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  1. #1
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    MDS vs. the "standard" Surly dropouts – GO!

    Have heard comments here and there regarding preference for either one. Next purchase will be a Krampus frame and I'm wondering what the real and perceived advantages/disadvantages of each are.

    I have a seen a few ballsy folks mod the MDS bits for a belt drive which is mildly interesting, but I doubt I'll ever do that – planning on initially building as a 1xhowevermanyIcancramintotheback speed.

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    Keep in mind that the MDS versions of frames will be replacing the non-MDS versions. You won't have a choice soon enough.

    That being said I have both versions of the KM and while I have never had a single issue with the old drops the proliferation of clutch equipped derailers make them less then ideal for geared use. They can also be annoying when dealing with the brakes when run ss. IMO the MDS dropouts are one of the best systems to try to make a frame work both geared and ss (and igh, and ta).

  3. #3
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    I've got their regular rear-opening forkends with a derailleur tab on my Moonlander. I sometimes run geared (cassette hub) and sometimes SS.

    When running geared, the rear wheel is a slight bit of a hassle to remove. However, with the right technique it's not hard. I put this in the category of perceived disadvantage, it's not really a biggie.

    The MDS looks clean enough, but having more parts and bolts means more things to go wrong and the idea might bother some folks. (I'm one of them, luckily not in a pathological sense.) This is also a perceived disadvantage in my book.

    So whichever way you go, you'll really be fine.

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    On this subject, there has been some talk about Surly offering a "short stay" chip that will allow a shorter cs length with gears. Any confirmation? Surly seems to be slow to respond to emails about this.

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    I only have the old ones on my monkey, but hopping to get a new monkey or krampus or ICT sooner than later. I really want surly to build with the split in there so you automatically have the option to run belt drive if you want. I also hope that Paragon Machine Works will come out with an add on for the MDS somehow so you can use their tension system for single speeds. I think that would be neato.

  6. #6
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    after-market sliders that fit on a MDS frame? I like it.

  7. #7
    AOK
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    MDS vs. the "standard" Surly dropouts – GO!

    Biggest complaint I have read about MDS is that it makes the chain stay length longer.

    Someone correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't MDS also only allow for a direct mount style read dérailleur? Seems like that would limit your RD options. (Does SRAM make a dm read der?)

    Take this with a grain of salt - I have no first hand experience. My Krampus is one of the green ones with "classic" Surly drops.

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    I've barely scratched the surface of knowledge on various dropout configurations but does anyone know if Surly plans to ever offer an IGH compatible LHT? It makes sense that the arguably most popular touring bike in the world should be easily compatible with the Rohloff without using a tensioner.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOK View Post
    Someone correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't MDS also only allow for a direct mount style read dérailleur? Seems like that would limit your RD options. (Does SRAM make a dm read der?)
    based on info from a friend who just built a KM MDS:

    SS track-ends- CS is about 17" when slammed forward. no derailleur of course.
    142x12 chip- CS at about 17.5", Shimano Direct Mount derailleurs only.
    135x10 chip- CS at about 17.75", for use with any conventional derailleur

    I called Surly the other day and they confirmed for me that they are working on another chip that will work with conventional derailleurs and a 142x12 thru-axle. they said that the resulting CS length for the TA chip should be the same as the Shimano Direct Mount chips, which is about 17.5". they said there will be more info on it "very soon." hopefully they will publish a Spew about it.

    that sounds like it will work for me. I like riding my SS bike with the CS as short as possible but a bike with longer CS will be fine with gears.
    Last edited by mack_turtle; 01-14-2015 at 03:32 PM.

  10. #10
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    I have had three bikes with the classic Surly rear dropout, I'd rather have the new dropouts, esp when running a derailleur.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_papa_nuts View Post
    On this subject, there has been some talk about Surly offering a "short stay" chip that will allow a shorter cs length with gears. Any confirmation? Surly seems to be slow to respond to emails about this.
    I've read about this, too, but am not sure how it would work. An insert like a Monkey Nut would obviously make the chainstay longer, not shorter...

  12. #12
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    I'll choose option C, sliding dropouts, thank you.

    Seriously, what does the MDS get you that Paragon sliders don't?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnroyal View Post
    I've read about this, too, but am not sure how it would work. An insert like a Monkey Nut would obviously make the chainstay longer, not shorter...
    If you look at these pictures, it'll be obvious: Surly Modular Dropout System | Urban Velo

    Pay attention to the distance between the hub mounting bolt and two MDS attachment bolts (which are fixed to the frame). See how the SS chips allow the wheel to be slammed forward, but the RD chips have a slot further back.

    Making a "short chip" is only a matter of machining the dropout slot and RD attachment point more forward than the regular model. If Surly doesn't make it, anyone with machining skills and access to a CNC milling machine can.

  14. #14
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    Resurrecting this thread,

    Any news about a new MDS chip that would shorten the CS?

    To keep the playful nature of the Krampus, regular or ops frameset?

    Thanks.

    F

  15. #15
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    Yeah, it's just the slotted 12mm thru axle one. Not sure how much shorter it is though.

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