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  1. #1351
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    Quote Originally Posted by azer89 View Post
    Nice! You own both Straggler and CC?
    yes indeed...straggle set up as a flat bar ss and the cc as a 1x11...

    my initial impression is the cc is a bit springier a ride so a bit more compliant on the washboard,and the top tube seems shorter to me but im not a numbers person....so similar but different...

    after ironing out a few wrinkles and once again discovering a spare parts build has turned into "just a few hundred" in new parts...had to swap some parts around..took the crankset off my krampus to get it running....i'll be at the bike shop in the morning ordering a new crank i fear....but apart from some minor adjustments it seems like a solid build...

    took her out for a spin on the local singletrack...the parts that qualify as being fun on a cross type bike at least...as noted the frame seemed to mute the harshness of the rocky bits nicely,perhaps at the expense of chainstay flex which had the small block 8 buzzing a bit,and when i really crank away at the pedals i can see the bb deflecting from side to side,in that respect the straggler is far stiffer and rockets away under hard pedaling where the cc seems a bit slower to get up to speed...but im gonna guess over the long haul the cc will be far more comfortable to ride...

    so,it seems ive chosen the right gearing for each bike,once i get the crank and bb squared away i think the stragglecheck frame bag will basically live on the cc,and the straggler can just be a lean,mean,ss machine...

    Cross Check pics please-img_20170326_111042669.jpgCross Check pics please-img_20170326_111743914.jpgCross Check pics please-img_20170326_112718010.jpgCross Check pics please-img_20170326_112733771.jpg

  2. #1352
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    that is about what I expected to hear. I'm still wanting a CC!

  3. #1353
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matterhorn View Post
    that is about what I expected to hear. I'm still wanting a CC!
    Do it. I've had mine and it's such a great versatile bike and not the least bit out of date. I've been going back and forth between upright, flats and drops along with singlespeed vs geared. Easy to put one together with basic parts.

    It's killing me looking at Hamsterspam's perched beside a trail, in the sun and without fenders. I'm so looking forward to rolling around on mine with Knards this summer on mixed terrain rides. Right now it's running fenders because... Portland, where every bike is a rain bike 6 months out of the year...
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

  4. #1354
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    lol,i do have clip on fenders for the 2-3 days a year when i want them!

    if it helps it was windy out today,i meant to get out for 40 miles or so and cut it short...

  5. #1355
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    Very nice build Hamster! I always love your color schemes. I'd considered buying a complete Steamroller or CC as a road compliment to my ICT and Ogre, but with a new-to-me Krampus coming this week, that will have to wait. That is, unless, I find that the Krampus pretty much replaces the Ogre to the point of selling it.
    Surly Ice Cream Truck
    Surly Krampus

  6. #1356
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    im glad theres never any thought of getting rid of bikes to make space here...i am thinking about taking the wheels from my krampus apart to get the red hope pro4's for the cc...since i have overlap on the 29+ size i figure the krampus can stay a ss and the 29+ ict as the geared version in that wheel size...thats the problem with surlys...they can be set up so many ways that are great fun and/or super useful...
    at any rate...all the constant part switching and trying different things out has certainly taught me a bunch about bikes...this one i think i got "right" straight away...

  7. #1357
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamsterspam View Post
    ...thats the problem with surlys...they can be set up so many ways that are great fun and/or super useful...
    Agreed. And no Surly illustrates this point better than the CC.
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

  8. #1358
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    yep,im interested to see how it does with the 8pack rack and wald basket combo and a rear rack with a set of panniers...i know the straggle-check bag for a 64cm frame is crazy big,and should be more than enough space for day adventures and summer weight overnighters with a seat bag...

  9. #1359
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    One thing about the CC, it's easy to get heel strike with panniers in the rear. While the Surly front rack is super over built it's nice that you can run panniers in the lower position on pavement and higher up when you go off road. I could get by for a couple of days easily with just two small Ortlieb panniers.
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

  10. #1360
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    Don't tell H-spam how good the CC is! What we should do is tell him it is inferior to the Straggler in everyday and slowly convince him to sell me that 64cm CC. Sweet bike.


    Given the funds today I still would probably order an SS KM.

  11. #1361
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    so would i! theres still plenty of space in the shop for bikes!

  12. #1362
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfltroll View Post
    One thing about the CC, it's easy to get heel strike with panniers in the rear. While the Surly front rack is super over built it's nice that you can run panniers in the lower position on pavement and higher up when you go off road. I could get by for a couple of days easily with just two small Ortlieb panniers.
    I own a CC with a tubus vega, never have a heel strike, I use clipless and the foot position is at the farthest back.

    maybe some racks give that issue.

  13. #1363
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    Quote Originally Posted by azer89 View Post
    I own a CC with a tubus vega, never have a heel strike, I use clipless and the foot position is at the farthest back.

    maybe some racks give that issue.
    With the Surly rear rack on a 60cm frame and my size 11 feet it was a bit of an issue. Easily fixed, just had to be mindful of placement of the rear pannier.
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

  14. #1364
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    had some time to get everything a bit more dialed in and resolved the crank issues,and got the levers in position and all that sort of stuff...
    and blingle-klaus dropped off a hope bashguard,a knog oi bell,and some red anno valve stem caps..
    debating on tearing down the rabbit hole rims from the krampus to get the set of red hope pro4 hubs on this bike...admittedly because i miss the obnoxious loud hub noise...and it would look hella sick and give me a good excuse to get a set of I9 hubs for the krampus to build a lighter wheelset for it...


    #krispycheck
    #fattiesfitfine!
    Cross Check pics please-krispycross.jpg

  15. #1365
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    first long-ish ride today...1/2 pavement,1/2 river levee...all fun...really comfy bike...

    Cross Check pics please-img_20170403_103325483_hdr.jpgCross Check pics please-img_20170403_104801964.jpgCross Check pics please-img_20170403_112410453_hdr.jpgCross Check pics please-img_20170403_114716318.jpgCross Check pics please-img_20170403_124534408.jpg

  16. #1366
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    Cross Check pics please-img_1058.jpgHere's one more of my newly-geared CC, last week in Zion Nat'l Park. Having only ridden singlespeeds for the last several years, I am now TOTALLY loving the 1x11 setup.

  17. #1367
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    @hampsterspam Your CC looks great. I like that you're rolling with flat pedals. My CC is the last bike in my quiver sporting SPDs. I'm not anti but I'm just not into riding in bibs and stuff currently and really not too thrilled about SPDs. I love rolling in my Sambas as they feel so much better when I step off the bike. Still... I can't help but think "I need to have one bike with SPDs, right?" Cycling peer pressure can be rough...

    @jbass So I'm all fired up and happy with my drop bar CC and then you post this picture and now I'm thinking of going back to flat bars. To go with the flat pedals... I'm curious, what bars and brakes are you running?
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

  18. #1368
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfltroll View Post
    @hampsterspam Your CC looks great. I like that you're rolling with flat pedals. My CC is the last bike in my quiver sporting SPDs. I'm not anti but I'm just not into riding in bibs and stuff currently and really not too thrilled about SPDs. I love rolling in my Sambas as they feel so much better when I step off the bike. Still... I can't help but think "I need to have one bike with SPDs, right?" Cycling peer pressure can be rough...

    @jbass So I'm all fired up and happy with my drop bar CC and then you post this picture and now I'm thinking of going back to flat bars. To go with the flat pedals... I'm curious, what bars and brakes are you running?
    I wish I could try some kinda off road drops on my CC, but it just wouldn't fit me right, so I'm sticking with flats. Those are Origin8 Pro Torq Space OffRoad bars: Product Description | Origin8
    I wanted an "alt" bar but not as much of an extreme angle in the backsweep(as say a Jones, or an FSA Metropolis which I also tried) while still bringing my hands back a bit and these nailed it for me. Plus they're inexpensive Brakes are the SD-5s that came on the bike stock.

  19. #1369
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfltroll View Post
    @hampsterspam Your CC looks great. I like that you're rolling with flat pedals. My CC is the last bike in my quiver sporting SPDs. I'm not anti but I'm just not into riding in bibs and stuff currently and really not too thrilled about SPDs. I love rolling in my Sambas as they feel so much better when I step off the bike. Still... I can't help but think "I need to have one bike with SPDs, right?" Cycling peer pressure can be rough...

    @jbass So I'm all fired up and happy with my drop bar CC and then you post this picture and now I'm thinking of going back to flat bars. To go with the flat pedals... I'm curious, what bars and brakes are you running?
    i dont think i will ever go back to clipping in at this point,once i figured out how to bunny hop of flats it was pretty much the death knell for clipping in..

    thanks,i think i pretty much nailed this build first go-around,the only thing i might do is swap some red hope pro4's onto the wheels..

    Quote Originally Posted by jbass View Post
    I wish I could try some kinda off road drops on my CC, but it just wouldn't fit me right, so I'm sticking with flats. Those are Origin8 Pro Torq Space OffRoad bars: Product Description | Origin8
    I wanted an "alt" bar but not as much of an extreme angle in the backsweep(as say a Jones, or an FSA Metropolis which I also tried) while still bringing my hands back a bit and these nailed it for me. Plus they're inexpensive Brakes are the SD-5s that came on the bike stock.
    the salsa woodchippers are working good for me,and im not a huge fan of drop bars...
    the 1x11 is working great for me too,nice to have the range for singletrack...

  20. #1370
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    Hampsterspam, you running Race Face Chesters? You still like them? I've been running VPs for a few years now on my LHT and BD. They're great--thin and wide.

    The fit on my CC is great but I think later this year I'll replace the fork with one with rack braze-ons and leave room for another 1cm spacer, that way I could get the bars up higer which is nice for off-road. Might also switch to Gevenalle shifters and Paul Mini Motos. While I like my Paul cantis, I really wish I had just gone for it and gotten the motos. At the time I had planned on using my CC as a winter road bike but that never really materialized. After years of randonneuring in the PNW I realize that I'm done with riding in the rain. Kinda through with road riding too unless it's on dirt or in the forest.

    Oh, and there'll definitely be some WTB tires in my future. Trying to decide between Nanos and Riddlers (45s). I might even have to go pick those up today...
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

  21. #1371
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    the cc has spank spike pedals but im running chesters on the ICT and KM and in general i like the chesters a bit better but the spanks really grab the shoes well..

    im running kenda small block8's 1.9s front and rear with no fit issues with the rear wheel all the way back in the drops...the nanos and riddler are both fine tires,if the 8's hadnt fit i would have gone with riddlers and may end up with riddlers on the straggler although the nanos are doing fine so not in any rush to switch...
    thats funny,i started road riding again for a break from trail riding although most of my "road" rides include some dirt/gravel..
    i really like the SRAM stuff and the whole brifter dealy,the drivetrain is pretty sweet for the purposes i intended for this build although i may grab a wolf tooth 28 tooth oval for a kick down option for hillier rides...

  22. #1372
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    In progress....the new travel touring bike.

    <4 weeks to get it dialed before heading to France for a tour of the Loire with a sommelier friend of mine.

    MTB drivetrain and cockpit on a cross frame cause why the **** not. 2x10, 660mm H-Bars, Avid SD7 v's and levers, DTSwiss 350s laced to Velocity Dyads, Pasela 38s.


    Last edited by jmeb; 04-09-2017 at 08:43 PM.

  23. #1373
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    Here you go Hamsterspam...

    thanks,i think i pretty much nailed this build first go-around,the only thing i might do is swap some red hope pro4's onto the wheels..


    Hi mate recently had a new set of wheels built for my CC with hope hubs, very nice.

    Cross Check pics please-dsc03160.jpg

    Cross Check pics please-dsc03154.jpg

    Cross Check pics please-dsc03165.jpg

    Just received the bike back after a brake set change. The Avid did not play well with the rims at all, squeals could be heard for miles around.

    Changed to some Shimano XT V-brakes and not only are they silent the stopping power puts most Disc brakes to shame.

    Will post some photos later.

  24. #1374
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    nice check!

  25. #1375
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    C.C new brakes...

    Thanks mate, the CC came up well after its mid life rebuild.

    Cross Check pics please-img_1452.jpg

    As I mentioned I had a new set of wheels built to complete the CC,s make over.

    Unfortunately the new rims did not play well with the Avid Shorty Ultimates that I have run for a few years.

    I was happy with the stopping power of the Avid's until yesterday when I had my first ride with the Shimano XT V brakes. These things are insane, so much stopping power that will put many disc setups to shame.

    Cross Check pics please-dsc03644-2.jpg

    Cross Check pics please-dsc03648.jpg

    Not the most beautiful looking parts but the function is killer. Turns out to be one of the better changes I made to the bike.

  26. #1376
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    Is that a GoPro mount on the axle?

  27. #1377
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chippertheripper View Post
    Is that a GoPro mount on the axle?
    Hi mate, it could be but I mount my light down there. No space on the bar with the bag mounted.

    Its a M-BOT-A lamp peg from a company called Mr Control.

    They must have been taking it easy the day they came up with M-BOT-A

    Works a treat though, having the light down low really picks up changes to the road surface. And makes the most of the light.

  28. #1378
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    Inaugural commute. 25 days to its first credit-card tour.


    Cross Check pics please-pgaufkd.jpg

  29. #1379
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    problem solvers makes the same thing here in the states...also the paul components gino light mount..

    tossed a rack on the rear of mine to give it a try with some panniers although with the ridiculous amount of storage offered by the stragglecheck bag on a 64cm frame has proven to be gloriously excessive...its crazy looking at the straggler and cross check next to one of the mountain bikes...theres so much space in the main triangle,even the framebag for an xxl ICT seems like an accessory pocket in comparison to the stragglecheck bag...

  30. #1380
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    on a recent outing for puppy pads and a 40oz

    Cross Check pics please-cyclesmaller.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Cross Check pics please-cross.jpg  


  31. #1381
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    Cross Check pics please-img_20170413_113513796_hdr.jpgCross Check pics please-img_20170413_114258810.jpg

  32. #1382
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    Fitted a front rack:


    Wrapped some bars:


    And hung the bags:


    t-3 weeks til it flys to France for a week.

  33. #1383
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    Hi mate, not sure if its just my end but I don't see the photos.

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    Hi Hamster and Nicholas, I see you are both running flats, how do you find them?

    I ask as I have been playing around with my cleat position, and the last few rides on the Cross Check has caused me some knee pain.

    I took my Mountain bike out for a spin yesterday to try out flats over the same distance and had no pain. Managed to spin behind some roadies without my feet flying off the pedals, so I thinking of switching to flats on the CC as well.

    Any thought on the change and how do you find your setup?

  35. #1385
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    CC with flats.

    Quote Originally Posted by Surly in OZ View Post
    Hi Hamster and Nicholas, I see you are both running flats, how do you find them?

    I ask as I have been playing around with my cleat position, and the last few rides on the Cross Check has caused me some knee pain.
    I've been riding flats on my LHT for years and love them. Hamsterspam's post got me thinking that I should throw them on my CC in it's current form (1x9, drops). Yesterday I did and I love them. They're easy to deal with and I actually prefer my Adidas Sambas to my Sidis. It's funny though, there's a fair amount of cycling programming in me that tells me I need to have one bike with SPDs on it... I think I'm going to ignore that voice for a while.

    These are the pedals I use:

    https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=38284
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

  36. #1386
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    i have flats on all six bikes,,but i too used to think at least the road bike i should be clipped in...right up until i started riding drop bar bikes off road...but i really suck at unclipping quickly and got tired of falling over because i couldnt get out of the pedal...at this point i see absolutely no reason to go back,once i got my pedaling technique down i didnt notice any loss of efficiency over spd's,and once i learned how to bunny hop on flats it was pretty much over for clipping in...

    plus,i dont have a car,its way easier to just hop on a bike without needing special shoes and then clomping around stores in cleats...

  37. #1387
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    Yup, all good points. I really need to learn how to bunnyhop with flats.

    As much as I like my CC with drops and think I should have one sort of go fast(ish) bike in the quiver, I really want to put a flat bar back on my CC. Back and forth I go. Really the solution is to have 3 CC--a singlespeed, a flat bar geared and a drop bar geared. Am I right?
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

  38. #1388
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfltroll View Post
    Yup, all good points. I really need to learn how to bunnyhop with flats.

    As much as I like my CC with drops and think I should have one sort of go fast(ish) bike in the quiver, I really want to put a flat bar back on my CC. Back and forth I go. Really the solution is to have 3 CC--a singlespeed, a flat bar geared and a drop bar geared. Am I right?
    clearly its the only sane thing to do!

    i dunno,for me at least i think i pretty well nailed this build for what i intended so unlike my other surly's i can see this form sticking...and owning both a straggler and cross check in my opinion the straggler makes a better go fast bike...that said,the cross check just devours the road be it paved or dirt so it also goes fast quite well,its a more compliant ride overall so easier to keep speed in the choppy bits,and that describes most of the pavement around here too...

    but me,i would pick multiple karate monkey frames if i could find another frame the same vintage as mine...

    that would be first at any rate! i would own another straggler,ogre,and krampus if i could!

  39. #1389
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamsterspam View Post
    i have flats on all six bikes,,but i too used to think at least the road bike i should be clipped in...right up until i started riding drop bar bikes off road...but i really suck at unclipping quickly and got tired of falling over because i couldnt get out of the pedal...at this point i see absolutely no reason to go back,once i got my pedaling technique down i didnt notice any loss of efficiency over spd's,and once i learned how to bunny hop on flats it was pretty much over for clipping in...

    plus,i dont have a car,its way easier to just hop on a bike without needing special shoes and then clomping around stores in cleats...
    Thanks mate, I read this on my way out the door to work this morning. Spent the day thinking about some new flats, I really like the Crank Bros Stamps in large that I have on my fat bike. Then I remembered that they come in a nifty red colour that might play nice with my Hope Hubs and CK headset on the CC.

    It was then that I realised that your picking of parts and colours for your bikes had somehow infected my thinking.

    Truly the internet can be a place for dangerous ideas

    If I do not respond to these pages for awhile its because I am off looking for some Red anodised nipples

  40. #1390
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    i was conceived while my parents were watching mtv's "pimp my ride"...its a genetic condition!

  41. #1391
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    Day out in the sun...

    Hi everyone, had a great ride in perfect weather today. Trying out the CC's new frame bag, its a Specilaized Burra Burra Framepack 8 and its a nice fit on my CC.

    Cross Check pics please-dsc08561.jpg

    The ride to the beach was along on of the local rail trails.

    Cross Check pics please-dsc08559.jpg

    A great way to avoid the crazies on the roads.

    Cross Check pics please-dsc08560.jpg

    Bag was great, helped an old fellow fix his bike and the Sun was warm and the breeze cool. A perfect day out...

  42. #1392
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surly in OZ View Post
    Hi Hamster and Nicholas, I see you are both running flats, how do you find them?

    Any thought on the change and how do you find your setup?
    I've always ran flats on my cross/touring rig bc I feel more comfortable riding trails and mixed terrain with the flats. I've been riding Race Face Chesters and they are extremely grippy so they feel really secure.

    Cross Check pics please-chester-pedal-gallery-1.jpg

  43. #1393
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    Thanks Nicolas, I brought a pair of Crank bros Stamps over the weekend, just need to change them onto CC.

  44. #1394
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    got out for a nice ride on the crosscheck today...
    im a few hundred miles in with the cc,really liking this bike,havent felt any strong urge to swap anything around so far,i am going to go ahead and take the hope pro4's off the old krampus wheels and get another set of alex adventurer rims and get a set of wtb riddlers as the kendas do rub a tiny bit...
    the 1x11 with the 36 tooth oval up front seems just right...the 36x42 gear while not often needed sure makes the climbs super easy,and plenty of top end speed...this bike eats up the dirt roads like crazy,seems to be a smoother ride than the straggler in that regard...

    and i continue to be impressed by the sheer volume of the stragglecheck frame bag for a 64cm frame...3lbs of oranges,1 lb of grapes,1lb of coffee,some canned milk,a thing of porkchops,some dried fruit,a box of cookies and a couple other things along with the tool kit,spare stans and lube,a pump and ulock all crammed in!

    Cross Check pics please-img_20170426_111322684_hdr.jpg

  45. #1395
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    Hi Hamster that bag looks like it could carry the kitchen sink. Had it out on a windy day yet? Might move you around a bit.

    What size riddlers are you looking at? I have my old wheelset sitting in the corner and I am thinking of trying some fat treaded tyres. Ran some Maxxis slick 42 awhile ago and liked the soft ride.

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    it was fairly windy yesterday and since i basically rode a big box around town i was in a cross wind about 50% of the time and yes,it is basically a big sail but not really a problem on the cc as it seems to be a fairly stable bike...

    i would get the 700x45c riddlers,i had one on the straggler and liked it a lot...i might have to reconsider rim choice since the alex rims will set up ghetto tubeless but the last tires i had on them tubeless when they deflated they just fell right off the rim which i found a bit scary...i like the kendas for the riding i do on this bike but with heavy duty inner tubes and liners in the tires the wheels are pretty heavy...and i hate riding with tubes in the desert,just too many spiny things waiting to poke through...at least with tubeless its generally as simple as putting a plug in...

    so yeah,the riddlers...good tire,supple enough to smooth the ride out,great sand traction and nice and fast rolling,great on singletrack...only bad thing is i wore a big flat spot locking the rear end up to avoid a dumbass in a car but i guess you cant blame the tire for that...

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    WTB used to have a tubeless rim brake rim but it appears to be discontinued. I have Mavic A319s on my CC and have wondered how easily they'll set-up tubeless.

    I continue to give serious thought to going back to a flat bar on my CC. Then again, I just sold a bike and so have given some less serious thought to just getting a second CC frame... thankfully I've been side-tracked by the act of running, something I've never done before. I find myself quite intrigued by trail running since I have way easier access to running trails than bike trails and it's so much more efficient than running. Hopefully this running nonsense is a delusional in nature as a result of so many god damned days of rain here in Portland...
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

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    i just dont get along well with the ground anymore,the thought of running for any extended period of time makes my knees hurt...and feet...and lower back...

    pretty funny how easy it is to hike a section of trail over trying to ride a bike up the same stretch sometimes...


    i think about flat bars for the straggler,but then i remember that the places i want flat bars on to ride in i also want bigger tires so im happy to have road stuff on what are mainly road bikes....that said,its fun to run flat bars since its easier to bunny hop for me...

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    Quote Originally Posted by hamsterspam View Post
    i just dont get along well with the ground anymore,the thought of running for any extended period of time makes my knees hurt...and feet...and lower back...

    pretty funny how easy it is to hike a section of trail over trying to ride a bike up the same stretch sometimes...


    i think about flat bars for the straggler,but then i remember that the places i want flat bars on to ride in i also want bigger tires so im happy to have road stuff on what are mainly road bikes....that said,its fun to run flat bars since its easier to bunny hop for me...
    We'll see what happens with the running. So far it's good. Just being able to run for 45 minutes seems like a good thing. For now I'm entertaining ideas of working towards some kind of 25k trail event. One thing I learned from years of randonneuring is that, for better or worse, I have a certain capacity for suffering...

    As for flat bars on the CC, sometimes being underbiked is fun. I think the flats even have their place for gravel riding.

    Earlier this year I had been close to pulling the trigger on a new mtn bike frame, a Wed or Pugs but then realized that it just wouldn't see enough action to justify it given my schedule, responsibilities and fact that on many of the days when I can go mountain biking, I choose to just go ramble around the back roads, paved and dirt, of the Mt Hood NF. My LHT and CC are perfect for that.
    All good expeditions should be simple in concept, difficult in their execution and satisfying to remember--Alastair Humphreys

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    yup,cc's are good rambling bikes,and nothing like a little drop bar singletrack to spice the same old trails up,it adds a whole new dimension to things..its really just too bad they allow cars on the roads,it would sure be more relaxing to not worry about the idiots...so very nice to have a bike that doesnt mind the dirtier side of things yet still rides like a road bike...

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