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  1. #1
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    Surly Horizontal Dropouts and Quick Release Axle Hubs

    It's not exactly pretty, it's not exactly light, but in the few years I've used this set up I've never had a wheel move on me in the dropouts. When I remove and reinstall my wheel there is no brake realignment needed, the wheel is in the same spot everytime. YMMV.

    Surly Tuggnut and Chariot Trailers QR
    Surly Dropouts

    QR Adaptor Washer
    Surly Dropouts

    Lots of thread for the quality QR nut
    Surly Dropouts

    All tightened.
    Surly Dropouts

  2. #2
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    Nice, although I will say that mine has not slipped with no tugnut using XT skewers. I pull a Chariot trailer on my other bike, so I may have to pick up that longer skewer for that bike (has vert drops), as there isn't a comfortable amount of threads showing.

  3. #3
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    I still say track ends + gears are a big PITA.

    I need to remind myself of this periodically when Troll or KM fever overtakes me.
    FS: Chinese carbony goodness, trade for a steel frame?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by seat_boy View Post
    I still say track ends + gears are a big PITA.

    I need to remind myself of this periodically when Troll or KM fever overtakes me.
    After many years of using track ends and still having 2 bikes with them in the garage, I'm really starting to like the horizontal dropouts. The issue with the track ends, even running them SS is that if you want to run them far forward (for shorter CS), its sometimes hard to get the chain off. With horizontal drops, it's simply just sliding them off.

    But of course my still favorite is EBB with vert drops. Easy and clean.

  5. #5
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    Yeah, my favorite is my CC with it's horizontal dropouts. The only downside is the fender line isn't super clean, but it's not bad.

    I recently picked up a Niner SIR9. I've found it's bio-centric 2 EBB very easy to adjust--just one bolt. So far, I like it even better than the famed pinch bolt EBB.


    Quote Originally Posted by phsycle View Post
    After many years of using track ends and still having 2 bikes with them in the garage, I'm really starting to like the horizontal dropouts. The issue with the track ends, even running them SS is that if you want to run them far forward (for shorter CS), its sometimes hard to get the chain off. With horizontal drops, it's simply just sliding them off.

    But of course my still favorite is EBB with vert drops. Easy and clean.
    FS: Chinese carbony goodness, trade for a steel frame?

  6. #6
    Unhinged Aussie on a 29er
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    Probably why Surly changed the dropouts for the Straggler. So you could slide it forward if you wanted to, with ease.

  7. #7
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    The choice of derailleur helps in the ease of wheel removal. The Shadow type are a no go.

  8. #8
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    Removing and installing the wheel is definitely a PITA with Surly (and similar) dropouts and a rear derailleur. The solution I found is to break my chain by the powerlink and pull it out of the cassette and derailleur. It's messy, but makes removing and installing the wheel so much easier. I used to take out the QR skewer to get the axle past the derailleur before and would struggle to get everything in place. If your chain has a powerlink I definitely suggest giving this a shot. In a short amout of time I was able to do this quicker than removing/installing the wheel with the chain on.
    Last edited by sasquatch rides a SS; 09-23-2013 at 03:44 PM. Reason: typos and additions

  9. #9
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    Thank, I'll keep this in mind as a good mental illustration of why I hate this combo!

    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch rides a SS View Post
    Removing the wheel is definitely a PITA with Surly (and similar) dropouts. The solution I found is to break my chain by the powerlink and pull it out of the cassette and derailleur. It's messy, but makes removing the wheel so much easier. I usually had to take out the QR skewer to get the axle past the derailleur before and would struggle to get everything in place. If you chain has a powerlink I definitely suggest giving this a shot. In a short about of time I was able to do this quicker than removing/installing the wheel with the chain on.
    FS: Chinese carbony goodness, trade for a steel frame?

  10. #10
    Unhinged Aussie on a 29er
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    It's not that bad.

    How I do it:
    1. Shift to the smallest cog.
    2. Remove QR skewer all the way.
    3. Pull wheel backwards and up (once free of the fork ends).
    4. Manually derail chain with your hand once clear of the frame. Use a monkey grip to make it a little easier.

  11. #11
    Rider down under
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    I've had this forward sliding issue a few times but fortunately it seems to have stopped
    Aside from its beer opening potential that tuggnut seems a bit over engineered to me.
    I quite like the look of this solution:
    Hurdy Gurdy

  12. #12
    Unhinged Aussie on a 29er
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugor View Post
    I've had this forward sliding issue a few times but fortunately it seems to have stopped
    Aside from its beer opening potential that tuggnut seems a bit over engineered to me.
    I quite like the look of this solution:
    Hurdy Gurdy
    I don't think the Hurdy Gurdy will work on fork ends. It has a nodule that rests on the back of a horizontal dropout. On a fork end, that area doesn't have any material (because it's the opening). You can see it pretty clearly here:
    http://surlybikes.com/uploads/downlo...ructions_w.pdf

    There are several chain tensioners with a lot less material suited for fork ends. An example is the DMR chain tensioner:
    Amazon.com: DMR 10mm Chain Tugs with derailleur hanger, Pair: Sports & Outdoors

    You can also get that in the non-hanger version. I'm not sure why Surly went with their approach. Perhaps a wider range of adjustment?

  13. #13
    Rider down under
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter006 View Post
    I don't think the Hurdy Gurdy will work on fork ends. It has a nodule that rests on the back of a horizontal dropout. On a fork end, that area doesn't have any material (because it's the opening). You can see it pretty clearly here:
    Surly Bikes
    Thanks. Didn't appreciate that it was only for forward facing dropouts.
    Glad I didn't order one.

  14. #14
    Jon BALER
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    I have a Surly Krampus, geared, with track drop-outs, and shadow derailleur. I run the wheel all the way forward, so don't need a chaintug. I don't have to remove the QR or disconnect the chain to get the wheel on and off.

    Getting the wheel in and out, is not that bad. Shift into the smallest gear, and pull straight back to get it out. Once out of the drops, simply pull the chain off the cassette.

    To re-insert the wheel is a little trickier and not as intuitive, but easy once you figure it out. The trick is to pull extra length of chain back with your finger, so the chain is on the cassette, before the QR gets to the drop-outs.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugor View Post
    I've had this forward sliding issue a few times but fortunately it seems to have stopped
    Aside from its beer opening potential that tuggnut seems a bit over engineered to me.
    I quite like the look of this solution:
    Hurdy Gurdy
    I have these on my Cross Check and Karate Monkey, and no issues with slipping. This is even a more elegant solution than the tugnuts.

    Halo Hex Key Bolt-On Skewers in Tree Fort Bikes QR Skewer (mtn) (cat427)

  16. #16
    Jon BALER
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    For my Karate Monkey and other single speed bikes with track drop-outs, the Redline Chain tensioners are a good value and relatively easy to find.

    REDLINE BICYCLES ? CHAIN TENSIONERS

  17. #17
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    10x135 axle

    As a possible solution to the wheel removal difficulties, would a 10x135 hub and 10mm through axle help?
    For example a Shimano Zee FH-M640


    And a through-bolt quick release such as the dt-swiss rws


    I am in the process of getting parts together to build a Surly Ogre and was wondering if the above is a viable solution to making wheel removal easier, any thoughts??
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