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  1. #626
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    Bruce, thanks again for the pictures. It helps a lot. The bridge might be the indicator for the additional chainstay clearance. I do not have the bridge on my 08 Monkey. This also narrows down my choices for a new frame considerably: $1500 custom Waltworks with geo similar to a Monkey or a 2013 Monkey.

  2. #627
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumbee1 View Post
    Bruce, thanks again for the pictures. It helps a lot. The bridge might be the indicator for the additional chainstay clearance. I do not have the bridge on my 08 Monkey. This also narrows down my choices for a new frame considerably: $1500 custom Waltworks with geo similar to a Monkey or a 2013 Monkey.
    Racing Ralph 2.4 is doing fine on the rear mounted tubeless to a Flow on my new KM. It's pretty hard to imagine (at least for me) spending $1500 when a $400 frame does so well. But if you really want a tad more clearance to run the biggest of biggest meats that might come along, then perhaps it is worth it for you. It does not have the same clearance as my RIP 9 frame in the rear, but it's got enough more over my prior frame to run the Ralph 2.4 with no problems. I've actually got another tire that I want to run back there which I cannot mention (tire testing agreement) or show in pictures that is absolutely the cat's meow.

    The 2.4 Ralph in the rear with a nice comfy psi combined with the steel frame really makes this a supple ride. Keep in mind I'm running a suspension fork.

    I had it out in the wild today for 2 hours and will do the same tomorrow before snowstorm #1 of the season hits in the evening.

    P1010003

    P1010001

    Edit: 25.79 pounds as shown (with mud on the tires) in case anybody asks.
    Last edited by BruceBrown; 12-19-2012 at 09:17 AM.

  3. #628
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    The new 22" frame looks much better with the dropped top tube than the previous frames. I will be watching the bay for deals on a Large.

  4. #629
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    Bruce,

    Nice looking bike you've got there! Would you mind telling us your height and cycling inseam? Your bike looks pretty dialed...

    I'm almost 6'3", ~35" cycling inseam, can't test ride a L or XL...

  5. #630
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoastieTX View Post
    Bruce,

    Nice looking bike you've got there! Would you mind telling us your height and cycling inseam? Your bike looks pretty dialed...

    I'm almost 6'3", ~35" cycling inseam, can't test ride a L or XL...
    I have 6'3" with 37" inseam and was between 20" and 22" - I choosed 22".

    Your 6'3" and 35" means, that you must have a longer upper body than me. 22" should be prefect for you because of the longer effective top tube

  6. #631
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoastieTX View Post
    Bruce,

    Nice looking bike you've got there! Would you mind telling us your height and cycling inseam? Your bike looks pretty dialed...

    I'm almost 6'3", ~35" cycling inseam, can't test ride a L or XL...
    Sure. I'm 6'3" (191.5cm), 35.5" cycling inseam. The L would be too small for me and I would have to run 130mm stem and a set back post to make that rideable. On the XL, I run a 120mm stem with the seat slammed as far bike as I can get it. Using 175mm cranks on the Monkey in hopes it helps with the "spin", but I use 180mm on all my other bikes.

  7. #632
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    I am 6'2" with a 34" inseam and ride a 20" with a 105mm stem and setback seatpost. I used to like a larger bike with a short stem and straight post but with the Monkey, I prefer the exact oppsite. The Monkey feels nimble and eager with the smaller frame.

  8. #633
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    I've been riding larger bikes lately, but I downsized back to my old ways with the Monkey. At 6'3", I'm riding a 20" frame. Compared to my 22" Soma Juice, the wheelbase is about 1.5" shorter, due to the shorter chainstays (by 15mm or so) and the shorter top tube (by 20mm or so). That makes the KM quite a bit more flickable, it seems. I run a 100mm stem on the KM vs. a 75mm on the Soma.

  9. #634
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    My new to me Surly Karate Monkey. XTR, Avid black ops, Chris King, Thomson stem/seatpost, American Classic tubeless.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Let's see your KM builds-4h8c4593_2.jpg  


  10. #635
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    6'2.25", 35.25" inseam long arms and I got the XL, can't imagine running anything smaller. I run a 90mm stem and 750mm wide low rise bars. Bruce AFAIR doesn't run a bar over 700, so take that into account when he list his stem length. When I ran a 685mm wide bar I also ran a 110-120mm stem.

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown View Post
    Sure. I'm 6'3" (191.5cm), 35.5" cycling inseam. The L would be too small for me and I would have to run 130mm stem and a set back post to make that rideable. On the XL, I run a 120mm stem with the seat slammed as far bike as I can get it. Using 175mm cranks on the Monkey in hopes it helps with the "spin", but I use 180mm on all my other bikes.
    Quote Originally Posted by CoastieTX View Post
    Bruce,

    Nice looking bike you've got there! Would you mind telling us your height and cycling inseam? Your bike looks pretty dialed...

    I'm almost 6'3", ~35" cycling inseam, can't test ride a L or XL...
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
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  11. #636
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    6'2.25", 35.25" inseam long arms and I got the XL, can't imagine running anything smaller. I run a 90mm stem and 750mm wide low rise bars. Bruce AFAIR doesn't run a bar over 700, so take that into account when he list his stem length. When I ran a 685mm wide bar I also ran a 110-120mm stem.
    True that.

    680mm is as wide as I'll go for the tree lined Midwest singletrack.

    I should also add that the HT length on the new XL is a full 15mm taller (.59") which, when combined with a 100mm fork, a small 2-3mm spacer and a 0 degree rise 120mm stem got the bars up to my preferred height.

    I don't have any profile shots of me riding the Karate Monkey (yet), but all my bikes are set up the same in terms of cockpit and the distance between bars and saddle - and all bikes are size XL 29"ers.

    So here's profile, or almost profile shots to give CoastieTX an idea of my 6'3", 35.5" measurements on the size XL big wheeled bikes...

    Tallboy XL (this was a rental/demo out in Santa Cruz and the bar was wider than 700mm with a shorter stem which I flipped negative and slammed the saddle all the way back on the rails)

    2012-07-07 11.23.08

    New JET 9 XL

    Shredding the Maskenthine XC Race

    Dos Niner XL

    Wheelhouse Drops

    Old JET 9 XL with 80mm fork before the frame got recalled

    Bluff Riders Charge at Mt. Kato

    Old Jet 9 XL with 80mm fork

    ClosingThatGap

    Here's what happens to me with a short stem and wide bars (this on my largest size XL - the Gary Fisher Sugar 293 which is a really long frame and wheel base in that size). My arms get "squashed" and a I feel too out of balance with wider bars and a short stem. Between that and nicking trees, I've got to stay at 660-680mm in width for XC riding and racing where I live and ride. My arms and hands tend to gravitate to the most natural position to keep me comfortable, and that sweet spot is 620-660mm for a natural feel with my shoulder width and arms. I have tried, though, to adapt to wider as well as narrower bars with various stem lengths.

    Sugar 293 size XL (short stem 80mm and 710mm bars)

    TranquilityRoadCrossing

    I just don't see or feel how I would be able to ride on a size L (unless it was a really long size L with a head tube length of 125-145mm)
    Last edited by BruceBrown; 12-28-2012 at 09:22 AM.

  12. #637
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    Thanks guys for all feedback on sizing.

    As much as I'd like to go with a L and have a more flickable bike, I've gone down that road before and it didn't work out. Included are a few pics of an old bike (Niner MCR9, size L with 120mm stem) that was eventually replaced. I seem to have a tendency to buy bikes I can't test ride first, and wanted a little reassurance on sizing before buying.

    How are the horizontal dropouts with disc brakes working out for you guys? Are you able to remove the rear wheel without touching the brake caliper, and what are you using to ensure the wheel goes back into the same position every time? Seems like some kind of hardware would be in order...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Let's see your KM builds-ninerfit1.jpg  

    Let's see your KM builds-ninerfit2.jpg  


  13. #638
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoastieTX View Post
    Thanks guys for all feedback on sizing.

    As much as I'd like to go with a L and have a more flickable bike, I've gone down that road before and it didn't work out. Included are a few pics of an old bike (Niner MCR9, size L with 120mm stem) that was eventually replaced. I seem to have a tendency to buy bikes I can't test ride first, and wanted a little reassurance on sizing before buying.

    How are the horizontal dropouts with disc brakes working out for you guys? Are you able to remove the rear wheel without touching the brake caliper, and what are you using to ensure the wheel goes back into the same position every time? Seems like some kind of hardware would be in order...
    Holy SEATPOST Batman!!!

    The new disc brake mounts on the Karate Monkey over the early generation(s) removes all need to worry about rear wheel removal and brake caliper issues. What do we use to ensure the wheel goes back in the same spot? Tuggnut for me. Even if I don't get it in the exact same spot every time - it doesn't matter. It all works out fine.

  14. #639
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    That's funny, I think a lot of seat post looks great. Has me thinking a Large Niner now (I'm easily swayed)

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown View Post
    Holy SEATPOST Batman!!!

  15. #640
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    Quote Originally Posted by seat_boy View Post
    That's funny, I think a lot of seat post looks great. Has me thinking a Large Niner now (I'm easily swayed)
    Granted, the Niner frames have more of a sloping TT which leads to more post showing than some other frames that have a more "classic" TT look and slope. CoastieTX makes that size L look tiny and he was right - IMO - to have moved on to a bigger frame. The size L MCR 9 has a 110mm head tube length, and the XL has a 130mm head tube length - which, IMO, is an excellent improvement for taller riders. The TT - or more importantly, the reach - is only about a 13-14mm difference (depending on which fork travel) which makes dialing in the cockpit very easy. The extra 63mm in seat tube length would help mitigate so much post showing which for taller guys (who are usually heavier) is a nice thing to make sure enough of the seatpost is in the frame to prevent any breakage of the frame - or the post. When comparing the Karate Monkey size XL, the wheelbase is 9mm shorter on the Surly XL than it is on the size L Niner MCR 9. So CoastieTX would absolutely retain the "flickable" component he mentioned and improve overall fit compared to the size L MCR 9 in the pictures.

    Taller riders? The good news for Surly and tall drinks of water is that they offer the Ogre in size XXL which has a 140mm head tube length (wish they would have gone to at least 145mm with that). Since the bike is the same as the Monkey geometry-wise, only with all the options to build it out with cantilever brakes, fenders, racks, etc... - it's a good option for taller riders to be considering rather than trying to make a size XL Karate Monkey fit. Good pictures here of a 6'5" rider on the size XXL Ogre. I'm 2" shorter than he is and really feel that with my leg length, arm length and height just about stretch the size XL KM to its limits. So it is really good to see Surly offer the next frame size up in XXL. Several companies are doing that now (Trek, Specialized, Ventana, Surly, Santa Cruz, etc...)...to take care of the tall crowd so they don't have to go custom.

    There are a lot of unique things that go into our fit (torso length, arm length, leg length, foot size, etc...) which leads to what frame will fit and work the best. And there are plenty of "tweeners" that sit ride on the edge of being able to make 2 sizes work. And some companies make a longer, larger size L than others - as well as a shorter, smaller size XL than others. Add in personal preference and feel on the bike. Add in the adjustment period to something new, or how long it actually might take somebody to dial in the best bar/stem, cleat position, saddle position - and it can take quite a while to really narrow down what is best for each individual.

    I chimed in so much in the recent portion of this thread simply because CoastieTX, at least on paper with the height and inseam, is about as close as it gets to my own height and inseam as it gets. That doesn't mean we end up on the same size bike, saddle height, stem length, bar width, etc... - but it's a good starting point for consideration.

    I do, for me at least, show a lot of post on my size XL road bike.

    P1010001
    Last edited by BruceBrown; 12-28-2012 at 09:27 AM.

  16. #641
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    Thanks for that bit of info Bruce, did not realize they'd done an XXL in the Ogre. I may take a look at getting one as I've never quite felt the XL Monkey was big enough for my tastes, ETT is shorter than most other XLs I ride.

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown View Post
    ........................Taller riders? The good news for Surly and tall drinks of water is that they offer the Ogre in size XXL which has a 140mm head tube length (wish they would have gone to at least 145mm with that). Since the bike is the same as the Monkey geometry-wise, only with all the options to build it out with cantilever brakes, fenders, racks, etc... - it's a good option for taller riders to be considering rather than trying to make a size XL Karate Monkey fit. Good pictures here of a 6'5" rider on the size XXL Ogre. I'm 2" shorter than he is and really feel that with my leg length, arm length and height just about stretch the size XL KM to its limits. So it is really good to see Surly offer the next frame size up in XXL. Several companies are doing that now (Trek, Specialized, Ventana, Surly, Santa Cruz, etc...)...to take care of the tall crowd so they don't have to go custom.
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  17. #642
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Thanks for that bit of info Bruce, did not realize they'd done an XXL in the Ogre. I may take a look at getting one as I've never quite felt the XL Monkey was big enough for my tastes, ETT is shorter than most other XLs I ride.
    True.

    Looks to me like a size XL Karate Monkey is just about 1/2 way between a Trek Rig size L and XL confirming that the KM size XL is a "small" XL compared to others. I just chose the Rig since it is a SS and many KM's are purpose built SS's as well. The Surly sizing is rretty close to the Salsa sizing as well - but that's no surprise since Salsa and Surly are under the same Quality Bicycle Products "roof".

    Since Surly does the Ogre in XXL, I have to assume it wouldn't take Surly much to also offer the KM in the same XXL size. Why they don't, I don't know? I'm sure there are some who would enjoy having the bigger frame option, but I guess Surly could also retort that the Ogre has the same exact geometry and comes in size XXL - so get an Ogre.

  18. #643
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    KM sS. Picked up off eBay for a winter beater all around suffer mt. bike. New, fully stock. Needs a brooks saddle. Let's see your KM builds-imageuploadedbytapatalk1356734706.719194.jpgLet's see your KM builds-imageuploadedbytapatalk1356734733.796006.jpgLet's see your KM builds-imageuploadedbytapatalk1356734776.217333.jpgLet's see your KM builds-imageuploadedbytapatalk1356734808.167168.jpg
    My other geared km somewhere in fort ord Let's see your KM builds-imageuploadedbytapatalk1356734873.659535.jpg.

  19. #644
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    nice! what size frame is that? other than the wheelset, what have you changed?

    Quote Originally Posted by haloblue View Post
    2013 KM.

    King hubs & Stan's added the Enve bars as well. Next will be a carbon seat post, and better brakes.

    The new wheel set completely changed the bike. Night & day.

    Attachment 739130
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  20. #645
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    Sorry to hi-jack this thread, but I need some advice with regard to which 3x10 (or 3x9) drivetrain for the 2013 KM I'm building for the gf. I'm familiar with SRAM mainly, but not FDs that need to be clamped to the 28.6mm seatpost. Shimano seems to suit the KM measurements better I think, but I defer to your advice.

    Cost is an issue also. She won't pay for a $300 crank!

    Thanks,

    Neil
    Current Stable: 2011 Niner EMD, 2011 Vassago Jabba

  21. #646
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niner_Boy View Post
    Sorry to hi-jack this thread, but I need some advice with regard to which 3x10 (or 3x9) drivetrain for the 2013 KM I'm building for the gf. I'm familiar with SRAM mainly, but not FDs that need to be clamped to the 28.6mm seatpost. Shimano seems to suit the KM measurements better I think, but I defer to your advice.

    Cost is an issue also. She won't pay for a $300 crank!

    Thanks,

    Neil
    i might not be reading your question right, but- something that i personally ran into with my KM: i used a 10 speed SramX7 front der on my set up. because most of the mechanics of this derailleur are oriented towards the rear tire, i had clearance problems and wasnt able to push my back wheel as far forward in the dropouts as i would have liked. Surly does address this on their site if that isnt an issue, most derailleurs are now made at 34.9mm clamp size, and meant to be shimmed down, which is what i ended up doing.

  22. #647
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    I'd consider maybe a direct mount front derailleur with a ProblemSolvers adaptor.

  23. #648
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    My Monkey frame arrived and I've assembled as much as I can without the headset, chain and cables & housing. Pics will soon follow

    EDIT: here she is, still need to trim the cables and housing a bit.

    Last edited by JeepDave; 01-11-2013 at 11:41 PM.

  24. #649
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    The more I look through this thread the more I tell myself that I need to sell all my bikes and buy one of these.

  25. #650
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    Quote Originally Posted by UCF Eric View Post
    The more I look through this thread the more I tell myself that I need to sell all my bikes and buy one of these.
    YOU WONT REGRET IT!

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