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  1. #301
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    The Pugs has a very high BB for a bike that runs such big wheels. It has a similar BB drop to a Co Motion Pangea (26").
    So it can run 26" without problems.
    Also, tire clearance is so big, that when running wheels without offset the tire just stays to one side without rubbing anything.

    Here is the post with the wheel tests:
    Pugsley wheel experiments | Pedaling in Place

    Back to LHT discussion

  2. #302
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    Phew, I'm glad that's settled.

    So...if I were touring in such a remote area that I needed 26" wheels, I'd probably rather have a Troll than an LHT for a variety of reasons that we can discuss in the Troll forum if you really want to. But...since I'm not, I'd rather have 700c wheels, which means I'd rather have an LHT. Actually, I keep being tempted by the Ogre, which I'm sure is a wonderful bike, but the LHT just does everything I need so well that I can't bear to part with it but that's neither here nor there. Anyway, that's just me.
    Surly Cross Check: fat tire roadie
    Surly LHT: Kid hauler
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  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar View Post
    The Pugs has a very high BB for a bike that runs such big wheels. It has a similar BB drop to a Co Motion Pangea (26").
    So it can run 26" without problems.
    Also, tire clearance is so big, that when running wheels without offset the tire just stays to one side without rubbing anything.

    Here is the post with the wheel tests:
    Pugsley wheel experiments | Pedaling in Place

    Back to LHT discussion
    The Pug's BB height is smidge higher than normal, but that is also to accommodate for the extra squat from the fat tires. Trek Superfly has a 58mm drop and Scott Scale has 60mm, so not that high, comparatively. Glad to see it can clear non-offset wheels. Again, the issue will be brake set up. If you're so far out in the sticks that you can only find 26" wheels, chances of coming up with a disc hub would be slim as well. Which goes back to my original point--you can cobble together stuff to make any bike work. Translation: Quit over-thinking this crap and get a bike!

    Quote Originally Posted by bolandjd View Post
    Phew, I'm glad that's settled.

    So...if I were touring in such a remote area that I needed 26" wheels, I'd probably rather have a Troll than an LHT for a variety of reasons that we can discuss in the Troll forum if you really want to. But...since I'm not, I'd rather have 700c wheels, which means I'd rather have an LHT. Actually, I keep being tempted by the Ogre, which I'm sure is a wonderful bike, but the LHT just does everything I need so well that I can't bear to part with it but that's neither here nor there. Anyway, that's just me.
    Simple solution: Get an Ogre and keep the LHT.

    I think we are all overthinking this stuff--wheel size, bb drop, blah blah. Chances of a wheel failing on a tour is fairly slim (no hard evidence on this, but just talking to people and reading blogs). Knock on wood, my rigid MTB that I flog on rocky terrain has yet to break a spoke. Just get a bike you like and ride.

  4. #304
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    This makes good sense:

    Quote Originally Posted by phsycle View Post
    Which goes back to my original point--you can cobble together stuff to make any bike work. Translation: Quit over-thinking this crap and get a bike!
    ...
    I think we are all overthinking this stuff--wheel size, bb drop, blah blah. Chances of a wheel failing on a tour is fairly slim (no hard evidence on this, but just talking to people and reading blogs). Knock on wood, my rigid MTB that I flog on rocky terrain has yet to break a spoke. Just get a bike you like and ride.
    But I am enjoying the discussion. Makes me miss my old long gone:


  5. #305
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    Thanks for your visit Joe, your old LHT is just awesome.

    More Japanese LHT porn:
    NORCOG????

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruzmissle View Post
    This makes good sense:



    But I am enjoying the discussion. Makes me miss my old long gone:

    Makes me want to put drop bars back on the LHT. I'll never let go of the LHT, it owes me nothing, there will always be space in the garage.

  7. #307
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    Funny that you said that Saddleup. I am currently doing some maintenance on my LHT, cables, brake pads, new chain, and decided to go back to drops after three years with an Albatross bar. I'll post up when I get done. Kind of scary how it is going back to its roots as an original 2009 complete bike.

  8. #308
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    I may or may not have posted on this thread in the past but after experimenting with 26" wheels and really liking them, I've had a strong interest in a 26" LHT but could never overcome some reservations about the bike.

    My latest foray in 26" wheels is an early 90's Rockhopper. I finally received the correct BB and built it up to rideable condition and LOVE it!! It overcame my reservations on the LHT. I was worried about the overall length of the LHT but the Rockhopper is only 4mm shorter. I was worried about the longer chainstays of the LHT but I found my heel hitting the tire of the Rockhopper so an additional 3cm will be beneficial. I was concerned that the LHT has more trail than I will like but the Rockhopper has even more.

    Since those reservations are gone and this LHT itch doesn't seem to be subsiding, I've decided to scratch it and take the plunge. Hopefully I can raise the funds to get what I want before they are all gone.

    Build:
    56cm 26" LHT frameset in Smoggy Pearl
    55mm Schwalbe Big Apple tires
    Deore 1x9 drivetrain with a 36t chainring and either an 11-34 or 11-36 cassette.
    Deore V-brakes
    Black MTB handlebars
    All other components will be black.

    I think I can get a frameset before they are all gone but unfortunately, it will be a 1x7 with silver wheels until I save the money for a new set of black ones.

    I am really excited about this project and can't wait to start riding it!

  9. #309
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    Changes

    It was time for some maintenance, new chain, cables, brake pads. I have been kicking around a return to drops and find this a good chance to go with it. I have been using an Albatross bar these last three years but found myself riding the front curve of the bars most of the time finding the most comfort there. So, back to drops. I also changed to a shorter stem. For a guy my height I have these freakish shorter arms! I find with the shorter stem it is a nice upright ride but I have more hand positions with the drops.

    From this:
    Long Haul Truckers...-img_1573.jpg

    To this:
    Long Haul Truckers...-img_0498.jpg

    And back to this:
    Long Haul Truckers...-img_0520.jpg

    It felt great on its first ride out in RMNP. This has always been my go to bike for a nice ride. Just like an old friend!! Interesting how close I have returned to the stock, complete bike I bought back in 2008!!
    Long Haul Truckers...-img_0529.jpg

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bangs View Post
    It was time for some maintenance, new chain, cables, brake pads. I have been kicking around a return to drops and find this a good chance to go with it. I have been using an Albatross bar these last three years but found myself riding the front curve of the bars most of the time finding the most comfort there. So, back to drops. I also changed to a shorter stem. For a guy my height I have these freakish shorter arms! I find with the shorter stem it is a nice upright ride but I have more hand positions with the drops.
    Nice ride! How tall are you? I'm 6'7" and have a 64cm Disc Trucker, and my height is mostly in my legs. I'm also looking for a comfortable handlebar setup.

    Also, I'm in Boulder, so its cool to know there is another tall Trucker out there. Maybe I'll run into you sometime.

  11. #311
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    asollie, I am 6'5". This bike is a 62 because in 2008 that was the biggest they had. I would love to upgrade to a 64 disc trucker but hard to justify selling off a perfect bike and start over just because Of the brakes. I have an Ogre that I got in the XXL and the fit on that bike is pretty good although my standover is right there. If I was a single track guy the XL would have been a better choice but it is good for FS roads and Rails to Trails type riding and touring that I like to do. My height is in my torso, really not that long of an inseam or PBH so I would have to try a 64 before I made the plunge.
    Maybe we will. I get down to the roads around Lyons and Longmont, late fall and spring to ride before it gets reasonable up here.

  12. #312
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    My LHT Deluxe

    Long Haul Truckers...-bike.jpgMy 54 cm trucker deluxe. I got it on ebay, and maybe a little small for me. I changed the bars to flat with a 70mm rise, and that helped. The bars are 28 inches wide, and so that seems to give me a lot of control.
    I may change the bars and add a stem riser later on. I am partial to trek bars, but my knees came too close with them.

  13. #313
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    Long Haul Truckers...-me-bike.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by alaskadude View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	930305My 54 cm trucker deluxe. I got it on ebay, and maybe a little small for me. I changed the bars to flat with a 70mm rise, and that helped. The bars are 28 inches wide, and so that seems to give me a lot of control.
    I may change the bars and add a stem riser later on. I am partial to trek bars, but my knees came too close with them.
    This is another pic of me next to the bike. It seems maybe a little small, but I am more used to a longer frame. I like how when I ride I am sitting upright. I am thinking of trying a stem riser and add some trek bars.
    I built this for a trip to Asia. The day before I left I had it all boxed up to go, but then lifted everything at once and decided I wasnt into packing all that around with me all winter. Im used to traveling around here with a 35 pound pack.
    So here I am in Asia with my 35 pound pack.
    Maybe next year Ill bring it. As I move about, it becomes more obvious the problems I would have encountered with such a big load. I travel here every winter, and so I could learn more and bring it later. Or not.

  14. #314
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    S&S couplers on LHT

    Long Haul Truckers...-s-s.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by alaskadude View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is another pic of me next to the bike. It seems maybe a little small, but I am more used to a longer frame. I like how when I ride I am sitting upright. I am thinking of trying a stem riser and add some trek bars.
    I built this for a trip to Asia. The day before I left I had it all boxed up to go, but then lifted everything at once and decided I wasnt into packing all that around with me all winter. Im used to traveling around here with a 35 pound pack.
    So here I am in Asia with my 35 pound pack.
    Maybe next year Ill bring it. As I move about, it becomes more obvious the problems I would have encountered with such a big load. I travel here every winter, and so I could learn more and bring it later. Or not.
    I keep replying to my own thread, but whatever.
    These are the S&S couplers that come on the trucker deluxe. Supposedly they are stronger than the original frame, and in my limited experience, I would have to say that they seem as strong as they need to be, if not stronger. Now surly has put these on a troll and travelers check, and the LHT is discontinued. It has been a fun project to put together, and I learned a lot. Ill probably take it on a longer trip eventually.

  15. #315
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    Here I am again, just placed an order on a 700c 58cm black LHT. This after a VO Camargue purchase that... didn't ended well...

    Can't wait to see how the frame behaves, in part because it shares so many traits with one of my fetish frames, the Rivendell Atlantis.

    Anyway, due to the Camargue build, I ended with a pair of 29x2.0 Conti Race Kings. After a couple of months at riding pressure the settled at 47,5mm wide. Any chances they are going to fit?
    Thanks

  16. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar View Post
    Here I am again, just placed an order on a 700c 58cm black LHT. This after a VO Camargue purchase that... didn't ended well...

    Can't wait to see how the frame behaves, in part because it shares so many traits with one of my fetish frames, the Rivendell Atlantis.

    Anyway, due to the Camargue build, I ended with a pair of 29x2.0 Conti Race Kings. After a couple of months at riding pressure the settled at 47,5mm wide. Any chances they are going to fit?
    Thanks
    It's been a while but I seem to remember 47.5 being on the tight side but doable. Not a lot of clearance for mud and such but it should work without rub.
    I had a set of WTB nanoraptors 29x2.0 on mine which were a bit bigger and worked with a bit of rub when riding on trails.

    Now the Atlantis could fit the Nanos any day of the week without an issue but costs 4 times as much (which is what I sold my LHT to fund).

    Current touring build is a Disc Trucker which meets my needs to a T

  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar View Post
    Here I am again, just placed an order on a 700c 58cm black LHT. This after a VO Camargue purchase that... didn't ended well...

    Can't wait to see how the frame behaves, in part because it shares so many traits with one of my fetish frames, the Rivendell Atlantis.

    Anyway, due to the Camargue build, I ended with a pair of 29x2.0 Conti Race Kings. After a couple of months at riding pressure the settled at 47,5mm wide. Any chances they are going to fit?
    Thanks
    I've been waiting for your monstercross Camarque to surface. Care to share what happened?

  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddle Up View Post
    I've been waiting for your monstercross Camarque to surface. Care to share what happened?
    +1. Do tell
    Surly Cross Check: fat tire roadie
    Surly LHT: Kid hauler
    On One Inbred: SS 26er

  19. #319
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    Oh, and my 700c LHT maxes out at 45mm in the rear, limited by the chainstay bridge. I could squeeze up to 50mm in the fork. Could be that newer ones have a little more clearance. You might want to confirm the clearance with your bike shop or Surly directly to be sure, if that's a deciding factor.
    Surly Cross Check: fat tire roadie
    Surly LHT: Kid hauler
    On One Inbred: SS 26er

  20. #320
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    It's threads like this that always toss a monkey wrench into my plans.

    I have a 29er Redline Monocog SS and a 26" Cannondale Enforcement. I got really good deals on both, but purchased them with intent on using as much of them as I can towards two Surly builds.

    The Cannondale will become a Troll, which will satisfy my bike packing, single track, errands cruiser.

    The Monocog donor project has been less mapped out as I don't know if having an Ogre (which was my initial plan for the Monocog) and a Troll makes a lot of sense. Ultimately, I'd like a more road-ish bike to go with the Troll, so I've been kicking around the Cross Check and Steamroller as frame options and have left out the LHT due to the vertical dropouts.

    Then I read this thread and I'm back to thinking the LHT would be a fantastic counter to a Troll. Maybe I just keep the Monocog for a rainy day 29er SS option and spring for a complete LHT.

    Someone talk me off the ledge. Please?

  21. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by bolandjd View Post
    +1. Do tell
    +2

    I've ruled out the Camargue for the time being, primarily because of the front-end geometry. For off-road riding I prefer MTB handling such as is found on the Karate Monkey/Ogre and Troll. The Camargue has trail like a road bike and I'm not that confident in my riding skills to be comfortable on that. Also, I can't seem to shake my obsession with 26" wheels and fat tires. I would love to try an Atlantis but right now I'm debating between a 26" LHT and a Troll, with the LHT leading 60/40.

  22. #322
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    I'm fairly confident that the Race Kings will fit, at least to a certain degree. If they don't, then it should be easy to sell them, as they are as new, and get a set of 700x47 Smart Sams.

    As for the Camargue situation, I prefer to wait until the process is 100% closed to post anything about it online, as you might understand

  23. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassavant89 View Post
    It's threads like this that always toss a monkey wrench into my plans.

    I have a 29er Redline Monocog SS and a 26" Cannondale Enforcement. I got really good deals on both, but purchased them with intent on using as much of them as I can towards two Surly builds.

    The Cannondale will become a Troll, which will satisfy my bike packing, single track, errands cruiser.

    The Monocog donor project has been less mapped out as I don't know if having an Ogre (which was my initial plan for the Monocog) and a Troll makes a lot of sense. Ultimately, I'd like a more road-ish bike to go with the Troll, so I've been kicking around the Cross Check and Steamroller as frame options and have left out the LHT due to the vertical dropouts.

    Then I read this thread and I'm back to thinking the LHT would be a fantastic counter to a Troll. Maybe I just keep the Monocog for a rainy day 29er SS option and spring for a complete LHT.

    Someone talk me off the ledge. Please?
    It depends if you are buying new wheels or not. If not, what is the rear hub size on the Monocog? If its 120mm, than the Steamroller will be an easier conversion. If its 135mm, than go with the CC. A SS LHT is technically doable, but maybe sub-optimal. If, on the otherhand, you are buying new wheels anyway (or at least a rear wheel), than your choice boils down what you want the bike to do. The LHT is decidedly towards touring/hauling loads. If that's not what you are going to be doing mostly, than you will probably be happier with the CC. Or the Ogre. My 2 cents.
    Surly Cross Check: fat tire roadie
    Surly LHT: Kid hauler
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  24. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by bolandjd View Post
    It depends if you are buying new wheels or not. If not, what is the rear hub size on the Monocog? If its 120mm, than the Steamroller will be an easier conversion. If its 135mm, than go with the CC. A SS LHT is technically doable, but maybe sub-optimal. If, on the otherhand, you are buying new wheels anyway (or at least a rear wheel), than your choice boils down what you want the bike to do. The LHT is decidedly towards touring/hauling loads. If that's not what you are going to be doing mostly, than you will probably be happier with the CC. Or the Ogre. My 2 cents.
    Thanks bolandjd, appreciate the feedback. The monocog has a 135mm hub, so agree the CC would be a better idea.

    After looking over the 26" LHT frame specs today, another option is to use the Cannondale as a donor for one of those, then use the Monocog as an Ogre donor. I'm intrigued at the idea of using the 2.1" Kenda tires on a Disc Trucker.

    Long Haul Truckers...-cannondale2.jpg

  25. #325
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    You have the right idea. Use the Cannondale as a 26" disc trucker donor and make a ss ogre. Killer bike stable, that.

  26. #326
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    As much as I think 2.1" tires look totally bad ass on a LHT I don't believe that tire size suits the character of the bike. There has been talk on this forum about how dead and unresposive a LHT feels when unloaded. Those folks were using 2.0" tires. With 1.6-1.75" the LHT makes a great do it all type of bike. A bike that still responds to input at the pedals and can feel spirted and responsive. Just speaking from my experience as always YMMV.

  27. #327
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    IMHO that will have a lot to do with wheel size to.
    As much as I tried, I never got to like the feel of 26" tires under 1.9". 1.6-1.75" 700c on the other hand seem to fit a much broader range of uses, at least to my taste.

    This is what got me into the VO Camargue in the first place, and now the 700c LHT.

    It might be that this same feel puts people on riding 26x2.0 tires even if they don't have absolute need for the width.

    But this is just my opinion

  28. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddle Up View Post
    As much as I think 2.1" tires look totally bad ass on a LHT I don't believe that tire size suits the character of the bike. There has been talk on this forum about how dead and unresposive a LHT feels when unloaded. Those folks were using 2.0" tires. With 1.6-1.75" the LHT makes a great do it all type of bike. A bike that still responds to input at the pedals and can feel spirted and responsive. Just speaking from my experience as always YMMV.
    This is something that I have some reservations about. I test rode a 54cm 26" LHT and it had the 38mm (or so) tires and I did not like the ride at all. It was too twitchy for what I'm looking for.

    I spent a few weeks riding a 1983 mountain bike with 2.15" Big Apples and loved it. That old thing has something like a 70 degree seat angle, 67.5 head angle and is as long as a battleship. I don't know how the tubing on that old MTB compares to a LHT but I really liked the way it rode. It's possible that the LHT is stiffer to the extent that I won't like the way it rides but I'm skeptical. It's one of those things that I don't think I'll have an answer for unless I actually ride one myself.

  29. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar View Post
    As for the Camargue situation, I prefer to wait until the process is 100% closed to post anything about it online, as you might understand
    OK, I feel that I'm now in condition to talk about the Camargue situation.

    Disclaimer: with this post, I don't want, by any means, to bad-mouth the VO brand. I'm more than sure that many users are and will continue to be happy with their VO products. I'm only sharing with other enthusiasts what happened to me, and let them draw their own conclusions.

    What happened was that the Camargue frameset came with a severely misaligned fork. A replacement fork was sent to me, and was also misaligned.

    At this point I agreed that the third fork would be the last chance for the frameset.
    Turns out the third fork also came misaligned and I returned the frameset.
    While disassembling the bike, I also detected a welding deffect in the left seatstay, which further validated my decision.

    My LHT will arrive this week.

    My lbs, Velo Culture Porto, was with me through all the process, great support. If you ever pass by northern Portugal, play them a visit, you'll not regret

  30. #330
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    I don't know if this bike has been posted but it's easily one of my favorite LHT's, if not my absolute favorite!!


    Long Haul Truckers...-000.jpg


    Long Haul Truckers...-00000.jpg

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    @Ze - Bummer dude. I've had nothing but good experiences with VO, but I've never bought a frame from them. Its too bad they couldn't make it right for you, but hopefully they didn't give you a hassle with the return.

    @corwin - Sweet Trucker! I love the vintage MTB look, especially those bullmoose bars. Where did you get those? I had my eye on Mountain Goat Goathorn bars a while back, but didn't pull the trigger fast enough as they don't seem to be selling them anymore.
    Surly Cross Check: fat tire roadie
    Surly LHT: Kid hauler
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  32. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by bolandjd View Post
    @Ze - Bummer dude. I've had nothing but good experiences with VO, but I've never bought a frame from them. Its too bad they couldn't make it right for you, but hopefully they didn't give you a hassle with the return.

    @corwin - Sweet Trucker! I love the vintage MTB look, especially those bullmoose bars. Where did you get those? I had my eye on Mountain Goat Goathorn bars a while back, but didn't pull the trigger fast enough as they don't seem to be selling them anymore.
    Unfortunately, that's not my bike. I found the pics via an image search. I agree with you on the threadless bullmoose handlbars. I would love to have a pair with the same up-rise of the 80's versions. Vintage MTB's and Randonneur bikes are the best looking bikes to my eyes.

  33. #333
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    Received my LHT today. I'm really excited, the frame screams solid and stout.

    For all concerned, the 2.0 Race Kings fit nicely

  34. #334
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    We need pics of course. Are you doing a dropbar monster cross build?

  35. #335
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    The frame set is still drying from the linseed oil treatment, so I'll only finish it in a couple of days.

    But yes, it's going to be a monstercross/tourer/commuter build.

    I was really surprised with the tire clearance, i could even go bigger than the 2.0 Race Kings. But that would start to be unpractical. All the 29x2.0 tires from the Marathon line shoud fit fine.

    Mind that mine is a size 58 700c LHT, 2015 model (ed coating, etc), so I don't know if they increased a little the tire clearaces this year

  36. #336
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    How much room do you have with the RK's? Enough for fenders?

  37. #337
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    The tires are currently 48,5mm wide, and they stopped growing. I didn't measured the actual room for the tires, but there was well over 5mm per side on the tighter spot (chainstays). I'll check it when the build is done.

    You could probably squeeze fenders there, but I'm not sure they'll be ideal. Which is understandable, since we are talking about the upper clearance limits of the frame. I'll do some experiments later...

    Anyway, here are some pics I took yesterday. May I say the images don't make justice to the actual clearance:

    Long Haul Truckers...-img_20141223_192206516.jpg Long Haul Truckers...-img_20141223_192154011.jpg

    Long Haul Truckers...-img_20141223_192139393.jpg

  38. #338
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    Ze-Zaskar, congrats on the new bike. I've run 700x47 Marathons (actual 41mm) on my LHT with no problem. I wouldn't have imagined that a tire like the Race King would fit. This makes me think that Schwalbe Big Bens in 700x50 would fit. Without fenders of course. Looking forward to seeing pictures of your complete build. I've been laid up since 10/31 with a broken foot. Still probably another 3 weeks until I can start riding. I miss it something terrible.
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

  39. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfltroll View Post
    This makes me think that Schwalbe Big Bens in 700x50 would fit. Without fenders of course.
    The Big Bens are reportedly 45mm wide, so they should fit with no trouble at all. I would even dare to say they would work with fenders, at least in my unit.

    I would love to try the WTB Nanoraptor 29x2.1. I have a feel they would fit (but not with the same clearance as the RKs)

  40. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar View Post

    I would love to try the WTB Nanoraptor 29x2.1. I have a feel they would fit (but not with the same clearance as the RKs)
    I would love to see this and I think you may be correct. The Nano's I've seen on bikes appear to be pretty narrow for 2.1" tires.

  41. #341
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    Just finished the build. No pics yet, I'm out of sunlight.

    Clearance at the tightest spot in the chainstays is 5mm per side, at the fork is 10mm per side

  42. #342
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    New flaps for the Trucker
    "You don't need a lighter bike, you need bigger muscles"

  43. #343
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    Just arrive from my first ride on the LHT

    Here are some pics:
    Long Haul Truckers...-img_20141228_163507362%5B1%5D.jpgLong Haul Truckers...-img_20141228_163628740%5B1%5D.jpgLong Haul Truckers...-img_20141228_163716033%5B1%5D.jpgLong Haul Truckers...-img_20141228_130031369%5B1%5D.jpg

    So far I'm really happy.
    The frame is stiffer than other steel frames, but still really comfortable due to the geometry.

    Off road it is a blast, much better than I expected. The low BB is actually a feature, IMO, as is the long and low geo. 0 pedal strikes so far.

    The frame likes to go straight. This can be a bad or a good thing. For the kind of roads, paths and trails I do, it's not a problem.

    There is some wheel flop at low speeds. The front end geometry is designed as a mid-high trail with 30-something tires, and becomes an high trail with the 29er tires. I believe this could be related.

    Can't wait to ride it again

  44. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddle Up View Post
    There has been talk on this forum about how dead and unresposive a LHT feels when unloaded. Those folks were using 2.0" tires. With 1.6-1.75" the LHT makes a great do it all type of bike. A bike that still responds to input at the pedals and can feel spirted and responsive. Just speaking from my experience as always YMMV.
    I switched to 1.75" supple tires to get a better unloaded ride from my LHT. Speed went up a few kph, but the same dead feel was there. IMO it's frame related and nothing you do with the tires will change that element of the ride.

    The smaller tires make the steering a lot twitchier compared to 2"+ wide rubber.

    However, the thing to keep in mind is we have riders who weight 80lbs and those that weigh 280lbs on LHTs. I'm 180lbs without any gear on. I bet if I was 250lbs I'd have a different opinion of how the LHT felt to ride unloaded.

    I picked up a Straggler and it's a lot more fun to ride unloaded.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  45. #345
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    Ze_Zasker, your bike looks great. It appears that you're using a disc hub in the rear and attached a cog where the disc goes? Interesting. I may have to try those tires on my LHT this summer. Thanks for posting.
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

  46. #346
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    Vik,
    I agree that rider weight maters.
    I weight 200lbs unequipped and can put some power on the pedals (just not for long, with the current shape...). The VO Camargue was so flexy that it jumped out of gear when sprinting or climbing aggressively. Yet the LHT feels perfect in this regard.

    Frames with long chainstays and relaxed angles are generally bad for perceived speed and acceleration. You power on and nothing special seems to happen. Our minds are constantly looking for by products of speed and acceleration, such as a loud exhaust on a motorcycle (we all know bikes with quiet exhausts seem slower).

    With the current heavy rims/light tires configuration the LHT was as fast as my classic GT Zaskar. But yes, it felt slower.


    Dfltroll, well spoted.
    That's a Velosolo 19t fixed cog. It magic gears with the chainrings in case of derailleur/brake failure.
    It might sound paranoid, but I once had to walk 15km because of a busted RD, so now all my bikes need to have some effective bailout sollution

  47. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I switched to 1.75" supple tires to get a better unloaded ride from my LHT. Speed went up a few kph, but the same dead feel was there. IMO it's frame related and nothing you do with the tires will change that element of the ride.

    The smaller tires make the steering a lot twitchier compared to 2"+ wide rubber.

    However, the thing to keep in mind is we have riders who weight 80lbs and those that weigh 280lbs on LHTs. I'm 180lbs without any gear on. I bet if I was 250lbs I'd have a different opinion of how the LHT felt to ride unloaded.

    I picked up a Straggler and it's a lot more fun to ride unloaded.
    I'm also wondering if frame size has something to do with it. I ride a 52cm, it has much smaller triangles than the 56-58-cm sizes you fellas ride. Mine does ride rough unloaded but with the right tires I wouldn't describe the feel as dead.

    I'm going to have to take my wife's CC out for ride one of these days and do my own comparison.

  48. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddle Up View Post
    I'm also wondering if frame size has something to do with it. I ride a 52cm, it has much smaller triangles than the 56-58-cm sizes you fellas ride. Mine does ride rough unloaded but with the right tires I wouldn't describe the feel as dead.

    I'm going to have to take my wife's CC out for ride one of these days and do my own comparison.
    Frame size definitely does matter. Good point.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  49. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar View Post
    Frames with long chainstays and relaxed angles are generally bad for perceived speed and acceleration. You power on and nothing special seems to happen. Our minds are constantly looking for by products of speed and acceleration, such as a loud exhaust on a motorcycle (we all know bikes with quiet exhausts seem slower).

    With the current heavy rims/light tires configuration the LHT was as fast as my classic GT Zaskar. But yes, it felt slower.
    My test course is a 25km each way flat commute. I use a bike computer and GPS to gather data on it. The flat elevation profile rules out bike weight as performance handicap within a reasonable range of comparison. What's left is aerodynamic drag, rolling resistance of the tires and the BQ planing effect.

    I switched to some supple low rolling resistance tires which added a few KPH to my average speed. I run a version of these same tires on each bike I've used.

    My riding position is similar on each bike and is dictated by my flexibility.

    I agree with you that rider perception is a major problem when it comes to evaluating bicycle performance. That's why I use GPS and bike computers to collect time and speed data.

    The LHT feels dead to ride unloaded and limits my actual performance. Based on what I understand about bikes I chalk that up to how the frame stiffness interacts with my body's ability to generate power. What BQ calls planing.

    https://janheine.wordpress.com/2014/...at-is-planing/

    Having said that I do think rider perception is important in some aspects of bike enjoyment. If two bikes performed exactly the same and you loved riding #1 and found riding #2 unpleasant it would be valuable to figure out why so you can avoid that experience on future bikes.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  50. #350
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    BTW - I should note my intent is not to say the LHT is and good or a bad bike based on this. I've had many years of great service from LHTs...particularly loaded up on tour or on errands.

    What motivates me to chat about this topic is that we seem to talk about many things when selecting bikes, but how the frame stiffness interacts with our bodies is not one of them yet I think it's the most important to me these days. When I am looking at buying a new bike that's where I start.

    It's not only a major factor in how well the bike will work for me, but it's not something I can tweak after purchase.

    I also don't want to come off as saying stiff is bad. Getting the correct amount of stiffness for your needs is what's important.

    I had a custom bike built to test out the BQ planing theory for myself. I pushed the limits of skinny light tubing for my fairly large frame size. The bike performed amazingly well with a minimal load in the bar bag, but was useless for carrying groceries or hauling my recycling.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

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