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  1. #351
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    Vik,
    I'm a fan of Jan's writings and a follower of his blog.
    However, while I suspect that he's right about most of his theories, some of them still lack proper testing, such as planing.


    In other news, i've been using the LHT for commuting.
    Fast 28c tires and a pair of heavly loaded Ortliebs (I need to carry a lot of stuff), 12 miles each way.

    It glides nicely and carries the load incredibly well. My old Ogre would do all sort of weird things with the same load, while with the LHT I forget I have the panniers (I really do)

  2. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar View Post
    Vik,
    I'm a fan of Jan's writings and a follower of his blog.
    However, while I suspect that he's right about most of his theories, some of them still lack proper testing, such as planing.
    The double blind testing he did to verify the performance benefit of planing was 1000% better than any other bicycle related product/performance testing I've seen done.

    The effect/benefit seems pretty hard to dispute.

    The thing we are missing is a convenient way to assess how a bike will work for a specific rider/load without having to test ride the bike.

    BTW - I think I have talked myself into keeping the LHT. It's well setup for my shorter rides into town and has dual racks for a lot of cargo hauling capacity. I wouldn't buy another LHT if I didn't have this one, but the money is invested and I wouldn't get it all back if I sold it.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  3. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    The double blind testing he did to verify the performance benefit of planing was 1000% better than any other bicycle related product/performance testing I've seen done.

    The effect/benefit seems pretty hard to dispute.
    While that was a good informal test, it is still far away from a scientific study.

    Once again, I believe he is right, but let's not mix (good) hipothesys and informal tests with scientific facts

  4. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar View Post
    While that was a good informal test, it is still far away from a scientific study.

    Once again, I believe he is right, but let's not mix (good) hipothesys and informal tests with scientific facts
    I'm just comparing the testing he's doing to the typical product/performance tests we get in the bicycle industry. By that standard this test is head and shoulders above what we normally get.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  5. #355
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    Just now catching up on the last couple weeks of discussion. I must say Ze, reading your negative experiences with the Camargue and Ogre is making me glad I hung onto my LHT all these years. That is one fine looking Monstertrucker you've got there. I do think that Surly must have punched up the tire clearance a bit in recent years. I'm fairly certain my 2008 LHT only had a mm or two of clearance at the chainstay with 700x45mm tires. Its been a while since I had the knobbies on. Anyway, yours came out nicely. Also, I completely agree with your assessment of the LHT's offroad manners. The low BB is only a problem on tough trails where you'd want suspension anyway. Otherwise its fine and lends some nice stability. The Trucker bombs on jeep trails and fireroads!

    The discussion of planning and frame flex is very interesting, though I've seen it all before. I would have to agree that the LHT rides better unloaded for us heavyweight riders. I'm a little north of 250 and think it rides fine. Go figure. I do, however, still prefer to ride my CC if I'm unloaded and trying to go fast (emphasis on the trying part). It could be the CC's shorter chainstays that make it seem zippier. The frame is certainly plenty stiff, but maybe not quite as stiff as the Trucker.
    Surly Cross Check: fat tire roadie
    Surly LHT: Kid hauler
    On One Inbred: SS 26er

  6. #356
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    Bolandjd,
    I should say that I didn't wanted to bash the Ogre, it was a great bike, sometimes I really miss it.
    But it had some trouble with loads. It was not very stable with rear panniers and flexed quite a bit. Probably related to the high BB and short chainstays.
    Also, the short chainstays meant that heelstrike on the panniers was easy and annoying.
    This could be corrected with a Tubus Logo rack, but to have the weight backwards would worsen the stability problem

    Anyway, in memory of my Ogre:Long Haul Truckers...-img_2047_1024x683.jpg

  7. #357
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    That reminds me of my Straggler, so many things bugged me about it that I needed something else, but there are still things I miss about it.

    Eff those dropouts though.

  8. #358
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    Well, I don't have an Ogre, but I do have a KM and I agree that they are very different bikes from the LHT. LHT is great if you're hauling stuff but the ride is pretty flat/unresponsive. It chews up miles well though. I built up a Pacer for day rides last year and it really feels much better for unlaoded riding and my average pace has increased quite a bit. The LHT is a great bike for its intended purpose but I just don't get a chance to do much touring.

  9. #359
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    Ze - oh no, no. Definitely don't mean to bash the Ogre. Great bike. I still want one (one of these days). But, you know, sometimes its reassuring to know that the grass isn't always greener on the other side.
    Surly Cross Check: fat tire roadie
    Surly LHT: Kid hauler
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  10. #360
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    Hi Guys,
    This has been an interesting discussion to read. I have had an LHT for awhile (2008) and got an Ogre this last spring. I have not toured on Ogre yet. What I have planned for tours this next summer I plan on taking LHT because of the surface I will travel on but I plan on a dirt road trip around Colorado summer 2016. I am interested if anybody shares differences on touring LHT vs Ogre. Or, I'll just have to get out there myself and make my own conclusions.

  11. #361
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    Jim, I have neither an Ogre or LHT, but being a resident in the rockies, I'd say bring the bike that you can stuff the fattest tires in. There are some chunky roads in CO and having some 2.4" tires under you would be preferable. Plus, you can get some good MTB action in. That said, the LHT will be up for the job as well--just not as comfortably.

  12. #362
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    Here's a little tour I did this summer on my LHT from north OR to central CA. The bike did great! Everyone that owns a LHT should try a long ride at least once.

    1000 miles of burritos

  13. #363
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    Does anyone can confirm if the Marathon 700x47 would fit a Crosscheck?
    Thanks,
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  14. #364
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    It does fit with room to spare. It measures closer to 44mm in real life on 23mm rims.

  15. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaultbrad View Post
    It does fit with room to spare. It measures closer to 44mm in real life on 23mm rims.
    Thanks good to know I have wider options for my Ccheck.
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  16. #366
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    I'm almost sure that the complete range of 700x50 Marathons will fit the latest LHTs without problems. Not so sure about the CC.

    Here's an interesting post on Surly's Blog:

    Tire Clearance And Your Surly Frame | Blog | Surly Bikes

    It's now official that the Truckers have more frame clearance than the CC/Straggler

  17. #367
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    700x50 Marathon's aren't really 50mm fat - more like 46mm. Thanks for the blog post - good read. Surly must have punched up the tire clearance a little on the 700c Truckers, because I'm sure my 2008 max's out at 45mm. I really need to throw the knobbies back on to see. My CC definitely tops out at 45mm, and that's with 135mm hub. With a 130mm hub, you lose a mm or so of clearance in the back. I've said it before, but I'll say it again. The "gravel grinder" fad has been really good for us 700c LHT owners. There are so many more tire options in the 35-45mm range than there were when I first bought my Trucker.
    Surly Cross Check: fat tire roadie
    Surly LHT: Kid hauler
    On One Inbred: SS 26er

  18. #368
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    Yes, they are mostly between 45 and 47mm wide, and by that I mean Marathons, Mondials, Supremes, etc, as well as Big Bens, Big Apples, etc. Continental tour and trekking tires also seem to havÍ the same sizing

  19. #369
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    My LHT has now around 550km.
    I like it more each km

    Besides being 200lbs unequipped, I carry daily my work clothes, 2 full meals, boots and shower stuff in the panniers.

    It's amazing how well the frame carries the load. I can climb standing, sprint and have fun like if it was unloaded.
    Instead of a chore, the loaded commuting is just a regular, fun bike ride

  20. #370
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    ^Sounds about right. I miss riding my LHT. My Troll is equipped with studded tires so it's become my daily wnter rider.

  21. #371
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    I just sold my 56cm 26" LHT. I road toured with 1.6" Continentals and sold it with 1.75" Marathon Racers. Both tires were easy rollers but I never could shake the feeling of unfunness. The frame just felt dead to me. I will say the 26" wheel size was a winner though, especially when climbing for hours and because light, fat rubber is so nice on beat up streets and dirt roads.

    I replaced it with a vintage 1987 Schwinn Sierra with newish components set up for mixed on and off-road touring. I built a set of Sun Ryhno Lites with XT hubs running fat Geax Saguaros. The geometry is very similar to my trucker and the frame is doubled butted 4130. However, unlike the LHT, the ride is fun, with just the right mix of stiffness and compliance. With a full diamond triangle, I can run a Revelate Tangle Bag and 2 bottles. Tire clearance is huge, easily clearing Super Motos and maybe even fatter tires.

    Now just trying to decide between Midge bars, Open Bar or something like a Mary or Soma Sparrow.

  22. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddle Up View Post
    I miss riding my LHT.
    Did you sell your LHT?
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

  23. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfltroll View Post
    Did you sell your LHT?
    I believe he's saying it's stored for the winter while the Troll with studded tires gets most/all of the use.

  24. #374
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    It's safe to say that I've found LHT tire clearance limits

    I can confirm that with the 29x2.0 Race Kings there's no space for fenders. Surprisingly, the limit is at the fork, the fenders slip easily at the back

  25. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar View Post
    It's safe to say that I've found LHT tire clearance limits

    I can confirm that with the 29x2.0 Race Kings there's no space for fenders. Surprisingly, the limit is at the fork, the fenders slip easily at the back
    I guess Fit is a relative term. On my bikes, I want around 10mm clearance between the tire and fender to feel safe.

  26. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfltroll View Post
    Did you sell your LHT?
    Never.

    Quote Originally Posted by phsycle View Post
    I believe he's saying it's stored for the winter while the Troll with studded tires gets most/all of the use.
    ^This. I'm officially over winter.

  27. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddle Up View Post
    ^This. I'm officially over winter.
    You need a Pugs. Or Moonlander. Or ICT. Something fat.
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

  28. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar View Post
    Bolandjd,
    I should say that I didn't wanted to bash the Ogre, it was a great bike, sometimes I really miss it.
    But it had some trouble with loads. It was not very stable with rear panniers and flexed quite a bit. Probably related to the high BB and short chainstays.
    Also, the short chainstays meant that heelstrike on the panniers was easy and annoying.
    This could be corrected with a Tubus Logo rack, but to have the weight backwards would worsen the stability problem
    I agree that the Ogre has more rear flex than I expected though for me, its just yet another compromise I needed to make not being able to afford a custom frame set.

    Funnily enough reports of the Mk1 Fargo at the time having this issue, contributed to my Ogre purchase decision.

    I went with a Tubus Cosmo rear rack and haven't experienced any heel strike issue.
    Perhaps as you allude, its rack/model specific.

    I haven't found stability to be a problem but I imagine riding style will have a lot of influence on this issue.
    My riding is staid (slow and steady) without seeking the roughest path like some and never seeking any air.

    Overall I've been impressed with the budget frame set and for my use and the price still don't see anything obviously better except perhaps the coming World Troller for my infrequent overseas and interstate travel here in Australia.

    The Disk Trucker was a close second choice for me, but I felt I needed a little wider tyre ability for the local off road conditions.

    If I could have more than one bike, there would definitely be a Trucker in the stable set up much like my Ogre with stainless racks n fenders.

    I'm not of the bike-packing fraternity as I like too many camping creature comforts than what can be carried via frame-bags.

    Its great that Surly can cater to so many owner demands with their choice of bike/frame-sets.

  29. #379
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    Fat bikes are the Harley Davidson Street Glide of the bicycle world

    Quote Originally Posted by dfltroll View Post
    You need a Pugs. Or Moonlander. Or ICT. Something fat.
    I just can't bring myself to do it. I commute 25 kms a day and it's hard enough without adding the extra weight and rolling resistance of a fat bike. It seems to me it's like using a sledge hammer to do finishing carpentry. I pass a couple of fat bike riders most mornings and they are going a lot slower and seem to working a lot harder to accomplish the same result. It really doesn't look to be much fun once the novelty of it wears off.

    Another passion of mine is riding motorcycles, I've been riding for them for 46 years. I ended up working at a Harley Davidson dealership last year. My HD of choice is a Sportster. The Street Glide is Harley's best selling model by a large margin which I simply don't understand. I took a demo unit out for a day just so I could see what they are all about. The whole time I was riding it I kept thinking to myself that I just don't get it. The thing weighs over 800lbs, is the size of a barge and handles like one also.

    Other Harley riders would wave at me and the I'm thinking to myself no don't wave, this isn't really who I am, I normally don't ride one of these things. I felt somewhat embarrassed and self conscious about being indentified as a Street Glide rider. It's not who I am at all. When I took the SG back and jumped on to my Sportster all was right with the world once again, this is how a motorcycle should feel.

    I'm afraid that this is just how I feel about fat bikes. I know the whole time I would be riding it I would be feeling just like I did riding the SG. I'm far more efficient on my Troll or LHT.

    Like I said it seems to me it's like using a sledge hammer when a finishing hammer is the better tool for the job. I'm doing 500kms a month commuting in the middle of winter, spending more time on a bike recreational riding even on a fat bike does not seem appealling. I can hardly wait for spring so I can get some dirt and pavement thats not covered with ice under my tires.

  30. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddle Up View Post
    Like I said it seems to me it's like using a sledge hammer when a finishing hammer is the better tool for the job.
    I've felt the same way. I sold my fatbikes recently when I moved to a less favourable location for fat tires where using them would be gratuitous. Having owned a fatbike for 5-6yrs I was over the new zealousness where I'd use it for everything just because.

    Bikes are tools. Use the right one for the job at hand.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  31. #381
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    Ehh, they may be a novelty. It works for some and not for others. You just don't know until you try it yourself. But I will say, I bought one despite my skepticism, and romping through the snow, mud or even dry trails on 5" Lou's is a hoot. Would I use it to commute everyday or even ride trails everyday? No. But sometimes overkill is fun.

  32. #382
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    I'll be buying another fatbike one day I'm sure. When I've got a regular use for big tires again.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  33. #383
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    The LHT with the bullmoose bar I posted earlier has been replaced as my favorite LHT build by this one that was posted on the Facebook LHT page. This could easily be mistaken for a mid-80's MTB and is pretty much how I will set up an LHT if I ever get one.

    Long Haul Truckers...-10364206_10205579961205921_8757895481265595869_n.jpg

  34. #384
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    I love that^

  35. #385
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    Mine started out that way.

    Surly Long haul Trucker by SaddleUpBike, on Flickr

    Surly Long Haul Trucker by SaddleUpBike, on Flickr

  36. #386
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    Yours too, SaddleUp. Also the big 62cm mountain bikey one that belongs to someone else on the forum. It's blue.

  37. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddle Up View Post
    Mine started out that way.

    Surly Long haul Trucker by SaddleUpBike, on Flickr

    Surly Long Haul Trucker by SaddleUpBike, on Flickr
    I think yours is the first LHT I saw set up like an old-school MTB. Those photos really got me looking into an LHT frameset.

  38. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by corwin1968 View Post
    I don't know if this bike has been posted but it's easily one of my favorite LHT's, if not my absolute favorite!!


    Attachment 948666
    Quote Originally Posted by corwin1968 View Post
    The LHT with the bullmoose bar I posted earlier has been replaced as my favorite LHT build by this one that was posted on the Facebook LHT page. This could easily be mistaken for a mid-80's MTB and is pretty much how I will set up an LHT if I ever get one.
    Dude, can you please stop? Between you and SaddleUp, I'm going to end up building up another bike that I don't have space for right now!!

  39. #389
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    I have a 1990 Ritchey Ultra that's minty fresh that is way to big for me. Thinking about putting all of the parts on the LHT.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/saddle...7636656598034/

  40. #390
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    After going back and forth on CC or LHT, I ordered a CC today. Both would have been great options for my use, so I ended up using color as the determining factor - foam green over smoggy pearl (I was looking at the discounted prior models of both). I'm sure I'll regret not getting the LHT at some point - that's typically how it goes.

  41. #391
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    How it usually works Cassavant is you get a Surly in your stable and instead of regretting not choosing the LHT....you will soon have one too!!! Good Luck with your CC!!!

  42. #392
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    I have both. No regrets!
    Surly Cross Check: fat tire roadie
    Surly LHT: Kid hauler
    On One Inbred: SS 26er

  43. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar View Post
    It's safe to say that I've found LHT tire clearance limits

    I can confirm that with the 29x2.0 Race Kings there's no space for fenders. Surprisingly, the limit is at the fork, the fenders slip easily at the back
    Anymore updates on your LHT?

    I never thought I'd say this but I'm actually contemplating a 700c LHT rather than the 26" version!! One reason is that I already have a superb set of custom built 700c wheels and the other is that the idea of a bike that cruises like a cadillac (at least that's how one LHT owner described on Facebook) is sounding more and more appealing to me. The clincher is the probability that a 700c LHT will fit Big Apple tires.

    One thing I don't think I saw in your posts is how wide your rims are. Wider rims result in wider tires so hopefully yours are as wide as my Dyads (24mm).

  44. #394
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    My LHT is happlily living as my do it all bike, which it does pretty well.
    Is currently with SKS fenders and Continental 40c Speedride tires.

    My rims are Rigida Sputniks, 25/19mm wide.

    Without fenders the 700x50 Big Apples fit with no problem

  45. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by corwin1968 View Post
    Anymore updates on your LHT?

    I never thought I'd say this but I'm actually contemplating a 700c LHT rather than the 26" version!! One reason is that I already have a superb set of custom built 700c wheels and the other is that the idea of a bike that cruises like a cadillac (at least that's how one LHT owner described on Facebook) is sounding more and more appealing to me. The clincher is the probability that a 700c LHT will fit Big Apple tires.

    One thing I don't think I saw in your posts is how wide your rims are. Wider rims result in wider tires so hopefully yours are as wide as my Dyads (24mm).
    Not to mess up your plans, but Compass Tires just announced that they will be producing a 26x55mm tire. If they're anything like the 650bx42 version I'm riding, this will be the cadillac of all tires. They will also be doing a run of 650b x 48mm tire. Both should fit well in a 26" Disc Trucker. Just throwing that out.

  46. #396
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    Will any of the retailers ship LHTs?

  47. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by ranchonodinero View Post
    Will any of the retailers ship LHTs?
    complete no... not unless maybe you pay locally... but even that may be a very gray area... but frameset only yes
    - Surly Disc trucker
    - '82 trek 560 roadie

  48. #398
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    My 13 yr old has grown into mine

    Long Haul Truckers...-wmlht.jpg
    Last edited by HardyWeinberg; 04-11-2015 at 10:55 AM.

  49. #399
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    and that is a long ways from riding in a trailer behind it, with or without his little sister

    Long Haul Truckers...-img_4165.jpg


    (I think he's still wearing the same helmet though)

  50. #400
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    Great news,

    Was assembling my mother's new trekking bike and decided to do an experiment with her wheelset:









    Schwalbe 29X2.0 Big Bens with fenders and more than enough room.
    I'll assume that Big Apples, Fat Franks and the 29x2.0 Marathon range will be similar sizewise.


    Now, dear Surly, why don't you increase the LHT's tire clearance just a bit in order to fit 2.1 knobbies and end up with a true contender to the Specialized AWOL, Salsa Fargo, Trek 920 and Riv Hunqapillar?

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