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Thread: surly ogre

  1. #1001
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    Latest incarnation of the XXL Surly Ogre.

    Jones Loop H-Bar 710mm ESI X-Chunky grips
    Avid 160mm BB7 and Speed Dial levers
    Schwalbe Big Apples 60mm (2.35")
    Sun MTX 33, 33mm rims 32h on M525 hubs
    Driveline is all XT 11-36 rear, triple up front
    Paul Thumbies with Shimano levers indexed
    Surly Nice Rack
    Axiom Paddywagon bag
    Specialized Phenom 155 saddle
    70mm Orig8 stem


  2. #1002
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rahoodi View Post
    apologies if I over did it with the pics its still the honeymoon.
    I always put up heaps of pics.
    Mostly cause I think a thread would be boring as bat pooh without them.
    Can you imagine these threads without pics?
    Your bike looks great!!!
    Enjoy the honeymoon.
    No doubt your now aware your new bride (the Ogre) is a heavy biatch to carry across the threshold.

  3. #1003
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    Quote Originally Posted by rifraf View Post
    I always put up heaps of pics.
    Mostly cause I think a thread would be boring as bat pooh without them.
    Can you imagine these threads without pics?
    Your bike looks great!!!
    Enjoy the honeymoon.
    No doubt your now aware your new bride (the Ogre) is a heavy biatch to carry across the threshold.
    You said it rifraf however she does love to please! Been thinking of getting her on a diet with a niner carbon fork and then maybe a Dirt Wizard when it comes out, and maybe some RH rims too! I was sorely tempted to wait for the ECR but I am so glad I didn't.
    Purchased the new Salsa Anything Cages recently which should arrive tomorrow. Hoping the straps are longer than before and they look stronger. Anybody had any experience with these?

  4. #1004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rahoodi View Post
    Greetings from the UK

    Ogre build is finished! and have to say I am loving my new bike!

    Test rode an Ogre with a Rohloff and loved the ride so got busy researching this and that including this great forum. Still want to make some changes down the road maybe some carbon forks but we shall see.
    Hi Rahoodi,
    good to see your bike, is this an 18" frame?

    I have an 18" frame in this colour on order, should be here (Tasmania, Aust.) by the end of December.

    Your's looks great, I am planning on building it up with parts from my old mtb and my commuter. Yes I'm going against the grain of the n+1 rule and bought the Ogre to serve both as a commuter/touring bike and also as something a bit different for single track (have Giant Trance as my dedicated mtb), so I'm going from four bikes down to three!!

    The only other thing I need is a set of wheels, was thinking of lacing some Mavic 36hole XM319 rims to Shimano SLX hubs with DT competition spokes. What do you all think of this combo for mtb, commuting and touring use?

  5. #1005
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    Quote Originally Posted by potahal View Post
    Hi Rahoodi,
    good to see your bike, is this an 18" frame?

    I have an 18" frame in this colour on order, should be here (Tasmania, Aust.) by the end of December.

    Your's looks great, I am planning on building it up with parts from my old mtb and my commuter. Yes I'm going against the grain of the n+1 rule and bought the Ogre to serve both as a commuter/touring bike and also as something a bit different for single track (have Giant Trance as my dedicated mtb), so I'm going from four bikes down to three!!

    The only other thing I need is a set of wheels, was thinking of lacing some Mavic 36hole XM319 rims to Shimano SLX hubs with DT competition spokes. What do you all think of this combo for mtb, commuting and touring use?
    Hi potahal

    Yes it is an 18" frame. The Ogre is a very versatile platform and fun to ride. Despite being a bit heavy it is quite nimble and I think will be fine for commuter/touring and a bit of singletrack. Choices of tyres, racks etc for each of your needs can be fun. The wheelset you mentioned sounds reasonable. The rims and spokes should be fine although I would get a proffessional to build them for you if budget allows. Shimano SLX are good affordable hubs provided you dont mind a bit of maintenance a couple of times a year. Personally I would go for Hopes (although loud) or XTR's however I think your choice if built well will do fine. My Ogre was built with bikepacking/touring in mind and I went with Stans which are pretty popular in the UK especially the Arch and Crest types.

  6. #1006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rahoodi View Post
    Hi potahal

    Yes it is an 18" frame. The Ogre is a very versatile platform and fun to ride. Despite being a bit heavy it is quite nimble and I think will be fine for commuter/touring and a bit of singletrack. Choices of tyres, racks etc for each of your needs can be fun. The wheelset you mentioned sounds reasonable. The rims and spokes should be fine although I would get a proffessional to build them for you if budget allows. Shimano SLX are good affordable hubs provided you dont mind a bit of maintenance a couple of times a year. Personally I would go for Hopes (although loud) or XTR's however I think your choice if built well will do fine. My Ogre was built with bikepacking/touring in mind and I went with Stans which are pretty popular in the UK especially the Arch and Crest types.
    Yes Hope hubs and Stans rims would be nice, but well outside my budget, besides I think the Stans rim would probably be too wide to run 700x32c tyres which is the size I plan to use for commuting duties. Pretty sure I can put 32-35mm tyres on the xm319 rim without too much trouble .
    No don't mind maintaining cup and cone bearings in the hubs.
    I'll be building the wheels myself, following Roger Mussons book.

  7. #1007
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    Quote Originally Posted by potahal View Post
    Yes Hope hubs and Stans rims would be nice, but well outside my budget, besides I think the Stans rim would probably be too wide to run 700x32c tyres which is the size I plan to use for commuting duties. Pretty sure I can put 32-35mm tyres on the xm319 rim without too much trouble .
    No don't mind maintaining cup and cone bearings in the hubs.
    I'll be building the wheels myself, following Roger Mussons book.
    Cool! Would love to see some pics when its built in each mode. The Tarnish Grey colour I was sceptical about when I ordered my frame but I really like it now. Its much better in the flesh than from pics on the internet.

  8. #1008
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    Quote Originally Posted by iphilrive View Post
    i was browsing online and found a midwest swap website and someone posted an 18' ogre i had to snag it up! so i'm currently building two camping bikes a his and a hers!
    Lucky! I'm having no luck finding someone looking to get rid of their Ogre around here.
    '94 RSBikes Stampede (commuter), '05 Prophet, '09 Scattante XRL Team, '10 Slice 4
    Retired: 97 C-DaleSuper-V, 05 C-Dale R5000

  9. #1009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwayne View Post
    Lucky! I'm having no luck finding someone looking to get rid of their Ogre around here.
    I've been seriously considering getting rid of mine. It's completely built-up though. I was thinking about tearing it down and listing the frame/fork on eBay or Craigslist, because it'd be a lot easier to ask a lower price than a complete.

    What are they going for used? Mine's an 18" Black, but maybe I just don't like my IGH (the only way I've ever ridden it).

    Is it better to sell a frameset, or a complete (all new components)? I just gravitate to the Troll every time, and the Ogre is collecting dust.

    I guess I should figure this out.

  10. #1010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gritter View Post
    I've been seriously considering getting rid of mine. .
    I'd send you a PM, but you have them disabled.
    '94 RSBikes Stampede (commuter), '05 Prophet, '09 Scattante XRL Team, '10 Slice 4
    Retired: 97 C-DaleSuper-V, 05 C-Dale R5000

  11. #1011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwayne View Post
    I'd send you a PM, but you have them disabled.
    Oops, PM sent. Here's how it's currently configured:


  12. #1012
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    i sold mine complete on craigslist....
    i even sold it with the front and rear racks, frame bags, gas tank bag and ortleib panniers.
    had it up less than a week before someone snagged it.
    was a 20" army green....

  13. #1013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gritter View Post
    Oops, PM sent. Here's how it's currently configured:

    you wanna part it out? i'm curious about the profile set-up! and thats probably all i'll want...
    instagram: _skinnytwig #justpedal

  14. #1014
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    ogre soon!

    surly ogre-image-2.jpgsurly ogre-image-3.jpg

    chris king bottom bracket deore 11-36 10 speed and deore long cage rear derailleur!
    instagram: _skinnytwig #justpedal

  15. #1015
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    Quote Originally Posted by iphilrive View Post
    chris king bottom bracket deore 11-36 10 speed and deore long cage rear derailleur!
    Nice build!
    Just wondering, I read somewhere that shadow-type derailleurs make it a bit more difficult to remove the read wheel when it comes to changing a flat, I have the choice of either a shadow (slx) and standard (alivio) derailleur for my build and was wondering if what I had read was true. Anyone got any experience with this?

  16. #1016
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    Quote Originally Posted by potahal View Post
    Nice build!
    Just wondering, I read somewhere that shadow-type derailleurs make it a bit more difficult to remove the read wheel when it comes to changing a flat, I have the choice of either a shadow (slx) and standard (alivio) derailleur for my build and was wondering if what I had read was true. Anyone got any experience with this?
    i don't know man i just go with what i like! i don't buy bottom of the barrel shit though. i look at it as spending and extra $60 saves you in the long run though. quality vs. quantity
    instagram: _skinnytwig #justpedal

  17. #1017
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    it's trickier using a shadow yes but not impossible. i keep a bit of extra "fat" on my cabling so i tend to make enough room to get it out, not a deal breaker. shimano don't make many non-shadow rear mechs in their better class of rear mechs.

  18. #1018
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveJfromtheSwitch View Post
    it's trickier using a shadow yes but not impossible. i keep a bit of extra "fat" on my cabling so i tend to make enough room to get it out, not a deal breaker. shimano don't make many non-shadow rear mechs in their better class of rear mechs.
    Yeah you're right they don't in 10-speed. I was thinking of 9-speed stuff since I still run that on most of my bikes, there is still some pretty good 9-speed stuff available, both xt (RD-M771) and deore (RD-M591) come in a straight pull version.

  19. #1019
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    Just planning out my build and reading the Surly website it says I need a special disc brake adaptor for the rear brake, does this come with the frameset?
    What about a set of monkey nuts are they also included?
    Thanks.

  20. #1020
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    yep, both come with the frameset

  21. #1021
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    Could somebody with an Ogre/KM and some reasonably big tires [2.3"+] measure from the ground to the center of your BB for me please? Thanks!
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  22. #1022
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Could somebody with an Ogre/KM and some reasonably big tires [2.3"+] measure from the ground to the center of your BB for me please? Thanks!
    The center of the BB on my 11 KM sits 307mm from the floor. My monkey is currently wearing 2.35" Big Apples.
    Spinymouse

    11 KM SS
    13 CC Rando-Check
    13 Pugsley

  23. #1023
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    My older KM with the 2.35 Big Apples is 12", 307mm

  24. #1024
    ECR
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    At 12"/307mm aren't you guys constantly striking your pedals on rocks and stuff?

  25. #1025
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    Thanks for the BB heights....

    For another data point my Krampus with 3" tires sits at 12" BB height with me on it.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  26. #1026
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECR View Post
    At 12"/307mm aren't you guys constantly striking your pedals on rocks and stuff?
    Not particularly. And there's no shortage of rocks, roots, etc. where I ride.

    Do other rigid mountain bikes have higher bottom brackets?
    Spinymouse

    11 KM SS
    13 CC Rando-Check
    13 Pugsley

  27. #1027
    ECR
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    There's a couple out there

    BB Height Comparrisons w/stock tires:
    12.85 Krampus w/Knard 3.0 (15.25 - 2.4)
    12.55 Instigator w/Dirt Wizard 2.75 (13.75 - 1.2)
    12.15 ECR w/Knard 3.0 (15.25 - 3.1)
    12.15 Karate Monkey w/Maxxis Ardent 2.4 (14.85 - 2.7)
    12.00 Ogre w/WTB Nano Comp 2.1 (14.70 - 2.7)

  28. #1028
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECR View Post
    There's a couple out there

    BB Height Comparrisons w/stock tires:
    12.85 Krampus w/Knard 3.0 (15.25 - 2.4)
    12.55 Instigator w/Dirt Wizard 2.75 (13.75 - 1.2)
    12.15 ECR w/Knard 3.0 (15.25 - 3.1)
    12.15 Karate Monkey w/Maxxis Ardent 2.4 (14.85 - 2.7)
    12.00 Ogre w/WTB Nano Comp 2.1 (14.70 - 2.7)
    My Krampus with RH's and Knards has a BB height of 12.5" with no rider on the bike and 12" with me on the bike.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spinymouse View Post
    The center of the BB on my 11 KM sits 307mm from the floor. My monkey is currently wearing 2.35" Big Apples.
    and another measured data point.

    ....seems like the geo chart numbers are high compared to real world.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  29. #1029
    ECR
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    My Krampus with RH's and Knards has a BB height of 12.5" with no rider on the bike and 12" with me on the bike

    ....seems like the geo chart numbers are high compared to real world.
    You saying your Krampus doesn't actually have 2.4 BB Drop as advertised? Are you sure the discrepancy isn't coming from diameter of your tires? How much air you running and how worn are your tires?

    779.4mm/30.69" at 19psi..
    Your Rabbit Hole Looks Knardy | Surly Bikes



  30. #1030
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECR View Post
    You saying your Krampus doesn't actually have 2.4 BB Drop as advertised? Are you sure the discrepancy isn't coming from diameter of your tires? How much air you running and how worn are your tires?

    779.4mm/30.69" at 19psi..
    Your Rabbit Hole Looks Knardy | Surly Bikes


    I'm measuring the BB height directly not calculating from a chart.

    Tires and rims are stock Surly parts. Air pressure [within reason is irrelevant on an unloaded bike], but it's set at 16-19 psi what I ride it at.

    Tires have lots of tread. Not brand new, but not crazy worn.

    The BB heights reported by other folks for Surly bikes is a bit lower than calculated. So that leads me to believe the charts are off a tad.

    Ultimately what matters is the real world BB height. Not a spec sheet number.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  31. #1031
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    FWIW, I measured by propping my bike up as straight as I could, then took a measurement on each side of the bike, and averaged the two measurements. I did this twice and was within a mm each time. So, I'm pretty confident that 307 mm is a reasonably accurate answer.

    Could the slick tread of the Big Apples my KM is wearing now have taken a few mm off my BB height, versus the same nominal size knobby tires?
    Spinymouse

    11 KM SS
    13 CC Rando-Check
    13 Pugsley

  32. #1032
    iphilrive
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    Finally!

    Finally finished my ogre! With one small problem, i need to find a rear 10 speed derailleur that works with these 10 speed microshift thumbies anyone know of anything?

    surly ogre-image-2.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails surly ogre-image.jpg  

    instagram: _skinnytwig #justpedal

  33. #1033
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    Hmmm, what are you using now?

  34. #1034
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    Quote Originally Posted by iphilrive View Post
    Finally finished my ogre! With one small problem, i need to find a rear 10 speed derailleur that works with these 10 speed microshift thumbies anyone know of anything?
    If they are SL-A10, they should work with Shimano.

  35. #1035
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    Their 10 speed thumbies should be the same as the 10 speed shifters that i have on my "retroshift" shifters on my Crosscheck. I'm also running 10 speed on the rear, from memory you need a 9 speed rear mech to make it work, otherwise it doesn't play nice with the dynasys stuff.

    back me up anyone?

  36. #1036
    iphilrive
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    deore
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  37. #1037
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    yeah its deore dynasys. i read somewhere after i purchased them that they are like a 3.2mm pull and non-dynasys is like 1.2mm?
    instagram: _skinnytwig #justpedal

  38. #1038
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    Steve is right. You need a 9 speed shimano mountain rear mech to work with the thumbies. Sweet bike by the way!

  39. #1039
    iphilrive
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    and i can't use a 9 speed for a 10 speed cassette! thanks!
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  40. #1040
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    pretty sure you just need a "non dyna sys" ie standard 9 speed rear mech to work with it. the thumbies share the same 10 speed road spacing or 9 speed mtb spacing, change your rear mech to 9 speed deore (or similar) and you're good.
    That's what i didn

  41. #1041
    They see me rolling.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iphilrive View Post
    and i can't use a 9 speed for a 10 speed cassette! thanks!
    The 9 speed rear derailleur will work fine with a 10 speed cassette. The 10 speed thumbies use the Shimano road pull ratio, which is the same ratio as Shimano 9 speed mountain.

  42. #1042
    ECR
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    The BB heights reported by other folks for Surly bikes is a bit lower than calculated. So that leads me to believe the charts are off a tad.
    Sorry to hear of your dilema

  43. #1043
    iphilrive
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    will i have to change the chain and everything?
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  44. #1044
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    Quote Originally Posted by iphilrive View Post
    will i have to change the chain and everything?
    No, a 10 speed chain will work fine with a 9 speed derailleur.

    Enjoy your ogre

  45. #1045
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    nope, just the rear mech

  46. #1046
    iphilrive
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveJfromtheSwitch View Post
    nope, just the rear mech

    thanks! you two!
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  47. #1047
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    Quote Originally Posted by iphilrive View Post
    will i have to change the chain and everything?
    No just replace your derailleur with something like
    Shimano Deore M591 9 Speed Rear Mech | Chain Reaction Cycles
    Shimano XT M771 9 Speed Rear Mech | Chain Reaction Cycles

  48. #1048
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECR View Post
    Sorry to hear of your dilema
    I don't have a dilemma. What are you talking about???
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  49. #1049
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECR View Post
    At 12"/307mm aren't you guys constantly striking your pedals on rocks and stuff?
    Not me - anything over 300mm feels too high, and I like 295mm better. Of course this depends on where and how you ride, and what sort of cranks and pedals you have. I use Speedplay Frogs, but with larger platform pedals there are likely to be problems away from fire trails.

  50. #1050
    iphilrive
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    anyone fit a rabbit hole and a knard in the front of an ogre?
    instagram: _skinnytwig #justpedal

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