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Thread: Surly ECR

  1. #1
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    Surly ECR

    Just reading about the new Surly ECR:

    ECR | Bikes | Surly Bikes

    Was about to snag an Ogre for a new around town (mostly) build, but this ECR looks like the Ogre, with the option of running even fatter tires.

    I like it. ...Move over Ogre?

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    The biggest downside against the ECR is that you need a specialized set of wheels to run the really wide stuff, and then you can't run narrower tires when needed. The ECR looks like an awesome bike but it definitely seems like more of a one trick pony. And can't you fit 2.5s on an Ogre anyways?

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    Buying new, it's hard to see getting an Ogre over an ECR. You can run all the tires and wheels from the Ogre in the ECR, plus more. I expect the ECR to cost more, but that's about all the downside I can see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_papa_nuts View Post
    The biggest downside against the ECR is that you need a specialized set of wheels to run the really wide stuff, and then you can't run narrower tires when needed. The ECR looks like an awesome bike but it definitely seems like more of a one trick pony. And can't you fit 2.5s on an Ogre anyways?
    Thinking a bit more about this...

    ...I have a Speedway ti' Fatback, so the fat urge is definitely satisfied. And given the fact that this new build is intended to primarily be a city/commuter setup, with something like Big Apples being the biggest/heaviest thing I'd probably spec for that setup, the Ogre might be the smarter choice.

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    Get the ECR or a Krampus. You can roll around town on Big Apples if you like and although you want it for a commuter today you may well be stoked at having a 29+ rig before too long.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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    Yeah, I no longer see a need for the ogre. The 3" tires work well(according to some reviews/personal anecdotes) on 35mm+ rims which gives plenty of tire options. IE anything you'd want to run on a big mountain bike.

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    The krampus/ ECR only accommodates a single chainring, and if you want to use a double ring so you can use a granny gear, it has to be a special crankset made by surly; I was planning to modify the rear cassette by removing the 3 smallest cogs so that it will move outwards and allow the use of a "normal" dual chainring crankset but I can't seem to find the thread about it at the moment

    I think for all-around riding/ touring, the ogre is still it, I put a triple ring XT touring crankset with 48-36-26 teeth on my son's ogre and it really hauls, although my setup uses front and rear surly racks, so it can get really heavy, which is really not noticeable when you're out riding

    That being said, vikb has been using his krampus for touring and his setup is super, including frame bags and seatpost bags, etc

    Why not get both? You won't regret it, for sure...

    ;-)
    biker boy

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    Comparing geometries between the Krampus and ECR, it looks like the ECR is NOT just a Krampus with more braze-ons. I like the shorter ETT of the ECR. I'm curious about the BB Drop listed for the ECR though - 80mm seems like alot. I understand that it does roll 3-inch tires, so the net effect is not the same as an 80mm drop on a standard 29er, but it still sounds like alot.

    Anyone have the capability of measuring the BB height on the ECR?
    Enjoy the ride!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bb1mina View Post
    The krampus/ ECR only accommodates a single chainring, and if you want to use a double ring so you can use a granny gear, it has to be a special crankset made by surly;
    I'm using an IGH which is perfect for exploring on a bike far from a shop to buy a spare derailleur and you can dial in the low gearing pretty well even with a Alfine 8 - although a more expensive Rohloff gives you both ends of the gearing range with zero hassles.

    The ECR complete comes with a Surly dual ring OD crank and could be worth buying to get the OEM discount on parts. The Rabbit Hole/Knard wheels are expensive to build custom.

    Quote Originally Posted by LBIkid View Post
    Comparing geometries between the Krampus and ECR, it looks like the ECR is NOT just a Krampus with more braze-ons. I like the shorter ETT of the ECR. I'm curious about the BB Drop listed for the ECR though - 80mm seems like alot. I understand that it does roll 3-inch tires, so the net effect is not the same as an 80mm drop on a standard 29er, but it still sounds like alot.

    Anyone have the capability of measuring the BB height on the ECR?
    The ECR has a shorter fork and a skinny HT which will limit your suspension for choices. The BB drop will make for a more touring friendly bike at the expense of pedal clearance in rough techy terrain.

    Somebody at Interbike could probably measure the BB height for you if you can get their attention.

    BTW - the Krampus can take dual racks and panniers without breaking a sweat as well as get loaded up with soft bikepacking bags. So I wouldn't discount it as a touring bike or a MTB you can run errands with.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I'm using an IGH which is perfect for exploring on a bike far from a shop to buy a spare derailleur and you can dial in the low gearing pretty well even with a Alfine 8 - although a more expensive Rohloff gives you both ends of the gearing range with zero hassles.

    The ECR complete comes with a Surly dual ring OD crank and could be worth buying to get the OEM discount on parts. The Rabbit Hole/Knard wheels are expensive to build custom.



    The ECR has a shorter fork and a skinny HT which will limit your suspension for choices. The BB drop will make for a more touring friendly bike at the expense of pedal clearance in rough techy terrain.

    Somebody at Interbike could probably measure the BB height for you if you can get their attention.

    BTW - the Krampus can take dual racks and panniers without breaking a sweat as well as get loaded up with soft bikepacking bags. So I wouldn't discount it as a touring bike or a MTB you can run errands with.
    Thanks for the info, Vik. If I pulled the ol' trigger on an ECR + Rohloff, what width rims would you recommend...given the following use case:

    - ECR will spend majority of it's life as an urban hauler/huckster bike
    - but, would love to swap tires to knobs and hit the dirt with the ECR once in a while

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    "The krampus/ ECR only accommodates a single chainring, and if you want to use a double ring so you can use a granny gear, it has to be a special crankset made by surly..."

    This isn't exactly true. I'm running an XT double on my Krampus with Velocity P35's/Knards and am not having any problems using the small chainring and the 36 out back. YMMV with Rabbit Hole rims.

    If you're willing to run a square taper crankset and a bottom bracket with an extra-long long spindle length I'm guessing you might even be able to run a triple.
    Last edited by jnroyal; 09-17-2013 at 01:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mangoman View Post
    Thanks for the info, Vik. If I pulled the ol' trigger on an ECR + Rohloff, what width rims would you recommend...given the following use case:

    - ECR will spend majority of it's life as an urban hauler/huckster bike
    - but, would love to swap tires to knobs and hit the dirt with the ECR once in a while
    Velocity Blunt 35's give you a good range of tire options from 2.35"- 3".

    I've run Knards with tubes on the older narrower Stans Flow rims and it worked fine. Those tires feel more stable on a wider Rabbit Hole rim, but I wouldn't hesitate to run the Flows again if necessary so the Blunt 35s should be a great compromise.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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    XT cranks 2 x 10 double with Knards on Rabbit Holes here, no issues

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    I knew "The One" silliness wouldn't last long, you're going to end up right back where you started with a full fleet! :P

    P.S. You can't have your Rohloff back...


    Quote Originally Posted by mangoman View Post
    Thanks for the info, Vik. If I pulled the ol' trigger on an ECR + Rohloff, what width rims would you recommend...given the following use case:

    - ECR will spend majority of it's life as an urban hauler/huckster bike
    - but, would love to swap tires to knobs and hit the dirt with the ECR once in a while

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    Heading to Interbike tomorrow and would be happy to measure for you if someone else doesn't first.

    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Somebody at Interbike could probably measure the BB height for you if you can get their attention.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LBIkid View Post
    Comparing geometries between the Krampus and ECR, it looks like the ECR is NOT just a Krampus with more braze-ons. I like the shorter ETT of the ECR.
    Note that the top tube length of the ECR equals that of one-size-smaller Krampus. So a medium Krampus effectively equals a large ECR.

    The real differences between the frames appear to be the A-C length of the fork, the number of braze-ons, and a very small difference in CS length.

    FWIW, I just finished ride #3 on my Krampus and love it.

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    SteveM
    Did you use the supplied monkey nuts?

    Is there enough chain clearance from the tires with a granny gear-36T cog combination?

    Really interested in this, as an IGH setup like vikB's is not available in my place
    biker boy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenanigans View Post
    I knew "The One" silliness wouldn't last long, you're going to end up right back where you started with a full fleet! :P

    P.S. You can't have your Rohloff back...
    This made me laugh out loud. Two times.

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    In my mind it comes down to head tube angle.

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    180mm cranks on the XXL... Bravo Surly!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenanigans View Post
    Heading to Interbike tomorrow and would be happy to measure for you if someone else doesn't first.
    That would be fantastic, if you don't mind. As with most Surly stuff, it'll be hard for me to find a complete ECR in shops near me to measure it myself. Thanks!
    Enjoy the ride!

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    FWIW - I scored a medium Krampus based on Eff TT and wheelbase.

    It fits fine, but the bike doesn't feel as big as the numbers. I'd probably get a large if I was starting again.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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    My girlfriend is 5'7 with an inseam 32'
    Is it possible she could fit on a medium , or wil toptube be too big
    We are from Europe and testriding is not very easy , with only a few dealers
    Thanks for your opinions

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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Velocity Blunt 35's give you a good range of tire options from 2.35"- 3".

    I've run Knards with tubes on the older narrower Stans Flow rims and it worked fine. Those tires feel more stable on a wider Rabbit Hole rim, but I wouldn't hesitate to run the Flows again if necessary so the Blunt 35s should be a great compromise.
    Another option are the new Velocity Dually's. They measure 45mm so the Knards will probably be close to max width. They are in production right now and should be out real soon.

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    I rode the ECR at the release in Utah. I was between the Ogre and the ECR. I Pre-ordered the ECR because you get everything the Ogre has plus! And no Canti mounts!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by surlywhore View Post
    I rode the ECR at the release in Utah. I was between the Ogre and the ECR. I Pre-ordered the ECR because you get everything the Ogre has plus! And no Canti mounts!!!
    So what is the retail cost and when are they "planning" on the 1st batch being available?

    I'm going to talk to my local dealer tomorrow!

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    Quote Originally Posted by vaultbrad View Post
    Yeah, I no longer see a need for the ogre.
    The more I think about it the more I kinda leaning the other way. Realistically if you get into a situation where you need both racks and 3 inch wide 29er tires I doubt your gonna be in a place where you can get replacement tires easily for those rims. The only situation I could think of where an ECR would be preferable to an Ogre or Krampus would be a tour of fire roads with the chance of snowy passes, in the US or western Europe. Otherwise give me the more capable Krampus (although I'd like to see cage mounts on the fork) or the more practical Ogre or Troll.

    I really want to like the ECR, I actually do love it in a weird sort of way, but I just can't see a point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by senor_mikey View Post
    So what is the retail cost and when are they "planning" on the 1st batch being available?

    I'm going to talk to my local dealer tomorrow!
    Not sure about cost, but mid December is what I've heard.

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    [QUOTE=senor_mikey;10691053]So what is the retail cost and when are they "planning" on the 1st batch being available?

    I think they said $2100 for the complete. I ordered the frame set, I'm going to set it up as a commuter for the winter, then get RH's and Dirt Wizards for next summer to do the Colorado Trail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_papa_nuts View Post
    The more I think about it the more I kinda leaning the other way. Realistically if you get into a situation where you need both racks and 3 inch wide 29er tires I doubt your gonna be in a place where you can get replacement tires easily for those rims.
    You can put "normal" 2.4" 29er rubber on a rabbit hole rim if you want/need to.

    Lots of people are riding 29+ or fatbikes in places with little to no tire resupply options.

    You can also equip a Krampus with dual racks without much issue. I've added a water bottle to my stem and downtube on the Krampus. I could add two more to the fork legs, but I have enough water and like to keep the bike narrow.

    If I was doing it over I would get the Krampus again, but if you dig the ECR I see no reason not to get it.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattbryant2 View Post
    In my mind it comes down to head tube angle.
    I'm confused? The Surly site lists both the Krampus and ECR as having the same HTA.
    But Guitar Ted said that the Surly rep indicated the ECR had a steeper HTA.

    I wonder whose right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by senor_mikey View Post
    I'm confused? The Surly site lists both the Krampus and ECR as having the same HTA.
    But Guitar Ted said that the Surly rep indicated the ECR had a steeper HTA.
    My response was addressing the comparison between the ECR and the Ogre, not the ECR and the Krampus.

    But I did catch that quote from the Surly rep, and was disappointed by the head tube angle (ECR) as listed on the Surly website.

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    So, was anyone able to grab a BB height measurement during Interbike, or otherwise be in the know? I'm still pretty curious about how an 80mm BB drop translates to BB height with 29 x 3.0 tires. Thanks!
    Enjoy the ride!

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    For some reason I had in mind that I was supposed to measure the Krampus not the ECR. Which in hindsight makes no sense since there's plenty of people here that have them to measure.

    Krampus was hanging on the wall so I figured I couldn't measure it and then I got distracted by the Straggler and new Big Dummy accessories. Sorry.


    Quote Originally Posted by LBIkid View Post
    So, was anyone able to grab a BB height measurement during Interbike, or otherwise be in the know? I'm still pretty curious about how an 80mm BB drop translates to BB height with 29 x 3.0 tires. Thanks!

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    My favorite meaning for the acronym I've come up with so far:

    Explore Camp Repeat

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    Escape Camper RVs.

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    Eat Cookies Regularly.

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    My favorite one yet!

    Quote Originally Posted by rusheleven View Post
    My favorite meaning for the acronym I've come up with so far:

    Explore Camp Repeat

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    spotted this on the web this morning...ECR Frameset w/price.

    Surly ECR Frameset LG Dark Green - Kozy's Chicago Bike Shops | Chicago Bike Stores, Bicycles, Cycling, Bike Repair

    not available but just having it posted means it's coming soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vitaly66 View Post
    Eat Cookies Regularly.
    Yes!
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    Looking at the specs on this bike, it looks like the BB drop is 20mm more than the Krampus. I'm considering one of them for the 29+ option, but would also like to be able to run a second set of narrower rims and something like a 622-42 tire for bikepacking where there is more pavement involved.

    I'm worrying about the BB being too low in that situation. The higher setup of the Krampus keeps looking appealing, given the positive press it's gotten in the bikepacking dimension (I'm looking at you, Vik!).

    Any thoughts?

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    I wouldn't worry about 80 mm of BB drop on the road. That's what a Riv Atlantis has and I have friends who ride off road all the time with no issues with 42mm tires.

    I personally prefer a lower BB as it lowers the center of gravity. It seems to me that the Krampus with a 3" tire and 60 mm of drop is on the high side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clydesdale Clint View Post
    I'm worrying about the BB being too low in that situation. The higher setup of the Krampus keeps looking appealing, given the positive press it's gotten in the bikepacking dimension (I'm looking at you, Vik!).

    Any thoughts?
    I live in an area with rocky terrain so I don't want a low BB on a bikepacking rig. I can fit front and rear racks on my Krampus if I want to and I like the option to fit any fork I choose with the large headtube. I can carry water bottles on my fork and down tube without any problems.

    I've bombed logging roads at 50kph+ on the Krampus and the stability is great.

    There really isn't any feature of the ECR that I find particularly interesting.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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    Vik, what are you using for racks on the Krampus? I've been kicking around the ECR vs Krampus vs Straggler choice. Already have a Beargrease so not looking to overlap too much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ticketchecker View Post
    Vik, what are you using for racks on the Krampus? I've been kicking around the ECR vs Krampus vs Straggler choice. Already have a Beargrease so not looking to overlap too much.


    My racks of choice are OMM [Old Man Mountain] racks. I've used them for over a decade with a great deal of satisfaction.

    They are highly versatile so I can move them from bike to bike. Fitting them to my fatbike, suspension mountain bike and Krampus has all been straight forward.

    They are also made in the US if that sort of thing matters to you.

    I could put an OMM front rack on the Krampus in about 5mins.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post






    They are also made in the US if that sort of thing matters to you.
    thanks, that matters plenty to me

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    Quote Originally Posted by ticketchecker View Post
    thanks, that matters plenty to me
    BTW - if you contact them they will hook you up with any mounting hardware you need. I have a bunch of OMM parts since I own several of their racks and I mix and match brackets to get the rack positioned where I want it on each bike.

    If you buy a rack and want the rack in a different position than the stock parts don't hesitate to call them. They are great guys and will sort you out.

    For a slightly odd bike like the Krampus you nay well want a non-stock set of brackets.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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    So, talk me out of this...

    I ride about 70% of my miles in a mix of paved/gravel/dirt to commute to work. (Over 80% of those mileage IS paved, however. Gravel/dirt ends up being shortcuts or connectors).
    Other 30% of mileage would be for off-road only and in the bikepacking/touring context.


    So, I'd set up a Krampus with something like a 40/28 + 11-36 gearing and run two wheelsets. One 'cross type wheelset that could do anything from 28mm road tires to 42mm beefier cross/touring tires. The other would be Rabbit Holes to run 2.4" to 3.0" mountain tires to Knards. Covers most bases, right?

    I'd been previously thinking either Salsa Fargo or ECR, but I'm with Vik in the "ECR doesn't seem to offer me anything over Krampus" category. The Fargo's appeal is maybe a little less weight and drop bars. I like the drop bar 29er feel, having test ridden the Fargo a bit. The Fargo loses out on the 29+ option and requires less finagling to do racks.

    So, Krampus with two wheelsets = One Bike to Rule them All for my riding style? Thoughts?


    Posing the same question to the LBS, the owner (a devout Krampus convert) seemed to say that he'd ride Knards "everywhere all the time, road or otherwise". I'm not sure what the durability of these tires on the road is, but I'm pretty sure I don't want to be dropping hundreds of bucks on tires for my 80-100 miles of road commuting each week during peak season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clydesdale Clint View Post
    So, talk me out of this...

    I ride about 70% of my miles in a mix of paved/gravel/dirt to commute to work. (Over 80% of those mileage IS paved, however. Gravel/dirt ends up being shortcuts or connectors).
    Other 30% of mileage would be for off-road only and in the bikepacking/touring context.


    So, I'd set up a Krampus with something like a 40/28 + 11-36 gearing and run two wheelsets. One 'cross type wheelset that could do anything from 28mm road tires to 42mm beefier cross/touring tires. The other would be Rabbit Holes to run 2.4" to 3.0" mountain tires to Knards. Covers most bases, right?

    I'd been previously thinking either Salsa Fargo or ECR, but I'm with Vik in the "ECR doesn't seem to offer me anything over Krampus" category. The Fargo's appeal is maybe a little less weight and drop bars. I like the drop bar 29er feel, having test ridden the Fargo a bit. The Fargo loses out on the 29+ option and requires less finagling to do racks.

    So, Krampus with two wheelsets = One Bike to Rule them All for my riding style? Thoughts?


    Posing the same question to the LBS, the owner (a devout Krampus convert) seemed to say that he'd ride Knards "everywhere all the time, road or otherwise". I'm not sure what the durability of these tires on the road is, but I'm pretty sure I don't want to be dropping hundreds of bucks on tires for my 80-100 miles of road commuting each week during peak season.
    You can run a 29+ on the front of a Fargo and a 2.5 out back. Just to make the choice a bit harder for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clydesdale Clint View Post
    So, talk me out of this...

    I ride about 70% of my miles in a mix of paved/gravel/dirt to commute to work. (Over 80% of those mileage IS paved, however. Gravel/dirt ends up being shortcuts or connectors).
    Other 30% of mileage would be for off-road only and in the bikepacking/touring context.


    So, I'd set up a Krampus with something like a 40/28 + 11-36 gearing and run two wheelsets. One 'cross type wheelset that could do anything from 28mm road tires to 42mm beefier cross/touring tires. The other would be Rabbit Holes to run 2.4" to 3.0" mountain tires to Knards. Covers most bases, right?

    I'd been previously thinking either Salsa Fargo or ECR, but I'm with Vik in the "ECR doesn't seem to offer me anything over Krampus" category. The Fargo's appeal is maybe a little less weight and drop bars. I like the drop bar 29er feel, having test ridden the Fargo a bit. The Fargo loses out on the 29+ option and requires less finagling to do racks.

    So, Krampus with two wheelsets = One Bike to Rule them All for my riding style? Thoughts?


    Posing the same question to the LBS, the owner (a devout Krampus convert) seemed to say that he'd ride Knards "everywhere all the time, road or otherwise". I'm not sure what the durability of these tires on the road is, but I'm pretty sure I don't want to be dropping hundreds of bucks on tires for my 80-100 miles of road commuting each week during peak season.
    ECR may provide better clearances for mounting fenders for commuting, and extra bottle cage mounts for backwoods adventures.

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_papa_nuts View Post
    You can run a 29+ on the front of a Fargo and a 2.5 out back. Just to make the choice a bit harder for you.
    Yeah, the thought has occurred to me.

    However, I'm 6'5" and 230lb, so part of the allure of 29+ is the ability to help float my substantial clydesdale mass. I'd want the bigger tire in the rear, too.

    I think I'd be more of a fan of the ECR if I could understand the design objectives a bit better. I just see limitations compared to the Krampus with the exception of front fork braze-ons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattbryant2 View Post
    ECR may provide better clearances for mounting fenders for commuting, and extra bottle cage mounts for backwoods adventures.
    Bottle cages, yes. I get that. (You CAN get a Krampus fork with bottle cage mounts, although it's not the stock one, however).

    Fenders... What? This is touted as a bikepacking bike, so most people are going to have seatbags or handlebar drybags or racks or something to keep the mud/water down. I guess it completes the do-anything nature of the bike, compared to the Krampus.

    Is the geometry designed around the Jones bar, like the Fargo is designed around drops?? That would be a distinguishing factor, but I don't personally know how different the headtube/toptube requirements are for the Jones bar vs. a wide, flat bar.

    I live in the Denver area, where we get so little rain that I never run fenders on anything. Maybe I just don't value that feature enough.

    Bottom line is that I see the Krampus and ECR as a logical step between the Fargo/El Mariachis and the Fat Bikes of the backpacking world. It's hard to see what the differences are between them are, however.

    I'd be happy to put them through the Tall Guy Test Lab, should any Surly reps wish to send me one of each to test.

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    Water bottle cages can be mounted to the stock Krampus fork in 3mins with hose clamps as well as to the downtube and to the stem. This mounting method is secure on rough terrain and is virtually free. They can also be removed quickly for day to day trail riding if you don't want the cages mounted 24/7.

    I wouldn't turn down dedicated water bottle mounts, but I would not pick a bike based on that factor since it's so easy to attach cages in the same spots without them.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Water bottle cages can be mounted to the stock Krampus fork in 3mins with hose clamps as well as to the downtube and to the stem. This mounting method is secure on rough terrain and is virtually free. They can also be removed quickly for day to day trail riding if you don't want the cages mounted 24/7.

    I wouldn't turn down dedicated water bottle mounts, but I would not pick a bike based on that factor since it's so easy to attach cages in the same spots without them.
    And scratch my pretty paint job...

    But seriously, after having a Fargo fork with cage mounts and knowing just how useful those things are I just can't see any good reason why all forks don't have them.

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    I think it depends on the terrain you ride and the intended purpose. Surly categorizes the ECR with it's touring bikes and the Krampus in the MTB section. If you see yourself more as bikepacker and mixed surface rider, the ECR sounds like the right choice.

    I also think it's nearly impossible to compare the two without riding them both.

    I've been fretting over which one to get and am leaning more to the ECR as I'm more of a backcountry explorer/tourer than a huckster.

    mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_papa_nuts View Post
    And scratch my pretty paint job...

    But seriously, after having a Fargo fork with cage mounts and knowing just how useful those things are I just can't see any good reason why all forks don't have them.
    $0.05 of electrical tape will protect your bike's finish.

    The Krampus is a mountain bike and not many mountain bikers want water bottle cages on their forks.

    I use the Krampus mostly for bikepacking and I don't use water bottle cages on the fork.

    So while there are some people who have a use for those braze-ons it's not all that many people.

    And for those that really want them as you point out there are bikes that provide them.
    Safe riding,

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    Quote Originally Posted by senor_mikey View Post
    ...If you see yourself more as bikepacker and mixed surface rider, the ECR sounds like the right choice.

    ...I'm more of a backcountry explorer/tourer than a huckster.

    mike
    I think one's definition of bikepacking and the terrain it entails drives the value here.

    I think Vik's point is really fair. The higher BB to ground clearance on the Krampus is very nice in "backcountry", if your definition includes stuff that requires some pedal/crank clearance.

    The lower BB to ground dimension, fender capability, and straight 1 1/8 fork limitation kinda lead itself more towards a bikepacking definition that includes a lot of easier terrain and less where clearance is going to be an issue. Perhaps the ECR is really the worlds most plush gravel road and easy singletrack tourer with brazeons. If that's your definition of bikepacking, then I can maybe see the value of ECR over Krampus.

    It's also very true that Vik and others are making the Krampus into something outside its original intent (and into more of the ECR design). With a monkey bone and a few hose clamps, one can turn a Krampus into a Rohloff bikepacking machine.

    I'm sure this will all be resolved when Surly sends me a couple to compare head-to-head. XLs, if you please!

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    Quote Originally Posted by senor_mikey View Post
    I think it depends on the terrain you ride and the intended purpose. Surly categorizes the ECR with it's touring bikes and the Krampus in the MTB section. If you see yourself more as bikepacker and mixed surface rider, the ECR sounds like the right choice.

    I also think it's nearly impossible to compare the two without riding them both.

    I've been fretting over which one to get and am leaning more to the ECR as I'm more of a backcountry explorer/tourer than a huckster.

    mike
    bingo!

    ECR | Bikes | Surly Bikes
    "ECR is a sure-footed, multi-terrain, offroad-obsessed 29+ camp bike"

    Krampus | Bikes | Surly Bikes
    "Krampus is a trail bike that also tackles all kinds of terrain"


    Trail bikes are designed more for agility than stability and a person can use any trail bike for bikepacking, but a 29er is going to be more stable and less agile than a 26er. The ECR is purposely designed to be even more stable than the Krampus.

    If agility is more important than stability to a person for bikepacking then they may want to consider using a trail bike rather than one designed to haul gear. I just don't know how agile a person expects to be while hauling gear though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ECR View Post
    I just don't know how agile a person expects to be while hauling gear though.
    Well the less I pack the more my bike rides like a mountain bike and less like a truck. In general I prefer to ride a mountain bike and in rocky rough singletrack that agility makes for much better riding as you can keep up some speed and still work your way through the chunk or in really gnarly sections you can slowly pick your way through like a puzzle while staying on the bike.

    Although I am not an extreme ultralight bike camper I am motivated to keep things on the minimal side because I know I will be rewarded with more fun as I ride.

    If I'm riding logging roads then agility is not much of an issue since there is lots of room to maneuverer and far fewer obstacles to forward progress. However, a light bike is still more fun to ride if I am in the mountains.

    Those big 29+ wheels generate a lot of stability all on their own once they get rolling.
    Safe riding,

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    I see the two as follows:

    ECR - racks and panniers and or frame bags.

    Krampus - rock and roll riding.

    ECR is a touring bike that takes huge tires for readiness in most conditions.

    Krampus is a mountain bike that takes huge tires for readiness in most conditions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Although I am not an extreme ultralight bike camper I am motivated to keep things on the minimal side because I know I will be rewarded with more fun as I ride.
    Fare enough, though I don't think a Krampus is going to be the first choice of most folks motivated to keep things on the minimal side...lol. I can see the Krampus being fun on singletrack over-nighter, but it certainly would not be my choice for extended camping trips. Unlesss one can afford to have a steed of bikes for each application, we all need to make sacrifices somewhere.

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    I suspect the Krampus/ECR comparison for backcountry touring will end up something like the PathLessPedaled comparison of LHT/Vaya for road/gravel touring.

    (Salsa Vaya 1000 Mile Review (or our thoughts on Salsa Vaya vs. Surly LHT) @ The Path Less Pedaled)

    I think the Krampus will end up being "fun to ride unloaded" in comparison to the ECR much like they found in the Vaya vs. LHT comparison.

    Where it gets tricky is that I think the Krampus may also end up being better for:
    * Rougher stuff where the BB clearance is helpful
    * Conversion to a roadie/gravel/commuter rig with a second set of wheels (again, due to BB drop)

    As Vik says, there's not a lot with the ECR that leaves him wanting for the style of bikepacking that he (and many others) do. Due to work/life commitments, I've done far more (bikeless) 1-2 night backpacking trips than week+ endeavors. I suspect the same is true for a lot of us in the bikepacking context.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clydesdale Clint View Post
    I suspect the Krampus/ECR comparison for backcountry touring will end up something like the PathLessPedaled comparison of LHT/Vaya for road/gravel touring.
    You do realize that the ECR actually has a shorter wheelbase and more standover clearance than the Krampus. You implying that ECR is to Vaya what Krampus is to LHT?


    Krampus (med)



    ECR (med)



    Vaya (med)



    LHT (med)
    Last edited by ECR; 10-08-2013 at 11:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bb1mina View Post
    The krampus/ ECR only accommodates a single chainring, and if you want to use a double ring so you can use a granny gear, it has to be a special crankset made by surly
    I looked into different doubles for my ECR, but settled for Surly's stock OD crankset with 22/36 chainrings. I paired this with an Alfine 11 and 18t cog for an effective gear range of 19-125 inches. LBS already has my wheels built with Rabbit Holes and Knards, but they are still waiting on the frame (Nov?). I will be cranking the Knards with Spank Spikes over the winter, but I have a set of Candies and a pair of Super Motos which I plan to swap out next Spring so I can see what this beast will do on asphalt trails in the city. Maybe the ECR will also become my Everyday City Ride :-)
    Last edited by ECR; 10-09-2013 at 06:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ECR View Post
    I looked into different doubles for my ECR, but settled for Surly's stock OD crankset with 22/36 chainrings. I paired this with an Alfine 11 and 18t cog for an effective gear range of 19-125 inches. LBS already has my wheels built with Rabbit Holes and Knards, but they are still waiting on the frame (Nov?). I will be cranking the Knards with Spank Spikes over the winter, but I have a set of Candies and a pair of Super Motos which I plan to swap out next Spring so I can see what this beast will do on asphalt trails in the city. Maybe the ECR will also become my Everyday City Ride :-)
    I cant imagine "comfortably" spinning 622 hoops with 3 inches of Knard at 125 gear inches but I am pretty unfit currently.
    I was struggling with my local tarmac "rises" whilst pushing my Ogres 17 gear inches in Low with 2 inches of Schwalbe Supreme rubber.
    Sounds like you've sorted yourself a wide range of gears utilising the two chainrings.
    I'd be interested to know if you stick with the 18T cog or if you bump it up to 23T.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rifraf View Post
    I cant imagine "comfortably" spinning 622 hoops with 3 inches of Knard at 125 gear inches but I am pretty unfit currently.
    I currently spin my 16" wheels with 1-1/2" rubber at 135 gear inches, but if I can spin my 29" Super Motos at 125 gear inches I will be both amazed and elated.

    I'd be interested to know if you stick with the 18T cog or if you bump it up to 23T.
    Don't know if I'd ever see any use for a 23t cog since that'd be 15-98 gear inches and I'd be concerned about spending too much time in the highest gear and never have need of the lowest gear. That's the problem I have now with my 16" wheels, most of my time is spent between the top two gears and occasionally reaching for another that ain't there. I'd rather have a high gear than a low gear which seldom was used because you can go too low to where you are struggling to keep your balance and/or it would simply be faster to get off the bike and walk.
    Last edited by ECR; 10-09-2013 at 01:18 PM.

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    "Escape Common Routine"

    From the Surly advert in the latest issue of Bunyan Velo. Page 61.

    Of course, the Surly crew themselves would likely point out that you can make it stand for whatever you want. Or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinymouse View Post
    From the Surly advert in the latest issue of Bunyan Velo. Page 61.

    Of course, the Surly crew themselves would likely point out that you can make it stand for whatever you want. Or not.
    Speaking of which, is he running mustache bars? I kept trying to figure out how he got barend shifters to work with H-bars but I've decided he's probably not using them.

    Also, the t-shirt has a good dozen or so possibilities on the back. I like "escape city rapidly."

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    emotions come rapidly

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    Well, based on some of the prices that are now floating around...

    Extra Costly Ride.

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    I've seen pictures of open bars fitted with bar ends. I bet hes using those or the unreleased/discontinued bar that looked jonesy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clydesdale Clint View Post
    I suspect the Krampus/ECR comparison for backcountry touring will end up something like the PathLessPedaled comparison of LHT/Vaya for road/gravel touring.

    (Salsa Vaya 1000 Mile Review (or our thoughts on Salsa Vaya vs. Surly LHT) @ The Path Less Pedaled)

    I think the Krampus will end up being "fun to ride unloaded" in comparison to the ECR much like they found in the Vaya vs. LHT comparison.

    Where it gets tricky is that I think the Krampus may also end up being better for:
    * Rougher stuff where the BB clearance is helpful
    * Conversion to a roadie/gravel/commuter rig with a second set of wheels (again, due to BB drop)

    As Vik says, there's not a lot with the ECR that leaves him wanting for the style of bikepacking that he (and many others) do. Due to work/life commitments, I've done far more (bikeless) 1-2 night backpacking trips than week+ endeavors. I suspect the same is true for a lot of us in the bikepacking context.

    the ECR is right about where the KM or Ogre are as far as BB drop if you add the extra tire height on the Knard vrs a 2.4 tire. ( 80 mm vrs 68 mm) It's been my experience that the lower BB adds stability without any real issues with rock strike. But everyone has their own comfort level with this. I wouldn't hesitate to take the ECR anywhere a Krampus could go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by senor_mikey View Post
    the ECR is right about where the KM or Ogre are as far as BB drop if you add the extra tire height on the Knard vrs a 2.4 tire. ( 80 mm vrs 68 mm) It's been my experience that the lower BB adds stability without any real issues with rock strike. But everyone has their own comfort level with this. I wouldn't hesitate to take the ECR anywhere a Krampus could go.
    I think the frame would be fine as long as you always ran 29x3.0" tires on it. My point was that swapping in a second wheelset with tires down to 700x32-37 on them would make the pedal to ground clearance pretty slim. Part of the appeal of the rigid 29er bikes for me is the ability to put on more road/touring type tires and either use it as a road/commuter/road-touring bike from time to time. Bikes like the Fargo and the Krampus have that capability, but the ECR starts to get scary low to the ground on anything less than the tires it is built around.

    As long as you stick exclusively to 29+ rubber, I think the ECR would be fine. (Although, as Vik says, the Krampus does have that little bit extra pedal/crank clearance for rockier stuff.)

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clydesdale Clint View Post
    My point was that swapping in a second wheelset with tires down to 700x32-37 on them would make the pedal to ground clearance pretty slim.
    The ECR with 170mm cranks has basically the same pedal to ground clearance as the Krampus with 185mm cranks which means that my ECR will have the same pedal to ground clearance as some folks running Knards on their Krampus, only I'll have more standover clearance and more stable bike.
    Last edited by ECR; 10-14-2013 at 12:10 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by senor_mikey View Post
    the ECR is right about where the KM or Ogre are as far as BB drop if you add the extra tire height on the Knard vrs a 2.4 tire. ( 80 mm vrs 68 mm) It's been my experience that the lower BB adds stability without any real issues with rock strike. But everyone has their own comfort level with this. I wouldn't hesitate to take the ECR anywhere a Krampus could go.
    Good point!

    BB Height Comparrisons w/stock tires:
    12.85 Krampus w/Knard 3.0 (15.25 - 2.4)
    12.55 Instigator w/Dirt Wizard 2.75 (13.75 - 1.2)
    12.15 ECR w/Knard 3.0 (15.25 - 3.1)
    12.15 Karate Monkey w/Maxxis Ardent 2.4 (14.85 - 2.7)
    12.00 Ogre w/WTB Nano Comp 2.1 (14.70 - 2.7)

    Karate Monkey | Bikes | Surly Bikes
    "The bottom bracket height maintains ground clearance while remaining low enough to ensure stability."
    Last edited by ECR; 10-12-2013 at 04:03 PM.

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    I gots one!

    I have finally built up my rare pre-release ECR. I've been riding it on the local trails (developed trails built around mountain biking, not backcountry trails yet) for a couple weeks now.

    Read my early impressions here.

    I'm happy to answer questions, since it seems this is one of very few ECRs in circulation so far. And it's probably the only one without that Jones bar (which I don't like).

    The final build will have Velocity Duallys, so that I can run 29x2.0" touring tires too. But I'm still waiting on those.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ECR View Post
    The ECR with 170mm cranks has basically the same pedal to ground clearance as the Krampus with 185mm cranks which means that my ECR will have the same pedal to ground clearance as some folks running Knards on their Krampus, only I'll have more standover clearance and more stable bike.
    The nature of this argument is ridiculous, honestly. Comparing two different populations of rider to make your point. It's clear your mind won't be changed objectively with a forum name like "ECR"...

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    So Skylerd's quick ride review pretty much sums up what Vik and I have suspected or worried about:

    The bottom bracket height is very low on the ECR. It makes the bike feel awesomely stable, but smashing pedals into rocks and roots becomes more of a concern. In about 6 hrs spent riding on proper bike trails so far, I’ve hit my pedals on rocks or roots about 4 or 6 times. I’m running low-profile N.R.G. pedals, which helps for clearance, and I generally plan where my pedals will be when I’m going over obstacles. Most importantly, a half dozen pedal strikes in as many hours is probably about how many I’d have on many other mountain bikes I’ve ridden, given the trails involved. So these few gentle pedal-rock/root interactions are entirely made up for by the benefits of a low bottom bracket while cornering or loaded up with gear. I didn’t find it a hindrance to my riding, so to me this element of the geometry is worth the trade-offs.
    6 pedal strikes in 6 hours... No thanks! This was on "proper bike trails".

    There's going to be a tradeoff in clearance vs. stability, but I'm not sure that repeated pedal strikes are all that stable either. Running anything less than 29x3.0" Knards is just going to make the situation worse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clydesdale Clint View Post
    So Skylerd's quick ride review pretty much sums up what Vik and I have suspected or worried about:



    6 pedal strikes in 6 hours... No thanks! This was on "proper bike trails".

    There's going to be a tradeoff in clearance vs. stability, but I'm not sure that repeated pedal strikes are all that stable either. Running anything less than 29x3.0" Knards is just going to make the situation worse.
    I was just out riding again. Pulled the (very heavy) surly rack off, and actually lowered my seat for the descent. I rode pretty much the hardest trails I expect to ever do on this bike, which was a black downhill run. That shook me up pretty good, when I wasn't in the air. It was good fun, though made me wonder about front suspension. Anyway, I feel comfortable going faster on this bike than any other xc hardtail bike I've ridden.

    Your concerns with pedal strike are probably more relevant to technical climbs, I imagine. I'm still missing the low gears (my current lowest is 21.3", which is too high for such big wheels), so I can't say I've had much success on super steep stuff. But on less steep ground, on a very narrow trail, my failings seem to have depended more on the wheelbase than the low BB. These pedal strikes I'm talking about might not be what you're thinking. There was no crashing involved, or even any real impact. It was just that I took a bad line, rode it out on the edge of the trail, touched the side of the trail trench, or a root, with my pedal and kept riding. Not that one couldn't do much worse that if they tried. I feel like a smaller, nimbler bike might have corrected from the bad line a bit easier to avoid the strike.

    In fact, I think that is my key point. The bike rides up and down like a big bike - an all mountain bike with a fair bit of travel. It's not remarkable for its nimbleness, but it does want to go fast, and feels good going fast. I haven't ridden a Krampus, so I can't compare. I also haven't loaded the bike up with overnight gear yet, which is supposedly why Surly designed this bike.

    When I use 2.0" tires, it will be on gravel or pavement, so I really won't care about pedal clearance. You don't need pedal clearance on flat, smooth ground.

    On the topic of suspension. I think a longer for would slacken the head angle to no slacker than that of many other mountain bikes, while raising the BB a little. I won't be trying this anytime soon though.

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    Also, interestingly the BB height on the ECR, while running Knards is higher than that of the Ogre (the real bikepacking staple) running 2.1s. The Krampus seems to be more of an outlier among surlys, with 8mm less BB drop than the Ogre despite 23mm larger wheel radius.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clydesdale Clint View Post
    It's clear your mind won't be changed objectively with a forum name like "ECR"
    It is much more clear that facts won't change your mind. If you're in the market for a trail bike then what are you even doing in this thread? If you're in the market for a touring bike you won't find a stock Surly with more pedal to ground clearance than the ECR. If you don't like the bike that's fine, but we don't need your constant trash talk in this thread.

    The ECR comes stock with the same pedal to ground clearance as the Karate Monkey which is supposed to be a trail bike and the ECR comes with more pedal to ground clearance than any other touring bike including the Ogre, Troll or LHT. So if you have issues with the clearance on the ECR then why don't you take your trash talk over to one of those threads for a while?

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylerd View Post
    I'm happy to answer questions, since it seems this is one of very few ECRs in circulation so far. And it's probably the only one without that Jones bar (which I don't like)
    Sweet!

    I am having my ECR built with the 660 Jones bar just to see what all the hype is about. I couldn't see myself with the stock 710 Jones bar though, that thing is a beast. I plan on swapping out the Jones for a downhill bar in the Spring and then decide which Of them I like better on this bike.

    What size cranks are you spinning on your ECR?

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    175mm.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylerd View Post
    175mm.
    Have you ever used anything else?

    All my bikes are 175's except for one of my recumbents which is 155. I find the shorter crank better for spinning and the longer crank better for mashing. I was hoping I could find a crankset which was not only easy to swap crank arms, but also provided a large range of sizes so I could do some experimenting in that regard on my ECR. I have about the same inseam as you and also ordered the 20" frame, but I settled on 170mm primarily as a compromise and also because it was the smallest size available with the Surly OD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ECR View Post
    Have you ever used anything else?
    Sort of. I had 170s on a more dirtjump-gravity oriented bike. That bike sucked to pedal uphill. Otherwise I've always stuck to 175mm. There are probably other, better, threads about crank length. I wouldn't switch a good thing up just because of 5mm of pedal clearance. Just run lower profile pedals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ECR View Post
    It is much more clear that facts won't change your mind. If you're in the market for a trail bike then what are you even doing in this thread? If you're in the market for a touring bike you won't find a stock Surly with more pedal to ground clearance than the ECR. If you don't like the bike that's fine, but we don't need your constant trash talk in this thread.

    The ECR comes stock with the same pedal to ground clearance as the Karate Monkey which is supposed to be a trail bike and the ECR comes with more pedal to ground clearance than any other touring bike including the Ogre, Troll or LHT. So if you have issues with the clearance on the ECR then why don't you take your trash talk over to one of those threads for a while?
    I'm interested in a bikepacking bike that I can use for both off-road gravel trails, singletrack, and would like to be able to put on more road-touring-rims/tires for a situation where I'm going to be on roads. Might also ride the bike as a commuter with the same set of framebags/seatbags etc.

    The math: (Tire Diameter (inflated) / 2) - BB Drop - Crank Length = Pedal Center to Ground

    (What one really cares about is the lowest extent of pedal/shoe/whatever that can hit the ground. The equation above leaves out pedal spindle and the actual bottom of the crank which is lower than the centerline of the pedal, but we can just keep that constant for all bikes.)

    So, here's what you get:

    Pedal Centers to Ground:

    Krampus with 29x3.0 tires = 152mm
    Karate Monkey with 29x2.35 tires = 134mm
    ECR with 29x3.0 tires = 132mm

    So yes, you're right... An ECR and the KM have about the same clearance with the tires they're designed around. And, the math shows what anyone who's ever ridden a Krampus knows-- it has a high BB relative to the ground with a lot of clearance.

    When you look at it from the 700x37mm touring tire case, the situation changes:

    Krampus with 700x37 tires = 113mm
    Karate Monkey with 700x37 tires = 105mm
    ECR with 700x37 tires = 93mm

    Here, the switch to these tires punishes the bikes designed around the larger 29er tire. But the Krampus started so high that it still had loads of clearance for the situation where you'd use such a tire. KM not penalized as much because the tires it's designed around aren't as big. ECR gets to be very close to the ground, but probably still workable. (For reference, my Cannondale CAAD10 Road bike with 700x25 tires is 94mm.)

    Since I'm quite tall, if I got a complete ECR in the XXL size, it's penalized even further by 5mm due to the longer cranks.


    There's a lot that make the ECR more versatile for bikepacking. But the BB drop is a big tradeoff for the utility of the thing running smaller tires. Having ridden the Krampus, it feels stable enough that I'd tour on it loaded. Vik's methods of adding water bottles (or just ordering a braze-on Krampus fork, if you want to be spendy) and other camping gear seem to be a better solution than buying an ECR and giving up nearly an inch of ground clearance. I'd also feel more comfortable with a second wheelset with smaller tires on the Krampus, since it starts so high.

    I'm not a fan of pedal strikes.

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    Yup, sounds like the ECR is not the right choice for you. I won't be going under 700x50 tires. But that suits me fine, since I love fat Schwalbe touring tires for paved stuff, and I only intend to own one wheelset, with 45mm wide Velocity Dually rims, which also dictates 50mm as my narrowest tire width.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clydesdale Clint View Post
    Krampus with 700x37 tires = 113mm
    Karate Monkey with 700x37 tires = 105mm
    ECR with 700x37 tires = 93mm
    Wish you the best of luck with your new Krampus and the 700x37 tires!

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    Quote Originally Posted by skylerd View Post
    Yup, sounds like the ECR is not the right choice for you. I won't be going under 700x50 tires. But that suits me fine, since I love fat Schwalbe touring tires for paved stuff, and I only intend to own one wheelset, with 45mm wide Velocity Dually rims, which also dictates 50mm as my narrowest tire width.
    I like the idea of the Velocity P35s or Dually rims and a 50mm compromise as well. I'd be very curious to see how that works for you.

    I won't make a final decision until I can ride the 2014 Fargos with the Carbon fork. I've ridden a friend's Gen 1 Fargo plenty, test ridden the 2013 Fargo, and have 4-5 days worth of riding various Krampii... Hard decisions. Part of me is just considering going full-fat as well with a second 29er wheelset.

    I do think the BB and fork headset issue take it out of the running for me, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skylerd View Post
    I won't be going under 700x50 tires. But that suits me fine, since I love fat Schwalbe touring tires for paved stuff, and I only intend to own one wheelset, with 45mm wide Velocity Dually rims, which also dictates 50mm as my narrowest tire width.
    ditto with the single wheelset and fatter tires.

    I also plan to swap tires rather than build additional wheelsets. My LBS built me up a set of Rabbit Holes with the Alfine 11 and I'll be swapping between Surly Knards and Schwalbe Super Moto.

    Here's a good article about the width of tires...
    Bicycle Quarterly: Performance of Tires | Off The Beaten Path

    1. Tire resistance is much more important than previously thought. For most riders, changing the tires is by far the biggest improvement they can make to their bikes’ performance. (Aero wheels will improve your bicycle’s speed by less than 2%, whereas tires can make a 20% difference.)

    2. On steel drums, wider tires were slower because they had to run at relatively low pressures. Once we had shown that the high pressures served little benefit, it became clear that on real roads, wider tires are faster, period.

    3. The secret to a fast tire is a supple casing. Compared to the casing, all other tire factors are relatively unimportant… In the past, many considered a high pressure rating as a sign of a “good, fast” tire. In fact, tires with high pressure ratings tend to need sturdier casings that make the tire slower.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylerd View Post
    Also, interestingly the BB height on the ECR, while running Knards is higher than that of the Ogre (the real bikepacking staple) running 2.1s. The Krampus seems to be more of an outlier among surlys, with 8mm less BB drop than the Ogre despite 23mm larger wheel radius.
    After looking at all the BB drops on Surly and Salsa bikes ( and others) I agree that the Krampus seems too high with the standard 3.0" knard tires.

    A lot of people worry about pedal strike but I've never had any issues on any bike I've owned. I do quite a bit of technical trails with my custom monstercrosser. It's got a 75 mm BB drop with 44 mm tires and 175 cranks and I've never had any issue with pedal strike. The lower drop really makes a difference in fast corners.

    BTW... love your ECR set up with the silver post and bars. I can't wait to get one.

    mike

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    I'm entertaining the idea of selling my 2011 ti' Fatback and building a murdered-out, Rohloff-driven ECR.


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    Quote Originally Posted by mangoman View Post
    I'm entertaining the idea of selling my 2011 ti' Fatback and building a murdered-out, Rohloff-driven ECR.

    Dylan, We'll have to have a ECR owners group ride!

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    Quote Originally Posted by surlywhore View Post
    Dylan, We'll have to have a ECR owners group ride!
    Sounds good, Brent. (Wanna buy my Fatback? )

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    Quote Originally Posted by mangoman View Post
    Sounds good, Brent. (Wanna buy my Fatback? )
    Getting rid of the Fatback? Wow! That's a bold move to the ECR. Not using the fat tire capacity?
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Getting rid of the Fatback? Wow! That's a bold move to the ECR. Not using the fat tire capacity?
    Love my Fatback. The original setup, with 2 rim sets (fat and 29er), was swell for the first year. But I found I wasn't using the 29er set much. At all. The Fatback's current rims, + Surly Nate's, is presently my only offroad rig, and I could care less about riding a traditional sized tire offroad. In short, I love ze Fat.

    So...

    ...the ECR, from what I'm hearing, is built specifically for Rohloff (my Fatback is not), and offers what could be a better balance of both worlds in one semi-fat 3" tire set. At most, a tire swap to something thinner for a gravel grinder. But I doubt it.

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    And one day we'll talk Surly into a 3.5 or 3.8" 29er tire so that we can run a bigger tire up front. Even on the stock fork there is clearance for a 3.5".

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by mangoman View Post
    Love my Fatback.

    So...

    Why not relace your other wheelset with some wider rims and mount some knards to try the 29+ thing on your fatback? Then you'll have an idea of what they'll ride like.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaultbrad View Post
    Why not relace your other wheelset with some wider rims and mount some knards to try the 29+ thing on your fatback? Then you'll have an idea of what they'll ride like.
    Great idea, and I did that (nearly that fat, anyway) with a set of Stan's Arch rims for my Fatback. Just didn't use 'em. Still willing to explore that with the ECR build, but it's the Rohloff-specific frame of the ECR that sounds really good. Had a Rohloff on my Big Dummy and I miss that bulletproof drivetrain.

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    ^understood.

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