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Thread: Surly Troll

  1. #1101
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    love that purple, can't wait to get mine!

  2. #1102
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveJfromtheSwitch View Post
    love that purple, can't wait to get mine!
    Yeah it's a sweet color!
    instagram: _skinnytwig #justpedal

  3. #1103
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    We did this Troll build for a customer who was looking for a rugged travel bike. We had to get the frame modified with a belt drive splitter and S&S couplers. We'd never done S&S couplers on a Troll, but everything came together perfectly. Pretty cool that the Troll dropouts are Rohloff-specific.

    The Monkey Lab: Surly Troll with S&S couplers, belt drive, and Rohloff SPEEDHUB 500/14

    Surly Troll-green-troll_whole-bike-main.jpg

  4. #1104
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    Quote Originally Posted by CycleMonkey View Post
    We did this Troll build for a customer who was looking for a rugged travel bike. We had to get the frame modified with a belt drive splitter and S&S couplers. We'd never done S&S couplers on a Troll, but everything came together perfectly. Pretty cool that the Troll dropouts are Rohloff-specific.

    The Monkey Lab: Surly Troll with S&S couplers, belt drive, and Rohloff SPEEDHUB 500/14

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Green Troll_whole bike main.jpg 
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    Drool.

  5. #1105
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    Hey CycleMonkey,

    That's a fine looking Troll that you've built up for hopefully a very happy customer.

    What size are those Schwalbe Marathon Extremes?

    Thanks,
    Dan

  6. #1106
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    Quote Originally Posted by CycleMonkey View Post
    We did this Troll build for a customer who was looking for a rugged travel bike. We had to get the frame modified with a belt drive splitter and S&S couplers. We'd never done S&S couplers on a Troll, but everything came together perfectly. Pretty cool that the Troll dropouts are Rohloff-specific.

    The Monkey Lab: Surly Troll with S&S couplers, belt drive, and Rohloff SPEEDHUB 500/14

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Green Troll_whole bike main.jpg 
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    Yeah, a cool Troll I guess. But for the massive coin involved here I would have advised the customer to just go for a Co-Motion Pangea instead:

    Co-Motion Pangea Rohloff

    The Co-Motion frame is purpose-designed and factory built with S&S and Gates belt fittings from the get-go. Excellent Reynolds tube-set that rings like a fine bell when tapped with your finger. And some of the most stunningly beautiful paint finishes you will ever behold on a bicycle.

    I love my Troll, but I love it for its proletariat nature. Putting one together will all this expensive make-over work is like trying to turn Miley Cyrus into Juliette Binochet. (Or something...)

  7. #1107
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    The Miley comment deserves a bunch of positive rep. IMO the Pangea is more like a LHT, and of course there is the travel version, the Trucker Deluxe pre built to travel. Agreed Co-Motion does build beautiful bikes. If Surly built a bike with Surly Cro-Mo and Co-Motion built a bike with Reynolds 725 and the geometry was exactly the same how much difference do you think we would feel in the ride? Different yes, better though???

    Can't Co-Motion find an seat tube in a common size, 29.8mm?, is that for real?

  8. #1108
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    Why does my 18" Troll have all these rack-mounts, when the chainstays are too short to use panniers without hitting my heels as I pedal? I'm just curious. (these are with the smallest Ortlieb "City Front" panniers - in the rear)

    EDIT - I got it all worked out. Just barely clearing my heels by about 10mm, but it's working. Just went for a ride in the wet snow (warm enough to melt as it touches the ground, leaving puddles), and I LOVE MY FENDERS! I always forget how much I love them, and then I remember when I'm the only person in sight riding through the slush and sleet.
    Last edited by Gritter; 11-26-2013 at 05:07 PM.

  9. #1109
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    looking at co-motion, i want that pathfinder package! for my troll and ogre!

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  10. #1110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gritter View Post
    Why does my 18" Troll have all these rack-mounts, when the chainstays are too short to use panniers without hitting my heels as I pedal? I'm just curious. (these are with the smallest Ortlieb "City Front" panniers - in the rear)
    I have a Tubus rack mounted to the rear of my Troll and over the past four years have used three different sets of panniers and have no issue with my heels hitting the bags. This is on a 22" Troll and I have size 11.5 US feet.

  11. #1111
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharalds View Post
    I have a Tubus rack mounted to the rear of my Troll and over the past four years have used three different sets of panniers and have no issue with my heels hitting the bags. This is on a 22" Troll and I have size 11.5 US feet.
    Which model Tubus Rack is that? Does the 22" frame provide anymore clearance? (the Surly website lists all sizes with 16.5" chainstays)

    I guess I should have mentioned that I'm running 180mm cranks, which only adds to my problem. I wear size 11 - 11.5 shoes.

  12. #1112
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    Quote Originally Posted by iphilrive View Post
    looking at co-motion, i want that pathfinder package! for my troll and ogre!

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    I can't find it on the site, a link?

  13. #1113
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    dont' want to get off track but i bought a charging set up from a guy in Australia, he does custom 3d printed light boxes matched up to a 4 or 6 cell AA switchable battery box with a 1000lm headlight, awesome self sustaining goodness.

    kLite.com.au Dynamo Lighting Systems. (december special is free shipping worldwide)

  14. #1114
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    Quote Originally Posted by vitaly66 View Post
    Yeah, a cool Troll I guess. But for the massive coin involved here I would have advised the customer to just go for a Co-Motion Pangea instead:

    Co-Motion Pangea Rohloff

    The Co-Motion frame is purpose-designed and factory built with S&S and Gates belt fittings from the get-go. Excellent Reynolds tube-set that rings like a fine bell when tapped with your finger. And some of the most stunningly beautiful paint finishes you will ever behold on a bicycle.

    I love my Troll, but I love it for its proletariat nature. Putting one together will all this expensive make-over work is like trying to turn Miley Cyrus into Juliette Binochet. (Or something...)

    Good idea. We actually considered a Pangea, but he was specific about wanting a mountain bike geometry. Even with the modifications, this frame still costs half the price of the equivalent Pangea.

  15. #1115
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    Thanks Dan. I think the tires are 2.0 inch. Our customer brought them in separately.

  16. #1116
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    Could somebody with a Troll and some reasonably big tires [2.3"+] measure from the ground to the center of your BB for me please? Thanks!
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  17. #1117
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    The center of my BB to ground with Scwalbe Big Apples 26 x 2.15 (or 559 x 55) is 11 and 11/16" or 296.8625mm. (11.6875")



    I figure 2.3" tires would add about 3.81mm to that measurement, so 300.6725mm or 11.8375 inches.

    Hope that helps . . .

  18. #1118
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    With 2.5" Nevegals it was 11.75", with my 2.1" 650b Nevegals it's 12".
    Last edited by Saddle Up; 11-27-2013 at 02:34 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddle Up View Post
    With 2.5" Nevegals it was 11.75", with my 2.1" 650b Nevegals it's 12".
    What is the internal width of the rim? Because it affects to the height of the tyre.

  20. #1120
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    Thanks for the BB heights....
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  21. #1121
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    Finished the troll for the little troll. One small problem is that i need a 10 speed rear derailleur that will work with microshift shifters anyone know of anything?

    Attachment 850569
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  22. #1122
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    My Troll with CST Cyclops Pro 2.4" tires on SunRingle MTX33 rims has a center bottom bracket of 11.75". I think my Conti Trail King 2.4" tires have almost the same exact height or a smidgen taller.

  23. #1123
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    pic not working for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by iphilrive View Post
    Finished the troll for the little troll. One small problem is that i need a 10 speed rear derailleur that will work with microshift shifters anyone know of anything?

    Attachment 850569

  24. #1124
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveJfromtheSwitch View Post
    pic not working for me.
    yeah for some reason it didn't want me to upload in both ogre and troll forums. and i deleted it but i guess it hasn't been deleted yet? i shall have more pictures up here pretty soon, suppose to be like 50* here Sunday!
    instagram: _skinnytwig #justpedal

  25. #1125
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    My new Troll!
    I bought this frameset and got most of the parts from my Cannondale F400 transferred over, swapped over the Easton EA70 seatpost from my Thorn, along with an Easton EA70 stem I had in my parts box. I also bought a new Brooks Team Pro saddle, and a Hope headset and Hope seatpost clamp, to go with the Hope hubs.
    Oh, and the Marathon Extremes are 2.25"


  26. #1126
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    Pseudo fattie.

    Surly Troll-img_1726.jpg
    Got out over the Thanksgiving weekend in Maryland with the Troll. Rolled surprisingly well in around 3" or so. Good times.

  27. #1127
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    you seem well equipped with tools, and still you have the LBS press in your headset rather than the wood press method on youtube. I take it you think this is best. Ill look into having this done too when I get a troll next spring

  28. #1128
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    I'm I crazy in thinking a rear rack will work on the front of a Troll? I was thinking Tubus Vega evo.

  29. #1129
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    Quote Originally Posted by alaskadude View Post
    you seem well equipped with tools, and still you have the LBS press in your headset rather than the wood press method on youtube. I take it you think this is best. Ill look into having this done too when I get a troll next spring
    If this is directed at me, I have never pressed in a headset. I'm sure I could do it, but really I am lazy and I like to give my shop business. Good luck with your build!

  30. #1130
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    Takes <5 minutes to press in the headset cups using the proper tool, and it goes in straight every time. IMO it's not worth the aggro of using hammers and/or blocks of wood, but I have friends where I used to work who'll let me use their press, so YMMV.

    Everything else except for headset/BB cutting and facing tools I have, but these are only needed once per bike so not worth the large number of dollars IMHO.

  31. #1131
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    Also, if you're pressing in your own headset, there's a good chance you're not facing your headtube either... and that's and often overlooked step that's kinda important, especially if you're going to be using a high quality, machined headset (like a King for example).

  32. #1132
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    Coming from the automotive industry, Bike mechanic myths, superstitions and paranoia always amuse me.

    While it is a GREAT idea to have those tools for older frames that may be corroded, or to clear a headtube of imperfections (paint drips, Weld splatter) most modern framesets really don't need to be faced.

    When I started into the Straggler, I was shocked to see that the bike had already been reamed, faced and even had a chase done on the BB shell before ED coating. the cheapo Cane Creek 10 pressed in without a worry, the Chris King the frame will one day get is the same cartridge bearing design that most threadless headsets are. I won't be facing my frame for that either. We're talking a tolerance of a few microns on a device that will not be seeing enough stress to warrant that additional precision.

    Not that it's bad to clear some paint off your frame and expose that steel to oxidation for the sake of precision. If it makes you feel elite, do it. but from a mechanical perspective there is just nothing that demanding about what a headset does. it handles a slight rotation under a load of a few hundred pounds. that's not all that hard.

  33. #1133
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    Your results may vary, of course. I say, go ahead and have your shop mechanic do it, as well as your BB shell. Why have a nice precision headset or BB if you're just going to press it onto steel that may have inconsistent coatings of paint or powdercoat globbed up where it makes contact? I don't do it to "feel elite"... I do it because I've owned about 7 Surly frames over the past decade, and, while they are quality frames, I've seen some that definitely needed a facing right out of the box. Maybe things are different now, but none of mine were faced out of the boxIt's more about the peace of mind that everything is making contact with the snuggest fit possible.

  34. #1134
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    Just measure inner diameters with some dial-calipers and make sure everything is within spec. The specs are listed in the Chris King Headset Instructioins. Check all over the place, make sure it isn't ovalized anywhere or anything.

    A straight edge or a square can check any discrepancies to see if it needs faced, and a visual inspection or feeling should indicate any paint globules or any slag to interfere with a tight fit.

    If it's out of spec, get it faced. The Surly frames I've encountered have all been perfectly within spec.

  35. #1135
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    Like I said, If it does have inconsistencies, do it.

    Mine had zero inconsistencies. My soma on the other hand needed seat tube reaming and several chasings of the BB. but Grooves are bit old fashioned and Soma kind of... does their own thing. neither frame needed facing.

    In spite of the fact that My Surly and Soma are both made by maxway, Surly seems to have ordered more frame prep than Soma.

    I definitely agree that Chris Kings are Precision. in the sense that they are built from excellent parts with fabulous quality control by a company that knows what they're doing.

    But it's still a cup that holds a cartridge bearing, that experiences very light loads compared to the (high) quality of metal it is fabricated from. I've blown up about a half dozen Bottom brackets in my time, because THOSE bearings are seeing a lot of abuse. a lot of rotation, exposure to elements and heat occur there. The only people I know of that have headset issues either have very, VERY cheap headsets or are doing the kind of riding where they leave the ground often. And as for that, a removing less than a millimeter of paint is not going to make an abused headset last any longer.

    Snug is not a term engineers use. It's not a word I can say when installing something on a customers car. There is no ideal torque spec for a headset cup. IN is the official tolerance for a headset cup. If you see flaws in a headtube. feel free to fix them. but it's a bicycle not a rocket ship. Fact of the matter is most modern framesets don't need it.

    Also, I live in the Pacific Northwest. Rust is an insane issue here, I'm willing to sacrifice miniscule tolerances to keep as much of my steel covered as possible. seeing that I ride mainly commuters, my headset see's little abuse. It's why I was willing to put a cane creek 10 on at all. the thing has a PLASTIC bearing race. (easily upgraded for about 12.99) Someone who see's a lot of off road on their bike may be able to share a story where an unfaced headtube caused failure, I've never heard one. but I'm more than happy to be proven wrong.

    On a side note, this Straggler is my first Surly frame. And it needed NOTHING out of the box, maybe it's the higher cost (550 to the Cross checks 440ish) but I honestly didn't expect the frameset to be this nice. nothing needed work. not even the BB. and I expect to chase those!

  36. #1136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agwan View Post
    Coming from the automotive industry, Bike mechanic myths, superstitions and paranoia always amuse me.
    [sigh] So us plebs from the bike industry know nothing because we don't work in the car biz, eh? I don't think anyone has said that anything needs to be done 100% of the time, but sometimes it does, and it usually costs nothing to check while the frame is still bare. Not doing whatever-it-is may result in sub-optimal results, premature wear, etc. Of course, if you're sure nothing will ever go wrong, good luck to you!

  37. #1137
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    Like I said, I check. I think it wise to CHECK. Because I check, I don't often see a need to do it.

    And I've been in the bike industry even longer than the car industry, The car industry definitely has customers that aren't willing to take the abuse from manufacturers that cycling customers seem to take. every professional is held a lot more responsible than I see in this industry.

    Do tell, how can a headset cup being misaligned by a micron cause premature wear? even though most cups have a great deal of side to side play between the cartridge bearing and the wall of the cup to adapt for this very possibility.

    I've seen very old, threaded headsets with loose ball bearings that definitely needed the most surgical of treatment to have a long life. that level of precision makes sense there. but threadless, cartridge bearing headsets built in the modern age? I've yet to see proof that it is more than tradition on those headsets.

    the very design of those headsets makes prepping a flawless headtube pointless.

    I love how people on this forum use "Plebs" as in Plebeian. It's just such a junior high school word.

    I'd call you Troglodytes, If not for the hilarious polarizations felt on literally every single point of minutiae that can be argued.

  38. #1138
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    Sorry I brought up the apparent facing tool "scam" that the industry is forcing upon us sheep. Can we get back to looking at Troll photos now?

  39. #1139
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    Keep on putting words in my mouth, and you will keep on looking like an idiot.

    And having taken the headsets out of hundreds of "industry" frames as well as thousands (okay, maybe closer to A thousand.)of Wal-Mart frames. The industry seems to place less importance on facing then I do.

    At least I'm happy to do it when it's needed.

  40. #1140
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    I like turtles.
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

  41. #1141
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfltroll View Post
    I like turtles.
    Agreed. I just can't stand those elitists who only go for tortoisii, It's like get with the times. Turtles are Ninjas.

  42. #1142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agwan View Post
    Keep on putting words in my mouth, and you will keep on looking like an idiot.
    Name-calling. Nice. Well, given the topic of this thread, it looks like you're in the right place.

    At least I'm not the one who just wrote approximately 15 paragraphs on facing, when it's probably not going to sway anyone here in either direction. Good job!

  43. #1143
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    Hey guys, wanna talk about Troll frames? I do. Would like to hear the experiences of those who hooked up trailers. I plan on dragging children behind me and am under the impression this bike is great for that.

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    ^Me also. I'm seriously considering the Bill and making my Troll into a hauler.

  45. #1145
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcitizen1 View Post
    Hey guys, wanna talk about Troll frames? I do. Would like to hear the experiences of those who hooked up trailers. I plan on dragging children behind me and am under the impression this bike is great for that.
    My Troll was built up as a "Tractor Bike" and it's used to haul most anything, anywhere. I have it geared really low, with huge brakes, for that reason. Sorry about the crappy pics, I should probably snap a few outside, in the sun.





    I don't usually haul the entire ensemble of bags, but that's what it looks like in full-hauler-mode, plus I have the TED Trailer to pull behind all that as well.

    Coming from the single-wheeled B.O.B. Trailer, I LOVE the TED. No more balancing all the trailer weight, making my bike squirly with heavier loads. The TED seems wide, but it's narrower than my handlebars, and saddlebags, and fits wherever I point it.

    (NOTE: The Tubus Duo Racks up front cleared just fine with the 203mm Avid Caliper Adapter - just moves it away enough to clear everything.)

    I also tried the trailer on the Ogre, but the Troll feels "tighter" all around, and I prefer it for hauling heavy loads. It might have something to do with the smaller diameter of the wheels, but it's also the geometry of the frame, making the ride stiffer, but still compliant. I find this configuration superb for my "cargo" bike.

  46. #1146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gritter View Post
    what handlebar bag is that? and about how much could it hold? ie: spare clothes/beer/food/small grocery bag?
    instagram: _skinnytwig #justpedal

  47. #1147
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    Quote Originally Posted by iphilrive View Post
    what handlebar bag is that? and about how much could it hold? ie: spare clothes/beer/food/small grocery bag?
    Ortlieb Ultimate Plus #5. I grabbed it on "close-out" at UC: Looks like they have one left.

    It's larger than the trunk-bag, but it's not all "tight, tight, tight" like the trunk. The mount system is more floppy than the trunk mounts. I wouldn't put more than a pound or two in the h-bar -bag. Maybe 5 lbs?

    (Max Load for H-Bar Bag is 6.61387 or 3 kg)

    I removed that "gas tank" bag, because I hit it with my knees when I stand and mash, and I didn't like the way it looked.

    Surly Revelate = 8.2

    Ortlieb Bar Bag = 9L

    Ortlieb Trunk-Bag = 8L

    Ortlieb Fronts = 25L

    Ortlieb Rears = 40L

    TOTAL = 90.2L

    Just the Ortliebs = 82L


    (not pictured) TED Trailer = 300 lbs max load capacity

  48. #1148
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcitizen1 View Post
    Hey guys, wanna talk about Troll frames? I do. Would like to hear the experiences of those who hooked up trailers. I plan on dragging children behind me and am under the impression this bike is great for that.
    Yeah, I should stop feeding the troll and actually talk about the Troll. I have one thing that's irked me about a lot of Surlys, I actually emailed them about it. They make so many tiny variations on rigid 29ers and 26ers, I mean the Krampus and ECR are SO close to being Karate Monkeys and Ogres (Don't explain, I get how they differ)

    Why can't there be a NON suspension corrected Surly MTB? I was told they don't think they'd sell, but given how few trolls I see with suspension forks, and how many Cross Checks I've seen on the trail, dedicated rigid bikes are clearly still in demand.

    They got back to me and told me they dream of one day doing, at the very least a special run exactly like that. like the old 1x1, but updated.

    I can't be the only one who drools at the idea of a troll or 1x1 without suspension correction, right?

  49. #1149
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    Here's a few recent pics of my Troll. I shot these a few months ago after I mounted a 2.7 Nevegal on the front. I bought my Troll to use as a bikepacking rig for the trails around here, but also to serve as my default mountain bike. I don't really do anything too technical, and my riding style is fairly laid-back, so the Troll fits the bill perfectly. Depending on the situation, I swap back and forth between the sprung Brooks saddle (which is usually on my 1x1) and the Specialized Avatar. My bikepacking gear consists of a Revelate Viscacha, Porcelain Rocket frame bag, Revelate gas tank, and a couple of Anything cages. Everything else fits in my Osprey pack, and the small front rack. Early next year, I'll be switching out the front rack for the Revelate Harness.

    Surly Troll-troll1.jpgSurly Troll-troll2.jpgSurly Troll-troll3.jpg

  50. #1150
    Tires
    Reputation: Gritter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    525

    With and Without Luggages (GIF)

    Everything except the frame bag is quick-release.


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