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  1. #1
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    Issue - 2012 KM rear brake woes - just a heads up

    For anyone who has or is planning to purchase a 2012 just wanted to give a head up about an issue I came across during my recent build.

    ***Disclaimer***
    this is not a b!tch session, Im not trying to say Surly is a terrible company in any way, shape or form. This post wasm created expressly for the purposes of share my experience and information regarding an issue that may or may not affect current or future customers. I have no concerns that this issue will not be handled appropriately and expect nothing but quality customer service from Surly.***end***

    I appears with the newer brake mount that Surly did not take into account the ability/need to run larger rotors than 160mm. I have contacted my LBS, will be bringing the frame in over weekend so they can follow up with Surly, who I did try to contact also. Surly was not in, apparently they product testing which I found out when I contacted QBP. QBP said they wer not aware of any issue, however Surly may or may not be aware. Anyhow I will keep you all informed as things proceed.

    This issues in question is with the 185 adapter being longer than the 160 and hitting on the rack mount braze on (see pics). Im pretty sure I know what Surlys solutions is going to be, cut it off, but want to be sure to get expressed consent before doing so.

    The first 2 pics are obviously the 185 adapter and the last the 160. You can clearly see that the 185 is hitting on the braze on.

    Anyhow not much more to say till I hear back from Surly. I will keep you all posted. Now get out and ride.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Issue - 2012 KM rear brake woes - just a heads up-img_20120127_075857.jpg  

    Issue - 2012 KM rear brake woes - just a heads up-img_20120127_075841.jpg  

    Issue - 2012 KM rear brake woes - just a heads up-img_0036.jpg  

    Guy.Ford

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  2. #2
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    Side note - just for information purposes - As another poster in another thread already posted, the front IS mounts on the Surly KM fork, def needs to be faced before installing BB7 brakes. I had the same issue with my brake rubbing on the rotor, from the brake being pushed to far inboard towards the hub. No big.
    Guy.Ford

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  3. #3
    Fat boy Mod Moderator
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    good heads up
    - Surly Disc trucker
    - '82 trek 560 roadie

  4. #4
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    Why would you want a big rotor on the rear when it provides such a small % of the total braking force? You should be able to skid that rear wheel with a 160mm rotor no problem.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  5. #5
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    Wait, you're saying bigger isn't always better?
    WTB: Specialized AWOL frameset, XL

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Why would you want a big rotor on the rear when it provides such a small % of the total braking force? You should be able to skid that rear wheel with a 160mm rotor no problem.
    Why ask why, do you really care or do you just enjoy criticizing people for their personal choices? Sorry not trying to be a ******, I just dont see how your post was helpful or related to the topic at hand? I didnt ask for opinions on rotor size.
    Guy.Ford

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Ford View Post
    Why ask why, do you really care or do you just enjoy criticizing people for their personal choices? Sorry not trying to be a ******, I just dont see how your post was helpful or related to the topic at hand? I didnt ask for opinions on rotor size.
    Why ask?

    Well a lot of people don't understand that their back brake is next to useless for any serious braking and that makes putting a big rotor on the back fairly useless. A 160mm rotor will skid that back wheel easily and beyond skidding there is no more braking you'll get from the rear with a 180mm or 200mm+ rotor.

    That info might just make this major frame problem disappear. Which in my mind is worthy of discussion before you start hacking off braze ons.

    Do you think it might not be an oversight on Surly's part that you can on;y fit a 160mm rotor on the back of their frame without taking a dremel tool to it?

    If you don't care and want a big rotor on the rear anyways - cool - it's your bike, but it's not like I called you names and ran your mother over with my car is it?
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  8. #8
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    looks like you could file off a bit of that adapter to make it fit. agree w/vikb 185mm rear rotor is complete overkill.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Why ask?

    Well a lot of people don't understand that their back brake is next to useless for any serious braking and that makes putting a big rotor on the back fairly useless. A 160mm rotor will skid that back wheel easily and beyond skidding there is no more braking you'll get from the rear with a 180mm or 200mm+ rotor.

    That info might just make this major frame problem disappear. Which in my mind is worthy of discussion before you start hacking off braze ons.

    Do you think it might not be an oversight on Surly's part that you can on;y fit a 160mm rotor on the back of their frame without taking a dremel tool to it?

    If you don't care and want a big rotor on the rear anyways - cool - it's your bike, but it's not like I called you names and ran your mother over with my car is it?

    You really dont get the point of a larger rotor do you, oh well. Moving on.

    While I do think it was an oversight, however I dont think it was intentional since every other year they've made the KM you could run any size rotor you want. Also its not mentions anywhere on there site or in any literature that comes with the frame. Actually the literature and site say just the opposite, they both talk about how versatile the frame is.

    Nope you didnt do either of the 2 things you mentioned, nor did I say you did. However you did criticize my "build" like I was asking your opinion, which I didn't and I also did not appreciate your opinion about what rotor size I should be running.
    Guy.Ford

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  10. #10
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    Conclusion to this issue, by LBS were I purchased the frame from, told me to dremel off the braze on since I had no intention of using. The shop owner said if anything ever came of from a warranty point, he would take care of me.

    Oh and for the record, not once did my LBS owner recommend running a smaller rotor or question my use of a 180mm rotor.
    Guy.Ford

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Ford View Post
    Oh and for the record, not once did my LBS owner recommend running a smaller rotor or question my use of a 180mm rotor.
    Since they know you I'm not surprised. Enjoy the new Karate Monkey - the new version of it looks sharp...
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  12. #12
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    Ok, I'll bite. what's the point of a large rotor on the rear wheel?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybull View Post
    Ok, I'll bite. what's the point of a large rotor on the rear wheel?
    Lots of good info here, wanted to know are bigger brake rotors better , Im esp partial to post #11 Ray Lee, except for his part about modulation. I wont have an issue with that, I have SD7 levers.
    Guy.Ford

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  14. #14
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    Did they change the rotor and braze ons between the 2011 and 2012? I didnt have any problem mounting my 180's on my 2011.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by huevos View Post
    Did they change the rotor and braze ons between the 2011 and 2012? I didnt have any problem mounting my 180's on my 2011.
    Yeah surly changed the rear disc brake mount, so you no longer have to (re)move the caliper to remove the rear wheel. In doing so they also moved the rack mount up from the dropout, onto the seatstay and in the way of running an adapter above 160mm without having to modify (partially cut off) the rack braze on.
    Guy.Ford

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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Ford View Post
    Yeah surly changed the rear disc brake mount, so you no longer have to (re)move the caliper to remove the rear wheel. In doing so they also moved the rack mount up from the dropout, onto the seatstay and in the way of running an adapter above 160mm without having to modify (partially cut off) the rack braze on.
    ahhh I see what they did here....they moved the braze on up. The drop out appears to be the same.

    relevant posts:

    Let's see your KM builds

    Let's see your KM builds

  17. #17
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    I'm not an engineer, but couldn't this be solved with a different adapter? (if such a thing was available?)


  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyharing View Post
    I'm not an engineer, but couldn't this be solved with a different adapter? (if such a thing was available?)

    Sadly, no LBS tried every 180 adapter available.
    Guy.Ford

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  19. #19
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    We're Sorry, we were hung-over that day. Seriously though, thanks for bringing this to our attention at Surly. We did move some things around on the Karate Monkey and let that slip through our fingers. The 2012 KM have issues with brake rotors as follows the 20” will not take 185mm/203mm. The 22” won’t work with 203mm and the 18” might have issues with 185mm depending on the brakes and manufacturer that you go with. Thanks to this post we spent all kinds of time fiddling around with our Monkeys yesterday and learned all those crazy things. All of these numbers came from the brake caliper being in the “fully forward” position, some of the frames have some playroom if you’re willing to have your brake and wheel a bit further back. Our engineers (big nerds that they are) endorse running a 160mm on the rear and a bigger one up front. We never think it's a good idea to go cutting things off your Surly, though that's never stopped anybody in the past (including some of us, we make a habit out of doing things we think aren't good ideas). Now, if you want to take a dremel tool to your brake adapter and make it fit, then that's between you and your deity of choice.

    Gern Blanston, Surly Bikes

  20. #20
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    What was the verdict on grinding down the adaptor? The picture makes it look like it wouldn't need too much taken off.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by drstrang View Post
    We're Sorry, we were hung-over that day. Seriously though, thanks for bringing this to our attention at Surly. We did move some things around on the Karate Monkey and let that slip through our fingers. The 2012 KM have issues with brake rotors as follows the 20” will not take 185mm/203mm. The 22” won’t work with 203mm and the 18” might have issues with 185mm depending on the brakes and manufacturer that you go with. Thanks to this post we spent all kinds of time fiddling around with our Monkeys yesterday and learned all those crazy things. All of these numbers came from the brake caliper being in the “fully forward” position, some of the frames have some playroom if you’re willing to have your brake and wheel a bit further back. Our engineers (big nerds that they are) endorse running a 160mm on the rear and a bigger one up front. We never think it's a good idea to go cutting things off your Surly, though that's never stopped anybody in the past (including some of us, we make a habit out of doing things we think aren't good ideas). Now, if you want to take a dremel tool to your brake adapter and make it fit, then that's between you and your deity of choice.

    Gern Blanston, Surly Bikes
    Gern,

    You the man, thanks for the follow up. Yeah I was not completely thrilled with cutting the frame, my LBS said they would cover me if there was ever an issue with warranty because of the braze on removal. Honestly if I had known it was size specific I wouldve returned it for an 18" frame. FWIW, I didnt have to remove the whole braze on , just a little over half, so I could potentially mount a rack if I wanted. Anyhow super cool of you to post up and give us the heads up, much thanks for clearing this up.

    Oh just to share my experience and what I found during my setup to mount the 180. I had to remove over half the braze on. The adapter had to be run in the furthest most rearward position on brake mount and I had to use the Monkey Nuts that came with the frame, otherwise the caliper would rub on the rotor.



    Guy
    Last edited by Guy.Ford; 01-31-2012 at 11:53 AM.
    Guy.Ford

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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybull View Post
    What was the verdict on grinding down the adaptor? The picture makes it look like it wouldn't need too much taken off.

    I had to remove a little over half the braze on and now the adapter fits perfectly. Interesting note, I had to use the supplied Monkey Nuts and the adapter had to be put in the furthest rear position on the brake mount for the caliper to clear the rotor. FWIW, my LBS did not wait for follow up from Surly, instead told me to just remove and if any issue arose down the line with warranty or whatever, they would cover me. So this is not a Surly approved solution.
    Guy.Ford

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  23. #23
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    I liked that straight up answer from Surly. You don't see that very often in this world. Even though he did make up that name, I'm sure. "Gern Blanston"? Yea, right.

  24. #24
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    I didn't know Steve Martin worked at Surly...

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Why ask?

    Well a lot of people don't understand that their back brake is next to useless for any serious braking and that makes putting a big rotor on the back fairly useless. A 160mm rotor will skid that back wheel easily and beyond skidding there is no more braking you'll get from the rear with a 180mm or 200mm+ rotor.

    That info might just make this major frame problem disappear. Which in my mind is worthy of discussion before you start hacking off braze ons.

    Do you think it might not be an oversight on Surly's part that you can on;y fit a 160mm rotor on the back of their frame without taking a dremel tool to it?

    If you don't care and want a big rotor on the rear anyways - cool - it's your bike, but it's not like I called you names and ran your mother over with my car is it?
    See below ...

    Quote Originally Posted by drstrang
    We're Sorry, we were hung-over that day. Seriously though, thanks for bringing this to our attention at Surly. We did move some things around on the Karate Monkey and let that slip through our fingers. The 2012 KM have issues with brake rotors as follows the 20” will not take 185mm/203mm. The 22” won’t work with 203mm and the 18” might have issues with 185mm depending on the brakes and manufacturer that you go with. Thanks to this post we spent all kinds of time fiddling around with our Monkeys yesterday and learned all those crazy things. All of these numbers came from the brake caliper being in the “fully forward” position, some of the frames have some playroom if you’re willing to have your brake and wheel a bit further back. Our engineers (big nerds that they are) endorse running a 160mm on the rear and a bigger one up front. We never think it's a good idea to go cutting things off your Surly, though that's never stopped anybody in the past (including some of us, we make a habit out of doing things we think aren't good ideas). Now, if you want to take a dremel tool to your brake adapter and make it fit, then that's between you and your deity of choice.

    Gern Blanston, Surly Bikes
    Doesnt seem like Surly cares that I run a bigger rotor on my bike or has an issue with it. Also, yeah it seems like it was an oversight, no big, sh!t happens and my issues have been addressed, so everything is ROXOR! Party on vikb, party on guy.ford
    Guy.Ford

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