Help - need a favor from an Ogre Owner with a camera and a few minutes to spare

[rifraf]

I'm trying to size myself for an Ogre frame before I hit the buy button
from Jensonusa or the like.

My current bike has "approx" 89.5cm or 35 inches between the top of the saddle and the spindle of the pedal at the bottom of its stroke (kept in line with the seat tube of the frame).
I'm 5' 11" and my inseam is approx 87.5cm or 34 inches when I do the book between the legs thing and mark against the wall.

(Just had a scare as my landlady is due home and I was having difficulty getting the pen mark off the wall - LOL. Some methylated spirits did the trick in the end and the stress nearly caused me a heart attack).

My thoughts were it might be relevant how much seatpost is standing up out of the frame.
I'd like to see a comparison between an 18 and 20 frame size.
If anyone with either an 18 or 20 inch Ogre and the time to take a pic with your saddletop and pedal spindletop with 35 inches between them it would be a huge help in me deciding which Ogre frame to buy.

I've had different advice and not sure which way to go.
Some people say go 18 as per most guys of my height in the Karate Monkey thread whilst others say go the 20 due to me wanting a touring/bikepacking rig for on and off road long distance touring.
My last mountainbike had a 19 inch seat tube and I always thought I might have liked a tad smaller frame although I also wonder now if the real issue was how long the stem was as I felt too stretched out.
I didnt know then I could have just bought a shorter reach stem.


Can anyone help?

[ianick]

Here is my 20" Ogre with the seat height at 36". I could not get the 410mm seatpost to go down any further.

[johnny the boy]

the top of my brooks is 76cm (29") from the center of my bb.....
20" ogre frame...have since cut 20mm off my steerer tube....
imo, the bike looks more balanced with this amount of seatpost...it might look out of proportion with another 2" of seatpost showing.

[XJaredX]

I can say with little doubt that you should be on a 20" with those measurements, as they are very similar to mine

[sea monster]

The 20" frame has a standover of 32.4" (which leaves you with a plenty of clearance down there), it has a somewhat slacker and longer head tube (than the 18" frame) and a longer wheelbase = all of which you will appreciate when touring, methinks

[johnny the boy]

it has a somewhat slacker and longer head tube (than the 18" frame)

the 20" has a .5° steeper headtube than the 18".

[CBUL]

Go 20" I'm nearly the same size as you. The 20" KM that shares the same geometry as the Ogre fits me nicely.

[rifraf]

I can say with little doubt that you should be on a 20" with those measurements, as they are very similar to mine

What worries me is that my current ride (which I love) has an effective top tube of only 55.5cm. I measured from my quill stem center bolt across to my seatpost middle till level.
I did another measurement from my bottom bracket spindle to the top of my seat
and got 73cm.
I dont enjoy being too stretched out as I tour in a mostly seat same height as handlebar upright position. I'm kinda worried about being too bent over on the 20.
Theres no shops local to me that carry Surly in stock as they all appear to be buy on order for some reason. My current bike is over due for refurbishment and cant carry enough water off road due to having flat rear rack that cant carry panniers. The rear frame tubes are too skinny to support a rear rack like a freeload.

It takes 3 bottle cages but nowhere for my 10 liter Ortlieb water bags.
Its great for on road long distance touring and I haul a two wheeled trailer for water when I do that but the trailer is redundant off road and its off the tarmac where I have my eyes at the moment. Here in Australia it can be many days between towns and water so for me its time for another bike.

[sea monster]

the 20" has a .5° steeper headtube than the 18".

Correct. My bad.

[rifraf]

Hmmmmmmmmm
If I could see a 20 it would be easier. I wonder if I used a short stem of around 50mm instead of the factory fit 110mm and some Jeff Jones bars with would shorten my reach enough to be not so stooped over. Bloomin impossible for me to get my head around it without seeing one I guess.

Thanks to everyone for the contributions so far - much appreciated.

[sea monster]

rifraf,

the difference between the effective top tube + stem length is 36mm (20" vs 18"). If you buy a 7 or 8cm long stem, you will pretty much achieve the same reach length, as you would have on the 18" frame. This is not a very scientific deduction (and whatever top tube measure can your on your current bike may feel very different on a 29er), but it gives you an idea.

[Trilancing]

I guess I'll be the devil's advocate here and totally disagree with everyone else here. I'm 5' 11-3/8" tall with a 33" book-to-crotch measurement. An important thing to note is that these things "run large"

My 18" (Medium) fits me like a glove, but be aware that seat tube is actually 19.5" from center of BB to top of seat clamp. It fits similar to my old Bianchi S.A.S.S. which was labeled at "19.5" and I ride a 20" "Large" RMB Metropolis. Surly sizes these things measuring only to the top of the triangulated seat-tube gusset-tube thing.

The E.T.T. is pretty long on the 18" (Medium) at 599.3mm, which is longer than my other "Large" bikes. I'm using a "short" 70mm stem with Open Bars.

A lot of folks seem to be riding Ogres that are too big for them, in my opinion. The Medium fits like a Large to me.

On the other hand, the angles of the tubes on the 20" look better. It's more of a triangle. The 16" (small) Ogre looks really good as well, because the top tube slant matches the seat-stays, and from the side, it's just a straight line from the head-tube to the rear axle. The 18" falls in between these two "visually appealing" tubing angles, and fails. The way the angles of the 18" tubes come together is the ugliest of the bunch, like a run-of-the-mill "sloping top-tubed" bike, but I'd rather have a bike that fits, than worrying about something no one else in the world would ever notice except me.

[Gritter]

*oopspost*

[hunter006]

I guess I'll be the devil's advocate here and totally disagree with everyone else here. I'm 5' 11-3/8" tall with a 33" book-to-crotch measurement. An important thing to note is that these things "run large"

My 18" (Medium) fits me like a glove, ... The E.T.T. is pretty long on the 18" (Medium) at 599.3mm, which is longer than my other "Large" bikes. I'm using a "short" 70mm stem with Open Bars.

A lot of folks seem to be riding Ogres that are too big for them, in my opinion. The Medium fits like a Large to me.

I'm 5'11.5" and 32" inseam as per buying pants specs. I also ride a 18" with a 27.2mm setback post, WTB Silverado with the seat clamped right at the middle of the rails, 110 mm 5º stem with butterfly bars, 175mm cranks. That works well for me. I probably could have gone with a large frame, shorter stem and zero setback post, but typically I'm between sizes on Surly's and the longer ETT on this did surprise me. I wouldn't mind riding a large Ogre one day to see if I made the right choice.

Seat nose to ground is 40". Seat nose to bottom bracket is 28-28.5" for me.

Fit is a very personal thing - some people like to be more bent over, some people like to be more upright. Some people need to be more upright because of how they're intending to use the bike. In my case, I'm using it for lots of long distance on non-technical roads. I can see someone between sizes like me going either way depending on what they do a lot of.

[johnny the boy]

i'm 6' and ride a 19" in most other brands 29ers.....take specialized for example.
the ett of a 19" spec stumpy 29 is 615mm.....on the 20" ogre it's 616mm....
i realized that surly measures their bikes to the top of the gusset...not the top of the seat tube, but that's ok with me....top tube length is wat you should be concerned with, not how tall your seat tube is.

[CBUL]

i'm 6' and ride a 19" in most other brands 29ers.....take specialized for example.
the ett of a 19" spec stumpy 29 is 615mm.....on the 20" ogre it's 616mm....
i realized that surly measures their bikes to the top of the gusset...not the top of the seat tube, but that's ok with me....top tube length is wat you should be concerned with, not how tall your seat tube is.

Amen!

[johnny the boy]

i just compared the ogre geo to the 2013 spec rockhopper 29 geo....
the rockhopper has a LONGER top tube in the comparable ogre size.....
so why all this talk about how "large" surly's run....?

rockhopper:
15.5" 17.5" 19" 21" 23"
Top Tube Length (Horizontal) 576mm 603mm 625mm 650mm 670mm

ogre:
16" 18" 20" 22" 24"
Effective Top Tube Length 575.6 599.3 616.3 632.2 648.1

[XJaredX]

i'm 6' and ride a 19" in most other brands 29ers.....take specialized for example.
the ett of a 19" spec stumpy 29 is 615mm.....on the 20" ogre it's 616mm....
i realized that surly measures their bikes to the top of the gusset...not the top of the seat tube, but that's ok with me....top tube length is wat you should be concerned with, not how tall your seat tube is.

Yeah but the Stumpy ETT should be shorter than an Ogre. If my Pugsley's ETT was the same as my Bandit 29's, my Pugsley would be wayy too small.

[johnny the boy]

Yeah but the Stumpy ETT should be shorter than an Ogre. If my Pugsley's ETT was the same as my Bandit 29's, my Pugsley would be wayy too small.

[rifraf]

Ok, it looks like there isnt really a definitive answer and that either frame could do the job. I've bitten the bullet and ordered a 20 happy in the knowledge that I will need to do what I can to shorten the cockpit. With this in mind I've ordered a straight Thomson post for my saddle and I'll grab the shortest throw stem with an upward throw that I can find.
I'm hoping that some Jeff Jones alloy bars will add some rearward throw and I'll have to see what I end up with. If I dont like it, I'll suck it up and buy a 18, selling the 20 at what I think wont likely be to big a loss. Any suggestions for a stem? Last time I bought one they had a quill (shows my age). Definitely want one that is as short as possible I think whilst keeping in mind I want my saddle equal or lower than my bars for some comfort (least leaning forward possible riding position with this long ETT).

[Trilancing]

Any suggestions for a stem?

If you're looking for a short one (31.8 clamp with 8mm rise and 50mm length, and it weighs 506g and comes in anodized red or black.), check out the Dirty Dog Reaper Stem



(Although I personally don't like the overall appearance of the skull and wouldn't use one on my bike) - I prefer "Starlingear" style skulls:

[CBUL]

Buy some spacers for the fork tube. They come with a ridiculously long fork neck. The more spacers you use the closer the neck gets to the seat. Also if you desire an upright riding position you will need a bunch of them. I think you will be surprised how well the 20" will fit you. E-bay has all kinds of stems. Personally I don't care who's name is on a stem as long as it works. I to sport a 34inch inseam and my seat has allot of air under it. With that and your desired handlebar height fool around with your stem height before you start lopping off the fork. Mine has 110 stem. An 80 -110 should work for you.

Just some thoughts.
Good luck and have fun building!

[rifraf]

If you're looking for a short one (31.8 clamp with 8mm rise and 50mm length, and it weighs 506g and comes in anodized red or black.), check out the Dirty Dog Reaper Stem

(Although I personally don't like the overall appearance of the skull and wouldn't use one on my bike) - I prefer "Starlingear" style skulls:

If Starlingear made a stem, I'd be all over it - very nice.
Not so sure about the shape of the first pic ones.
Thanks for sharing though.

[rifraf]

Buy some spacers for the fork tube. They come with a ridiculously long fork neck. The more spacers you use the closer the neck gets to the seat. Also if you desire an upright riding position you will need a bunch of them. I think you will be surprised how well the 20" will fit you. E-bay has all kinds of stems. Personally I don't care who's name is on a stem as long as it works. I to sport a 34inch inseam and my seat has allot of air under it. With that and your desired handlebar height fool around with your stem height before you start lopping off the fork. Mine has 110 stem. An 80 -110 should work for you.

Just some thoughts.
Good luck and have fun building!

I'll take your advice on the spacers thanks Cbul.

Just checked the track n trace on the USPS frame and it passed through the sort facility at SC LOS ANGELES CA (International Parcels) on 18th of Feb but no word since. Not sure how often they update their site. Jenson got it away double quick which was nice and their communication was good.

[rifraf]

Well at long last my frame arrived safely. There was a delay when Aussies postal service couldnt find it of a couple of weeks.

I like the fact the black frame gets a stainless seatpost clamp and chrome or that might be nickle plated bolts for the water bottle cages. I'll have to get some matching ones for the "warts" on the forks.

I've plonked my seat at the correct height (approx) to see how much post will be showing. I like this length and it suggests to me that I'd prefer the larger 20" size frame than a smaller size.