't no easy apocalypse!...
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  18. #18
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    Anyone know what bars are on that mocked up Troll?

    As a sidenote:

    I wish Surly would stop putting brake posts on their frames...a disc-only CC would be awesome. And the 1x1 (and now the Troll) would look a lot cleaner when running 650b and 700c wheels and discs.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockhound
    I wish Surly would stop putting brake posts on their frames...a disc-only CC would be awesome. And the 1x1 (and now the Troll) would look a lot cleaner when running 650b and 700c wheels and discs.
    a crosscheck without a canti option??!!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by aljee
    this would be one of the better post-apocalypse bikes out there. of course, it would depend on the type of apocalypse.

    That's why it has the trailer attachment points.

    Buy the trailer too?

    Partially to stow your provisions, but more so to mount your defenses..


    ROFL..maybe I should post that in the Surly Marketing Thread, they could say..

    Our New Surly Trailer is: "100% Anti-Zombie Related" in both functionality as well as durability! Additionally it's guaranteed to Haul 4 Kegs for the party after the end of the world.


  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockhound
    Anyone know what bars are on that mocked up Troll?

    ...the 1x1 (and now the Troll) would look a lot cleaner when running 650b and 700c wheels and discs.
    The Troll pic from the Surly blog (shown in this thread) looks to have the Surly Open Bar. The pics from Eurobike? I don't know.

    As for brake posts, they are easy to cut off.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockhound
    Anyone know what bars are on that mocked up Troll?

    As a sidenote:

    I wish Surly would stop putting brake posts on their frames...a disc-only CC would be awesome. And the 1x1 (and now the Troll) would look a lot cleaner when running 650b and 700c wheels and discs.
    You know the posts can be removed? The lack on canti posts really limits what brakes you can run...not everybody wants to use disc brakes. It seems silly to limit the choice of brakes so significantly so you can achieve a cleaner "look".



    I have to try real hard to even notice what's left of the brake posts on my 1x1 fork once you unbolt the posts.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  23. #23
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    there are better pics of the troll's dropouts in the "changes to KM" thread... but since this is the thread for trolls I'll ask here.
    the nice big (apparently tapped) holes above the axle, are they not mounts specifically made to accept the new HD trailer?
    pics show it on a bob-style "spools on the QR rod" mount, which doesn't make sense if the frame has tailor-made drilled and tapped holes for a proprietary mount
    If steel is real then aluminium is supercallafragiliniun!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by byknuts
    there are better pics of the troll's dropouts in the "changes to KM" thread... but since this is the thread for trolls I'll ask here.
    the nice big (apparently tapped) holes above the axle, are they not mounts specifically made to accept the new HD trailer?
    pics show it on a bob-style "spools on the QR rod" mount, which doesn't make sense if the frame has tailor-made drilled and tapped holes for a proprietary mount
    I noticed that too. I figured Surly just wanted to show that their new trailer can work on (almost) any bike, and not just the Troll that has a special mount built into the dropout.

    That's what I'm guessing...

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    Hey Vikb,
    Did you have to heat the brake bosses to get them loose? The one time I tried wrenching the brake post out of a Surly fork (no heat), I REALLY cranked on it and it still wouldn't crack loose.

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    Like the look of the new Troll......I assume this is an answer to the Fargo. I am contemplating a Fargo at the moment but I may have to look into the Troll a little more first. I would like to see 29" wheels though.

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    Thank you, thank you! This is what I've been looking for. Key features for me: steel, canti/v brake mounts ( to those who say they're useless), IGH friendly, 100mm fork compatible, etc, etc.

  28. #28
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    surly's site now has the troll and the trailer (along with the rest of the new stuff) posted.
    those ARE heavy-duty trailer-specific tapped holes on the dropouts!
    If steel is real then aluminium is supercallafragiliniun!

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    will the troll take 29" wheels ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by glass69
    will the troll take 29" wheels ?
    It doesn't appear meant to, and from the pictures doesn't look like there's clearance, at least for the rear wheel. Why not just a KM or a CC?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FTMN
    Hey Vikb,
    Did you have to heat the brake bosses to get them loose? The one time I tried wrenching the brake post out of a Surly fork (no heat), I REALLY cranked on it and it still wouldn't crack loose.
    Brake bosses should have threadlocker of some sort on them, so yes, you may need a little heat. I'd try a longer lever first, though.

  32. #32
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    Mistake...

    Glass69,

    The Troll might fit 29ers like the 1x1 does, but I don't recommend it. Those frames are designed for 26" wheels and even though bigger wheels will fit, the bikes geo gets convoluted and they just don't ride like they should. This is coming from experience.

    I'd recommend 650b wheels in the Troll/1x1 if you want bigger hoops, but if you want 29" wheels then just get a frame designed for them.

    I have 2 1x1 frames converted to 29ers and I wish I hadn't butchered perfectly good frames to get my 29"/1x1 fix. My KMonk works just fine.

    Just my thoughts before you lay down cash for a bike that's not really what you want

    Pat

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by fixed1313
    Like the look of the new Troll......I assume this is an answer to the Fargo. I am contemplating a Fargo at the moment but I may have to look into the Troll a little more first. I would like to see 29" wheels though.
    I'm a little curious. Why would you compare the Troll to the Fargo? They don't seem to be very similar to me.
    My bike blog: www.yetirides.com

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outsider
    I'm a little curious. Why would you compare the Troll to the Fargo? They don't seem to be very similar to me.
    My guess is that it's because they are both true mountain bikes that have rack mounts front and back. The question is, does the Troll handle as well as the Fargo with full packs front and back.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outsider
    I'm a little curious. Why would you compare the Troll to the Fargo? They don't seem to be very similar to me.
    As stated above, the Fargo is a mtb designed for long distance touring, lots of mounts for waterbottles, racks and fenders. If you look at the Troll it kinda looks like that is what Surly is going for also with the rack mounts, the frames even look similar. I have not compared specs at all (not sure Surly even has them up yet). If this is Surly's intent I am surprised that they don't have more mount options, I can rationalize the 26" wheels but 29" wheels would be nice also. I will be in the market for just such a bike in a little while and will have to keep an eye on this one. I have seen the new Fargo in pics and I am not keen on the new color and the Sram/STI shifters package. I am a big fan of the XT/ bar end setup. Just my 2 cents.........looking forward to see how Surly markets this new model.

  36. #36
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    Ok, I guess I just saw the differences: The Fargo is designed for a drop bar and has 29" wheels.
    My bike blog: www.yetirides.com

  37. #37
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    The 2011 line, including the Troll, is up on Surly's website... specs, frame highlights, pics, geometry, etc. Check it out.

  38. #38
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    When I saw the pics and read that the Troll is based on a 100mm fork, I figured it was simply an Instigator fork with rack mounts. Just noticed today that it's a completely new fork. In fact Surly now has three 100mm equivalent forks... the Troll, the Instigator, and the 100mm version of the 1x1 fork. All three have different rake measurements and axle-to-crown lengths. Interesting...

    I wonder how different the Troll will ride, compared to the new 1x1, given that they have different rakes and a-c lengths. I thought I read somewhere that they tried to keep the new 1x1's handling similar to the old 1x1, just with a taller front end.

    Plenty of Surly options out there for people looking for a 26er rigid fork.

  39. #39
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    One of my customers wants his to be in a black color and the wife's left orange. I figured why not share this pic with you all in case anyone else would like to see this as a production color. Reminder, Surly is cool with re-powdering your frame any color in the spectrum, just as they say "No pizza ovens for the curing" that way the frame quality and structure aren't jeopardized.


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    Rockhound, go check out Salsa's stuff. They're seriously hating on rim brakes these days. I actually had Canti mounts ADDED to my Fargo! So glad to see that Surly still has a mind for versatility, and as it has been stated the bosses are removable.

    If the Troll were a 29er it'd be in danger of making me loose faith in my Fargo.

    The track end + der hanger should be industry standard. Not sure about everything else though, all useful but it's getting mighty crowded back there. How long until they start messing with Paragon style sliding dropouts?

    The full cable guides are excellent, and routed under the top tube? it's starting to look like one of those lifted Jeeps with the snorkel exhaust deal. In other words- intense.

    What I want to know is what's with the through-blade rack mount at the bottom of the fork? Should we be expecting something new that'll utilize that thing? I hope so.

    I guess they must've been afraid of making it a blatant response to the Fargo. Why else leave it at two bottle bosses? Sure six is ridiculous but if this thing is supposed to be touring ready three or four isn't impractical. I'd like to see somebody put a bottle boss on top of the top tube, right down by the seat tube.

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    I think 2 bosses makes sense; if someone wants 4 or 6, they should just get a camelbak.

    I do wonder about adding a petcock to the through-blade eyelets at the bottom though, so you could use a funnel to fill the fork with fuel from the upper eyelets and then drain it to your stove from the lower...

  42. #42
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    I have three Camelbaks. One has only a small bladder, one a 100 oz. bladder with a small pocket, one a 100 oz. bladder and lotsa room for gear.

    Last august I ran with the second one and two bottles and ran dry in rural WV. That was at the bottom of an eleven mile hill.

    A month ago I ran with the big one and no bottles. I was delivering a bike to a friend 200 miles away so I figured I'd just pack all my gear into the pack and be golden. I quickly decided that riding with the pack on the rear rack was a much better idea and suddenly I had to stop and dismount every time I wanted a drink.

    Camelbaks are useful but they aren't the holy grail. Plus you can always leave the bottle bosses cageless if you don't need them. It's far more difficult to retrofit more if they are needed. The Troll, in my mind, is all about ability and versatility. So why not go for it?

    The idea of using the frame cavity itself is interesting. I store spokes in the seattube but fuel in the fork? It would have to be sealed at the steerer and have no drain holes, and there would have to be NO chance of it somehow igniting in there. Seems like it might be more work than it's worth. Then again there were more than a few old mopeds that used their frames as gas tanks. So maybe it's not that unprecedented. I still think the racks they're likely prototyping right now will likely be more exciting though!

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by HardyWeinberg
    I think 2 bosses makes sense; if someone wants 4 or 6, they should just get a camelbak.
    ...
    I find it much more comfortable to ride without a backpack or camelback and if you use a full sized frame bag, the extra bottle holders on the fork come in real handy.
    My bike blog: www.yetirides.com

  44. #44
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    I don't see the Troll as in the same category as the Fargo - the Fargo looks like something I'd need to ride through Appalachia, the Troll looks like something I'd want to ride to the gas station for charcoal briquettes and then down to the woods for the weekend. There's overlap, but I still see them as pretty different, so I can't really fault two bottle mounts.

  45. #45
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    They're totally different. Flat bar to drop bar, 26 to 29, etc.

    But they're both prominent examples of the burgeoning "everything" bike. They're both designed as touring capable mountain bikes (or perhaps ATB has become a useful term again?).

    They both inspire conversation of post-apocalyptic living-off-the-bike type goodness.

    That's why I compare them, and what I compare them on.

  46. #46
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    [/arguing] mmmmmkay...let's not get all feisty over this.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manzanita
    Rockhound, go check out Salsa's stuff. They're seriously hating on rim brakes these days. I actually had Canti mounts ADDED to my Fargo! So glad to see that Surly still has a mind for versatility, and as it has been stated the bosses are removable.
    I know you can do it just the same with or without canti posts, but I like the versatility of running 26 and 700c wheels (or 650b, if I had some) on a single frame...which is why disc brakes are great.

    A wheel change can instantly change your bike from a mtb, to a gravel road cruiser to an asphalt machine...and it can be done and still have the same diameter wheel and tire, thus keeping the handling relatively the same.

    Think 26x2.35 mtb = 700x32, not 26x2.35 mtb > 26x1 slicks.

    That and your rims no longer serve as wear items.

    Granted you don't have to use the canti posts, I'd just prefer they not be there...that's all. Unless of course you made a rack that utilized them (like the Salsa Casseroll does this year).

  48. #48
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    Some of you know that I've had some seriously torrid affairs with some Surly frames the past few years, and seeing this Troll makes me curious...

    ...but I'm leaning towards a Ti El Mariachi mated to a 2011 Fargo fork. Granted, it's not a direct comparison...

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by mangoman
    Some of you know that I've had some seriously torrid affairs with some Surly frames the past few years, and seeing this Troll makes me curious...

    ...but I'm leaning towards a Ti El Mariachi mated to a 2011 Fargo fork. Granted, it's not a direct comparison...
    nice, i am saving for a complete steel El Mar. hopefully it will happen with the next batch this spring. i am sure you saw the new Ti Fargo, ay?

  50. #50
    Lighten up.
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    I did see that. And in this spoiled American life, I've been 'struggling' with whether to go Fargo or El Mar. Looking for a do-it-all bike, which is why I'm trolling the Troll thread. It's a tough decision since I'd have to sell my Trucker to finance a Ti version of either frame.

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