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Thread: Surly ECR

  1. #1
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    Surly ECR

    Just reading about the new Surly ECR:

    ECR | Bikes | Surly Bikes

    Was about to snag an Ogre for a new around town (mostly) build, but this ECR looks like the Ogre, with the option of running even fatter tires.

    I like it. ...Move over Ogre?

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    The biggest downside against the ECR is that you need a specialized set of wheels to run the really wide stuff, and then you can't run narrower tires when needed. The ECR looks like an awesome bike but it definitely seems like more of a one trick pony. And can't you fit 2.5s on an Ogre anyways?

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    Buying new, it's hard to see getting an Ogre over an ECR. You can run all the tires and wheels from the Ogre in the ECR, plus more. I expect the ECR to cost more, but that's about all the downside I can see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_papa_nuts View Post
    The biggest downside against the ECR is that you need a specialized set of wheels to run the really wide stuff, and then you can't run narrower tires when needed. The ECR looks like an awesome bike but it definitely seems like more of a one trick pony. And can't you fit 2.5s on an Ogre anyways?
    Thinking a bit more about this...

    ...I have a Speedway ti' Fatback, so the fat urge is definitely satisfied. And given the fact that this new build is intended to primarily be a city/commuter setup, with something like Big Apples being the biggest/heaviest thing I'd probably spec for that setup, the Ogre might be the smarter choice.

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    Get the ECR or a Krampus. You can roll around town on Big Apples if you like and although you want it for a commuter today you may well be stoked at having a 29+ rig before too long.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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    Yeah, I no longer see a need for the ogre. The 3" tires work well(according to some reviews/personal anecdotes) on 35mm+ rims which gives plenty of tire options. IE anything you'd want to run on a big mountain bike.

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    The krampus/ ECR only accommodates a single chainring, and if you want to use a double ring so you can use a granny gear, it has to be a special crankset made by surly; I was planning to modify the rear cassette by removing the 3 smallest cogs so that it will move outwards and allow the use of a "normal" dual chainring crankset but I can't seem to find the thread about it at the moment

    I think for all-around riding/ touring, the ogre is still it, I put a triple ring XT touring crankset with 48-36-26 teeth on my son's ogre and it really hauls, although my setup uses front and rear surly racks, so it can get really heavy, which is really not noticeable when you're out riding

    That being said, vikb has been using his krampus for touring and his setup is super, including frame bags and seatpost bags, etc

    Why not get both? You won't regret it, for sure...

    ;-)
    biker boy

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    Comparing geometries between the Krampus and ECR, it looks like the ECR is NOT just a Krampus with more braze-ons. I like the shorter ETT of the ECR. I'm curious about the BB Drop listed for the ECR though - 80mm seems like alot. I understand that it does roll 3-inch tires, so the net effect is not the same as an 80mm drop on a standard 29er, but it still sounds like alot.

    Anyone have the capability of measuring the BB height on the ECR?
    Enjoy the ride!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bb1mina View Post
    The krampus/ ECR only accommodates a single chainring, and if you want to use a double ring so you can use a granny gear, it has to be a special crankset made by surly;
    I'm using an IGH which is perfect for exploring on a bike far from a shop to buy a spare derailleur and you can dial in the low gearing pretty well even with a Alfine 8 - although a more expensive Rohloff gives you both ends of the gearing range with zero hassles.

    The ECR complete comes with a Surly dual ring OD crank and could be worth buying to get the OEM discount on parts. The Rabbit Hole/Knard wheels are expensive to build custom.

    Quote Originally Posted by LBIkid View Post
    Comparing geometries between the Krampus and ECR, it looks like the ECR is NOT just a Krampus with more braze-ons. I like the shorter ETT of the ECR. I'm curious about the BB Drop listed for the ECR though - 80mm seems like alot. I understand that it does roll 3-inch tires, so the net effect is not the same as an 80mm drop on a standard 29er, but it still sounds like alot.

    Anyone have the capability of measuring the BB height on the ECR?
    The ECR has a shorter fork and a skinny HT which will limit your suspension for choices. The BB drop will make for a more touring friendly bike at the expense of pedal clearance in rough techy terrain.

    Somebody at Interbike could probably measure the BB height for you if you can get their attention.

    BTW - the Krampus can take dual racks and panniers without breaking a sweat as well as get loaded up with soft bikepacking bags. So I wouldn't discount it as a touring bike or a MTB you can run errands with.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I'm using an IGH which is perfect for exploring on a bike far from a shop to buy a spare derailleur and you can dial in the low gearing pretty well even with a Alfine 8 - although a more expensive Rohloff gives you both ends of the gearing range with zero hassles.

    The ECR complete comes with a Surly dual ring OD crank and could be worth buying to get the OEM discount on parts. The Rabbit Hole/Knard wheels are expensive to build custom.



    The ECR has a shorter fork and a skinny HT which will limit your suspension for choices. The BB drop will make for a more touring friendly bike at the expense of pedal clearance in rough techy terrain.

    Somebody at Interbike could probably measure the BB height for you if you can get their attention.

    BTW - the Krampus can take dual racks and panniers without breaking a sweat as well as get loaded up with soft bikepacking bags. So I wouldn't discount it as a touring bike or a MTB you can run errands with.
    Thanks for the info, Vik. If I pulled the ol' trigger on an ECR + Rohloff, what width rims would you recommend...given the following use case:

    - ECR will spend majority of it's life as an urban hauler/huckster bike
    - but, would love to swap tires to knobs and hit the dirt with the ECR once in a while

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    "The krampus/ ECR only accommodates a single chainring, and if you want to use a double ring so you can use a granny gear, it has to be a special crankset made by surly..."

    This isn't exactly true. I'm running an XT double on my Krampus with Velocity P35's/Knards and am not having any problems using the small chainring and the 36 out back. YMMV with Rabbit Hole rims.

    If you're willing to run a square taper crankset and a bottom bracket with an extra-long long spindle length I'm guessing you might even be able to run a triple.
    Last edited by jnroyal; 09-17-2013 at 01:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mangoman View Post
    Thanks for the info, Vik. If I pulled the ol' trigger on an ECR + Rohloff, what width rims would you recommend...given the following use case:

    - ECR will spend majority of it's life as an urban hauler/huckster bike
    - but, would love to swap tires to knobs and hit the dirt with the ECR once in a while
    Velocity Blunt 35's give you a good range of tire options from 2.35"- 3".

    I've run Knards with tubes on the older narrower Stans Flow rims and it worked fine. Those tires feel more stable on a wider Rabbit Hole rim, but I wouldn't hesitate to run the Flows again if necessary so the Blunt 35s should be a great compromise.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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    XT cranks 2 x 10 double with Knards on Rabbit Holes here, no issues

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    I knew "The One" silliness wouldn't last long, you're going to end up right back where you started with a full fleet! :P

    P.S. You can't have your Rohloff back...


    Quote Originally Posted by mangoman View Post
    Thanks for the info, Vik. If I pulled the ol' trigger on an ECR + Rohloff, what width rims would you recommend...given the following use case:

    - ECR will spend majority of it's life as an urban hauler/huckster bike
    - but, would love to swap tires to knobs and hit the dirt with the ECR once in a while

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    Heading to Interbike tomorrow and would be happy to measure for you if someone else doesn't first.

    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Somebody at Interbike could probably measure the BB height for you if you can get their attention.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LBIkid View Post
    Comparing geometries between the Krampus and ECR, it looks like the ECR is NOT just a Krampus with more braze-ons. I like the shorter ETT of the ECR.
    Note that the top tube length of the ECR equals that of one-size-smaller Krampus. So a medium Krampus effectively equals a large ECR.

    The real differences between the frames appear to be the A-C length of the fork, the number of braze-ons, and a very small difference in CS length.

    FWIW, I just finished ride #3 on my Krampus and love it.

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    SteveM
    Did you use the supplied monkey nuts?

    Is there enough chain clearance from the tires with a granny gear-36T cog combination?

    Really interested in this, as an IGH setup like vikB's is not available in my place
    biker boy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenanigans View Post
    I knew "The One" silliness wouldn't last long, you're going to end up right back where you started with a full fleet! :P

    P.S. You can't have your Rohloff back...
    This made me laugh out loud. Two times.

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    In my mind it comes down to head tube angle.

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    180mm cranks on the XXL... Bravo Surly!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenanigans View Post
    Heading to Interbike tomorrow and would be happy to measure for you if someone else doesn't first.
    That would be fantastic, if you don't mind. As with most Surly stuff, it'll be hard for me to find a complete ECR in shops near me to measure it myself. Thanks!
    Enjoy the ride!

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    FWIW - I scored a medium Krampus based on Eff TT and wheelbase.

    It fits fine, but the bike doesn't feel as big as the numbers. I'd probably get a large if I was starting again.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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    My girlfriend is 5'7 with an inseam 32'
    Is it possible she could fit on a medium , or wil toptube be too big
    We are from Europe and testriding is not very easy , with only a few dealers
    Thanks for your opinions

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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Velocity Blunt 35's give you a good range of tire options from 2.35"- 3".

    I've run Knards with tubes on the older narrower Stans Flow rims and it worked fine. Those tires feel more stable on a wider Rabbit Hole rim, but I wouldn't hesitate to run the Flows again if necessary so the Blunt 35s should be a great compromise.
    Another option are the new Velocity Dually's. They measure 45mm so the Knards will probably be close to max width. They are in production right now and should be out real soon.

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    I rode the ECR at the release in Utah. I was between the Ogre and the ECR. I Pre-ordered the ECR because you get everything the Ogre has plus! And no Canti mounts!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by surlywhore View Post
    I rode the ECR at the release in Utah. I was between the Ogre and the ECR. I Pre-ordered the ECR because you get everything the Ogre has plus! And no Canti mounts!!!
    So what is the retail cost and when are they "planning" on the 1st batch being available?

    I'm going to talk to my local dealer tomorrow!

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    Quote Originally Posted by vaultbrad View Post
    Yeah, I no longer see a need for the ogre.
    The more I think about it the more I kinda leaning the other way. Realistically if you get into a situation where you need both racks and 3 inch wide 29er tires I doubt your gonna be in a place where you can get replacement tires easily for those rims. The only situation I could think of where an ECR would be preferable to an Ogre or Krampus would be a tour of fire roads with the chance of snowy passes, in the US or western Europe. Otherwise give me the more capable Krampus (although I'd like to see cage mounts on the fork) or the more practical Ogre or Troll.

    I really want to like the ECR, I actually do love it in a weird sort of way, but I just can't see a point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by senor_mikey View Post
    So what is the retail cost and when are they "planning" on the 1st batch being available?

    I'm going to talk to my local dealer tomorrow!
    Not sure about cost, but mid December is what I've heard.

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    [QUOTE=senor_mikey;10691053]So what is the retail cost and when are they "planning" on the 1st batch being available?

    I think they said $2100 for the complete. I ordered the frame set, I'm going to set it up as a commuter for the winter, then get RH's and Dirt Wizards for next summer to do the Colorado Trail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_papa_nuts View Post
    The more I think about it the more I kinda leaning the other way. Realistically if you get into a situation where you need both racks and 3 inch wide 29er tires I doubt your gonna be in a place where you can get replacement tires easily for those rims.
    You can put "normal" 2.4" 29er rubber on a rabbit hole rim if you want/need to.

    Lots of people are riding 29+ or fatbikes in places with little to no tire resupply options.

    You can also equip a Krampus with dual racks without much issue. I've added a water bottle to my stem and downtube on the Krampus. I could add two more to the fork legs, but I have enough water and like to keep the bike narrow.

    If I was doing it over I would get the Krampus again, but if you dig the ECR I see no reason not to get it.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattbryant2 View Post
    In my mind it comes down to head tube angle.
    I'm confused? The Surly site lists both the Krampus and ECR as having the same HTA.
    But Guitar Ted said that the Surly rep indicated the ECR had a steeper HTA.

    I wonder whose right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by senor_mikey View Post
    I'm confused? The Surly site lists both the Krampus and ECR as having the same HTA.
    But Guitar Ted said that the Surly rep indicated the ECR had a steeper HTA.
    My response was addressing the comparison between the ECR and the Ogre, not the ECR and the Krampus.

    But I did catch that quote from the Surly rep, and was disappointed by the head tube angle (ECR) as listed on the Surly website.

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    So, was anyone able to grab a BB height measurement during Interbike, or otherwise be in the know? I'm still pretty curious about how an 80mm BB drop translates to BB height with 29 x 3.0 tires. Thanks!
    Enjoy the ride!

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    For some reason I had in mind that I was supposed to measure the Krampus not the ECR. Which in hindsight makes no sense since there's plenty of people here that have them to measure.

    Krampus was hanging on the wall so I figured I couldn't measure it and then I got distracted by the Straggler and new Big Dummy accessories. Sorry.


    Quote Originally Posted by LBIkid View Post
    So, was anyone able to grab a BB height measurement during Interbike, or otherwise be in the know? I'm still pretty curious about how an 80mm BB drop translates to BB height with 29 x 3.0 tires. Thanks!

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    My favorite meaning for the acronym I've come up with so far:

    Explore Camp Repeat

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    Escape Camper RVs.

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    Eat Cookies Regularly.

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    My favorite one yet!

    Quote Originally Posted by rusheleven View Post
    My favorite meaning for the acronym I've come up with so far:

    Explore Camp Repeat

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    spotted this on the web this morning...ECR Frameset w/price.

    Surly ECR Frameset LG Dark Green - Kozy's Chicago Bike Shops | Chicago Bike Stores, Bicycles, Cycling, Bike Repair

    not available but just having it posted means it's coming soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vitaly66 View Post
    Eat Cookies Regularly.
    Yes!
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    Looking at the specs on this bike, it looks like the BB drop is 20mm more than the Krampus. I'm considering one of them for the 29+ option, but would also like to be able to run a second set of narrower rims and something like a 622-42 tire for bikepacking where there is more pavement involved.

    I'm worrying about the BB being too low in that situation. The higher setup of the Krampus keeps looking appealing, given the positive press it's gotten in the bikepacking dimension (I'm looking at you, Vik!).

    Any thoughts?

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    I wouldn't worry about 80 mm of BB drop on the road. That's what a Riv Atlantis has and I have friends who ride off road all the time with no issues with 42mm tires.

    I personally prefer a lower BB as it lowers the center of gravity. It seems to me that the Krampus with a 3" tire and 60 mm of drop is on the high side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clydesdale Clint View Post
    I'm worrying about the BB being too low in that situation. The higher setup of the Krampus keeps looking appealing, given the positive press it's gotten in the bikepacking dimension (I'm looking at you, Vik!).

    Any thoughts?
    I live in an area with rocky terrain so I don't want a low BB on a bikepacking rig. I can fit front and rear racks on my Krampus if I want to and I like the option to fit any fork I choose with the large headtube. I can carry water bottles on my fork and down tube without any problems.

    I've bombed logging roads at 50kph+ on the Krampus and the stability is great.

    There really isn't any feature of the ECR that I find particularly interesting.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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    Vik, what are you using for racks on the Krampus? I've been kicking around the ECR vs Krampus vs Straggler choice. Already have a Beargrease so not looking to overlap too much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ticketchecker View Post
    Vik, what are you using for racks on the Krampus? I've been kicking around the ECR vs Krampus vs Straggler choice. Already have a Beargrease so not looking to overlap too much.


    My racks of choice are OMM [Old Man Mountain] racks. I've used them for over a decade with a great deal of satisfaction.

    They are highly versatile so I can move them from bike to bike. Fitting them to my fatbike, suspension mountain bike and Krampus has all been straight forward.

    They are also made in the US if that sort of thing matters to you.

    I could put an OMM front rack on the Krampus in about 5mins.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post






    They are also made in the US if that sort of thing matters to you.
    thanks, that matters plenty to me

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    Quote Originally Posted by ticketchecker View Post
    thanks, that matters plenty to me
    BTW - if you contact them they will hook you up with any mounting hardware you need. I have a bunch of OMM parts since I own several of their racks and I mix and match brackets to get the rack positioned where I want it on each bike.

    If you buy a rack and want the rack in a different position than the stock parts don't hesitate to call them. They are great guys and will sort you out.

    For a slightly odd bike like the Krampus you nay well want a non-stock set of brackets.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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    So, talk me out of this...

    I ride about 70% of my miles in a mix of paved/gravel/dirt to commute to work. (Over 80% of those mileage IS paved, however. Gravel/dirt ends up being shortcuts or connectors).
    Other 30% of mileage would be for off-road only and in the bikepacking/touring context.


    So, I'd set up a Krampus with something like a 40/28 + 11-36 gearing and run two wheelsets. One 'cross type wheelset that could do anything from 28mm road tires to 42mm beefier cross/touring tires. The other would be Rabbit Holes to run 2.4" to 3.0" mountain tires to Knards. Covers most bases, right?

    I'd been previously thinking either Salsa Fargo or ECR, but I'm with Vik in the "ECR doesn't seem to offer me anything over Krampus" category. The Fargo's appeal is maybe a little less weight and drop bars. I like the drop bar 29er feel, having test ridden the Fargo a bit. The Fargo loses out on the 29+ option and requires less finagling to do racks.

    So, Krampus with two wheelsets = One Bike to Rule them All for my riding style? Thoughts?


    Posing the same question to the LBS, the owner (a devout Krampus convert) seemed to say that he'd ride Knards "everywhere all the time, road or otherwise". I'm not sure what the durability of these tires on the road is, but I'm pretty sure I don't want to be dropping hundreds of bucks on tires for my 80-100 miles of road commuting each week during peak season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clydesdale Clint View Post
    So, talk me out of this...

    I ride about 70% of my miles in a mix of paved/gravel/dirt to commute to work. (Over 80% of those mileage IS paved, however. Gravel/dirt ends up being shortcuts or connectors).
    Other 30% of mileage would be for off-road only and in the bikepacking/touring context.


    So, I'd set up a Krampus with something like a 40/28 + 11-36 gearing and run two wheelsets. One 'cross type wheelset that could do anything from 28mm road tires to 42mm beefier cross/touring tires. The other would be Rabbit Holes to run 2.4" to 3.0" mountain tires to Knards. Covers most bases, right?

    I'd been previously thinking either Salsa Fargo or ECR, but I'm with Vik in the "ECR doesn't seem to offer me anything over Krampus" category. The Fargo's appeal is maybe a little less weight and drop bars. I like the drop bar 29er feel, having test ridden the Fargo a bit. The Fargo loses out on the 29+ option and requires less finagling to do racks.

    So, Krampus with two wheelsets = One Bike to Rule them All for my riding style? Thoughts?


    Posing the same question to the LBS, the owner (a devout Krampus convert) seemed to say that he'd ride Knards "everywhere all the time, road or otherwise". I'm not sure what the durability of these tires on the road is, but I'm pretty sure I don't want to be dropping hundreds of bucks on tires for my 80-100 miles of road commuting each week during peak season.
    You can run a 29+ on the front of a Fargo and a 2.5 out back. Just to make the choice a bit harder for you.

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    Posts
    1,160
    Quote Originally Posted by Clydesdale Clint View Post
    So, talk me out of this...

    I ride about 70% of my miles in a mix of paved/gravel/dirt to commute to work. (Over 80% of those mileage IS paved, however. Gravel/dirt ends up being shortcuts or connectors).
    Other 30% of mileage would be for off-road only and in the bikepacking/touring context.


    So, I'd set up a Krampus with something like a 40/28 + 11-36 gearing and run two wheelsets. One 'cross type wheelset that could do anything from 28mm road tires to 42mm beefier cross/touring tires. The other would be Rabbit Holes to run 2.4" to 3.0" mountain tires to Knards. Covers most bases, right?

    I'd been previously thinking either Salsa Fargo or ECR, but I'm with Vik in the "ECR doesn't seem to offer me anything over Krampus" category. The Fargo's appeal is maybe a little less weight and drop bars. I like the drop bar 29er feel, having test ridden the Fargo a bit. The Fargo loses out on the 29+ option and requires less finagling to do racks.

    So, Krampus with two wheelsets = One Bike to Rule them All for my riding style? Thoughts?


    Posing the same question to the LBS, the owner (a devout Krampus convert) seemed to say that he'd ride Knards "everywhere all the time, road or otherwise". I'm not sure what the durability of these tires on the road is, but I'm pretty sure I don't want to be dropping hundreds of bucks on tires for my 80-100 miles of road commuting each week during peak season.
    ECR may provide better clearances for mounting fenders for commuting, and extra bottle cage mounts for backwoods adventures.

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