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Thread: Surly Straggler

  1. #1
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    Surly Straggler

    Holy crap, this is what I've been waiting for. Basically a disc Cross Check? The rear dropouts are nutty!

    This will replace my CC, 100%

    Surly Straggler-surly-bikes-saddle-drive-7.jpg

    Surly Straggler-999987_498717473544604_2074201417_n.jpgSurly Straggler-img_1114.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Surly Straggler-surly-bikes-saddle-drive-12.jpg  


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    Needs two mounting points on the rear for rack and fenders, but other than that looks pretty awesome.

    EDIT: NVM, I see in this pic that there is another point on the seat stay further up. Nice!

    "Got everything you need?"

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    Yep, this bike is looking damm near perfect!

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    That subdued green is so much nicer than the sparkle pony purple.

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    (Jumping up and down) I want sparkle pony, I want sparkle pony!

    Anyway, it will be a good combo with my purple Troll.

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    I like the reported taller head tube, but otherwise I have no interest in this over my CC. The CC's dropouts allow easy single speed gear changes, without adjusting the brakes, which look like a big PITA with this frame. Then again, I don't really see the need for discs outside wet or snowy mountain biking.

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    If I was looking for a brand new bike, I might consider this... the biggest reason for the disc brakes to me has nothing to do with breaking power... but it's easier to put the wheel in and out with discs than my Tektro 720 canti's. I need to loosten the straddle wire or deflate my tire to remove the wheel with my breaks. They work well, but it's a bit of a hassle. But not enough reason to replace it. Besides, I LOVE my Blark Due CC. The CC has had some of Surly's best colors over the years.

    Now the new blue Pugs I have my eye on..... or maybe a champagne moonlander.

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    I already said this in a different thread, but its worth repeating. The Cross Check is perfect just the way it is. So I don't really see what this bike brings, except that it sates the disc-crazy masses that have been bugging Surly for a bike like this for years. Admittedly, it is a pretty bike and I'd totally get one over the Vaya or the Disc Trucker, if I ever need a heavier and more complicated braking system than one I currently have. And if it gets more people on Surly's, I'm all for it.
    Surly Cross Check: fat tire roadie
    Surly LHT: Kid hauler
    On One Inbred: SS 26er

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    Quote Originally Posted by bolandjd View Post
    I already said this in a different thread, but its worth repeating. The Cross Check is perfect just the way it is. So I don't really see what this bike brings, except that it sates the disc-crazy masses that have been bugging Surly for a bike like this for years. Admittedly, it is a pretty bike and I'd totally get one over the Vaya or the Disc Trucker, if I ever need a heavier and more complicated braking system than one I currently have. And if it gets more people on Surly's, I'm all for it.
    Yeah but... IT'S PINK AND SPARKLY!!!

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    Gonna be near impossible for me to call this the Straggler instead of the disc Cross Check!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bolandjd View Post
    I already said this in a different thread, but its worth repeating. The Cross Check is perfect just the way it is.
    If you don't need Discs so the rest of the world doesn't need them too?
    This a thread *for* and not *against* the Straggler. Go home and stroke your Cross Check.

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    I'm excited to see a geometry chart. I loved my old CC but it never fit me quite right. Now that I know what I'm looking for, if this is within my ranges, I might be interested. A forth Surly in my garage wouldn't trigger any sort of "intervention" issues would it?
    Jason
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAGI410 View Post
    I'm excited to see a geometry chart. I loved my old CC but it never fit me quite right. Now that I know what I'm looking for, if this is within my ranges, I might be interested. A forth Surly in my garage wouldn't trigger any sort of "intervention" issues would it?
    X2 on being super curious a out how the straggler geo compares to the CC. Really hoping for that longer head tube.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JAGI410 View Post
    A forth Surly in my garage wouldn't trigger any sort of "intervention" issues would it?
    The desire to own 4 or more Surlys is perfectly normal, I wouldn’t worry about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bolandjd View Post
    I already said this in a different thread, but its worth repeating. The Cross Check is perfect just the way it is. So I don't really see what this bike brings, except that it sates the disc-crazy masses that have been bugging Surly for a bike like this for years. Admittedly, it is a pretty bike and I'd totally get one over the Vaya or the Disc Trucker, if I ever need a heavier and more complicated braking system than one I currently have. And if it gets more people on Surly's, I'm all for it.
    Its a good option for those of us in wet climates where disc brakes shine...don't get me wrong some salamander kool-stop pads work pretty good. Plus you can't beat the simplicity. I still havent replaced my CC....it's in the basement bent in half from an F-250. If I don't pick up a Straggler it will be that dark grey CC with some Paul canti's and dingle speed.

    Quote Originally Posted by JAGI410 View Post
    I'm excited to see a geometry chart. I loved my old CC but it never fit me quite right. Now that I know what I'm looking for, if this is within my ranges, I might be interested. A forth Surly in my garage wouldn't trigger any sort of "intervention" issues would it?
    Nope, its a good whole number so all bikes have a stable mate.
    Fargo Ti + Moonlander + Necro Pug + Nature Boy

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    Quote Originally Posted by DerBergschreck View Post
    If you don't need Discs so the rest of the world doesn't need them too?
    This a thread *for* and not *against* the Straggler. Go home and stroke your Cross Check.
    Dude, relax. I never said I was against the Straggler. In fact, I recall writing that it is a pretty bike and I'm all for it if it gets more people on Surly's. I know why people like disc brakes. I just think they are overestimated, especially on non-mountain bikes. But that's a discussion for a different thread. A Disc Check just strikes me as kind of like a Ford Mustang with automatic transmission - looks the same but dumbed down for the masses. That's my initial reaction. Sorry if its not fanboy enough. But I hope Surly sells lots of Stragglers, and I hope that Stragglers win lots of gravel and CX races. And since Straggler has some geometry changes, I can be smuggly satisfied that the Straggler isn't really a Disc Check anyway. Okay, I'm going to go stroke my Cross Check now, because it is an awesome bike.
    Surly Cross Check: fat tire roadie
    Surly LHT: Kid hauler
    On One Inbred: SS 26er

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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by bolandjd View Post
    Dude, relax. I never said I was against the Straggler. In fact, I recall writing that it is a pretty bike and I'm all for it if it gets more people on Surly's. I know why people like disc brakes. I just think they are overestimated, especially on non-mountain bikes. But that's a discussion for a different thread. A Disc Check just strikes me as kind of like a Ford Mustang with automatic transmission - looks the same but dumbed down for the masses. That's my initial reaction. Sorry if its not fanboy enough. But I hope Surly sells lots of Stragglers, and I hope that Stragglers win lots of gravel and CX races. And since Straggler has some geometry changes, I can be smuggly satisfied that the Straggler isn't really a Disc Check anyway. Okay, I'm going to go stroke my Cross Check now, because it is an awesome bike.

    I think disc brakes are sweet, but I understand why those who prefer a more traditional build choose to avoid them.

    I love our Cross Checks, but I'm excited for, (what I feel to be) increased braking power. I just never felt like the stock cantilevers stopped my bike well, even with Kool Stops. Especially when fully loaded coming down a mountain.

    I feel like my front disc check is a good compromise for now.


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    Surly Straggler

    Hopefully it comes in another color.

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    mwv
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    When I first saw and heard of this I was certain I would be getting the frame ASAP to replace my new CC. After a cooling off period I am not so sure. Yes, I might have opted for this to begin with. I am more than happy with my linear pull brakes. They are easily equal to my bb7s in stopping power even when wet. I do like the longer head tube but don't know what advantage the new rear drop out provides. I'd personally have to get it powder coated but that is just me. Who knows, maybe after I see one. If anything I think for me a Disc Trucker would better suit my purposes....but I know these are only my purposes and opinions. It's great to have so many viable options from Surly to choose from.

  20. #20
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    Surly Straggler

    Looks like September for the Straggler.

    http://surlybikes.com/blog/post/ta_dah
    Fargo Ti + Moonlander + Necro Pug + Nature Boy

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    Quote Originally Posted by mwv View Post
    I am more than happy with my linear pull brakes. They are easily equal to my bb7s in stopping power even when wet.
    Again, different strokes for different folks. But come on, linears are equal to bb7's in wet conditions? I like cantilever brakes, I like disc brakes. But saying that they provide the same stopping power in adverse conditions is just silly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brdpkns View Post
    Again, different strokes for different folks. But come on, linears are equal to bb7's in wet conditions? I like cantilever brakes, I like disc brakes. But saying that they provide the same stopping power in adverse conditions is just silly.

    Mine are. Get whatever you like.

    First rim brakes I've had since I was a kid. I pondered for weeks whether I would be happy with them or not. I am more than impressed by how mine are working.

  23. #23
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    Surly Straggler

    Quote Originally Posted by mwv View Post
    When I first saw and heard of this I was certain I would be getting the frame ASAP to replace my new CC. After a cooling off period I am not so sure. Yes, I might have opted for this to begin with. I am more than happy with my linear pull brakes. They are easily equal to my bb7s in stopping power even when wet. I do like the longer head tube but don't know what advantage the new rear drop out provides. I'd personally have to get it powder coated but that is just me. Who knows, maybe after I see one. If anything I think for me a Disc Trucker would better suit my purposes....but I know these are only my purposes and opinions. It's great to have so many viable options from Surly to choose from.
    As far as the drop outs go, I've had my fair share of wheel slips while climbing on my CC. These dropouts aren't the prettiest out there but if they function then that's all that matters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brdpkns View Post
    I think disc brakes are sweet, but I understand why those who prefer a more traditional build choose to avoid them.

    I love our Cross Checks, but I'm excited for, (what I feel to be) increased braking power. I just never felt like the stock cantilevers stopped my bike well, even with Kool Stops. Especially when fully loaded coming down a mountain.

    I feel like my front disc check is a good compromise for now.

    Beautiful bike. I've half considered doing this, but I just upgraded to Kool Stop's and I am liking them thus far. If these were available when I bought my X-Check it would be a no brainer, but there are too many other bikes I want right now instead (to fill gaps the X-Check doesn't cover).

    I can't wait to see my first one though. They look sweet. I wonder if Surly is going to start the new paint and I wonder if the Straggler will eventually replace the X-Check (but being that it's not called a Cross Check I doubt it). Looking forward to more cool stuff from Surly!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilikemtb999 View Post
    As far as the drop outs go, I've had my fair share of wheel slips while climbing on my CC. These dropouts aren't the prettiest out there but if they function then that's all that matters.
    How will these change potential slipping?

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    Surly Straggler

    The beginning portion acts like a vertical dropout.

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    I saw the info on this, the next day I sold my 1x1 and then went and ordered my disc trucker frameset...

    i LOVE the color, the dropouts seem like a logical compromise, but I just couldn't wait... maybe in a while I'll pick one up as I'd love to build a more "roadie" bike and I like the idea of building my entire stable around 135mm disc wheels... so maybe I'll build one of these up eventually with proper drop bars and such...
    - Surly Disc trucker
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlefin View Post
    Looks like September for the Straggler.

    Ta-Dah | Blog | Surly Bikes
    Yea, and despite the urge by Surly to get to your LBS for pre-order....they cannot yet be pre-orderd. ARGH!!! I need to make sure I get one of these as soon as they hit. My cross bike is out of commish for the time being and while commuting and touring on the Pug is fun...I miss drop bars and skinny(ish) tires. Yes, I consider 38c skinny.
    Oh noes. I'm going to drink the Kool-Aid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jcaino View Post
    Yea, and despite the urge by Surly to get to your LBS for pre-order....they cannot yet be pre-orderd. ARGH!!! I need to make sure I get one of these as soon as they hit. My cross bike is out of commish for the time being and while commuting and touring on the Pug is fun...I miss drop bars and skinny(ish) tires. Yes, I consider 38c skinny.
    Fat bike living. I love it 38c skinny!
    I still don't understand anyone who rides on anything smaller than 28mms in 2013, hell even racing is stupid on 23 or 25 IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FatCloud View Post
    Fat bike living. I love it 38c skinny!
    I still don't understand anyone who rides on anything smaller than 28mms in 2013, hell even racing is stupid on 23 or 25 IMO.
    I've been loving my 28c tires on my 29er ... parts are moving to a disc trucker here soon though.
    - Surly Disc trucker
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    Oh. I see how the first diagram would work as a vertical dropout but thought what they did was more like the second diagram. To me it seems it would slip just the same.

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    Any word on the Axle-To-Crown dimension ?

    If it's 400mm I can see CC owners just buying the forks (including me).

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    Or you could just buy a current Disc Trucker fork. It's only 10mm shorter, which I would like to drop the CC's bottom bracket a hair.

    Quote Originally Posted by theindividualist View Post
    Any word on the Axle-To-Crown dimension ?

    If it's 400mm I can see CC owners just buying the forks (including me).

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    Quote Originally Posted by mwv View Post
    How will these change potential slipping?
    I saw something the other day that said the screws can be run from the front or rear of the dropout so they can serve as chain tensioners when running single speed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FatCloud View Post
    Fat bike living. I love it 38c skinny!
    I still don't understand anyone who rides on anything smaller than 28mms in 2013, hell even racing is stupid on 23 or 25 IMO.
    Amen! Even the pros run 28's in the cobbles. (at least a few teams do)So many great high volume, low rolling resistance tires these days from the likes of Challenge, Grand Bois, and others. Perfect tires for a street-oriented Straggler.
    Surly Cross Check: fat tire roadie
    Surly LHT: Kid hauler
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    I like that it has the extra eyelets on the fork(hopefully one of these days they add them to the cc fork). I like the longer headtube, I like that it appears to have less toe overlap with big tires. I read it has a lower BB which i'm not excited about(I completely understand why they did it, I just already get enough pedal strike on trails even on 700x45s). I'm not sold on it as a replacement for my cross check just yet. But maybe in addition to......

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    Quote Originally Posted by seat_boy View Post
    Or you could just buy a current Disc Trucker fork. It's only 10mm shorter, which I would like to drop the CC's bottom bracket a hair.
    I'm pretty sure if you looked you could find a front disc fork with the same elements as the X-Check.

    A quick type in google, got me this: Vicious Cycles - Forks

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    When i took my Cross Check to a disc 2 winters ago, i used a Salsa La Cruz disc fork since it was nearly identical to the Checks stock fork. Rides great and its only a little stiffer than the stock fork.
    Alea Jacta Est

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilikemtb999 View Post
    Hopefully it comes in another color.
    It will

    Quote Originally Posted by jcaino View Post
    Yea, and despite the urge by Surly to get to your LBS for pre-order....they cannot yet be pre-orderd. ARGH!!!
    Sure it can. Have your LBS check the "Specials and Programs" part of the QBP online. It'll be easier to get if your LBS pre-orders a few more to stock though.
    Jason
    Disclaimer: www.paramountsports.net

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    Quote Originally Posted by brdpkns View Post
    But saying that they provide the same stopping power in adverse conditions is just silly.
    Ok, I'm enough of a newbie to ask here.... why is that such a given? Basic physics says that you need to apply significantly less clamping force at the rim than at the disc to provide the same amount of breaking power. Or, in other words, to equal the rim brakes, the disc brakes have to work HARDER.

    I have a Big dummy with disc brakes; stops pretty well even fully loaded. I have a cross-check with canti's which does the same... provided I have my hands in the drops and have a good position to pull the brake levers. The only trouble I have with the canti's is when I'm riding on the hoods, and the problem there is hand mechanics and not the brakes.

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    Hoping to sell my 1x1 and possibly pick up one of these maybe.

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    I gotta say, the Straggler is pretty tempting to set-up as a SS commuter with a flat or upright bar. But I go through this every year with the new Surlys. Ever since the DT came out I've been threatening to put a DT fork on my LHT. I'm already thinking of doing the same for my CC. I've got a brand new Pass & Stow rack in a box that would likely mount up perfect on my CC with a Straggler fork. That'll likely be my winter project. Maybe with a new rear fixed wheel...
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

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    Quote Originally Posted by evandy View Post
    Ok, I'm enough of a newbie to ask here.... why is that such a given? Basic physics says that you need to apply significantly less clamping force at the rim than at the disc to provide the same amount of breaking power. Or, in other words, to equal the rim brakes, the disc brakes have to work HARDER.

    I have a Big dummy with disc brakes; stops pretty well even fully loaded. I have a cross-check with canti's which does the same... provided I have my hands in the drops and have a good position to pull the brake levers. The only trouble I have with the canti's is when I'm riding on the hoods, and the problem there is hand mechanics and not the brakes.
    Exactly. With cantis on 700c rims, you get an effective disc diameter of 622+ mm. On 26" wheels with cantis, you get an effective diameter of 559+ mm. Compare that to the 160mm size of regular disc brake discs. Much less pressure is needed at the brake pads on rim brakes than on disc brakes. Basic physics.

    My KM with 160 mm discs stops great. But so does my CC with cantis, even considering the hand mechanics. My old Peugeot Crazy Horse stops great too with its 26 in wheels and cantis.

    The practical difference between the two brake systems seems to be the ability to keep the braking surface free of contamination. Disc brakes are up high, out of the muck, and likely to stay cleaner. That can be important on a mountain bike.

    Jan Heine has an interesting comparison between rim and disc brakes in the summer '13 issue of Bicycle Quarterly. He has a randonneur's perspective on this, not a mountain biker's, but his comments are still applicable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinymouse View Post
    Exactly. With cantis on 700c rims, you get an effective disc diameter of 622+ mm. On 26" wheels with cantis, you get an effective diameter of 559+ mm. Compare that to the 160mm size of regular disc brake discs. Much less pressure is needed at the brake pads on rim brakes than on disc brakes. Basic physics.
    Why should I care how much pressure is needed at the brake pads or how hard my brakes need to work? All I care about is how easily (read: with minimal hand effort) I can apply and modulate my brakes.

    It strikes me as bizarre to ever say the problem could be 'hand mechanics and not the brakes' - the whole point of bicycle brakes is to work effectively in one's hands. If the brakes don't get the job done, whatever kind they are, it's the brakes' fault, every time.

    EDIT: And if two types of brakes can equally 'get the job done' (i.e. stop or slow the bike as I see fit), then the one which requires less effort at the lever is better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastCoast View Post
    It strikes me as bizarre to ever say the problem could be 'hand mechanics and not the brakes' - the whole point of bicycle brakes is to work effectively in one's hands. If the brakes don't get the job done, whatever kind they are, it's the brakes' fault, every time.
    Perhaps I can state it better... the only problem I've ever had with canti's is when I'm riding on the hoods... and that's an issue of the brake levers themselves, not the brakes; hence my comment about hand mechanics. When I finally get around to putting cross-top levers on my CC I'll have a more apples to apples comparison than cantis +road levers and discs + mountain levers. And, again, when in the drops I don't have any issues.

    I can totally see why MTBers would prefer swapping out a disc instead of a rim, since I expect the mud && grit can wear through rims on linear-pull brake equipped brakes. And there's a definite advantage to being able swap out a fully-inflated tire without needing to disconnect rim brakes (much less an issue with linear-pull since disconnecting the noodle is so easy). As mentioned, I have a disc-brake equipped bike too, and I'm fine with them. But I am always surprised to hear so many people state that the benefit of disc brakes is better stopping power; especially the mechanical ones. Hydro brakes bring a whole other set of physics to the party.

  46. #46
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    So any speculation as to how much a frameset will be?
    - Surly Disc trucker
    - '82 trek 560 roadie

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    Quote Originally Posted by donalson View Post
    So any speculation as to how much a frameset will be?
    It would be great if it stayed around the same as the DT but I imagine it might be more expensive given the XD coat or whatever it's called. We'll know soon enough. Hopefully Surlys will remain cheaper than Salsas.
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinymouse View Post
    The practical difference between the two brake systems seems to be the ability to keep the braking surface free of contamination. Disc brakes are up high, out of the muck, and likely to stay cleaner. That can be important on a mountain bike.
    I must be doing it wrong, I've been struggling w/ my one bike w/ discs for 5 yrs now and they are insanely finicky, and when it is PNW wet out (9 months of the year) they squeal even worse (when it's dry they just squeal the first few brakings of an outing, but when it's wet they never stop). I know I'm the only person in the world w/ this problem, I have 2 coworkers w/ disc commuters and there's don't squeal like mine. I have replaced the pads, the calipers, and the discs, everything but the frame of the bike and its fork. Drives me crazy, makes me not ride the bike.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by HardyWeinberg View Post
    I must be doing it wrong, I've been struggling w/ my one bike w/ discs for 5 yrs now and they are insanely finicky, and when it is PNW wet out (9 months of the year) they squeal even worse (when it's dry they just squeal the first few brakings of an outing, but when it's wet they never stop). I know I'm the only person in the world w/ this problem, I have 2 coworkers w/ disc commuters and there's don't squeal like mine. I have replaced the pads, the calipers, and the discs, everything but the frame of the bike and its fork. Drives me crazy, makes me not ride the bike.
    what brand are you using?... I had some sequel issues when I had some tektro hydros and I know certain avid hydros have that issue... can't recall ever having that issue on my bb7's or my shimano hydros
    - Surly Disc trucker
    - '82 trek 560 roadie

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by donalson View Post
    So any speculation as to how much a frameset will be?
    $550

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