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  1. #251
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    Hey everyone, awesome info and pics of the LHT! My wife and I are looking at buying new rides and while she's dead set on a more road-ish bike (possibly the LHT or maybe a Vaya), I'm torn. We don't ride any hard core trails, but like the idea of being able to go off road a little too. We probably spend about 1/2 of our time on pavement and the other time split between gravel and packed dirt paths. We also like the idea of being able to load them up and go camping for the weekend too.

    I have some back and neck issues, so I prefer a more upright sitting bike. I've looked into the LHT as well as the Troll as I like 26". I've also looked at the Salsa Fargo as I'm ok with 29" and was told the natural position is more upright than on most other rides. But with the combo of the 29" wheels and the higher price tag (compared to the LHT and Troll), unless someone says the Fargo would be truly perfect for me, I'd lean towards one of the Surlys.

    Thanks for the feedback! These forums are amazing helpers!

  2. #252
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    cassavant - here is an article on LHT and Vaya:

    Salsa Vaya 1000 Mile Review (or our thoughts on Salsa Vaya vs. Surly LHT) @ The Path Less Pedaled

    Personally, I would get a 26" Disc Trucker, and fit it with 650b wheels and 42mm tires. I've got some Grand Bois tires on my randonneur bike and they're awesome on pavement and dirt. Check out this blog:

    Off The Beaten Path | News from Bicycle Quarterly and Compass Bicycles

    There are several good articles on the subject. But all bikes you listed should work out.

  3. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by phsycle View Post
    cassavant - here is an article on LHT and Vaya:

    Salsa Vaya 1000 Mile Review (or our thoughts on Salsa Vaya vs. Surly LHT) @ The Path Less Pedaled

    Personally, I would get a 26" Disc Trucker, and fit it with 650b wheels and 42mm tires. I've got some Grand Bois tires on my randonneur bike and they're awesome on pavement and dirt. Check out this blog:

    Off The Beaten Path | News from Bicycle Quarterly and Compass Bicycles

    There are several good articles on the subject. But all bikes you listed should work out.
    Hey Phsycle - thanks for the info! Much appreciated. I went down to the LBS today (again) and actually took a Fargo 3 for a ride. Man, that bike was so nice! I didn't think I'd like the woodchipper bars, but they seemed pretty comfy.

    They didn't have a Troll or an Ogre in the shop, so I took out a couple of Trek mountain bikes - one a 26" and the other a 29er. I honestly preferred the shifty feeling the 26" wheels provided. They seem to be more nimble than the bigger 29ers are, and I dig that.

    All in all, I'm really leaning towards getting myself the Troll and my wife the LHT.

  4. #254
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    Sounds like a plan. My wife loves her (Disc) Trucker. Troll's are pretty sweet, too. MTB geo, so if that works for you, go for it. You can outfit that with a 650b if you wish (in the future).

  5. #255
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    Another boring question:
    LHT owners, could you please measure the distance of the pedal axle to the ground on your bikes (crank at 6h). Also indicate tire size.

    Thank you very much

  6. #256
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    [QUOTE=Ze_Zaskar;11314439]Another boring question:
    LHT owners, could you please measure the distance of the pedal axle to the ground on your bikes (crank at 6h). Also indicate tire size.
    /QUOTE]

    That measurement is the bottom bracket height, which is a common ly supplied measurement..this helps compare frames without being there.

    I have a LHT and a Fargo, while similar they are very different. The LHT has a lower bottom bracket, lower to ground ...easier on/off.
    the steering loves to go straight..very stable bike. 622-42 Duremes, largest tire with fenders here. While I ride my LHT all terrain it is a pavement cruiser.

    The Fargo, quicker steering, higher BB, clearance for bigger tiires if needed. Also I get a more upright position..riser bar..need one bike like this. I run 622-50 Duremes, and Icespikers in the winter.

  7. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar View Post
    Another boring question:
    LHT owners, could you please measure the distance of the pedal axle to the ground on your bikes (crank at 6h). Also indicate tire size.

    Thank you very much
    9.5cm with schwalbe, little big ben

  8. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by gomadtroll View Post
    That measurement is the bottom bracket height, which is a common ly supplied measurement..this helps compare frames without being there.
    The measurement I see most often is BB drop. BB drop is way more precise, but the pedal axle to ground that I asked helps to get an idea os how low the bb actually is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatalpine View Post
    9.5cm with schwalbe, little big ben
    Ok, that's very low, and it is a 40mm tire. I imagine with a 35mm tire...
    I have a bike with a 110 pedal axle height with 42mm tires that consider to be low...

  9. #259
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    You would also need to factor in the crank length. But low BB is pretty much mandatory on a touring bike like the LHT, so no surprise there. This is why if I got one, I'd go 650b on a 26" frame.

  10. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by phsycle View Post
    You would also need to factor in the crank length. But low BB is pretty much mandatory on a touring bike like the LHT, so no surprise there. This is why if I got one, I'd go 650b on a 26" frame.
    With 170mm crank.

    On my cross check I have 13cm with schwalbe big ben 46X622 and 170mm crank

  11. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatalpine View Post
    With 170mm crank.

    On my cross check I have 13cm with schwalbe big ben 46X622 and 170mm crank
    Yeah, I have 43's on my Cross Check (170mm cranks) and still get strikes off-road. Not too bad, though.

  12. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatalpine View Post
    With 170mm crank.

    On my cross check I have 13cm with schwalbe big ben 46X622 and 170mm crank
    Outch, so that's with 170mm cranks...mine are 175mm.

    So we are talking about 90mm to the ground here...
    This might be a deal breaker for me

  13. #263
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    no pedal strike issues here

    Long Haul Truckers...-p1010015.jpg
    "You don't need a lighter bike, you need bigger muscles"

  14. #264
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    The garage door handle might say otherwise...


  15. #265
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    Hey LHT experts! I need your help. I found a used 2008 LHT for sale locally, and his asking price is $850. He says it has roughly 6000 miles on it, he's been the only owner, and he's selling to free up some money for custom build project. It has the stock saddle and pedals to get me started, and no upgrades. He says it's been handled with very good care and can be a daily driver on day 1. Pictures look nice, decals are all there, minor scuffs as you'd expect from a 6 year old bike, etc. I'd assume tires will need to be replaced at some point if they have 6000 miles on them.

    Is $850 a good price? What should I offer for it?

    Thanks everyone!

  16. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassavant89 View Post
    Hey LHT experts! I need your help. I found a used 2008 LHT for sale locally, and his asking price is $850. He says it has roughly 6000 miles on it, he's been the only owner, and he's selling to free up some money for custom build project. It has the stock saddle and pedals to get me started, and no upgrades. He says it's been handled with very good care and can be a daily driver on day 1. Pictures look nice, decals are all there, minor scuffs as you'd expect from a 6 year old bike, etc. I'd assume tires will need to be replaced at some point if they have 6000 miles on them.

    Is $850 a good price? What should I offer for it?

    Thanks everyone!
    The msrp for a complete LHT in 2008 was around $900 (I forget the exact price), so if he bought it on sale, $850 could be what he originally paid for it. Has it really had no depreciation in 6 years? Whether its still worth that much, I think, depends mostly on the condition it's in. If the guy has never replaced wear items like the cassette, chainrings, chain, and cables, then there's no way. He's probably dumping it before it needs some big money dropped into it. On the otherhand, if drivetrain is fresh and the maintenance is current and everything is in good condition, than it could be worth it. In 2008, the LHT had some pretty good stock parts - Sugino cranks, XT hubs and rear de, Dura Ace barcons. The parts spec has slipped a little bit in recent years, IMO. But, like you said, its still a 6 year old bike with 6 years and 6000 miles of wear and tear. 6000 miles and everything is still 100% stock? Sounds fishy to me.

    So here's what I would do. Go check out the bike. Look at the chainrings (especially the middle one) and the cassette. Are the teeth worn and hooked, or do they look relatively new? Check the chain with a chain wear tool. Is it good to go, or stretched and needing replacement? Check the cables. Are the cables or housings cut, split, rusty, frayed, or otherwise not functioning smoothly? Check the headset, bottom bracket, and hubs for smooth operation. Check the rims for wear. Check the brake pads for wear. Check the tires. For anything that needs immediate replacement (like a bald tire, worn chainring, stretched chain), research the cost to replace it with an equivalent part. Add it up and then subtract that figure from the $850 he's asking for. For worn but still serviceable parts, like the rims maybe, make a judgment call on how much more to subtract. That'd be a fair counter offer, I think. Don't forget to look the frame and fork over real close too. Good luck.
    Surly Cross Check: fat tire roadie
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  17. #267
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    It depends where "locally" is. Some markets, there is high demand for bikes like that, so drives the price up. Around here, $850 is way too much. Probably $600 is an avg price. But use bolandjd's method to negotiate. Good thing is, LHT's will last forever.

  18. #268
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    Update - bottom line price is $725. He says he replaced the original tires after the first summer, but put them back on to sell bike. Nothing else has been swapped out. Excessive chainring and cassette wear is not apparent.

    My gut is telling me $725 for a 6000+ mile bike with all original parts is too much to spend. I'm not going to buy.

    Thanks everyone!

  19. #269
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    I've got a Basket

    There was a time when I could never have imagined I'd be riding a bike with a basket

    Long Haul Trucker
    by SaddleUpBike, on Flickr

    The basket rack is mounted in 3 spots, the brake studs, fork crown and handlebar

    Long Haul Trucker
    by SaddleUpBike, on Flickr

    The ole work horse, my go to bike

    Long Haul Trucker
    by SaddleUpBike, on Flickr

  20. #270
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    Nice basket! I've been using a front rack myself (Nitto M12). I actually want to get a Cetma 5-bar rack now. So useful.

  21. #271
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    Saddle Up - that's a great looking bike!

  22. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar View Post
    Outch, so that's with 170mm cranks...mine are 175mm.

    So we are talking about 90mm to the ground here...
    This might be a deal breaker for me
    Had the opportunity to have a ride on a frame with a 80mm BB drop this weekend, with 35c tires. Didnt liked it, pedals too close to the ground on anything except road.

    On the other hand, just realized that a 26" trucker with 26x2.0 tires has a reasonably tall bb....

  23. #273
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    You guys are over thinking the BB height thing, IMHO. Yeah, its low. But its not so low that its a problem on dirt roads or smoothish trails. You've got to be in some deep ruts or serious knar for pedal strike to be an issue. Even then, if you're going downhill or have some momentum, you can always level the pedals and coast. But if you're really worried about offroad performance, get an Ogre or Fargo and ride happy.

    Saddle Up - killer LHT, as always. Still lovin' that Army green. Best color they ever had for the Trucker (not that I'm biased).
    Surly Cross Check: fat tire roadie
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  24. #274
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    Discussions aside, anyone saw this build?:

    ???????????????? ????????????????????????????? ????????

  25. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar View Post
    Discussions aside, anyone saw this build?:

    ???????????????? ????????????????????????????? ????????
    That thing is fabolus.

  26. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar View Post
    Discussions aside, anyone saw this build?:

    ???????????????? ????????????????????????????? ????????
    Wow - that's one amazing looking bike.

  27. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar View Post
    Discussions aside, anyone saw this build?:

    ???????????????? ????????????????????????????? ????????
    That is one of the nicest Trucker builds I've ever seen.
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

  28. #278
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    That thing is one of the coolest Surlys I've ever seen, thanks for the link. I've got to hand it to the Japanese, they approach "bike styling" from a whole different angle. That colour-combo would NEVER have occurred to me!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar View Post
    Discussions aside, anyone saw this build?:

    ???????????????? ????????????????????????????? ????????

  29. #279
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    Yes, it is amazing
    I believe It's my favorite LHT so far, it joins retro, mtb, expedition and utility in a single bike

  30. #280
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    Looking at the new model LHT complete parts list, I notice some things have changed and was wondering if the changes are slight or if they'll change the bike at all?

    New - Long Haul Trucker | Bikes | Surly Bikes

    Last Year - Long Haul Trucker | Bikes | Surly Bikes

  31. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassavant89 View Post
    Looking at the new model LHT complete parts list, I notice some things have changed and was wondering if the changes are slight or if they'll change the bike at all?

    New - Long Haul Trucker | Bikes | Surly Bikes

    Last Year - Long Haul Trucker | Bikes | Surly Bikes



    minor things... the new one now has a KMC chain (better chains IMHO)

    they moved to 10spd on the new model, so 10spd shifters and cassette.

    new saddle (new one is more racy... IMHO it's a wash as the old one sucked anyway and needs replaced with a brooks anyway

    and they changed the tires on the smaller 26" bikes and for the 700c line


    I personally would stick to the old one as I prefer 9spd and being a last years model you should be able to get a bit cheaper
    - Surly Disc trucker
    - '82 trek 560 roadie

  32. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by donalson View Post
    I personally would stick to the old one as I prefer 9spd and being a last years model you should be able to get a bit cheaper
    I would do the same, assuming you can get them for cheaper. I actually prefer 8/9 speed drivetrains on my geared bikes. In fact, I would prefer a 5-6 speed, but lots of MacGyvering and/or $$ to get it to work the way I want.

  33. #283
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    There is now need for a new thread call Monster Trucker. This thing is badass.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar View Post
    Discussions aside, anyone saw this build?:

    ???????????????? ????????????????????????????? ????????

  34. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar View Post
    Discussions aside, anyone saw this build?:

    ???????????????? ????????????????????????????? ????????
    Piling on
    WOW
    Super cool build, love it

  35. #285
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    My Disc Trucker next to an even bigger vehicle.


  36. #286
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    Made my decision, my next bike will be a LHT.
    Now trying to decide between 700c and 26" (size 58)....

  37. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar View Post
    Made my decision, my next bike will be a LHT.
    Now trying to decide between 700c and 26" (size 58)....
    I currently have a 700c disc trucker but am looking at adding a 26" of the same. For around the city I really like the idea of running a 26 inch 2.2 tire at lower psi.
    Enjoy which every you decide on!

  38. #288
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    Oops, doubled up. Why isn't there an option to delete when editing a post?

  39. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar View Post
    Discussions aside, anyone saw this build?:

    ???????????????? ????????????????????????????? ????????

    This thing looks amazing but in practical terms I'm not so sure. Lot's of chain stay and fork rub going to be happening. I find going bigger than 1.75"-1.90" on the LHT completely sucks the little bit of livelyness the frame has right out of it. The extra weight and rolling resistance of the large tires don't pay back in performance of equal measure. A 2.4" tire does not make the LHT in to a mountain bike, sorry.

    I think what would be really dandy would be a non-suspension corrected Troll with a level top tube. Screw the stand over clearance. I ride my LHT and Troll sometimes and think about building a combination of the two, the level top tube is the key. I want the look of the LHT and the geometry of the Troll in one bike.

    Sounds like a too big for me vintage mountain bike. I'm 5"8" so I can't ride a 20.5-21.5" mountain bike but I can ride a 52-54cm touring bike. See what I did there?

  40. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar View Post
    Made my decision, my next bike will be a LHT.
    Now trying to decide between 700c and 26" (size 58)....
    Fantastic! From my perspective:

    Advantage 700c -
    Holds momentum better, favoring long steady rides
    Better "roadbike" substitute
    Can run new(ish) crop of fantastic 35-45mm "gravel"/"all road" tires - Clement X'plor USH and MSO, BG Rn'R, Surly Knard, Grand Bois Barlow Pass, various Schwable tires, etc
    Looks nicer - more proportional

    Advantage 26" -
    Spin up/accelerate better, favoring shorter, stop-and-go rides
    Better "mountain bike" substitute
    Ability to run proper mtb tires or FAT slicks
    Touring places where 700c wheels/tires are hard to find, like developing countries and parts of the US where the only bike shop is also called Walmart
    Less toe overlap
    Convertible to 650b (if that's your bag)
    Surly Cross Check: fat tire roadie
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  41. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddle Up View Post
    This thing looks amazing but in practical terms I'm not so sure.
    That build could have 2.0 Mondials or 2.1 Smart Sams without any loss in awesomeness.

    Quote Originally Posted by bolandjd View Post
    Fantastic! From my perspective:

    My plan is to have two sets of tires:
    700C - 28c slicks and 700x47 Smart Sams or Mondials
    26" - 26x1.5 slicks and 2.0 Mondials or 2.1 Smart Sams

    Would the 700x47 be as good as the 26x2.0/2.1 off road?

    People talk about third world countries for 26" wheels availability, but I guess they would also come handy in the deep Spain Vila de la Plata route or in the middle of Hungary, which happen to be my next tours

  42. #292
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    Okay, I admit that the 'touring in third world countries' thing is sort of conventional wisdom, so I felt obliged to include it. However, I think plenty of people have toured successfully on 700c/29" tires in remote areas by carrying spares or being willing to stop and wait for a shipment or otherwise planning ahead. I've never been to Spain or Hungary, but I suspect 700c isn't hard to find there. In any case, all other things being equal, my preference is for 700c. I've ridden my 700c LHT offroad on 45mm tires and thought it did great. YMMV. Note that Schwable tires are usually narrower than marked, so the 47mm's probably won't be that big.
    Surly Cross Check: fat tire roadie
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  43. #293
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    Would 700x50 Mondials or Conti TravelContacts fit the 700c LHT?

  44. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by bolandjd View Post
    Okay, I admit that the 'touring in third world countries' thing is sort of conventional wisdom, so I felt obliged to include it. However, I think plenty of people have toured successfully on 700c/29" tires in remote areas by carrying spares or being willing to stop and wait for a shipment or otherwise planning ahead. I've never been to Spain or Hungary, but I suspect 700c isn't hard to find there. In any case, all other things being equal, my preference is for 700c. I've ridden my 700c LHT offroad on 45mm tires and thought it did great. YMMV. Note that Schwable tires are usually narrower than marked, so the 47mm's probably won't be that big.
    I agree with you there. If I were to start doing tours world wide, I would get a bike that fit the terrain, instead of worrying about the wheel size. This guy Joe Cruz tours on a fattie with no regrets. Try getting a Large Marge in a remote place...

    Touring on a Surly Pugsley (Progress Report) | Pedaling in Place

    Edit: This dude went around the world on 700c wheels and Rolhoff IGH.

    THE MAN WHO CYCLED THE WORLD EP1 - YouTube
    Last edited by phsycle; 08-11-2014 at 06:51 PM.

  45. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by phsycle View Post
    I agree with you there. If I were to start doing tours world wide, I would get a bike that fit the terrain, instead of worrying about the wheel size. This guy Joe Cruz tours on a fattie with no regrets. Try getting a Large Marge in a remote place...

    Touring on a Surly Pugsley (Progress Report) | Pedaling in Place

    Edit: This dude went around the world on 700c wheels and Rolhoff IGH.

    THE MAN WHO CYCLED THE WORLD EP1 - YouTube
    Joe Cruz was pretty relaxed about going down south with a Pugsley because he knew the bike could take a regular 26" wheel in case of emergency (or even a 29" wheel).
    He even had a post in his blog about that before the trip

  46. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar View Post
    Joe Cruz was pretty relaxed about going down south with a Pugsley because he knew the bike could take a regular 26" wheel in case of emergency (or even a 29" wheel).
    He even had a post in his blog about that before the trip
    I didn't know it was possible to set up a Pug with regular 26" wheels. Offset fork/frame won't take regular wheels and unless you find disc hubs, I didn't think rim brakes would reach skinny rims. Plus even if you were able to set it up with 26" wheels, you'd end up with a super low rider. I'm sure you could rig it up to get you rolling, but then, you could rig up any other bike at that point. Which was really the point of my post.

  47. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by phsycle View Post
    I didn't know it was possible to set up a Pug with regular 26" wheels. Offset fork/frame won't take regular wheels and unless you find disc hubs, I didn't think rim brakes would reach skinny rims. Plus even if you were able to set it up with 26" wheels, you'd end up with a super low rider. I'm sure you could rig it up to get you rolling, but then, you could rig up any other bike at that point. Which was really the point of my post.
    Pugs has a BB drop of 55mm; 26" LHT BB drop is 47mm. Not too much difference, if the Pugs had to run on regular 26" rubber. The offsetting would be a bigger issue, I think. I suspect you could kludge something and make it work well enough to get back to civilization to order the right parts.
    Is it my fault the LHT discussion turned into a Pugs discussion?
    Surly Cross Check: fat tire roadie
    Surly LHT: Kid hauler
    On One Inbred: SS 26er

  48. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by bolandjd View Post
    Pugs has a BB drop of 55mm; 26" LHT BB drop is 47mm. Not too much difference, if the Pugs had to run on regular 26" rubber. The offsetting would be a bigger issue, I think. I suspect you could kludge something and make it work well enough to get back to civilization to order the right parts.
    Is it my fault the LHT discussion turned into a Pugs discussion?
    Yes, but the Pug measurements are with a 740mm tire while the 26" LHT is based on 690mm tire. You could make it work, but not any easier than a LHT, KM, or any other bike. And yes, your fault.

    Edit: Just to clarify what I was saying, with the difference of 50mm in tire diameter, that means an extra 25mm drop if you put 26" tires on a Pugs. That would equate to an 80mm BB drop.
    Last edited by phsycle; 08-12-2014 at 08:07 AM.

  49. #299
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    Bb drop measurement has nothing to do with wheel size only where the hub spindle is... so that bb drop won't change if you've got 26er a 29er or even a 36er

    Quote Originally Posted by phsycle View Post
    Yes, but the Pug measurements are with a 740mm tire while the 26" LHT is based on 690mm tire. You could make it work, but not any easier than a LHT, KM, or any other bike. And yes, your fault.

    Edit: Just to clarify what I was saying, with the difference of 50mm in tire diameter, that means an extra 25mm drop if you put 26" tires on a Pugs. That would equate to an 80mm BB drop.
    - Surly Disc trucker
    - '82 trek 560 roadie

  50. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by donalson View Post
    Bb drop measurement has nothing to do with wheel size only where the hub spindle is... so that bb drop won't change if you've got 26er a 29er or even a 36er
    I realize that. Just talking about the "effective" BB drop. Just illustrating how severe the drop would be for the Pug if equipped with 26" wheels. BB height would be more appropriate here, but that info is not available on the Surly site.

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