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Surly Pack Rat

46K views 179 replies 47 participants last post by  Fishbone 
#1 ·
Looks like announcement is close. I saw couple of posts here and there, some referencing their LBS saying it will replace Pacer
Surly Pack Rat Touring Frame Kit, 650B, 56cm, moss green-FM1496

650B, Moss Green
Looks like smaller frames will get 26 inch wheels (if you browse the store linked above)

Post your intel here!
 
#4 ·
Also, let's hope for a straightforward rear dropout like on the Disc Trucker. And bottle mounts on the fork. And while we're at it clearence for 650b by 2.25 or 26x 2.5. Great!
 
#9 ·
Sadly there is no 60cm Pack Rat? Perhaps it's a slopping TT bike and rides bigger than one would think based on ST. Let's hope so. Looks like the Midnight Special is definitely the Pacer replacement. Nice to see that the Pugs will remain.
 
#10 · (Edited)
That German site had the knot-boost brown Ogre frames up for a long time (months?) before the Surly blog post and official announcement, so I hope the same doesn't happen with these new bikes, as I am in the market for a new frame.

I am wondering if the Pack Rat swings more toward Troll/Ogre/ECR or more toward the LHT/DT?

*Edit: I made a MidNight Special thread, to let this thread concentrate on the Pack Rat; poor little guy was in danger of being overshadowed by his new sibling.
 
#12 ·
That German site had the knot-boost brown Ogre frames up for a long time (months?) before the Surly blog post and official announcement, so I hope the same doesn't happen with these new bikes, as I am in the market for a new frame.

I am wondering if the Pack Rat swings more toward Troll/Ogre/ECR or more toward the LHT/DT?

I am guessing that the 650B part of the MidNight Special refers to 650x47B road plus type tires, like the WTB Horizon, or the newer knobbier versions. Might be a decent randonneur? I am a little concerned about the price in Euros, though, and am wondering if they're going to use a new type of steel for it.
If previously reported info is correct (Pack Rat will be shipped with front rack as complete) I'd venture to guess it will be in the middle, more roadish but lighter duty compared to LHT and I hope it will be low trail. I took out rohloff from Krampus (like Krampus as SS much more) with intention to relace it to 650B rim and build 1x1 with it and fat Schwalbe g-one's (1x1 has gobs of clearance for these tires and fenders) but now I will wait till Pack Rat info is announced. I'd much rather have these tires on more road oriented frame and with drops
 
#13 · (Edited)
Pack Rat will be shipped with front rack as complete

The Surly front rack? It's an awesome rack for loaded touring, but for anything lighter than a LHT/DT it might be a bit of overkill.

*Edit: If it comes with a rack, it will probably be an 8-Pack Rack or a 24-Pack Rack, both of which would be more suited to a fast tourer than the regular Surly front rack.
 
#16 ·
Why would a Euro distributor already have product listings and prices for models that haven't officially been announced yet? Seems like a good way to get your distributorship yanked.

Regardless, none of those photos are loading (for me, at least).
 
#17 · (Edited)
Why would a Euro distributor already have product listings and prices for models that haven't officially been announced yet? Seems like a good way to get your distributorship yanked.

Regardless, none of those photos are loading (for me, at least).
It does, right? They had the new Ogre up for ages before it was officially announced as well. Maybe they're mad keen on getting as many pre-orders as possible?

*Edit: I just realized that Interbike is coming up next week, so maybe we'll see the new models unveiled there? (We won't.) At this stage it's pretty much that or Frostbike, sometime early next year (Seems more likely, after the info Mongol777 got).
 
#20 ·
Friday and no word from Surly HQ.

I was hoping Surly would post something about new products but nothing today. Super curious about this Pack Rat bike. I wonder if they'll do a 29" version in larger sizes? One thing I did come across which I had not really looked at before is the Crust Bikes Evasion. Really, this seems like my ideal bike--26+ clearance, lots of braze-ons for racks and cages, and designed around drop bars. If it turns out that there is no Pack Rat then I may look towards one of these. Props to Crust Bikes for putting out bikes that seem even weirder than Surly.

https://crustbikes.com/products/the-frame-formerly-known-as-the-evasion/

Another awesome bike Crust sells:
https://crustbikes.com/products/the-romanceur-presale/
 
#21 ·
I was hoping Surly would post something about new products but nothing today. Super curious about this Pack Rat bike. I wonder if they'll do a 29" version in larger sizes? One thing I did come across which I had not really looked at before is the Crust Bikes Evasion. Really, this seems like my ideal bike--26+ clearance, lots of braze-ons for racks and cages, and designed around drop bars. If it turns out that there is no Pack Rat then I may look towards one of these. Props to Crust Bikes for putting out bikes that seem even weirder than Surly.

https://crustbikes.com/products/the-frame-formerly-known-as-the-evasion/

Another awesome bike Crust sells:
https://crustbikes.com/products/the-romanceur-presale/
I mentioned them above. Great frames and from what I hear Matt is really stand up guy. They are my backup plan or National Forest Explorer
 
#24 ·
I like NFE a lot too but would like a bit more clearance. If exchange rate was a bit more favorable for Canadian dollar I'd be riding Romanceur already, ticks all the boxes for my next build, can use common hubs (100/135) and has threaded fork with ability to use traditional stem as a bonus (personal preference)
 
#23 ·
I just got clearance for an N+1, so now I am chomping at the bit to see the Pack Rat and the MidNight Special myself. I want to build a traditional(ish) style randonneur for brevets and other long distance rides and both of the forthcoming bikes, based on wheelsize and the hints I have gotten, sound like they might be good candidates.

*Edit to add: I really like the NFE as well, and the Elephant Bikes builder, Glen Copus, is really cool. On the Elephant blog there's a great post (link below) about a one-off 700c bits bike he built and modifications he made to an old road suspension fork.

It is not an NFE!

*Edit 2: Interview with Glen Copus.

Glen Copus: An Elephant's Place in Cycling History | The Bicycle Story
 
#25 ·
I just got clearance for an N+1,
Congrats! My N+1 went out of control long time ago. Last time I counted I had close to 30 bikes (including my old frames which I rebuilt for CEO so I don't have to sell them and she can enjoy quality ride). Probably about 20 in ready to ride condition and around 10 in various stages of building. That and CDN/USD Exchange rate keeps me from getting Romanceur, NFE or Dreamer (for now :))
 
#27 · (Edited)
The dropouts will be crucial to the Pack Rat, I agree. I was heavily considering an Ogre as an N+1, but I have to admit the dropouts were somewhat off putting. Traditional Troll dropouts would be awesome.

Edit #457: Looks like those links to Cosmic Sports in Germany have been taken down, even though they're still coming up in Google. It's almost like someone from QBP was reading threads at MTBR and found a leak in the embargo or something...
 
#28 ·
OK, this is what I have so far (prices in Canadian $$$) and as usual dates are subject to change:
Both Pack Rat and Midnight special will be available in Feb 2018
Announcement is coming around Oct 15
Pack Rat complete will be $2099 CDN, no info on frameset
Midnight Special frameset will be $995 CDN
 
#34 ·
I think ECR on the right, with the same moloko bars as the Ogre. I agree with PMC, though, the bike with bags to the rear looks like a Cosmic Stallion.

You can see what looks like a disco blue Straggler behind the big fat dummy, but I am drawing a blank on the drop bar bike sèn from the rear, closest to camera.
 
#39 · (Edited)
Has anyone heard murmurings about a new Surly 650B tire? I know Surly have the 650x41 Knard, but you would think that they would try to separate a new light tourer with drop bar geometry apart from the 650B Straggler by using a different tire.

Maybe the completes will wear Continentals or something? Still, it will be interesting to see the rubber that the complete Pack Rat ends up with.
 
#41 ·
Straggler 650B with flat bars and 8-pack rack?

It's not exactly moss green, but prototypes are commonly different colors to the production models. Plus, there is no model name, but I'm not really seeing anything that would really set the pictured bike apart from a flat bar straggler.

Can anyone else see something that I'm missing?
 
#43 · (Edited)
You have a point. Having done a Google image search, true porteur bikes didn't actually have the amount of rake to their forks that I was seeing in my mind's eye and the porteur racks were similarly positioned (in some of the old photos), with the mid point further forward than the front axle.

Maybe.
 
#45 ·
I was just thinking... If there really is a Pack Rat on the way, I wonder if it's going to be designed with low trail so that it's more stable when paired with a Surly 8 & 24 Pack Rack racks? That could make sense, right?

I had a great ride on my Ogre today on dirt roads in the GPNF. The roads were a bit much for my LHT so I was glad I was on my Ogre with ETs. Still, I prefer drops to flats (or Jones bars like I have on my Ogre). I'm really hoping the Pack Rat is a drop bar bike for large volume tires. Doesn't have to be plus tires, but at least 2.4s. Fingers crossed.
 
#46 ·
I was just thinking... If there really is a Pack Rat on the way, I wonder if it's going to be designed with low trail so that it's more stable when paired with a Surly 8 & 24 Pack Rack racks? That could make sense, right?

I had a great ride on my Ogre today on dirt roads in the GPNF. The roads were a bit much for my LHT so I was glad I was on my Ogre with ETs. Still, I prefer drops to flats (or Jones bars like I have on my Ogre). I'm really hoping the Pack Rat is a drop bar bike for large volume tires. Doesn't have to be plus tires, but at least 2.4s. Fingers crossed.
Someone in the pacer thread said that their LBS reported that the Rat Ride would "be optimized for front loads" or something like that, so low trail with 8-Pack/24-pack rack would stand to reason. It would be kinda cool, and really quite radical, if they did it with straight fork legs, like the Faraday Porteur commuter without the electric stuff.

The whole (hopefully temporary?) retirement of the 1x1 (originally known as the Rat Ride 1x1) just before the debut of a new model with the name "Rat" in the title is interesting, as noted in the 1x1 retirement thread, so I'm kinda stoked to see what turns up. A tough little mid-trail utility hauler based on the 1x1 or a more slender, low-trail road focused offering?
 
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