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  1. #1
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    Help - need a favor from an Ogre Owner with a camera and a few minutes to spare

    I'm trying to size myself for an Ogre frame before I hit the buy button
    from Jensonusa or the like.

    My current bike has "approx" 89.5cm or 35 inches between the top of the saddle and the spindle of the pedal at the bottom of its stroke (kept in line with the seat tube of the frame).
    I'm 5' 11" and my inseam is approx 87.5cm or 34 inches when I do the book between the legs thing and mark against the wall.

    (Just had a scare as my landlady is due home and I was having difficulty getting the pen mark off the wall - LOL. Some methylated spirits did the trick in the end and the stress nearly caused me a heart attack).

    My thoughts were it might be relevant how much seatpost is standing up out of the frame.
    I'd like to see a comparison between an 18 and 20 frame size.
    If anyone with either an 18 or 20 inch Ogre and the time to take a pic with your saddletop and pedal spindletop with 35 inches between them it would be a huge help in me deciding which Ogre frame to buy.

    I've had different advice and not sure which way to go.
    Some people say go 18 as per most guys of my height in the Karate Monkey thread whilst others say go the 20 due to me wanting a touring/bikepacking rig for on and off road long distance touring.
    My last mountainbike had a 19 inch seat tube and I always thought I might have liked a tad smaller frame although I also wonder now if the real issue was how long the stem was as I felt too stretched out.
    I didnt know then I could have just bought a shorter reach stem.


    Can anyone help?

  2. #2
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    Here is my 20" Ogre with the seat height at 36". I could not get the 410mm seatpost to go down any further.

    Help - need a favor from an Ogre Owner with a camera and a few minutes to spare-p1010963.jpg
    Last edited by ianick; 02-07-2013 at 11:08 AM.

  3. #3
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    the top of my brooks is 76cm (29") from the center of my bb.....
    20" ogre frame...have since cut 20mm off my steerer tube....
    imo, the bike looks more balanced with this amount of seatpost...it might look out of proportion with another 2" of seatpost showing.

  4. #4
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    I can say with little doubt that you should be on a 20" with those measurements, as they are very similar to mine
    '15 Specialized Fatboy
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    '13 Surly Big Dummy

  5. #5
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    The 20" frame has a standover of 32.4" (which leaves you with a plenty of clearance down there), it has a somewhat slacker and longer head tube (than the 18" frame) and a longer wheelbase = all of which you will appreciate when touring, methinks

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by sea monster View Post
    it has a somewhat slacker and longer head tube (than the 18" frame)
    the 20" has a .5° steeper headtube than the 18".

  7. #7
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    Go 20" I'm nearly the same size as you. The 20" KM that shares the same geometry as the Ogre fits me nicely.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    I can say with little doubt that you should be on a 20" with those measurements, as they are very similar to mine
    What worries me is that my current ride (which I love) has an effective top tube of only 55.5cm. I measured from my quill stem center bolt across to my seatpost middle till level.
    I did another measurement from my bottom bracket spindle to the top of my seat
    and got 73cm.
    I dont enjoy being too stretched out as I tour in a mostly seat same height as handlebar upright position. I'm kinda worried about being too bent over on the 20.
    Theres no shops local to me that carry Surly in stock as they all appear to be buy on order for some reason. My current bike is over due for refurbishment and cant carry enough water off road due to having flat rear rack that cant carry panniers. The rear frame tubes are too skinny to support a rear rack like a freeload.

    It takes 3 bottle cages but nowhere for my 10 liter Ortlieb water bags.
    Its great for on road long distance touring and I haul a two wheeled trailer for water when I do that but the trailer is redundant off road and its off the tarmac where I have my eyes at the moment. Here in Australia it can be many days between towns and water so for me its time for another bike.
    Last edited by rifraf; 02-07-2013 at 10:50 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny the boy View Post
    the 20" has a .5° steeper headtube than the 18".
    Correct. My bad.

  10. #10
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    Hmmmmmmmmm
    If I could see a 20 it would be easier. I wonder if I used a short stem of around 50mm instead of the factory fit 110mm and some Jeff Jones bars with would shorten my reach enough to be not so stooped over. Bloomin impossible for me to get my head around it without seeing one I guess.

    Thanks to everyone for the contributions so far - much appreciated.

  11. #11
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    rifraf,

    the difference between the effective top tube + stem length is 36mm (20" vs 18"). If you buy a 7 or 8cm long stem, you will pretty much achieve the same reach length, as you would have on the 18" frame. This is not a very scientific deduction (and whatever top tube measure can your on your current bike may feel very different on a 29er), but it gives you an idea.

  12. #12
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    I guess I'll be the devil's advocate here and totally disagree with everyone else here. I'm 5' 11-3/8" tall with a 33" book-to-crotch measurement. An important thing to note is that these things "run large"

    My 18" (Medium) fits me like a glove, but be aware that seat tube is actually 19.5" from center of BB to top of seat clamp. It fits similar to my old Bianchi S.A.S.S. which was labeled at "19.5" and I ride a 20" "Large" RMB Metropolis. Surly sizes these things measuring only to the top of the triangulated seat-tube gusset-tube thing.

    The E.T.T. is pretty long on the 18" (Medium) at 599.3mm, which is longer than my other "Large" bikes. I'm using a "short" 70mm stem with Open Bars.

    A lot of folks seem to be riding Ogres that are too big for them, in my opinion. The Medium fits like a Large to me.

    On the other hand, the angles of the tubes on the 20" look better. It's more of a triangle. The 16" (small) Ogre looks really good as well, because the top tube slant matches the seat-stays, and from the side, it's just a straight line from the head-tube to the rear axle. The 18" falls in between these two "visually appealing" tubing angles, and fails. The way the angles of the 18" tubes come together is the ugliest of the bunch, like a run-of-the-mill "sloping top-tubed" bike, but I'd rather have a bike that fits, than worrying about something no one else in the world would ever notice except me.

  13. #13
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    36" from pedal to top of saddle, 29" from center of BB:

    *oopspost*
    Last edited by Gritter; 02-18-2013 at 07:53 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trilancing View Post
    I guess I'll be the devil's advocate here and totally disagree with everyone else here. I'm 5' 11-3/8" tall with a 33" book-to-crotch measurement. An important thing to note is that these things "run large"

    My 18" (Medium) fits me like a glove, ... The E.T.T. is pretty long on the 18" (Medium) at 599.3mm, which is longer than my other "Large" bikes. I'm using a "short" 70mm stem with Open Bars.

    A lot of folks seem to be riding Ogres that are too big for them, in my opinion. The Medium fits like a Large to me.
    I'm 5'11.5" and 32" inseam as per buying pants specs. I also ride a 18" with a 27.2mm setback post, WTB Silverado with the seat clamped right at the middle of the rails, 110 mm 5º stem with butterfly bars, 175mm cranks. That works well for me. I probably could have gone with a large frame, shorter stem and zero setback post, but typically I'm between sizes on Surly's and the longer ETT on this did surprise me. I wouldn't mind riding a large Ogre one day to see if I made the right choice.

    Seat nose to ground is 40". Seat nose to bottom bracket is 28-28.5" for me.

    Fit is a very personal thing - some people like to be more bent over, some people like to be more upright. Some people need to be more upright because of how they're intending to use the bike. In my case, I'm using it for lots of long distance on non-technical roads. I can see someone between sizes like me going either way depending on what they do a lot of.

  15. #15
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    i'm 6' and ride a 19" in most other brands 29ers.....take specialized for example.
    the ett of a 19" spec stumpy 29 is 615mm.....on the 20" ogre it's 616mm....
    i realized that surly measures their bikes to the top of the gusset...not the top of the seat tube, but that's ok with me....top tube length is wat you should be concerned with, not how tall your seat tube is.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny the boy View Post
    i'm 6' and ride a 19" in most other brands 29ers.....take specialized for example.
    the ett of a 19" spec stumpy 29 is 615mm.....on the 20" ogre it's 616mm....
    i realized that surly measures their bikes to the top of the gusset...not the top of the seat tube, but that's ok with me....top tube length is wat you should be concerned with, not how tall your seat tube is.
    Amen!

  17. #17
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    i just compared the ogre geo to the 2013 spec rockhopper 29 geo....
    the rockhopper has a LONGER top tube in the comparable ogre size.....
    so why all this talk about how "large" surly's run....?

    rockhopper:
    15.5" 17.5" 19" 21" 23"
    Top Tube Length (Horizontal) 576mm 603mm 625mm 650mm 670mm

    ogre:
    16" 18" 20" 22" 24"
    Effective Top Tube Length 575.6 599.3 616.3 632.2 648.1

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny the boy View Post
    i'm 6' and ride a 19" in most other brands 29ers.....take specialized for example.
    the ett of a 19" spec stumpy 29 is 615mm.....on the 20" ogre it's 616mm....
    i realized that surly measures their bikes to the top of the gusset...not the top of the seat tube, but that's ok with me....top tube length is wat you should be concerned with, not how tall your seat tube is.
    Yeah but the Stumpy ETT should be shorter than an Ogre. If my Pugsley's ETT was the same as my Bandit 29's, my Pugsley would be wayy too small.
    '15 Specialized Fatboy
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    Yeah but the Stumpy ETT should be shorter than an Ogre. If my Pugsley's ETT was the same as my Bandit 29's, my Pugsley would be wayy too small.

  20. #20
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    Ok, it looks like there isnt really a definitive answer and that either frame could do the job. I've bitten the bullet and ordered a 20 happy in the knowledge that I will need to do what I can to shorten the cockpit. With this in mind I've ordered a straight Thomson post for my saddle and I'll grab the shortest throw stem with an upward throw that I can find.
    I'm hoping that some Jeff Jones alloy bars will add some rearward throw and I'll have to see what I end up with. If I dont like it, I'll suck it up and buy a 18, selling the 20 at what I think wont likely be to big a loss. Any suggestions for a stem? Last time I bought one they had a quill (shows my age). Definitely want one that is as short as possible I think whilst keeping in mind I want my saddle equal or lower than my bars for some comfort (least leaning forward possible riding position with this long ETT).

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by rifraf View Post
    Any suggestions for a stem?
    If you're looking for a short one (31.8 clamp with 8mm rise and 50mm length, and it weighs 506g and comes in anodized red or black.), check out the Dirty Dog Reaper Stem

    Help - need a favor from an Ogre Owner with a camera and a few minutes to spare-932a84ca640d36632fe8d906c2c219e4.jpg

    (Although I personally don't like the overall appearance of the skull and wouldn't use one on my bike) - I prefer "Starlingear" style skulls:

    Name:  starlingear_puncher_ring.jpg
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  22. #22
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    Buy some spacers for the fork tube. They come with a ridiculously long fork neck. The more spacers you use the closer the neck gets to the seat. Also if you desire an upright riding position you will need a bunch of them. I think you will be surprised how well the 20" will fit you. E-bay has all kinds of stems. Personally I don't care who's name is on a stem as long as it works. I to sport a 34inch inseam and my seat has allot of air under it. With that and your desired handlebar height fool around with your stem height before you start lopping off the fork. Mine has 110 stem. An 80 -110 should work for you.

    Just some thoughts.
    Good luck and have fun building!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trilancing View Post
    If you're looking for a short one (31.8 clamp with 8mm rise and 50mm length, and it weighs 506g and comes in anodized red or black.), check out the Dirty Dog Reaper Stem

    (Although I personally don't like the overall appearance of the skull and wouldn't use one on my bike) - I prefer "Starlingear" style skulls:

    If Starlingear made a stem, I'd be all over it - very nice.
    Not so sure about the shape of the first pic ones.
    Thanks for sharing though.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by CBUL View Post
    Buy some spacers for the fork tube. They come with a ridiculously long fork neck. The more spacers you use the closer the neck gets to the seat. Also if you desire an upright riding position you will need a bunch of them. I think you will be surprised how well the 20" will fit you. E-bay has all kinds of stems. Personally I don't care who's name is on a stem as long as it works. I to sport a 34inch inseam and my seat has allot of air under it. With that and your desired handlebar height fool around with your stem height before you start lopping off the fork. Mine has 110 stem. An 80 -110 should work for you.

    Just some thoughts.
    Good luck and have fun building!
    I'll take your advice on the spacers thanks Cbul.

    Just checked the track n trace on the USPS frame and it passed through the sort facility at SC LOS ANGELES CA (International Parcels) on 18th of Feb but no word since. Not sure how often they update their site. Jenson got it away double quick which was nice and their communication was good.

  25. #25
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    At long last

    Help - need a favor from an Ogre Owner with a camera and a few minutes to spare-dsc05636.jpgHelp - need a favor from an Ogre Owner with a camera and a few minutes to spare-dsc05637.jpgWell at long last my frame arrived safely. There was a delay when Aussies postal service couldnt find it of a couple of weeks.

    I like the fact the black frame gets a stainless seatpost clamp and chrome or that might be nickle plated bolts for the water bottle cages. I'll have to get some matching ones for the "warts" on the forks.

    I've plonked my seat at the correct height (approx) to see how much post will be showing. I like this length and it suggests to me that I'd prefer the larger 20" size frame than a smaller size.

  26. #26
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    The black frame! Noice.

    What's the build plan?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by HelmutHerr View Post
    The black frame! Noice.

    What's the build plan?
    G'day Mate, long time no see.
    Build plan...... most parts now bought and paid for but also most in the delivery process from Wiggle, CRC, Bike24 and Starbike.
    Brooks saddle - I have a Ti Swift to try as well as a new B17 Special in black. (Copper plated rails and rivets).
    Thomson Masterpiece post and X4 50mm stem (Black).
    BB7 200mm in front and 160mm in rear with Speed dial 7 levers.
    Polished Alloy Rohloff (16T)and polished alloy Son28, both with silver CX-rays and silver
    Velocity Dyad rims.
    To get me going I've got some 29x2.35 Big Apples.
    Tubus stainless racks - Cosmo and Nova. Thinking about a tiny nitto stainless flat rack to complement the Nova and sit my sleeping roll onto it.
    Thorn polish alloy cranks with black chain ring (38T at mo but getting 34T)
    Ortlieb Back Roller Classics in yellow and black.
    Sram PC870 chain. Edelux headlight and E-work (taken from my Moulton).
    Oh and I've my eyes on some of those Jeff Jones Loop bars too. Yet to make my mind up on fenders but down to plastic cascades or hammered finish honjo's which would be pure eye candy next to my silver wheelset. Probably the plastics though for practicality.
    What have I forgotten?

    How are you getting on with your Ogre? You were running SS(?) when last we spoke.
    What/any upgrades you doing or done? Still enjoying the ride? Theres lots of pics on these pages and some great inspiration. It was actually seeing I think a Karate Monkey in black that got me inspired enough to press the button on mine.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by rifraf View Post
    What have I forgotten?
    The kitchen sink looks like all.

    Is it a tour bike?

    Good to see you too!

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by HelmutHerr View Post
    The kitchen sink looks like all.

    Is it a tour bike?

    Good to see you too!
    Yeah she's an Aussie tour bike for following in the tyreprints of riders like GJ Coop (cycle trails Australia: zzOz blog: zig zag across Oz) and some of the other inspirators in cgoab.com. I've been getting the wanderlust again and enjoyed so much my accross Australia tour from NSW to here in WA that I've decided I want to do some more but including some off the tarmac and beaten trail this time.
    What have you got planned?

  30. #30
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    The Rohloff should serve well. I'm still on the fence about whether to stick that or a Nuvinci on the Ogre.

    Had a bunch of teething problems with it that are only just staring to iron out, so I'm sticking with single speed for this year to dial everything in and bring my fitness up. Then into some touring, I hope.

    Big Apples on the way too. They look meat axe on an Ogre.

  31. #31
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    Glad to hear the probs are getting ironed out for you.
    If you get some spare time, check out that blog by GJ. Gotta warn ya though you'll be up into the wee hours once you start reading as its addictive and inspiring. If you havnt already, also check out crazyguyonabike.com: Bicycle Touring: A place for bicycle tourists and their journals but you'll probably never sleep again untill your off on your own tours and blogging.

    Let me know of any of your teething problems that I should watch out for.
    This is my first ground up bike build. I upgraded the Moulton heaps over the years but not all at once. I thought I just better bite the bullet and do it now whilst I sorta had the funds before some bills came in and wiped out that dream.

  32. #32
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    Hey rifraf,

    glad to hear the frame finally arrived and the size seems right. I was beginning to wonder what was the holdup. Can't wait to see your build!

  33. #33
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    Mostly fit problems for me, so my neck got injured and took a while to recover. The spokes also started unscrewing a couple of weeks in, but stayed put after getting fixed.

    Apart from that, keep in mind that an Ogre gets heavy fast. I've got a rack on now and even with a light load it's a beast. It handles so nicely you don't really notice when you're going, then you lift it over a kerb and it weighs a tonne!

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by HelmutHerr View Post
    Mostly fit problems for me, so my neck got injured and took a while to recover. The spokes also started unscrewing a couple of weeks in, but stayed put after getting fixed.

    Apart from that, keep in mind that an Ogre gets heavy fast. I've got a rack on now and even with a light load it's a beast. It handles so nicely you don't really notice when you're going, then you lift it over a kerb and it weighs a tonne!
    Thats no good - hope your neck gets better quickly.
    I'm hoping all that weight people talk about equates to structural integrity. I'm not planning on getting any air (doing jumps) but I will be touring with a substantial load.
    I've going over the top with my wheel build with the CX-Rays as I want to keep things as light as I can without affecting strength. Its a balancing act but with an IGH I feel I've got to look to save a few grams where I can. I hope the Big Apples at 2.35 add some serious cush or they'll get parted with very quickly and some Schwalbe Supremes replacing them for a big weight saving.

  35. #35
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    Hi Seamonster,
    I havnt forgotton your box pics - about to get onto it shortly.
    Cameras charged up so almost set to go.
    As for the delay........ Drove me madder! Big gap between two parcels sent the same day.
    Never mind, sorted now. Huge drain emotionally but the stress has now been lifted.
    My coming parts for the build have much better tracking so even if delayed, I'll have a picture of where they are in the process. I didnt with the frame.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by rifraf View Post
    Thats no good - hope your neck gets better quickly.
    I'm hoping all that weight people talk about equates to structural integrity. I'm not planning on getting any air (doing jumps) but I will be touring with a substantial load.
    I've going over the top with my wheel build with the CX-Rays as I want to keep things as light as I can without affecting strength.
    Getting the bars up to saddle height on the 24" frame is a challenge, but now I've got riser bars on an adjustable stem which looks absurd but doesn't wreck my neck. Hopefully.

    With the weight, I've got cheap heavy wheels on, so it's not the best example of a weight-conscious touring unit.

    I did 25km through the suburbs today and really appreciated the steel frame. I tried a bunch of aluminium frames before deciding on the Ogre, but alu would be rough over the potholes and rail lines. With the Apples on it should be pretty plush.

  37. #37
    Unhinged Aussie on a 29er
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    Quote Originally Posted by rifraf View Post
    G'day Mate, long time no see.
    Build plan...... most parts now bought and paid for but also most in the delivery process from Wiggle, CRC, Bike24 and Starbike.
    Brooks saddle - I have a Ti Swift to try as well as a new B17 Special in black. (Copper plated rails and rivets).
    Thomson Masterpiece post and X4 50mm stem (Black).
    BB7 200mm in front and 160mm in rear with Speed dial 7 levers.
    Polished Alloy Rohloff (16T)and polished alloy Son28, both with silver CX-rays and silver
    Velocity Dyad rims.
    To get me going I've got some 29x2.35 Big Apples.
    Tubus stainless racks - Cosmo and Nova. Thinking about a tiny nitto stainless flat rack to complement the Nova and sit my sleeping roll onto it.
    Thorn polish alloy cranks with black chain ring (38T at mo but getting 34T)
    Ortlieb Back Roller Classics in yellow and black.
    Sram PC870 chain. Edelux headlight and E-work (taken from my Moulton).
    Oh and I've my eyes on some of those Jeff Jones Loop bars too. Yet to make my mind up on fenders but down to plastic cascades or hammered finish honjo's which would be pure eye candy next to my silver wheelset. Probably the plastics though for practicality.
    What have I forgotten?
    Looks like you pretty much nailed it :P. I have the stuff in bold on mine. I run a 38x16T w/ 175mm cranks (32" inseam), black rohloff as QBP only sells black, ran a slightly narrower Schwalbe BA, now on Marathon Supreme's for no reason other than BA's don't come in a folding version (if space at home were plentiful, I would run BA's). I generally hit the upper end of my speed range on 36T chainrings, and surprisingly Surly doesn't make a 37T... so I went with a 38T instead. On flat ground I end up cruising at around 26-28 km/h. I'd probably run the 36T with 2.35" tires, but I doubt you can really go wrong with a 34T up front, especially for touring. Mine currently has about the same gearing range as a Trek 520 or Surly LHT, which is a tiny little bit high for offroad work.

    I have a Pedalpower+ instead of the E-Work, but it does the same thing. I *love* this setup. I use it on a regular basis when navigating by map on the Edge 800, which absolutely sucks battery like crazy on map view. The only thing I would recommend is have it feed a battery, rather than connect directly to a device, like a 2400 mAh battery pack - smooths out the amperage to the device & gives a better user experience, even if it's a little less efficient. I estimate that during summer, I can roll on this setup for 2-3 days without having to hit mains power at all, charging every one of my electrical devices to full every day. You probably know that you can't really use the EWerk & dyno light at the same time already, so glossing over that...

    What have you forgotten? Well, how about a frame bag? No mention of bottle cages or feed bags. Please, let us help you spend your money!!

    Quote Originally Posted by HelmutHerr View Post
    Mostly fit problems for me, so my neck got injured and took a while to recover. The spokes also started unscrewing a couple of weeks in, but stayed put after getting fixed.

    Apart from that, keep in mind that an Ogre gets heavy fast. I've got a rack on now and even with a light load it's a beast. It handles so nicely you don't really notice when you're going, then you lift it over a kerb and it weighs a tonne!
    Sage advice right there. Mine made it to 38 lbs in practically no time at all, and I have no rack fitted. On the 3x10 stock setup it weighed in at 31 lbs, so with the Rohloff & all the other stuff I added most people are surprised it weighs as little as it does. I mean, the thing is practically a rolling tank. I pulled a muscle in my shoulder lifting it on to a bike rack last week heavy .

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by sea monster View Post
    Hey rifraf,

    glad to hear the frame finally arrived and the size seems right. I was beginning to wonder what was the holdup. Can't wait to see your build!
    Hey Sea Monster, where are you at? Have you got hold of a frame yet?
    Did you find a black one like you thought you wanted?
    Whats the build kit going to be (or already is)?
    Cheers

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by rifraf View Post
    Hey Sea Monster, where are you at? Have you got hold of a frame yet?
    Did you find a black one like you thought you wanted?
    Whats the build kit going to be (or already is)?
    Cheers
    Hello there down under!

    I am sorry I haven't replied to your PM any sooner. I was super busy this week (plus a bad toothache driving me nuts). I just published my Ogre Build Master Plan in the Ogre Build Thread. Let me know your thoughts.

    PS: No longer need the pics, so don't worry about it. Thanks anyway.

    Have a nice day!

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by sea monster View Post
    Hello there down under!

    I am sorry I haven't replied to your PM any sooner. I was super busy this week (plus a bad toothache driving me nuts). I just published my Ogre Build Master Plan in the Ogre Build Thread. Let me know your thoughts.

    PS: No longer need the pics, so don't worry about it. Thanks anyway.

    Have a nice day!
    I understand completely. Sometimes life just gets in the way of things so "no worries".
    I had the same thing happen which is why I was slow getting that email to you.
    I'm going to put a few pics into the Ogre build thread so you can keep up to date from there. If you have any questions just fire away. Your build plan looks great by the way.
    Dont forget to put up some pics as you go along so we know where your at.

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