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Thread: Surly 2012

  1. #1
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    Surly 2012

    Post what you have! (or find )

    Black Ops Pugs

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/stahlrahmen-bikes/6102344747/" title="IMG_1922 by Stahlrahmen-Bikes, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6187/6102344747_52167d8663_b.jpg" width="800" height="481" alt="IMG_1922"></a>

    Moonlander

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/stahlrahmen-bikes/6102890782/" title="IMG_1923 by Stahlrahmen-Bikes, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6181/6102890782_f2df220216_b.jpg" width="800" height="484" alt="IMG_1923"></a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/stahlrahmen-bikes/6102890672/" title="IMG_1924 by Stahlrahmen-Bikes, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6204/6102890672_3c0cf2624a_b.jpg" width="656" height="900" alt="IMG_1924"></a>

    Ogre

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/stahlrahmen-bikes/6102344303/" title="IMG_1926 by Stahlrahmen-Bikes, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6070/6102344303_7b4645113c_b.jpg" width="690" height="900" alt="IMG_1926"></a>

    Disc Trucker (I love this new one)

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/stahlrahmen-bikes/6102890556/" title="IMG_1925 by Stahlrahmen-Bikes, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6086/6102890556_23181ef7c3_b.jpg" width="800" height="514" alt="IMG_1925"></a>

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    Thats it!!! Done deal. Having my LBS build me up an Ogre when the frame is available.

    Thank you for posting this!!!!

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    Clown Shoe close up


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    Quote Originally Posted by martinsillo View Post
    Disc Trucker (I love this new one)

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/stahlrahmen-bikes/6102890556/" title="IMG_1925 by Stahlrahmen-Bikes, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6086/6102890556_23181ef7c3_b.jpg" width="800" height="514" alt="IMG_1925"></a>
    This must be the new XXL size
    But the fork looks pretty good classical

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    Is that a salsa enabler fork on the pug and moonlander?

    Surly has a ton of nice stuff coming out. I am thinking of an ogre.

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    Was hoping for a new color on the BD but can't go wrong with black I guess!

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    Quote Originally Posted by pastpost View Post
    Is that a salsa enabler fork on the pug and moonlander?
    I thought that too...remember they are no longer selling pugs frames with a fork

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    Troll drop outs?

    Quote Originally Posted by DerBergschreck View Post
    This must be the new XXL size
    But the fork looks pretty good classical
    I think that's a 58cm Trucker with 26" wheels. Look at the drop outs though, I think those are the same ones that are on the Troll/Ogre. Smart move. At first I wasn't so excited about the Disc Trucker but now that I've seen it... the color is great.

    The bike lust is never ending... n+1 add infinitum...
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

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    Wow, Surly did not disappoint this year. Not like they ever do though...

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    I feel like the Ogre is the poor man's Fargo. And by that I mean just as cool and less expensive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by backcountryeti View Post
    I feel like the Ogre is the poor man's Fargo. And by that I mean just as cool and less expensive.
    They are almost the same price around here. Fargo is a sexy bike, I like Surly's for their utilitarian look but the Ogre and Troll are (like their namesakes suggest) kinda ugly bikes - but in a very endearing way. (The Troll moreso than the Ogre - big wheels definitely help!)
    Last edited by LostBoyScout; 09-03-2011 at 05:43 AM.

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    Hey,
    Are those thumbshifters on the Ogre?
    Make and model please....
    The truth will set you free... But first it will piss you off

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    Quote Originally Posted by dfltroll View Post
    I think that's a 58cm Trucker with 26" wheels. Look at the drop outs though, I think those are the same ones that are on the Troll/Ogre. Smart move. At first I wasn't so excited about the Disc Trucker but now that I've seen it... the color is great.

    The bike lust is never ending... n+1 add infinitum...
    I agree on the size front. Maybe a 60cm, but it's definitely a 26" wheel model, and not as huge as the 62cm. See here:

    62 cm LHT with 26" wheels | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

    The dropouts have a similar shape to the Troll or Ogre, but they are definitely a vertical dropout on the new Disc Trucker. I also don't see the special hole for the trailer hitch, but it might just be tough to see in the photo. It would be a shame if they didn't include the hitch mount on a new tour frame...

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    Disc Trucker

    Quote Originally Posted by SSSasky View Post

    62 cm LHT with 26" wheels | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
    It would be a shame if they didn't include the hitch mount on a new tour frame...
    I agree. Hopefully they're there. The Disc Trucker and Bill/Ted seem like a good match.

    The wheels in my head keep spinning on this. My CC or LHT will be going to make room for a Disc Trucker with 26". For me this is a more practical bike than a Troll/Ogre as I really like drop bars and am comfortable with them on dirt. Obviously the low BB height of the Trucker can be an issue but I don't ever see myself touring on technical single track.

    60cm Trucker, 26" wheels with 2.0 Duremes and 48cm Nitto Noodle bars all make for one great commuting/touring/camping all-road machine.
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

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    I like the way they went for fat (ish) tires for the disc trucker demo. It's the 2+" capacity that got me onto an LHT in the first place. Really makes that frame stand out from the crowd.

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    ^
    I think that frame is a 26" wheeled frame? Anyways, yeah I love my LHT with 40mm Schwalbe Marathon Extremes. They fit just fine under full fenders even.

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    Quote Originally Posted by b3ksmith View Post
    Hey,
    Are those thumbshifters on the Ogre?
    Make and model please....
    Based on the red caps, they are most likely SRAM bar end shifters mounted with Paul Components Thumbies. You're welcome.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor29 View Post
    Based on the red caps, they are most likely SRAM bar end shifters mounted with Paul Components Thumbies. You're welcome.
    I heard the thumb shifters were Microshift.....
    Wally

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    I heard the thumb shifters were Microshift.....
    Sounds plausible, especially since a stock pic of the Moonlander had a Microshift rear derailleur.

  20. #20
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    Wow, I am loving all of these new products. Time to start convincing my wife into a Moonlander purchase but I wouldn't be mad at a black ops Pugs. Looks like I am going to start some can collecting in order to justify yet another new bike purchase.

  21. #21
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    Surly's revamped website is up with all the new goodies and specs.
    Jason
    Disclaimer: www.paramountsports.net

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    Looks like the Ogre will come as a complete (that is a nice surprise that was not in the blog post). Specs look respectable -- I am tempted. I wonder if the complete will be the same price as the Troll complete ($1399)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dlavi View Post
    Looks like the Ogre will come as a complete (that is a nice surprise that was not in the blog post). Specs look respectable -- I am tempted. I wonder if the complete will be the same price as the Troll complete ($1399)?

    AAhhh!! Now I don't know what to do. Almost had my Ogre build specd out and now this. I may just get the complete and upgrade later.......

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    Seen that Karate Monkey 2012 an Ogre come with taller head an seat tubes?

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    I want the Ogre BAD but I'm going to settle for the Troll as I'm impatient

  26. #26
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    Someone get some photos of the Disc Trucker!

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    Pics of the new Pacer color too please!
    Jason
    Disclaimer: www.paramountsports.net

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    A couple spy shots of the Disc Trucker:

    New SURLY Long Haul DISC Trucker! fresh shots from Las Vegas. | RIDE BICYCLES

    It's a shame they didn't put the trailer mount holes on those beefy dropouts, but it's otherwise a very good looking bike. I see a 64cm in my future ...

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    Yikes!

    Discs with a curved fork? Under the heavy loads of a tourer, that sounds like a recipe for disaster.

    Too bad, I like the heel clearance of the LHT more than the Sutra but I won't compromise safety.

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    You could always just get a 1x1 fork or better yet a cro-moto.

    I'm sure it's been thoroughly tested, why would Surly put a sketchy fork on the road it is sue-happy environment?!

  32. #32
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    Yeah, Surly wouldn't test the bike or meet any of the safety requirements for a new product stipulated by the industry or countries they want to sell product in. They just release it. Maybe some day they will hire real engineers that design safe stuff
    Wally

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    Quote Originally Posted by xenti View Post
    Discs with a curved fork? Under the heavy loads of a tourer, that sounds like a recipe for disaster.

    Too bad, I like the heel clearance of the LHT more than the Sutra but I won't compromise safety.
    Please explain your reasoning here. Feel free to use technical jargon.

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    Well I can see now I will have to build my self a Disc Trucker after I get done with my BD.This is why I have no money lol.I do have a 2009 LHT now by by 2009

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    Quote Originally Posted by kdc1956 View Post
    Well I can see now I will have to build my self a Disc Trucker after I get done with my BD.This is why I have no money lol.
    No money? But you have bikes! I fail to see any problem.

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    I highly doubt that Surly would release a bike with an unsafe fork. Sure, it used to be recieved wisdom that crowned/curved forks aren't durable enough to withstand the torsional force of a disc brake. But, there are already several on the market. Rawland's 'bi-plane' fork and Singular's Peregrine come to mine. Now, the fork on the Disc Trucker is probably stiffer and stronger than the normal Trucker and that might impact ride quality. I'd be more concerned about that than safety.

    As to the rest of the Surly 2012 lineup, I give Surly a big high five and two thumbs up to boot. I love the new Karate Monkey with the upgraded fork and sleeker lines. But, on the other hand, the Ogre complete is essentially the geared KM complete that I always hoped for. And I love the Army Jeep color too. Gonna be a tough choice (if wifey ever lets me buy a new mountain bike). Anyone seen the MSRP's yet? And I wonder how they compare to the prices of the new budget versions of the Salsa Fargo and El Mar. More choices. Thank you, QBP.

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    I see no reason for the bent disc fork to be 'unsafe' strictly by virtue of being a bent disc fork. The bend has more or less no effect on the bending strength of the fork, it only affects compressive stresses. The disc brake puts purely bending forces on the fork. Since the material is heat treated after forming, its strength as a material is unaffected.

    The only reason I can see for curved disc forks being unpopular is the added complexity of the disc tab (which is minimal). Also, Surly's bent forks on the Pacer and LHT have a large radius bend, which I'm sure makes for a strong fork.

    The trick with designing a disc fork is to distribute the stress along the fork leg and not have it concentrated (naturally it would concentrate at the top edge of the disc tab). I'm sure Surly has done their homework.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SSSasky View Post
    The dropouts have a similar shape to the Troll or Ogre, but they are definitely a vertical dropout on the new Disc Trucker.
    Bad news - why didn't they give the disc trucker the same horizontal drop outs?

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    Disc brakes and curved forks according to Thorn Cycles

    From the Thorn Cycles website:
    "We use raked blades, these are exceptionally comfortable, they will withstand the forces generated whilst cycling (and have done so for generations) but raked forks will not withstand the forces generated by a disc brake, which are very different to the forces generated by V brakes, even at the same rate of retardation. We have seen 3 ways that other manufacturers have “accomplished” this, they all seem stupid to us
    (1) We have had customers complain that a well known custom builder’s raked steel forks have permanently bent under braking.
    (2) We have seen hideously uncomfortable, thick walled, straight blades used by another manufacturer, these forks don’t fail, but I expect that an owner’s hands and elbows soon would!
    (3) The most ridiculous “solution” of all, is a heavy left blade and lighter right blade. The different blades must have different elastic properties (isn’t that supposed to be the point?) and therefore the axle must twist, when a bump is hit. If the axle twists, then so must the front wheel. If the front wheel twists, then the bike consequently alters course.
    Isn’t hitting bumps comfortably and safely the main function of a bicycle’s fork?
    Why compromise comfort and safety, in order to fit a brake, which is not the most suitable choice, in the conditions that the steel fork will be used in?"

    http://www.sjscycles.com/thornpdf/Th...paBroLoRes.pdf

    While the folks at Thorn seem to have raised some good points, I have confidence the folks at Surly have considered all of the above when designing the Disc Trucker.
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerBergschreck View Post
    Bad news - why didn't they give the disc trucker the same horizontal drop outs?
    Il hold out for a Disc CrossCheck next year with the Troll/Ogre horizontal dropouts...

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    No brake posts on the Disc Trucker. You've got to commit.

    I personally loathe disc brakes. Some people love them. If discs are new to you, I suggest thinking long and hard before pulling the trigger on that one.

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    ^ +1 (But this is a religious issue really.)

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    shay and stanas (and others),

    disk brakes are new to me and i am getting mixed advice about the disk trucker versus canti trucker. i will commute on the bike in seattle and use if for tours in the summer months. any pros and cons would be great to hear.

    thanks.

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    Since I don't live in Seattle and hate commuting in the rain I think it's better for someone else to field this one. (I expect most replies will tell you to get discs, however, for me discs = more weight, more $, more complexity, and a stiffer fork with a harder ride.)

    FWIW, I would point out though that people like Jan Heine (Report from Paris-Brest-Paris | Off The Beaten Path) who recently rode a rather wet PBP *without discs* live in Seattle.

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    Disc brakes on a Trucker feel like a sellout to me. I mean, here is a bicycle that flies in the face of trendy modernity with the old timey goodness of steel, barend shifters, and cantilever brakes. But that's just my opinion.

    I don't think choice of brakes matters much for 90-95% of the on-road riding that most people do (off-road is a little different, but not much). I mean, assuming that the brakes in question are in good working order and properly set up, well adjusted cantis (or V's) will stop a bike just as fast cable-actuated discs in dry conditions. People say that discs are better for incliment weather. But obviously plenty of people do just fine with rim brakes. Other people say that discs are more likely to fail and are harder to fix/replace if you're stuck in BFE on a big tour. But how often does that really happen? Probably better to base the decision on what you are more comfortable adjusting and working on or what is more interchange with other bikes in your garage. I guess I could see that as a big draw for the disc Trucker for cyclists who already have disc brake equipped mountain bikes. Dirt tour? Real easy to swap in the wheels from the mountain bike. But disc brakes still offend my sense of retrogrouchiness.

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    I live in an area with wet winters and commute to work by bike. My Volae Century is equiped with Avid BB7's, the same brake that Surly is using on the Disc Trucker. The brakes are powerful, easy to adjust, changing pads is not hard at all and they provide pretty much the same power wet as they do dry(my impression is that they have a lot more power than rim brakes). Your rims also don't get torn up by grit and the rim brake.

    I'll take the little bit of extra weight (it's not like the Disc Trucker is an especially lite bike anyway) for the better braking. The last portion of my commute is down a steep hill with two spots where people tend to either run a stop sign or pull past the sign for better visibility. I've noticed the better braking both in the wet and on the hill when people pull out in front of me. I like BB7's so much for their simplicity that I nearly yanked the hydraulic discs off of my mountain bike when the rear brake was giving me problems. If I have any more problems with my MTB brakes I am going to replace them with BB7's.

    I don't think there is anything wrong with rim brakes but I prefer the discs, especially in the wet.

    edit: I had to go unexpectedly and wasn't able to write anything about the con's of disc brakes. Here is how I see it, they are all heavier, anywhere from slightly to a lot more complicated (mechanical brakes being less complicated than hydraulics) and they can be more prone to failure. On my Specialized MTB the rim brakes never failed in 11 years and the only thing that needed to be replaced were pads and some cables. On my GF with Juicy 5's the rear brake was a pain in the butt for over a year before it finally froze shut. The replacement Magura Marta is a pretty good brake but it took some fiddling with to get set up correctly. Brake pads might also be hard to find in certain places but the BB7 uses the same pad as most of the Avid hydraulic brakes and I've never seen a bike store that didn't carry pads that would fit the BB7.
    Last edited by dm1333; 10-14-2011 at 01:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dm1333 View Post
    Brake pads might also be hard to find in certain places but the BB7 uses the same pad as most of the Avid hydraulic brakes and I've never seen a bike store that didn't carry pads that would fit the BB7.
    That might be true where you live (presumably in the US), but is not necessarily true in rural areas or bike shops in other countries. If venturing overseas spare brake pads may well be impossible to obtain in some countries, for instance India, and no doubt many others. Still, for commuting this isn't an issue.

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    one advantage of mechanical discs is that it's easier to carry spare pads and cables, which are cheaper to buy, compared to carrying expensive hydraulic brake lines and fluid (+ a bleed kit?), just in case you need to fix your brakes far from any bike shop or in the middle of nowhere

    been looking at the long haul trucker lately, with its ability to take fenders and racks, and the addition of disc brakes makes it more tempting, but will still need to decide whether my son will be more comfortable with its handling, versus the troll, because we mostly do trails/ off- road (need additional gears now because his single-speed 1x1 is heavier to pedal with 2 loaded panniers)
    biker boy

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    ^ Agree re hydro discs, plus one would also need to carry spare olives and a means to fit them. And if touring somewhere like India, I'd be dubious about sourcing any non-standard (for cars or motorcycles) hydraulic fluid too, i.e., "mineral oil." And self-adjusting can be a PITA if the bike will be transported much and the wheels have to come off.

    Regarding frame choice, there are some people who like drop bars for at least relatively easy off-road riding (see the very long Fargo thread in the Salsa forum), but if there are many long, rough downhills or much technical riding then I think you will be better off with flat bars, and thus something like the Troll. (I'm planning to get a Troll soon myself for off-road and remote area/third world touring).

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    Let's face it, there's no right or wrong answer on the topic of disc vs. rim brakes.

    I ride in the mountains; I like disc brakes.

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