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Thread: surly ogre

  1. #1
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    surly ogre

    Has anyone seen a geometry chart for the new ogre and whether it will be suspension corrected or not?

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    It's the same as the Karate Monkey if I'm not mistaken, just different drop-outs and braze-ons.
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

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    I should have asked about the geometry for the xxl theyre supposed to make.

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    I can't imagine it not being suspension corrected, aren't all their mountain bikes suspension corrected now?
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

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    New KM has lighter/lively Salsa Cromoto fork (IMHO best rigid fork on the market), Orge has old heavy/dead KM fork. It's suspension corrected, as said above, same geometry as KM.
    Last edited by pursuiter; 09-12-2011 at 11:49 AM.

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    I think an Enabler would be a good fit for the Ogre. Not even to run as a fat front, but just for the braze-ons and for the extra rear hub in case your freehub dies on some crazy cross country/cross continent/cross world tour.

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    Pretty sure the Ogre just rendered the KM obsolete (this coming from someone who LOVES the Karate MOnkey). Took the canti mounts off the KM, but still on the ogre. So the Ogre is same geometry, and just has more stuff. Can still run geared or SS, suspended or not, discs of v-brakes, etc... etc...

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    Quote Originally Posted by pointerDixie214 View Post
    Pretty sure the Ogre just rendered the KM obsolete (this coming from someone who LOVES the Karate MOnkey). Took the canti mounts off the KM, but still on the ogre. So the Ogre is same geometry, and just has more stuff. Can still run geared or SS, suspended or not, discs of v-brakes, etc... etc...
    The new KM supposedly has a lighter fork, but if I wanted really light I'd go with carbon anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmucker View Post
    I think an Enabler would be a good fit for the Ogre. Not even to run as a fat front, but just for the braze-ons and for the extra rear hub in case your freehub dies on some crazy cross country/cross continent/cross world tour.
    I would have liked to see the Ogre come with the mid-blade rack braze-ons AND the extra water bottle / Anything cage mounts...

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    Good thing I checked their blog, I was about to pimp out my '05 KM for trail duty....

    I think I found my new monstercross slash trail work slash bob with chainsaw hauler. At least with Surly products the bob trailer won't make the rear end flex like the old salsa dos niner - she's got a shimmy on the descents........

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    Fargo fork?

    Quote Originally Posted by slimhazy View Post
    I would have liked to see the Ogre come with the mid-blade rack braze-ons AND the extra water bottle / Anything cage mounts...
    What about running a Fargo fork on an ogre? I think the geometry might be ever so slightly different but I doubt it's enough to totally ruin the handling.
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmucker View Post
    I think an Enabler would be a good fit for the Ogre. Not even to run as a fat front, but just for the braze-ons and for the extra rear hub in case your freehub dies on some crazy cross country/cross continent/cross world tour.
    I like this idea, run a SS hub in the front and you always have an escape from catastrophe. Plus the enabler fork is nice. When I had one on my SS, I think that was the first time in my life I was excited about a rigid fork.

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    The new website is up!

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    Nice to see they lengthened the head tube on the XL Ogre (125mm vs. 105mm), even though it's still short. A third bottle cage would've been nice as well. Still, it looks pretty intriguing.

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    I wonder if the Ogre complete will have thumb shifters (which the Ogre complete in the photo on the website appears to have) or the Deore rapid fire shifters listed in the specs. I am hoping for thumb shifters -- I am a big fan. I have a feeling that I am going to end up with an Ogre complete --- too hard to resist and I think I almost have my wife on board for me getting one more bike.

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    ogre

    As a tall guy, I like the look of this bike. I also like the features.

    How would this bike work as a technical trail bike set up with a 100mm front fork?
    Is this supposed to be more of an off road touring bike or is it suitable for extenisve xc / trail riding?

    E
    Last edited by bigE; 09-16-2011 at 05:43 AM.

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    It has classic XC geometry with a slightly longer rear end (well, not long for a 29er). It would do XC pretty well I bet, technical trails pretty well but not fast. It's meant to do everything satisfactorily, so it's not going to be outstanding at anything (except practicality).

    Basically if you want to ride trails fast, it's probably not a great choice but otherwise can't go wrong.

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    bottles

    Quote Originally Posted by seat_boy View Post
    A third bottle cage would've been nice as well. Still, it looks pretty intriguing.
    Yeah, I don't really know why they didn't do that on the Troll and Ogre. It makes total sense. Still, both are winners and a nice options for all-road touring bikes.
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

  18. #18
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    I've got a nice "spare" aluminum "all-around" mtb. with full XT in super shape. Hmmm...its about to get nakedified!!!!
    "Go that way REAL FAST, if something gets in your way... turn".

  19. #19
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    I'm thinking I might pick up an Ogre for my around town/child puller bike that I'm currently sort of using my Fargo for. Drop bars aren't great for that, though... my boy can put too much leverage on my bike with his trail-a-bike, so a wider bar would be nice to counter that. Rear V brakes, just because I can, 1x something setup, the wide bar, maybe my Fargo V2 fork on the front to get the extra bottle mounts... I think that will be a pretty nice setup.

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    I put 40mm rise Surly "Open Bars" on my Pugsley AND Big Dummy. I'm 6'3 and like leverage. These bars are wide enough, relatively stiff and have nice, smart, swoopy angles to them. Viva Surly! Highly recommended.
    "Go that way REAL FAST, if something gets in your way... turn".

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    Quote Originally Posted by seat_boy View Post
    . Rear V brakes, just because I can, 1x something setup, the wide bar, maybe my Fargo V2 fork on the front to get the extra bottle mounts... I think that will be a pretty nice setup.
    I agree I think adding a fargo fork would make this bike about perfect. I see they put the extra mounts on the fork of the moonlander and pug for this year.

    i too am thinking of the ogre as a kid hauler, right now I use a LHT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pastpost View Post
    I agree I think adding a fargo fork would make this bike about perfect. I see they put the extra mounts on the fork of the moonlander and pug for this year.

    i too am thinking of the ogre as a kid hauler, right now I use a LHT.

    Warning; Blatant Surly plug:

    For anyone out there with 1 or two kids under 10 yrs: The Surly Big Dummy with the "Family van" kit. WAY better than a trailer, and when not loaded with a ton of kids or groceries it rides suprisingly quick. No way! Way. (I know you hear me Big Dummy brothers and sisters)! They are a chunk-o-change, (I think I have around $3500 into mine), but WOW! Seriously life changing bike. PS-Although Surly does not "endorse" trailer pulling, for legal reasons I am sure, I have pulled a circa '96 Burly all over with my Dum-Dum and it works just fine. Again, Viva Surly!
    "Go that way REAL FAST, if something gets in your way... turn".

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    any word on the ogre complete price? I am guessing a little more than the troll complete.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pastpost View Post
    any word on the ogre complete price? I am guessing a little more than the troll complete.
    Priceless!
    "Go that way REAL FAST, if something gets in your way... turn".

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    Any word on availability for the Ogre frame?

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny settle View Post
    Warning; Blatant Surly plug:

    For anyone out there with 1 or two kids under 10 yrs: The Surly Big Dummy with the "Family van" kit. WAY better than a trailer, and when not loaded with a ton of kids or groceries it rides suprisingly quick. No way! Way. (I know you hear me Big Dummy brothers and sisters)! They are a chunk-o-change, (I think I have around $3500 into mine), but WOW! Seriously life changing bike. PS-Although Surly does not "endorse" trailer pulling, for legal reasons I am sure, I have pulled a circa '96 Burly all over with my Dum-Dum and it works just fine. Again, Viva Surly!
    That was kind of my plan but in the time it's taken me to try to make progress toward saving up for a Dummy, my one kid turned 10 and is fully independent, and my now 6 yr old is just about outgrown the t-a-b and is off on her own 2 wheels as well. 5 yrs ago it would have been perfect...


    ps-> so now I'm saving for a ~19# road bike instead

  27. #27
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    Word.
    "Go that way REAL FAST, if something gets in your way... turn".

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    There's some shots of a SS Ogre in this video. Right at 50 secs is a still shot of it. Check it out.

    SurlyBikes's Channel - YouTube

    I'm looking forward to how people set the Ogre up for commuting.
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

  29. #29
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    I heard Ogre frames will be available in December, completes in February. Anybody hear differently?
    "Go that way REAL FAST, if something gets in your way... turn".

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    I found this pic online from a Japanese bike store (I think?). It appears to a small complete. So they must already be available overseas.


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    Cool pic. The Surly website says the Orge complete has rapidfire shifters, but in that pic they totally look like thumbies. Am I missing something? BTW, anyone seen the MSRP on those yet?

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    I emailed surly and they said the complete will run $1499. Time to start counting my change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pastpost View Post
    I emailed surly and they said the complete will run $1499. Time to start counting my change.
    Thanks. Good news. I've seen the Salsa El Mar 3's start to pop up on the various internet bike shops for about the same. Maybe its like $1550 or so. And the Fargo 3 for $1399. That'll make for some interesting competition.

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    All three of those are cool bikes, but I am still going to go with surly. After riding drop bars off road for three years now I have found that I like flat bar riding for dirt, so no fargo. Plus the el mar does not have rack mounts.

    My real decision is between the troll and the ogre. Both are pretty much the same, I like the color of the troll, but want a 29er. Looking like it will be ogre for me.

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    The Ogre and the Troll really woud be more useful with a third bottle mount under the downtube, and cage mounts on the forks a la Fargo...

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    Quote Originally Posted by satanas View Post
    The Ogre and the Troll really woud be more useful with a third bottle mount under the downtube, and cage mounts on the forks a la Fargo...
    A full size waterbottle won't fit on the under-downtube mount on my LHT. So being a little skeptical, I looked at the photos again on the Surly website, and sure enough it looks like the Ogre has more clearance under the downtube than the LHT. And it would have even more clearance with skinnier touring tires. So yeah, I think I agree with you - missed oppurtunity. And, ditto, mounts on the fork. Although, that can be easily remedied with a Salsa Enabler, if you really gotta mount stuff on your fork. I guess QBP wants to keep the Fargo the only 6 waterbottle-carrying show in town.

  37. #37
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    Why not a Fargo fork on an Ogre? Sure, it would be a bummer to have replace the Ogre fork just because of the lack of braze-ons but if you want to mount an Everything Cage on your fork or extra water bottles that would be a solution. While the forks have slightly different geometries, I doubt it would impact the handling severely.
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

  38. #38
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    You probably wouldn't have too much trouble unloading the Ogre fork and re-cooping some of the los$. Or be like me and look at it as an excuse to build yet ANOTHER BIKE around the fork! Maybe its time for a B.O.B? As a Big Dummy and Pugsley owner I LOVE SURLY, however, my big dilemma, (at the moment), is the more I look at the El Mariachi...El Mar w/Fargo fork? Life can be so difficult!
    "Go that way REAL FAST, if something gets in your way... turn".

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    I guess the current Fargo fork and Enabler are actually the same length as the Ogre/KM anyway, and now they are all up on the Salsa site, so presumably they're all available. The missing braze-ons on the frame and fork themselves would have a combined value of ~$1, plus a small amount of OEM labour, but I'd be happy to pay whatever it was. Much less hassle if they were there in the first place.

    IMHO the Troll would benefit from these braze-ons too, and I might have to get then added and then repaint the frame a less noxious colour...

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    Just bought a build kit in eager anticipation of the frameset. I am planning on making this my only bike, it should fill the duties currently carried out by my Crosscheck and GT 29er, which I am selling to finance the build.

    Just have to wait until December now...

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyharing View Post
    Just bought a build kit in eager anticipation of the frameset. I am planning on making this my only bike, it should fill the duties currently carried out by my Crosscheck and GT 29er, which I am selling to finance the build.

    Just have to wait until December now...
    Mikey, I want you to give the El Mariachi a long hard look. I've been beating myself up over the Ogre vs. Salsa El Mar and the E. M. is just a better bike. Its a little more $ but everything I've read about it; reviews from owners, the quality of tubing (longer fatigue life), ride characteristics, those nifty alternator drop-outs etc., points to Salsa having a slight edge, and that beautiful slate blue and matching cro-moto fork w/stainless drop-outs. I was so sure I wanted the Ogre but I know now I'm going to have to live with just two Surley's. (Pug and Dummy).
    "Go that way REAL FAST, if something gets in your way... turn".

  42. #42
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    But the Ogre has mounts for fenders and racks making it more versatile that the Mariachi. Just depends on what you want to use your bike for. Having the Rohloff mount is pretty neat too.

    I'm debating on the Ogre or the Troll. I'm wondering that since the Ogre is based upon the Karate Monkey how the handling would be when loaded with panniers and stuff. I've seen some great reviews of folks adventuring with the Troll, which is based on the 1x1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny settle View Post
    Mikey, I want you to give the El Mariachi a long hard look. I've been beating myself up over the Ogre vs. Salsa El Mar and the E. M. is just a better bike. Its a little more $ but everything I've read about it; reviews from owners, the quality of tubing (longer fatigue life), ride characteristics, those nifty alternator drop-outs etc., points to Salsa having a slight edge, and that beautiful slate blue and matching cro-moto fork w/stainless drop-outs. I was so sure I wanted the Ogre but I know now I'm going to have to live with just two Surley's. (Pug and Dummy).
    Thanks for the input! The El Mariachi is a beautiful bike, to be sure. Unfortunately, I don't think it will quite fit my needs. I want a bike that I can comfortably commute 30 miles a day on, then throw my 2 year old son on the back or hook up the trailer and cruise the lakeshore, or take to the hills and hammer, and someday take off on extended off-road adventures.

    My favorite aspect of my CC is the versatility, I have built it as a fixed gear with skinny tires to a geared monstercross with 45s. It's sort of the bike that I never have to worry about wondering if something will work with it, because everything does. To me, the Ogre is sort of everything I've been waiting for in a bike, especially since I live in an apartment in Chicago and it's primary use won't (sadly) be a mountain bike.

    Thanks again!

  44. #44
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    The Ogre is now posted up on Universal Cycles' website (any probably others), cost is $535. Not available yet, don't get too excited! Strange how it's $60 more than the KM, and $40 more than the Troll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seat_boy View Post
    The Ogre is now posted up on Universal Cycles' website (any probably others), cost is $535. Not available yet, don't get too excited! Strange how it's $60 more than the KM, and $40 more than the Troll.
    I noticed that, I hope it's available soon. It does seem a little steep compared to the KM and Troll, but oh well.

  46. #46
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    Mikey, the Ogre certainly is a jack-of-all-trades and you will not regret buying one! My commuting and grocery running and child retrieval is all covered with my big dummy, (can't live without it), so I'm thinking slightly higher performance steel niner. Gotta love Surly, dang those guys are funny! Surly is sold through QBP now so I recommend ordering one from your LBS-no shipping, no surprises. BTW, Schwalbe Big Apples make for one sweet niner street tire-fast, compliant.
    "Go that way REAL FAST, if something gets in your way... turn".

  47. #47
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    Ogre will be my all around bike, maybe Alfine or even a Rolhoff. I think the higher price is due to more braze ons and the new rear drop out. I'm cool with that.

  48. #48
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    Rolhoff hubs are truly amazing but so expensive! I would rather spread that money around for a pair of chromo. Surly Nice racks, Surly open bars, good fenders, second set of wheels w/street tires etc. But I heard Rolhoff's can go thousands of miles without maintenance.
    "Go that way REAL FAST, if something gets in your way... turn".

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny settle View Post
    Mikey, the Ogre certainly is a jack-of-all-trades and you will not regret buying one!
    Thanks for the advice! I'm sure I won't regret buying it, I just wish I could! Patience is not my strong suit.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny settle View Post
    Rolhoff hubs are truly amazing but so expensive! I would rather spread that money around for a pair of chromo. Surly Nice racks, Surly open bars, good fenders, second set of wheels w/street tires etc. But I heard Rolhoff's can go thousands of miles without maintenance.
    You need to change the oil every 5000kms or 1/year. A Rohloff has a service of well over 100,000kms so for most people it's something you can leave your kids.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

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