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Thread: surly ogre

  1. #1
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    surly ogre

    Has anyone seen a geometry chart for the new ogre and whether it will be suspension corrected or not?

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    It's the same as the Karate Monkey if I'm not mistaken, just different drop-outs and braze-ons.
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

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    I should have asked about the geometry for the xxl theyre supposed to make.

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    I can't imagine it not being suspension corrected, aren't all their mountain bikes suspension corrected now?
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

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    New KM has lighter/lively Salsa Cromoto fork (IMHO best rigid fork on the market), Orge has old heavy/dead KM fork. It's suspension corrected, as said above, same geometry as KM.
    Last edited by pursuiter; 09-12-2011 at 11:49 AM.

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    I think an Enabler would be a good fit for the Ogre. Not even to run as a fat front, but just for the braze-ons and for the extra rear hub in case your freehub dies on some crazy cross country/cross continent/cross world tour.

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    Pretty sure the Ogre just rendered the KM obsolete (this coming from someone who LOVES the Karate MOnkey). Took the canti mounts off the KM, but still on the ogre. So the Ogre is same geometry, and just has more stuff. Can still run geared or SS, suspended or not, discs of v-brakes, etc... etc...

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    Quote Originally Posted by pointerDixie214 View Post
    Pretty sure the Ogre just rendered the KM obsolete (this coming from someone who LOVES the Karate MOnkey). Took the canti mounts off the KM, but still on the ogre. So the Ogre is same geometry, and just has more stuff. Can still run geared or SS, suspended or not, discs of v-brakes, etc... etc...
    The new KM supposedly has a lighter fork, but if I wanted really light I'd go with carbon anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmucker View Post
    I think an Enabler would be a good fit for the Ogre. Not even to run as a fat front, but just for the braze-ons and for the extra rear hub in case your freehub dies on some crazy cross country/cross continent/cross world tour.
    I would have liked to see the Ogre come with the mid-blade rack braze-ons AND the extra water bottle / Anything cage mounts...

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    Good thing I checked their blog, I was about to pimp out my '05 KM for trail duty....

    I think I found my new monstercross slash trail work slash bob with chainsaw hauler. At least with Surly products the bob trailer won't make the rear end flex like the old salsa dos niner - she's got a shimmy on the descents........

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    Fargo fork?

    Quote Originally Posted by slimhazy View Post
    I would have liked to see the Ogre come with the mid-blade rack braze-ons AND the extra water bottle / Anything cage mounts...
    What about running a Fargo fork on an ogre? I think the geometry might be ever so slightly different but I doubt it's enough to totally ruin the handling.
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmucker View Post
    I think an Enabler would be a good fit for the Ogre. Not even to run as a fat front, but just for the braze-ons and for the extra rear hub in case your freehub dies on some crazy cross country/cross continent/cross world tour.
    I like this idea, run a SS hub in the front and you always have an escape from catastrophe. Plus the enabler fork is nice. When I had one on my SS, I think that was the first time in my life I was excited about a rigid fork.

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    The new website is up!

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    Nice to see they lengthened the head tube on the XL Ogre (125mm vs. 105mm), even though it's still short. A third bottle cage would've been nice as well. Still, it looks pretty intriguing.

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    I wonder if the Ogre complete will have thumb shifters (which the Ogre complete in the photo on the website appears to have) or the Deore rapid fire shifters listed in the specs. I am hoping for thumb shifters -- I am a big fan. I have a feeling that I am going to end up with an Ogre complete --- too hard to resist and I think I almost have my wife on board for me getting one more bike.

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    ogre

    As a tall guy, I like the look of this bike. I also like the features.

    How would this bike work as a technical trail bike set up with a 100mm front fork?
    Is this supposed to be more of an off road touring bike or is it suitable for extenisve xc / trail riding?

    E
    Last edited by bigE; 09-16-2011 at 05:43 AM.

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    It has classic XC geometry with a slightly longer rear end (well, not long for a 29er). It would do XC pretty well I bet, technical trails pretty well but not fast. It's meant to do everything satisfactorily, so it's not going to be outstanding at anything (except practicality).

    Basically if you want to ride trails fast, it's probably not a great choice but otherwise can't go wrong.

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    bottles

    Quote Originally Posted by seat_boy View Post
    A third bottle cage would've been nice as well. Still, it looks pretty intriguing.
    Yeah, I don't really know why they didn't do that on the Troll and Ogre. It makes total sense. Still, both are winners and a nice options for all-road touring bikes.
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

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    I've got a nice "spare" aluminum "all-around" mtb. with full XT in super shape. Hmmm...its about to get nakedified!!!!
    "Go that way REAL FAST, if something gets in your way... turn".

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    I'm thinking I might pick up an Ogre for my around town/child puller bike that I'm currently sort of using my Fargo for. Drop bars aren't great for that, though... my boy can put too much leverage on my bike with his trail-a-bike, so a wider bar would be nice to counter that. Rear V brakes, just because I can, 1x something setup, the wide bar, maybe my Fargo V2 fork on the front to get the extra bottle mounts... I think that will be a pretty nice setup.

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    I put 40mm rise Surly "Open Bars" on my Pugsley AND Big Dummy. I'm 6'3 and like leverage. These bars are wide enough, relatively stiff and have nice, smart, swoopy angles to them. Viva Surly! Highly recommended.
    "Go that way REAL FAST, if something gets in your way... turn".

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    Quote Originally Posted by seat_boy View Post
    . Rear V brakes, just because I can, 1x something setup, the wide bar, maybe my Fargo V2 fork on the front to get the extra bottle mounts... I think that will be a pretty nice setup.
    I agree I think adding a fargo fork would make this bike about perfect. I see they put the extra mounts on the fork of the moonlander and pug for this year.

    i too am thinking of the ogre as a kid hauler, right now I use a LHT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pastpost View Post
    I agree I think adding a fargo fork would make this bike about perfect. I see they put the extra mounts on the fork of the moonlander and pug for this year.

    i too am thinking of the ogre as a kid hauler, right now I use a LHT.

    Warning; Blatant Surly plug:

    For anyone out there with 1 or two kids under 10 yrs: The Surly Big Dummy with the "Family van" kit. WAY better than a trailer, and when not loaded with a ton of kids or groceries it rides suprisingly quick. No way! Way. (I know you hear me Big Dummy brothers and sisters)! They are a chunk-o-change, (I think I have around $3500 into mine), but WOW! Seriously life changing bike. PS-Although Surly does not "endorse" trailer pulling, for legal reasons I am sure, I have pulled a circa '96 Burly all over with my Dum-Dum and it works just fine. Again, Viva Surly!
    "Go that way REAL FAST, if something gets in your way... turn".

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    any word on the ogre complete price? I am guessing a little more than the troll complete.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pastpost View Post
    any word on the ogre complete price? I am guessing a little more than the troll complete.
    Priceless!
    "Go that way REAL FAST, if something gets in your way... turn".

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    Any word on availability for the Ogre frame?

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny settle View Post
    Warning; Blatant Surly plug:

    For anyone out there with 1 or two kids under 10 yrs: The Surly Big Dummy with the "Family van" kit. WAY better than a trailer, and when not loaded with a ton of kids or groceries it rides suprisingly quick. No way! Way. (I know you hear me Big Dummy brothers and sisters)! They are a chunk-o-change, (I think I have around $3500 into mine), but WOW! Seriously life changing bike. PS-Although Surly does not "endorse" trailer pulling, for legal reasons I am sure, I have pulled a circa '96 Burly all over with my Dum-Dum and it works just fine. Again, Viva Surly!
    That was kind of my plan but in the time it's taken me to try to make progress toward saving up for a Dummy, my one kid turned 10 and is fully independent, and my now 6 yr old is just about outgrown the t-a-b and is off on her own 2 wheels as well. 5 yrs ago it would have been perfect...


    ps-> so now I'm saving for a ~19# road bike instead

  27. #27
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    Word.
    "Go that way REAL FAST, if something gets in your way... turn".

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    There's some shots of a SS Ogre in this video. Right at 50 secs is a still shot of it. Check it out.

    SurlyBikes's Channel - YouTube

    I'm looking forward to how people set the Ogre up for commuting.
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

  29. #29
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    I heard Ogre frames will be available in December, completes in February. Anybody hear differently?
    "Go that way REAL FAST, if something gets in your way... turn".

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    I found this pic online from a Japanese bike store (I think?). It appears to a small complete. So they must already be available overseas.


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    Cool pic. The Surly website says the Orge complete has rapidfire shifters, but in that pic they totally look like thumbies. Am I missing something? BTW, anyone seen the MSRP on those yet?

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    I emailed surly and they said the complete will run $1499. Time to start counting my change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pastpost View Post
    I emailed surly and they said the complete will run $1499. Time to start counting my change.
    Thanks. Good news. I've seen the Salsa El Mar 3's start to pop up on the various internet bike shops for about the same. Maybe its like $1550 or so. And the Fargo 3 for $1399. That'll make for some interesting competition.

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    All three of those are cool bikes, but I am still going to go with surly. After riding drop bars off road for three years now I have found that I like flat bar riding for dirt, so no fargo. Plus the el mar does not have rack mounts.

    My real decision is between the troll and the ogre. Both are pretty much the same, I like the color of the troll, but want a 29er. Looking like it will be ogre for me.

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    The Ogre and the Troll really woud be more useful with a third bottle mount under the downtube, and cage mounts on the forks a la Fargo...

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    Quote Originally Posted by satanas View Post
    The Ogre and the Troll really woud be more useful with a third bottle mount under the downtube, and cage mounts on the forks a la Fargo...
    A full size waterbottle won't fit on the under-downtube mount on my LHT. So being a little skeptical, I looked at the photos again on the Surly website, and sure enough it looks like the Ogre has more clearance under the downtube than the LHT. And it would have even more clearance with skinnier touring tires. So yeah, I think I agree with you - missed oppurtunity. And, ditto, mounts on the fork. Although, that can be easily remedied with a Salsa Enabler, if you really gotta mount stuff on your fork. I guess QBP wants to keep the Fargo the only 6 waterbottle-carrying show in town.

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    Why not a Fargo fork on an Ogre? Sure, it would be a bummer to have replace the Ogre fork just because of the lack of braze-ons but if you want to mount an Everything Cage on your fork or extra water bottles that would be a solution. While the forks have slightly different geometries, I doubt it would impact the handling severely.
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

  38. #38
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    You probably wouldn't have too much trouble unloading the Ogre fork and re-cooping some of the los$. Or be like me and look at it as an excuse to build yet ANOTHER BIKE around the fork! Maybe its time for a B.O.B? As a Big Dummy and Pugsley owner I LOVE SURLY, however, my big dilemma, (at the moment), is the more I look at the El Mariachi...El Mar w/Fargo fork? Life can be so difficult!
    "Go that way REAL FAST, if something gets in your way... turn".

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    I guess the current Fargo fork and Enabler are actually the same length as the Ogre/KM anyway, and now they are all up on the Salsa site, so presumably they're all available. The missing braze-ons on the frame and fork themselves would have a combined value of ~$1, plus a small amount of OEM labour, but I'd be happy to pay whatever it was. Much less hassle if they were there in the first place.

    IMHO the Troll would benefit from these braze-ons too, and I might have to get then added and then repaint the frame a less noxious colour...

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    Just bought a build kit in eager anticipation of the frameset. I am planning on making this my only bike, it should fill the duties currently carried out by my Crosscheck and GT 29er, which I am selling to finance the build.

    Just have to wait until December now...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyharing View Post
    Just bought a build kit in eager anticipation of the frameset. I am planning on making this my only bike, it should fill the duties currently carried out by my Crosscheck and GT 29er, which I am selling to finance the build.

    Just have to wait until December now...
    Mikey, I want you to give the El Mariachi a long hard look. I've been beating myself up over the Ogre vs. Salsa El Mar and the E. M. is just a better bike. Its a little more $ but everything I've read about it; reviews from owners, the quality of tubing (longer fatigue life), ride characteristics, those nifty alternator drop-outs etc., points to Salsa having a slight edge, and that beautiful slate blue and matching cro-moto fork w/stainless drop-outs. I was so sure I wanted the Ogre but I know now I'm going to have to live with just two Surley's. (Pug and Dummy).
    "Go that way REAL FAST, if something gets in your way... turn".

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    But the Ogre has mounts for fenders and racks making it more versatile that the Mariachi. Just depends on what you want to use your bike for. Having the Rohloff mount is pretty neat too.

    I'm debating on the Ogre or the Troll. I'm wondering that since the Ogre is based upon the Karate Monkey how the handling would be when loaded with panniers and stuff. I've seen some great reviews of folks adventuring with the Troll, which is based on the 1x1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny settle View Post
    Mikey, I want you to give the El Mariachi a long hard look. I've been beating myself up over the Ogre vs. Salsa El Mar and the E. M. is just a better bike. Its a little more $ but everything I've read about it; reviews from owners, the quality of tubing (longer fatigue life), ride characteristics, those nifty alternator drop-outs etc., points to Salsa having a slight edge, and that beautiful slate blue and matching cro-moto fork w/stainless drop-outs. I was so sure I wanted the Ogre but I know now I'm going to have to live with just two Surley's. (Pug and Dummy).
    Thanks for the input! The El Mariachi is a beautiful bike, to be sure. Unfortunately, I don't think it will quite fit my needs. I want a bike that I can comfortably commute 30 miles a day on, then throw my 2 year old son on the back or hook up the trailer and cruise the lakeshore, or take to the hills and hammer, and someday take off on extended off-road adventures.

    My favorite aspect of my CC is the versatility, I have built it as a fixed gear with skinny tires to a geared monstercross with 45s. It's sort of the bike that I never have to worry about wondering if something will work with it, because everything does. To me, the Ogre is sort of everything I've been waiting for in a bike, especially since I live in an apartment in Chicago and it's primary use won't (sadly) be a mountain bike.

    Thanks again!

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    The Ogre is now posted up on Universal Cycles' website (any probably others), cost is $535. Not available yet, don't get too excited! Strange how it's $60 more than the KM, and $40 more than the Troll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seat_boy View Post
    The Ogre is now posted up on Universal Cycles' website (any probably others), cost is $535. Not available yet, don't get too excited! Strange how it's $60 more than the KM, and $40 more than the Troll.
    I noticed that, I hope it's available soon. It does seem a little steep compared to the KM and Troll, but oh well.

  46. #46
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    Mikey, the Ogre certainly is a jack-of-all-trades and you will not regret buying one! My commuting and grocery running and child retrieval is all covered with my big dummy, (can't live without it), so I'm thinking slightly higher performance steel niner. Gotta love Surly, dang those guys are funny! Surly is sold through QBP now so I recommend ordering one from your LBS-no shipping, no surprises. BTW, Schwalbe Big Apples make for one sweet niner street tire-fast, compliant.
    "Go that way REAL FAST, if something gets in your way... turn".

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    Ogre will be my all around bike, maybe Alfine or even a Rolhoff. I think the higher price is due to more braze ons and the new rear drop out. I'm cool with that.

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    Rolhoff hubs are truly amazing but so expensive! I would rather spread that money around for a pair of chromo. Surly Nice racks, Surly open bars, good fenders, second set of wheels w/street tires etc. But I heard Rolhoff's can go thousands of miles without maintenance.
    "Go that way REAL FAST, if something gets in your way... turn".

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny settle View Post
    Mikey, the Ogre certainly is a jack-of-all-trades and you will not regret buying one!
    Thanks for the advice! I'm sure I won't regret buying it, I just wish I could! Patience is not my strong suit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny settle View Post
    Rolhoff hubs are truly amazing but so expensive! I would rather spread that money around for a pair of chromo. Surly Nice racks, Surly open bars, good fenders, second set of wheels w/street tires etc. But I heard Rolhoff's can go thousands of miles without maintenance.
    You need to change the oil every 5000kms or 1/year. A Rohloff has a service of well over 100,000kms so for most people it's something you can leave your kids.
    Safe riding,

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    My LBS tells me that the complete Ogre will be $1499 but still isn't available to order.

    Anyone else try ordering one yet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by slimhazy View Post
    My LBS tells me that the complete Ogre will be $1499 but still isn't available to order.

    Anyone else try ordering one yet?


    My LBS has some frames, but no completes. They look nice...
    Safe riding,

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    Wow. That shop must not sell Surlys at a very brisk pace. Isn't that LHT from 2007? I'm going to have to hit up the shops tomorrow and see if I can track an Ogre down...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyharing View Post
    Wow. That shop must not sell Surlys at a very brisk pace. Isn't that LHT from 2007? I'm going to have to hit up the shops tomorrow and see if I can track an Ogre down...
    They sell a ton of Surlys...they just buy lots of them and the completes sell faster.
    Safe riding,

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    Love that Army Green!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyharing View Post
    Wow. That shop must not sell Surlys at a very brisk pace. Isn't that LHT from 2007? I'm going to have to hit up the shops tomorrow and see if I can track an Ogre down...
    Same with that crosscheck, thats an 08/09 color, beef gravy. Thats kind of cool seeing a store with the closeout colors, just wish I had a LBS around me with a silver bullet pacer, hehe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post


    My LBS has some frames, but no completes. They look nice...
    Frames already? Hmm, and I'd just about decided to go with a Troll complete instead...

    Maybe il move the party from my Commuter Monkey over to an Ogre frame to tide me over...

  58. #58
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    want...gettin one soon for my all around commuter tourer beater. wanna see some real life builds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nativeson View Post
    want...gettin one soon for my all around commuter tourer beater. wanna see some real life builds.
    Yep, I bet someone already has one built by now. Out with it, early adopters!

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    Quote Originally Posted by slimhazy View Post
    Frames already? Hmm, and I'd just about decided to go with a Troll complete instead....
    Having seen a Troll and an Ogre I can say that the Troll looks cool, but the Orge is truly MONSTROUS...

    Quote Originally Posted by slimhazy View Post
    Yep, I bet someone already has one built by now. Out with it, early adopters!


    Busted!...
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  61. #61
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    Be patient. Get the NINER!
    "Go that way REAL FAST, if something gets in your way... turn".

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    Ordered mine today from a LBS. They had a nice sale going, so I treated myself to some new shoes too. ETA was still Dec. 15, but who knows if it will come in sooner?

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    PRICE!

    So anyone out there with thoughts on the price? Seems pretty high for the complete. Doing some price checking from the spec list surly offers, I can put this same bike together (using common internet-retail pricing) for $50 less than they are offering it ($1445 vs $1499). Surly has never been a super thrifty brand, but I have never come across one of their complete's that I could do better just building my own. I feel like I must be missing something.

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    I agree, seems a little steep-just a little though. Get the frame. (Full XT, 40mm Surly Open Bars, hand-built wheels w/DT Tk or Mavic 719 rims, Schwalbe Big Apples, Brooks B-17 flyer special, *just me). If you're going to pay $1500 for a complete might as well dig up a few hundred more and really built it solid. You're going to upgrade, sooner or later...!
    "Go that way REAL FAST, if something gets in your way... turn".

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombinate View Post
    PRICE!

    So anyone out there with thoughts on the price? Seems pretty high for the complete. Doing some price checking from the spec list surly offers, I can put this same bike together (using common internet-retail pricing) for $50 less than they are offering it ($1445 vs $1499). Surly has never been a super thrifty brand, but I have never come across one of their complete's that I could do better just building my own. I feel like I must be missing something.
    I agree. I have less than $1100 spent on mine, and the only thing I need to buy is shifter cable housing. I did already have pedals, saddle and tires though, so that's another $200. Still well under the price of the complete.

  66. #66
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    Last year the Karate Monkey complete switched from Mr Whirly cranks & Salsa rims to a lesser spec and they didn't drop the price.

    When I first saw the Troll Completes for sale online they were listed at $1299; now they're advertise at a few shops at $1399. My (new) LBS quoted me $1399 and $1499 for a Troll or Ogre, respectively.

    Strange that the Troll has a lower price, but the more expensive Surly Open Bar...


    I'm considering now moving my Karate Monkey parts to an Ogre frameset, and/or buying aTroll complete...

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    The Troll does have the Open bar, but also the cheap square taper Andel crankset, maybe that's where the prices even out.

    I'd like to give QBP the benefit of the doubt on this. I read somewhere that the cost of importing bike frames and parts went way up this year, so they're probably seeing shrinking margins, even with cheaper components.

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    I hear that, but what I find interesting is that there is no advantage, price wise, to buying the complete. With most of their bikes, there is a definite price advantage to getting the complete. For example, the Pugsley goes for about $1650 complete, but trying to match the spec buying things piecemeal I can only get down to about $1800. Perhaps there is some sort of increased shipping costs, but with the Ogre frame commonly retailing at $535, I'm not seeing the other $950 in the complete, relative to pricing of their other models.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyharing View Post
    The Troll does have the Open bar, but also the cheap square taper Andel crankset, maybe that's where the prices even out.

    I'd like to give QBP the benefit of the doubt on this. I read somewhere that the cost of importing bike frames and parts went way up this year, so they're probably seeing shrinking margins, even with cheaper components.
    Definitely; metal prices and fuel are certainly up.

    Quote Originally Posted by zombinate View Post
    With most of their bikes, there is a definite price advantage to getting the complete. For example, the Pugsley goes for about $1650 complete, but trying to match the spec buying things piecemeal I can only get down to about $1800.
    For the Pugsley it may be a function of all the specialized parts involved. The Troll and the Ogre don't have anything special in the parts list.



    I got tired of flipping between windows with the parts lists and made this:



    The handlebar, headset, crank & BB are different. And tires obviously, owing to the different wheel size perhaps.

  70. #70
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    I tried to order from my LBS last week, but they said they can't get them til some time this week. Do some LBS just have better connections or what?

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalton View Post
    I tried to order from my LBS last week, but they said they can't get them til some time this week. Do some LBS just have better connections or what?
    Frame or complete? Based on what I've seen here, frames are shipping; completes are not.

  72. #72
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    Sorry..... frame only.

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    Looks like Universal Cycles has some in stock, only 3 out of the 5 sizes though.

    Universal Cycles -- Surly Ogre Frameset - 2012

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    Also, Surly tweeted that completes and Moonlanders available today! Getting antsy...

  75. #75
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    Looking at the Ogre sizing. I love the fit of my small Pugs (ETT 22.9", SO 29.8") - feels just about right. Compared to the Pugs, the small Ogre is about 1/2" smaller in both ETT and SO while the medium Ogre is about a 1/2" larger in both dimensions. Is it better to go smaller and use a longer stem or larger and use a shorter stem? Would a shorter stem quicken up the steering?

  76. #76
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    Ogre/KM frame bags

    From the Surly blog: In other cool news, we also now have framebags produced by our good friends at Revelate Designs. They are specifically made for the Pugsley and the Moonlander (and have specific part numbers for the various frame sizes)

    We will also have some soon for the Karate Monkey/Ogre frames.


    Neat-O
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Way View Post
    Looking at the Ogre sizing. I love the fit of my small Pugs (ETT 22.9", SO 29.8") - feels just about right. Compared to the Pugs, the small Ogre is about 1/2" smaller in both ETT and SO while the medium Ogre is about a 1/2" larger in both dimensions. Is it better to go smaller and use a longer stem or larger and use a shorter stem? Would a shorter stem quicken up the steering?
    I prefer shorter stems to longer ones. I don't find that a short stem makes the steering too quick because it also reduces the leverage you have on the front wheel. Going the other way I don't like having my weight further forward over the front wheel.

    SM Pugsley

    ET: 580.9
    SO: 758.0

    SM Ogre

    ET: 575.6
    SO: 762.9

    MD Ogre

    ET: 599.3
    SO: 792.7

    The Small Ogre is 5.3mm [0.21"] longer and 4.9mm [0.20"] taller.
    The Medium Orge is 18.4mm [~0.75"] longer and 34.7mm [1.37"] taller.

    In this case I'd probably go with the small Ogre since the TT is only fractionally shorter and the SO is close. If you like the way your Pugs fits this will be a good match assuming you'll use a smilar length stem and style of bars on both bikes.
    Last edited by vikb; 11-30-2011 at 04:28 PM.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  78. #78
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    Thanks Vik. I was looking at Surley's numbers and it appears that the inches are not matching the mm. If I take the Ogre numbers from their website and convert their millimeter to inches, they jive with what you wrote, but doesn't match the inches, especially the medium SO. I think they mixed up the Troll's numbers (inches) with the Ogre's.

  79. #79
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    Ogre completes are in stock this afternoon, according to Surley.

  80. #80
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    Ogre fork

    I was at 21st Ave Bicycles last week and they had an Ogre complete. The frame had bottle braze-ons on the underside of the DT. The fork had fender eyeles, mid-blade eyelets and eyelets for the Anything Cage. I kid you not. I didn't see anything about these additions on the website but they make a lot of sense. If I swing by there later today I may try and get pictures.
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

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    Really? That's kind of strange. I don't see the DT mounts in the picture above, not that I'm doubting you. Picking mine up on Thursday, so I guess I'll see if I get any nice little surprises.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfltroll View Post
    I was at 21st Ave Bicycles last week and they had an Ogre complete. The frame had bottle braze-ons on the underside of the DT. The fork had fender eyeles, mid-blade eyelets and eyelets for the Anything Cage. I kid you not. I didn't see anything about these additions on the website but they make a lot of sense. If I swing by there later today I may try and get pictures.
    Awesome! Can you kindly inquire about a part number as well? I see two different types of forks listed online...

  83. #83
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    ^ This is excellent news! Hopefully they've added these braze-ons to the Troll as well. If not, then please do so ASAP Surlydudes!!! :-)

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    I had emailed Surly about this and I got a response today confirming that Ogres are shipping with a bottle mount on the underside of the DT and Anything Cage mounts on the fork. The Trolls will apparently have these modifications in the future.
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfltroll View Post
    I had emailed Surly about this and I got a response today confirming that Ogres are shipping with a bottle mount on the underside of the DT and Anything Cage mounts on the fork. The Trolls will apparently have these modifications in the future.
    Did they by any chance mention if the separate Ogre forks will have the braze ons? And roughly when the Troll will get them?

    This will impact when/if I buy an Ogre Frameset, Troll Frameset or complete, and possibly an additional Ogre fork...

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfltroll View Post
    I had emailed Surly about this and I got a response today confirming that Ogres are shipping with a bottle mount on the underside of the DT and Anything Cage mounts on the fork. The Trolls will apparently have these modifications in the future.
    That's great! Calling my LBS soon for a frame.

  87. #87
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    I guess the changes are already in place on current Ogre completes. They did not say exactly when the changes would be made to the Troll, only that they are planned for the future. Hopefully they'll post about the changes on their blog and set everyone straight.
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfltroll View Post
    I had emailed Surly about this and I got a response today confirming that Ogres are shipping with a bottle mount on the underside of the DT and Anything Cage mounts on the fork. The Trolls will apparently have these modifications in the future.
    Thanks for the head's up! I was getting ready to order a Troll frameset. Now that the newer version will have the extra bottle and anything cage mounts, I will wait a little longer...

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by backcountryeti View Post
    Now that the newer version will have the extra bottle and anything cage mounts, I will wait a little longer...
    Argh, I can only wait another month, gotta build up a Troll for a trip. I'll have to email Surly and find out when "a little longer" is...

  90. #90
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    Picked mine up today, I can definitely confirm that the third bottle mount as well as the extra fork mounts are there. The DT even has three bosses! I wasn't sure why, but the guy at the LBS said it was for adjustability? Started the build, will put up some pictures posthaste.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyharing View Post
    Started the build, will put up some pictures posthaste.
    Cool, I'll sit here & wait...

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    With some loaner wheels, because the tires I have on the Ogre's wheels looked too wimpy.



    Like all good Ogres, it has plenty of warts.



    So that's rack, fender, trailer and, "etc." mount?



    This is a mount for an "Anything" cage too?



    The only quibble I have is that the rear canti mounts had a lot of rust when I took them out.



    Tomorrow I'll bolt up the calipers, install the chain, hook up the rear der. and take it out for a spin. This bike definitely win the award for "Most Holes In It" of any bike, ever.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyharing View Post
    With some loaner wheels, because the tires I have on the Ogre's wheels looked too wimpy.

    Tomorrow I'll bolt up the calipers, install the chain, hook up the rear der. and take it out for a spin. This bike definitely win the award for "Most Holes In It" of any bike, ever.
    Awesome! Thanks for the photos!

    Is that an 18" or 20"?

    I believe yes, those are extra bottle mounts for an Anything Cage inside the triangle. Or, alternatively, you could mount a regular water bottle cage in the higher position.

    I must have one of these, and really want a Troll in the same configuration.

  94. #94
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    The only quibble I have is that the rear canti mounts had a lot of rust when I took them out.
    Also, it looks like you've got the same rust inside the fork Anything Cage mounts. Perhaps you should consider cleaning those out and applying Frame Saver or something comparable...

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    It's a 20". The shop I ordered it through framesavered it for me, and chased the BB threads, but I'm not sure if they did the fork. Although I didn't see any when I was looking at it, the rust only showed up in the pictures, so it may just be some weird lighting.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyharing View Post
    It's a 20". The shop I ordered it through framesavered it for me, and chased the BB threads, but I'm not sure if they did the fork. Although I didn't see any when I was looking at it, the rust only showed up in the pictures, so it may just be some weird lighting.
    Put a little extra grease on the bolt threads when you put them in the fork holes and you'll be fine.

    Looks smaller than a 20", but I guess that's the purpose of the slanted top tube. Ho much steerer did you cut off?

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    Quote Originally Posted by slimhazy View Post
    Put a little extra grease on the bolt threads when you put them in the fork holes and you'll be fine.

    Looks smaller than a 20", but I guess that's the purpose of the slanted top tube. Ho much steerer did you cut off?
    Might be because I have the seat and bars up so high. That or the tires. It's probably 1/2"-3/4" higher than I will be riding it, just based on feel right now.

    I had the shop cut the steerer and install the headset, basically I compared the geometry to my current 29er and gave them the headset, stem and a stack of spacers and they cut it to fit. Lazy, I know, but I don't have a headset press, or vice, on e of the drawbacks of apartment dwelling, and they did a great job.

  98. #98
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    Thanks for the pictures mikey! I am going to be ordering up my frame from my LBS in the next couple of weeks and these pics have gotten me even more excited than I already was. This is going to be an awesome bike.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyharing View Post
    Lazy, I know, but I don't have a headset press, or vice, on e of the drawbacks of apartment dwelling, and they did a great job.
    Ha ha, you cause me to doubt your dedication to the cause!

    Somewhere I have a photo of my homemade headset press, on a frame, in a Park Tool workstand, in my tiny Manhattan apartment!

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by slimhazy View Post
    Argh, I can only wait another month, gotta build up a Troll for a trip. I'll have to email Surly and find out when "a little longer" is...
    If you find out anything, please report back, I am curious to see when the changes will be made...

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